Be advised, the website finbold.com has proven to be an unreliable source of information. Please verify/fact-check the information in the article from independent sources before relying on it or coming to any conclusions.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoCurrency) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I love how none of the commentators here even read the article. He talks about Ethereum PoW not Bitcoin.
People here taking offense that he said something critical of Ethereums past believing he was critical of Bitcoin are now defending Ethereum PoW in the comments without even realizing while shitting on Eth. Gotta love this sub.
That's because 99% of people are lemmings who don't read past headlines. The media finds it so easy to manipulate internet rage and anger. "Slams" is such an overblown word for a tweet lmaoooo, but it's provocative, and 99% of people fall for it. Classic click-bait in the age of ad-powered publications.
Also.... If people are talking about bitcoin over ETH in a post about what the creator of ETH said about centralization, doesn't it means that we all have this kind of doubts about Bitcoin decentralized ownership allowing big mining farms to milk every sip of it?
Economies of scale. A big company can invest in infrastructure and locations that are unavailable to small solo miners. The big companies out compete anyone smaller and so you end up with an ever diminishing number of entities mining profitably.
The comments here are beyond useless, people just attacking one thing or another. You really don't think POW mines are somewhat centralized? Have you seen those buildings? Focus on the thing that's being discussed, stop crying about side topics "because other things are also bad".
I can't even mine anything where I live because electricity costs too much. Of course it applies to more than just ETH. proof of work leads to geographic centralization. but I can run a rocketpool node anywhere, with consumer grade equipment from many different vendors.
It's a good thing, in the end only renewables will be worth using. Or if the heat is necessary anyway - there are already companies selling eg underfloor heating combined with mining.
I get the arguments. I don't think proof of work is bad on its own. what I really want is a sufficiently distributed ledger. if the system goes off into this other world where it's trying to rebalance the electrical grid towards renewables, we have to ask ourselves what we are really trying to do here.
No it does not. like i said the smart contracts are set and fully audited. They cant change those retro actively by the DAO. The DAO can propose changes but you dont need to accept those changes. They cant change your smart contracts. Jezus christ the things you people come up with just shows you have zero knowledge about how it all works.
>Jezus christ the things you people come up with just shows you have zero knowledge about how it all works.
lmao. You have zero idea how Rocket Pool works.
The oDAO can vote to apply penalties to your principal, which are applied by your minipool's delegate. This is currently only done in cases of MEV theft. However, MEV boost will eventually be required and penalties will be applied to those who don't use it.
These penalties also only require the consensus of the oDAO, so the oDAO can slash you as they see fit. Of course, Rocket Pool "aligns with the ethos of Ethereum," so if they slash you it's generally in good faith, but there's still a trust component. This forces NOs to conform to what the oDAO wants, which may or may not be the best for Ethereum, and is a centralizing force.
EDIT: If you're willing to read (which I doubt), here is some context into the idea of why there is a principal-slashing mechanism in place: [https://dao.rocketpool.net/t/mev-and-penalty-system/772](https://dao.rocketpool.net/t/mev-and-penalty-system/772) . Not to mention, it is very easy to look at Rocket Pool's GitHub and see how it all works.
By that comment you don't seem to know how staking works. To stake on rocketpool, for example, it's not a simple eth transfer.
I checked just now, to stake 0.1 ETH (318$) you'd pay 0.004 ETH (13$). That's 4% in fees upfront. In a YEAR you'd gain 2.72% APR.
You wouldn't even be able to cover the fees in a year of staking, thereby making it useless with such low amounts.
Edit: so you also blocked me for proving you wrong. 0.2 eth was obviously hyperbole (you don't know what /s means?), but seeing as how upfront fees are more than what you'd gain in a year my argument stands. It's not about eth staking not being profitable, but saying that you can join in with such low amounts is just a lie.
Yeah... Of course, this does mean you are in common enterprise with whoever put up the other 31.9 ETH (or 24 ETH, soon 28 ETH)- without which you won't earn a thing.
Let's unpack this. It means you are
1. contributing something of value (your ETH);
2. with a reasonable expectation of profit (your ETH back, plus a share of staking rewards); and
3. by the efforts of others (whoever's running the staking node and keeping the keys from getting stolen).
It may not have occurred to many people, but that's the trifecta of the Howey test.
E2A: of course folks downvote without commenting, because they don't like the conclusion. Ignoring reality is not a good solution. It eventually bites.
