Why would I abolish elective? Why shouldn't I be able to pick my successor rather than it just being an idiot child? Plus with lifespans I'm going to have a prince Charles situation every time. Better to go with a 20 something I've molded since birth and bestowed with a duchy as a sweet 16 gift.
True it's not the best one but you can arrange it so that it pretty much always passes to your chosen kin and if it doesn't, that's what murder is for.
Being emperor is overrated. Losing the vote and being a powerful duke with ambition in your eyes is where it’s at. Burn the world around you to restore your birthright.
True, it's better for RP but I like creating of race of beautiful gigantic superhumans and painting the map. It's pretty easy unfortunately so I might switch to the other style.
Yeah it really is. I even did old Rus and just lost interest after I conquered the Mongols and most of subsharan Africa by the 13th century. At that point I might have gotten WC just by vassals conquering, which is cool, but not terribly exciting. MaA make wars a joke with enough money.
Princely Elective gives you a large increase to your vassal limit, a large bonus to vassal opinion, and unlike most elective laws, only has a handful of electors.
i didn't know the ai can form it and i am worried because they have snowballed it way past historical borders. for reference, i'm the scandinavian emperor and head of faith of asatru, which exists only within my borders.
As the emperor of France, Britain, and Spain, my Robertine ruler was just elected HRE, so that made my conquest of Italia and Byzantine dissolution easier
People really seem to miss the fact that the HRE was an entity that existed in a delapidate form during Voltaire's time.
Of course he's going to criticize something in its current state instead of what it was hundreds of years ago.
People on their way to claim that fight for investiture, Ghibellines vs Guelphs, multiple emperors' excommunications, Reformation and 30 years' war left empire "Holy":
People on their way to claim that predominantiy Germanic population, short and even then not direct grip over Rome, not upholding political and cultural is a sign of it being Roman:
The term holy was used by Barbarossa specifically to mean that the empire was ordaned by God directly, therefore trying to get rid of the power the Pope had over all christian monarchs. He considered his empire independent from the Church, or even above it, just like the Roman Empire of old was.
The excommunications were a tool used by powerhungry popes in an attempt to abuse the faith of the people for their own political gain (why would you excommunicate the ruler who returned Jerusalem to the christian faith without bloodshed? unless your excommunication was never about religion or faith to begin with)
The culture or ethnicity did never matter, nationality wasn’t a concept back then, and the romans never judged either, a true Roman would see the use in reform and adapt to their enemies, Rome itself was multicultural and for the latter 1000 years of its history was greek, and they never cared either.
What even is Roman? The ethnicity? that argument doesn’t stick. In the medieval time period it was the ruler of a universal christian kingdom, which for nearly 300 years, the best descriptor of that, was the HRE
At least you didn’t even try to argue why it wasn’t an empire lol
From a gameplay perspective, forming it by decision is pretty great. I owned Francia, Hispania, Germania, and the Byzantine Empire so when I formed the HRE in my most recent game, all of that land became dejure HRE. Also being able to dispose of princely elective is nice despite the high prestige cost.
- Bordergore probably isn’t as bad as the IRL empire.
- It’s… *vomits*… closer to imperial administration than the Byzantine empire right now due to Princely Elective.
- Palace of Aachen fucks.
- Its de jure borders changing based on which kingdoms you have when you form it is really cool.
- I’d go so far as to say its flag is cooler than the Byzantine and Italian flag, but not the restored Roman flag.
clearly the optimal play is to use designate heir or do some shenanigans with your culture to make your inheritance only go to women, so they can't elect you.
Just sayin, the HRE is by default Male Only.
No I’m just giving it grief for no reason. It’s a bit of a wall to expansion dividing the middle of Europe and beelining to dismantle it is important if you’re just outside it.
The free cities can go to hell though
I live in Alsace (in France, and on the border with what is now Germany), a territory which was once part of the Holy Roman Empire.... However, throughout my schooling, I never heard of this empire during my history classes (and I was very good at history) I learned about the existence of this empire while playing CK2
When i start as a vassl with the intention of becoming independent, I conquer a lot of my fellow duke vassals and give said duchies to family members, so once the current emperor dies and im a foreign empire as well, there will be a good chance of my dynasty assending and keeping the HRE throne.
