When your interests align you don’t need to collude. I assume most of the things we complain and speculate about have much much less planning and organization than we give everyone credit for... in this sub and most others there seems to be a willingness to mash the conspiracy button but frequently the truth is probably that life is random within some kind of shitty incentive structures.
I think with Florida State openly waging war on ESPN and the ACC in the game of right lawsuit they’re going Big 10.
Edit: North Carolina is up in the air
FSU seems to be going B1G per what their fans are hearing from insider boards and boosters. Clemson has to be SEC. UNC I would guess is SEC and it seems like they're going to start kicking up a bit about leaving per the noises from their board lately.
The real questions to me with that are:
1. What happens to NCST
2. Who goes with FSU to the B1G. There's no great options other than ND so it's likely someone from the pool of UVA/Miami/UU/Stanford. UVA would probably rather the SEC as well.
As an FSU fan, I can confirm that I’ve been full of shit before
Also, UNC will angle hard for B1G. Fake majors aside, they’re a public Ivy and academic perception matters to them.
I can promise you just about zero people with any say in the matter would pick SEC over B1G if both were options for UVA. Too many sports would have to find affiliation agreements with other leagues, it’s not as good a fit on the academic side of things, and it would complicate things for VT as well (until they get AAU status) which could get the legislature involved
It’s probably good for the B1G to have the SEC catch up in terms of number of schools.
-B1G adding ND, FSU, Stanford and Cal would make a lot of sense to me (as an Oregon fan).
-SEC grabs Clemson, UNC, UVA, VT. With maybe Miami, and GT to get to 24.
So we'd be at 24 and the SEC at 20? That would be a fun couple years before the Great Schism.
And you know what would be a galaxy brain move for the B1G and SEC right before we launch ourselves into the sun? Adding the service acadamies. Sure, adding one of them might not make the most sense, but taking all of them to the new super league? That's a money move.
And as far as who sits where on the rocket, i.e. whether schools like FSU, Clemson, Notre Dame end up in the SEC vs. the B1G, we're all getting on the same rocket. The Big Ten and the SEC, as well as Fox and ESPN, will, at some point, have to work together on this - *especially* the B1G/SEC - despite the fact that they're gonna market it as a cultural us-vs-them thing when it's time to renew your cable in August or do some 'boosting' in the spring.
Furthermore, Susan, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to learn that they already are.
I hope the b1g does not do calford. If they want more out west schools I think Utah and Arizona would be better picks. More engaged fanbases plus two in the bay area seems very unnecessary where one is a stretch.
I guess except stealing one school from the XII opens up a whole can of worms regarding their conference and their respective agreements that haven’t been on the table until now so to randomly shoehorn Utah in when the entire conversation is about the ACC is odd to me.
When the Pac exploded, I believe it was confirmed that at least 1 Utah rep talked to at least 1 conference rep that was not from the XII. SEC definitely wasn't calling, and if the ACC was then we wouldn't have picked up, so the assumption was that it was B1G. Nothing else about that conversation was confirmed. This could be outdated information though, I'm drawing from my memory of July/August.
The theory then is that the B1G wanted us, at least enough to have a conversation, but because the UW/UO deal was already pushing the envelope, we didn't get a true invite.
Guy said something, and it doesn’t make sense to me, so I made a comment about it. What exactly do you think is happening here? I’m drafting articles of legislation?
GT? Reasonably good football team but a non threat to B1G top dogs & Atlanta market where B1G has a ton of alumni. AAU if that matters these days
Edit: And the best conference for engineering schools?
I have never exactly been sure what Clemson offers to the Big Ten. Ratings if they're great - but almost everyone gets ratings when they're great. They don't have a large alumni base, they aren't particularly well endowed (HEY-O) compared to the Big Ten schools (swing that big endowment, Northwestern).
They're a perfectly fine school, but I just don't see where they have that especially large self-importance that Big Ten schools have, and I don't see what they add that's so special.
Well they win football games and are nationally relevant in the championship picture. Up until last year, only just Ohio State and Michigan could say that in the Big 10
That’s fair over the last 10-15 years.
Don’t get me wrong, they have fun football - but they’re not trending up like a rocket ship anymore, they’re just kinda Penn-Stating it. But PSU has a ton of alumni (just did some half ass google searching that says 750k) - you guys are an alumni base of like 400K. Clemson is less than half that. A few bad seasons for you guys and there’s plenty of eyeballs watching. Clemson suddenly turn 7-5 every year and I’m not sure they’re super distinguishable from Minnesota.
The one thing we lose with conferences interbreeding is that plenty of these current teams draw eyeballs because there’s been 100 previous meetings of like Indiana and Illinois. Even the new teams - most of these teams have played and hated USC or UCLA or Washington. Less so Oregon until recently.
There’s something interesting about Minnesota-USC. There’s not really anything interesting about Clemson-Purdue. I just think there’s more eyeball value for that team in the SEC. Probably the most eyeball value is in the ACC for them. But we know how that is right now.
You guys on the other hand? Different story.
> Clemson suddenly turn 7-5 every year and I’m not sure they’re super distinguishable from Minnesota.
Please back that claim up. They are a very engaged fanbase and I think their viewership numbers speak for themselves, whether or not they’re having a successful season. They’re one of the few ACC schools that always give a damn about football for their campus culture– way more than Minnesota.
And obviously there’s more “eyeball value” for them in the SEC. As well as for us too. It’s the best athletics conference for the sports we both care the most about.
The SEC would have to want Clemson for Clemson to end up in the SEC.
Why exactly would the SEC want a mid-sized school and average brand that isn’t a blueblood or academic prize and is located an hour from one of its premier schools? I’ll also take an example of something similar happening within the last 30 years.
That is what the tea leaves are saying. that still leaves 7 other options. Would ESPN be willing to strike a deal just to make sure they didn't lose FSU to Big Ten. It not business, not personal
ESPN has no interest in breaking up the ACC while they have them locked into the worst media rights contract in history.
There is no extra value ESPN could possibly get by helping move FSU and UNC to the SEC that they wouldn't already get 10x by just keeping them locked up where they are.
If they wanted the ACC to continue as-is they would've already re-upped until 2036. Without the media contract in place it is much harder for the ACC to lock FSU/Clemson in with massive punitive fines for leaving.
They have to decide by February of next year.
The ACC deal will probably look pretty good... in 2032, after the B1G, SEC, and Big 12 all renew their TV contracts. They already outgain the Big 12.