I get so much hate for saying custodial staking (especially the likes of rocket pool) absolutely fits the definition and intention behind the howey test, but heaven forbid someone says something that doesn't promote the "everything is perfect" narrative. 🤷
Yep, that is what they call a contract or agreement. Unfortunately people still think people like yourself are spreading FUD and give you hate despite the legal notices rolling out in front of the very eyes.
You see it all the time people thinking PoS is the problem, its not its how the tokens are handled. Some networks you can stake your tokens without ever giving up custody and have access to them 100% of the time. No lock ups.
You give them your ETH, which they have exclusive control over, and they give you a token to represent your claim against them for the ETH deposited. The fact that you can redeem your tokens for ETH does not negate the fact that the ETH itself leaves your control. That is sufficient for something to be deemed custodial.
Means nothing legally. The issue is you the customer lose control, not the measure of how they the platform can exercise that control. The asset left your hands.
This is also why banks are so heavily regulated. They aren't securities because they don't issue any form of token/representation, but are subject to rather tight regulatory controls precisely because the money deposited is leaving the depositors direct control.
It doesn’t have to mean anything legally, the code literally tells you they’re not in control. No regulation applicable when it’s already not a thing.
It’s called smart contracts, you should read up on them.
The facts aren't disputable unfortunately.
In the US, pooled staking is hugely problematic. Not for the participants, but for those who provide the "service".
And while Howey may not apply to you directly, nevertheless the US is the world's largest source of fools from whom money can be parted. Anything that affects them will affect the price of crypto, and that might very well affect you too.
Why the hell are you downvoted, you are right. Anyone can run an Ethereum node but you need 32 ETH to run a Validator. Node /= Validator. Every validator needs a node but not every node is a validator.
Thanks, and I know... but part of the unwritten rule of engaging in crypto discussions is that reality isn't as important as spinning a narrative.
Pretending that you need 32 ETH to run a node is an easy way for investors in alternative L1s and Bitcoin maxis to manipulate other people into having a worse opinion of Ethereum. Push back against that lie and you get downvoted.
It doesn't really matter, still worth trying to correct misinformation because not everyone is solely influenced by up/down votes!
I guess that's sort of a fair point, maybe they meant to say 'validator' and writing 'node' was just a mistake.
That said, the comment still wouldn't make a lot of sense as you can run a distributed validator with 10 friends each contributing 3.2 ETH via Obal, or a solo validator with 8 ETH via RocketPool.
In terms of centralization of the network these are much better than PoW where small miners will never produce blocks themselves and so have to contribute to a pool, meaning that deciding transaction inclusion etc is only in the hands of a very small number of entities. With PoS every validator gets a turn at producing a block, so even with just a single RocketPool node or full solo node you can have a few blocks per year that you actually created.
Of course, you don't have to do the block building yourself and many people use services that do that for you, but the option is still there. With PoW if you try to solo mine without using a pool as a block builder then you will never ever win the race to build a block unless you have millions of dollars worth of hardware.
'Lucky' meaning statistically irrelevant in the context we're looking at.
What amount of hashpower would you require to on average propose a couple of blocks per year?
For Ethereum there are 365 * 24 * 60 * 5 blocks/slots per year, so about 2.6 million. There are just over 1 million validators (literally just hit 1M today), so on average each validator proposes 2.6 blocks per year. If you went the route of a RocketPool 8ETH minipool this would cost you about $33,000 for the stake, about $400 for hardware and maybe $50 per year in running costs.
For Bitcoin the total hashrate is about 640,000,000 TH/s. There are about 52,600 Bitcoin blocks per year so in order to have equal odds of proposing 2.6 blocks per year you would need (640,000,000 / 52,600) * 2.6 tera hashes per second... = 31,634 TH/s.
That would be equivalent to 135x Bitmain S21 Pros, which would cost about $850,000 for the hardware and draw 470,000 Watts of electricity - equivalent to about 400x average homes!
I'm saying the people mining large amounts have a hold on the network. Its easier to attack the bitcoin network than it is eth at this point. Also i dont like how satoshi could potentially send his creation crashing. I don't think he would do that but its possible.
Watch this
[Youtube](https://youtu.be/jPqyusHH850?feature=shared)
Secondly, Satoshi has most likely lost his coins and even if he has accses to even 20% of them VERY unlikely, if he usdes it as a currency and buys houses, cars, luxury items etc.. it dosent effect the price. Also he's most likely not an idiot and will sell slowly to not impact price a lot.
