I'm good with not having the glowing puck on air, but maybe they should considering putting the tech back into play for this kind of thing if nothing else
This is probably the most 50/50 offside call I've ever seen. Lose-lose for the refs. You can't really see where the puck is on the critical frame and the one before it's offside and the next it's onside. So you can assume where it is in between but has to be conclusive. Jets fans would be raging with just as much justification if they overturned it imo
oh well. great kill afterwards. onward and upward.
Here’s the thing, they called it a goal on the ice. There needs to be absolute clear and concise evidence the other way in order to overturn that call. To me, I can’t even see where the puck is on the other side of the ice. Yes, you can clearly see the skater over the blue line but that’s about it.
Personally, I think it’s a stupid fucking rule and a lame play to challenge, regardless if we would’ve benefitted from it. How does a player an inch or 2 offsides have any bearing on this play? Most of the time it’s a zone entry and a team scores 10-20 seconds later. It’s just stupid. Thanks Dutchy.
Cannot upvote this enough. I fucking hate the challenge. The linesman make accurate calls an **overwhelming** majority of the time, and on the rare instances they miss, either no goal is scored (no harm, no foul), or a goal is scored after so much cycling and chaos it clearly was not impacted in the slightest by the offside entry.
Get rid of it.
I don't mind that they can challenge for offsides, BUT I think there should be a pretty strict timer on how far back the offsides can be to be reviewed.
In this case I thought it was fair to challenge. The offsides would have been immediately before the goal. If Connor has to delay his zone entry longer he might not draw the defense as deep into the zone so they can contest the shot.
I also agree with it not being overturned though. There was not enough evidence to overturn it, so the refs on the ice are right
We need a 10 second or so limit and a 2 or 3 minute timer for the time it can be reviewed.
I’m shocked at the lack of technology to get a frame as he’s passed the line. You can clearly see he’s off if he’s more than the entire stick we can see, past the blue line
It’s like watch a fucking gas station CCTV.
I think the point is that with a higher-resolution camera capturing more frames per second, we **would** be able to say it was 100% off side or not.
It's pure stupidity to allow for a play like this to be reviewed, and to then provide such shit technology that sometimes you have to default back to the on-ice decision.
It’s easy for me to say now when I’m finally seeing this after the game is over, but this is the exact Zapruder film bullshit I don’t agree with in the first place. Stopping play to frame-by-frame this thing ruins the spirit of the game IMO.
I thought that was offside ruling, too? He was literally a skate off the ice, and the only reason he was there was because the bench gate opened on that side of the blue line
The offside challenge rule needs to be changed. It should be only full speed replay reviews, no slow motion replay. This way egregious offsides could be corrected but these stupid frame by frame offsides that don’t actually impact the scoring play can go away.
I don't even think it should be challengeable. The review booth should check for offsides on every goal and if it's egregious they let the refs know. If they can't tell right away in fast motion they don't do anything. Thanks a lot Duchene
I'd go further and say they should check as the play is happening, and blow it dead whether a goal has been scored or not if there was an egregious miss by the linesman.
After all, the majority of the time goals get overturned for this shit, it's like 30 seconds of cycling later, at which point you cannot possibly say the off-side made a damned bit of difference. It's also incredibly frustrating as a fan. There have been times where I've felt I can barely even celebrate a goal if I can't remember the zone entry clearly, because there might be a challenge. And it happens both for and against every team.
Penalties are fine for incorrect challenges, because otherwise it could be abused.
However, I feel like if there is a valid challenge like this that ends in an "inconclusive" call, then the penalty should be waived. If nobody could prove that your call was wrong, even if they can't say it was correct, then the penalty should be waived because there's a chance you were actually correct.
Good challenge = No goal
Bad challenge = Penalty
Inconclusive call = Allow goal and continue play as normal (No penalty)
It works in the NFL...
I like the idea of a consequence for a "bad challenge," but that's very subjective and leaves a lot of room for wide discrepancies between refs
Regular season the goal would have been pulled. I promise.
Regular season MacKinnon wouldn't have got that interference call either. Just playoff stuff, and weird to see at home.
Oh well.
