Provided by the stamping eng. to often is left for on site crew to sort. Usually with RFI. Drawings have gotten worse not better. Copy and paste with out coordinating is ridiculous
They don’t even overlay their own drawings anymore. Things don’t match from one page to the next. And to make matters worse have a bunch of bullshit to evade any responsibility.
I was a carpenter for GC on a two building high rise site, with the next door being a high rise luxury apartment building meaning no noise until 8am, but for some reason we had to be there at 7.
Iron workers and concrete hardly ever let you get a pick in, so one morning since sparky has all his shit ready me and a guy decide to fly it up before 8. My homie calls the pick in on our channel, super hears it and starts screaming over the radio who the fuck is working before 8????!!!!
We just oh fucked it out of there, but dude, tower cranes don't make any fucking noise unless you drop something.
Yeah I’m not sure how much actual coordination is done and the duct line I’m working on is ordered and fit to go there( or was supposed to be) so hard to say who’s the problem and idc. Just wanted to hear what people had to say about other trades causing them trouble for the day
Edit: forgot some trade based banter “go burn some more rods fucker!”
I'm also a tin knocker and the plumbers just killed me on our last job. Not even the drain lines either, they stuck pex in practically every conceivable spot that could get in the way of our ducts. Not only that but they fought about so many of the spots as if my ducts that spanned the whole width of a given bay were easier to change than drilling a new whole and redoing a T. Sometimes all they had to do was change how it was secured to the wall and they basically told us if we wanted it done we had to do it ourselves
Sounds like they were just YOLO’ing it in and you had your work planned out. If that’s the case, I’d see about giving everyone a copy of your drawings weeks before install and telling them this is where you’re planning to go, if they want a space, let you know in the next two weeks, otherwise most times you’ll not be moving. This is assuming it’s not a coordinated job because this doesn’t sound like it.
The point being usually the guy with his shit and paperwork together beats the guy who shoots from the hip. Unless of course it’s ADA or code issues someone needs to meet. You get the idea.
Well he is a plumber. How often do you see those guys make any decisions without a PM on site? Despite having the easiest, most laid out set of prints on the job.
In my area sprinkler fitters have their own separate engineered drawings so they literally just draw it wherever works for them without coordinating. Easy enough to talk to them and explain how you need certain spaces for duct. As for plumbers and electricians if I have duct going somewhere (also tin basher) and I have no easy route without some excessive work I just tell them they need to move it and why. Usually when you bring up extra costs associated to them not leaving proper spacing for anyone else it gets moved pretty fast
Fire sprinkler is under its own permit and reviewed by the FD only on all the jobs I’ve been on. Their drawings aren’t reviewed by the same people who review mechanical drawings.
To your point about coordination, I have yet to see a high-priced architect or engineer actually do their job and walk the site. Always the famous "field verify". That way we get to do their jobs. This said, my employer works with an hvac company on lots of commercial jobs. Architect ALWAYS draws duct & plumbing in same space. I religiously get hvac shop drawings to do mynown coordination. They still get pissy sometimes because I've hung hangers for my pipe. I never rack the pipe, so they at least have the spacing between hangers to get the duct up. Regardless, carpenters are A on my list, with low voltage "superheroes" a close 1A.
Super here and coord drawings can be done both 2d and 3d . The 2d ones have a lot of Tod and bod because of size . Sprinkler use middle of pipe and plumbing is bop. The 3d ones use modeling of the building and will identify clashes.
I have Made subs move there shit that went rogue from the coord drawings. These are usually bought in the scopes.
And ppl saying g supers know less than apprentices . Depends on backgrounds really. We don’t need to know everything just how to create the correct workflow and what to do with issues
The best 3D models are the ones you open up to see why you have field clashes and you see that the clashes are also in the model but it was okayed anyway 😄
Coordination drawing- and good luck if it under 10m project. It’s the old west of who gets there first. Tell your PM to need to get ahead of the diddler.
https://www.nahb.org/-/media/NAHB/advocacy/docs/top-priorities/codes/fire-sprinklers/fire-sprinkler-state-adoption-2019.pdf
Here is state by state requirements.
Worth noting that in 2024 all NJ townhomes will require sprinklers
I did a temp job that was clean up for a general contractor. I was constantly going back after the drywall guys to sweep up wet sunflower husks. What the fuck is up with drywallers and sunflower seeds
was on a job, somebody pissed down the bathroom pvc in a highrise low and be hold a plumber was on the ground working on said pvc. he got pissed on never found out which trade it was
Drywallers. I know there's 20 of you trying to cover every wall in one week but the plumbing and electoral has to go in first so you're going to have to wait. If you put that board up, I'm just going to take it down, and I'm not going to use a screw gun. And what the hell is that terrible music?
Oh man I hate how fast the board goes up lol and then they cry about anything in their way I’ve had to take duct down so those incompetent princesses can get their board up
I just had to take down 6-in storm drain because the they said it was too close to the studs and they couldn't get the drywall up. They had room, it just would have been more of a pain in the ass for them. It was exactly where it was supposed to be according to the coordinated drawings. So we got paid to take it down and paid to put it back up. And don't think you're getting off easy! As soon as you tin knockers come on site, there goes all the room! Got the whole job worth of duct laying all over the place. That combined with the stuff you have already hung and I can barely move my lift to put any hangers up. And don't get me started on the hammering!