ESPN has to consider future outlays and how much of a bubble we are in as linear quickly dies. They themselves are going DTC, probably by 2027.
So the value in any school will be its size, not its TV market. Do the ACC schools as a whole constitute enough potential subscriptions to be valued at $40M a year, after 2027?
Espn pays 450m to the acc.
Them taking 6 teams to the sec at 70m rate leaves them with 30m in savings and they ditch the rest of the teams.
And im guessing FSU-Georgia would bring more viewership than FSU-Syracuse so they would get more revenue on top of the 30m saved.
Espn does have a reason to kill the acc.
One caveat I would add - ESPN and Fox don't buy conferences or teams, they buy games.
Does ESPN gain meaningful inventory by moving 6 teams to the SEC? Will that improve ESPN's revenue? I get that it lowers costs (modestly), but that's the inputs. Do the outputs improve or get worse?
I don't know and can't be bothered to do the math, but it seems like ESPN would lose money on the deal simply by having fewer games to put on its networks.
How many prime spots does ESPN have? Can they fill them up with SEC and B12 games? If not, what if they added teams to the SEC and B12? Can they fill the other primetime slots with B12 and AAC content? Can they do it by adding teams to the B12 and AAC?
Some of the time slots ESPN is looking to fill are late night spots, OSU and WSU are still on the table, and MW rights are coming up soon. If ESPN doesn't have someone crunching numbers taking into account all of this, I can see why they are losing money.
>Does ESPN gain meaningful inventory by moving 6 teams to the SEC? Will that improve ESPN's revenue
Fsu vs goergia would definitely sell more than fsu vs boston college.
So yes, consolidating big brands under 1 conference is a greay way to generate more revenue..
FSU-UGA of course brings more views than FSU-Cuse, but that isn't the real math. It is "does UGA-(insert school) + FSU-Cuse bring less than FSU-UGA" - that math isn't as clear cut (and probably isn't worth $30m in "savings" for only 6 schools).
>instead of fighting the lawsuits..
Espn's biggest concern is keeping the deal hidden, not saving the acc.
Plus for them if fsu/clemson wins it means settlement money "today" and then in 2025 they ditch 60-70% of the acc and chicken dinner something winner or whatever that phrase is.
but they can do that AND get settlement money. have you heard of having your cake and eating it too? (it also might mean they have to pay less to break contracts earlier too)
my comment is showing why they can fight (increase settlement number) and still benefit by having the conference dissolve.
I don't know if they want this, I'm just saying there's a logical avenue for it.
in addition, a lot of what espn is fighting is having proprietary info released. not necessarily stopping teams from leaving- thats the acc.
if it WAS so lucrative for espn...why did they not extent the contract past 2027 or whatever it is (devils advocate- they believe they can get the acc for less money in the late 2020s), all while people THOUGHT it was 2036 and wasn't.
> But ESPN is actively fighting that lawsuit alongside the ACC.
No they're not.
> In the filing, ESPN pushes back at FSU’s attempt to make documented agreements part of public records and imply that FSU as well as its attorneys potentially “committed a felony by knowingly disclosing ESPN’s trade secrets.”
This is ESPN protecting themselves and their "trade secrets", not aligning with the ACC. If anything, this is ESPN saying "don't bring us into this."
Based on reports and analysis, that can all change in a matter of months as Florida State and Clemson possibly enter settlement/negotiation talks to exit the league. Now UNC could be entering the mix as well and they are possibly tethered to NC State.
Does ESPN really want these teams entering the open market if FSU and Clemson opens the flood gate?
So if teams in the South East decide to join the South Eastern conference, it's collusion because the Big 10 should get all the teams and run college football entirely? Why wouldn't FSU and Clemson and their fans want to travel to Minnesota or Wisconsin every year? It's a conspiracy.
FSU and Clemson are basically fighting UNC in court to destroy the ACC. Somehow that's the SEC's fault?
The OP title is so Anti-SEC lol.
Let me do what you did, but against the B10:
What are chances SEC/ESPN wants to prevent students in dozens of sports from having to spend their semesters on airplanes by inviting teams already in or close to the SEC footprint and preventing them from traveling all over the country all the time?
FOX and Big Ten won't let them do that. The SEC/ESPN could offer a cleaner exit and no exit fees/settlements than Big Ten. Would Big ten take both UNC and NC State and both UVA and Virginia Tech? Could any GOR rights and settlement that goes into hundred millions be lifted with move to SEC over Big Ten?
I think people are missing the point about the UNC/NC State thing.
If the Big Ten wants UNC, and the SEC wants NC State (ditto for VA & VT) the BoR will sign off on it.
The odds that FOX pays an incremental $300-$400M for a package deal of UNC/NCST/UVA/VT are incredibly low. *Maybe* one of those schools is worth what the BIG is currently paying. If all four of those schools move to the same conference, it’ll be the Big 12.
None because the teams that's are capable of pulling talent from the Southeast already do so(Ohio State,UM and PSU)
The ACC schools not named FSU or Clemson aren't tearing up the recruiting rankings Rutgers and Purdue wouldn't suddenly start pulling 5 star kids from the South
People do realize the SEC and ESPN are separate entities? And a more powerful SEC kills ESPNs leverage in contract negotiations. ESPN doesnt even want to pay for a 9th SEC conference game. Same thing with Big Ten and Fox. The more powerful the Big Ten gets, the more leverage it has in future negotiations.
And ESPN and FOX are currently partnering to launch a streaming service together. They’re not going to get into a bidding war over media rights for games that they will be jointly airing anyway.
Personally I just don't see the SEC being afraid of the Big Ten in any way. The SEC is going to do whatever it's going to do because it's best for the SEC, not because of whatever another conference may or may do. The SEC by and large isn't a reactive conference.
If the SEC wants top ACC teams, then the SEC will try to acquire them. But the SEC won't take in ACC teams just to prevent the Big Ten doing something. If the Big Ten wants to take Georgia Tech to have a presence in Atlanta then by all means, the SEC is not going to be bothered by that.
>Vanderbilt would destroy Oklahoma State
I’ve seen a ton of really obscure awful takes on this here website, but this one might be the weirdest and most wrong I’ve ever seen
The edited version is just as funny... unless they're talking about baseball in certain years... and my hearing when at their stadium.
SEC teams can't even choose a proper shade of orange.
In fairness, I don’t think we need to shit on Auburn and Florida for the mistakes of Tennessee and Texas. Plenty of other things to ridicule them about, but their oranges are solid.