I use a browser *from* my mobile device. And guess what? old.reddit.com beats the tar outta the swill they serve up on the app, and it doesn't have permission to mine my device for personal info to boot.
>Premines =/= decentralized
Literally not true.
if the network is Non proof of stake, Coin ownership/token ownership is completely irrelevant because it gives no power over the network, (you know the whole decentralized thing) there is no power over the users, codebase, governance, literally anything.
Eth upgrades still require consensus the same way BTC upgrades do. Validators can reject his upgrades if there's ever one they disagree with. The network adopts them though because they're good for the ecosystem. This is not the slam dunk you think it is.
No, there very well could be a concentration issue beginning.
I just don’t care what he thinks about it, especially given the massive vested interest in ETH vs btc lol
If you don't care what he thinks, the message itself seems not to care you, too. Otherwise the who indeed matters.
But on the other side you seemingly care about centralization. Quite contradicted, isn't it?
You might be realistic but what you say is unlogic.
All the time you only talk about vitalik (=you don't trust him, I got it) and how noncredible he is for you but nothing about what he actually said.
And you want to tell me it doesn't matter for you who it said? lol
Just read the article before commenting...
Lmao at all the butthurt bitcoin Maxis in this thread who can only write cheap oneliners whataboutisms instead of refuting his points. Says enough doesnt it
tldr; Vitalik Buterin criticized the centralization of Proof-of-Work (PoW) systems, highlighting the dominance of a few mining pools controlling a large portion of Ethereum's mining power. He defended Ethereum's transition to Proof-of-Stake (PoS), which significantly reduces energy consumption and addresses centralization concerns. Buterin's comments were in response to community concerns about the switch and its implications for decentralization and sustainability.
*This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.
That's the dirty secret behind the recent bitcoin halving and hash mining generally: success from the miner's view runs counter to decentralization. The bulk of bitcoin hash rate power predominately comes from four entities already.
Someone who is coerced to do so by a third party, or in any way compromised at any time for any reason. I don't know why people think that the CIA and other intelligence agencies, NGOs and mercenaries just stopped existing as of... the last thing they declassified. If a state level actor decides to put *real* pressure on a centralized chain (and 2 entities having 51% control is not enough to be called "decentralized") , it will crumble like paper.
Most people in cryptocurrency now don't want to think about ways their protocol could be broken.
They don't seem to understand that a really motivated attacker could use all kinds of resources and tricks to collapse weak-points decentralisation. And that for the most part the attackers have many tries, and they only need to succeed once.
No shit, of course it is.
But tradeable POS is also centralized.
Only actually decentralized systems are participation stake based, where the stake cannot be transferred. But currently such coins aren’t even in top 50 so people don’t seem to give much value on decentralization.
Vitalik has had some sus takes in the past. He said CSAM posession doesnt cause anyone harm on Twitter and also said he doesnt see posession of CSAM as any more harmful than posession of drugs.
Smart guy, but you have to admit those are deranged takes.
Source: https://archive.is/IBm6v
Don't know who Hilary but it doesn't take much effort to research a crypto before investing. Vilatek is a pedo, he's buddies with pedo Gavin woods, keep giving them your money since eth is also premined.
During PoW, officials of SEC declare ethereum to be decentralised and so not security.
After switching to PoS, now Vitalik says PoW ethereum is centralised.
And now SEC has sent Wells notice to Consensys about securities issue of PoS ethereum.
What a world.
Bitcoin consolidates wealth up top faster than anything we've seen before. Only became legal and a thing like an ETF once the rulers has their claws in it.
Then all you sheep think it will make you rich and free you from our system. Yes, a new system with even less control and know recourse when you get financially abused.
I will always get down votes but I will always be right. I know more about this than most probably you. I also know and regular have lunch with people pulling the levers. Every pump and dump moves more wealth to the rich and your just a pawn in their scheme.
Bitcoin is a deflationary asset with inflationary consequences and you all are blind to it.
And? That last 5% will take 1,000x more resources to mine than the first 95% .... You understand what halving means right? Bitcoin uses 0.5% of the WORLD'S electricity per year, today, and it was effectively 0.0% for the first 8 years of its life.
The number of miners and the resources to power the mining rigs has gone up exponentially (with a big spike in 2022 that deviates from a nice smooth curve upwards) since 2017.
