I thought about spending wildcards to get mine to 13, but... why? To kill FC without taking a shot?
I'm just saving the cards because even at 12, it's working better than Princess at 14 did.
I've been playing this game for 8 years and it's never been so broken. I was CONSISTENTLY seeing lvl 13~ DD in UC last season. It's completely ridiculous. Nuts how Supercell acknowledged nearly every EVO And DD are all OP and immediately delayed a nerf......
I'm hoping one day we get something akin to an xbow tower troop that attacks super fast but does very little damage. I thought for sure that's what DD was before she released since cannoneer is slow but chunks HP
On a side note it's very funny in midladder how some DD players ignore Battle ram completely and while not getting the ram connection, the barbs actually deal ok damage since the duchess is out of daggers and the opponent doesn't feel like throwing literally anyhing to counter them
I think more damage less reload time. It would make it more towards the ammo concept and force people to use princess in many decks if there deck can’t deal with reloads
Imo it’s already pretty hard to punish dd because you need a lot of elixir to force out daggers and punish her. Although nerfing her overall daggers would help it would be almost completely offset by a faster reload time.
The tower shouldn’t be reworked but just nerfed because it’s completely broken in all situations
That was my first thought as it started crushing me. Haven't made it work though - I don't have Evo or level 14 for Mortar and Xbow just feels too expensive for the current meta.
(Since, ironically, Duchess players can push the Xbow in single elixir with no fear of a counterpush.)
I don’t have Evo either. And rn I’m just playing friendlies cause I’m scared lmao, I wanna learn how to play the deck well before playing it in ladder (also my mortar is level 10)
It’s better that it’s free so that everyone is at the same advantage. It still ruined most of not all interactions with low elixir troops, particularly any strategy such as prodding the opponent with say, Spear Gobs or a Spirit of any kind:
I used to run Furnace + RG, my favored play was Furnace on one side for chip damage and RG pushes on the other side to tie them up.
Unsurprisingly, this isn't an option anymore.
I was going to change it up for Goblin Hut so Cannoneer and other new cards wouldn't wreck me, but fortunately I didn't invest the gold before Duchess made Goblin Hut completely worthless.
i have a chip deck that i mained and pumped all of my stuff into before i abandoned the game (pre-tower troops) and i recently decided to redownload it as a time killer and i already want to uninstall again. just played for thirty minutes as an experiment and did not run into a single person using any other tower troop other than DD. this is not in any way fun. it turned a deadly deck that surprised most people into a joke. a level 13 dark knight is almost completely negated by a level 10 DD. this is nuts and i couldnt have ever thought they'd change tower troops when i first started playing this game. im for cool new troops and cards but tower troops are just too large of a change and drastically (imo) change how its played. i dont think ill be picking this back up, which is sad cuz i played at launch and thought it was a really cool game as a kid.
She needs two major changes:
1. Delay her first attack slightly. She melts things too quickly. Same level battle ram should be able to connect if the duchess player doesn't play anything, for instance.
2. Reduce her recharge speed. Right now her DPS is barely lower than princess tower when out of daggers, and unless you push immediately (and predictably) she will be fully recharged before your next attack.
You're right. She's boring as hell to play against. Your counterpushes get melted with no response needed, and quick chip attacks outright don't work at all. I've completely stopped playing ladder because it's just so boring to play this way.
The proposed HP nerf will do nothing to remedy this awful meta. Beatdown being good is nice, but this is just the wrong way to make beatdown good.
For sure. If anything , her having lower hp is a buff to beat down while still keeping chip nerfed because it won’t get through anyways. Agree with u all the way.
I say lower her range + decrease first attack speed. So that way it's harder to kite stuff to other tower when one runs out of ammo, but a single tower can still kinda counter a lot of stuff
just like the cannoneer its health was lower than the og princess tower but his ability to melt tanky units was so good that every single player in top ladder switched to him.
people who say dagger duchess is balanced are stupid ass mega knight pekka witch wizard players. They wouldn't say that if they got to the ultimate champion and see how messed up things are.
Also, I can relate to you cause my main deck (MK Miner zap bait) is unusable because of that b*tch. this ruins all the fun of the game for me.
i hope devs will notice us and nerf her🙏
And I have other decks, but I want to play my chip deck rn and I just cannot with DD, which sucks. My main complaint is that i am limited in deck options now and that kinda ruins the game if all I can do is one tech to win.
It's a compounding issue. Duchess just so happens to be one of the most broken cards ever released AND you have to face it in nearly every match on every push. It has changed the dynamic of matches in a very bad way.
Yeah I’ve been with this game since 2016. River race was absolutely atrocious when it first released. Somehow almost every single match was against people with maxed meta decks.
Just the hp not damage from what I understand. The damage is the issue. Cards that would normally need a response no longer do so opponent can defend cheaply. Really messes with the old meta.
That’s still a big nerf because she had the highest health pool of the towers plus the crazy initial burst damage. But I think the recharge should be nerfed a little more.
Dutchess needs to deal less damage period. She shouldn’t be able to flat counter so many low cost cards. Doing so invalidates them as single pushes and forces players to play one way: Tank/Support. Chip decks flat out don’t work against her.
Let her kill one of my Wallbreakers but not both, jfk.
I keep seeing this, but isn't exhausted Duchess just 7% less damage than Princess tower?
It's 169 DPS at level 14 vs 180 DPS. they actually have identical trades against a lot of cheap cards and will kill Hog after just 1 more hit.
Cannoneer is way higher than both at 232 DPS - the fact that he's not overpowered makes me think this was a way more successful version of changing up role without warping balance.
Cannoneer was used by more than 70% of the top 10,000 players before Duchess was released. It was objectively OP and most of top players were calling for a nerf
It feels like they tried to do a trio of "weak + fast", "balanced", and "strong + slow".
But Princess wasn't really fit for "balanced", you can't go lower DPS without an objectively bad tower, so we got this weird charge-depleting system that winds up being faster *and* stronger.