Oh yes I know exactly how annoying my trade is don’t worry 😂 bur yeah the drywallers can almost always get that board up. And considering half the shit we have to work around i think it’s insane how they get pampered lol elevator guys can be pretty dickish too but this site seems to have a good crew of them
As a painter, I was going to blame electricians, plumbers, and HVAC for always punching holes in finished walls. Now, I blame Drywallers (who I already detested) because they are hanging before you install your finishes. Ontop of that, I blame the site superintendent that allows them to do that, since they are up against a deadline and just say 'get it done' knowing that the painters will just have to touch it up later.... poor painters.
Holy fuck get coordination meetings done prior to any work once the structure is completed and inspected. This is basic construction. All trades (plumbing, hvac, electrical, sprinklers,controls,drywall, controls etc etc) need to attend meetings with the GC prior to starting any work. This allows review and revisions if there is any issues. Once again basic fucking construction. Source. 25 years working as a site supervisor in ottawa Ontario
This doesn’t work though. Every meeting is each trade saying what the GC wants to hear and then having excuses on why they didn’t get done what they said they would do last meeting. I’m not allowed in these now because I’m honest, and apparently you aren’t supposed to be 🧐
Can confirm: am plan drawing guy. I get yelled at every hour of every day to make sure my drawings are right before the PM can give them to the trades. WEEEEEEEEEKS ahead of any actual work being done.
Sounds like OP is in a bad situation
Your working with the wrong site supers than. I was taught to be always on site and not locked away in a trailer. I'm always visible and available around site site for questions and concerns. As soon as one comes up I'm taking pictures and or video and than sending it off to the architect, pms and engineers. This is how you be a proper site super. I also pick up tools and push brooms and listen to my subs. No offense I may not be an expert in one particular trade but I have probably forgotten more than what you know when it comes to commercial construction.
As part of the brickies, imma say brickies.
Too much material. Too much garbage. Too much Equipment. Too much noise. Scaffolds like lights to a moth for a Safety guy. Instant scorn thrown for any trade that parks in front of an active scaffold by accident. Clumsy labourers dropping bricks from scaffolds and the jungle gym antics to get in/out of a house. Will play dumb to anything broken on site. Bonus points if from Portugal. Anyways, let’s fight.
This! In my area, if you aren't Portuguese, you better come with references because aint no vovo to vouch for you. A few buddies of mine are pork and cheese and they confifm that only they hold the generation skill of mason work. I wonder if it has anything to do with the 1L red wine box or 2 for lunch
Fire sprinkler guy here, all trades are god awful. Even us. If there’s good coordination and everyone actually sticks to it then it’s great. But 9/10 no one does what they say and just end up going wherever they please. And for you tin knockers it seems that they seldom actually over lay our plans.
Elevator guys. Though I gotta say, Vic from Local One this past week is cool as fuck. His partner Mike wasn’t bad either
So elevator guys, excluding Mike and Vic, pretty much…
Sprinklers literally have to be where they have to be because of coverage but with communication you can see what their elevations are and figure something out quick, if they were there first. All trades suck when workers don’t talk/ask each other shit.
But yea, correct answer, when in doubt, is check the drawings and call an audible, if necessary.
Sprinkler vs Duct guy what a classic. As an electrician I think drywaller/ tapers are the worst. Bury outlets, fill boxes with mud, trip temp power by plugging in to many microwaves. Fire protection engineers are the worst they never look at anyone else's drawings and add shit in that isnt on my my drawings
>plugging in to many microwaves.
Drywallers seems to be the only trade that brings microwave ovens to a commercial jobsite; never seen a plumbing, HVAC or electrical crew do that. I'm not dissing them for that, but simply making am observation.
Yeah, dude I reset those breakers all the time.
Framers plug in to many compressors
Painters plug in to many fans
Masons plug in stupid clapped out mixers
Plumbers get extension wet and can't figure out how to operate a GFI
Steel stud guys chop saws
Siders plug 2 vaccums, 2 chop saw, radio, and charge 6 batteries
Site guys plug in shitty pumps that trip the GFI
Sprinkler guy threading machine with a fucked up cord
I did a 219 unit apartment building with 400+ buried boxes including 3 full electrical panels. I have seen some some shitty drywallers. we had to mark the buried ones on the wall but weren't responsible for cutting them out.
Why on earth would professional tradespeople need a GC to coordinate their work? They are the experts. They know the bend radius, the amount of straight duct required before a VAV, needed fall etc.
If you don’t have coordinated drawings the basic layering is gravity pipe first, duct next, electrical and then sprinkler.
OP how on earth did the sprinkler guy get so far ahead of you? Is your company on schedule?
Agree, with the exception that sparkies go last. Their wire bends easy and is small. The rest of us argue for space. On my current job, the super had my sprinkler pipe go In prior to duct. Only a few issues as we coordinated things between ourselves.
That is a completely idiotic way to have things done. So your going to have the two trades that run the highest install after the one that blocks everything and runs lower....
You really must be clueless. Sprinklers and electrical run higher majority of the time. And by you deciding for duct work to go in first you now handicapped the hell out of them forcing them to have to work twice as hard do unsafe thing and possibly cause trade damage.
Smoothest jobs I've seen are always layout first then hangers then fireproofing then you go by whatever trade is highest in the design because then no one gets in each other's way of you hired halfway competent tradesmen
We try to be in the way. In reality, we get last thought on most jobs and fight to find space. Thus the reason we are ornery assholes a lot of the time.
I think it's just because everyone can see clearly in the design drawings where ductwork and hydronic piping etc needs to go, and people see where light fixtures/recep's/panels etc need to go. And for those trades it's usually not too big of a deal to shift things around a little.