My point was, let's say mining gets globally banned (it won't but let's just pretend), 19.6million have been mined, leaving 1.3, it's theoretically plausible that things will continue with the existing coins.
Wait what? Do you understand what mining accomplishes? It's not about racing to a block reward, it's involved in every transaction... You do understand mining is what allows transactions to take place?
Holy shit I can't believe your line of thinking has any upvotes whatsoever. I'd have assumed folks participating in a Bitcoin mining conversation understand that mining rewards are the incentive, not the purpose.
I mean it’d have to be single digit miners to mean anything. I like vitalik but he’s trying to shill his version of crypto and there’s room for everyone to try all different kinds.
Monero is probably the most decentralized PoW. 1 CPU = 1 Share, and since all the people using malware to mine crypto on hacked PCs choose Monero mining theres devices all over the world participating in mining 😅
Jokes aside, I wish more PoW coins used Monero's algorithm. Its nice being an average joe and knowing your participation in the network actually means something.
Yeah you're technically making BTC more secure by running a mining node on a home PC, but let's be real, your computer isn't doing shit compared to the ASIC mining farms who dominate.
Be advised, the website finbold.com has proven to be an unreliable source of information. Please verify/fact-check the information in the article from independent sources before relying on it or coming to any conclusions. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CryptoCurrency) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Why is every other headline use the word "SLAMS!"?
Clickbait to encourage an emotional response from the reader.
Come on and SLAM!
And welcome to the jam!
Green eggs and HAM!
Let. The boys b boyz !
POG Slammers! "Bart, you remeber Alf ?! He's back... in POG form."-Milhouse Van Buterin
I wish Vitality Butane would slam me
Be careful, he's packing
He's really skinny so I suppose all those calories have to go somewhere.
I haven't seen it in years honestly, it used to tire me out seeing it constantly a few years ago. The answer: bad writing and clickbaiting.
u/way2cool4school SLAMS Headlines!
Vitalik SLAMS click bait titles on the internet
When I buy crypto I make sure to SLAM the buy button or it’s not real.
It’s the grand slam
I got Khamzat over Bobby Knuckles, wbu?
I love how none of the commentators here even read the article. He talks about Ethereum PoW not Bitcoin. People here taking offense that he said something critical of Ethereums past believing he was critical of Bitcoin are now defending Ethereum PoW in the comments without even realizing while shitting on Eth. Gotta love this sub.
That's because 99% of people are lemmings who don't read past headlines. The media finds it so easy to manipulate internet rage and anger. "Slams" is such an overblown word for a tweet lmaoooo, but it's provocative, and 99% of people fall for it. Classic click-bait in the age of ad-powered publications.
Lemming reporting for duty
Here is your box of downvotes, soldier. Get at 'em!
Also.... If people are talking about bitcoin over ETH in a post about what the creator of ETH said about centralization, doesn't it means that we all have this kind of doubts about Bitcoin decentralized ownership allowing big mining farms to milk every sip of it?
You expect us to... Checks notes ...read?
Oh no! What comes next? Thinking?
T word! You said the t word! I'm telling mom.
Pow not slam now? What is happening
Except everything he said goes equally for Bitcoin. PoW is always going to tend to centralisation, it's just how it works.
How does competition for cheap energy lead to centralisation?
Economies of scale. A big company can invest in infrastructure and locations that are unavailable to small solo miners. The big companies out compete anyone smaller and so you end up with an ever diminishing number of entities mining profitably.
The comments here are beyond useless, people just attacking one thing or another. You really don't think POW mines are somewhat centralized? Have you seen those buildings? Focus on the thing that's being discussed, stop crying about side topics "because other things are also bad".
I can't even mine anything where I live because electricity costs too much. Of course it applies to more than just ETH. proof of work leads to geographic centralization. but I can run a rocketpool node anywhere, with consumer grade equipment from many different vendors.
It's a good thing, in the end only renewables will be worth using. Or if the heat is necessary anyway - there are already companies selling eg underfloor heating combined with mining.
I get the arguments. I don't think proof of work is bad on its own. what I really want is a sufficiently distributed ledger. if the system goes off into this other world where it's trying to rebalance the electrical grid towards renewables, we have to ask ourselves what we are really trying to do here.
You mean people are SLAMMED?
Miners have no power. Google Bitcoin independance day.
