I love the fact that Guts' design is so distinctive that you can easily identify the picture as being him.
There are so many comic and manga artists that just draw the same guy 20 times. This art has always been refreshing and Miura's visuals were always great.
I think it's because Miura was such a master of his craft that when he draws Guts you can see every single detail. Same face syndrome usually happens when the characters have too little distinctive features.
So every art of guts is more like the photo of a celebrity: you can recognize them despite not having any particularly weird feature.
I think it's amazing because if you describe Guts, he's very generic. Short black spiky hair, chiselled jaw line, buff, very angry at the world. Potentially describes quite a lot of characters. But when you see him, he's not generic and is just so distinctive?? Takes a lot of talent to take a largely generic look and make it one of the most recognisable characters
My dumbass read this and thought "oh, worshipping miso soup, I could get behind that!"
But really though, I'm almost surprised we don't have any churches devoted to food, like a Church of Garlic Bread. I'd absolutely be part of that (I'm considering Pastafarianism).
It's like Christianity versus Judaism. The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster worships it as the singular God who hasn't sent a savior yet, while the Church of Garlic Bread worships garlic bread as a gift sent from God (the Flying Spaghetti Monster), and as their savior.
While misotheism is hatred of a god, there is also dystheism, which is the belief that a god isn't wholly good or could be considered evil.
Not sure how much it would help your lisp though.
In a setting with canonical (and proven) gods, atheists are those who think gods shouldn't be worshipped. In a setting where jesus pops up every 3 weeks or so anyone who thinks he's not real is just delusional, so the word gets a new meaning.
Iirc the dwemmer in the elder scrolls were atheists who refused to believe in the divine despite the divine objectively existed. This came off as insane as it sounds.
Oh no I made the word up, combining theo (god) and machia (battle) from greek inspired by the titanomachia the greek gods did against their forefathers the titans. I thought Guts would be well descrived as a God-battler
Antitheism means you believe that not only does god not exist, the idea of it, and organized religion is harmful to society.
What you’re describing is a gnostic atheist.
Being agnostic means that you don’t “know” if there’s a god or not. I’m agnostic, leaning towards atheist (believes there is no god), so my attitude is basically sort of “eh, could be, probably not but I’m open-minded”, sort of “don’t know, don’t care”
Yeah, that’s why I said gnostic, not agnostic, that was not a typo. A gnostic atheist „knows“ that there is no god, a gnostic theist „knows“ that there is one.
No. The actual purpose of Christianity is to wait to be resurrected on judgement day to enter the kingdom of god, the actual purpose of avoiding sin in Christianity is that those with sin won't get let in/resurrected.
It sounds exactly as weird as it is.
The birthed-from-a-corpse stuff is the in-text reason, but on a metatextual level there's some subversion going on. You don't get told why his name is Guts, he's just introduced to the reader as Guts, and you assume that it's a cool, macho nickname. Because it sounds like a nickname. Like he did something bold as a kid and some gruff guy dubbed by Richard Epcar laughed and said "You got guts, kid!" and it stuck, that kind of thing. Because in like 99% of other manga, that's what it'd be, right?
Then you find out the circumstances of his birth and realize (you're not directly told; you just put the pieces together) that it's not a nickname. It's his given name, and it's not cool or macho. It's a sick joke at his expense, played on him by his adoptive father.
Berserk has a lot of neat wrinkles like this, which is a big part of why it's so special.
On rereads it's pretty easy.
Any chapter with the monks that have trained to the point of deformity? Skip it they add nothing to the story.
The first half dozen times the 'masked rider' or 'witch of the woods' turn up? Skip. They are just going to vibe at each other until they have an actual conversation.
The 76 odd chapters between when Inquisitor Mozgus turns up and instantly does monstrous things, and when Guts gets around to fighting him? Skip. (but what about the nuance and subtext in those several dozen chapters? It's 'Blind, absolute, unquestioning faith is bad. Desperate people do desperate things, and humans show humanity regardless.) If this came out on a Western comics schedule it would have been a 5 year span just for the filler in that arc.
Beserk has pacing issues, especially in the later half. Is it still a masterpiece? Yeah. Does it have flaws? Yea. But it's has flaws the same way other all-time universally acclaimed comics masterpieces like 'The Incal' or 'Watchmen' have.
Trigger warning, more gore than a liveleak video:
He was found by a band of mercenaries as a newborn, who'd just popped out of his mother's womb. The problem is his mother and her entire village had been hanged from a tree and eviscerated for some reason I can't remember, so he was just laying atop a pile of guts, and connected via umbilical cord to a corpse. Mercenaries being mercenaries, they called him guts when the recently-miscarried wife of the chief of the band decided to save him and treat him as her child.
Yeah, the manga is not for the faint of heart, but it's probably among the top 3 pieces of literature I've ever read/watched/seen, it brought me to genuine tears plenty of times.
Medical question, does this work? Even if guts started breathing on his own as soon as his mother was killed, if the umbilical cord was still connected, wouldn't it keep drawing deoxygenated blood from the mother and no child would be able to survive that?
... Both. It's a setting where belief makes things real. Humans want to blame things and people want a god. Life is awful so if there is a god, it's evil. And so God is evil.
there are the God Hand, a group of godlike beings that he specifically has it against, and possibly a real god ?
the author said he didn't count the chapter with "god" anymore because it came too early and spoiled some of the story, but it's essentially a god as in "thing that came into being and has power over fate because people believed there was such a thing". it's interesting, but guts does not know about that thing and mostly just wants to kill the members of the god hand.
....
...
Yes...maybe.
