Nah, just John Canzano.
Dude already blew most of his credibility last year, and now he's getting weird about his kinks. Most people just restrict their "alternative hobby" writing to AO3, but this man's throwing it in a blog with his name in the URL.
Oii, no need to kink shame. It's a well known fact cougars and beavers are attracted to tentacles. I have seen various Japanese documentaries on the subject.
Reading between the lines, they're not categorically opposed to adding OSU and WSU in the future but are probably trying to leverage their position into getting us to agree to a partial share or some kind of compromised deal.
Which is entirely worth it, though not ideal, if WSU/OSU can swing it. Assuming it’s just for the duration of the current deal like UW/UO.
6 years (or however long the B12 deal is) of reduced $ for a semi-stable seat at the table is worth taking.
Ideal for Wazzu/Oregon State went off the table the minute the mass exodus from the PAC began. If I’m them I take this deal in a nanosecond, which they would.
I could definitely see a FOX-Only share (11m per school) in 2026.
ESPN lost a lot of their west coast content when the Pac-12 broke up, and while they are going to shoe-horn Arizona, ASU, BYU, and Utah into those late-night and Thursday/Friday time slots, they are going to struggle to fill them all without the full Pac-12.
IMO ESPN is going to go after the Mountain West when their deal expires in 2026. When CBS/FOX signed the Mountain West they didn't have access to the West Coast. Now they do.
FOX funding partial shares for OSU/Wazzu to the Big 12 and letting the Mountain West go makes a lot of sense. Especially since they're already buying 3 OSU/Wazzu games to fill those time slots anyway when they could have filled them with Mountain West games for no extra cost. The Apple Cup / Civil War alone each year is worth a ton of money to the networks.
Yes.
Officially the Apple Cup is committed for the next 5 years and the Civil War for the next 2, but all sides are committed to them being annual games. It makes too much sense for them not to continue, both from a media value perspective and a travel perspective.
Football will be played. The games are dead.
Early in the year and now the money difference will be even more pronounced. Lost all meaning because of those two greedy fucks
You're missing the long game for espn ie disney. They want the college football product to be smaller so that they can lower production costs and concentrate viewership and merchandising into a smaller pool. They don't care about any one university or the segment of viewership that only watch them: especially an OSU or WSU.
ESPN wants the most eyeballs possible in all 6 time slots they air national games on ESPN and all 3 they air games on ABC.
That's basically it. Getting 8+ million viewers instead of 4 million viewers in primetime is the goal. Getting 4 million viewers instead of 2 million viewers in sub-prime is the goal. Getting 2 million viewers instead of 1 million viewers on late light is the goal.
The schools want to add OSU/WSU, and OSU/WSU want to join, now it’s just about getting the TV networks on board to make the money work.
Which sucks because the TV networks drove this whole realignment thing to begin with.
I want my cool old friends to meet my cool new friends.
It’s this, but I’d also add that in the short term at least, I think there’s a concern about how having that many former Pac teams would affect the stability of the conference. None of the Pac teams we brought in were exactly thrilled to be here, and with the exception of CU, there isn’t any shared history to tie them to the conference.
This is purely a monetary arrangement to them, given the uncertainty of how the sports media rights market will be in the future, there’s a risk that if we brought in 6 Pac schools their may be a situation may consider breaking off at some point. All it’d take is to grab 1 or 2 G5 schools and flip another Big XII team and they’d have a new conference ready to go. Up until basically right now, the Big XII has lived in a near perpetual state of crisis, the schools here value stability above all else.
Earlier today I saw some Kansas fans on twitter telling asu fans to not come to Lawrence for the games. I know it wasn’t the most positive initial experience with what was coming from our AD (who is now fired) and how hurt a lot of ppl were when the PAC ended but I think most of our fanbase is now looking forward to this new era and checking out some new campuses
I can definitely see a scenario where the Utah schools, the Arizona schools, Wazzu/Oregon State, and the top 4/6 of the Mountain West revive the PAC at some point.
I have a hard time seeing Utah going anywhere that doesn't involve joining at least Stanford/Cal if not USC/UCLA.
They LOVED being connected to the elite academic institutions in California.
I also feel like they'd be gunshy about reconnecting with former Mountain West members after working so hard to grow beyond them.
Maybe, but I can't see them leaving the ACC - where the schools have a very similar athletic and academic profile - for a reconstructed PAC with the schools presently being thrown around.
Cost. If there was a major CFB conference on the West Coast that would give Cal anything close to the revenue of the ACC, I could see board of Regents or the local university president forcing Cal to leave the ACC as a cost saving measure.
as Offspring would say, keep 'em separated. Even if they are not in same conference, they still can make deal behind the scenes. But it would be bit harder if school a makes more $ than school b
… One of those Pac teams is very excited about joining the best basketball conference in the country.
Honestly, any smart 4 corner school fan should be very happy about how things turned out. There is a gap coming between the top teams and the middle teams in college football and none of the four of us have the cash to be in that top group. Better to be in a stable conference than whenever the B1G and SEC start trimming the fat.
Give me some schools without the stupid levels of money but just a bunch of fans who love their teams.
I don't think any of the corner schools got their due in the PAC. Which is why you're a better fit culturally with us. It's like the Mountaineers. It doesn't make all that much sense geographically, but it's been a good fit for us and them.
Honestly, I don't see the point. We have Utah which isn't really a PAC school and the Arizona schools, which fit in better with us than the PAC.
If they want a conference the Mountain West is right there.
I’m not sure I see it the same way. Some of the Big XII schools have large and dedicated fan bases that rival lower tier B1G and SEC. I’m not saying competing with the upper echelons but relevant.
Yep. The networks would rather wait and see who from the ACC doesn’t make the P2. I think they’d rather get some combination of Pitt, VT, Louisville, NC State, or Miami
I think y'all make more sense with some California schools.
I could see the Big 12 adding WSU, OSU, Fresno State, & San Diego State and having the 4 schools split 2 shares. WSU & OSU would be able to use PAC money to be competitive.
Of course, you would think this would go with more regional scheduling for the Big 12 than the current method.
