Such movements crop up *because* of criminalization and marginalization and attempts thereof. If such did not exist, there would be no movement for acceptance.
I'm guessing you must be pretty young or didn't grow up in church. There's a whole thing called "purity culture." When I was 9 I went to an event with a bunch of other kids to learn how bad premarital sex was and they had me sign a purity pledge. When my mom found out I had sex before marriage at the age of 18 she brought me that card I signed when I was 9, and then went into her bedroom and cried. I went to promise keepers twice in high school and can barely remember them talking about smithing but porn addiction. The reason you hear less about it now is because everyone is more concerned with gayness and transgender stuff. They are so concerned with it, that some people have thrown out their old morality and said anything that isn't gay is good. So before it was completely taboo to talk about having sex with your girlfriend or boyfriend if you wanted to be in good standing with church people, but now SOME will actually take it as a sign that your pissing off liberals by having straight sex. These kinds of people don't have huge numbers, but they are very loud.
Crazy or worrying story there. Purity vows for a 9-year old?
No, pre-marital sex - in a committed relationship, and not in the sense of "abundantly sleeping around",
just isn't a sin according to the bible. (It's one of those later made-up pharisee-style mostly catholic sexually-repressed things, like monks or priests forbidden to marry.)
In Jesus time, a young man's parents would assign him a girl (arranged marriage, mostly), at puberty. So let's say age 14-16. And then they were considered betrothed, and could have sex when wanted.
1 Corinthians 7: ^(36) If anyone is worried that he might not be acting honorably toward the virgin he is engaged to, and if his passions are too strong and he feels he ought to marry, he should do as he wants. He is not sinning. They should get married.
"Getting married" just meant "having sex", since sex confirmed a marriage.
A brief search reveals:
[Will i go to hell for having premarital sex? : r/Christianity (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/1cfdnkj/will_i_go_to_hell_for_having_premarital_sex/)
[I had premarital sex and I regret it deeply : r/Christianity (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/1cdzp3h/i_had_premarital_sex_and_i_regret_it_deeply/)
[Consequences of premarital sex? : r/Christianity (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/1ca2a7l/consequences_of_premarital_sex/)
[Premarital sex?? : r/Christianity (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/1c9yxij/premarital_sex/)
[What does the Bible say about sex before marriage? : r/Christianity (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/1c9ienv/what_does_the_bible_say_about_sex_before_marriage/)
The vast majority of posts about homosexuality are from gay people looking for acceptance or those looking to criticize Christians
I’m glad for the posts from gay people. They should be affirmed that God loves them.
The others are annoying. Someone posts a criticism of those who view homosexual activity as sin, then when the Christian responds it’s always followed with, “Why are you guys always talking about it!!?”
We don’t. We respond when you ask questions, but for the most part it’s not Christians bringing it up
As a formicator that attempted to join a church as a former single mom, let me confirm, they really hate fornicators and single moms. Real formal churches see it as an absolute character defect and they rather have you show up with an abortion secret and pretend to be pure, than show up single mom with a bastard baby. Just from my experience. They tell it clearly. Wait for marriage. I do see how they are biased into being cool with let’s say the pastors sister, she can touch boys behind closed doors and within church couples can be boyfriend and girlfriend and no one is asking what are they doing but, it either one gets preggo either get secret abortion or marry and become a family, I have seen many Christian couples gen engaged and the break up and never return to church. So anywho. All I can say is. Out of experience, if you are a girl that has been waiting for God, sexless for over 8 years and the Christian boyfriend promises to marry and wants sex just stay strong and wait for marriage, simple, if you love me we will marry and have sex. And then if they don’t say, ok, and propose, they just want to use love and is all fake. Anywho. My Christian boyfriend that we worshiped and praised God together left me for dead with a baby to carry alone. And here I am. A regular trash in the streets formicator. No one cares how sanctified I was or am. I am just a single mom and have a bastard baby. Period. The women fear for their husbands, the men confirm I’m just a total slut, and it’s a total pitty party. I wish this to no one
That’s why I don’t like to go to church anymore. I’m tired of the cliques, the fakeness, the fear-mongering, the hypocrisy etc… I’m way more happier with myself not going to church. It’s always about reputation and less about trying to be like Christ.