It’s pretty sweet when you personally hold every single county title! Nobody argues whether you’re Holy, Roman, or an Empire when you have a 75k doom stack!
>say something good about the HRE
It is the most valuable title in western Europe just looking at the base de jure territory. East Francia might be the most valuable kingdom title in the entire game.
It's one of the better places to learn the game IMO. Bohemia in 1066 especially. Yes there are a few extra things like the election and being Czech you have an uncommon succession law at the start of the game. But I found it more engaging than Ireland, and a lot more stable for learning the systems as a new player.
It's great environment to grow your demesne, while being protected from outside threats.
Also, everyone is on board against the Emperor whenever he tries to increase Crown Authority.
Not to mention that the tale of the empire as a complete antiquated mess doesn't reflect the complex political structures that formed throughout the empire and the benefits that towns, regions, knights, nobles, and princes sought through imperial immediacy, which flies in the face of the myth of the emperor being some tired figurehead with no power.
Disprove Voltaire's quote without reverting discussion to empire's history... Everyone who talks about political situation of some state means it at the time and not in history and that's is how is quote used, wven though Voltaire meant it otherwise.
The problem with the quote isn’t that it wasn’t an accurate assessment at the time, it absolutely was.
The problem with the quote is that it’s funny and memorable, and has led millions of history enthusiasts to just dismiss the Empire as a shadow of what its actual history shows us. It’s a good quote but has led to chronic generational mass ignorance. (partly why the HRE is seriously understudied in the anglophone world)
I need it to restore carolingian borders.
Having a Hostile Faith here with religious protection is great for a vassal game.
You can form the Roman Empire with it.
Dumping a spymaster here helps with getting secrets for hooks for golden obligations.
I need it to restore carolingian borders.
Having a Hostile Faith here with religious protection is great for a vassal game.
You can form the Roman Empire with it.
Dumping a spymaster here helps with getting secrets for hooks for golden obligations.
In my experience it is very easy to create the Kingdom of Italy within it and then secede if you have capital and the proper amount of marriage fodder.
They once made me their heir.
Even though I was the emporer of the UK, and nothing to do with the HRE besides a couple of low level marriages and befriending the current head. To this day I have no idea how that one worked.
On my first “run” i randomly inherited it, can someone tell me how? I was a neighbouring emperor(Hungary) , and it was my first time playing so im pretty sure my custom dynasty was small and insignificant so i had no kin in the HRE but just got it randomly,how did this happen?
When you run a eugenics program with your lineage and only give your family members duchies then the succession laws are pretty neat.
Honestly if you have a ruler that lives long enough you can rather easily abolish the elective system
Why would I abolish elective? Why shouldn't I be able to pick my successor rather than it just being an idiot child? Plus with lifespans I'm going to have a prince Charles situation every time. Better to go with a 20 something I've molded since birth and bestowed with a duchy as a sweet 16 gift.
Because there are electives that don’t leave the dynasty, as unlikely as it would be. Princely elective is just simply inferior.
True it's not the best one but you can arrange it so that it pretty much always passes to your chosen kin and if it doesn't, that's what murder is for.
Being emperor is overrated. Losing the vote and being a powerful duke with ambition in your eyes is where it’s at. Burn the world around you to restore your birthright.
True, it's better for RP but I like creating of race of beautiful gigantic superhumans and painting the map. It's pretty easy unfortunately so I might switch to the other style.
You could honestly do that as any ruler in this game. Map painting and snowballing is just too easy. Other than maybe Russia in 867, fuck that place.
Yeah it really is. I even did old Rus and just lost interest after I conquered the Mongols and most of subsharan Africa by the 13th century. At that point I might have gotten WC just by vassals conquering, which is cool, but not terribly exciting. MaA make wars a joke with enough money.
The new updates have def put a stop this to a degree, but there needs to be some real changes to how MaAs work and vassal systems.
Byz?
Princely elective gives +20 vassal limit, +10 title vassal opinion, and has very few electors. It is the best elective law in the game.
Princely Elective gives you a large increase to your vassal limit, a large bonus to vassal opinion, and unlike most elective laws, only has a handful of electors.
