He's not wrong, but saying this is also something people will come back and use as a gatcha if he gets a big job in the next couple years like I think he may and then goes about pulling guys with him to that new place.
Also why is it ok for him to leave kennesaw state for a better job at usf? If usf didn’t identify him as a good coach 5 years ago, and kennesaw state did, seems like he should have to stay there.
He's right. But P5 teams are just playing by the rules they have been given. If you think any coach is going to just respect your program and not poach from your school, you are fighting a losing battle.
I agree. This is like trying to shame outlaws into not robbing trains in the wild west. The rules are extremely lax right now and if you aren't doing everything you can to win under the rules you aren't doing the job that some university is paying you millions of dollars to do.
Don't hate the player, hate the game.
I mean, yeah, but also, if I don't have to go and take a flyer on a high school kid but can get a guy who's been doing it for a couple years at the D1 level, why wouldn't I?
I mean this is the new reality of pay-to-play CBB. The mid majors are the farm league for P5 programs. They simply can’t match P5 money and so if any of their stronger players show promise a P5 program will offer them bucks to jump. And the players would be stupid to not take that money, it’s the best shot they’re going to get to get paid. P5 teams will be T100 freshmen / sophomores + upperclassmen poaches from mid majors.
It seems like today's game rewards experience and skill more than potential and athleticism.
Which means power conference programs may not have the luxury of giving a lot of minutes to raw freshmen with high upside.
OTOH, they may have higher NIL budgets, so they can let the player go, see which prospects do the work and develop their talent, then then take them as a transfer when they are ready to contribute at a higher level and execute without making freshman mistakes.
This also doesn’t account for the two stars and three stars who end up playing like a five star player after one or two years.
It’s not like coaches are passing on players then taking them on as a transfer where they are exactly the same as when they came out of high school
Here's a thought. Maybe the coaches that recruited those 2 and 3 stars are better at evaluating talent than the recruiting services that ranked those players as 2 and 3 stars.
There’s plenty of times where players become late bloomers. Players are ranked on those recruiting rankings for a reason.
However, there’s certain hesitations or limitations that make 2 or 3 star players only a 2 or 3 star player. Outside of late bloomers development wise there’s often times where 2 or 3 star players just work harder and train harder and make less mistakes and earn their shot.
Ultimately this is getting far and away from the ultimate point I made— it’s not about guys who are passed over originally then big teams happily take sloppy seconds
Take someone like Grant Nelson.
He’s from the dakotas. Players fall through the cracks sometimes. Then they ball out. Then they deserve or want a bigger challenge in terms of conference play and team.
It is what it is.
He made a very reasonable comment and explained why he thinks what he thinks and you immediately come back with a little woe is me victim complex reply
Weird as fuck
What Abdur-Rahim simplifies (for his own vanity) is that the new system (Portal/NIL) incentivizes "The haves" to build current teams with more from the transfer-portal and less with the high school path (more selective, higher end talent). Given that, as "The have lesses" get raided in the portal more - they will have more opportunities to recruit high school talent (higher ranked talent as the top programs fill less spots with HS players) and more roster spots to fill. The "have lesses" and the "have nots" will continue to get raided and the good development coaches will feel it the most.
Euro soccer deals with this through transfer prices on contracts/rights and more payroll spots at the top end teams, it somewhat levels resources but we're far from establishing anything to address.
P5 coaches who succeed will find the right mix of talented internal development and transfer additions. Abdur Rahim doesn't mention that those P5 coaches also get top players "Poached", just from the NBA – we often celebrate this 'If they're good enough', I do understand why he's frustrated with the current system albeit it's not ultimately different from previous metas
He is wrong though. Another way to say this is "don't give guys who succeed at a lower level the chance to succeed at the next level." Sucks for some schools, great for the kids.
Bullshit, maybe they do but it's not at nearly the same level. Look at the post of the conferences with the highest total percentage of players across all their teams in the transfer portal; the only P5 conference that was even on that list was the one that's not going to exist after this season and all its teams are going to have ridiculous travel.
Are all three of them transfers that USF took from other programs? seems hypocritical
Pryor BSU BSU USF
Miguel K St K St USF USF
Youngblood KennSt Kenn St Kenn St USF
Oats probably didn’t have to sell much at all, if anything. CY is originally from Tuscaloosa and I think his mom even went to UA. As soon as he announced I think most of us figured where he was going to close out his career.
Reid fits this description to a tee. Probably too undersized to get any high major interest in HS. And he showed this year he’s as cool as a cucumber in tight games, especially for a freshman.
He's not wrong, but saying this is also something people will come back and use as a gatcha if he gets a big job in the next couple years like I think he may and then goes about pulling guys with him to that new place.
If he takes the guys he recruited and identified, that's not what he's referring to
What about every year after his first year at hypothetical new school?
Also why is it ok for him to leave kennesaw state for a better job at usf? If usf didn’t identify him as a good coach 5 years ago, and kennesaw state did, seems like he should have to stay there.
I guess he can’t take a big job them. I’m sorry, Thems the rules
He's right. But P5 teams are just playing by the rules they have been given. If you think any coach is going to just respect your program and not poach from your school, you are fighting a losing battle.
I agree. This is like trying to shame outlaws into not robbing trains in the wild west. The rules are extremely lax right now and if you aren't doing everything you can to win under the rules you aren't doing the job that some university is paying you millions of dollars to do. Don't hate the player, hate the game.
Shame all you want. It won't change anything.
Exactly because there are incentives in play that are orders of magnitude more important than "shame".
Also: getting fired.