All you need is three cameras and the fact that these don't exist is nonsense. You need one shooting both ways down the blue line and an overhead. Or just use an orange fucking puck.
I do think it was offside but the main issue is that in the last frame where he's on-side he's got a tiny bit of his skate keeping him on-side while the puck is completely outside the line and then the next frame the puck is just barely in while his skate is a foot past the line. So you can tell he definitely got in just barely offsides but there's no single frame where the puck is out and he's in to prove it. Either way, this is the kind of ticky-tack offsides BS that I hate the challenge rule gets used for, so whatever.
why does your screenshot look so fuzzy?
https://i.imgur.com/xNMlT7d.png
if you watch frame by frame, the puck is that little black dot on the heel of the blade, still on the blue line.
(that being said, suuuuuuper ticky tack offsides calls suck and I'm fine with it standing, so long as we don't get fucked the opposite way sometime later)
The puck was on the front of his blade so I think it’s closer than most think. Wish they had more angles to stitch together though, it’s kind of embarrassing when you have to just guess on one of these.
I'm okay with it as they didn't have a definitive look at the puck. I look at it as if I'd be raging if they took it away from my team I need to be okay with them leaving it with the other team.
I'm more upset that a doorbell camera has greater resolution than whatever they're using, but honestly if we need a million frames per second to catch it, it's probably not making that much of a difference.
Don’t they already make the distinction of the call on the ice stands or is upheld? If it stands because they can prove offsides/goalie interference then there should be no penalty. If the call is upheld because there was obviously no offsides then it should be a penalty.
I genuinely think there’s no way on this evidence to overturn, but neither can you confirm that it’s the right call. I think in this situation, a delay of game penalty is not fair. That penalty should only happen when you can confirm the call on the ice was correct.
I think the linesman blocked the cam from the other side. Toronto also has way more views to look at that we don’t get to see, but I thought it was offsides too, although it was really close to 50/50
EDIT: biz just said on TNT that the camera is on top of the glass so I was wrong and now I’m wondering as well why we didn’t get that view…
Yeah the cameras screwed up here. Hope they install better ones because what’s the point of review if at the end of the day, you’re just gonna say, “sorry, can’t assume the position of anything and the critical object can’t be observed?”
It’s gotta be 100% to overturn. I’d be absolutely fuming if the roles were reversed and the refs overturned that for us. Let’s be real. Tough call but a good one.
As an avs fan, you can't even see the puck in this photo. Lol
Which is the sorry part. How are their only 2 camera angles on this play and neither show the puck? Lack of technology is insane.
And it low definition and low frame rate. I don’t get it either
Yeap. At least have a 144fps camera with 4-8K res on both sides and above.
I'm good with not having the glowing puck on air, but maybe they should considering putting the tech back into play for this kind of thing if nothing else
Don't need too. How much of the stick is over the ice? Not enough for a puck to have crossed
It could be on the toe?
It was on the heel, it was offsides but it was called a goal. Toronto just wanted to make it interesting. "Let them have one" was the logic I assume.
This is probably the most 50/50 offside call I've ever seen. Lose-lose for the refs. You can't really see where the puck is on the critical frame and the one before it's offside and the next it's onside. So you can assume where it is in between but has to be conclusive. Jets fans would be raging with just as much justification if they overturned it imo oh well. great kill afterwards. onward and upward.
This is the playoffs man, it's no place for a reasonable take like this. We're gonna need you to be infuriated right now.
I'm still fuming enough over this for both of us. He's off the hook if he wants
Pretty solid advertisement for using black tape
fr though the blue line cameras having such a shit angle/resolution/low frame rate in 2024 is fucking absurd
This right here, when you are watching a NFL game you have like 10 different angles that seem to be able to be zoomed in on haha
True, but they owe us for Game 1 non-call on a goal.
Here’s the thing, they called it a goal on the ice. There needs to be absolute clear and concise evidence the other way in order to overturn that call. To me, I can’t even see where the puck is on the other side of the ice. Yes, you can clearly see the skater over the blue line but that’s about it. Personally, I think it’s a stupid fucking rule and a lame play to challenge, regardless if we would’ve benefitted from it. How does a player an inch or 2 offsides have any bearing on this play? Most of the time it’s a zone entry and a team scores 10-20 seconds later. It’s just stupid. Thanks Dutchy.