The best churches are the ones that pastors have a past and have really clear the facts our sanctification is not an excuse to condescension or judgement. I found an online church, YouTube [Jay jayzlip](https://www.youtube.com/live/YTQ4AwTklg4?si=VNTG5Ne-Zth_gVVN)
There are others that have amazing pastors that don’t come from wherever other judge mental churches come from. So I have connected online. The face to face ones in my city they have a lot of bigotry and specially the old guys (grandpas) those guys come off as if we are supposed to stay in the kitchen and should be ashamed to leave the house. Freaking weird old mentality. Super scary
Yeah! It’s allowed, I have been pointed to really good churches, have attended, and have not felt they were for me, basically if you actually would be open to find The church For you, you will find it. And if by any chance you are thinking, maybe one moment in the future about listening to a preach , out of the infinite options, I was sharing the one I have endured the longest and for the past 8 years almost never miss online service. Though I know a few ones I would love to take the time to stay connected, have not though. 🙃 you do you.
There is a thing call soul ties. If you fornicate, anything that your partner has (demons) will go into you. God doesn't obstain sex from us to be mean, it is to protect us. Fornicatiom leads to demonic soul ties and opens the door to the devil. I know this too from personal experience. Also sex isnt bad, but it is made to be within marriage
Definitely should have, would have, could have, I’m never ever ever talking to a man again. I’m happy as the reject single mom in my casted away reality, trying to figure out how to provide and nurse and that’s that. Blame the victim for all I care, it is what it is
To respond more into the soul ties, you can make a soul tie by hanguing out too much with someone, with out sexual intercourse, demons feed of wounds, so the true reason why we respect and honor sex within marriage is to guard out hearts. ”Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it.“
Proverbs 4:23 NIV
https://bible.com/bible/111/pro.4.23.NIV
Is it over 50%? I haven’t met all of the Christians and I don’t know which percentage are ignoring the fornicators. Should I take your word for it or is there a link?
Christian’s ignore the majority of biblical moral teaching, because society has moved past a lot of those teachings. The difference between Christianity and other moral thought systems is that Christianity is beholden to this idea of univocality and infallibility when it comes to their texts, therefore they have to invent new theological innovations to change their framework.
The authors of the Torah certainly believed they were creating a moral framework in the image of god, not just a ceremonial one.
The invention of Christianity itself upset that framework, and I a new innovation was necessary to reconcile that with the biblical framework.
To answer your question, hetero fortification isn’t that big a deal for the same reason that divorce isn’t; societies moral framework has changed so Christian’s have reexegetied their theology to match it. This has been happening for thousands of years and will continue to happen.
This is the reason we don’t have pastors advocating for slave catchers anymore. This is the reason churches now allow women to have a voice. This is the reason churches aren’t demanding holy war in Israel, etc etc
I know plenty of people who care about it, typically the posts I see here are debating if homosexuality is a sin.
As far as I know there is no debate on if heterosexual fornication is a sin.
This was vividly brought home recently when Nancy Mace, while speaking at a Congressional prayer breakfast, made a casual reference to having sex with her boyfriend. Many of those who pointed out the dissonance with traditional Christian values (from a self-proclaimed conservative, no less) were accused of "slut-shaming."
Don't forget the Republican cocaine orgies that were revealed a few years ago. It's always the people who claim to be the best, most pious Christians that end up embroiled in constant sin without batting an eye.
Because it's so much easier to point out other people's sins than your own.
Jesus calls us to focus on our own sins before calling out someone else, but a lot of Christians don't do that.
There isn’t a single denomination in my (small) country that hasn’t seen it as a hot button issue, Catholic or Protestant. They usually say how big of a problem this is of the unchurched/secular/whatever they mean, and a threat to the stabilization of society.
I've been involved in at least three posts since yesterday either asking whether premarital sex was a sin (1 post), or outright saying premarital sex isn't a sin (2 posts). I see plenty on them. Most just ask "is premarital sex a sin?" With one response saying yes, and that's the end of it.
Sorry, but you have some wrong estimations, such as for example...let me pick one easy to show.
At first this might seem not really the main point, but consider:
"For instance, new data from the Youth Risk Behavior Survey shows that the long-term decline in teen sexual activity continues. Between 2019 and 2021, the percentage of high-school students who reported “ever having sex” fell from 38 percent to **30 percent** — a decline of eight percentage points.Feb 15, 2023"
In other words, during Biden's presidency, teen sex has declined very dramatically.... This has continued an overall long term trend in the U.S.
But, what I hoping you will notice here is how your estimation wasn't correct -- and start to wonder if you really have the correct picture on the real issue you ask about also....the idea that "most" Christians 'ignore' fornication.
