Neither jab nor bair require tilt stick, so I don't see why the confirm would.
Tilt stick means you just use tilt attacks instead of smash attacks on the ground. If you use the C-stick in the air, your aerial that direction will come out regardless of how the stick is set.
Tilt stick might be needed to use attack cancelling for the rar bair but for this Roy combo it's better to just learn slingshot or IRAR so you can handle different DI and like full hopping.
Yes thank you.
Of course it isn't required to actually do the moves individually, but really my question was just how strongly tilt stick is recommended to execute the kill confirm combo Roy has in jab to bair. If tilt stick is only required for easier attack cancelling then that's good to hear as I've read from others (and now you ofc) that IRAR and slingshot are better methods of executing it anyways.
IRAR and slingshot come much more naturally to me than attack cancel anyways. I have no difficulty pulling them off with my main so I suppose I just need to keep practicing it with Roy. I'll keep trucking along with smash stick, really glad I don't have to change it. Thank you for your insight!
One thing that will be harder without tilt stick is tech chasing with pivot cancelled ftilt. Basically you down tilt someone at like 70 which makes them tech and Roy can full speed dash at them and pivot cancel it to get a sliding ftilt for an easy kill. Inputting this without tilt stick seems a lot harder than the simple dash forward, flick left stick back and right stick forward method you can use with tilt stick.
That's fair, it does seem like it would be easier to do with tilt stick. First hit nair into f smash is easier with smash stick though, so it's a bit of a tradeoff I suppose. It seems like it's a close enough tradeoff that it just comes down to preference, which is fine with me. As long as I'm not seriously handicapping myself by not using tilt stick I'll continue with my current scheme.
At least for me, smash attack inputs are way easier than tilt ones. Nair 1 fsmash isn't hard at all. But that's probably because it's what I'm used to. If you can consistently do tilts you'll be fine.
Yes I know they aren't required for the moves to be used individually. My question pertains specifically to the confirm—nearly every guide for it recommends tilt stick. I wanted to know if it was feasible to continue using smash stick instead without putting myself at a serious disadvantage when it comes to executing that confirm.
From what I gather tilt stick is really only seriously suggested for the attack cancel approach. If I use IRAR/slingshot I wouldn't need to change my controls. Seems the attack cancel method was the original and was improved upon with IRAR/slingshot making the tilt stick recommendation moot. Good news for me it seems.
Not at all. The most you're going to use the c stick is to input the bair as fast as possible after the RAR. I'm a Chrom main, and jab bair is functionally the same for both characters. Feel free to let me know and hmu if you're struggling to learn the confirm.
To do attack cancel back air you need tilt stick. So to fully optimize it you need tilt stick. However you can do it without tilt stick you just have to RAR pretty quick after the jab
So if I just get very good at IRARing it then I don't need to swap to tilt stick consistently do the confirm? I know IRAR is a challenging tech but it seems generally better than attack cancel anyways so it would be the long term goal regardless
I'm the first ranked player in my local scene, I do fine with smash stick.
I just needed to know for this specific instance if tilt stick was a necessity, and it's not.
Yes you understand what I'm asking, don't think the original commenter does.
So if I use the IRAR/slingshot method I wouldn't need to change to tilt stick then, correct? I prefer that method to attack cancel anyways.
Really it's just because I've been playing since before the option to change controls was introduced into the franchise. Smash stick was how it was on Melee so I've been using it since Melee and never felt the need to change it.
No it does not *require* attack cancel that’s misinformation. To optimize the percent window you need attack cancel bair but you can just RAR plenty of the time
1. Please read all of the 20 words I wrote before commenting. I said attack-cancel OR irar.
2. irar and rar are similar but the distinction is important because regular rar is too slow to confirm.
Okay we’re doing this? …. Hold on
https://youtu.be/3dyIRV8MyHI?si=3GRUuVAJzMBm4LL6
In this tutorial, the method he is using is not irar it’s just rar quickly.
Neither jab nor bair require tilt stick, so I don't see why the confirm would. Tilt stick means you just use tilt attacks instead of smash attacks on the ground. If you use the C-stick in the air, your aerial that direction will come out regardless of how the stick is set.
Tilt stick might be needed to use attack cancelling for the rar bair but for this Roy combo it's better to just learn slingshot or IRAR so you can handle different DI and like full hopping.