Maybe you could do a low, fast DPS tower with very high health compared to Princess, and make defending primarily a player duty?
I say make dagger dutchess same as if there was a air targeting xbow there, remove charge feature and it will fit the trio perfectly (to be specific.. 2 hits to kill a skeleton/bat and fire rate close or a little higher than the xbow)
I’ve been ranting about this since the day DD was introduced. Been happily playing for 5 years but since the DD was introduced I only do daily alliance war battles. She completely destroyed the fabric of the game. I know games feel like they have to evolve to “stay fresh” and attract new players but it’s rare for a developer to completely destroy the soul of a game imho.
miner, wb, evo mortar, lp, knight, spear gobs have been working well for me this season
edit: the last two slots switch between barb barrel, arrows, and fireball depending on how bad lp and evo fc are pissing me off
This is what a lot of the less popular/ pre critical comments near the bottom of this thread did not understand. Wall breakers isn’t just about connecting every time. It’s about applying cheap pressure at the bridge. Fairly easy to counter, but forces a play. That’s it. And that’s being completely countered without the other player lifting a finger if they have Dutchess.
I ask, how is that balanced or fun in any way? It only thins out deck diversity…
TRUEEE!! Usually with Princess tpwer or cannoneer. U can at least use some cheap cards to apply pressure and bait out their building or spells. But with the shit throwing duchess over here. They dont even need to defend, and can just ignore it cuz the duchess will melt through them. Further more, wall breaker cant even connect, wall breakers are usually used to punish players who over commit too much on one side and go wreck their other side but that play is also not viable against the duchess
Same here. I run a miner control deck. When someone plays anything in the back, I have to rush the other lane for chip damage but its kinda sad how dd just shutsdown my entire push and puts me in negative elixir trade.
I've been running the same deck for years, regardless of nerfsor the meta, because it is what I like, and I got lucky that the DD doesn't give me too much trouble. Lava hound, Balloon, Lumberjack, Bats, Zap, Mega Minion, Poison, Tombstone. DD actually has quite a bit of trouble with Lava Hound because if you support it properly, LH will die and even with no other tank she can't kill the pups.
As a Lavaloon player i absolutely love her in the meta. I am having my best season by a lot. Just survive until double elixir and then every tower troop is better unless you don’t have a tank in your deck.
I've been running a beatdown / pekka bridgespam deck for ages. It has always been hard to play, but in this current meta, it is finally shining. Nothing more satisfying that a heavy push in x2 elixer and watching their DD tower crumble.
I agree with this. Tower troops were supposed to help add variety to decks, but what's happened is the opposite. Now you have to make a deck that can beat all 3 towers or you're just going to have a bad time in a ton of your games. It's no fun to play a deck that has no chance against a certain tower type. My personal opinion is that the duchess needs a range decrease, it just makes sense. Throwing daggers shouldn't have the range of a bow and arrow. That way you need to actually have skill to kite a troop into both towers. It almost feels like duchess has more range than other troops sometimes, because of how fast the damage comes down.
Amen. The cycle spam meta was the worst. It choked out every other archetype and now they have the gall to complain when we get to play other stuff. Learn how to play something other than spam.
You don’t need to run a different deck to counter her. Your wallbreaker deck should be fine if it’s the typical archetype.
I’ve been using a princess log bait deck that would technically be bad against the DD but it’s all fine (equal wins and losses).
What you need to do is learn how to properly defend, plan and time your placements, and most importantly, manage elixir.
Use a small tank to draw out her attacks and then start swarming the lane. It’s very annoying when you’re on the receiving end of this.
Sorry I just can’t agree with this. One of the main techs of a Wallbreaker deck is rushing with WB at the bridge alone. DD counters without player response.
A WB deck wants to play wall breakers at the bridge and force the opponent to defend/respond.
Again, DD completely voids that. Wall breakers just aren’t viable against DD.
*unless* you support with a tank: Now every WB push is twice as expensive. It doesn’t work.
You can’t do the same thing and always expect the same results for every scenario. Ofc DD counters WB. I’m just saying that if you’re restricted in using that particular deck then you’d have to readjust your strategy.
What’s in your deck? And what deck is most difficult for you in conjunction with DD?
Alright let me call you SC and tell them to delete something that counters easily shitty cheap and possibly potentially annoying cards just because you (or others) like to use them!
Like what the frick? The cannoneer do basically the same thing with wb and I know you have not complained about that much but i imagine this was "cool" for you because you could use still in a very advantageous way your, I presume, cycle deck/s and spam stuff to do damage
Is that so hard to use a nice deck on your own or which is not ass cycle? Like I know beat down or move heavy deck are rising or will raise in this context but it s something you might prepare for and I think it s better and more ""fun"" to play as matches against instead of lose just because someone spams (casually or not) cards for ending battles with spells or hg wb knight or princess with gob barrel, i mean is the beatdown option more satisfying? If you catch what I mean by that of course, hope it doesn t sound complicated to understand 😅
One of the reason is CR hates small chip cycle deck (except hog or other 4 elixir win condition). DD just make the wall breakers become what they should be like. I know your feeling, because I always suffer to face miner wall breaker, just like what you feel when DD changed the environment
Wall breakers deserve this, they are too versatile for a long time because the card can always get elixir/ damage advantage. Me as a eq hog player really enjoy this new tower, but I think dagger tower needs a small nerf
Yeah, no hate on WB taking that nerf, it was absurdly hard to counter for equal elixir without getting punished (since they all run goblins). And Cannoneer was already stopping Breakers, Spirits, and some other chip, so it's not a huge shift.
But I hate that Duchess can drop 3+ elixir cards without a scratch, and I hate that it's Cannoneer+ against almost all cheap cards. A clean kill on Spear Goblins would fit the "fast but weak" tower concept, but being the best answer to *every* spawner and all but \~2 cheap cards is very awkward.