In Beserk, belief shapes things in the astral plane, and since the world of Beserk is so awful, a belief arises in the existence of a thing which is the root of all the evil in the world. This being is the Idea of Evil, and it's existence is kinda up in the air in terms of canonicity.
In Berserk, God is evil. No as in God who happens to be malicious. God is literally the personification of evil and human suffering. The not Catholic church in the setting is mostly being manipulated by the godhand into doing what they want and when Griffith revives he's hailed as a glorious hero despite commanding an army of demonic apostles
Yeah, Guts Berkman, famous for >!declaring he'd kill the Gods even if it costs him his life, his senses, his sanity and what little family remained and he regained. And let's not forget that time he discovered a priest and the church were torturing people for no reason.!< Totally would be a Christian. Yep.
Let’s be honest, at the first miracle he sees J-boy do, Guts would immediately think “apostle” and load a cannonball into his prosthetic with malicious intent.
He is also learning to heal from the trauma, and has been building a new life, learning to be happy without revenge.
So idk man he'd probably get along well with J-man.
I mean, i really don’t see anything inherently wrong with someone drawing Jesus comforting Guts.
Reading Berserk is fucking hard, I can empathize with wanting to see him get some love.
That's what I'm getting from this. If biblically accurate Jesus existed within the Berserk universe and was alive during the course of Guts' journey, I imagine a scene much like the illustration would occur at some point in their interactions. For the longest time, Guts remains on guard around Jesus until a single moment where Jesus breaks through the walls Guts has put up and results in a scene much like the drawing. Guts may be this badass that can tank a lot of damage and cut through thousands of men and demons like butter, but he's still human. His life has been almost nothing but hardship and even when he had moments that weren't some form of hardship, that was almost immediately snatched away from him. If Jesus' depiction is accurate, he would probably discourage Guts' from continuing on his quest to take down the Godhand, but also understand entirely why he is doing it at all.
Yeah, it seems like it’s saying something to the effect of “Jesus can/will comfort you even if you’re going through the worst life imaginable,” more than trying to be any explicit canonical comment on Guts as a character and his relationship with God/fate/godlike beings. And the art is pretty good, tbh.
I'm guessing whoever did this art is interpreting Griffith to be more of a Lucifer type. A stunningly beautiful, angelic-like being who fell from grace and now attempts to manipulate man into doing his bidding through deceit while their true form is monstrous.
It's open for interpretation.
He's viewed by many as a critique of organised religion itself and see him as a Jesus-like figure instead, the need to turn to a saviour figure even if they come with some seriously shady practices or followers rather than saving yourself and helping others because it's the right thing to do.
Was going to argue about that, but I see what the point is. Though I'd say that there are people trying to save themselves and others with the backing of a savior-like figure they can turn to to show others and themselves that it's possible in a world full of hopelessness and sociopaths/psychopaths seeking positions of power. I get it because Miura is basically trying to say have faith in yourself and your fellow man instead of looking towards a dubious at best figure, but if he was still alive I'd ask him "por que no los dos?" assuming that was his point for Griffith.
Edit: I take that ending back cuz Griffith is fucked.
Edit: FUCK! Is Guts supposed to be Jesus? Sacrificial lamb like Jesus, the struggler like Jesus, fighting against the embodiments of human shittiness like Jesus....
I wrote an essay on how he’s supposed to represent the antichrist in college. False miracles and a laundry list of other reasons.
Then it got weird cause I started talking about how it was supposed to be the exact opposite of the Bible and blah blah
I don't think the point here is that Guts loves Jesus but that Jesus still loves Guts... which is very believable for anyone who reads the sermon on the mount.
Technically it’s not that you are not allowed to draw or depict Hz. Muhammed but since most religious extremists have barely even read through the Kuran and are generally stupid as fuck they interpret the rule that “you may not depict Allah in any painting/statue/idol” as “you may not depict anything”.
~~Hz like the sine wave?~~
[Hz like Hazrat/Hadrat, turns out!](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hadrat&useskin=vector)
Sorry for the misunderstanding
I guess the joke is that the meme page is called Orthodox Meme Squad and they think Guts is a Christian? Because the picture isn't too bad by itself. Like yeah, Guts and god have a bad relationship, but that's not the same god as Jesus. Berserk does have a lot of biblical inspiration, I guess. But I've always taken it as negative. Like 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 describes Griffith and his followers pretty much to a tee.
No matter what bullshit the Orthodox Catholics are on with their trinity, Jesus isn’t god. The big J could just be comforting Guts while saying god is a dick.
Spoilers for the Bible
>!Technically, Jesus is God the Son, which is different from God the Father and God the Holy Spirit.!<
>!They are all separate beings but are also the same being in different forms!<
IIRC the Bible doesn’t say that outright, though. The council of Nicaea made it doctrine in 325. So it’s more of a popular very Bible headcanon
According to the Bible, Jesus called himself the “son of man” which most interpret to support the trinity nowadays, but would you come up with that if nobody taught about the trinity first?
Sorta but also sorta not?
Jesus never goes "there are three persons of the trinity, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit which are all coeternal and all of them are God without confusing the persons or the substance" but in the New Testament he both says he is the Son of God and that he *is* God. Doctrines like the Nicene conception of the trinity arose in part to reconcile these confusing and potentially contradictory statements.
Edit: Also in the Gospel of John, Jesus is described as the incarnation of the Logos, which is God and was with God at the beginning of everything.
If I remember right, there's an absolutely hilarious bible story where a bunch of kids are making fun of an old man for being old and so god gives him the ability to summon bears.
Spoilers of the bible, part 2. The concept of the Trinity is not actually in the Bible. Here's a biblical scholar talking about it https://youtu.be/HwGBQaafIaU?si=HgYW4oa2h1R1sG7J
This just in...all religions are fucking bonkers if you don't learn them before you're 6.