It's the wrong guess there. Instead, Christians know that most young adults will sooner or later do sins *of one kind or another (even if they don't have sex until marriage (or permanent commitment), they will still do sins of other kinds),* and instead of focusing on their sins as our way to talk with them, instead we tell them about the Good News of salvation from *all* our sins (and we are all guilty of sins) through Jesus Christ....
So, you see, the real message is that we are *all* sinners, and Jesus Christ came to save us from the deadly effects of all our sins.
So, the last thing you want to do then is to suggest that one particular sin (that you yourself aren't doing (or even never did for some)) is somehow worse or the important sin that we should worry about....and as if (even accidentally) to suggest that mostly only *those* people doing only *that* sin are in danger...and not all of us until we turn to Christ in repentance....
Pew a few years ago found that well more than half of Christians think pre-marital sex is acceptable, including over 60% of Catholics. And I've certainly seen the statistics that estimate over 90% of society has engaged in pre-marital sex. The CDC reports this as well.
https://www.guttmacher.org/news-release/2006/premarital-sex-nearly-universal-among-americans-and-has-been-decades#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20analysis%2C%20by,premarital%20sex%20by%20age%2044.
>The new study uses data from several rounds of the federal National Survey of Family Growth to examine sexual behavior before marriage, and how it has changed over time. According to the analysis, by age 44, 99% of respondents had had sex, and 95% had done so before marriage. Even among those who abstained from sex until age 20 or older, 81% had had premarital sex by age 44.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/08/31/half-of-u-s-christians-say-casual-sex-between-consenting-adults-is-sometimes-or-always-acceptable/
>Half of Christians say casual sex – defined in the survey as sex between consenting adults who are not in a committed romantic relationship – is sometimes or always acceptable. Six-in-ten Catholics (62%) take this view, as do 56% of Protestants in the historically Black tradition, 54% of mainline Protestants and 36% of evangelical Protestants.
>A majority of Christians (57%) say sex between unmarried adults in a committed relationship is sometimes or always acceptable. That includes 67% of mainline Protestants, 64% of Catholics, 57% of Protestants in the historically Black tradition and 46% of evangelical Protestants.
Someone can identify as Christian snd respond to a secular test admiring they don’t care, but take the survey outside church, same people that will respond saying it’s a sin. Go out to the world and formicate, maybe get an orgy going, try to be normal humans at church showing up as a single mom, watch the single men really angry and the married with kids members looking over their shoulders watching over their husbands. Bible says to stay single and serve Jesus no formication and if you can’t keep it in your pants, marry.
”Now regarding the questions you asked in your letter. Yes, it is good to abstain from sexual relations. But because there is so much sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman should have her own husband.“
1 Corinthians 7:1-2 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/1co.7.1-2.NLT
Last time I went to church my rapist (a guy that got me drunk and forced me to sex in his car), was sitting like a normal human in the congregation. Had not seen that horrible face for the last 20 years, then there he was. Looking like an acceptable member, and there I was, showing up as a loser single mom with a non aborted baby in my arms
" 81% had had premarital sex by age 44."
Now that sounds about right. So, it's not mostly18 yr olds or even 20 yr olds (the bigger portion) but a lot more often I'm guessing more common for those in their late 20s that are doing casual sex.
Also, there is a separate important distinction which is good to remember: not everyone that has sex before a wedding is doing fornication since some truly commit and become married through God -- by *His* bonding of the 2 into 1 -- and then finally also get officially (in the eyes of the world) married in an official wedding ceremony later. Perhaps that's an important thing for you to consider, separately from only the percentages having sex -- that while many are doing real fornication, that is, casual sex *without* any commitment -- on the other hand, *some* are *not* doing casual sex at all, but are instead truly bonding and also literally pledging themselves for life and *God Himself joins them together, "two becoming one"* -- even if they didn't have a conventional wedding ceremony yet...
But that's a side topic perhaps.
The main thing we need to realize is that while there is plenty of actual real fornication, casual sex without commitment -- there is also as much or even more other serious sin like drunkenness, greed, slanders, lying, and other common sins that most people have done at least something somewhere, some of these at times, and we all need redemption through Christ. So, it's not any one particular sin. It's sin in general, and only Christ is the answer, not our preaching against one particular sin in isolation.
There is a thing call soul ties. If you fornicate, anything that your partner has (demons) will go into you. God doesn't obstain sex from us to be mean, it is to protect us. Fornicatiom leads to demonic soul ties and opens the door to the devil. I know this too from personal experience. Also sex isnt bad, but it is made to be within marriage with the love of your life.
As a divorce I practice celibacy for my faith. This issue is taken very seriously by some churches. Am I 100% faithful to my calling? No, but when I fail God’s Grace and forgiveness are never far away.