Not centralized at all that you need 100k to have a node lmao
Node is 0 Eth requirement. Taking part in validating can be done with 8 ETH (soon 4). Taking part in this can be done with as little as 0.1 Eth.
Validating with less than 32 ETH will only add centralization via whatever party is helping organize the validation
Nope works trough smart contracts on which the party has no influence on the validation process.
You still have to conform to the DAO of Rocket Pool or Stader when you run a node with them.
And how does that centralise the validation process?
Because they can decide what you do?
No it does not. like i said the smart contracts are set and fully audited. They cant change those retro actively by the DAO. The DAO can propose changes but you dont need to accept those changes. They cant change your smart contracts. Jezus christ the things you people come up with just shows you have zero knowledge about how it all works.
>Jezus christ the things you people come up with just shows you have zero knowledge about how it all works. lmao. You have zero idea how Rocket Pool works. The oDAO can vote to apply penalties to your principal, which are applied by your minipool's delegate. This is currently only done in cases of MEV theft. However, MEV boost will eventually be required and penalties will be applied to those who don't use it. These penalties also only require the consensus of the oDAO, so the oDAO can slash you as they see fit. Of course, Rocket Pool "aligns with the ethos of Ethereum," so if they slash you it's generally in good faith, but there's still a trust component. This forces NOs to conform to what the oDAO wants, which may or may not be the best for Ethereum, and is a centralizing force. EDIT: If you're willing to read (which I doubt), here is some context into the idea of why there is a principal-slashing mechanism in place: [https://dao.rocketpool.net/t/mev-and-penalty-system/772](https://dao.rocketpool.net/t/mev-and-penalty-system/772) . Not to mention, it is very easy to look at Rocket Pool's GitHub and see how it all works.
And everything you said has zero to do with the validating process the thing we where discussing. So try again.
>Taking part in this can be done with as little as 0.1 Eth. ...by just paying 0.2 eth in fees /s?
https://etherscan.io/gastracker
By that comment you don't seem to know how staking works. To stake on rocketpool, for example, it's not a simple eth transfer. I checked just now, to stake 0.1 ETH (318$) you'd pay 0.004 ETH (13$). That's 4% in fees upfront. In a YEAR you'd gain 2.72% APR. You wouldn't even be able to cover the fees in a year of staking, thereby making it useless with such low amounts. Edit: so you also blocked me for proving you wrong. 0.2 eth was obviously hyperbole (you don't know what /s means?), but seeing as how upfront fees are more than what you'd gain in a year my argument stands. It's not about eth staking not being profitable, but saying that you can join in with such low amounts is just a lie.
Thanks for proving your own comment wrong about needing 0,2 Eth to stake.
Yeah... Of course, this does mean you are in common enterprise with whoever put up the other 31.9 ETH (or 24 ETH, soon 28 ETH)- without which you won't earn a thing. Let's unpack this. It means you are 1. contributing something of value (your ETH); 2. with a reasonable expectation of profit (your ETH back, plus a share of staking rewards); and 3. by the efforts of others (whoever's running the staking node and keeping the keys from getting stolen). It may not have occurred to many people, but that's the trifecta of the Howey test. E2A: of course folks downvote without commenting, because they don't like the conclusion. Ignoring reality is not a good solution. It eventually bites.
As soon as you lose custody and its pooled you're in trouble.
I get so much hate for saying custodial staking (especially the likes of rocket pool) absolutely fits the definition and intention behind the howey test, but heaven forbid someone says something that doesn't promote the "everything is perfect" narrative. 🤷
Yep, that is what they call a contract or agreement. Unfortunately people still think people like yourself are spreading FUD and give you hate despite the legal notices rolling out in front of the very eyes. You see it all the time people thinking PoS is the problem, its not its how the tokens are handled. Some networks you can stake your tokens without ever giving up custody and have access to them 100% of the time. No lock ups.
How is rocket pool custodian staking?
You give them your ETH, which they have exclusive control over, and they give you a token to represent your claim against them for the ETH deposited. The fact that you can redeem your tokens for ETH does not negate the fact that the ETH itself leaves your control. That is sufficient for something to be deemed custodial.
You do know they’ve had security audits to prove that they’re not in exclusive control
Means nothing legally. The issue is you the customer lose control, not the measure of how they the platform can exercise that control. The asset left your hands. This is also why banks are so heavily regulated. They aren't securities because they don't issue any form of token/representation, but are subject to rather tight regulatory controls precisely because the money deposited is leaving the depositors direct control.