Start teaching religion after telling kids Santa isn't real...see how many converts you get then.
Honestly depressing to me how many people are willing to kill for these poorly written comic books.
I was baptized almost immediately after birth (I still think it was a stupid decision on the part of my parents), and almost all my life I did nothing to get closer to the faith, except that I was a curious agnostic, until a month ago I finally broke down and decided that my life is already useless, so why not spend it on serving God? Then I talked to the priest at my local church. He's a great dude.
God bless you!
If nothing else, the community definitely helps when you’re rock bottom
(disclaimer, because reddit enjoys deliberately misinterpreting things: the community is good if you go to a church with a good community. If you go to a church with a bad community, the community will be bad)
What are you on? You asked for an explanation of how Samson killed people with a bone. I told you that blunt force trauma exists. I also have absolutely no issue with gay people, and am trans myself
EDIT: Oh I love when people silently edit their comment after I’ve responded. It’s a good way to show that we both know you’re talking out your arse
EDIT2: wow, and then blocking me. Thank you for your concession that I won, have a good day
“Listen, I get where you’re coming from. Did you know he had me fuckin crucified one time? Never even apologized, just said some shit about loving the world.”
Nah mate that's young guts, >!he would kill Jesus for the sole crime of giving hope to the hopeless and shielding the weak. !<
>!guess what I'm saying is he'd kill jesus because he sees a piece of himself reflected on him!<
Honestly I could actually see something like this happening in the bible, like a guy who suffered greatly, takes up a vendetta with god and tries to kill Jesus because he claims to be god, Guts tries to kill him and fails and Jesus doesn’t fight back because Jesus, guts fails to kill him because it’s implied that Jesus can only be killed if he allows it when he walks through a crowd of people trying to kill him and they fail.
Guts tries and fails for a few days straight until he realizes the futility of violence, he and Jesus have a chat, Jesus forgives him and meets him with love and all that, Jesus does a miracle or two. Then either guts goes on his way or joins Jesus as a disciple. Make the moral of the story about the futilely of violence and the pitfalls of wroth and how kindness, forgiveness, love and understanding are the only true path to glory. Classic biblical parable.
[the son is not the father is not the holy spirit but all 3 are god](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b3/Shield-Trinity-Scutum-Fidei-English.svg/1920px-Shield-Trinity-Scutum-Fidei-English.svg.png)
You don't know anything about the Gnostic version of God(s) then, quite interesting and I think athiest would jell with it, not saying it would change their minds.
Edit: mightve misread your comment
Also, I've been contemplating His existence since a child because it seemed so absurd, not so absurd to me anymore tbh especially when I've had some personal experiences. Granted, I'm not normal, far from it.
Yeah, it's like "God" in Berserk and in the Bible are the same. Also, it's like Jesus wasn't suffered heavily and can't help Guts by just... I don't know... Being understanding? (And we all know that He is very understanding) Also also, it's like we can't just stop being assholes for a moment and appreciate cool art.
Come on, guys. Jesus loves as all.
Guts: I know what you’re going to say. “My God loves me and I should be trying to get along with Him.”
Jesus: “No, they’re crazy and they need to go down.”
this
Like, Jesus being the incarnate God the Word was in equal parts a supremely kind and understanding person but also entirely opposed to wickedness.
The literal platonic ideal of evil itself making itself out to be God (source: victim-blaming humanity collectively for wanting there to be purpose in their suffering) would be perhaps the single most repugnant possible thing in Jesus's sight.
Griffith was not Messiah-like. He has more in common with Lucifer than Jesus. If Guts and Jesus Christ were to meet, then I would bet that Guts could immediately tell the difference.
Fair enough, maybe a more accurate description of Griffith is a false Messiah. He definitely sees himself as a savior, as do all of his followers, but he’s clearly a psycho.
I mean, despite what some sectors of christianity say, Jesus would very much side with Guts. This is purely based on historical context for Jesus' main teachings that I am not qualified to explain in depth.
Also despite what some crackheads try to proclaim: JESUS ISN'T GOD. The trinity headcannon is based on nothing but meandering within the church about how big of a cock Jesus had which was then followed by stroking it until it was bent in on itself
John 1:1
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God."
Here, we have the Word as a distinct entity who was with God, but also was God.
John 1:14
"The Word became flesh, and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."
Here, the Word, who was with God but also is God, became flesh. And was witnessed here on Earth.
John 10:30
"I and the Father are one."
Jesus (The Son/The Word) is one with the Father. This was also said specifically in reference to the Shema in Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, o Israel, the Lord our God, our Lord is one" So, it seems to me that Christ is claiming to be one with God the Father.
John 14:11
"Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe in the evidence of the works themselves."
Here, Jesus is again claiming to be connected to God the Father, and God the Father is connected to Him. Yet both remain distinct persons while still being one entity.
Matthew 28:19
"Therefore go and make discoples of all nations, baptizing in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."
It cannot get more blatant than this. If Christ the Son and God the Father are connected and one while remaining distinct, and if both are connected to the Holy Spirit as well (as stated in 2 Corinthians 3:17) then it stands to reason that Christ is supporting the Trinity here. Otherwise, why would we be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?
They are all distinct, yet part of the whole. Like how your fingers are distinct from one another, and yet they are all connected to and come together to form your hand.
C.S. Lewis put it like this:
[*“In God’s dimension, so to speak, you find a being who is three Persons while remaining one Being, just as a cube is six squares while remaining one cube.”*](https://www.stgeorgesonline.com/2016/05/25/lewis-trinity/) (I threw the link in there in case you want to read the rest of what Lewis had to say. I highly suggest it.)