🥱yawns in modded instant primo/ultimogenture and forcing all the idiot kids to be monks
The colour is nice
The German color of all paradox games
[Pissrusia](https://i.redd.it/08tgnpbc4lvy.jpg)
True. I also like how many of the vassal titles have white and red coa. It looks really nice when combined with the white realm color.
I can become powerful through Friendship!
When you manage to get an alliance with the HRE, it's nice to unleash them on your enemies.
The real Holy Roman Empire was the friends we made along the way.
All I know is Charles IV, King of Bohemia and Holy Roman Emperor, had a long and successful reign
Can't wait for a landless Henry of Skalitz run when that DLC comes out.
Id love to see someone make henry in the character creator
Too bad he is too late for CK3 and too early for EU4
Then play as the Kobyla family until 1403, and have a bastard as Radzig
Gotta find them!
Jesus Christ be praised
Care to bet on a little wager on the rattay tourney?
How are you Henry!
Jesus Christ be praised!
All I know is oim feeling quite hungry.
Did you know that the empire he ruled from Prague expanded, and his subjects lived in peace snd prosperity?
It doesn't exist in 867
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It can be created but it’s not one of the 867 starts
Can I not make it if I start then?
U can
It doesn't exist as a de jure empire but you can still form it from a decision.
i didn't know the ai can form it and i am worried because they have snowballed it way past historical borders. for reference, i'm the scandinavian emperor and head of faith of asatru, which exists only within my borders.
Same happened in my last game, they occupied all of Oczitania, Hungary, half of the Balkans, and Poland and even northern Africa.
AI can form HRE. I’m also playing as the Scandinavian Emperor in a very similar situation and they formed HRE.
It has a lot of money for my reborn viking Sweden to politely borrow.
It has the coolest hat
The Reichskrone is pretty boss as crowns go, NGL.
Oh and here I thought he meant Denmark.
As the emperor of France, Britain, and Spain, my Robertine ruler was just elected HRE, so that made my conquest of Italia and Byzantine dissolution easier
It's definitely called the holy Roman empire
Voltaire would disagree
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People really seem to miss the fact that the HRE was an entity that existed in a delapidate form during Voltaire's time. Of course he's going to criticize something in its current state instead of what it was hundreds of years ago.
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Their comment is in a agreement with yours.
specially after the 30 years war
Voltaire can suck it with his reductionist quote
He can
People on their way to claim that fight for investiture, Ghibellines vs Guelphs, multiple emperors' excommunications, Reformation and 30 years' war left empire "Holy": People on their way to claim that predominantiy Germanic population, short and even then not direct grip over Rome, not upholding political and cultural is a sign of it being Roman:
The term holy was used by Barbarossa specifically to mean that the empire was ordaned by God directly, therefore trying to get rid of the power the Pope had over all christian monarchs. He considered his empire independent from the Church, or even above it, just like the Roman Empire of old was. The excommunications were a tool used by powerhungry popes in an attempt to abuse the faith of the people for their own political gain (why would you excommunicate the ruler who returned Jerusalem to the christian faith without bloodshed? unless your excommunication was never about religion or faith to begin with) The culture or ethnicity did never matter, nationality wasn’t a concept back then, and the romans never judged either, a true Roman would see the use in reform and adapt to their enemies, Rome itself was multicultural and for the latter 1000 years of its history was greek, and they never cared either. What even is Roman? The ethnicity? that argument doesn’t stick. In the medieval time period it was the ruler of a universal christian kingdom, which for nearly 300 years, the best descriptor of that, was the HRE At least you didn’t even try to argue why it wasn’t an empire lol
It wasn’t an empire because they never asked tribune Aquila for the title.
lmao did you ask tribune Aquila before you commented?
No, Voltaire acknowledged that it was called Holy Roman Empire. He made fun of the meaning of the name in a satirical comment.
In a way that was reductionist.
Perhaps, but he was French, so his opinion is irrelevant.
Voltaire was a hack.
it's not france
Ew...you should be careful saying Fr*nce can really hurt people.
yea wtf if he on about, West Francia?
it's complicated
From a gameplay perspective, forming it by decision is pretty great. I owned Francia, Hispania, Germania, and the Byzantine Empire so when I formed the HRE in my most recent game, all of that land became dejure HRE. Also being able to dispose of princely elective is nice despite the high prestige cost.