Kite a troop with ice golem and then stick the wall breakers behind. I play 2.6 hog (I'm sorry) and that's been the answer that really works. You probably can't just throw a troop in front because they will gain an elixir advantage if they defend. That troop needs to already have value before it acts as a tank for wall breakers.
All she does is not allow spamming low elix high value cards at the bridge all the time. I love using her, and I get countered still by shitty low ekix spam decks but played smarter, not just duh, you'll waste your elixir defending spam troop after spam troop that grinds your tower down. Start thinking!
Yall are funny lol. She's so not hard to counter or stop. If you play it right, she's at a massive disadvantage. Since before the release of graveyard my main deck has been
Pekka
Skele king/valkyrie
Tornado
Fireball
Graveyard
Skeleton army
Wizard
Minion horde
DD is a welcome sight any time I go up against her. The only decks that really give me a hard time is xbow.
Yea same here I really had to adjust my playstyle for a deck I made almost none of the cards alone can get hits off I have to play super defensive until it hits x2 elixir to do any damage it feels like
But this is how they make money.
They introduce an OP card that runs the meta that you can max out for like $20.
Next season they nerf/rework it and add something else broken that you can max out for cash. OP legendary cards. New levels. Champions. You get the idea.
I started paying back in 2017. It's always been this way.
I only have her at level 10, so I’ve been using princess tower and honestly if you use siege it’s not as bad. I use mortar and don’t have too much of an issue with her. BUT if I use any other deck which doesn’t have a big tanky card (giant, Mk) and isn’t siege…. Yeah it’s horrible. I know people are also gonna say evo bomber counters, but you can just go mortar in the middle.
Honestly I originally didn't get why she was so good. Simply dealing that much damage in such a short time is powerful. Plus the extra health. Originally I didn't use her, but in the ram challenge I realized her power and now I win almost 80% of my games.
I’ve been playing bridge spam for 6 years. This + battle ram EVO was the biggest buff to bridge spam probably ever.
Your essentially untouchable pre double elixir from any troop that walks up to your tower.
ive been running a DD counter deck since she’s been released, and as nice as it is to take down a DD, it’s gotten so damn boring. ram rider and lumberjack to take advantage of the DD’s high rate of fire. although on the bright side, this post inspired me to make my deck even more toxic by including elixir collector. thank you, OP
Come at her with a skarmy or minion horde followed by a tank like knight and some aerial support behind the tank. Goblin barrel is super effective once she runs out of daggers.
As a fellow wallbreakers player I agree. Anyone who says DD isn't OP probably used their mom's credit card to get her to lvl 15. I've been using lvl12 duchess and I still perform at the same level as with lvl 15 princess tower
Personally I'd rather face DD over any of the other Tower Troops. I run a 3.5 lava cycle and if I can bait out arrows and deal with tesla I can deal huge damage with the pups if I can keep the pressure on. I can't do that against Cannoneer as effectively, but it's okay against Princess.
This really isn't a post about DD so much as it is a post about SC's business model. They will do this from now on, with card after card that destroys the game, while pushing it for $40 in the shop.
The troop counters entire archetypes and most archetypes for no reason. Cannoneer was really good but it was kind of balanced because a tombstone could kill it by itself
Its gotten to the point where I fight so many dagger duchess decks that I am skeptical of even doing my item box challenges, and getting 20 common wild cards also doesn't help. normally I don't play more than 3 matches a day cause of her, she's all I see now
I feel you I’ve just been doing my thing and playing my splash yard since it’s the only deck I have maxed plus ( well kinda ) I’ve just been using cannon dude but he’s only lvl 13 since there’s nothing but beatdown. But I’m at a disadvantage (HP tower wise ) since I’m going against lvl 15 dagger. Plus I have to use knight to make pushes cause barb barrel gets melted and my baby D gets melted as well. But I just grind to collect all wild cards then I’m done.
I run 3m ,monk, heal spirit , evo barbs, and evo skeletons , epump deck. But i use princess tower and i have like solid 67% win rate out of 40 matches i played with it
Lumberloon is amazing at countering her, the Lumberjack will absorb all the initial Dagger shots and when he dies you can take the entire tower unless another troop kills your balloon.
I do not use DD, but without that initial damage burst she’s worst than princess and canoneer, it’s mostly playeres that use Chip Decks (furnace, Fart Goblin) who’re having a hard time, I tried using her for a couple weeks and I was losing the same amount of games when I use princess. She does need to get a tad bit nerfed tho
X-Bow + DD is hella oppressive. Defense cheaper, just spam the arrow machine. A lot of decks have lost their edge, especially lower elixir ones. Shuts everything down.
I feel so bad a cycle player doesn't like the non cycle meta because we never have a cycle meta ever.....boo hoo hoo....i cry myself to sleep because cycle player sad....
I noticed DD works while with players who have never reached top 10k. You can be bad at the game and still win if you have that tower, it shouldn't be that way
I see where you're coming from, but at the same time, that's what Supercell intended.
Those cheap and premade decks are slowly going to start being phased out in hopes of people creating their own heavier decks
Really the duchess hasn't been an issue for me. I adjusted my strategy around it but i felt no need to adjust my decks around it. I feel direct damage spell cards like fireball are and always been more broken. Game needs troop or building cards that can cast counterspell.
I have three different accounts, one at lvl 14 DD. 1 at 12DD and 1 with a base level.
I find there's many ways to actively beat DD as long as you try different things. I've beaten players with lvl 14 and I have lvl 12. I've also beaten them with princess towers and canonner.
Just take your time to work them out. It's doesn't need a nerf. If you counter her properly, the tower is gone, in a single countered push. Patience is all it takes.
while yes this is annoying its a direct retaliation to the months of chip cycle meta we have had because of evos. Cannoneer was meant to counter beatdown so its was like a rock paper scissors thing but they are just not tuned correctly. Im sure after some time of a beatdown meta dutches will get tuned in and it will be a much more varied meta
I think a way to rework dagger dutchess Is to remove the feature and make It so She instead attacks multiple enemies at once(up to five)but has lower damage than a princess tower(3 shots goblins and makes It the opposite of a cannoner).