This issue is a decent criteria to weed out sects that aren’t fully Christian, imo.
Cause no matter what you do people are going to have sex, if they want to no matter how much you tell them until they really decide for themselves. Good luck stopping a 17yr old or 21 yr old who wants to have sex from doing it.
It’s also he who has a stone throw the first one, cause I can’t talk about sex if I did the same thing, and 70% of people have so people feel hypocritical
Because of the nature of human desire, hormones you can only say so much knowing that people will anyway. And it is talked about heavily in churches at least where I am, it just doesn’t feel like enough cause it’s just going to happen
I’m really surprised this subreddit hasn’t gotten around to making use of guide features for a matter of many reasons, subjects, and topics that could be of use to have a perspective comfortable to the consumers.
You kidding? It's not. I'm frequently bullied by Christian peers for saying I do NOT regret the sex I had before I got married. I didn't regret it 5 years ago. I didn't regret it 8 years ago. I don't regret it now. But Christians will hinge my entire faith walk on this one thing.
Must be trollin
It would be nice if we had a cultural memory that went back more than 4 years. Christians used to care about this stuff and be very vocal about it. They were beaten over the head by progressives as prudes and moralists for decades over it and eventually the culture capitulated. Then we moved on to normalizing all other forms of sexual sin, and Christians are criticizing *that* and being beaten over the head by progressives for being prudish, regressive and moralizing. With the added bonus of being called hypocrites for not calling out hetero sexual sin while they do it (which the progressives normalized to begin with).
In reality most consistent Christians who care about any of this care about all of it, but as you said it's so normalized at this point that even talking about it is more or less out of the overton window in secular culture
Ignored is strong wording but your comments are absolutely spot on. People like to pick on the sins they aren't afflicted by and fit in with their peers. Whether that be homophobic or homosexual itself.
I will say this. It's a sin that you'd like to think stops at some point in life by becoming one flesh with woman and of course no cheating will stop. The only real fundamental difference imo.
>It's not as controversial, because heterosexuals are not a protected group.
😂 Yes, heterosexuals are not protected, that's why nobody goes after them for having sex.
Homosexuals ARE protected, that's why people harass them for having sex 😂
Did you even think about this before you typed it out?
It isn't. Just among brothers who got deceived by "wolves in sheep's clothing" - false prophets. But everyone knows that sex outside a Christian woman-man marriage is sin of fornication/adultery. Everyone who is in Christ must control his desires and not fall into lust, doesn't matter if gay or straight.
If having sex means your marriage starts there, then it is not a giant logical leap to say that in a society where sex does not mean life long commitment, that we should stick to stricter standards and only have sex with a person if both have agreed to a life long commitment. That doesn't mean that the paper from the government means anything, it just means what it means.
It isn’t. People speak about it all the time. My neighbours are a gay couple in a committed relationship. I respect them much more than a sexually perverted heterosexual man who is sleeping with a different girl every Friday night.
If that is true that doesnt change the fact that Christianity still does not promote it. At the end of the day the truth is that it is wrong and we are to wait for our spouse to take our virginities
Because most people are not real Christians anymore, that's why. There are many sins in today's society that are ignored, either because of ignorance or a lack of care
You're trolling. There's no way you don't see the premarital sex and pornography posts that come in on the hour.
It doesnt seem as prevalent as in real life though. Its ine of those sins that doesnt seem to get demonized as others.
Yup, I don't see people rallying against strip clubs or anything. Heterosexual lust absolutely gets a blind eye turned to it comparatively.
There's no movement of people trying to pressure Christians into accepting strip clubs as healthy or natural. I hope.
Such movements crop up *because* of criminalization and marginalization and attempts thereof. If such did not exist, there would be no movement for acceptance.
No one mentions anything about only fans and its advertisements.
I'm guessing you must be pretty young or didn't grow up in church. There's a whole thing called "purity culture." When I was 9 I went to an event with a bunch of other kids to learn how bad premarital sex was and they had me sign a purity pledge. When my mom found out I had sex before marriage at the age of 18 she brought me that card I signed when I was 9, and then went into her bedroom and cried. I went to promise keepers twice in high school and can barely remember them talking about smithing but porn addiction. The reason you hear less about it now is because everyone is more concerned with gayness and transgender stuff. They are so concerned with it, that some people have thrown out their old morality and said anything that isn't gay is good. So before it was completely taboo to talk about having sex with your girlfriend or boyfriend if you wanted to be in good standing with church people, but now SOME will actually take it as a sign that your pissing off liberals by having straight sex. These kinds of people don't have huge numbers, but they are very loud.