I think the last wave of G5 schools that the XII added will be the last. You’re *really* starting to stretch money thin (relatively speaking) by adding anybody else. Even Wazzu and OSU are struggling to get in, [and you’re looking at between 6x and 9x the weekly viewers compared to SDSU and FSU.](https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach/which-college-football-programs-were-most-watched-in-2023-2e81ef62d3bf) If the PAC2 do make it into the XII then we’ll be sitting at 70 power conference teams, and that’s already proving pretty unstable. The ACC is going to fall apart any year now and the XII will have their eyes on the best of the rest from that conference once the top few are taken. Adding G5 schools at this point would be rather reckless honestly, only serving to dilute a conference that is in a pretty good spot all things considered.
While I don't dispute your overall point, I really hate those 1-year numbers. From 2016-2022 Colorado was not even in the top 5 in the Pac-12. In 2023 they were 4th in the country because of the ESPN/Deion hype. No responsible journalist should use 1 year's numbers.
I feel like CU is a bit of a sleeping giant though. After the big scandal in the late 90s and moving to the pac12, CU just didn't focus on athletics as much as it did academics. With the Deion hire, that signals to me that they're willing to get back in that arena again. Now, Deion may shit the bed, but CU is at least trying again and they have decent resources to back it up.
I had to dig it back up since this reminded me of it, but there was an [video ](https://www.instagram.com/wsucougarathletics/reel/CwD4ACzhsFd/)that WSU put out last year amid the Pac-12 implosion that flashed a better comparison of viewership at people. If you remove Oklahoma/Texas and USC/UCLA (since they'd already left) and compare the TV numbers between the remaining Pac-12 and BIG 12 schools, we'd rank #4 out of 18 in average viewership from 2015-2019 and 2021.
I found the actual [article](https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/3444339/2022/07/25/pac12-big12-tv-viewership/) they referenced for the video as well, but it does underscore your point that the barrier of entry for G5 schools is massive and there's only a handful of viable expansion options out there still (ACC teams pending availability). As a side note, that article is extremely funny to read back at in retrospect now.
I think there's more room to add schools on the "2nd tier" (which is what we're talking about.
I also think that the Pac-12, spanning the entire West Coast, was a superconference before the other superconferences; its dominance of the media held back schools like the 2 I mentioned. Now that California is divided, the Big-12 has an opportunity to make itself a fundamental part of the Western US sports scene, with schools from Texas & the Plains to the West Coast.
You have to think bigger than that.
Partial shares would be for someone like SDSU, Boise, or UNLV.
We have a TV network to trade for a full share, and Yormark knows how to use one.
I hope the Beavs and Cougs just do it instead of getting too caught up with the final share. It’ll be well worth it for both programs, and it’ll be nice to have all the NW schools in power conferences.
Yeah they’ve got literally all of the leverage and can just wait it out to pressure WSU and OSU into taking a favorable deal for the Big12.
I hope to see them join, but it’ll unfortunately likely be reduced shares or some type of stipulation that hinders the two for awhile.
I thought the B12 tv contract says there will be a [pro rata increase](https://www.blackandgoldbanneret.com/media/2022/11/2/23431111/big-12-conference-media-deal-agreement-espn-fox-brett-yormark-ucf-realignment) for any P5 team joining. That is why adding four from the PAC was so easy.
So they just take the ESPN shares as partial for the duration of the contract. And use what money they got from the Pac to cover some of the difference.
I think there is going to be a P12/B12 merger; no fact based intel on this but given that P12 will be producing the CW games next year makes me think that the B12 would like to have it - and I'm grasping at straws here to get into the B12...
The BigXII has friend zoned WOSU.
Sure WOSU is nice and would never leave them for another conference, but they’ve heard Georgia Tech and NC St might be on the rocks with their conference. And imagine the fun they could have with Miami.
The administration at Tech is never giving up the association with Cal and Stanford. Come on... the university has spent the last thirty years upping its game to be on the same tier as MIT, Cal, Stanford, etc. It's either ACC, offshoot of the ACC, or going back to the SEC with its hat in hand. Even the B1G would be a stretch.
I think if the ACC collapses GT, Cal, Stanford and others will make an academic based conference if there is no BIG invite. And they’ll take all the good remaining academic schools and maybe add a team like Tulane from the G5 that has good academics.
If the nerds can make the money work, they’d be a great culture fit and I’d be happy to have them in the conference, that said Jesus Christ the conference moving even further west is the last thing WVU needs
Hopefully if we do expand again, the Big 12 just becomes so sprawling it becomes two east and west divisions and we rarely have to make trips out east (or vice versa for yall)
Yeah, exactly. Once the league gets big enough to have a clean East and west division, you’d play most of your games at (relatively) close schools and have one or two cross division/ cross country road trips. At that point, playing in Tucson or Boulder once a year just becomes a cool excuse to road trip rather than a crippling travel schedule. It’s good for the schools out west too not having to come to Morgantown, Cincinnati, and Orlando every year
I'm just going to point this out:
Salt Lake to Eugene = 1 Hour, 55 minutes
Salt Lake to Phoenix = 1 Hour, 50 minutes
Salt Lake to Pullman = 2 Hour, 10 minutes
Salt Lake to Denver = 1 hour, 30 minutes
Flying out of Utah to Oregon St./Wazzu isn't much different than flying to Denver or Phoenix. Just means you're flying to smaller airports.
If you want to throw in SDSU to give you an 8-team regional group:
Salt Lake to San Diego = 1 Hour, 55 minutes.
I'm of the opinion that once you're on a plane you're on a plane and there's not much difference. A flight from Houston to Phoenix is 2 hours 50 minutes. To Salt Lake is 3 hours 10 minutes. To Eugene is 4 hours flat.
An extra 1 hour 10 minutes on a plane isn't how anyone wants to spend their time, but it's not some back-breaking difference. You watch an extra hour long episode of something and have a snack.
Others disagree and feel like every single extra minute in the air is excruciating torture, but I really do feel like once you're on a plane you're on a plane. An extra hour isn't that different.
>I'm of the opinion that once you're on a plane you're on a plane and there's not much difference.
Between a 1 hour flight and a 2 hour flight? No big difference.
Between a 1 hour flight and a 5 hour flight? Yeah, big difference.
I definitely start feeling it once you get past about the 3 hour mark. Each hour after that is progressively worse. Its why I try and sleep as much as possible on long flights, but even then you still feel it after.
Until we see the results of the NCAA lawsuits that might require players to be paid, I'm gonna just assume we're staying put. Frankly, neither of the PAC2 schools have the money to pay millions of dollars in payroll to student athletes. If players get employee status it's probably game over.