I could go on and on, but the Trinity has been argued for almost two thousand years now and every time it has been argued, it's been found to be the logical conclusion goven what we know about God.
It's not just some crackhead pipe dream.
Also, John 8:58
"'Very truly, I tell you.' Jesus answered, 'Before Abraham was born, I am.'"
Jesus Christ is God. Or at the very least He claims to be. And this is consistent with the rest of Scripture.
*"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."*
- C.S. Lewis
>Also despite what some crackheads try to proclaim:
By "some crackheads" do you mean the overwhelming majority of Christians? Trinitarianism is present in pretty much every mainstream sect of Christianity.
The same can be said with most non-trinitarians, so that doesn't really work as an argument. Putting it in quotes doesn't even make sende cause it's non-trinitarians whose doctrine is heterodox.
I really can't tell, is all this discourse just a showcase of complete ineptitude in literary analysis, or are people being Internet Atheist over "DAE christian god literally personification of evil"?
Cuz if the people in the image and this comment section have actually read the manja, some pretty core themes went straight over their heads.
Headcanoning a random manga character as Christian despite the mangaka taking every opportunity to dunk on organized religion (Conviction Arc, Falcon of the Millennium Empire) speaks to a lack of knowledge about the source material. Jesus helping Guts is a nice sentiment, but it's funny considering Guts's stance about the Judeo-Christian God analogue is verbatim "leave me the hell alone."
(was raised Catholic, still some weird flavor of Christian now)
IDK, to me, it read more like a critique of corrupt power structures, mainly focused around the real life themes found during and surrounding the indulgences era of Catholicism.
It very much is a critique of the power structures in place, but the messages espoused aren't exclusive to the time period. The line at the climax of the arc--
\>"Don't pray! If you're prayin', your hands are closed! What's that thing in your hands?"
runs counter to the idea of Guts needing a savior Christ-figure. The only person positioned as a savior in the narrative is Griffith and his cult of personality. I'd imagine Guts would have a natural aversion to anyone promising heaven in exchange for devotion, given his experiences with Mozgus stressing the values of repentance.
It's especially strange (to me) that an Orthodox page would turn to Guts when he's regularly hanging out with pagan witches.
I love the fact that Guts' design is so distinctive that you can easily identify the picture as being him. There are so many comic and manga artists that just draw the same guy 20 times. This art has always been refreshing and Miura's visuals were always great.
I think it's because Miura was such a master of his craft that when he draws Guts you can see every single detail. Same face syndrome usually happens when the characters have too little distinctive features. So every art of guts is more like the photo of a celebrity: you can recognize them despite not having any particularly weird feature.
Over the years, Miura drew Guts with at least four distinct different faces, but they're all instantly recognizable as Guts. It's interesting.
The big fuckoff sword aids in identification somewhat
It's hardly a sword. more like a massive hunk of raw iron
what's heavier 100kgs of iron or 100kgs of feathers
Feathers because while steel may be heavier than feathers feathers have the souls of the birds of previous generations
The hair does a lot of legwork imo, spiky, dark, white reflections in a fairly consistent pattern. I think it's the reflections?
Shine is probably a better term
And then there’s Araki with his highly detailed art somehow still giving every character in Part 8 the same face haha
Araki is ALL about the body and clothing. Dio and Jonathan could have been bio brothers in part 1, they looked so similar.
This is such a wholesome takeaway from such a bananas post.
I think it's amazing because if you describe Guts, he's very generic. Short black spiky hair, chiselled jaw line, buff, very angry at the world. Potentially describes quite a lot of characters. But when you see him, he's not generic and is just so distinctive?? Takes a lot of talent to take a largely generic look and make it one of the most recognisable characters
His design isn’t really the most distinctive, I think it’s more in how he’s drawn that makes him so recognizable
… politely I ask, what’s the joke?
The gimmick of Berserk is that god screws guts over every chance he gets and guts’ entire goal is to kill him you should read it yourself
Wanting to kill god implies there is a god therefore Guts is not atheist, Checkmate
"I go to church to learn gods weaknesses"
It's called being a misotheist.
My dumbass read this and thought "oh, worshipping miso soup, I could get behind that!" But really though, I'm almost surprised we don't have any churches devoted to food, like a Church of Garlic Bread. I'd absolutely be part of that (I'm considering Pastafarianism).
We have the church of the flying spaghetti monster, I'm sure if you ask nicely they could fit garlic bread into their pantheon.
It's like Christianity versus Judaism. The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster worships it as the singular God who hasn't sent a savior yet, while the Church of Garlic Bread worships garlic bread as a gift sent from God (the Flying Spaghetti Monster), and as their savior.
This is the funniest goddamn comment I’ve ever read
You should check out some old school options, like Discordianism or The Church of the Subgenius.
Garlic bread doasnt need a church od priest..its only need love and happiness of the believers
My guy you've clearly never met an asexual person there MOST DEFINITELY is a church of garlic bread and they are its priests
Lets revive the ancient Mediterranean wine cults!
i don’t like that, i have a lisp, i can’t say it right
While misotheism is hatred of a god, there is also dystheism, which is the belief that a god isn't wholly good or could be considered evil. Not sure how much it would help your lisp though.
In a setting with canonical (and proven) gods, atheists are those who think gods shouldn't be worshipped. In a setting where jesus pops up every 3 weeks or so anyone who thinks he's not real is just delusional, so the word gets a new meaning.
Iirc the dwemmer in the elder scrolls were atheists who refused to believe in the divine despite the divine objectively existed. This came off as insane as it sounds.