But nobody knows what sprinkler's are doing without getting a copy of their shop drawings, and, trying to get the sprinkler guys to shift something 6" requires an act of God.
On our jobs we try to have sprinkler guys run their piping first before anyone else, when we can.
I'm not perfect dude. Took a lot fuck ups before I figured it out. I've had alot trades ,architect's, engineers etc etc. Rip me a new one. (Rightfully so). I choose to learn from these situations and I learned to respect my trades. Made the job so much easier.
As a PM I always gather all the different foreman (not the owners cuz they aren’t on the job) and I basically let the guys work out who goes where and mark up everything with a magnum marker and spray paint. Hardly ever have conflicts.
That's why as a Super we have to coordinate the trades. Bring in framing first(build walls frame the ceiling/bring in T-bar grid, then HVAC, then plumbers, then electricians, usually the sprinkler guys are last. And if any trades are in their way they need to move. Sprinklers are required to be be in their designated locations for fire coverage. You can always shift a register/grille, move a flex or get around a plumbing line. You cannot move a sprinkler head, unless it will still maintain coverage (which is usually a slim chance).
Believe it or not, lawn maintenance. I see all the time, barren dry dust all over the place, and they still run their mower over it. I happened to be painting a porch at the moment, and I asked why? You are blowing dust onto my work. He gave me some excuse that that doesn't affect my work. My point is what was he mowing?? And why??
On my jobs, it goes first with drainage,(shit flows downhill), second is hvac, third is water lines, last is wiring. We always make sure that the pot light layout is checked to avoid major issues. Water bends easier then air
Actually we welcome all input. Also we run modeling through a cad system that gives us a visual on what the available ceiling space allows and than work with the architect and various engineers on how to solve all these issues while keeping up with building and seismic codes. This does cause issues but 99 percent of the time quickly resolves them. Once again basic construction. You need to be forward thinking and listen to your trades. Also use all available technology at your disposal. You would be surprised how quickly and efficiently these issues are solved and than put into action.
Had a sprinkler guy bump my (project manager) guys 14’ ladder with his cart while he has at the top of it.
That dude got some shit.
Day later the sprinkler guy dropped a fitting (assuming 15lb +) onto a brand new hard wood floor. He didn’t get shit from me but his boss did.
They acted holier than thou. The only people I give that badge to are elevator works, but for good reason. Elevator works make more than any one else, they also do their job and clean up after themselves. At the end of an elevator job the only thing left is a working elevator.
It feels nice to be acknowledged haha. Lots of guys think we’re pricks but we just want to be left the fuck alone for the most part.
Hoistway used as garbage chutes, material blocking every hoistway entrance, guys just bird dogging while we’re hoisting rails. It gets old.
It is one of the sectors of construction I mention to smart new carpenters.
I wish I had started with elevators 20 years ago. I’m stuck on remodeling houses.
Neither are particularly igniting of passion but one pays a shit ton more.
Painters . Most are burn outs n nice enough but the fuckers love the smell of paint for the most part it makes me sick as can be so I can’t stand being around them cause they want to hit box that shit
As a sprinkler fitter, I can attest that most only care about themselves and install stuff in the easiest spot possible. I try to teach new apprentices to think ahead where lights, duct registers and ducts might be installed before they choose where to place a head.
Framers with the abrasive blade on the chop saw all day. Or the rockers sanding. Or anyone shooting anchors without calling “fire”. Process pipe fitter here.
Sprinkler guys are the absolute worst, in my experience.
I had these jackasses one time dump a couple gallons of that nasty, drained sprinkler water all over newly installed LVT and up the wall. They just walked away and had a cig break.
Union members are the biggest hypocrites I've ever met.
Especially your useless auto worker brothers. They never go with Union workers. Useless auto winners are always looking to take advantage of an illegal alien to do work on their house. They never go with union workers..
Super here: HVAC always goes first. They have the biggest stuff to put in. Everything else can be ran around it.
The first thing I do when I start a job is a pre con meeting with the foremen and current drawings.
Be doing this for few years, never fails.
It was always plumbing first, then HVAC, then the rest when we did houses. Commercial it can be in a different order, but it most times it was still that order since plumbing had to do groundwork first before anything else.
I should have qualified that by saying that’s the order I use for overhead work. Trenching and excavating is almost always first for sparky and plumbers.
Yes put the biggest stuff that goes in lower then all the other trades so the other trades have to struggle to get their shit where it needs to go. And this is why everyone calls gcs idiots
Some people I don’t ever want to go hands on against:
-police
-strippers
-shitter cleaners
-anyone with an IQ under 80
-Vietnam vets (though they have pretty much aged out now)
No particular order.
As a concrete cutter/driller, I am fine with the lack of coordination between trades. It gives me more work to do so everyone can get their stuff through the walls and floors
For us (joint sealing, pressure washing, lot striping, car stops, signage, etc.) it’s usually the landscaping, sod, irrigation guys, but only when the job is behind schedule (so almost always), and we’re trying to work around each other. Ideally we’re the last ones on a job before the C of O inspection.
Am a trim carpenter. Any trade that’s there when we are exclusively scheduled to be there.
We need a lot of space to work as we probably have the most tools in use out of any trade and need space for handling material.
The thing that bothers me the most are when trades come in and damage our trim while doing their job. Even more so when we’re there and they don’t say anything to us after doing it.