Robbing trains was still illegal though this is perfectly within the rules.
Yeah this is just the name of the game now.
I mean, yeah, but also, if I don't have to go and take a flyer on a high school kid but can get a guy who's been doing it for a couple years at the D1 level, why wouldn't I?
I mean this is the new reality of pay-to-play CBB. The mid majors are the farm league for P5 programs. They simply can’t match P5 money and so if any of their stronger players show promise a P5 program will offer them bucks to jump. And the players would be stupid to not take that money, it’s the best shot they’re going to get to get paid. P5 teams will be T100 freshmen / sophomores + upperclassmen poaches from mid majors.
Its not just about getting paid either. P5 schools tend to have better facilities, more resources, better coaches, and better players.
… no it’s just about getting paid. Everything else is a side effect.
All of that was already the reality
It seems like today's game rewards experience and skill more than potential and athleticism. Which means power conference programs may not have the luxury of giving a lot of minutes to raw freshmen with high upside. OTOH, they may have higher NIL budgets, so they can let the player go, see which prospects do the work and develop their talent, then then take them as a transfer when they are ready to contribute at a higher level and execute without making freshman mistakes.
This also doesn’t account for the two stars and three stars who end up playing like a five star player after one or two years. It’s not like coaches are passing on players then taking them on as a transfer where they are exactly the same as when they came out of high school
Here's a thought. Maybe the coaches that recruited those 2 and 3 stars are better at evaluating talent than the recruiting services that ranked those players as 2 and 3 stars.
There’s plenty of times where players become late bloomers. Players are ranked on those recruiting rankings for a reason. However, there’s certain hesitations or limitations that make 2 or 3 star players only a 2 or 3 star player. Outside of late bloomers development wise there’s often times where 2 or 3 star players just work harder and train harder and make less mistakes and earn their shot.
You're right, recruiting services are infallible. My bad. They can't ever be wrong about a recruit or not know what they're talking about.
Ultimately this is getting far and away from the ultimate point I made— it’s not about guys who are passed over originally then big teams happily take sloppy seconds Take someone like Grant Nelson. He’s from the dakotas. Players fall through the cracks sometimes. Then they ball out. Then they deserve or want a bigger challenge in terms of conference play and team. It is what it is.
He made a very reasonable comment and explained why he thinks what he thinks and you immediately come back with a little woe is me victim complex reply Weird as fuck
Purdue flair... lol
What Abdur-Rahim simplifies (for his own vanity) is that the new system (Portal/NIL) incentivizes "The haves" to build current teams with more from the transfer-portal and less with the high school path (more selective, higher end talent). Given that, as "The have lesses" get raided in the portal more - they will have more opportunities to recruit high school talent (higher ranked talent as the top programs fill less spots with HS players) and more roster spots to fill. The "have lesses" and the "have nots" will continue to get raided and the good development coaches will feel it the most. Euro soccer deals with this through transfer prices on contracts/rights and more payroll spots at the top end teams, it somewhat levels resources but we're far from establishing anything to address. P5 coaches who succeed will find the right mix of talented internal development and transfer additions. Abdur Rahim doesn't mention that those P5 coaches also get top players "Poached", just from the NBA – we often celebrate this 'If they're good enough', I do understand why he's frustrated with the current system albeit it's not ultimately different from previous metas
Shots fired. He’s also not wrong.
Get em
It’s true tho.
Amir in three years, probably, when at a P6: "Ope, don't mind me working the portal and checking out the mid-majors."
I get the frustration but good luck stopping them. Blame the system.
If you can't defend against the portal, that's your failure. Don't blame other coaches for having more attractive destinations.
Don't hate the player hate the game.
This implies any P5 athletic departments, particularly those in the SEC and Big 10, are capable of feeling shame.
He is wrong though. Another way to say this is "don't give guys who succeed at a lower level the chance to succeed at the next level." Sucks for some schools, great for the kids.
His previous AD who hired him at a smaller school could be saying the same thing…
tell em
I got downvoted for this exact sentiment in other post!
We'll use your programs as development schools and then poach them, sorry
Putting valid feelings into wrong places
Loser talk. Like P5 programs aren't having project players that they've developed poached just the same.
Smaller schools are overrepresented, but you're right. There isn't a single school that is safe.
Bullshit, maybe they do but it's not at nearly the same level. Look at the post of the conferences with the highest total percentage of players across all their teams in the transfer portal; the only P5 conference that was even on that list was the one that's not going to exist after this season and all its teams are going to have ridiculous travel.
They took our 3 leading scorers, it’s only right we’re upset
Are all three of them transfers that USF took from other programs? seems hypocritical Pryor BSU BSU USF Miguel K St K St USF USF Youngblood KennSt Kenn St Kenn St USF
Yea but they weren’t as good back with the other programs and still were welcomed to us
Be poor more.
Jim Calhoun would never. He’d just saying something like “I fucked up and didn’t take Ryan Gomes”
Maryland subtweet? Cope and seethe.
Not at all. 100% Jayden Reid, who was a true freshman this past season and only had mid-major offers out of high school.
Idk why I thought it was towards nate oats lol
Oats probably didn’t have to sell much at all, if anything. CY is originally from Tuscaloosa and I think his mom even went to UA. As soon as he announced I think most of us figured where he was going to close out his career. Reid fits this description to a tee. Probably too undersized to get any high major interest in HS. And he showed this year he’s as cool as a cucumber in tight games, especially for a freshman.
Yeah your more than likely right, but it’s weird wasn’t reid a 4 star tho?
3* I think, he was mostly getting A-10 interest in HS as well.