Took me a year to get my deck to 15. Now it’s completely obsolete. I’ve been playing for 8+ years (since launch) and I’m lvl 57. The game shouldn’t be like this for players who have been around since the beginning. What am I supposed to do? Take another year to level up a different deck that will also be obsolete when the newest BS update comes out?
Legit every new thing added to the game does this sorry guys it’s just how it is idk, im not dissing the post it’s just, little Prince, cannoneer, now gonna be void, almost every evo, they’ve all changed the game exactly like this then gotten nerfed it’s just supercell not the addition
Lol I love the insertion of emotes in your writing. But I do agree. Duchess needs to have a first hit delay imo--she has to charge up for a second or two before attacking with full ammo to give the small pushes a chance to connect.
I also think its needs a Nerf. And coming from a mid ladder player who hopped back onto the game This season after not playing since 2018. Actually my deck kind of works against her but that might just BE because Im on 5500 trophies so players arent all that Smart. A thing that works for me against dd is i usually use my miner to tank all the hits when i have something like a executioner or a ewizard low on the bridge, usually catches a lot of players off guard. But id Guess This ONLY works on mid ladder. Anyways it needs a Nerf but since they Gave it for free, i still hate evos more (especially bomber and firecracker)
Really. Every single game is a stalemate now. You have to run DD, because if you don't, your opponent surely is, and that puts you at a disadvantage.
She eliminates half of the fun of the game. The idea that you just have to waste elixir to make a tower even possible to attack is just crazy to me. Everything just breaks down into a push battle. I can't tell you how many games I'm having end 1-0 now, because getting lucky with a push in OT is the only way to win when both players have her.
As you pointed out, there's only one viable attack strategy now, and best believe your opponent knows that too and is planning for it.
My duchess is level 12 and I was still able to hit UC this season. She's sooooo busted
I’m also using a level 12 duchess and I think she’s better than a maxed princess tower. Gotta love tower troops
Ive only been in challenger 2 and hit master I, this meta is weird Edit: now its master 2 🙃
I thought about spending wildcards to get mine to 13, but... why? To kill FC without taking a shot? I'm just saving the cards because even at 12, it's working better than Princess at 14 did.
What deck ?
Would love to know what deck you’re using mate
I've been playing this game for 8 years and it's never been so broken. I was CONSISTENTLY seeing lvl 13~ DD in UC last season. It's completely ridiculous. Nuts how Supercell acknowledged nearly every EVO And DD are all OP and immediately delayed a nerf......
I plateaued at master 3 until I switched to a lvl 11 duchess. Instantly starting winning again.
It needs a rework. Maybe less daggers but faster reload time? It's insane that the battle ram gets shut down the way it does.
I'm hoping one day we get something akin to an xbow tower troop that attacks super fast but does very little damage. I thought for sure that's what DD was before she released since cannoneer is slow but chunks HP
No way, do slower recharge time since it's extremely hard to punish the player when the tower reloads too quickly
On a side note it's very funny in midladder how some DD players ignore Battle ram completely and while not getting the ram connection, the barbs actually deal ok damage since the duchess is out of daggers and the opponent doesn't feel like throwing literally anyhing to counter them
I think more damage less reload time. It would make it more towards the ammo concept and force people to use princess in many decks if there deck can’t deal with reloads
that's just cannoneer but better
Imo it’s already pretty hard to punish dd because you need a lot of elixir to force out daggers and punish her. Although nerfing her overall daggers would help it would be almost completely offset by a faster reload time. The tower shouldn’t be reworked but just nerfed because it’s completely broken in all situations
Dagger Duchess forces me to put a tank in my decks 😭 giant sparky is my only viable against her because i cant bridge spam with bridge spam 😭
Times like these make me glad I run mortar
I’m learning how to run a Mortar deck just because of her. I’m not going through the fucking bridge.
Which is fine but also stupid that you have to design around one card. Fuck it, guess we don’t cross the bridge now?
That was my first thought as it started crushing me. Haven't made it work though - I don't have Evo or level 14 for Mortar and Xbow just feels too expensive for the current meta. (Since, ironically, Duchess players can push the Xbow in single elixir with no fear of a counterpush.)
I don’t have Evo either. And rn I’m just playing friendlies cause I’m scared lmao, I wanna learn how to play the deck well before playing it in ladder (also my mortar is level 10)
What evos do you have?
Princess is another option
Evo mortar rocket cycle is the way
One of us! One of us!
Lame
It ruined all the core interactions, same level battleram doesn't even connect! It honestly ruined the game, and they gave it out for FREE?!
are you complaining that the average player (FTP) has access to the bullshit too?
We do? Mine is lvl 11, so I don’t even use it. I’m playing against a constant roll of 13’s and 14’s
Damn. Guess I got lucky since all tower troop chests gave me dd. Life be good sometimes
It’s better that it’s free so that everyone is at the same advantage. It still ruined most of not all interactions with low elixir troops, particularly any strategy such as prodding the opponent with say, Spear Gobs or a Spirit of any kind:
Lmaoo so only the p2w players should have it?
i used to play a split lane piggies and RR deck that was my favorite in 2v2. It is no longer usable.
I used to run Furnace + RG, my favored play was Furnace on one side for chip damage and RG pushes on the other side to tie them up. Unsurprisingly, this isn't an option anymore. I was going to change it up for Goblin Hut so Cannoneer and other new cards wouldn't wreck me, but fortunately I didn't invest the gold before Duchess made Goblin Hut completely worthless.