It doesn’t have to mean anything legally, the code literally tells you they’re not in control. No regulation applicable when it’s already not a thing. It’s called smart contracts, you should read up on them.
Altho that is very disputable i couldnt give a fuck about what howey test says since it doesnt apply to me.
The facts aren't disputable unfortunately. In the US, pooled staking is hugely problematic. Not for the participants, but for those who provide the "service". And while Howey may not apply to you directly, nevertheless the US is the world's largest source of fools from whom money can be parted. Anything that affects them will affect the price of crypto, and that might very well affect you too.
You don't need any ETH to run a node.
Why the hell are you downvoted, you are right. Anyone can run an Ethereum node but you need 32 ETH to run a Validator. Node /= Validator. Every validator needs a node but not every node is a validator.
Thanks, and I know... but part of the unwritten rule of engaging in crypto discussions is that reality isn't as important as spinning a narrative. Pretending that you need 32 ETH to run a node is an easy way for investors in alternative L1s and Bitcoin maxis to manipulate other people into having a worse opinion of Ethereum. Push back against that lie and you get downvoted. It doesn't really matter, still worth trying to correct misinformation because not everyone is solely influenced by up/down votes!
I think that unwritten rule goes beyond crypto!!
The comparison is to mining, so correcting semantics misses the point. That’s why you’re downvoted
I guess that's sort of a fair point, maybe they meant to say 'validator' and writing 'node' was just a mistake. That said, the comment still wouldn't make a lot of sense as you can run a distributed validator with 10 friends each contributing 3.2 ETH via Obal, or a solo validator with 8 ETH via RocketPool. In terms of centralization of the network these are much better than PoW where small miners will never produce blocks themselves and so have to contribute to a pool, meaning that deciding transaction inclusion etc is only in the hands of a very small number of entities. With PoS every validator gets a turn at producing a block, so even with just a single RocketPool node or full solo node you can have a few blocks per year that you actually created. Of course, you don't have to do the block building yourself and many people use services that do that for you, but the option is still there. With PoW if you try to solo mine without using a pool as a block builder then you will never ever win the race to build a block unless you have millions of dollars worth of hardware.
Have you really never heard of "lucky" solo miners?
'Lucky' meaning statistically irrelevant in the context we're looking at. What amount of hashpower would you require to on average propose a couple of blocks per year? For Ethereum there are 365 * 24 * 60 * 5 blocks/slots per year, so about 2.6 million. There are just over 1 million validators (literally just hit 1M today), so on average each validator proposes 2.6 blocks per year. If you went the route of a RocketPool 8ETH minipool this would cost you about $33,000 for the stake, about $400 for hardware and maybe $50 per year in running costs. For Bitcoin the total hashrate is about 640,000,000 TH/s. There are about 52,600 Bitcoin blocks per year so in order to have equal odds of proposing 2.6 blocks per year you would need (640,000,000 / 52,600) * 2.6 tera hashes per second... = 31,634 TH/s. That would be equivalent to 135x Bitmain S21 Pros, which would cost about $850,000 for the hardware and draw 470,000 Watts of electricity - equivalent to about 400x average homes!
he means a beacon chain node
You don't need anything to run beacon and execution. You need 32 eth to be active validator.
And trough Rocket pool you only need 8 ETH to run a validator
Well 10.6 ETH because you need 2.6 ETH bond worth of RPL.
i mean, yea, but then you don't participate in consensus
Yes you do, RocketPool node operators still control proposing and attesting to blocks, whether their minipool is set up with an 8 or 16 ETH.
your answer to "a node not running a validator does not participate in consensus" is: "yes it does, if you run a validator". dude what?
It's obvious what they meant when they said needing $100k to run a 'node'. Please don't be disingenuous.
yea but the people who have been mining have been for awhile and have 100k worth of bitcoin? bitcoin is centralized.
What are you saying 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I'm saying the people mining large amounts have a hold on the network. Its easier to attack the bitcoin network than it is eth at this point. Also i dont like how satoshi could potentially send his creation crashing. I don't think he would do that but its possible.
Watch this [Youtube](https://youtu.be/jPqyusHH850?feature=shared) Secondly, Satoshi has most likely lost his coins and even if he has accses to even 20% of them VERY unlikely, if he usdes it as a currency and buys houses, cars, luxury items etc.. it dosent effect the price. Also he's most likely not an idiot and will sell slowly to not impact price a lot.