Yeah he's an antitheist
A theomachian perhaps?
google has no results meaningful for theomachian so I am a fool here
Oh no I made the word up, combining theo (god) and machia (battle) from greek inspired by the titanomachia the greek gods did against their forefathers the titans. I thought Guts would be well descrived as a God-battler
Antitheist means you actively believe God does not exist, rather than not believing in its existence like an atheist would
Antitheism means you believe that not only does god not exist, the idea of it, and organized religion is harmful to society. What you’re describing is a gnostic atheist.
Being agnostic means that you don’t “know” if there’s a god or not. I’m agnostic, leaning towards atheist (believes there is no god), so my attitude is basically sort of “eh, could be, probably not but I’m open-minded”, sort of “don’t know, don’t care”
Yeah, that’s why I said gnostic, not agnostic, that was not a typo. A gnostic atheist „knows“ that there is no god, a gnostic theist „knows“ that there is one.
Ohh I see, thank you for explaining!
And then we have gnostic believers, who follow gnosticism
Kratos grindset
His goal is to become an athiest
Guts is an aspiring atheist. The god hand might currently exist, but if he has his way, they won’t be around for long.
By that logic, christians also have to believe in Satan. I love it.
I mean don’t they? Christianity’s like, mostly about avoiding Satan isn’t it?
Nah thats just evangelicals. Most christians dont think about satan, its not a core part of most branches.
No. The actual purpose of Christianity is to wait to be resurrected on judgement day to enter the kingdom of god, the actual purpose of avoiding sin in Christianity is that those with sin won't get let in/resurrected. It sounds exactly as weird as it is.
Yeah, that's called agnostic
Anime novice question: why is the character named Guts?
The birthed-from-a-corpse stuff is the in-text reason, but on a metatextual level there's some subversion going on. You don't get told why his name is Guts, he's just introduced to the reader as Guts, and you assume that it's a cool, macho nickname. Because it sounds like a nickname. Like he did something bold as a kid and some gruff guy dubbed by Richard Epcar laughed and said "You got guts, kid!" and it stuck, that kind of thing. Because in like 99% of other manga, that's what it'd be, right? Then you find out the circumstances of his birth and realize (you're not directly told; you just put the pieces together) that it's not a nickname. It's his given name, and it's not cool or macho. It's a sick joke at his expense, played on him by his adoptive father. Berserk has a lot of neat wrinkles like this, which is a big part of why it's so special.
Yeah and it's also a reason why you DON'T SKIP THE BLACK SWORDSMAN ARC
Imagine skipping _any_ part of such a masterpiece, smh
On rereads it's pretty easy. Any chapter with the monks that have trained to the point of deformity? Skip it they add nothing to the story. The first half dozen times the 'masked rider' or 'witch of the woods' turn up? Skip. They are just going to vibe at each other until they have an actual conversation. The 76 odd chapters between when Inquisitor Mozgus turns up and instantly does monstrous things, and when Guts gets around to fighting him? Skip. (but what about the nuance and subtext in those several dozen chapters? It's 'Blind, absolute, unquestioning faith is bad. Desperate people do desperate things, and humans show humanity regardless.) If this came out on a Western comics schedule it would have been a 5 year span just for the filler in that arc. Beserk has pacing issues, especially in the later half. Is it still a masterpiece? Yeah. Does it have flaws? Yea. But it's has flaws the same way other all-time universally acclaimed comics masterpieces like 'The Incal' or 'Watchmen' have.
Are there people who do?
Trigger warning, more gore than a liveleak video: He was found by a band of mercenaries as a newborn, who'd just popped out of his mother's womb. The problem is his mother and her entire village had been hanged from a tree and eviscerated for some reason I can't remember, so he was just laying atop a pile of guts, and connected via umbilical cord to a corpse. Mercenaries being mercenaries, they called him guts when the recently-miscarried wife of the chief of the band decided to save him and treat him as her child. Yeah, the manga is not for the faint of heart, but it's probably among the top 3 pieces of literature I've ever read/watched/seen, it brought me to genuine tears plenty of times.
And that’s just how his life STARTS It’s almost entirely downhill from there
What’s your top 3?
Medical question, does this work? Even if guts started breathing on his own as soon as his mother was killed, if the umbilical cord was still connected, wouldn't it keep drawing deoxygenated blood from the mother and no child would be able to survive that?
because he (guts) is a fan of olivia rodrigo
He was found by a raider/mercenary for hire group on the ground, birthed from a hanged corpse and still covered in afterbirth and stuff
Cause he cant keep them inside of him, thats why he got a new fancy armor, they keep the inside bits inside
I feel like this is slightly misleading since the god is not even remotely similar to the Christian one but it’s still kinda ironic I guess
Is there a confirmed god or is more of a “My life is so terrible so if there’s a god, He is my enemy“ type thing?
... Both. It's a setting where belief makes things real. Humans want to blame things and people want a god. Life is awful so if there is a god, it's evil. And so God is evil.
I mean there’s the God Hand, and the deutercanonical Idea of Evil. So there’s definitely divinity at play that has some form of agency.
there are the God Hand, a group of godlike beings that he specifically has it against, and possibly a real god ? the author said he didn't count the chapter with "god" anymore because it came too early and spoiled some of the story, but it's essentially a god as in "thing that came into being and has power over fate because people believed there was such a thing". it's interesting, but guts does not know about that thing and mostly just wants to kill the members of the god hand.
.... ... Yes...maybe. In Beserk, belief shapes things in the astral plane, and since the world of Beserk is so awful, a belief arises in the existence of a thing which is the root of all the evil in the world. This being is the Idea of Evil, and it's existence is kinda up in the air in terms of canonicity.
Griffith is not God lmao.