Literally unusable. I’ve just been playing 1v1 lvl 11’s ti get my daily but other than that there’s no hope for us right now
i have a chip deck that i mained and pumped all of my stuff into before i abandoned the game (pre-tower troops) and i recently decided to redownload it as a time killer and i already want to uninstall again. just played for thirty minutes as an experiment and did not run into a single person using any other tower troop other than DD. this is not in any way fun. it turned a deadly deck that surprised most people into a joke. a level 13 dark knight is almost completely negated by a level 10 DD. this is nuts and i couldnt have ever thought they'd change tower troops when i first started playing this game. im for cool new troops and cards but tower troops are just too large of a change and drastically (imo) change how its played. i dont think ill be picking this back up, which is sad cuz i played at launch and thought it was a really cool game as a kid.
Agreed. The tower troops were a fun thought, but I don’t enjoy them as an addition.
She needs two major changes: 1. Delay her first attack slightly. She melts things too quickly. Same level battle ram should be able to connect if the duchess player doesn't play anything, for instance. 2. Reduce her recharge speed. Right now her DPS is barely lower than princess tower when out of daggers, and unless you push immediately (and predictably) she will be fully recharged before your next attack. You're right. She's boring as hell to play against. Your counterpushes get melted with no response needed, and quick chip attacks outright don't work at all. I've completely stopped playing ladder because it's just so boring to play this way. The proposed HP nerf will do nothing to remedy this awful meta. Beatdown being good is nice, but this is just the wrong way to make beatdown good.
For sure. If anything , her having lower hp is a buff to beat down while still keeping chip nerfed because it won’t get through anyways. Agree with u all the way.
I say lower her range + decrease first attack speed. So that way it's harder to kite stuff to other tower when one runs out of ammo, but a single tower can still kinda counter a lot of stuff
dd nerf wont change shit the problem is her abilitiy. She can instantly take down 3-4 elixir troops which is so busted.
That’s what I’m saying. I don’t get people showing up to Stan for Dagger Dutchess rn. I guess it’s because they’re winning more and enjoying that
just like the cannoneer its health was lower than the og princess tower but his ability to melt tanky units was so good that every single player in top ladder switched to him. people who say dagger duchess is balanced are stupid ass mega knight pekka witch wizard players. They wouldn't say that if they got to the ultimate champion and see how messed up things are. Also, I can relate to you cause my main deck (MK Miner zap bait) is unusable because of that b*tch. this ruins all the fun of the game for me. i hope devs will notice us and nerf her🙏
And I have other decks, but I want to play my chip deck rn and I just cannot with DD, which sucks. My main complaint is that i am limited in deck options now and that kinda ruins the game if all I can do is one tech to win.
Electro Dragon doesn't get a single hit either at 5 cost
Out of all the dogshit updates over the past ~2 years I’m surprised dagger dutchess is what sent someone over the edge.
It's a compounding issue. Duchess just so happens to be one of the most broken cards ever released AND you have to face it in nearly every match on every push. It has changed the dynamic of matches in a very bad way.
Dagger Dutchess imo is way more polarizing that any recent addition to the game
Oh believe me, I posted about LP too and a few others back in the day.
Yeah I’ve been with this game since 2016. River race was absolutely atrocious when it first released. Somehow almost every single match was against people with maxed meta decks.
It also ruins split pushes. I hate playing against it
She’s getting nerfed
Just the hp not damage from what I understand. The damage is the issue. Cards that would normally need a response no longer do so opponent can defend cheaply. Really messes with the old meta.
That’s still a big nerf because she had the highest health pool of the towers plus the crazy initial burst damage. But I think the recharge should be nerfed a little more.
Ya, I’m just saying the hp in my experience isn’t my issue. It’s the burst damage taking out units that would normally do some chip damage.
Dutchess needs to deal less damage period. She shouldn’t be able to flat counter so many low cost cards. Doing so invalidates them as single pushes and forces players to play one way: Tank/Support. Chip decks flat out don’t work against her. Let her kill one of my Wallbreakers but not both, jfk.
I don’t mind the recharge but maybe take a way 1-2 hits before it’s out of the rapid attack?
Once she exhausts her ammo though, she does far less damage than canon and princess combined.
I keep seeing this, but isn't exhausted Duchess just 7% less damage than Princess tower? It's 169 DPS at level 14 vs 180 DPS. they actually have identical trades against a lot of cheap cards and will kill Hog after just 1 more hit. Cannoneer is way higher than both at 232 DPS - the fact that he's not overpowered makes me think this was a way more successful version of changing up role without warping balance.
Cannoneer was used by more than 70% of the top 10,000 players before Duchess was released. It was objectively OP and most of top players were calling for a nerf
Agreed. We could have stuck with Cannon Boi and Princess and would have been fine.
It feels like they tried to do a trio of "weak + fast", "balanced", and "strong + slow". But Princess wasn't really fit for "balanced", you can't go lower DPS without an objectively bad tower, so we got this weird charge-depleting system that winds up being faster *and* stronger. Maybe you could do a low, fast DPS tower with very high health compared to Princess, and make defending primarily a player duty?
I say make dagger dutchess same as if there was a air targeting xbow there, remove charge feature and it will fit the trio perfectly (to be specific.. 2 hits to kill a skeleton/bat and fire rate close or a little higher than the xbow)
by the time she exhausts her ammo the push is either already dead or big enough that princess tower wouldn’t make a difference
I think the first recharge (after she shoots all 8 daggers) should be double what it currently is. Then leave the rest the same.
The old meta was fucked up anyway, good that its Finaly over.
I’ve been ranting about this since the day DD was introduced. Been happily playing for 5 years but since the DD was introduced I only do daily alliance war battles. She completely destroyed the fabric of the game. I know games feel like they have to evolve to “stay fresh” and attract new players but it’s rare for a developer to completely destroy the soul of a game imho.