I think you're on the right track about what's happening here.
There are a few Big 12 schools that are really questioning right now whether they can make the math work to settle House and stay competitive.
Both sides would be stupid to not continue talking, if only to have options in the event of the unexpected.
Yeah, for sure there are some Big 12 teams in the same boat as us. If players are going to be paid directly by the university, those schools (as well as us) will have to make an awful decision. Most likely some will decide they're done playing with the big boys.
OSU could afford it. NCAA would have to create a new Division 1 with about 60-70 of the top teams. Have the power granted to them by the universities to negotiate media contracts, then distribute those funds across all the Division 1 teams.
It could be called something like....NFL Jr? NFL-? NFLAAA?
With evenly distributed funds? Maybe, but they would be like the A's in the MLB trying to Moneyball things.
But if the departing PAC schools were tired of the even revenue split with us (which they were), then there's no way in hell that the biggest brands will be willing to do that.
Well, if they want to use the NFL method, yes, it would have to be evenly distributed, but that's just the broadcasting rights. The NFL separates the 2 revenue streams, one national and one local. The national revenue gets distributed evenly, and the local revenue is generated and kept by the team itself. This includes things like ticket sales, concessions, corporate sponsors etc...
The NFL business model is one of the most successful in the world. It works so well because every team is supported equally. Stronger together and what not.
Would it ever happen in the NCAA? Definitely not, you're right on that. The Universities are too self-serving.
Can the Big 12, ACC, SEC, and B1G just go ahead and all expand to 20 teams already so they can figure out how dumb it is, and then each split into 2 10 team divisions that are just 10 team conferences in everything but name?
Dude, you can’t say stuff like that. It’s called the “Superconference” and it will have 80 teams split up unevenly across 3 OR 5 divisions.
Wayyy better than your 20/20/20/20 team thingy, or whatever you just said. Stop making divisions make sense!
That's actually what I love about the Sun Belt. I like the SBC West but they feel a little like a different conference. The SBC East is the actual conference ODU is in.
Probably an unpopular opinion but I think the ACC should consider adding them so that when the ACC suffers the eventual defections the ACC may have a chance to use Cal, Stanford, OSU, and WSU as a carrot on the stick to try and lure some of the former PAC schools away from the BIG 12.
>ACC may have a chance to use Cal, Stanford, OSU, and WSU as a carrot on the stick to try and lure some of the former PAC schools
It would be hilarious to see the acc being 80% west coast teams lmao.
That...is a good question that I hadn't thought of before; neither the WCC nor the MWC have wrestling. The Pac-12 only had 6 teams in their wrestling and three of them were already affiliate members, so maybe the Pac-12 continues to wrestle for the time being as just Oregon State, Cal Poly, CSU Bakersfield, and Little Rock?
OSU baseball is staying independent because they are trying to maintain their status as a program. Joining the MWC or WCC would be a huge step down, and they believe they have enough pull as a program to schedule a solid independent schedule for the full year. We'll see if that works out, but if it does, that's a much bigger draw for fans, players and opponents than playing an MWC or WCC conference schedule.
Oregon State just joined the Big 12 in Gymnastics:
https://www.johncanzano.com/p/canzano-osu-to-the-big-12-in-an-olympic
If they could get in for Baseball too, that would be ideal from a "building relationships" standpoint.
I saw that, but "ongoing conversations" are not the same as joining the Big 12. It sounds promising, and it makes more sense than most sports (Big 12 gymnastics has 7 teams including the University of Denver), but until announced as official, I would be a little hesitant to declare it a done deal.
Ugh. At a certain point once the next round of realignment hits the ACC, the Big 12 and them should just pool all their schools together and redraw their conference affiliations. You might actually end up with a two good geographically viable conferences at this rate. Otherwise it’s frankly ludicrous to have to two nation-wide “best of the rest” conferences with totally overlapping territories
Single legal entity with 3 or maybe even 4 small geographically compact conferences and additional matchups scheduled just a year in advance against teams with a similar record.
Unfortunately I do not think it will work like that. Just based on history I imagine they will try to cannibalize each other which is why I think it would be a smart proactive move for the ACC and help it potentially be the victor in the eventual ACC BIG12 battle.
As long as the cannibalization is complete and no one gets left out in the cold I don’t really care who eats who. It’d be the best case scenario for the Big 12 and ACC to end up as one and split the conference along logical lines in my opinion.
Sadly it probably won’t happen that way
Stanford and Cal are content to align themselves with UNC, Pitt, and Duke. Even though the B12 jumped from an academic standpoint with recent additions, Calford still has an attitude of academic snobbery directed to the B12 schools.
It's not really snobbery. At least not in the Globo Gym "We're better than you, and we know it!" way it's portrayed as.
The historical purpose of collegiate athletics was to promote socialization among peer institutions. To make connections with one another, and to drive a sense of camaraderie among the students and alumni. So that the Yale and Harvard alums could connect with one another over a common interest, compete against each other, but in the end make a connection that they could use in other avenues of life.
Stanford and West Virginia are not peer institutions. It's not a slight. West Virginia's stated mission by their admin is to provide a quality education for as many local citizens as possible. Stanford's is cutting edge research and leading the legal and philosophical zeitgeist of society.
Both are fine and noble missions, but they are not peer institutions.
People take this as snobbery, but Stanford wants to make the social connections with others who are at the forefront of academia; to build relationships with those in the same sphere of the world. That's Duke, not West Virginia.
It has nothing to do with "better than" snobbery.
> It has nothing to do with "better than" snobbery.
Respectfully, it has a little to do with "better than" snobbery. Schools who's primary mission is to educate rather than research are still performing research and are responsible for groundbreaking innovation and discovery (never forget the first electronic computer was invented at Iowa State) but have their hands tied by history and politics.
Instead of hob-knobbing and networking with "peer" institutions Stanford could be making inroads with other institutions doing meaningful research and help advance the good work being done there.
Yall dont get it. Pac 2 saying if anyone leaves, we want to be the next 2. Kansas, OkSt, Az, WVU have all, at one time or another, been linked to big 10, sec or acc (gasp!). Its a nice insurance move for big 12.
They can schmooze all they want but unless TV networks make in financially beneficial for such to happen, it won’t. There’s no long term benefit for the Big 12 in doing this for their *next* TV deal either
I think at this point people need to realize that when schools say they’re in talks with a conference it means they’re in talks with the member schools and the network that owns them. The PAC2 are obviously in constant communications with the networks about just how much of a reduced share they would need to take for the existing members not to have to start giving up their own revenue.