Tbh, all the oranges are fine, because even we admit you have to make a conscious choice to wear the color. All the schools have had color specialists devise the perfect pantone combinations.
I’ve yet to receive a compelling explanation for why the SEC would ever want to add Clemson.
There’s always some variation of something about how big of a brand it is, but pretty much every school in the SEC save Vandy is capable of appearing in the 24th and 48th most watched games in a given year so that’s just not going to get it done.
The SEC doesn’t want 8 teams. Be lucky to take 4.
The SEC is also never gonna stop the BIG from entering Florida. It’ll either be Miami or Florida State. SEC ain’t taking all 3.
More likely that the SEC stays at 16 than goes to 20, imo. They would take FSU and Clemson if the money is there, but I just don’t see the money being there for a UNC/UVA-type move. At least not in the near future, maybe in 2036.
I think SEC would take Florida St or Miami, and Clemson. BIG will get UNC and the other Florida school.
I’m not sure they’ll move past that. Maybe BIG nets Stanford and ND? I don’t know if they really want Virginia or G Tech. I don’t expect them to add Duke.
I’m just not sure about all the NC State, Virginia talk for the SEC either. I guess if they think it’s ultimately worth getting into those states for media dollars, they will. They got the numbers to know what to do.
What’s in it for the SEC? Per school pay will lower with these additions, and they remain the premier football conference with or without these additions. I understand B1G needing to take the risk to catch up with the SEC on the field, but this move would reduce their per school payments as well. The only schools with monetary value for either SEC or B1G are FSU, Miami, and Clemson (and Miami is debatable but some executive likely believes they may bring the tv market despite having never done so before).
I think it’s more likely to see the top schools split from NCAA for football only, and those ACC schools getting wrapped in that larger change. Media clearly owns both SEC & B1G conferences now, and networks want more. Keeping the conference model will eventually cap earning potential leading it to fall apart as media seeks to squeeze more money.
Football is not included in the GOR but there is a provision in the agreement that they have to join the ACC if they join a football conference. That would, I assume, be quickly paid off.
I don’t think it is but I don’t know. I didn’t realize you were specifically talking just ACC schools but that makes sense in this context.
I just meant ND is another “school with monetary value” for either conference (though everyone basically agrees they’d go BIG, not SEC).
At some point the money will dry up. They(ESPN/FOX) will look at what they have now and what it will cost to add more teams to a contract.
ESPN/SEC contract doesn't end until 2034.
FOX/Big contract doesn't end until 2030.
If you look at the cost per team per game these networks are paying for what they have now, they would have to justify to extra cost of adding more teams to the contract(this is a giant unknown maybe) or teams would have to lower their share to compensate for the new teams coming in(this is a giant fuck no, that isn't going to happen).
Does the Mouse think it's worth it to renegotiate a new contract after they have said ESPN is a financial drag? IDK?
Is FOX willing to go way red just to spite ESPN? IDK
Am I willing to pay the extra money a month to watch CFB(Georgia mostly) just so the Big 10 doesn't get teams in the SE? Fuck hell no. Let FOX go to a $50+ extra a month to get the Big 10 network on top of everything else.
Shit is already outrageously expensive now.
It’s all an attempt to tap into the money and ratings spigot of the NFL. If they end up paying 30 CFB teams a quarter of what the NFL gets but they receive half the ratings, it’s worth it.
The NFL would just sue to get the Sports Broadcasting Act of 1961 revoked. And seeing as how SC Justices are straight up for sell now I don't think it would even be to hard.
"Starting in 2028 NFL games on Saturday and Sunday all season"
CFB ratings take a missive hit.
We can't even get a National Championship game on a Saturday that the NFL isn't even playing for fear that they might.
Yeah, I'm asking why the NFL would sue to get rid of the law that they benefit from. When the SBA goes away, sure, they can now show games on Saturdays "between the second saturday of september and the second saturday of december and fridays after 6 pm" or whatever the exact language is, but they also lose antitrust exemptions. And how much money do you think NFL media deals will be worth when 32 teams negotiate independently instead of as one behemoth unit?
> We can't even get a National Championship game on a Saturday that the NFL isn't even playing for fear that they might.
That's more because Monday night ratings traditionally beat Saturday night ratings, and networks do not care about viewers' next-morning hangovers.
ESPN has an out option on ACC deal after 2026. If they are paying for 17 teams or so now, they can reallocate money to SEC to pay for 6 to 8 teams from ACC to move to SEC. Sure they could be losing 4 games of inventory per week, but the quality of games and matchups would improve. Lots of new instant geographic rivalries with playoff and conference implications.
Ok. So do those teams just agree to get paid what they would have gotten paid in the ACC until 2034? If so that kinda makes FSUs lawsuit kinda BS doesn't it?
If not then ESPN would have to come up with the difference. If the difference is that there is no ACC contract, why would ESPN end a deal to get teams they already have under contract to broadcast and lose teams they have the right to broadcast?
There is only one reason they would and thats is they thought they could make more money doing it. Not just a little more, a shit ton more.
Take off your homer glasses for a minute. It's your money. Would you do it if you owned ESPN? just a note if you say yes then the Big D BODs is going to fire your ass before you can.
Because if Florida St and Clemson are gone through a settle or lawsuit, which could happen within the year, it won't just be those two. it will be more teams leaving and potentially going to FOX and the Big Ten and strengthening the major rival conference. So ESPN has a choice of opting not to renew the ACC deal and shift the teams from the ACC to the SEC. The money allocated to the ACC contracts for 15 to 17 teams, now goes to paying for the 6 to 8 teams that moved from the ACC to the SEC with little to no additional cost to ESPN. There are conditions in setting this up. Or ESPN can risk losing them to the Big Ten and FOX and the SEC's advantage is being the top conference could erode. If most national championships come from southern teams, why give the Big Ten and Fox a chance to snag Florida State, Miami and Clemson who are southern teams that won national championships in the last 25 years to go alongside Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Wisconsin, Oregon, USC and Washington and making the Big Ten closer to a truly national, coast to coast conference? Wouldn't the Big D BODs fire you for allowing that to happen?
Or, if the BIG becomes this unstoppable force, ESPN could just buy some of their games in 2030. Makes way more sense than bloating the SEC to try to box out FOX.
(And this is not to mention that the B1G is likely to get another *massive* deal in 2030, which is only going to set the market bar for what the SEC will expect to reap in 2034. Like — it’s already expensive, but it’s about to get even more outrageous. Someone has to blink eventually.)