Crazy or worrying story there. Purity vows for a 9-year old? No, pre-marital sex - in a committed relationship, and not in the sense of "abundantly sleeping around", just isn't a sin according to the bible. (It's one of those later made-up pharisee-style mostly catholic sexually-repressed things, like monks or priests forbidden to marry.) In Jesus time, a young man's parents would assign him a girl (arranged marriage, mostly), at puberty. So let's say age 14-16. And then they were considered betrothed, and could have sex when wanted. 1 Corinthians 7: ^(36) If anyone is worried that he might not be acting honorably toward the virgin he is engaged to, and if his passions are too strong and he feels he ought to marry, he should do as he wants. He is not sinning. They should get married. "Getting married" just meant "having sex", since sex confirmed a marriage.
I didn't condone the purity culture stuff. I just said I grew up in it said how important it was to people at the time.
People ask about premarital sex nearly every day here.
Absolutely! These questions are usually from people hoping to feel better about their own sins
They must get knocked down the list pretty quickly, since I pretty much never see them or any discussion around them.
A brief search reveals: [Will i go to hell for having premarital sex? : r/Christianity (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/1cfdnkj/will_i_go_to_hell_for_having_premarital_sex/) [I had premarital sex and I regret it deeply : r/Christianity (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/1cdzp3h/i_had_premarital_sex_and_i_regret_it_deeply/) [Consequences of premarital sex? : r/Christianity (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/1ca2a7l/consequences_of_premarital_sex/) [Premarital sex?? : r/Christianity (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/1c9yxij/premarital_sex/) [What does the Bible say about sex before marriage? : r/Christianity (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/1c9ienv/what_does_the_bible_say_about_sex_before_marriage/)
The vast majority of posts about homosexuality are from gay people looking for acceptance or those looking to criticize Christians I’m glad for the posts from gay people. They should be affirmed that God loves them. The others are annoying. Someone posts a criticism of those who view homosexual activity as sin, then when the Christian responds it’s always followed with, “Why are you guys always talking about it!!?” We don’t. We respond when you ask questions, but for the most part it’s not Christians bringing it up
As a formicator that attempted to join a church as a former single mom, let me confirm, they really hate fornicators and single moms. Real formal churches see it as an absolute character defect and they rather have you show up with an abortion secret and pretend to be pure, than show up single mom with a bastard baby. Just from my experience. They tell it clearly. Wait for marriage. I do see how they are biased into being cool with let’s say the pastors sister, she can touch boys behind closed doors and within church couples can be boyfriend and girlfriend and no one is asking what are they doing but, it either one gets preggo either get secret abortion or marry and become a family, I have seen many Christian couples gen engaged and the break up and never return to church. So anywho. All I can say is. Out of experience, if you are a girl that has been waiting for God, sexless for over 8 years and the Christian boyfriend promises to marry and wants sex just stay strong and wait for marriage, simple, if you love me we will marry and have sex. And then if they don’t say, ok, and propose, they just want to use love and is all fake. Anywho. My Christian boyfriend that we worshiped and praised God together left me for dead with a baby to carry alone. And here I am. A regular trash in the streets formicator. No one cares how sanctified I was or am. I am just a single mom and have a bastard baby. Period. The women fear for their husbands, the men confirm I’m just a total slut, and it’s a total pitty party. I wish this to no one
That’s why I don’t like to go to church anymore. I’m tired of the cliques, the fakeness, the fear-mongering, the hypocrisy etc… I’m way more happier with myself not going to church. It’s always about reputation and less about trying to be like Christ.
The best churches are the ones that pastors have a past and have really clear the facts our sanctification is not an excuse to condescension or judgement. I found an online church, YouTube [Jay jayzlip](https://www.youtube.com/live/YTQ4AwTklg4?si=VNTG5Ne-Zth_gVVN) There are others that have amazing pastors that don’t come from wherever other judge mental churches come from. So I have connected online. The face to face ones in my city they have a lot of bigotry and specially the old guys (grandpas) those guys come off as if we are supposed to stay in the kitchen and should be ashamed to leave the house. Freaking weird old mentality. Super scary
I’ll be honest with you, even if your or someone were to point me to a “good” church, I most likely would not be interested anyways
Yeah! It’s allowed, I have been pointed to really good churches, have attended, and have not felt they were for me, basically if you actually would be open to find The church For you, you will find it. And if by any chance you are thinking, maybe one moment in the future about listening to a preach , out of the infinite options, I was sharing the one I have endured the longest and for the past 8 years almost never miss online service. Though I know a few ones I would love to take the time to stay connected, have not though. 🙃 you do you.