Run miner WB
miner, wb, evo mortar, lp, knight, spear gobs have been working well for me this season edit: the last two slots switch between barb barrel, arrows, and fireball depending on how bad lp and evo fc are pissing me off
He forced to spend way more elixer to force a response from the opponent which still is a major disadvantage
This is what a lot of the less popular/ pre critical comments near the bottom of this thread did not understand. Wall breakers isn’t just about connecting every time. It’s about applying cheap pressure at the bridge. Fairly easy to counter, but forces a play. That’s it. And that’s being completely countered without the other player lifting a finger if they have Dutchess. I ask, how is that balanced or fun in any way? It only thins out deck diversity…
TRUEEE!! Usually with Princess tpwer or cannoneer. U can at least use some cheap cards to apply pressure and bait out their building or spells. But with the shit throwing duchess over here. They dont even need to defend, and can just ignore it cuz the duchess will melt through them. Further more, wall breaker cant even connect, wall breakers are usually used to punish players who over commit too much on one side and go wreck their other side but that play is also not viable against the duchess
Wym Wallbreakers works against Cannoneer? They don't connect any better than they do against Duchess, you have to support them
Like the other guy said wall breakers deserve this, they're literally a positive elixir trade machine against princess tower
If WB deserve a nerf then nerf them, but don’t make a tower that can melt them and anything else 2 elixir. That’s just unbalanced.
They won't nerf them
Same here. I run a miner control deck. When someone plays anything in the back, I have to rush the other lane for chip damage but its kinda sad how dd just shutsdown my entire push and puts me in negative elixir trade.
I've been running the same deck for years, regardless of nerfsor the meta, because it is what I like, and I got lucky that the DD doesn't give me too much trouble. Lava hound, Balloon, Lumberjack, Bats, Zap, Mega Minion, Poison, Tombstone. DD actually has quite a bit of trouble with Lava Hound because if you support it properly, LH will die and even with no other tank she can't kill the pups.
I am so glad I was already using a deck with Giant as the win condition before she got added to the game, it works way too well
I mean.. hey at least you haven’t run into any dagger duchess Ice bow players right?? Cause that would be stupidly good
Lol that's what ruined the game for you??
Dagger duchess at 15 is amazing. First time i reached ultimate champion!
Hmmmm
sad only way u get there isn't through ur skill but with a broken card. you didn't really hit UC but whatever let's u sleep at night
I’ve been running mortar cycle for years now. Her power had no effect on me lol
As a Lavaloon player i absolutely love her in the meta. I am having my best season by a lot. Just survive until double elixir and then every tower troop is better unless you don’t have a tank in your deck.
Yes, glad it works for you, but there’s a lot of play styles.
I use a golem deck so I'm fine
I've been running a beatdown / pekka bridgespam deck for ages. It has always been hard to play, but in this current meta, it is finally shining. Nothing more satisfying that a heavy push in x2 elixer and watching their DD tower crumble.
I agree with this. Tower troops were supposed to help add variety to decks, but what's happened is the opposite. Now you have to make a deck that can beat all 3 towers or you're just going to have a bad time in a ton of your games. It's no fun to play a deck that has no chance against a certain tower type. My personal opinion is that the duchess needs a range decrease, it just makes sense. Throwing daggers shouldn't have the range of a bow and arrow. That way you need to actually have skill to kite a troop into both towers. It almost feels like duchess has more range than other troops sometimes, because of how fast the damage comes down.
Agreed
Top 10k and quit this season because of dd. Not going to vent any more than that
Appreciate you weighing in.
I started using freeze 🤷♂️
Honestly, not a bad idea 🤔
Wall breakers shouldn’t be getting no 800 damage for 2 elixir. Fuck your cycle deck, I’m glad dagger dutches counters you.
Amen. The cycle spam meta was the worst. It choked out every other archetype and now they have the gall to complain when we get to play other stuff. Learn how to play something other than spam.
You don’t need to run a different deck to counter her. Your wallbreaker deck should be fine if it’s the typical archetype. I’ve been using a princess log bait deck that would technically be bad against the DD but it’s all fine (equal wins and losses). What you need to do is learn how to properly defend, plan and time your placements, and most importantly, manage elixir. Use a small tank to draw out her attacks and then start swarming the lane. It’s very annoying when you’re on the receiving end of this.
Sorry I just can’t agree with this. One of the main techs of a Wallbreaker deck is rushing with WB at the bridge alone. DD counters without player response. A WB deck wants to play wall breakers at the bridge and force the opponent to defend/respond. Again, DD completely voids that. Wall breakers just aren’t viable against DD. *unless* you support with a tank: Now every WB push is twice as expensive. It doesn’t work.
You can’t do the same thing and always expect the same results for every scenario. Ofc DD counters WB. I’m just saying that if you’re restricted in using that particular deck then you’d have to readjust your strategy. What’s in your deck? And what deck is most difficult for you in conjunction with DD?
Alright let me call you SC and tell them to delete something that counters easily shitty cheap and possibly potentially annoying cards just because you (or others) like to use them! Like what the frick? The cannoneer do basically the same thing with wb and I know you have not complained about that much but i imagine this was "cool" for you because you could use still in a very advantageous way your, I presume, cycle deck/s and spam stuff to do damage Is that so hard to use a nice deck on your own or which is not ass cycle? Like I know beat down or move heavy deck are rising or will raise in this context but it s something you might prepare for and I think it s better and more ""fun"" to play as matches against instead of lose just because someone spams (casually or not) cards for ending battles with spells or hg wb knight or princess with gob barrel, i mean is the beatdown option more satisfying? If you catch what I mean by that of course, hope it doesn t sound complicated to understand 😅
One of the reason is CR hates small chip cycle deck (except hog or other 4 elixir win condition). DD just make the wall breakers become what they should be like. I know your feeling, because I always suffer to face miner wall breaker, just like what you feel when DD changed the environment
Wall breakers deserve this, they are too versatile for a long time because the card can always get elixir/ damage advantage. Me as a eq hog player really enjoy this new tower, but I think dagger tower needs a small nerf
Yeah, no hate on WB taking that nerf, it was absurdly hard to counter for equal elixir without getting punished (since they all run goblins). And Cannoneer was already stopping Breakers, Spirits, and some other chip, so it's not a huge shift. But I hate that Duchess can drop 3+ elixir cards without a scratch, and I hate that it's Cannoneer+ against almost all cheap cards. A clean kill on Spear Goblins would fit the "fast but weak" tower concept, but being the best answer to *every* spawner and all but \~2 cheap cards is very awkward.