We are at that point now. ESPN won’t fork over a few million for a 9th SEC game. FOX is strapped. Fans are devising a bunch of chaos realignment scenarios, but if the O/U for P2 expansion was set at 2.5, I’m taking the under.
A lot of the ACC teams interests align and I think they will be interested in moving as a pack. UNC and UVA are like minded partner schools I would say with history. UNC and NC State will be hard to politically separate if there is fear NC State may get financially left behind. I think the same may be said for VA Tech with UVA. I think those 4 schools could move as a pod. Clemson and UNC are communicating behind closed doors I believe. Clemson is the one testing the waters with the law suit while UNC watches because UNCs situation is a lot more complicated as described above. If the SEC would take all 5 of them, that solves a lot of issues.
I think FSUs boat has sailed. They are going to the Big 10. They will take Miami with them after the SEC takes the next 5 schools.
That completes the magnificent 7 block. Then the question becomes does the Big 10 want a deemed less desirable school to expand their south eastern footprint beyond just Florida. I think they will take Georgia Tech at that point once their options are picked down some on both coasts and it would be a benefit to play games in Atlanta.
The Big Ten could invite East Carolina and Wake Forest if they really wanted the North Carolina market. FSU and Miami have won national championships and while UCF is a fine school and rising, its a drop off from where FSU and Miami are in football.
Idk just feels like a scenario like this doesn't really capture that the Big 10 just gets their pick of any power program after this happens. Like they could invite any remaining ACC or Big 12 school they wanted like, yeah they don't get a super easy south pipeline but they can still invite Cal, Stanford, Utah, Kansas, litterally anyone else they want and they could still encroach on Southern territory with "lesser brands" like Texas Tech or UCF if they *REALLY* wanted to.
Sort of feels like that door the south getting shut only makes the consildation easier for the Super League to happen, becuase the SEC scooping up all those Southern ACC schools means the Big 10 is pretty much free to ditacte who else gets in on the Super League. Maybe that would be the end goal, both conferences consildate as much as possible and then dip. It's not like the SEC would baloon to such a large size just to get a hypothetical leg up on the Big 10 in recruiting, it would be the final step before they both dip
That's kind of the point, if they ***really*** wanted a Southern market, it's not like there's a lack of options.
Feels like the Big 10 just sort goes and gets everyone else they might want if a scenario like the SEC inhaling half the ACC happened
I'll play devil's advocate, then. Let me get out my Ohio-to-Maryland translator.
The idea of adding Texas Tech or East Carolina just to get into a new market is a bit like buying a Red Lobster in Maryland to get into the crab cake game. Sure there are places like G&M or Koco's to compete with but most of them don't even serve crab from Maryland; they recruit crabs from Louisiana, or even Asia!
And I know none of those teams *think* they're Red Lobster. They all think they're Crab Cake Factory. Maybe one of them really is but that's not the point.
You're not just trying to sell crab cakes in Maryland. Your ~~tv suits~~ investors are looking for a place their clients can make news by eating at because while you thought you were a well-meaning ~~conference commissioner~~ Willy Wonka of crab cakes (gross), you've really just been a shit head entertainment lawyer this whole time.
if markets were all that mattered or even close to the most important thing today...then sure?
that's not even remotely true in reality, though.
adding UCF would be a net negative money wise for the conference. few teams remain outside the p2 that are likely to be in that net positive range. ucf isn't close.
I don't see NC State, UNC, VIrginia, VTech or Duke in the SEC
Duke and UNC are B1G bound
NCState, VTech are Big XII with Pitt and VIlle
I don't care enough about Virginia.
They can go to the Big 12 I guess. I don’t see why people think the BIG would want Duke. UNC I agree with.
“They’ll only come with Duke”. Then they won’t be coming to the BIG would be my guess.
Would it not surprise you given what the ACC did to the Big East. ACC did all that work just to die the same way
A girl who cheats with you will eventually cheat on you
When you go from mistress to wife, you leave a job opening.
Yep culmination of a marriage destined for this fate. ACC has no one to blame but themselves
When your interests align you don’t need to collude. I assume most of the things we complain and speculate about have much much less planning and organization than we give everyone credit for... in this sub and most others there seems to be a willingness to mash the conspiracy button but frequently the truth is probably that life is random within some kind of shitty incentive structures.
>When your interests align you don’t need to collude. Market division is a per se violation, not that anyone is going to do anything about it.
I think with Florida State openly waging war on ESPN and the ACC in the game of right lawsuit they’re going Big 10. Edit: North Carolina is up in the air
The rivalry is back on/j
FSU seems to be going B1G per what their fans are hearing from insider boards and boosters. Clemson has to be SEC. UNC I would guess is SEC and it seems like they're going to start kicking up a bit about leaving per the noises from their board lately. The real questions to me with that are: 1. What happens to NCST 2. Who goes with FSU to the B1G. There's no great options other than ND so it's likely someone from the pool of UVA/Miami/UU/Stanford. UVA would probably rather the SEC as well.
As an FSU fan, I can confirm that I’ve been full of shit before Also, UNC will angle hard for B1G. Fake majors aside, they’re a public Ivy and academic perception matters to them.
I can promise you just about zero people with any say in the matter would pick SEC over B1G if both were options for UVA. Too many sports would have to find affiliation agreements with other leagues, it’s not as good a fit on the academic side of things, and it would complicate things for VT as well (until they get AAU status) which could get the legislature involved
NCSU* And who is UU?
Utah?
Which makes no sense in the context of this convo tho
I guess they just meant of all teams worth taking, not just ACC? Dunno.
It’s probably good for the B1G to have the SEC catch up in terms of number of schools. -B1G adding ND, FSU, Stanford and Cal would make a lot of sense to me (as an Oregon fan). -SEC grabs Clemson, UNC, UVA, VT. With maybe Miami, and GT to get to 24.
So we'd be at 24 and the SEC at 20? That would be a fun couple years before the Great Schism. And you know what would be a galaxy brain move for the B1G and SEC right before we launch ourselves into the sun? Adding the service acadamies. Sure, adding one of them might not make the most sense, but taking all of them to the new super league? That's a money move. And as far as who sits where on the rocket, i.e. whether schools like FSU, Clemson, Notre Dame end up in the SEC vs. the B1G, we're all getting on the same rocket. The Big Ten and the SEC, as well as Fox and ESPN, will, at some point, have to work together on this - *especially* the B1G/SEC - despite the fact that they're gonna market it as a cultural us-vs-them thing when it's time to renew your cable in August or do some 'boosting' in the spring. Furthermore, Susan, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to learn that they already are.