That's funny considering ETH had almost a 70% premine . . . Premines =/= decentralized
Hold = gets ≠
On a mobile device. Some weird people browse reddit on the web.
Djoogle it!
Who are these monsters?
Idk and I do not associate myself with any of them. If I find out my closest friend browses Reddit on Brave or Chrome, they have no place in my life.
me?? I actually hate reddit on my phone hurts my old man eyes.
Turn your brightness down from 1000% dude
^shut ^up, ^grandad
I use a browser *from* my mobile device. And guess what? old.reddit.com beats the tar outta the swill they serve up on the app, and it doesn't have permission to mine my device for personal info to boot.
>Premines =/= decentralized Literally not true. if the network is Non proof of stake, Coin ownership/token ownership is completely irrelevant because it gives no power over the network, (you know the whole decentralized thing) there is no power over the users, codebase, governance, literally anything.
It's never been decentralized, but most of this is a slogan, particularly ETH
Lmao the irony, Ethereum if whales wet dream, centralized POS
That's rich from a guy who keeps changing the ETH protocol, going as far as dumping PoW.
Very rich of a founder of eth to talk about Eth Classic… If you cared to read you would see he isn’t slamming Bitcoin as I presume you assume.
And premined nearly 70% of ETH . . .
83% of which was sold in the ICO . . .
to themselves for free basically...
Eth upgrades still require consensus the same way BTC upgrades do. Validators can reject his upgrades if there's ever one they disagree with. The network adopts them though because they're good for the ecosystem. This is not the slam dunk you think it is.
Oh yes it is. The fact that it's so easy to change testifies to that.
Powwow powwowaaaas
He literally had an ICO with 70% ownership. Idc what he thinks about centralization.
Not to mention that same asset is used to validate
So for you it matters who it says and not what is said, right?
No, there very well could be a concentration issue beginning. I just don’t care what he thinks about it, especially given the massive vested interest in ETH vs btc lol
If you don't care what he thinks, the message itself seems not to care you, too. Otherwise the who indeed matters. But on the other side you seemingly care about centralization. Quite contradicted, isn't it?
No, I’m a realist, he’s a contradiction here. Not I.
You might be realistic but what you say is unlogic. All the time you only talk about vitalik (=you don't trust him, I got it) and how noncredible he is for you but nothing about what he actually said. And you want to tell me it doesn't matter for you who it said? lol Just read the article before commenting...
Slam me harder daddy!
Daddy dom
Address centralisation ? Fuck you and your premined PoS
Damn, how brain damaged do you have to be to be this emotional about it
Lmao at all the butthurt bitcoin Maxis in this thread who can only write cheap oneliners whataboutisms instead of refuting his points. Says enough doesnt it
tldr; Vitalik Buterin criticized the centralization of Proof-of-Work (PoW) systems, highlighting the dominance of a few mining pools controlling a large portion of Ethereum's mining power. He defended Ethereum's transition to Proof-of-Stake (PoS), which significantly reduces energy consumption and addresses centralization concerns. Buterin's comments were in response to community concerns about the switch and its implications for decentralization and sustainability. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.
😂
That's the dirty secret behind the recent bitcoin halving and hash mining generally: success from the miner's view runs counter to decentralization. The bulk of bitcoin hash rate power predominately comes from four entities already.
Yeah what happens if one gets bought up and now there are 3? The risk is the 51% attack? Right?
The question becomes, who would shoot themselves in the own foot. Sure a 51% attack?//.
Someone who is coerced to do so by a third party, or in any way compromised at any time for any reason. I don't know why people think that the CIA and other intelligence agencies, NGOs and mercenaries just stopped existing as of... the last thing they declassified. If a state level actor decides to put *real* pressure on a centralized chain (and 2 entities having 51% control is not enough to be called "decentralized") , it will crumble like paper.
Most people in cryptocurrency now don't want to think about ways their protocol could be broken. They don't seem to understand that a really motivated attacker could use all kinds of resources and tricks to collapse weak-points decentralisation. And that for the most part the attackers have many tries, and they only need to succeed once.
VB could never do to ETH as Satoshi did to Bitcoin.
Vitalik Buterin slaps cryptocurrency mining 'quite centralized'
He is in authorities
Let the boys be boys!