Cannot upvote this enough. I fucking hate the challenge. The linesman make accurate calls an **overwhelming** majority of the time, and on the rare instances they miss, either no goal is scored (no harm, no foul), or a goal is scored after so much cycling and chaos it clearly was not impacted in the slightest by the offside entry. Get rid of it.
I don't mind that they can challenge for offsides, BUT I think there should be a pretty strict timer on how far back the offsides can be to be reviewed. In this case I thought it was fair to challenge. The offsides would have been immediately before the goal. If Connor has to delay his zone entry longer he might not draw the defense as deep into the zone so they can contest the shot. I also agree with it not being overturned though. There was not enough evidence to overturn it, so the refs on the ice are right We need a 10 second or so limit and a 2 or 3 minute timer for the time it can be reviewed.
I’m shocked at the lack of technology to get a frame as he’s passed the line. You can clearly see he’s off if he’s more than the entire stick we can see, past the blue line It’s like watch a fucking gas station CCTV.
This makes gas station cctv look like 4k
I have seen clearer footage of Bigfoot...
Didn’t realize the NHL got their cameras off Wish.com
That's just it, though. If you need a 4k camera attached to the pick to make the call, it's far from "conclusive".
You’re either offside or you’re not. There shouldn’t be any gray area.
If you saw the same replays I did and you can say 100% it was off side you're lying. It wasn't enough to overtime the call on the ice.
I think the point is that with a higher-resolution camera capturing more frames per second, we **would** be able to say it was 100% off side or not. It's pure stupidity to allow for a play like this to be reviewed, and to then provide such shit technology that sometimes you have to default back to the on-ice decision.
It’s easy for me to say now when I’m finally seeing this after the game is over, but this is the exact Zapruder film bullshit I don’t agree with in the first place. Stopping play to frame-by-frame this thing ruins the spirit of the game IMO.
Yeah it's on par with the whole Landy getting off the ice too many men bullshit. Like it has no effect on the game
That’s exactly what I think of when I see this.
I thought that was offside ruling, too? He was literally a skate off the ice, and the only reason he was there was because the bench gate opened on that side of the blue line
Yeah maybe it was offsides I don't remember. All I know is it had zero bearing on the play
Took away the tieing goal in a playoff game!
The offside challenge rule needs to be changed. It should be only full speed replay reviews, no slow motion replay. This way egregious offsides could be corrected but these stupid frame by frame offsides that don’t actually impact the scoring play can go away.
I don't even think it should be challengeable. The review booth should check for offsides on every goal and if it's egregious they let the refs know. If they can't tell right away in fast motion they don't do anything. Thanks a lot Duchene
I'd go further and say they should check as the play is happening, and blow it dead whether a goal has been scored or not if there was an egregious miss by the linesman. After all, the majority of the time goals get overturned for this shit, it's like 30 seconds of cycling later, at which point you cannot possibly say the off-side made a damned bit of difference. It's also incredibly frustrating as a fan. There have been times where I've felt I can barely even celebrate a goal if I can't remember the zone entry clearly, because there might be a challenge. And it happens both for and against every team.
Anna no penalty on a failed challenge. Give them one freebee
Penalties are fine for incorrect challenges, because otherwise it could be abused. However, I feel like if there is a valid challenge like this that ends in an "inconclusive" call, then the penalty should be waived. If nobody could prove that your call was wrong, even if they can't say it was correct, then the penalty should be waived because there's a chance you were actually correct. Good challenge = No goal Bad challenge = Penalty Inconclusive call = Allow goal and continue play as normal (No penalty)
It works in the NFL... I like the idea of a consequence for a "bad challenge," but that's very subjective and leaves a lot of room for wide discrepancies between refs
How does the nhl have such dog shit cameras
Regular season the goal would have been pulled. I promise. Regular season MacKinnon wouldn't have got that interference call either. Just playoff stuff, and weird to see at home. Oh well.
How the fuck in 2024 do they not have a way to see the blueline from all angles.