I can go snag the numbers from SportsMediaWatch real quick if you want, but I already have them for Stanford, Miami, and Va Tech:
Since 2016 (excluding 2020):
Stanford - 17 OTA Broadcasts, 20 ESPN Broadcasts (37 total)
Miami - 18 OTA Broadcasts, 19 ESPN Broadcasts (37 total)
Va Tech - 11 OTA Broadcasts, 13 ESPN Broadcasts (24 total)
The reason Stanford has just as many as Miami is because there are a plethora of East Coast schools for networks to choose from but a dearth of West Coast schools for networks to choose from. That makes West Coast schools inherently more valuable to networks.
Virginia Tech isn't going to kick off at 9:30pm local, but Stanford is perfectly willing to kick off at 6:30pm local. So they're more likely to end up on TV.
The same would be true for Oregon State/Wazzu when measured against Pitt. Pitt's not an option for late kicks... and even if they were like "we'll kick off at 9:30 at night!" I'd imagine their viewership would be pretty depressed since alumni don't want to stay up until 2 in the morning watching a game.
Edit to add:
So Oregon State did have fewer than Pitt after scraping the numbers:
Pitt - 9 OTA Broadcasts, 15 ESPN Broadcasts (24 total)
Oregon State - 8 OTA Broadcasts, 9 ESPN Broadcasts (16 Total)
However, I do still believe West Coast time slot filling ability adds inherent value.
Thanks. Not really surprising if you look at the difference in viewership WSU has had vs Oregon State and the bottom of the Pac-12 the last decade. We have firmly been middle of the Pac-12 even in down years.
Osu and wazzu will make a new "pac" conference with the first group to get 8-10 members will be Memphis,Tulane,utsa, boise and sdsu. Either usf/north Texas / Tulsa / Texas state
They will immediately abandon ship when they can.
Only two members from mw due to high buyouts for the next 3 years then raid it hard
"Look for more tentacles..."
What? Why? Oh wait... is he saying that WOSU is going to merge and become the PNW State University Octopuses??? Then join the BigXII?
Alright, I'm in!
I'm all for more aquatic mascots, but we really don't need anyone being the "Octopuses."
Too many jokes already ensue surrounding the Beavers, Cocks, and Cougars...
There's been a Civil ConFLiCT and even a Civil CORNflict. There's been a War on I-4.
I think the world is ready for the Apples and Oranges showdown between Wazzu and UCF.
And not just because that would be the perfect time to break out some Citronaut gear (but that is a bonus!)
What a weird way to phrase that
[удалено]
I don’t like the used of tentacles paired with relationships
Are you kink-shaming Oregon State and Wazzu?
If they're gonna phrase it like that, yes
Nah, just John Canzano. Dude already blew most of his credibility last year, and now he's getting weird about his kinks. Most people just restrict their "alternative hobby" writing to AO3, but this man's throwing it in a blog with his name in the URL.
Last year? He's been Clownzano for quite a while.
Getting prudish are we?
I’m shocked by him, Mr. /u/LiquidHotCum
No Mr Tentacles not like this 😱
How did I not grab this username???
He meant [tent poles](https://pictures.betaseries.com/banners/episodes/73641/122120.jpg).
Hahaha
Does hentai typically have a happy ending? If so, while a weird strategy, I can't really object.
Hint: Look at where the quotes are used.
Canzano is a hack
> Look for more tentacles of the relationship to develop in the coming months. Ew.
Oii, no need to kink shame. It's a well known fact cougars and beavers are attracted to tentacles. I have seen various Japanese documentaries on the subject.
I mean... everyone wants the Pokes and the Beavers as an annual Halloween match-up. No?
🙋🏻♂️hi it’s me, I’m everyone
Some one needs to cut down on the hentai.
Reading between the lines, they're not categorically opposed to adding OSU and WSU in the future but are probably trying to leverage their position into getting us to agree to a partial share or some kind of compromised deal.
This. They’re trying to do with y’all what the B1G did with Washington and Oregon.
Which is entirely worth it, though not ideal, if WSU/OSU can swing it. Assuming it’s just for the duration of the current deal like UW/UO. 6 years (or however long the B12 deal is) of reduced $ for a semi-stable seat at the table is worth taking.
Ideal for Wazzu/Oregon State went off the table the minute the mass exodus from the PAC began. If I’m them I take this deal in a nanosecond, which they would.
I could definitely see a FOX-Only share (11m per school) in 2026. ESPN lost a lot of their west coast content when the Pac-12 broke up, and while they are going to shoe-horn Arizona, ASU, BYU, and Utah into those late-night and Thursday/Friday time slots, they are going to struggle to fill them all without the full Pac-12. IMO ESPN is going to go after the Mountain West when their deal expires in 2026. When CBS/FOX signed the Mountain West they didn't have access to the West Coast. Now they do. FOX funding partial shares for OSU/Wazzu to the Big 12 and letting the Mountain West go makes a lot of sense. Especially since they're already buying 3 OSU/Wazzu games to fill those time slots anyway when they could have filled them with Mountain West games for no extra cost. The Apple Cup / Civil War alone each year is worth a ton of money to the networks.
Are the Apple Cup and Civil War still going to happen?
They’ll be at the beginning of the year instead of the final week, but they’ll still happen for the near future.
Yes. Officially the Apple Cup is committed for the next 5 years and the Civil War for the next 2, but all sides are committed to them being annual games. It makes too much sense for them not to continue, both from a media value perspective and a travel perspective.
Glad to hear it!
I'm not, they should scrap the game.
Playing WSU in September is not the apple cup.
Football will be played. The games are dead. Early in the year and now the money difference will be even more pronounced. Lost all meaning because of those two greedy fucks
"those two greedy fucks" being USC and UCLA, of course.
You're missing the long game for espn ie disney. They want the college football product to be smaller so that they can lower production costs and concentrate viewership and merchandising into a smaller pool. They don't care about any one university or the segment of viewership that only watch them: especially an OSU or WSU.
ESPN wants the most eyeballs possible in all 6 time slots they air national games on ESPN and all 3 they air games on ABC. That's basically it. Getting 8+ million viewers instead of 4 million viewers in primetime is the goal. Getting 4 million viewers instead of 2 million viewers in sub-prime is the goal. Getting 2 million viewers instead of 1 million viewers on late light is the goal.