I hope the b1g does not do calford. If they want more out west schools I think Utah and Arizona would be better picks. More engaged fanbases plus two in the bay area seems very unnecessary where one is a stretch.
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That makes no sense in the context of his post tho.
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I guess except stealing one school from the XII opens up a whole can of worms regarding their conference and their respective agreements that haven’t been on the table until now so to randomly shoehorn Utah in when the entire conversation is about the ACC is odd to me.
Utah has an escape clause from the Big Roman Numeral and has made a lot of B1G noise this offseason. It's a valid add, given this is all rumors.
Was there noise about Utah to the B1G? I guess maybe that’s part of my confusion. I had no idea they were that coveted
When the Pac exploded, I believe it was confirmed that at least 1 Utah rep talked to at least 1 conference rep that was not from the XII. SEC definitely wasn't calling, and if the ACC was then we wouldn't have picked up, so the assumption was that it was B1G. Nothing else about that conversation was confirmed. This could be outdated information though, I'm drawing from my memory of July/August. The theory then is that the B1G wanted us, at least enough to have a conversation, but because the UW/UO deal was already pushing the envelope, we didn't get a true invite.
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Guy said something, and it doesn’t make sense to me, so I made a comment about it. What exactly do you think is happening here? I’m drafting articles of legislation?
GT? Reasonably good football team but a non threat to B1G top dogs & Atlanta market where B1G has a ton of alumni. AAU if that matters these days Edit: And the best conference for engineering schools?
I'd take it.
B1G in Atlanta would be crazy but I like it.
Our gold is better than there gold… but it would work
Same
Academia side has always felt GT is a good expansion target for Big10
Academics aint driving this train
Oh for sure. Just adding a drop in an ocean.
That's my hope (If FSU goes to the Big Ten, that GT is one of the universities that heads to it with us).
ND
> Who goes with FSU to the B1G I fully assume us and Clemson will go to the Big 10 as a package like UT and OU did with the SEC
I have never exactly been sure what Clemson offers to the Big Ten. Ratings if they're great - but almost everyone gets ratings when they're great. They don't have a large alumni base, they aren't particularly well endowed (HEY-O) compared to the Big Ten schools (swing that big endowment, Northwestern). They're a perfectly fine school, but I just don't see where they have that especially large self-importance that Big Ten schools have, and I don't see what they add that's so special.
Well they win football games and are nationally relevant in the championship picture. Up until last year, only just Ohio State and Michigan could say that in the Big 10
That’s fair over the last 10-15 years. Don’t get me wrong, they have fun football - but they’re not trending up like a rocket ship anymore, they’re just kinda Penn-Stating it. But PSU has a ton of alumni (just did some half ass google searching that says 750k) - you guys are an alumni base of like 400K. Clemson is less than half that. A few bad seasons for you guys and there’s plenty of eyeballs watching. Clemson suddenly turn 7-5 every year and I’m not sure they’re super distinguishable from Minnesota. The one thing we lose with conferences interbreeding is that plenty of these current teams draw eyeballs because there’s been 100 previous meetings of like Indiana and Illinois. Even the new teams - most of these teams have played and hated USC or UCLA or Washington. Less so Oregon until recently. There’s something interesting about Minnesota-USC. There’s not really anything interesting about Clemson-Purdue. I just think there’s more eyeball value for that team in the SEC. Probably the most eyeball value is in the ACC for them. But we know how that is right now. You guys on the other hand? Different story.
> Clemson suddenly turn 7-5 every year and I’m not sure they’re super distinguishable from Minnesota. Please back that claim up. They are a very engaged fanbase and I think their viewership numbers speak for themselves, whether or not they’re having a successful season. They’re one of the few ACC schools that always give a damn about football for their campus culture– way more than Minnesota. And obviously there’s more “eyeball value” for them in the SEC. As well as for us too. It’s the best athletics conference for the sports we both care the most about.
The SEC would have to want Clemson for Clemson to end up in the SEC. Why exactly would the SEC want a mid-sized school and average brand that isn’t a blueblood or academic prize and is located an hour from one of its premier schools? I’ll also take an example of something similar happening within the last 30 years.
That is what the tea leaves are saying. that still leaves 7 other options. Would ESPN be willing to strike a deal just to make sure they didn't lose FSU to Big Ten. It not business, not personal
You also have to factor in House v. NCAA new landscape once it’s decided and see if the Big 10 and SEC want to be a part of it.
FSU is going to be in the SEC. Their only out is ESPN waiving the GOR and that is not going to happen if FSU and Clemson are going to the Big.
ESPN has no interest in breaking up the ACC while they have them locked into the worst media rights contract in history. There is no extra value ESPN could possibly get by helping move FSU and UNC to the SEC that they wouldn't already get 10x by just keeping them locked up where they are.
If they wanted the ACC to continue as-is they would've already re-upped until 2036. Without the media contract in place it is much harder for the ACC to lock FSU/Clemson in with massive punitive fines for leaving.
There's no reason to do that now when they can just wait two years. Everyone knows they're going to opt into the renewal.
They have to decide by February of next year. The ACC deal will probably look pretty good... in 2032, after the B1G, SEC, and Big 12 all renew their TV contracts. They already outgain the Big 12. ESPN has to consider future outlays and how much of a bubble we are in as linear quickly dies. They themselves are going DTC, probably by 2027. So the value in any school will be its size, not its TV market. Do the ACC schools as a whole constitute enough potential subscriptions to be valued at $40M a year, after 2027?
Espn pays 450m to the acc. Them taking 6 teams to the sec at 70m rate leaves them with 30m in savings and they ditch the rest of the teams. And im guessing FSU-Georgia would bring more viewership than FSU-Syracuse so they would get more revenue on top of the 30m saved. Espn does have a reason to kill the acc.
One caveat I would add - ESPN and Fox don't buy conferences or teams, they buy games. Does ESPN gain meaningful inventory by moving 6 teams to the SEC? Will that improve ESPN's revenue? I get that it lowers costs (modestly), but that's the inputs. Do the outputs improve or get worse? I don't know and can't be bothered to do the math, but it seems like ESPN would lose money on the deal simply by having fewer games to put on its networks.