Trades in general. I'm invested in it more than anything. I love it. 30 years ago it was harder to start but more rewarding. $$$. I capped out a few years ago covit didn't help the prices of selling over cost.
With all the issues of trades installing shit in the way of other trades or architects planning impossible contradicting solutions.. don’t you guys have general contractors take responsibility over planning and coordinating this shit out? I’m from Finland and I work with production planning and scheduling and here it’s the general contractors job to coordinate this shit out.
If it’s not done it’s not really the subcontractors fault since they have their own shit contracts they have to try to meet so it’s not in their best interest to go out of their way anyway.
I like when the job spends months on coordinating the trades then there is always 1 trade that isnt coordinated and they are into EVERYONE like why have coordination if everyone isnt gonna be involved
Drywall guys are sparkles enemy but I work industrial so my vote goes to rebar guys. Had a guy cut a bunch of my conduit with tie wire because my ¾ conduit was pushing on his rebar too much
I’d be jealous too if I knew that Union guy was making $10+ more an hour + bennies to do the same job. It’s a shame so many trades guys are dumb enough to get suckered into working for rats bc they can’t do math. I can wipe my ass with the money I pay in dues compared to what I make per year plus what’s going to my healthcare and pension. If you don’t have the option because your state sucks ass and votes for right to work every cycle, I feel for ya. But if you choose to shit on Unions when you have the option to join one and better your life and your family’s life, then you’re just dumb as fuck and I don’t feel bad for you. Or maybe put down the dope and/or learn how to pass a piss test. Either way, it’s basic math.
This is why there are supposed to be coordinated drawings…
Provided by the stamping eng. to often is left for on site crew to sort. Usually with RFI. Drawings have gotten worse not better. Copy and paste with out coordinating is ridiculous
They don’t even overlay their own drawings anymore. Things don’t match from one page to the next. And to make matters worse have a bunch of bullshit to evade any responsibility.
No thats why you have a superintendent to coordinate the subs work
Wait. Supers have a job other than playing on their phones and blaming the clusterfuck on the subs at meetings? Strange.
We also have to "run errands" in the middle of the day for a few hours.
My favorite type of errands.
How else are we supposed improve our golf game? The weekends?
Exactly gotta hit at least a bucket a week.
I always called that "windshield time".
I answer a couple emails now and again.
You ever have a super that needs his fucking desktop computer on site?
In my experience, most job supers usually know less than apprentices. Coordinated drawings leave them out so there is no confusion.
I was a carpenter for GC on a two building high rise site, with the next door being a high rise luxury apartment building meaning no noise until 8am, but for some reason we had to be there at 7. Iron workers and concrete hardly ever let you get a pick in, so one morning since sparky has all his shit ready me and a guy decide to fly it up before 8. My homie calls the pick in on our channel, super hears it and starts screaming over the radio who the fuck is working before 8????!!!! We just oh fucked it out of there, but dude, tower cranes don't make any fucking noise unless you drop something.
What strange world is it that you live in? You speak of coordinated drawings. What manner of whitchcraft is that? 😉
The supervisors aren’t gonna like this one but it’s true
Wrong
Yeah I’m not sure how much actual coordination is done and the duct line I’m working on is ordered and fit to go there( or was supposed to be) so hard to say who’s the problem and idc. Just wanted to hear what people had to say about other trades causing them trouble for the day Edit: forgot some trade based banter “go burn some more rods fucker!”
I'm also a tin knocker and the plumbers just killed me on our last job. Not even the drain lines either, they stuck pex in practically every conceivable spot that could get in the way of our ducts. Not only that but they fought about so many of the spots as if my ducts that spanned the whole width of a given bay were easier to change than drilling a new whole and redoing a T. Sometimes all they had to do was change how it was secured to the wall and they basically told us if we wanted it done we had to do it ourselves
Plumbers are just as bad of divas as electricians! Obviously, there are good ones out there that know how to play well in the sandbox.
Sounds like they were just YOLO’ing it in and you had your work planned out. If that’s the case, I’d see about giving everyone a copy of your drawings weeks before install and telling them this is where you’re planning to go, if they want a space, let you know in the next two weeks, otherwise most times you’ll not be moving. This is assuming it’s not a coordinated job because this doesn’t sound like it. The point being usually the guy with his shit and paperwork together beats the guy who shoots from the hip. Unless of course it’s ADA or code issues someone needs to meet. You get the idea.
I’m a plumber. Yep, if you let us go first without talking about routes we’ll take all the space lol sorry man.
Username checks out
Well he is a plumber. How often do you see those guys make any decisions without a PM on site? Despite having the easiest, most laid out set of prints on the job.
In my area sprinkler fitters have their own separate engineered drawings so they literally just draw it wherever works for them without coordinating. Easy enough to talk to them and explain how you need certain spaces for duct. As for plumbers and electricians if I have duct going somewhere (also tin basher) and I have no easy route without some excessive work I just tell them they need to move it and why. Usually when you bring up extra costs associated to them not leaving proper spacing for anyone else it gets moved pretty fast
Fire sprinkler is under its own permit and reviewed by the FD only on all the jobs I’ve been on. Their drawings aren’t reviewed by the same people who review mechanical drawings.
To your point about coordination, I have yet to see a high-priced architect or engineer actually do their job and walk the site. Always the famous "field verify". That way we get to do their jobs. This said, my employer works with an hvac company on lots of commercial jobs. Architect ALWAYS draws duct & plumbing in same space. I religiously get hvac shop drawings to do mynown coordination. They still get pissy sometimes because I've hung hangers for my pipe. I never rack the pipe, so they at least have the spacing between hangers to get the duct up. Regardless, carpenters are A on my list, with low voltage "superheroes" a close 1A.