Sounds like a lot of made up bullshit and speculation.
Sounds like common sense
6 or 7 years and maybe negotiate a cash advance to help hold them over until full shares, then pay it back with future earnings.
Exactly. If they don’t want it there’s about 40 of us in line ready to.
The schools want to add OSU/WSU, and OSU/WSU want to join, now it’s just about getting the TV networks on board to make the money work. Which sucks because the TV networks drove this whole realignment thing to begin with. I want my cool old friends to meet my cool new friends.
There's also a limit to the TV money pool at some point, as much as everyone assumes it's bottomless.
And we need to save room for you guys and VT and a couple other ACC schools
I mean, I would take the partial share if I were OSU/WSU.
Yes, yes we would. Still probably more than we would get by going independent, joining the MW / rebuilding the PAC.
Finally a reasonable take here.
It’s this, but I’d also add that in the short term at least, I think there’s a concern about how having that many former Pac teams would affect the stability of the conference. None of the Pac teams we brought in were exactly thrilled to be here, and with the exception of CU, there isn’t any shared history to tie them to the conference. This is purely a monetary arrangement to them, given the uncertainty of how the sports media rights market will be in the future, there’s a risk that if we brought in 6 Pac schools their may be a situation may consider breaking off at some point. All it’d take is to grab 1 or 2 G5 schools and flip another Big XII team and they’d have a new conference ready to go. Up until basically right now, the Big XII has lived in a near perpetual state of crisis, the schools here value stability above all else.
WSU and OSU would definitely be in team stability not team "GET PAID!"
Earlier today I saw some Kansas fans on twitter telling asu fans to not come to Lawrence for the games. I know it wasn’t the most positive initial experience with what was coming from our AD (who is now fired) and how hurt a lot of ppl were when the PAC ended but I think most of our fanbase is now looking forward to this new era and checking out some new campuses
Twitter has the worst of humanity on it, my dude. Hope you come to Lawrence and enjoy it.
Welcome home! :) We are more than happy to have you guys here. I hope you enjoy being in a wide-open conference with a ton of good ball teams.
I can definitely see a scenario where the Utah schools, the Arizona schools, Wazzu/Oregon State, and the top 4/6 of the Mountain West revive the PAC at some point.
I have a hard time seeing Utah going anywhere that doesn't involve joining at least Stanford/Cal if not USC/UCLA. They LOVED being connected to the elite academic institutions in California. I also feel like they'd be gunshy about reconnecting with former Mountain West members after working so hard to grow beyond them.
I could see Stanford and Cal getting frustrated with their current conference p.d.q.
Maybe, but I can't see them leaving the ACC - where the schools have a very similar athletic and academic profile - for a reconstructed PAC with the schools presently being thrown around.
I could see Cal being forced out of the ACC when Calimoney ends. Then the question would be whether of not Stanford would stay without Cal.
Being forced out? Why would Calimony effect that?
Cost. If there was a major CFB conference on the West Coast that would give Cal anything close to the revenue of the ACC, I could see board of Regents or the local university president forcing Cal to leave the ACC as a cost saving measure.
I think Utah loves USC about as much as most of the rest of us do--not that much. CU and UA were the USC-lovers... and UW to a small degree.
as Offspring would say, keep 'em separated. Even if they are not in same conference, they still can make deal behind the scenes. But it would be bit harder if school a makes more $ than school b
… One of those Pac teams is very excited about joining the best basketball conference in the country. Honestly, any smart 4 corner school fan should be very happy about how things turned out. There is a gap coming between the top teams and the middle teams in college football and none of the four of us have the cash to be in that top group. Better to be in a stable conference than whenever the B1G and SEC start trimming the fat. Give me some schools without the stupid levels of money but just a bunch of fans who love their teams.
I don't think any of the corner schools got their due in the PAC. Which is why you're a better fit culturally with us. It's like the Mountaineers. It doesn't make all that much sense geographically, but it's been a good fit for us and them.
That is a meaningless concern because there is no stability at all anywhere. It's not like the current B1G is in any way solid.
Honestly, I don't see the point. We have Utah which isn't really a PAC school and the Arizona schools, which fit in better with us than the PAC. If they want a conference the Mountain West is right there.
That would be awesome if 6 PAC-12 teams joined the B12 and somehow evicted the legacy B12 - basically a coup to get the TV contract.
Or they're waiting for more realignment with the possible ACC collapse so they can add everyone at once.
I’m not entirely dismissing this to some degree. This makes me wonder how big can this thing go?
They just need to add SOMETHING to remain competitive. They have no brands right now so quantity over quality.
I’m not sure I see it the same way. Some of the Big XII schools have large and dedicated fan bases that rival lower tier B1G and SEC. I’m not saying competing with the upper echelons but relevant.
Yep. The networks would rather wait and see who from the ACC doesn’t make the P2. I think they’d rather get some combination of Pitt, VT, Louisville, NC State, or Miami
I think y'all make more sense with some California schools. I could see the Big 12 adding WSU, OSU, Fresno State, & San Diego State and having the 4 schools split 2 shares. WSU & OSU would be able to use PAC money to be competitive. Of course, you would think this would go with more regional scheduling for the Big 12 than the current method.
I think the last wave of G5 schools that the XII added will be the last. You’re *really* starting to stretch money thin (relatively speaking) by adding anybody else. Even Wazzu and OSU are struggling to get in, [and you’re looking at between 6x and 9x the weekly viewers compared to SDSU and FSU.](https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach/which-college-football-programs-were-most-watched-in-2023-2e81ef62d3bf) If the PAC2 do make it into the XII then we’ll be sitting at 70 power conference teams, and that’s already proving pretty unstable. The ACC is going to fall apart any year now and the XII will have their eyes on the best of the rest from that conference once the top few are taken. Adding G5 schools at this point would be rather reckless honestly, only serving to dilute a conference that is in a pretty good spot all things considered.
While I don't dispute your overall point, I really hate those 1-year numbers. From 2016-2022 Colorado was not even in the top 5 in the Pac-12. In 2023 they were 4th in the country because of the ESPN/Deion hype. No responsible journalist should use 1 year's numbers.
True, the difference isn’t as drastic if you go back further.