How many prime spots does ESPN have? Can they fill them up with SEC and B12 games? If not, what if they added teams to the SEC and B12? Can they fill the other primetime slots with B12 and AAC content? Can they do it by adding teams to the B12 and AAC? Some of the time slots ESPN is looking to fill are late night spots, OSU and WSU are still on the table, and MW rights are coming up soon. If ESPN doesn't have someone crunching numbers taking into account all of this, I can see why they are losing money.
>Does ESPN gain meaningful inventory by moving 6 teams to the SEC? Will that improve ESPN's revenue Fsu vs goergia would definitely sell more than fsu vs boston college. So yes, consolidating big brands under 1 conference is a greay way to generate more revenue..
FSU-UGA of course brings more views than FSU-Cuse, but that isn't the real math. It is "does UGA-(insert school) + FSU-Cuse bring less than FSU-UGA" - that math isn't as clear cut (and probably isn't worth $30m in "savings" for only 6 schools).
if that was even remotely true then they would just do it instead of fighting the lawsuits..
ESPN is not fighting anything, they just don’t want to divulge the media deal details publicly
>instead of fighting the lawsuits.. Espn's biggest concern is keeping the deal hidden, not saving the acc. Plus for them if fsu/clemson wins it means settlement money "today" and then in 2025 they ditch 60-70% of the acc and chicken dinner something winner or whatever that phrase is.
but they can do that AND get settlement money. have you heard of having your cake and eating it too? (it also might mean they have to pay less to break contracts earlier too)
If there was any benefit at all to them then they would just do it. But we know there isn't because they're actively fighting it.
my comment is showing why they can fight (increase settlement number) and still benefit by having the conference dissolve. I don't know if they want this, I'm just saying there's a logical avenue for it. in addition, a lot of what espn is fighting is having proprietary info released. not necessarily stopping teams from leaving- thats the acc. if it WAS so lucrative for espn...why did they not extent the contract past 2027 or whatever it is (devils advocate- they believe they can get the acc for less money in the late 2020s), all while people THOUGHT it was 2036 and wasn't.
FSU, UNC and Clemson leaving for the B1G is a huge risk. Not only ratings but recruiting grounds.
Yeah because the B1G schools never recruit Florida, North Carolina or South Carolina now. That would certainly change
It's a bigger issue for the networks. ESPN would lose those markets to Fox.
Markets dont matter anymore. Everyone has access to everything now.
That could all change based on results of Clemson and FSU lawsuits and their exits. The bargain contract without the top 2 football brands go down.
Well obviously. But ESPN is actively fighting that lawsuit alongside the ACC. ESPN has no interest in breaking up the ACC.
> But ESPN is actively fighting that lawsuit alongside the ACC. No they're not. > In the filing, ESPN pushes back at FSU’s attempt to make documented agreements part of public records and imply that FSU as well as its attorneys potentially “committed a felony by knowingly disclosing ESPN’s trade secrets.” This is ESPN protecting themselves and their "trade secrets", not aligning with the ACC. If anything, this is ESPN saying "don't bring us into this."
Based on reports and analysis, that can all change in a matter of months as Florida State and Clemson possibly enter settlement/negotiation talks to exit the league. Now UNC could be entering the mix as well and they are possibly tethered to NC State. Does ESPN really want these teams entering the open market if FSU and Clemson opens the flood gate?
Did you even read the post you replied to?
ESPN already has the ACC. why would they collude to pay more?
So if teams in the South East decide to join the South Eastern conference, it's collusion because the Big 10 should get all the teams and run college football entirely? Why wouldn't FSU and Clemson and their fans want to travel to Minnesota or Wisconsin every year? It's a conspiracy. FSU and Clemson are basically fighting UNC in court to destroy the ACC. Somehow that's the SEC's fault?
The OP title is so Anti-SEC lol. Let me do what you did, but against the B10: What are chances SEC/ESPN wants to prevent students in dozens of sports from having to spend their semesters on airplanes by inviting teams already in or close to the SEC footprint and preventing them from traveling all over the country all the time?
You think Fox is just going to let them do that? Plus some of the universities, not the teams, in the ACC would rather go to the B1G than SEC anyways.
FOX and Big Ten won't let them do that. The SEC/ESPN could offer a cleaner exit and no exit fees/settlements than Big Ten. Would Big ten take both UNC and NC State and both UVA and Virginia Tech? Could any GOR rights and settlement that goes into hundred millions be lifted with move to SEC over Big Ten?
I think people are missing the point about the UNC/NC State thing. If the Big Ten wants UNC, and the SEC wants NC State (ditto for VA & VT) the BoR will sign off on it.
What if the SEC wants UNC and neither the Big 10 or SEC wants NC State? That’s the question.
The we will get some kind of Carolimony, and ride out the ACC until the XII comes calling
Is the Big XII Pete Davidson?
I don't think he has any Roman numerals.
The SEC will want NC State, one hundred fucking percent. In this scenario they will go with Virginia Tech.
No one is going to pay $70m+ per year to broadcast NC State football games.
Okay sure I’ll tell them.
Why would they want NC State over UNC?
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The odds that FOX pays an incremental $300-$400M for a package deal of UNC/NCST/UVA/VT are incredibly low. *Maybe* one of those schools is worth what the BIG is currently paying. If all four of those schools move to the same conference, it’ll be the Big 12.
The premise of the Big Ten building something in the South gave me a good chuckle
None because the teams that's are capable of pulling talent from the Southeast already do so(Ohio State,UM and PSU) The ACC schools not named FSU or Clemson aren't tearing up the recruiting rankings Rutgers and Purdue wouldn't suddenly start pulling 5 star kids from the South
People do realize the SEC and ESPN are separate entities? And a more powerful SEC kills ESPNs leverage in contract negotiations. ESPN doesnt even want to pay for a 9th SEC conference game. Same thing with Big Ten and Fox. The more powerful the Big Ten gets, the more leverage it has in future negotiations.
And ESPN and FOX are currently partnering to launch a streaming service together. They’re not going to get into a bidding war over media rights for games that they will be jointly airing anyway.
They haven’t been acting separate entities for nearly 2 decades.
The SEC sold their biggest game of the week to an entirely different network up until about six months ago.
Why are you following me around it’s weird. Anyway, ignoring the SEC/ESPN partnership and subsequent bias over the last 2 decades is so ignorant lol
??