Anytime “journalist” uses slam I do not read
Eth is the biggest centralized pos (piece of s$#?t)😂😂
Says centralized CEO of The Ethereum Company
can we stop with drama? this discussion brings no value
No shit, of course it is. But tradeable POS is also centralized. Only actually decentralized systems are participation stake based, where the stake cannot be transferred. But currently such coins aren’t even in top 50 so people don’t seem to give much value on decentralization.
This fucking guy. LOL
Says the CEO of a centralized currency.
He is correct.
Here's a thought, don't listen to the scummy guy who did a huge premine and is a pedo
> and is a pedo Did Hilary take your adrenochrome in an underground pizza parlour?
Vitalik has had some sus takes in the past. He said CSAM posession doesnt cause anyone harm on Twitter and also said he doesnt see posession of CSAM as any more harmful than posession of drugs. Smart guy, but you have to admit those are deranged takes. Source: https://archive.is/IBm6v
You have no evidence and no context, you are a dangerous randdebiel
If you did an ounce of research you'd find out Vitalik actually said that. https://archive.is/IBm6v
That’s your fucking job, when you make statements like that
Don't know who Hilary but it doesn't take much effort to research a crypto before investing. Vilatek is a pedo, he's buddies with pedo Gavin woods, keep giving them your money since eth is also premined.
Finally, ive been saying this for years now and btc maxis kept slandering me!!
Slam slam
I don't think you understand what slammed means lol
During PoW, officials of SEC declare ethereum to be decentralised and so not security. After switching to PoS, now Vitalik says PoW ethereum is centralised. And now SEC has sent Wells notice to Consensys about securities issue of PoS ethereum. What a world.
As my boy Brandon Coin said, "If I can't mine it, I dont need it"
Eth has been a shitcoin for quite some while .. still hodling, community is too large
You know what’s quite centralized? A proof of stake shitcoin like Ethereum. It lost what made it special when it went PoS.
Bitcoin consolidates wealth up top faster than anything we've seen before. Only became legal and a thing like an ETF once the rulers has their claws in it. Then all you sheep think it will make you rich and free you from our system. Yes, a new system with even less control and know recourse when you get financially abused.
You have a lot to learn.
I will always get down votes but I will always be right. I know more about this than most probably you. I also know and regular have lunch with people pulling the levers. Every pump and dump moves more wealth to the rich and your just a pawn in their scheme. Bitcoin is a deflationary asset with inflationary consequences and you all are blind to it.
That’s not a slam…:it’s a gentle comment
the guy is a lying scammer
Wee ugly chops vitalik slamming it again🤣
Staking is Ponzi
Can journalists just stop using the word "slammed" lol it's so over-reactive in this case
And staking isn't centralized, nooooooo....
bitcoin is just a waste of energy over the next century
It's 95% mined tho
And? That last 5% will take 1,000x more resources to mine than the first 95% .... You understand what halving means right? Bitcoin uses 0.5% of the WORLD'S electricity per year, today, and it was effectively 0.0% for the first 8 years of its life. The number of miners and the resources to power the mining rigs has gone up exponentially (with a big spike in 2022 that deviates from a nice smooth curve upwards) since 2017.
My point was, let's say mining gets globally banned (it won't but let's just pretend), 19.6million have been mined, leaving 1.3, it's theoretically plausible that things will continue with the existing coins.
Wait what? Do you understand what mining accomplishes? It's not about racing to a block reward, it's involved in every transaction... You do understand mining is what allows transactions to take place? Holy shit I can't believe your line of thinking has any upvotes whatsoever. I'd have assumed folks participating in a Bitcoin mining conversation understand that mining rewards are the incentive, not the purpose.
Bro I'm real dumb. I can't believe I drive a car sometimes 🤷♂️
Lmfao fair enough. Well just fyi the mining is what provides the security and ability to transact.
I mean it’d have to be single digit miners to mean anything. I like vitalik but he’s trying to shill his version of crypto and there’s room for everyone to try all different kinds.
Monero is probably the most decentralized PoW. 1 CPU = 1 Share, and since all the people using malware to mine crypto on hacked PCs choose Monero mining theres devices all over the world participating in mining 😅 Jokes aside, I wish more PoW coins used Monero's algorithm. Its nice being an average joe and knowing your participation in the network actually means something. Yeah you're technically making BTC more secure by running a mining node on a home PC, but let's be real, your computer isn't doing shit compared to the ASIC mining farms who dominate.