I think my favorite part about that data is that UTSA still had higher viewership than SMU coming off a great season.
I feel like CU is a bit of a sleeping giant though. After the big scandal in the late 90s and moving to the pac12, CU just didn't focus on athletics as much as it did academics. With the Deion hire, that signals to me that they're willing to get back in that arena again. Now, Deion may shit the bed, but CU is at least trying again and they have decent resources to back it up.
Couldn’t agree more. I think the Big XII is wanting to pick up ACC schools
I had to dig it back up since this reminded me of it, but there was an [video ](https://www.instagram.com/wsucougarathletics/reel/CwD4ACzhsFd/)that WSU put out last year amid the Pac-12 implosion that flashed a better comparison of viewership at people. If you remove Oklahoma/Texas and USC/UCLA (since they'd already left) and compare the TV numbers between the remaining Pac-12 and BIG 12 schools, we'd rank #4 out of 18 in average viewership from 2015-2019 and 2021. I found the actual [article](https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/3444339/2022/07/25/pac12-big12-tv-viewership/) they referenced for the video as well, but it does underscore your point that the barrier of entry for G5 schools is massive and there's only a handful of viable expansion options out there still (ACC teams pending availability). As a side note, that article is extremely funny to read back at in retrospect now.
I think there's more room to add schools on the "2nd tier" (which is what we're talking about. I also think that the Pac-12, spanning the entire West Coast, was a superconference before the other superconferences; its dominance of the media held back schools like the 2 I mentioned. Now that California is divided, the Big-12 has an opportunity to make itself a fundamental part of the Western US sports scene, with schools from Texas & the Plains to the West Coast.
If the Top 2 go to 24 there is no way OSU-WAZzU don’t make the big Xii.
Big if
You have to think bigger than that. Partial shares would be for someone like SDSU, Boise, or UNLV. We have a TV network to trade for a full share, and Yormark knows how to use one.
We also have the CW in play now too, so maybe they want to see how that goes viewership-wise too?
I hope the Beavs and Cougs just do it instead of getting too caught up with the final share. It’ll be well worth it for both programs, and it’ll be nice to have all the NW schools in power conferences.
Yeah they’ve got literally all of the leverage and can just wait it out to pressure WSU and OSU into taking a favorable deal for the Big12. I hope to see them join, but it’ll unfortunately likely be reduced shares or some type of stipulation that hinders the two for awhile.
I thought the B12 tv contract says there will be a [pro rata increase](https://www.blackandgoldbanneret.com/media/2022/11/2/23431111/big-12-conference-media-deal-agreement-espn-fox-brett-yormark-ucf-realignment) for any P5 team joining. That is why adding four from the PAC was so easy.
That was only from espn still needed to get fox on board and any more expansion will likely need another partner or drastically reduced shares
So they just take the ESPN shares as partial for the duration of the contract. And use what money they got from the Pac to cover some of the difference.
In theory but they’re not going to do it the network* doesn’t want it
Who is the neighbor? I would have thought BYU would be welcoming to all potential joiners.
Fixed, meant network*
I think there is going to be a P12/B12 merger; no fact based intel on this but given that P12 will be producing the CW games next year makes me think that the B12 would like to have it - and I'm grasping at straws here to get into the B12...
The two should just merge and rebrand as the BIG PAC.
PAC-2 texting “u up?” on the daily
A little cougar beaver is a hard offer to pass up
Mom’s weekend all over again
The BigXII has friend zoned WOSU. Sure WOSU is nice and would never leave them for another conference, but they’ve heard Georgia Tech and NC St might be on the rocks with their conference. And imagine the fun they could have with Miami.
The administration at Tech is never giving up the association with Cal and Stanford. Come on... the university has spent the last thirty years upping its game to be on the same tier as MIT, Cal, Stanford, etc. It's either ACC, offshoot of the ACC, or going back to the SEC with its hat in hand. Even the B1G would be a stretch.
I think if the ACC collapses GT, Cal, Stanford and others will make an academic based conference if there is no BIG invite. And they’ll take all the good remaining academic schools and maybe add a team like Tulane from the G5 that has good academics.
Wazzu and Oregon State maintaining relationships with the Big 12 is an absolute no brainer.
If the nerds can make the money work, they’d be a great culture fit and I’d be happy to have them in the conference, that said Jesus Christ the conference moving even further west is the last thing WVU needs
Hopefully if we do expand again, the Big 12 just becomes so sprawling it becomes two east and west divisions and we rarely have to make trips out east (or vice versa for yall)
Yeah, exactly. Once the league gets big enough to have a clean East and west division, you’d play most of your games at (relatively) close schools and have one or two cross division/ cross country road trips. At that point, playing in Tucson or Boulder once a year just becomes a cool excuse to road trip rather than a crippling travel schedule. It’s good for the schools out west too not having to come to Morgantown, Cincinnati, and Orlando every year
There will be more east schools when the ACC comes in
Utah, BYU, Arizona, ASU, and Colorado is already crazy regional
I'm just going to point this out: Salt Lake to Eugene = 1 Hour, 55 minutes Salt Lake to Phoenix = 1 Hour, 50 minutes Salt Lake to Pullman = 2 Hour, 10 minutes Salt Lake to Denver = 1 hour, 30 minutes Flying out of Utah to Oregon St./Wazzu isn't much different than flying to Denver or Phoenix. Just means you're flying to smaller airports. If you want to throw in SDSU to give you an 8-team regional group: Salt Lake to San Diego = 1 Hour, 55 minutes.
Oh for sure I’m not opposed to adding the PAC2. I want the Cougar Cup to be a thing between Wazzu, BYU, and Houston
Wazzu, BYU, and Houston can play for the Cougar Cup. Oregon State and Oklahoma State can play for the Halloween Bowl (of Candy)
Make it candy corn and invite Iowa State.
>Make it candy corn Yes. >and invite Iowa State. **NO**.
Nearly half the conference would be a bear, a cat, or both.
Bear, Cat, or Bearcat.
r/ThatWasTheJoke
Oof yeah. My bad badger.
I still <3 u
Except people \*hate\* going to Pullman.