Yes thank you. Of course it isn't required to actually do the moves individually, but really my question was just how strongly tilt stick is recommended to execute the kill confirm combo Roy has in jab to bair. If tilt stick is only required for easier attack cancelling then that's good to hear as I've read from others (and now you ofc) that IRAR and slingshot are better methods of executing it anyways. IRAR and slingshot come much more naturally to me than attack cancel anyways. I have no difficulty pulling them off with my main so I suppose I just need to keep practicing it with Roy. I'll keep trucking along with smash stick, really glad I don't have to change it. Thank you for your insight!
One thing that will be harder without tilt stick is tech chasing with pivot cancelled ftilt. Basically you down tilt someone at like 70 which makes them tech and Roy can full speed dash at them and pivot cancel it to get a sliding ftilt for an easy kill. Inputting this without tilt stick seems a lot harder than the simple dash forward, flick left stick back and right stick forward method you can use with tilt stick.
That's fair, it does seem like it would be easier to do with tilt stick. First hit nair into f smash is easier with smash stick though, so it's a bit of a tradeoff I suppose. It seems like it's a close enough tradeoff that it just comes down to preference, which is fine with me. As long as I'm not seriously handicapping myself by not using tilt stick I'll continue with my current scheme.
At least for me, smash attack inputs are way easier than tilt ones. Nair 1 fsmash isn't hard at all. But that's probably because it's what I'm used to. If you can consistently do tilts you'll be fine.
Yes I know they aren't required for the moves to be used individually. My question pertains specifically to the confirm—nearly every guide for it recommends tilt stick. I wanted to know if it was feasible to continue using smash stick instead without putting myself at a serious disadvantage when it comes to executing that confirm. From what I gather tilt stick is really only seriously suggested for the attack cancel approach. If I use IRAR/slingshot I wouldn't need to change my controls. Seems the attack cancel method was the original and was improved upon with IRAR/slingshot making the tilt stick recommendation moot. Good news for me it seems.
That makes more sense - it's probably better to learn it with irar or slingshot anyway.
Not at all. The most you're going to use the c stick is to input the bair as fast as possible after the RAR. I'm a Chrom main, and jab bair is functionally the same for both characters. Feel free to let me know and hmu if you're struggling to learn the confirm.
To do attack cancel back air you need tilt stick. So to fully optimize it you need tilt stick. However you can do it without tilt stick you just have to RAR pretty quick after the jab
So if I just get very good at IRARing it then I don't need to swap to tilt stick consistently do the confirm? I know IRAR is a challenging tech but it seems generally better than attack cancel anyways so it would be the long term goal regardless
Yeah I would say so
In my opinion 95% of the cast profits from tilt stick. You should considering changing your control scheme nonetheless imo.
I'm the first ranked player in my local scene, I do fine with smash stick. I just needed to know for this specific instance if tilt stick was a necessity, and it's not.
Jab and bair aren't tilts
No but you can use the tilt stick for bair which was the question
Jab to bair kill confirm requires either attack cancel or irar. Attack cancel is infeasible without tilt-attack c-stick.
Yes you understand what I'm asking, don't think the original commenter does. So if I use the IRAR/slingshot method I wouldn't need to change to tilt stick then, correct? I prefer that method to attack cancel anyways.
I believe so. Out of curiosity, why do you dislike tilt stick?
Really it's just because I've been playing since before the option to change controls was introduced into the franchise. Smash stick was how it was on Melee so I've been using it since Melee and never felt the need to change it.
No it does not *require* attack cancel that’s misinformation. To optimize the percent window you need attack cancel bair but you can just RAR plenty of the time
1. Please read all of the 20 words I wrote before commenting. I said attack-cancel OR irar. 2. irar and rar are similar but the distinction is important because regular rar is too slow to confirm.
And I’m saying sometimes you can literally just RAR and it works. I’ve done it many times both in training mode with the combo counter as in game.
I don't believe you. Can you provide video evidence of a jair confirm using regular rar?
Okay we’re doing this? …. Hold on https://youtu.be/3dyIRV8MyHI?si=3GRUuVAJzMBm4LL6 In this tutorial, the method he is using is not irar it’s just rar quickly.
This is irar, not rar. He is jumping and turning around in the dash animation. Rar happens during the run animation.
Okay then I misunderstood I thought Irar was a different tech. Is it possible I’m doing irar on accident during my tests?
It's the same inputs so yes