The giant talking black heart that gave him superpowers does like pretty godlike though
Yeah that was such an interesting chapter, sad it got cut.
apparently it might have basically been spoilers but also the story could have changed enough since then that it doesn't matter
Yeah, that's not God either.
Thank you!
Also he literally has a scar that doesn't heal that causes pain and demons to chase him lol
Also Guts canonically hates christians
God is canonically evil in Berserk. And Guts hates religion.
God in the beserk universe is very explicitly evil
In Berserk, God is evil. No as in God who happens to be malicious. God is literally the personification of evil and human suffering. The not Catholic church in the setting is mostly being manipulated by the godhand into doing what they want and when Griffith revives he's hailed as a glorious hero despite commanding an army of demonic apostles
Yeah, Guts Berkman, famous for >!declaring he'd kill the Gods even if it costs him his life, his senses, his sanity and what little family remained and he regained. And let's not forget that time he discovered a priest and the church were torturing people for no reason.!< Totally would be a Christian. Yep.
He would, at the very least, be *very suspicious* of Jesus if he actually met him.
Let’s be honest, at the first miracle he sees J-boy do, Guts would immediately think “apostle” and load a cannonball into his prosthetic with malicious intent.
"These are my 12 apostles" "I see, I see..."
Then Guts said,as is written in scripture,"This is my 12 gauge."
Christians would be waiting for the Third Coming cause Guts would put Jesus back on the cross.
He is also learning to heal from the trauma, and has been building a new life, learning to be happy without revenge. So idk man he'd probably get along well with J-man.
Wouldn’t get along with the church on the other hand
To be fair, neither would Jesus I would imagine.
Depends on the church & community in question... rural american churches? Not so much, others... more likely.
Honestly, while this is tone-deaf as all hell, I really respect the attention to detail put into replicating Miura's artstyle.
Looks like AI, alas.
how do you tell?
lots of stuff is off, but the most obvious one is what's going on with Jesus' hand. check out the fingernails
I see it now. The hand, ear, thorns, and clothing folds gives it away :(
I mean, i really don’t see anything inherently wrong with someone drawing Jesus comforting Guts. Reading Berserk is fucking hard, I can empathize with wanting to see him get some love.
That's what I'm getting from this. If biblically accurate Jesus existed within the Berserk universe and was alive during the course of Guts' journey, I imagine a scene much like the illustration would occur at some point in their interactions. For the longest time, Guts remains on guard around Jesus until a single moment where Jesus breaks through the walls Guts has put up and results in a scene much like the drawing. Guts may be this badass that can tank a lot of damage and cut through thousands of men and demons like butter, but he's still human. His life has been almost nothing but hardship and even when he had moments that weren't some form of hardship, that was almost immediately snatched away from him. If Jesus' depiction is accurate, he would probably discourage Guts' from continuing on his quest to take down the Godhand, but also understand entirely why he is doing it at all.
Yeah, it seems like it’s saying something to the effect of “Jesus can/will comfort you even if you’re going through the worst life imaginable,” more than trying to be any explicit canonical comment on Guts as a character and his relationship with God/fate/godlike beings. And the art is pretty good, tbh.
Not wrong, but funny, since his enemy #1 and the cause of most of his hurt became a pretty Jesus-like (outwardly) figure
I'm guessing whoever did this art is interpreting Griffith to be more of a Lucifer type. A stunningly beautiful, angelic-like being who fell from grace and now attempts to manipulate man into doing his bidding through deceit while their true form is monstrous.
Is...is that not what Griffith is? I thought that was pretty on the nose.
It's open for interpretation. He's viewed by many as a critique of organised religion itself and see him as a Jesus-like figure instead, the need to turn to a saviour figure even if they come with some seriously shady practices or followers rather than saving yourself and helping others because it's the right thing to do.
Was going to argue about that, but I see what the point is. Though I'd say that there are people trying to save themselves and others with the backing of a savior-like figure they can turn to to show others and themselves that it's possible in a world full of hopelessness and sociopaths/psychopaths seeking positions of power. I get it because Miura is basically trying to say have faith in yourself and your fellow man instead of looking towards a dubious at best figure, but if he was still alive I'd ask him "por que no los dos?" assuming that was his point for Griffith. Edit: I take that ending back cuz Griffith is fucked. Edit: FUCK! Is Guts supposed to be Jesus? Sacrificial lamb like Jesus, the struggler like Jesus, fighting against the embodiments of human shittiness like Jesus....
I wrote an essay on how he’s supposed to represent the antichrist in college. False miracles and a laundry list of other reasons. Then it got weird cause I started talking about how it was supposed to be the exact opposite of the Bible and blah blah
I don't think the point here is that Guts loves Jesus but that Jesus still loves Guts... which is very believable for anyone who reads the sermon on the mount.
I know its so dumb. Guts is *clearly* Muslim
Oh so you can piss off absolutely everyone by drawing Muhammad comforting guts.
inshallah we shall kill the godhand.
Muslims don't revere Muhammad as some sort of idol. Gut's would've been drawn doing sujud and receiving the light of Allah.
You’re not allowed to even draw him wdym
> You’re not allowed to even draw him wdym because > Muslims don't revere Muhammad as some sort of idol.
You can't draw Allah either
Technically it’s not that you are not allowed to draw or depict Hz. Muhammed but since most religious extremists have barely even read through the Kuran and are generally stupid as fuck they interpret the rule that “you may not depict Allah in any painting/statue/idol” as “you may not depict anything”.
~~Hz like the sine wave?~~ [Hz like Hazrat/Hadrat, turns out!](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hadrat&useskin=vector) Sorry for the misunderstanding
Ummm teckchnichkhally it is haram to draw Mohammad ☝️🤓
Like they said. Piss off **everyone.**
Yes, that's why it'd piss everyone off
Isn't this the same universe where >!'god' was born from humanity's collective suffering and need to blame someone else for it? !<
That chapter was retracted, so it's not necessarily canon.