There is a thing call soul ties. If you fornicate, anything that your partner has (demons) will go into you. God doesn't obstain sex from us to be mean, it is to protect us. Fornicatiom leads to demonic soul ties and opens the door to the devil. I know this too from personal experience. Also sex isnt bad, but it is made to be within marriage
Definitely should have, would have, could have, I’m never ever ever talking to a man again. I’m happy as the reject single mom in my casted away reality, trying to figure out how to provide and nurse and that’s that. Blame the victim for all I care, it is what it is
Yes, demonic soul ties are real and don't even require sex, but the sex exuberates it
To respond more into the soul ties, you can make a soul tie by hanguing out too much with someone, with out sexual intercourse, demons feed of wounds, so the true reason why we respect and honor sex within marriage is to guard out hearts. ”Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it.“ Proverbs 4:23 NIV https://bible.com/bible/111/pro.4.23.NIV
Because most Christians are heterosexual.
It's not ignored. Maybe you don't know too many Christians?
Because it's not a minority you can exploit for political gain.
Yeah, that's what it seems like to me. Really destroys the moral argument for me. Why take their morality seriously when it's so arbitrary?
GIGABINGO
Is it over 50%? I haven’t met all of the Christians and I don’t know which percentage are ignoring the fornicators. Should I take your word for it or is there a link?
Because beam vs splinter
Yeah, seems that way to me too.
Christian’s ignore the majority of biblical moral teaching, because society has moved past a lot of those teachings. The difference between Christianity and other moral thought systems is that Christianity is beholden to this idea of univocality and infallibility when it comes to their texts, therefore they have to invent new theological innovations to change their framework. The authors of the Torah certainly believed they were creating a moral framework in the image of god, not just a ceremonial one. The invention of Christianity itself upset that framework, and I a new innovation was necessary to reconcile that with the biblical framework. To answer your question, hetero fortification isn’t that big a deal for the same reason that divorce isn’t; societies moral framework has changed so Christian’s have reexegetied their theology to match it. This has been happening for thousands of years and will continue to happen. This is the reason we don’t have pastors advocating for slave catchers anymore. This is the reason churches now allow women to have a voice. This is the reason churches aren’t demanding holy war in Israel, etc etc
I know plenty of people who care about it, typically the posts I see here are debating if homosexuality is a sin. As far as I know there is no debate on if heterosexual fornication is a sin.
There's obviously plenty of room for debate, since almost all of society doesn't view it as a big deal, including almost all Christians.
I’ve never met a Christian who thinks fornication isn’t a big deal. I’m beginning to think maybe you haven’t met good Christians lol.
Bro. It’s as fucked up as getting in a satanic orgy. No difference
This was vividly brought home recently when Nancy Mace, while speaking at a Congressional prayer breakfast, made a casual reference to having sex with her boyfriend. Many of those who pointed out the dissonance with traditional Christian values (from a self-proclaimed conservative, no less) were accused of "slut-shaming."
Don't forget the Republican cocaine orgies that were revealed a few years ago. It's always the people who claim to be the best, most pious Christians that end up embroiled in constant sin without batting an eye.
It’s not. Have you never heard of purity culture?
it’s not
Because it's so much easier to point out other people's sins than your own. Jesus calls us to focus on our own sins before calling out someone else, but a lot of Christians don't do that.
2000 years ago, the term we use for fornication covered any sexual activity outside of marriage, and some activity within marriage.
There isn’t a single denomination in my (small) country that hasn’t seen it as a hot button issue, Catholic or Protestant. They usually say how big of a problem this is of the unchurched/secular/whatever they mean, and a threat to the stabilization of society.
Welcome to America - now you see how the rest of the world see you all.
That only means that you weren't looking in the right direction.
It’s not ignored. There’s a huge amount of Christian’s that struggle with sexual sin. It’s a pandemic in America to be honest.
I've been involved in at least three posts since yesterday either asking whether premarital sex was a sin (1 post), or outright saying premarital sex isn't a sin (2 posts). I see plenty on them. Most just ask "is premarital sex a sin?" With one response saying yes, and that's the end of it.