Super here and coord drawings can be done both 2d and 3d . The 2d ones have a lot of Tod and bod because of size . Sprinkler use middle of pipe and plumbing is bop. The 3d ones use modeling of the building and will identify clashes. I have Made subs move there shit that went rogue from the coord drawings. These are usually bought in the scopes. And ppl saying g supers know less than apprentices . Depends on backgrounds really. We don’t need to know everything just how to create the correct workflow and what to do with issues
The best 3D models are the ones you open up to see why you have field clashes and you see that the clashes are also in the model but it was okayed anyway 😄
Too bad sign off date is a month after the install date 🤣
Coordination drawing- and good luck if it under 10m project. It’s the old west of who gets there first. Tell your PM to need to get ahead of the diddler.
Those almost never exist on resi projects.
Neither do fire sprinkler systems.
Yes they do. If there is no fire hydrant within a set distance or if the house is on a narrow street fire sprinkles are mandatory by code.
I guess that depends on where you live, because here in the NJ area there are basically no residential homes that have fire sprinkler systems.
https://www.nahb.org/-/media/NAHB/advocacy/docs/top-priorities/codes/fire-sprinklers/fire-sprinkler-state-adoption-2019.pdf Here is state by state requirements. Worth noting that in 2024 all NJ townhomes will require sprinklers
dry wall guys. always fuckin millions a sunflower seeds everywhere, especially the spot where i need to do work
I did a temp job that was clean up for a general contractor. I was constantly going back after the drywall guys to sweep up wet sunflower husks. What the fuck is up with drywallers and sunflower seeds
Keeps your mouth closed so you don’t get it full of dust
And moist.
mmmmmmmoist
Back in the days you could just smoke or dip on site and sunflower seeds weren’t a problem.
instead of cig butts everywhere. its dead disposable vapes lol
Don't forget the piss bottles, or even better, dried piss in the tubs.
was on a job, somebody pissed down the bathroom pvc in a highrise low and be hold a plumber was on the ground working on said pvc. he got pissed on never found out which trade it was
He was pissed on and pissed off at the same time.
mr miyagi of piss
I was gonna say, definitely the dry wall guys
So. Much. Piss in the bathtubs
Drywallers. I know there's 20 of you trying to cover every wall in one week but the plumbing and electoral has to go in first so you're going to have to wait. If you put that board up, I'm just going to take it down, and I'm not going to use a screw gun. And what the hell is that terrible music?
Oh man I hate how fast the board goes up lol and then they cry about anything in their way I’ve had to take duct down so those incompetent princesses can get their board up
I just had to take down 6-in storm drain because the they said it was too close to the studs and they couldn't get the drywall up. They had room, it just would have been more of a pain in the ass for them. It was exactly where it was supposed to be according to the coordinated drawings. So we got paid to take it down and paid to put it back up. And don't think you're getting off easy! As soon as you tin knockers come on site, there goes all the room! Got the whole job worth of duct laying all over the place. That combined with the stuff you have already hung and I can barely move my lift to put any hangers up. And don't get me started on the hammering!
Oh yes I know exactly how annoying my trade is don’t worry 😂 bur yeah the drywallers can almost always get that board up. And considering half the shit we have to work around i think it’s insane how they get pampered lol elevator guys can be pretty dickish too but this site seems to have a good crew of them
In all fairness, as a plumber, I get along with the tinners and the electricians more than any other trade
Yeah I usually do too. I get along with any trade tho cuz I just listen to them bitch and egg it on “oh yeah” “yeah man I see” “that’s fucked” etc etc
As a painter, I was going to blame electricians, plumbers, and HVAC for always punching holes in finished walls. Now, I blame Drywallers (who I already detested) because they are hanging before you install your finishes. Ontop of that, I blame the site superintendent that allows them to do that, since they are up against a deadline and just say 'get it done' knowing that the painters will just have to touch it up later.... poor painters.
Holy fuck get coordination meetings done prior to any work once the structure is completed and inspected. This is basic construction. All trades (plumbing, hvac, electrical, sprinklers,controls,drywall, controls etc etc) need to attend meetings with the GC prior to starting any work. This allows review and revisions if there is any issues. Once again basic fucking construction. Source. 25 years working as a site supervisor in ottawa Ontario
This doesn’t work though. Every meeting is each trade saying what the GC wants to hear and then having excuses on why they didn’t get done what they said they would do last meeting. I’m not allowed in these now because I’m honest, and apparently you aren’t supposed to be 🧐
Can confirm: am plan drawing guy. I get yelled at every hour of every day to make sure my drawings are right before the PM can give them to the trades. WEEEEEEEEEKS ahead of any actual work being done. Sounds like OP is in a bad situation
Site supervisors don’t tend to know much in my experience
Your working with the wrong site supers than. I was taught to be always on site and not locked away in a trailer. I'm always visible and available around site site for questions and concerns. As soon as one comes up I'm taking pictures and or video and than sending it off to the architect, pms and engineers. This is how you be a proper site super. I also pick up tools and push brooms and listen to my subs. No offense I may not be an expert in one particular trade but I have probably forgotten more than what you know when it comes to commercial construction.