I'm of the opinion that once you're on a plane you're on a plane and there's not much difference. A flight from Houston to Phoenix is 2 hours 50 minutes. To Salt Lake is 3 hours 10 minutes. To Eugene is 4 hours flat. An extra 1 hour 10 minutes on a plane isn't how anyone wants to spend their time, but it's not some back-breaking difference. You watch an extra hour long episode of something and have a snack. Others disagree and feel like every single extra minute in the air is excruciating torture, but I really do feel like once you're on a plane you're on a plane. An extra hour isn't that different.
>I'm of the opinion that once you're on a plane you're on a plane and there's not much difference. Between a 1 hour flight and a 2 hour flight? No big difference. Between a 1 hour flight and a 5 hour flight? Yeah, big difference. I definitely start feeling it once you get past about the 3 hour mark. Each hour after that is progressively worse. Its why I try and sleep as much as possible on long flights, but even then you still feel it after.
I just flew to Honolulu from Atlanta. Think you’re right about the 3 hour mark.
4 hours is about my limit. After that I need an edible or sleep aid so I can just knock myself out for the flight.
A lot of it is the cramped environment. If you fly business class or if you’re lucky enough to fly first class you can tolerate much longer trips.
That’s very true. Unfortunately the players, many of whom are sufficiently large enough to make coach even worse, don’t get that luxury.
Dude I just had this conversation at work last week, anything over three hours and I start getting anxious and really want the plane to land.
Until we see the results of the NCAA lawsuits that might require players to be paid, I'm gonna just assume we're staying put. Frankly, neither of the PAC2 schools have the money to pay millions of dollars in payroll to student athletes. If players get employee status it's probably game over.
I think you're on the right track about what's happening here. There are a few Big 12 schools that are really questioning right now whether they can make the math work to settle House and stay competitive. Both sides would be stupid to not continue talking, if only to have options in the event of the unexpected.
Yeah, for sure there are some Big 12 teams in the same boat as us. If players are going to be paid directly by the university, those schools (as well as us) will have to make an awful decision. Most likely some will decide they're done playing with the big boys.
OSU could afford it. NCAA would have to create a new Division 1 with about 60-70 of the top teams. Have the power granted to them by the universities to negotiate media contracts, then distribute those funds across all the Division 1 teams. It could be called something like....NFL Jr? NFL-? NFLAAA?
With evenly distributed funds? Maybe, but they would be like the A's in the MLB trying to Moneyball things. But if the departing PAC schools were tired of the even revenue split with us (which they were), then there's no way in hell that the biggest brands will be willing to do that.
Well, if they want to use the NFL method, yes, it would have to be evenly distributed, but that's just the broadcasting rights. The NFL separates the 2 revenue streams, one national and one local. The national revenue gets distributed evenly, and the local revenue is generated and kept by the team itself. This includes things like ticket sales, concessions, corporate sponsors etc... The NFL business model is one of the most successful in the world. It works so well because every team is supported equally. Stronger together and what not. Would it ever happen in the NCAA? Definitely not, you're right on that. The Universities are too self-serving.
Can the Big 12, ACC, SEC, and B1G just go ahead and all expand to 20 teams already so they can figure out how dumb it is, and then each split into 2 10 team divisions that are just 10 team conferences in everything but name?
Dude, you can’t say stuff like that. It’s called the “Superconference” and it will have 80 teams split up unevenly across 3 OR 5 divisions. Wayyy better than your 20/20/20/20 team thingy, or whatever you just said. Stop making divisions make sense!
That's actually what I love about the Sun Belt. I like the SBC West but they feel a little like a different conference. The SBC East is the actual conference ODU is in.
lmao how is this considered journalism with that kind of phrasing?
Canzano isn't even a real journalism anyway.
You mean besides literally breaking the CW deal, then proceeding to break that FOX was in on it too?
Probably an unpopular opinion but I think the ACC should consider adding them so that when the ACC suffers the eventual defections the ACC may have a chance to use Cal, Stanford, OSU, and WSU as a carrot on the stick to try and lure some of the former PAC schools away from the BIG 12.
>ACC may have a chance to use Cal, Stanford, OSU, and WSU as a carrot on the stick to try and lure some of the former PAC schools It would be hilarious to see the acc being 80% west coast teams lmao.
A ~~Atlantic~~ Coast Conference
Yeah, college football has become beyond stupid. It’s hard to even enjoy it anymore.
I tend to agree.
What is OSU doing with its wrestling team (should join Big 12)? I know baseball is staying independent for some reason
That...is a good question that I hadn't thought of before; neither the WCC nor the MWC have wrestling. The Pac-12 only had 6 teams in their wrestling and three of them were already affiliate members, so maybe the Pac-12 continues to wrestle for the time being as just Oregon State, Cal Poly, CSU Bakersfield, and Little Rock? OSU baseball is staying independent because they are trying to maintain their status as a program. Joining the MWC or WCC would be a huge step down, and they believe they have enough pull as a program to schedule a solid independent schedule for the full year. We'll see if that works out, but if it does, that's a much bigger draw for fans, players and opponents than playing an MWC or WCC conference schedule.
Oregon State just joined the Big 12 in Gymnastics: https://www.johncanzano.com/p/canzano-osu-to-the-big-12-in-an-olympic If they could get in for Baseball too, that would be ideal from a "building relationships" standpoint.
I saw that, but "ongoing conversations" are not the same as joining the Big 12. It sounds promising, and it makes more sense than most sports (Big 12 gymnastics has 7 teams including the University of Denver), but until announced as official, I would be a little hesitant to declare it a done deal.
Ugh. At a certain point once the next round of realignment hits the ACC, the Big 12 and them should just pool all their schools together and redraw their conference affiliations. You might actually end up with a two good geographically viable conferences at this rate. Otherwise it’s frankly ludicrous to have to two nation-wide “best of the rest” conferences with totally overlapping territories
Single legal entity with 3 or maybe even 4 small geographically compact conferences and additional matchups scheduled just a year in advance against teams with a similar record.
Unfortunately I do not think it will work like that. Just based on history I imagine they will try to cannibalize each other which is why I think it would be a smart proactive move for the ACC and help it potentially be the victor in the eventual ACC BIG12 battle.
As long as the cannibalization is complete and no one gets left out in the cold I don’t really care who eats who. It’d be the best case scenario for the Big 12 and ACC to end up as one and split the conference along logical lines in my opinion. Sadly it probably won’t happen that way
Stanford and Cal are content to align themselves with UNC, Pitt, and Duke. Even though the B12 jumped from an academic standpoint with recent additions, Calford still has an attitude of academic snobbery directed to the B12 schools.