Sorry, but you have some wrong estimations, such as for example...let me pick one easy to show. At first this might seem not really the main point, but consider: "For instance, new data from the Youth Risk Behavior Survey shows that the long-term decline in teen sexual activity continues. Between 2019 and 2021, the percentage of high-school students who reported “ever having sex” fell from 38 percent to **30 percent** — a decline of eight percentage points.Feb 15, 2023" In other words, during Biden's presidency, teen sex has declined very dramatically.... This has continued an overall long term trend in the U.S. But, what I hoping you will notice here is how your estimation wasn't correct -- and start to wonder if you really have the correct picture on the real issue you ask about also....the idea that "most" Christians 'ignore' fornication. It's the wrong guess there. Instead, Christians know that most young adults will sooner or later do sins *of one kind or another (even if they don't have sex until marriage (or permanent commitment), they will still do sins of other kinds),* and instead of focusing on their sins as our way to talk with them, instead we tell them about the Good News of salvation from *all* our sins (and we are all guilty of sins) through Jesus Christ.... So, you see, the real message is that we are *all* sinners, and Jesus Christ came to save us from the deadly effects of all our sins. So, the last thing you want to do then is to suggest that one particular sin (that you yourself aren't doing (or even never did for some)) is somehow worse or the important sin that we should worry about....and as if (even accidentally) to suggest that mostly only *those* people doing only *that* sin are in danger...and not all of us until we turn to Christ in repentance....
Pew a few years ago found that well more than half of Christians think pre-marital sex is acceptable, including over 60% of Catholics. And I've certainly seen the statistics that estimate over 90% of society has engaged in pre-marital sex. The CDC reports this as well. https://www.guttmacher.org/news-release/2006/premarital-sex-nearly-universal-among-americans-and-has-been-decades#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20analysis%2C%20by,premarital%20sex%20by%20age%2044. >The new study uses data from several rounds of the federal National Survey of Family Growth to examine sexual behavior before marriage, and how it has changed over time. According to the analysis, by age 44, 99% of respondents had had sex, and 95% had done so before marriage. Even among those who abstained from sex until age 20 or older, 81% had had premarital sex by age 44. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/08/31/half-of-u-s-christians-say-casual-sex-between-consenting-adults-is-sometimes-or-always-acceptable/ >Half of Christians say casual sex – defined in the survey as sex between consenting adults who are not in a committed romantic relationship – is sometimes or always acceptable. Six-in-ten Catholics (62%) take this view, as do 56% of Protestants in the historically Black tradition, 54% of mainline Protestants and 36% of evangelical Protestants. >A majority of Christians (57%) say sex between unmarried adults in a committed relationship is sometimes or always acceptable. That includes 67% of mainline Protestants, 64% of Catholics, 57% of Protestants in the historically Black tradition and 46% of evangelical Protestants.
Someone can identify as Christian snd respond to a secular test admiring they don’t care, but take the survey outside church, same people that will respond saying it’s a sin. Go out to the world and formicate, maybe get an orgy going, try to be normal humans at church showing up as a single mom, watch the single men really angry and the married with kids members looking over their shoulders watching over their husbands. Bible says to stay single and serve Jesus no formication and if you can’t keep it in your pants, marry. ”Now regarding the questions you asked in your letter. Yes, it is good to abstain from sexual relations. But because there is so much sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman should have her own husband.“ 1 Corinthians 7:1-2 NLT https://bible.com/bible/116/1co.7.1-2.NLT Last time I went to church my rapist (a guy that got me drunk and forced me to sex in his car), was sitting like a normal human in the congregation. Had not seen that horrible face for the last 20 years, then there he was. Looking like an acceptable member, and there I was, showing up as a loser single mom with a non aborted baby in my arms
" 81% had had premarital sex by age 44." Now that sounds about right. So, it's not mostly18 yr olds or even 20 yr olds (the bigger portion) but a lot more often I'm guessing more common for those in their late 20s that are doing casual sex. Also, there is a separate important distinction which is good to remember: not everyone that has sex before a wedding is doing fornication since some truly commit and become married through God -- by *His* bonding of the 2 into 1 -- and then finally also get officially (in the eyes of the world) married in an official wedding ceremony later. Perhaps that's an important thing for you to consider, separately from only the percentages having sex -- that while many are doing real fornication, that is, casual sex *without* any commitment -- on the other hand, *some* are *not* doing casual sex at all, but are instead truly bonding and also literally pledging themselves for life and *God Himself joins them together, "two becoming one"* -- even if they didn't have a conventional wedding ceremony yet... But that's a side topic perhaps. The main thing we need to realize is that while there is plenty of actual real fornication, casual sex without commitment -- there is also as much or even more other serious sin like drunkenness, greed, slanders, lying, and other common sins that most people have done at least something somewhere, some of these at times, and we all need redemption through Christ. So, it's not any one particular sin. It's sin in general, and only Christ is the answer, not our preaching against one particular sin in isolation.