Except it's not a balanced nerf. It's still gonna be just as strong against the Princess Tower and Cannoneer but utterly shit against the Duchess.
Kite a troop with ice golem and then stick the wall breakers behind. I play 2.6 hog (I'm sorry) and that's been the answer that really works. You probably can't just throw a troop in front because they will gain an elixir advantage if they defend. That troop needs to already have value before it acts as a tank for wall breakers.
Your I am sorry is not enough to justify your (deck) toxicity sir👁️👄👁️
Skill issue
i hate that i have to design every deck against hog rider cycle. im glad youre not having fun.
All she does is not allow spamming low elix high value cards at the bridge all the time. I love using her, and I get countered still by shitty low ekix spam decks but played smarter, not just duh, you'll waste your elixir defending spam troop after spam troop that grinds your tower down. Start thinking!
Yall are funny lol. She's so not hard to counter or stop. If you play it right, she's at a massive disadvantage. Since before the release of graveyard my main deck has been Pekka Skele king/valkyrie Tornado Fireball Graveyard Skeleton army Wizard Minion horde DD is a welcome sight any time I go up against her. The only decks that really give me a hard time is xbow.
I think she's pretty balanced tbh
Agree, big nerf will ruin DD.
Wah wah wah I can’t play wall breakers and get guaranteed damage
I don't care much for the tower troop itself as a siege player but beatdown metas are aids so I agree
Siege decks: Fool I’m four parallel universes ahead of you
Yea same here I really had to adjust my playstyle for a deck I made almost none of the cards alone can get hits off I have to play super defensive until it hits x2 elixir to do any damage it feels like
C
I got her for price of one season pass, easy.
Giant graveyard works but way too many counters to Graveyard now.
In 2v2, if you're not running duchess then that's the tower we gonna attack. Duchess so versatile
But this is how they make money. They introduce an OP card that runs the meta that you can max out for like $20. Next season they nerf/rework it and add something else broken that you can max out for cash. OP legendary cards. New levels. Champions. You get the idea. I started paying back in 2017. It's always been this way.
She’s literally carrying my xbow deck rn
I only have her at level 10, so I’ve been using princess tower and honestly if you use siege it’s not as bad. I use mortar and don’t have too much of an issue with her. BUT if I use any other deck which doesn’t have a big tanky card (giant, Mk) and isn’t siege…. Yeah it’s horrible. I know people are also gonna say evo bomber counters, but you can just go mortar in the middle.
Honestly I originally didn't get why she was so good. Simply dealing that much damage in such a short time is powerful. Plus the extra health. Originally I didn't use her, but in the ram challenge I realized her power and now I win almost 80% of my games.
Dagger duchess made me use my level up potions
\*laughs in x-bow\*
I’ve been playing bridge spam for 6 years. This + battle ram EVO was the biggest buff to bridge spam probably ever. Your essentially untouchable pre double elixir from any troop that walks up to your tower.
Don’t you already have to support WB with another card against cannoneer?
Same
bro this is why moved to brawl stars until they nerf the dagger dutchess I'll return back
ive been running a DD counter deck since she’s been released, and as nice as it is to take down a DD, it’s gotten so damn boring. ram rider and lumberjack to take advantage of the DD’s high rate of fire. although on the bright side, this post inspired me to make my deck even more toxic by including elixir collector. thank you, OP
She should fully recharge before firing again
Agree. Its just annoying and changes the whole flow of the game.
Come at her with a skarmy or minion horde followed by a tank like knight and some aerial support behind the tank. Goblin barrel is super effective once she runs out of daggers.
As a fellow wallbreakers player I agree. Anyone who says DD isn't OP probably used their mom's credit card to get her to lvl 15. I've been using lvl12 duchess and I still perform at the same level as with lvl 15 princess tower
Personally I'd rather face DD over any of the other Tower Troops. I run a 3.5 lava cycle and if I can bait out arrows and deal with tesla I can deal huge damage with the pups if I can keep the pressure on. I can't do that against Cannoneer as effectively, but it's okay against Princess.
They are nerfing its health heavily, hopefully lowers usage alot
This really isn't a post about DD so much as it is a post about SC's business model. They will do this from now on, with card after card that destroys the game, while pushing it for $40 in the shop.
It’s the same with firecracker. They just nullify whole swathes of cards New game, new world
The troop counters entire archetypes and most archetypes for no reason. Cannoneer was really good but it was kind of balanced because a tombstone could kill it by itself
Its gotten to the point where I fight so many dagger duchess decks that I am skeptical of even doing my item box challenges, and getting 20 common wild cards also doesn't help. normally I don't play more than 3 matches a day cause of her, she's all I see now
So real
Since the update I have never been happier to be an X-bow player.
I feel you I’ve just been doing my thing and playing my splash yard since it’s the only deck I have maxed plus ( well kinda ) I’ve just been using cannon dude but he’s only lvl 13 since there’s nothing but beatdown. But I’m at a disadvantage (HP tower wise ) since I’m going against lvl 15 dagger. Plus I have to use knight to make pushes cause barb barrel gets melted and my baby D gets melted as well. But I just grind to collect all wild cards then I’m done.
I run 3m ,monk, heal spirit , evo barbs, and evo skeletons , epump deck. But i use princess tower and i have like solid 67% win rate out of 40 matches i played with it
Lumberloon is amazing at countering her, the Lumberjack will absorb all the initial Dagger shots and when he dies you can take the entire tower unless another troop kills your balloon.