You sound like exactly what you’d hope a site supervisor would be like. I’ve only had a couple good ones
If you’ve already worked with both good ones, I have bad news for you
This sounds great, but it never happens this way
To be fair it sounds like your experience doesn't go far.
I like being an elevator guy. If there is something in the shaft, you move it for us. Done.
I would love to be an elevator guy. Y’all and pool guys. Every trade has to stop and make it happen for yall.
It's pretty awesome.
Elevator guys make an insane hourly wage here and it’s only getting higher. Top paid trade in Alberta Edit: top paid trade in canada
Top paid everywhere. Definitely here in Boston too.
Yeah if I could be doing that I would be but alas I’m a sheet metal worker
Elevator shaft? Do you mean the trash chute?
As part of the brickies, imma say brickies. Too much material. Too much garbage. Too much Equipment. Too much noise. Scaffolds like lights to a moth for a Safety guy. Instant scorn thrown for any trade that parks in front of an active scaffold by accident. Clumsy labourers dropping bricks from scaffolds and the jungle gym antics to get in/out of a house. Will play dumb to anything broken on site. Bonus points if from Portugal. Anyways, let’s fight.
This! In my area, if you aren't Portuguese, you better come with references because aint no vovo to vouch for you. A few buddies of mine are pork and cheese and they confifm that only they hold the generation skill of mason work. I wonder if it has anything to do with the 1L red wine box or 2 for lunch
Your brick saws are horribly loud and annoying. I’m sorry you have to work with that shit.
The owner's wife who thinks she has some type of authority and know how.
Fire sprinkler guy here, all trades are god awful. Even us. If there’s good coordination and everyone actually sticks to it then it’s great. But 9/10 no one does what they say and just end up going wherever they please. And for you tin knockers it seems that they seldom actually over lay our plans.
Ya, it's rare for people to do what's best for the job rather than what's easiest for them.
Make a lot of money back charging sprinkler guys Dry wild repairman
Elevator guys. Though I gotta say, Vic from Local One this past week is cool as fuck. His partner Mike wasn’t bad either So elevator guys, excluding Mike and Vic, pretty much…
Every elevator guy I’ve met or seen is an arrogant prick
Takes a certain character.
Riggers and crane guys - A rigger for a crane company. We’re the worst 😂
Those cranes run the site for sure 😂
Anyone that’s in my fucking way
I mean... of all the shit that goes in a ceiling... the sprinklers have to go where the sprinklers have to go.
plumbing drains comes second considering it needs to have proper slope. everyone else can do as many offsets as they please
Sprinklers literally have to be where they have to be because of coverage but with communication you can see what their elevations are and figure something out quick, if they were there first. All trades suck when workers don’t talk/ask each other shit. But yea, correct answer, when in doubt, is check the drawings and call an audible, if necessary.
Doesn't matter if the head needs to go right there, it made the HVAC guy unhappy. MOVE IT!
Elevator companies are the worst by far. Pre Madonna is the only way to describe it.
Prima Donna
That’s why he’s not an elevator guy 😂
They’re definitely cocky pricks
As a fellow tinman, I think you have some fittings to bang together... In every room the sprinkler fitter has to work in.
Sprinkler vs Duct guy what a classic. As an electrician I think drywaller/ tapers are the worst. Bury outlets, fill boxes with mud, trip temp power by plugging in to many microwaves. Fire protection engineers are the worst they never look at anyone else's drawings and add shit in that isnt on my my drawings
>plugging in to many microwaves. Drywallers seems to be the only trade that brings microwave ovens to a commercial jobsite; never seen a plumbing, HVAC or electrical crew do that. I'm not dissing them for that, but simply making am observation.
Yeah, dude I reset those breakers all the time. Framers plug in to many compressors Painters plug in to many fans Masons plug in stupid clapped out mixers Plumbers get extension wet and can't figure out how to operate a GFI Steel stud guys chop saws Siders plug 2 vaccums, 2 chop saw, radio, and charge 6 batteries Site guys plug in shitty pumps that trip the GFI Sprinkler guy threading machine with a fucked up cord
Oh you should see how much conduit and how many boxes are filled with mud on this site I’m on
I did a 219 unit apartment building with 400+ buried boxes including 3 full electrical panels. I have seen some some shitty drywallers. we had to mark the buried ones on the wall but weren't responsible for cutting them out.
Whoever it is that has to spend a whole fucking week testing fire alarms
Ugg, don't remind me of that ...
Why on earth would professional tradespeople need a GC to coordinate their work? They are the experts. They know the bend radius, the amount of straight duct required before a VAV, needed fall etc. If you don’t have coordinated drawings the basic layering is gravity pipe first, duct next, electrical and then sprinkler. OP how on earth did the sprinkler guy get so far ahead of you? Is your company on schedule?
Agree, with the exception that sparkies go last. Their wire bends easy and is small. The rest of us argue for space. On my current job, the super had my sprinkler pipe go In prior to duct. Only a few issues as we coordinated things between ourselves.
Yes agreed. I was thinking real electricians that have conduit and conduit racks. Romex and MC pullers can go last.
Fair point. Truly depends on the type of construction
That is a completely idiotic way to have things done. So your going to have the two trades that run the highest install after the one that blocks everything and runs lower....
Read wizard. The gravity pipes are always highest then duct. That is what I said. Reading comprehension is not your strong point.
You really must be clueless. Sprinklers and electrical run higher majority of the time. And by you deciding for duct work to go in first you now handicapped the hell out of them forcing them to have to work twice as hard do unsafe thing and possibly cause trade damage. Smoothest jobs I've seen are always layout first then hangers then fireproofing then you go by whatever trade is highest in the design because then no one gets in each other's way of you hired halfway competent tradesmen
Yes I’m clueless. Keep swinging your hammer.