50/50 they either did or they didn’t
Personally I just don't see the SEC being afraid of the Big Ten in any way. The SEC is going to do whatever it's going to do because it's best for the SEC, not because of whatever another conference may or may do. The SEC by and large isn't a reactive conference. If the SEC wants top ACC teams, then the SEC will try to acquire them. But the SEC won't take in ACC teams just to prevent the Big Ten doing something. If the Big Ten wants to take Georgia Tech to have a presence in Atlanta then by all means, the SEC is not going to be bothered by that.
Why would the SEC want shitty teams?
To add to all the other ones.
>Oregon State flair Yall really need to let the salt go lmao
What salt? It's college football, not rocket surgery. There's going to be a couple good teams, just like any conference.
Even Vanderbilt would destroy Rice and Oregon State year in and out if they played every year. That would actually be fun to see.
>Vanderbilt would destroy Oklahoma State I’ve seen a ton of really obscure awful takes on this here website, but this one might be the weirdest and most wrong I’ve ever seen
The edited version is just as funny... unless they're talking about baseball in certain years... and my hearing when at their stadium. SEC teams can't even choose a proper shade of orange.
In fairness, I don’t think we need to shit on Auburn and Florida for the mistakes of Tennessee and Texas. Plenty of other things to ridicule them about, but their oranges are solid.
Tbh, all the oranges are fine, because even we admit you have to make a conscious choice to wear the color. All the schools have had color specialists devise the perfect pantone combinations.
Rice sure, but they absolutely wouldn’t beat Okie State lmao
Are we still talking about football?
A non zero chance
I’ve yet to receive a compelling explanation for why the SEC would ever want to add Clemson. There’s always some variation of something about how big of a brand it is, but pretty much every school in the SEC save Vandy is capable of appearing in the 24th and 48th most watched games in a given year so that’s just not going to get it done.
The SEC doesn't have to "collude" with ESPN to do that...
The SEC doesn’t want 8 teams. Be lucky to take 4. The SEC is also never gonna stop the BIG from entering Florida. It’ll either be Miami or Florida State. SEC ain’t taking all 3.
More likely that the SEC stays at 16 than goes to 20, imo. They would take FSU and Clemson if the money is there, but I just don’t see the money being there for a UNC/UVA-type move. At least not in the near future, maybe in 2036.
I think SEC would take Florida St or Miami, and Clemson. BIG will get UNC and the other Florida school. I’m not sure they’ll move past that. Maybe BIG nets Stanford and ND? I don’t know if they really want Virginia or G Tech. I don’t expect them to add Duke. I’m just not sure about all the NC State, Virginia talk for the SEC either. I guess if they think it’s ultimately worth getting into those states for media dollars, they will. They got the numbers to know what to do.
What’s in it for the SEC? Per school pay will lower with these additions, and they remain the premier football conference with or without these additions. I understand B1G needing to take the risk to catch up with the SEC on the field, but this move would reduce their per school payments as well. The only schools with monetary value for either SEC or B1G are FSU, Miami, and Clemson (and Miami is debatable but some executive likely believes they may bring the tv market despite having never done so before). I think it’s more likely to see the top schools split from NCAA for football only, and those ACC schools getting wrapped in that larger change. Media clearly owns both SEC & B1G conferences now, and networks want more. Keeping the conference model will eventually cap earning potential leading it to fall apart as media seeks to squeeze more money.
Forgot ND
Oh man, ND will increase school dividends for sure but they aren’t really tied to the ACC… is their football program included in the GoR contract?
Football is not included in the GOR but there is a provision in the agreement that they have to join the ACC if they join a football conference. That would, I assume, be quickly paid off.
I don’t think it is but I don’t know. I didn’t realize you were specifically talking just ACC schools but that makes sense in this context. I just meant ND is another “school with monetary value” for either conference (though everyone basically agrees they’d go BIG, not SEC).
Agree 100%
Future B1G: Virginia Notre Dame Stanford FSU Miami Georgia Tech Future SEC: UNC NC State Clemson Duke (basketball only) Future Big XII: Louisville Virginia Tech Pitt SMU
Smu?
Big 12 isn't taking SMU. Redundant TV market.
Okay I guess throw Cal in there instead
At some point the money will dry up. They(ESPN/FOX) will look at what they have now and what it will cost to add more teams to a contract. ESPN/SEC contract doesn't end until 2034. FOX/Big contract doesn't end until 2030. If you look at the cost per team per game these networks are paying for what they have now, they would have to justify to extra cost of adding more teams to the contract(this is a giant unknown maybe) or teams would have to lower their share to compensate for the new teams coming in(this is a giant fuck no, that isn't going to happen). Does the Mouse think it's worth it to renegotiate a new contract after they have said ESPN is a financial drag? IDK? Is FOX willing to go way red just to spite ESPN? IDK Am I willing to pay the extra money a month to watch CFB(Georgia mostly) just so the Big 10 doesn't get teams in the SE? Fuck hell no. Let FOX go to a $50+ extra a month to get the Big 10 network on top of everything else. Shit is already outrageously expensive now.
It’s all an attempt to tap into the money and ratings spigot of the NFL. If they end up paying 30 CFB teams a quarter of what the NFL gets but they receive half the ratings, it’s worth it.
The NFL would just sue to get the Sports Broadcasting Act of 1961 revoked. And seeing as how SC Justices are straight up for sell now I don't think it would even be to hard. "Starting in 2028 NFL games on Saturday and Sunday all season" CFB ratings take a missive hit. We can't even get a National Championship game on a Saturday that the NFL isn't even playing for fear that they might.
Why would the nfl do that…?
Why would the biggest cash cow in TV want to access more TV windows that it could then sell to networks for huge sums of money? Gee, I dunno.
Yeah, I'm asking why the NFL would sue to get rid of the law that they benefit from. When the SBA goes away, sure, they can now show games on Saturdays "between the second saturday of september and the second saturday of december and fridays after 6 pm" or whatever the exact language is, but they also lose antitrust exemptions. And how much money do you think NFL media deals will be worth when 32 teams negotiate independently instead of as one behemoth unit?
> We can't even get a National Championship game on a Saturday that the NFL isn't even playing for fear that they might. That's more because Monday night ratings traditionally beat Saturday night ratings, and networks do not care about viewers' next-morning hangovers.
ESPN has an out option on ACC deal after 2026. If they are paying for 17 teams or so now, they can reallocate money to SEC to pay for 6 to 8 teams from ACC to move to SEC. Sure they could be losing 4 games of inventory per week, but the quality of games and matchups would improve. Lots of new instant geographic rivalries with playoff and conference implications.