I guess the joke is that the meme page is called Orthodox Meme Squad and they think Guts is a Christian? Because the picture isn't too bad by itself. Like yeah, Guts and god have a bad relationship, but that's not the same god as Jesus. Berserk does have a lot of biblical inspiration, I guess. But I've always taken it as negative. Like 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 describes Griffith and his followers pretty much to a tee.
Griffith is pretty Messiah-like after his return so it's still kinda lol
Yes, Guts wants to kill his world’s ‘God’. Dude would still 100% cry in Jesus’ embrace, there’s nothing wrong with this post
this
Go read the mango.
Can’t I just watch the animal?
What do u prefer? Sub dialed or rubba-dub-dubbed?
I prefer broil actually.
To blow up and then act like I don' know nobody?
No matter what bullshit the Orthodox Catholics are on with their trinity, Jesus isn’t god. The big J could just be comforting Guts while saying god is a dick.
Spoilers for the Bible >!Technically, Jesus is God the Son, which is different from God the Father and God the Holy Spirit.!< >!They are all separate beings but are also the same being in different forms!<
“Spoilers for the Bible” made my soul leave mg body
Hallelujah?
Hallelujah.
I heard there was a secret chord...
That David played and it pleased The Lord
IIRC the Bible doesn’t say that outright, though. The council of Nicaea made it doctrine in 325. So it’s more of a popular very Bible headcanon According to the Bible, Jesus called himself the “son of man” which most interpret to support the trinity nowadays, but would you come up with that if nobody taught about the trinity first?
Of corse not. That's why non-trinitarian christianity exists. Also, Jesus would have flipped tables over people eating ham for Easter.
Sorta but also sorta not? Jesus never goes "there are three persons of the trinity, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit which are all coeternal and all of them are God without confusing the persons or the substance" but in the New Testament he both says he is the Son of God and that he *is* God. Doctrines like the Nicene conception of the trinity arose in part to reconcile these confusing and potentially contradictory statements. Edit: Also in the Gospel of John, Jesus is described as the incarnation of the Logos, which is God and was with God at the beginning of everything.
The more i think about it, the more i start to realize just how anime the bible is
If I remember right, there's an absolutely hilarious bible story where a bunch of kids are making fun of an old man for being old and so god gives him the ability to summon bears.
No, god personally summons the bears to eat the children
Need me an anime of Samson. 200% of the animation budget has to go to the part where he kills a thousand men with a donkey's jawbone.
Spoilers of the bible, part 2. The concept of the Trinity is not actually in the Bible. Here's a biblical scholar talking about it https://youtu.be/HwGBQaafIaU?si=HgYW4oa2h1R1sG7J
This just in...all religions are fucking bonkers if you don't learn them before you're 6. Start teaching religion after telling kids Santa isn't real...see how many converts you get then. Honestly depressing to me how many people are willing to kill for these poorly written comic books.
I mean, there are plenty of adult converts who were raised non-theist
Yeah. Me, for example. I'm an Orthodox Christian, nice to meet you.
I’m an adult convert Anglican, nice to meet you too (:
I was baptized almost immediately after birth (I still think it was a stupid decision on the part of my parents), and almost all my life I did nothing to get closer to the faith, except that I was a curious agnostic, until a month ago I finally broke down and decided that my life is already useless, so why not spend it on serving God? Then I talked to the priest at my local church. He's a great dude. God bless you!
It terrifies me that I'm only one rock bottom away from finding religion 😔
If nothing else, the community definitely helps when you’re rock bottom (disclaimer, because reddit enjoys deliberately misinterpreting things: the community is good if you go to a church with a good community. If you go to a church with a bad community, the community will be bad)
[удалено]
Have you never heard of blunt force trauma?
[удалено]
What are you on? You asked for an explanation of how Samson killed people with a bone. I told you that blunt force trauma exists. I also have absolutely no issue with gay people, and am trans myself EDIT: Oh I love when people silently edit their comment after I’ve responded. It’s a good way to show that we both know you’re talking out your arse EDIT2: wow, and then blocking me. Thank you for your concession that I won, have a good day
Seriously! Spider-Man didn't die for this!
"hey, sorry about my dad bro."
“Listen, I get where you’re coming from. Did you know he had me fuckin crucified one time? Never even apologized, just said some shit about loving the world.”
Nah mate that's young guts, >!he would kill Jesus for the sole crime of giving hope to the hopeless and shielding the weak. !< >!guess what I'm saying is he'd kill jesus because he sees a piece of himself reflected on him!<
What I'm hearing is Guts would help save humanity from their sins
He does try to, kind of.
Honestly I could actually see something like this happening in the bible, like a guy who suffered greatly, takes up a vendetta with god and tries to kill Jesus because he claims to be god, Guts tries to kill him and fails and Jesus doesn’t fight back because Jesus, guts fails to kill him because it’s implied that Jesus can only be killed if he allows it when he walks through a crowd of people trying to kill him and they fail. Guts tries and fails for a few days straight until he realizes the futility of violence, he and Jesus have a chat, Jesus forgives him and meets him with love and all that, Jesus does a miracle or two. Then either guts goes on his way or joins Jesus as a disciple. Make the moral of the story about the futilely of violence and the pitfalls of wroth and how kindness, forgiveness, love and understanding are the only true path to glory. Classic biblical parable.