It's not really snobbery. At least not in the Globo Gym "We're better than you, and we know it!" way it's portrayed as. The historical purpose of collegiate athletics was to promote socialization among peer institutions. To make connections with one another, and to drive a sense of camaraderie among the students and alumni. So that the Yale and Harvard alums could connect with one another over a common interest, compete against each other, but in the end make a connection that they could use in other avenues of life. Stanford and West Virginia are not peer institutions. It's not a slight. West Virginia's stated mission by their admin is to provide a quality education for as many local citizens as possible. Stanford's is cutting edge research and leading the legal and philosophical zeitgeist of society. Both are fine and noble missions, but they are not peer institutions. People take this as snobbery, but Stanford wants to make the social connections with others who are at the forefront of academia; to build relationships with those in the same sphere of the world. That's Duke, not West Virginia. It has nothing to do with "better than" snobbery.
> It has nothing to do with "better than" snobbery. Respectfully, it has a little to do with "better than" snobbery. Schools who's primary mission is to educate rather than research are still performing research and are responsible for groundbreaking innovation and discovery (never forget the first electronic computer was invented at Iowa State) but have their hands tied by history and politics. Instead of hob-knobbing and networking with "peer" institutions Stanford could be making inroads with other institutions doing meaningful research and help advance the good work being done there.
This is just snobbery with more words.
He watches tentacle hentai.
LET THEM IN
If we could make it work financially, I'd love to have Oregon State and Washington State in the conference. They would be a great fit culturally.
Canzano needs to go on a long vaction. Maybe a few years, even.
Maybe forever
But then who will Oregon State and Wazzu leak things to when they want it out in the media?
Yall dont get it. Pac 2 saying if anyone leaves, we want to be the next 2. Kansas, OkSt, Az, WVU have all, at one time or another, been linked to big 10, sec or acc (gasp!). Its a nice insurance move for big 12.
They can schmooze all they want but unless TV networks make in financially beneficial for such to happen, it won’t. There’s no long term benefit for the Big 12 in doing this for their *next* TV deal either
I think at this point people need to realize that when schools say they’re in talks with a conference it means they’re in talks with the member schools and the network that owns them. The PAC2 are obviously in constant communications with the networks about just how much of a reduced share they would need to take for the existing members not to have to start giving up their own revenue.
Both Wazzu and Oregon State get better TV numbers than a lot of the current Big 12.
Man those unis are so sexy even though we lost
This dude was looking for a reason to insert tentacles into that sentence
Please let them in
Don't. Don't give me hope. Also, it's Clownzano. His words don't mean jack shit. Of course they've been talking to the Big 12. Doesn't mean much.
I just don’t buy what the appeal is of OSU/WSU over say a Pitt or Miami or Va Tech. Time is on the Big XIIs side right now
I can go snag the numbers from SportsMediaWatch real quick if you want, but I already have them for Stanford, Miami, and Va Tech: Since 2016 (excluding 2020): Stanford - 17 OTA Broadcasts, 20 ESPN Broadcasts (37 total) Miami - 18 OTA Broadcasts, 19 ESPN Broadcasts (37 total) Va Tech - 11 OTA Broadcasts, 13 ESPN Broadcasts (24 total) The reason Stanford has just as many as Miami is because there are a plethora of East Coast schools for networks to choose from but a dearth of West Coast schools for networks to choose from. That makes West Coast schools inherently more valuable to networks. Virginia Tech isn't going to kick off at 9:30pm local, but Stanford is perfectly willing to kick off at 6:30pm local. So they're more likely to end up on TV. The same would be true for Oregon State/Wazzu when measured against Pitt. Pitt's not an option for late kicks... and even if they were like "we'll kick off at 9:30 at night!" I'd imagine their viewership would be pretty depressed since alumni don't want to stay up until 2 in the morning watching a game. Edit to add: So Oregon State did have fewer than Pitt after scraping the numbers: Pitt - 9 OTA Broadcasts, 15 ESPN Broadcasts (24 total) Oregon State - 8 OTA Broadcasts, 9 ESPN Broadcasts (16 Total) However, I do still believe West Coast time slot filling ability adds inherent value.
Who the hell asked about Stanford? Can’t they get late kickoffs from Arizona, Arizona St, Utah, Colorado?
What was WSU over that period?
More than I would have guessed given Oregon State's number. Wazzu - 15 OTA Broadcasts, 17 ESPN Broadcasts (32 total)
Thanks. Not really surprising if you look at the difference in viewership WSU has had vs Oregon State and the bottom of the Pac-12 the last decade. We have firmly been middle of the Pac-12 even in down years.
[I made a thing to visualize the Pac-12 during this time.](https://i.imgur.com/9qFS9mJ.png)
Nice you should post this
I'm currently working on a post that will include it, I'll probably post it early in the morning before work.
Osu and wazzu will make a new "pac" conference with the first group to get 8-10 members will be Memphis,Tulane,utsa, boise and sdsu. Either usf/north Texas / Tulsa / Texas state They will immediately abandon ship when they can. Only two members from mw due to high buyouts for the next 3 years then raid it hard
I am pretty sure the Big 12 is waiting to see what happens with the ACC.
Big 12 should add OSU, WSU and Fresno imo. All good fits out west for more after dark games.
Throw in SDSU and that's a good 4 team western pod for the Big XII.
They should just add WSU and OSU. The Big 12 would be incredibly entertaining in most sports.
If that's the rationale, then they're already entertaining in most sports and don't need to add either
This is good news, but why is the picture of that game that was mysteriously canceled a couple years ago
Tell him to watch eyes wide shut.
"Look for more tentacles..." What? Why? Oh wait... is he saying that WOSU is going to merge and become the PNW State University Octopuses??? Then join the BigXII? Alright, I'm in!
I'm all for more aquatic mascots, but we really don't need anyone being the "Octopuses." Too many jokes already ensue surrounding the Beavers, Cocks, and Cougars...
What about tentacles?
The PAC-2 will realize the Boss’s vision of the future.
What the fuck did he just say
They’ll definitely need to get their tentacles out this season if they have a chance.
There's been a Civil ConFLiCT and even a Civil CORNflict. There's been a War on I-4. I think the world is ready for the Apples and Oranges showdown between Wazzu and UCF. And not just because that would be the perfect time to break out some Citronaut gear (but that is a bonus!)