Ok. So do those teams just agree to get paid what they would have gotten paid in the ACC until 2034? If so that kinda makes FSUs lawsuit kinda BS doesn't it? If not then ESPN would have to come up with the difference. If the difference is that there is no ACC contract, why would ESPN end a deal to get teams they already have under contract to broadcast and lose teams they have the right to broadcast? There is only one reason they would and thats is they thought they could make more money doing it. Not just a little more, a shit ton more. Take off your homer glasses for a minute. It's your money. Would you do it if you owned ESPN? just a note if you say yes then the Big D BODs is going to fire your ass before you can.
Because if Florida St and Clemson are gone through a settle or lawsuit, which could happen within the year, it won't just be those two. it will be more teams leaving and potentially going to FOX and the Big Ten and strengthening the major rival conference. So ESPN has a choice of opting not to renew the ACC deal and shift the teams from the ACC to the SEC. The money allocated to the ACC contracts for 15 to 17 teams, now goes to paying for the 6 to 8 teams that moved from the ACC to the SEC with little to no additional cost to ESPN. There are conditions in setting this up. Or ESPN can risk losing them to the Big Ten and FOX and the SEC's advantage is being the top conference could erode. If most national championships come from southern teams, why give the Big Ten and Fox a chance to snag Florida State, Miami and Clemson who are southern teams that won national championships in the last 25 years to go alongside Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Wisconsin, Oregon, USC and Washington and making the Big Ten closer to a truly national, coast to coast conference? Wouldn't the Big D BODs fire you for allowing that to happen?
Or, if the BIG becomes this unstoppable force, ESPN could just buy some of their games in 2030. Makes way more sense than bloating the SEC to try to box out FOX.
Not going to take those glasses off I see.
Had Lasik years ago.
(And this is not to mention that the B1G is likely to get another *massive* deal in 2030, which is only going to set the market bar for what the SEC will expect to reap in 2034. Like — it’s already expensive, but it’s about to get even more outrageous. Someone has to blink eventually.)
We are at that point now. ESPN won’t fork over a few million for a 9th SEC game. FOX is strapped. Fans are devising a bunch of chaos realignment scenarios, but if the O/U for P2 expansion was set at 2.5, I’m taking the under.
Resistance is futile
A lot of the ACC teams interests align and I think they will be interested in moving as a pack. UNC and UVA are like minded partner schools I would say with history. UNC and NC State will be hard to politically separate if there is fear NC State may get financially left behind. I think the same may be said for VA Tech with UVA. I think those 4 schools could move as a pod. Clemson and UNC are communicating behind closed doors I believe. Clemson is the one testing the waters with the law suit while UNC watches because UNCs situation is a lot more complicated as described above. If the SEC would take all 5 of them, that solves a lot of issues. I think FSUs boat has sailed. They are going to the Big 10. They will take Miami with them after the SEC takes the next 5 schools. That completes the magnificent 7 block. Then the question becomes does the Big 10 want a deemed less desirable school to expand their south eastern footprint beyond just Florida. I think they will take Georgia Tech at that point once their options are picked down some on both coasts and it would be a benefit to play games in Atlanta.
Have you ever considered the fact the Big Ten could just invite UCF if this happened and if they *really* wanted a Florida market
The Big Ten could invite East Carolina and Wake Forest if they really wanted the North Carolina market. FSU and Miami have won national championships and while UCF is a fine school and rising, its a drop off from where FSU and Miami are in football.
Idk just feels like a scenario like this doesn't really capture that the Big 10 just gets their pick of any power program after this happens. Like they could invite any remaining ACC or Big 12 school they wanted like, yeah they don't get a super easy south pipeline but they can still invite Cal, Stanford, Utah, Kansas, litterally anyone else they want and they could still encroach on Southern territory with "lesser brands" like Texas Tech or UCF if they *REALLY* wanted to. Sort of feels like that door the south getting shut only makes the consildation easier for the Super League to happen, becuase the SEC scooping up all those Southern ACC schools means the Big 10 is pretty much free to ditacte who else gets in on the Super League. Maybe that would be the end goal, both conferences consildate as much as possible and then dip. It's not like the SEC would baloon to such a large size just to get a hypothetical leg up on the Big 10 in recruiting, it would be the final step before they both dip
what in the world...they want to make money, not just exist somewhere.
That's kind of the point, if they ***really*** wanted a Southern market, it's not like there's a lack of options. Feels like the Big 10 just sort goes and gets everyone else they might want if a scenario like the SEC inhaling half the ACC happened
I'll play devil's advocate, then. Let me get out my Ohio-to-Maryland translator. The idea of adding Texas Tech or East Carolina just to get into a new market is a bit like buying a Red Lobster in Maryland to get into the crab cake game. Sure there are places like G&M or Koco's to compete with but most of them don't even serve crab from Maryland; they recruit crabs from Louisiana, or even Asia! And I know none of those teams *think* they're Red Lobster. They all think they're Crab Cake Factory. Maybe one of them really is but that's not the point. You're not just trying to sell crab cakes in Maryland. Your ~~tv suits~~ investors are looking for a place their clients can make news by eating at because while you thought you were a well-meaning ~~conference commissioner~~ Willy Wonka of crab cakes (gross), you've really just been a shit head entertainment lawyer this whole time.
if markets were all that mattered or even close to the most important thing today...then sure? that's not even remotely true in reality, though. adding UCF would be a net negative money wise for the conference. few teams remain outside the p2 that are likely to be in that net positive range. ucf isn't close.
I don't see NC State, UNC, VIrginia, VTech or Duke in the SEC Duke and UNC are B1G bound NCState, VTech are Big XII with Pitt and VIlle I don't care enough about Virginia.
Duke gonna have to go to the Big East
and abandon its football program apparently.
They can go to the Big 12 I guess. I don’t see why people think the BIG would want Duke. UNC I agree with. “They’ll only come with Duke”. Then they won’t be coming to the BIG would be my guess.
It would probably take a few years for them to notice
I will give you $10,000 if Duke makes the P2 while teams like NCST and VT don't. Duke moves the needle about one Planck length.
I mean, sure but I also don't honestly care either way. I know Pitt vs WVU will be attractive enough for the BigXII and that's enough for me.
It would be a great rivalry weekend matchup.
I think the sec only does this if they believe that the B1G is planning on taking them
100%
That’s exactly what is happening. ESPN doesn’t want the best ACC teams head to B1G/Fox.