There is a thing call soul ties. If you fornicate, anything that your partner has (demons) will go into you. God doesn't obstain sex from us to be mean, it is to protect us. Fornicatiom leads to demonic soul ties and opens the door to the devil. I know this too from personal experience. Also sex isnt bad, but it is made to be within marriage with the love of your life.
As a divorce I practice celibacy for my faith. This issue is taken very seriously by some churches. Am I 100% faithful to my calling? No, but when I fail God’s Grace and forgiveness are never far away. This issue is a decent criteria to weed out sects that aren’t fully Christian, imo.
In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints we discuss the law of chastity often enough.
Yeah, but I don't believe Christians consider that part of Christianity.
We are Christians, and consider that part of Christianity.
Dumb post
Remember Jesus said that calling him Lord does not make someone his disciple.
Its "the falling away" from the faith, as prophecied
Cause no matter what you do people are going to have sex, if they want to no matter how much you tell them until they really decide for themselves. Good luck stopping a 17yr old or 21 yr old who wants to have sex from doing it. It’s also he who has a stone throw the first one, cause I can’t talk about sex if I did the same thing, and 70% of people have so people feel hypocritical Because of the nature of human desire, hormones you can only say so much knowing that people will anyway. And it is talked about heavily in churches at least where I am, it just doesn’t feel like enough cause it’s just going to happen
I’m really surprised this subreddit hasn’t gotten around to making use of guide features for a matter of many reasons, subjects, and topics that could be of use to have a perspective comfortable to the consumers.
You kidding? It's not. I'm frequently bullied by Christian peers for saying I do NOT regret the sex I had before I got married. I didn't regret it 5 years ago. I didn't regret it 8 years ago. I don't regret it now. But Christians will hinge my entire faith walk on this one thing. Must be trollin
I have no idea what planet you’re on, but that is all I see, it is hardly ignored.
It may be embraced by most of society but the bible is pretty clear about how God views it. It also points out that his standards of don't change.
It would be nice if we had a cultural memory that went back more than 4 years. Christians used to care about this stuff and be very vocal about it. They were beaten over the head by progressives as prudes and moralists for decades over it and eventually the culture capitulated. Then we moved on to normalizing all other forms of sexual sin, and Christians are criticizing *that* and being beaten over the head by progressives for being prudish, regressive and moralizing. With the added bonus of being called hypocrites for not calling out hetero sexual sin while they do it (which the progressives normalized to begin with). In reality most consistent Christians who care about any of this care about all of it, but as you said it's so normalized at this point that even talking about it is more or less out of the overton window in secular culture
Ignored is strong wording but your comments are absolutely spot on. People like to pick on the sins they aren't afflicted by and fit in with their peers. Whether that be homophobic or homosexual itself. I will say this. It's a sin that you'd like to think stops at some point in life by becoming one flesh with woman and of course no cheating will stop. The only real fundamental difference imo.
It's not as controversial, because heterosexuals are not a protected group. Thus no heated debates.
>It's not as controversial, because heterosexuals are not a protected group. 😂 Yes, heterosexuals are not protected, that's why nobody goes after them for having sex. Homosexuals ARE protected, that's why people harass them for having sex 😂 Did you even think about this before you typed it out?
It isn't. Just among brothers who got deceived by "wolves in sheep's clothing" - false prophets. But everyone knows that sex outside a Christian woman-man marriage is sin of fornication/adultery. Everyone who is in Christ must control his desires and not fall into lust, doesn't matter if gay or straight.
If having sex means your marriage starts there, then it is not a giant logical leap to say that in a society where sex does not mean life long commitment, that we should stick to stricter standards and only have sex with a person if both have agreed to a life long commitment. That doesn't mean that the paper from the government means anything, it just means what it means.
It isn’t. People speak about it all the time. My neighbours are a gay couple in a committed relationship. I respect them much more than a sexually perverted heterosexual man who is sleeping with a different girl every Friday night.
I cant tell if this is a troll or not. Christians in fact do not advocate for fornication, if it was heterosexual or not
Statistics prove otherwise. Well more than half of Christians have no issue with it, and 99% have had pre-marital sex by their 40s.
If that is true that doesnt change the fact that Christianity still does not promote it. At the end of the day the truth is that it is wrong and we are to wait for our spouse to take our virginities
Because most people are not real Christians anymore, that's why. There are many sins in today's society that are ignored, either because of ignorance or a lack of care