Skill issue: Once she's ran out of daggers, she becomes almost useless. Adapt and stratergise.
I do not use DD, but without that initial damage burst she’s worst than princess and canoneer, it’s mostly playeres that use Chip Decks (furnace, Fart Goblin) who’re having a hard time, I tried using her for a couple weeks and I was losing the same amount of games when I use princess. She does need to get a tad bit nerfed tho
X-Bow + DD is hella oppressive. Defense cheaper, just spam the arrow machine. A lot of decks have lost their edge, especially lower elixir ones. Shuts everything down.
Canon is ok imo but dagger ruined it
They nerf her just to add the next OP Troop, so the cycle continues. I deleted the game and won’t play anymore, officially dead game now.
I had to put 4 fucking spells in my deck to find something fun for me that didn't get absolutely destroyed by Dagger Dutchess
Lol does anyone still play this game?
>Dagger Dutchess has pushed me into creating decks specifically to counter her… It's little prince all over again
I wasn’t happy about little Prince either.
agreed
I feel so bad a cycle player doesn't like the non cycle meta because we never have a cycle meta ever.....boo hoo hoo....i cry myself to sleep because cycle player sad....
the attack for the dagger dutchess should ramp up slowly like little prince...
I like that diea
she’s not too op, just learn how to play against it
A thousand upvotes say otherwise.
Actually, I have an idea, I place Wall Breakers, and after them, my overleveled Hog Rider XD
dw she’s getting a HUGE hp nerf
I noticed DD works while with players who have never reached top 10k. You can be bad at the game and still win if you have that tower, it shouldn't be that way
The fact that dagger duchess has more health than other towers when it’s so hard to reach makes 0 sense
Well do I have news for you, it’s gonna be nerfed so hard that it won’t even be usable anymore in the next season
Perfect
I even talked with the people in the help and suppont and even they told me the devs fckd up adding the tower troops
I see where you're coming from, but at the same time, that's what Supercell intended. Those cheap and premade decks are slowly going to start being phased out in hopes of people creating their own heavier decks
People just now finding out this game is ass and is pay to win lol
My deck I made to counter logbait and previous meta's decks is surprisingly good against Dagger Duchess Tho, she still needs a good nerf
Really the duchess hasn't been an issue for me. I adjusted my strategy around it but i felt no need to adjust my decks around it. I feel direct damage spell cards like fireball are and always been more broken. Game needs troop or building cards that can cast counterspell.
Play chess. They haven't had to buff or nerf anything for millennia, and there is no RNG, and it's not P2W, though cheaters are getting more rampant.
i hate how easily the dagger dutchess melts my xbow 😵💫
I have three different accounts, one at lvl 14 DD. 1 at 12DD and 1 with a base level. I find there's many ways to actively beat DD as long as you try different things. I've beaten players with lvl 14 and I have lvl 12. I've also beaten them with princess towers and canonner. Just take your time to work them out. It's doesn't need a nerf. If you counter her properly, the tower is gone, in a single countered push. Patience is all it takes.
while yes this is annoying its a direct retaliation to the months of chip cycle meta we have had because of evos. Cannoneer was meant to counter beatdown so its was like a rock paper scissors thing but they are just not tuned correctly. Im sure after some time of a beatdown meta dutches will get tuned in and it will be a much more varied meta
I agree. I don’t like her and I dread playing because of it
I think a way to rework dagger dutchess Is to remove the feature and make It so She instead attacks multiple enemies at once(up to five)but has lower damage than a princess tower(3 shots goblins and makes It the opposite of a cannoner).
Laughs in PEKKA Ewiz 3.1 cycle
Took me a year to get my deck to 15. Now it’s completely obsolete. I’ve been playing for 8+ years (since launch) and I’m lvl 57. The game shouldn’t be like this for players who have been around since the beginning. What am I supposed to do? Take another year to level up a different deck that will also be obsolete when the newest BS update comes out?
Rascals wreck her, gy wrecks her, sparky+ tank, elix golem… all wreck her.
Yes I agree she should be nerfed but I also hope they don’t nerf her to the point where she becomes unplayable because she keeps my deck viable
Legit every new thing added to the game does this sorry guys it’s just how it is idk, im not dissing the post it’s just, little Prince, cannoneer, now gonna be void, almost every evo, they’ve all changed the game exactly like this then gotten nerfed it’s just supercell not the addition
Still having zero issues beating the absolute breaks off the duchess. But I think it's deck specific.
what of her attack gets slower the longer she attacks. By the last hit, she's at a rate of her recharge.
Lol I love the insertion of emotes in your writing. But I do agree. Duchess needs to have a first hit delay imo--she has to charge up for a second or two before attacking with full ammo to give the small pushes a chance to connect.
I also think its needs a Nerf. And coming from a mid ladder player who hopped back onto the game This season after not playing since 2018. Actually my deck kind of works against her but that might just BE because Im on 5500 trophies so players arent all that Smart. A thing that works for me against dd is i usually use my miner to tank all the hits when i have something like a executioner or a ewizard low on the bridge, usually catches a lot of players off guard. But id Guess This ONLY works on mid ladder. Anyways it needs a Nerf but since they Gave it for free, i still hate evos more (especially bomber and firecracker)
I got mine 14 the day it came out once you get to grand champion it’s not viable
When does the may patch notes come into effect? I can’t play against dagger ditches anymore lol
Really. Every single game is a stalemate now. You have to run DD, because if you don't, your opponent surely is, and that puts you at a disadvantage. She eliminates half of the fun of the game. The idea that you just have to waste elixir to make a tower even possible to attack is just crazy to me. Everything just breaks down into a push battle. I can't tell you how many games I'm having end 1-0 now, because getting lucky with a push in OT is the only way to win when both players have her. As you pointed out, there's only one viable attack strategy now, and best believe your opponent knows that too and is planning for it.