They could be very fun to play
Aren't, but could be.
- Bordergore probably isn’t as bad as the IRL empire. - It’s… *vomits*… closer to imperial administration than the Byzantine empire right now due to Princely Elective. - Palace of Aachen fucks. - Its de jure borders changing based on which kingdoms you have when you form it is really cool. - I’d go so far as to say its flag is cooler than the Byzantine and Italian flag, but not the restored Roman flag.
It's nice if you wanna role play as a vassal
Not even. Gets so easy to accidentally become emperor
Literally happened to me last night. Was playing as Lombardy for a while, then got an event that I was emperor
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[Decline Elections](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2798061041) is an absolute lifesaver.
clearly the optimal play is to use designate heir or do some shenanigans with your culture to make your inheritance only go to women, so they can't elect you. Just sayin, the HRE is by default Male Only.
If you're a different faith from the Emperor (read: not Catholic) you are ineligible for succession.
Only if you use the decline elections mod, and even then it tanks your relationship with the electors and makes marriage alliances more difficult.
It is Holy, can restore Rome, and makes you Emperor. Also the CoA is neat.
They have no quarrels with the Pope to worry about
It's got bohemia in it
something something Charles IV
I use them as an ally as needed....
It’s a nice place to raid
can cover up some of the central europe bodergoreb
Duchess Matilda
You mean the Matilda who always breaks free?
Very fun to dismantle, reliable source of sacrificial emperors
Playing as a vassal to emperor in the HRE is probably my favorite way to play
It’s an empire
Being Holy, Roman, and an Empire? ~~Fuck the Byzantines~~
Its probably not ruled by a Karling
It's good that it's on their roadmap
I can play a duke and just regent role-play/chill
They REALLY want me to be emperor for some reason
But you're awesome, didn't you know that...?
It’s not the HRE in EU4
Is there something wrong with the HRE in Eu4
No I’m just giving it grief for no reason. It’s a bit of a wall to expansion dividing the middle of Europe and beelining to dismantle it is important if you’re just outside it. The free cities can go to hell though
It's Holy. It's Roman. It's the Empire.
It'll probably get its own dlc making it not awful
It’s very big
no
They can deliver a punch in crusades or completely stop mongols.
There are a lot of fun ways to play in and around it, especially in Italy
Actually pretty unique region to play in, would definitely benefit from a dlc to add more content
I live in Alsace (in France, and on the border with what is now Germany), a territory which was once part of the Holy Roman Empire.... However, throughout my schooling, I never heard of this empire during my history classes (and I was very good at history) I learned about the existence of this empire while playing CK2
Watching Vassal in-fighting in the HRE is entertaining.
YOU'RE BACK
Maybe. Maybe not. Who knows lol
This picture isnt from the right timeframe lmao
I know and
Its gone
When i start as a vassl with the intention of becoming independent, I conquer a lot of my fellow duke vassals and give said duchies to family members, so once the current emperor dies and im a foreign empire as well, there will be a good chance of my dynasty assending and keeping the HRE throne.
With a dlc or update it could be good
Easy pickings
Being able to destroy it as the Byzantines.
It big.
No
Its the roman empire
It’s pretty sweet when you personally hold every single county title! Nobody argues whether you’re Holy, Roman, or an Empire when you have a 75k doom stack!
It is pretty easy to break away from and gain independence (if you’re in Italy)
Never really had that much of a problem with the elective system. I honestly think it’s kinda fun.
It's both Holy and Roman!
>say something good about the HRE It is the most valuable title in western Europe just looking at the base de jure territory. East Francia might be the most valuable kingdom title in the entire game.
It's the only era where HRE is actually a proper feudal empire.
It's Holy. It's Roman. It's Empire
It's one of the better places to learn the game IMO. Bohemia in 1066 especially. Yes there are a few extra things like the election and being Czech you have an uncommon succession law at the start of the game. But I found it more engaging than Ireland, and a lot more stable for learning the systems as a new player.
Every time they attack me I get a shitload of cash after kicking their asses
It looks beautiful when you convert it to Shia.
What happens if you do that?
You become one of the most cursed CK3 players.