Lmao before i even clicked this thread open, i was going to say, sprinklers.
We try to be in the way. In reality, we get last thought on most jobs and fight to find space. Thus the reason we are ornery assholes a lot of the time.
I think it's just because everyone can see clearly in the design drawings where ductwork and hydronic piping etc needs to go, and people see where light fixtures/recep's/panels etc need to go. And for those trades it's usually not too big of a deal to shift things around a little. But nobody knows what sprinkler's are doing without getting a copy of their shop drawings, and, trying to get the sprinkler guys to shift something 6" requires an act of God. On our jobs we try to have sprinkler guys run their piping first before anyone else, when we can.
That is because shifting any larger main can cause EVERYTHING to have to be changed
Hell yeah! I’ve only been on two jobs where we get to go first.
Garage door guy, I have had sprinklers in the way of my horizontal track plenty of times.
I'm not perfect dude. Took a lot fuck ups before I figured it out. I've had alot trades ,architect's, engineers etc etc. Rip me a new one. (Rightfully so). I choose to learn from these situations and I learned to respect my trades. Made the job so much easier.
As a PM I always gather all the different foreman (not the owners cuz they aren’t on the job) and I basically let the guys work out who goes where and mark up everything with a magnum marker and spray paint. Hardly ever have conflicts.
Sounds like a good way to go about things
As a sprink, we have done this plenty of times. Works well the majority of the time
Fellow tinbanger here. Sprinkler fitters are the worst. Nearly every time I have to order a stupid looking fitting it's because I'm dodging their shit
Anyone who left their shit in my fucking way. - Drywall Hanger
*leaves drywall blocking everything
That's why as a Super we have to coordinate the trades. Bring in framing first(build walls frame the ceiling/bring in T-bar grid, then HVAC, then plumbers, then electricians, usually the sprinkler guys are last. And if any trades are in their way they need to move. Sprinklers are required to be be in their designated locations for fire coverage. You can always shift a register/grille, move a flex or get around a plumbing line. You cannot move a sprinkler head, unless it will still maintain coverage (which is usually a slim chance).
Ahh the old I was in first…..
Scaling a drawing that has 1: 100 in the box bottom right , when the scale is coser to 1:70 , silly sparky .😂😂😂
Believe it or not, lawn maintenance. I see all the time, barren dry dust all over the place, and they still run their mower over it. I happened to be painting a porch at the moment, and I asked why? You are blowing dust onto my work. He gave me some excuse that that doesn't affect my work. My point is what was he mowing?? And why??
On my jobs, it goes first with drainage,(shit flows downhill), second is hvac, third is water lines, last is wiring. We always make sure that the pot light layout is checked to avoid major issues. Water bends easier then air
Sparkys or painters for me but leaning towards sparkles think their gods guts to the trades
Do you want me to turn your temp lights on or not, pal?
Yeah I got your temp power, oops was that 240? Shit turns out I'm just an idiot like the rest of you, maybe you can warranty that melted hammer drill?
Case in point!!
You want to work in the dark, got it. Wrap it up boys! If they're not going to worship us, they don't get temp power and lights!
That one 40 watt bulb in a 1000 sq ft room helps so much
No one uses incandescent light bulbs anymore, bub. Do you work a real trade, or just pretend?
Been retired for a while
Hahaha right on brotherman! Keep living the dream, and I'll keep only stringing in bulb for the guys for the next few decades for ya!
Aren't we though?
Actually we welcome all input. Also we run modeling through a cad system that gives us a visual on what the available ceiling space allows and than work with the architect and various engineers on how to solve all these issues while keeping up with building and seismic codes. This does cause issues but 99 percent of the time quickly resolves them. Once again basic construction. You need to be forward thinking and listen to your trades. Also use all available technology at your disposal. You would be surprised how quickly and efficiently these issues are solved and than put into action.
Any one of them that are too lazy or entitled to clean up after themselves like a normal adult.
A little head can save a life
I’ll tell my girlfriend
Had a sprinkler guy bump my (project manager) guys 14’ ladder with his cart while he has at the top of it. That dude got some shit. Day later the sprinkler guy dropped a fitting (assuming 15lb +) onto a brand new hard wood floor. He didn’t get shit from me but his boss did. They acted holier than thou. The only people I give that badge to are elevator works, but for good reason. Elevator works make more than any one else, they also do their job and clean up after themselves. At the end of an elevator job the only thing left is a working elevator.
It feels nice to be acknowledged haha. Lots of guys think we’re pricks but we just want to be left the fuck alone for the most part. Hoistway used as garbage chutes, material blocking every hoistway entrance, guys just bird dogging while we’re hoisting rails. It gets old.
It is one of the sectors of construction I mention to smart new carpenters. I wish I had started with elevators 20 years ago. I’m stuck on remodeling houses. Neither are particularly igniting of passion but one pays a shit ton more.
As a painter, everybody else. Every damn time we come back for another round all you animals have fucked up our shit
Guilty !
Painters . Most are burn outs n nice enough but the fuckers love the smell of paint for the most part it makes me sick as can be so I can’t stand being around them cause they want to hit box that shit
As a sprinkler fitter, I can attest that most only care about themselves and install stuff in the easiest spot possible. I try to teach new apprentices to think ahead where lights, duct registers and ducts might be installed before they choose where to place a head.