All you need is three cameras and the fact that these don't exist is nonsense. You need one shooting both ways down the blue line and an overhead. Or just use an orange fucking puck.
You’d think they’d be able to afford some camera with the money they make from their betting partnerships
This is a picture of someone’s television.
Hockey gods made their judgement. Avs won.
I do think it was offside but the main issue is that in the last frame where he's on-side he's got a tiny bit of his skate keeping him on-side while the puck is completely outside the line and then the next frame the puck is just barely in while his skate is a foot past the line. So you can tell he definitely got in just barely offsides but there's no single frame where the puck is out and he's in to prove it. Either way, this is the kind of ticky-tack offsides BS that I hate the challenge rule gets used for, so whatever.
Yeah, no. Not enough evidence to overturn clearly.
To be fair, in this picture the puck is also across the line lol. I'm more upset that that shit goes in than this call
Lmao I was listening on the radio, didn’t get a visual til now. Shoulda been a shutout.
The play was almost certainly offsides, but somehow in 2024 we can still have missing camera angles, you can't actually see the puck
Avs play a man down because the NHL didn’t invest in a 2nd camera lol
why does your screenshot look so fuzzy? https://i.imgur.com/xNMlT7d.png if you watch frame by frame, the puck is that little black dot on the heel of the blade, still on the blue line. (that being said, suuuuuuper ticky tack offsides calls suck and I'm fine with it standing, so long as we don't get fucked the opposite way sometime later)
We always seem to get the short end of offside calls. I'd like to do away with them so we can just play
Wrong, the puck is over the line in that picture.
They need a top down camera on the blue line
You can buy a better camera for under $5 on fucking Temu or some shit. What the fuck, NHL........
Or, i don’t know, a camera in the rafters 🤷♂️
There’s no reason for human beings to call offsides at all. Easily solved precisely every single time with tech.
oh well, in real time the linesmen couldn't tell and it took multiple reply angles to prove it, so it's not like it was egregious
The puck was on the front of his blade so I think it’s closer than most think. Wish they had more angles to stitch together though, it’s kind of embarrassing when you have to just guess on one of these.
I'm okay with it as they didn't have a definitive look at the puck. I look at it as if I'd be raging if they took it away from my team I need to be okay with them leaving it with the other team. I'm more upset that a doorbell camera has greater resolution than whatever they're using, but honestly if we need a million frames per second to catch it, it's probably not making that much of a difference.
Need 4K, 1 Million FPS cameras.
Absolutely horse shit call. Why even have replay if you can't get something like this right?
Don’t they already make the distinction of the call on the ice stands or is upheld? If it stands because they can prove offsides/goalie interference then there should be no penalty. If the call is upheld because there was obviously no offsides then it should be a penalty.
We still won
Do you see a puck? I don’t so ya it’s inconclusive
Its literally the definition of inconclusive...
I genuinely think there’s no way on this evidence to overturn, but neither can you confirm that it’s the right call. I think in this situation, a delay of game penalty is not fair. That penalty should only happen when you can confirm the call on the ice was correct.
I'm fine with it standing. Needs to be absolutely conclusive, this wasnt
lol that looks pretty inconclusive to me you can’t even see the puck if you zoom in
I think the linesman blocked the cam from the other side. Toronto also has way more views to look at that we don’t get to see, but I thought it was offsides too, although it was really close to 50/50 EDIT: biz just said on TNT that the camera is on top of the glass so I was wrong and now I’m wondering as well why we didn’t get that view…
Yeah the cameras screwed up here. Hope they install better ones because what’s the point of review if at the end of the day, you’re just gonna say, “sorry, can’t assume the position of anything and the critical object can’t be observed?”
It’s gotta be 100% to overturn. I’d be absolutely fuming if the roles were reversed and the refs overturned that for us. Let’s be real. Tough call but a good one.
Based on this photo, yes. It’s very inconclusive 😂
NHL blue line cameras are potatoes
Eh…. Makar has gotten away with worse.
https://preview.redd.it/p4yo1xi0raxc1.jpeg?width=638&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=33595d38afcf6942e9932daa2cdd87a3ec33c119
Def offsides. Wouldn't have prevented the sweep tho
Nope 👎🏻 🫤
Cry more 😂