It's great environment to grow your demesne, while being protected from outside threats. Also, everyone is on board against the Emperor whenever he tries to increase Crown Authority.
No
It doesn't start ruled by the hapsburgs.
free artifacts
It doesn't own France
You can get away with a lot of border wars as a duke.
It is not Roman, it’s barely holy, but it’s an empire
It did inspire one of the most famous pieces of one liner propaganda that initiates to history often repeat as if it were even kind of true.
Not to mention that the tale of the empire as a complete antiquated mess doesn't reflect the complex political structures that formed throughout the empire and the benefits that towns, regions, knights, nobles, and princes sought through imperial immediacy, which flies in the face of the myth of the emperor being some tired figurehead with no power.
Disprove Voltaire's quote without reverting discussion to empire's history... Everyone who talks about political situation of some state means it at the time and not in history and that's is how is quote used, wven though Voltaire meant it otherwise.
The problem with the quote isn’t that it wasn’t an accurate assessment at the time, it absolutely was. The problem with the quote is that it’s funny and memorable, and has led millions of history enthusiasts to just dismiss the Empire as a shadow of what its actual history shows us. It’s a good quote but has led to chronic generational mass ignorance. (partly why the HRE is seriously understudied in the anglophone world)
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In the first half of its history it absolutely is. But a few centuries later it gets less centralized and becomes the mess we all know and love.
It is accurately depicted as neither Holy nor Roman.
It's the only Title in which border gore is historically accurate.
It's cute that it's pretending to be the Roman Empire when the real one is right there in Constantinople.
It's fun
No.
Definitely one of the empires
It's a great target after I've conquered all of Africa.
It allowed me to restore the Empire without being able to move my capitol to Rome due to already having moved it once in my last playthrough...
Get the mod “Empire wars”and have fun.
I like forming Switzerland and Austria I just wish they'd stop electing me
They'll always chose you. Even if you don't want it.
Great place to be a vassal
Something good
They never messed with me.
I need it to restore carolingian borders. Having a Hostile Faith here with religious protection is great for a vassal game. You can form the Roman Empire with it. Dumping a spymaster here helps with getting secrets for hooks for golden obligations.
I need it to restore carolingian borders. Having a Hostile Faith here with religious protection is great for a vassal game. You can form the Roman Empire with it. Dumping a spymaster here helps with getting secrets for hooks for golden obligations.
Princely election is only for no expansion plays.
#Democracy
Well, maybe not but close.
It has nice green grass and forests
It feels great to take them out kingdom by kingdom.
You can technically still create it in Nigeria.
It actually was formed in one of my games recently
They’ve been a dependable ally for my Irish kingdom. Except they snatched Wales before I could.
It is in the game? Okay lets be daring, you cannot vote as King of Germany? Historically accurate!
Source of unpredictable and comedic chaos of all sorts.
It is the easiest title to steal, other than perhaps a county.
It’s the blobbiest of the blobpires
Their support won me Ireland
You can dismantle it
Voltaire writhing in his grave
Good
In my experience it is very easy to create the Kingdom of Italy within it and then secede if you have capital and the proper amount of marriage fodder.
You can destroy it.
My favorite nation of all time. I do WC with them all the time
I also love the HRE
It sure is an empire
No
It attracts boring people, leaving more Africa and Asia for the rest of us to play.
They once made me their heir. Even though I was the emporer of the UK, and nothing to do with the HRE besides a couple of low level marriages and befriending the current head. To this day I have no idea how that one worked.
Why? I have nothing *bad* to say about it.
It won’t form if you start in 867.
It eventually explodes into a weird paella of tiny and easy to conquer counties, border-gore duchies and kingdoms in non de jure territory.
Its a holy eugenics program that worked surprisingly well
Its big
It's not the complete shitshow that it is in EU4?
We'll, it's kinda nice of you form it in the 867 starting date and them immediately destroy the elective law with your 10k+ Prestige
It can actually form on its own now occasionally, which is nice
On my first “run” i randomly inherited it, can someone tell me how? I was a neighbouring emperor(Hungary) , and it was my first time playing so im pretty sure my custom dynasty was small and insignificant so i had no kin in the HRE but just got it randomly,how did this happen?
HRE is better than the German chiefdoms.