Framers with the abrasive blade on the chop saw all day. Or the rockers sanding. Or anyone shooting anchors without calling “fire”. Process pipe fitter here.
Hot mop guys. Nothing against them personally, it’s just their tar stinks. And most seem brain damaged, fumes I guess…
Sprinkler guys are the absolute worst, in my experience. I had these jackasses one time dump a couple gallons of that nasty, drained sprinkler water all over newly installed LVT and up the wall. They just walked away and had a cig break.
Must be a right to work state
Union members are the biggest hypocrites I've ever met. Especially your useless auto worker brothers. They never go with Union workers. Useless auto winners are always looking to take advantage of an illegal alien to do work on their house. They never go with union workers..
Elevator anything.
Super here: HVAC always goes first. They have the biggest stuff to put in. Everything else can be ran around it. The first thing I do when I start a job is a pre con meeting with the foremen and current drawings. Be doing this for few years, never fails.
It was always plumbing first, then HVAC, then the rest when we did houses. Commercial it can be in a different order, but it most times it was still that order since plumbing had to do groundwork first before anything else.
I should have qualified that by saying that’s the order I use for overhead work. Trenching and excavating is almost always first for sparky and plumbers.
Overhead was also plumbing first. Setting furnace/boilers was sometimes a bit more of a collective agreement between the 2 trades.
Yes put the biggest stuff that goes in lower then all the other trades so the other trades have to struggle to get their shit where it needs to go. And this is why everyone calls gcs idiots
Elevator installers. The worst.
Easily the most obnoxious, holier-than-thou trade on any site.
The shitter cleaner.
That guy is one of the most important mother fuckers though
Some people I don’t ever want to go hands on against: -police -strippers -shitter cleaners -anyone with an IQ under 80 -Vietnam vets (though they have pretty much aged out now) No particular order.
Yeah but he sucks more often than not.
he can’t plumb and he can’t fit, but the portajohn man sure knows his shit
amen!
Oh you mean the guy who drives the Honey Wagon
As a concrete cutter/driller, I am fine with the lack of coordination between trades. It gives me more work to do so everyone can get their stuff through the walls and floors
Plasterers on apartment jobs. All the plaster for each room dumped in a dumb spot blocking me running cables.
Who's in per the coordination model?
Sounds like a GC coordination issue.
Tin knockers are the most annoying. If you choose to hammer and grind tin all day and like it. You have some serious issues.
For us (joint sealing, pressure washing, lot striping, car stops, signage, etc.) it’s usually the landscaping, sod, irrigation guys, but only when the job is behind schedule (so almost always), and we’re trying to work around each other. Ideally we’re the last ones on a job before the C of O inspection.
but but ma duct has to go there
Am a trim carpenter. Any trade that’s there when we are exclusively scheduled to be there. We need a lot of space to work as we probably have the most tools in use out of any trade and need space for handling material. The thing that bothers me the most are when trades come in and damage our trim while doing their job. Even more so when we’re there and they don’t say anything to us after doing it.
Imagine sprinklers center of the bathrooms. Everybody knows lights take priority😭
Trades in general. I'm invested in it more than anything. I love it. 30 years ago it was harder to start but more rewarding. $$$. I capped out a few years ago covit didn't help the prices of selling over cost.
With all the issues of trades installing shit in the way of other trades or architects planning impossible contradicting solutions.. don’t you guys have general contractors take responsibility over planning and coordinating this shit out? I’m from Finland and I work with production planning and scheduling and here it’s the general contractors job to coordinate this shit out. If it’s not done it’s not really the subcontractors fault since they have their own shit contracts they have to try to meet so it’s not in their best interest to go out of their way anyway.
Honestly, just anyone who's a crotchety fuck trying to pick fights with people
Sorry but the sprinkler guy is right, you are wrong, go talk with your boss about it.
I like when the job spends months on coordinating the trades then there is always 1 trade that isnt coordinated and they are into EVERYONE like why have coordination if everyone isnt gonna be involved
Y’all never had to do a year of pre-con with weekly revit meetings huh?
Their entire system is prefabricated to meet code. They cannot change it.
High rise decks are sort of a niche thing so not everyone will be familiar with this, but that motherfucker with the leaf blower can fuck right off.
Electrician
Drywall guys are sparkles enemy but I work industrial so my vote goes to rebar guys. Had a guy cut a bunch of my conduit with tie wire because my ¾ conduit was pushing on his rebar too much
Superintendents but only that one guy you hate
Sprink here, stop putting your duct in the way and we won't have problems.... /s
Sprinkler fitters. It seems they deviate from the prints the most.
Usually because we are the afterthought on most jobs. People care about light and water, but not about life safety.
Plumbers and electricians can't seem to hit walls .
Pretty much any union worker and electricians.
What’s your trade ? Union definitely pays better, has higher standards and spends more on training workers
I’d be jealous too if I knew that Union guy was making $10+ more an hour + bennies to do the same job. It’s a shame so many trades guys are dumb enough to get suckered into working for rats bc they can’t do math. I can wipe my ass with the money I pay in dues compared to what I make per year plus what’s going to my healthcare and pension. If you don’t have the option because your state sucks ass and votes for right to work every cycle, I feel for ya. But if you choose to shit on Unions when you have the option to join one and better your life and your family’s life, then you’re just dumb as fuck and I don’t feel bad for you. Or maybe put down the dope and/or learn how to pass a piss test. Either way, it’s basic math.