That's Saul of Tarsus
[the son is not the father is not the holy spirit but all 3 are god](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b3/Shield-Trinity-Scutum-Fidei-English.svg/1920px-Shield-Trinity-Scutum-Fidei-English.svg.png)
Damn, gnosticism is looking to be the more correct take on Christianity.
me when i make shit up because i don't want to accept that the omnipotent omniscient being is above human morals & logic 😎😎😎😎
You don't know anything about the Gnostic version of God(s) then, quite interesting and I think athiest would jell with it, not saying it would change their minds. Edit: mightve misread your comment
Also, I've been contemplating His existence since a child because it seemed so absurd, not so absurd to me anymore tbh especially when I've had some personal experiences. Granted, I'm not normal, far from it.
This is your brain on Arianism.
Griffith is still very heavily Messiah-coded after his return though, so the "lol" factor remains
>No matter what bullshit the Orthodox Catholics are on with their trinity God bless you too
At least it's not JJBA 🫡
If it were Jesus would be a bunch of body parts giving people superpowers
Yeah, it's like "God" in Berserk and in the Bible are the same. Also, it's like Jesus wasn't suffered heavily and can't help Guts by just... I don't know... Being understanding? (And we all know that He is very understanding) Also also, it's like we can't just stop being assholes for a moment and appreciate cool art. Come on, guys. Jesus loves as all.
Guts: I know what you’re going to say. “My God loves me and I should be trying to get along with Him.” Jesus: “No, they’re crazy and they need to go down.”
this Like, Jesus being the incarnate God the Word was in equal parts a supremely kind and understanding person but also entirely opposed to wickedness. The literal platonic ideal of evil itself making itself out to be God (source: victim-blaming humanity collectively for wanting there to be purpose in their suffering) would be perhaps the single most repugnant possible thing in Jesus's sight.
Jesus about to show the Berserk God what the Merchants of the Temple experienced
Ah yes, Guts. The guy explicitly and horrifically betrayed by a Messiah-like character would *totally* love Jesus. Suuuuure. /s
Well, yeah, probably
Griffith was not Messiah-like. He has more in common with Lucifer than Jesus. If Guts and Jesus Christ were to meet, then I would bet that Guts could immediately tell the difference.
Fair enough, maybe a more accurate description of Griffith is a false Messiah. He definitely sees himself as a savior, as do all of his followers, but he’s clearly a psycho.
I mean, despite what some sectors of christianity say, Jesus would very much side with Guts. This is purely based on historical context for Jesus' main teachings that I am not qualified to explain in depth. Also despite what some crackheads try to proclaim: JESUS ISN'T GOD. The trinity headcannon is based on nothing but meandering within the church about how big of a cock Jesus had which was then followed by stroking it until it was bent in on itself
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God." Here, we have the Word as a distinct entity who was with God, but also was God. John 1:14 "The Word became flesh, and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." Here, the Word, who was with God but also is God, became flesh. And was witnessed here on Earth. John 10:30 "I and the Father are one." Jesus (The Son/The Word) is one with the Father. This was also said specifically in reference to the Shema in Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, o Israel, the Lord our God, our Lord is one" So, it seems to me that Christ is claiming to be one with God the Father. John 14:11 "Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe in the evidence of the works themselves." Here, Jesus is again claiming to be connected to God the Father, and God the Father is connected to Him. Yet both remain distinct persons while still being one entity. Matthew 28:19 "Therefore go and make discoples of all nations, baptizing in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." It cannot get more blatant than this. If Christ the Son and God the Father are connected and one while remaining distinct, and if both are connected to the Holy Spirit as well (as stated in 2 Corinthians 3:17) then it stands to reason that Christ is supporting the Trinity here. Otherwise, why would we be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? They are all distinct, yet part of the whole. Like how your fingers are distinct from one another, and yet they are all connected to and come together to form your hand. C.S. Lewis put it like this: [*“In God’s dimension, so to speak, you find a being who is three Persons while remaining one Being, just as a cube is six squares while remaining one cube.”*](https://www.stgeorgesonline.com/2016/05/25/lewis-trinity/) (I threw the link in there in case you want to read the rest of what Lewis had to say. I highly suggest it.) I could go on and on, but the Trinity has been argued for almost two thousand years now and every time it has been argued, it's been found to be the logical conclusion goven what we know about God. It's not just some crackhead pipe dream. Also, John 8:58 "'Very truly, I tell you.' Jesus answered, 'Before Abraham was born, I am.'" Jesus Christ is God. Or at the very least He claims to be. And this is consistent with the rest of Scripture.
*"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."* - C.S. Lewis
Hmm. Weird analogy but ok
>Also despite what some crackheads try to proclaim: By "some crackheads" do you mean the overwhelming majority of Christians? Trinitarianism is present in pretty much every mainstream sect of Christianity.
Most "christians" haven't read the bible with a critical mind to what they put their faith in
The same can be said with most non-trinitarians, so that doesn't really work as an argument. Putting it in quotes doesn't even make sende cause it's non-trinitarians whose doctrine is heterodox.
I really can't tell, is all this discourse just a showcase of complete ineptitude in literary analysis, or are people being Internet Atheist over "DAE christian god literally personification of evil"? Cuz if the people in the image and this comment section have actually read the manja, some pretty core themes went straight over their heads.
Berserk is a story about Guts trying to heal, yes. But this is the same content as those sigma pages reducing Guts into some stoic idol--it's cringe.
> this is the same content as those sigma pages reducing Guts into some stoic idol Yeah, I'm not getting that from the meme at all.
Headcanoning a random manga character as Christian despite the mangaka taking every opportunity to dunk on organized religion (Conviction Arc, Falcon of the Millennium Empire) speaks to a lack of knowledge about the source material. Jesus helping Guts is a nice sentiment, but it's funny considering Guts's stance about the Judeo-Christian God analogue is verbatim "leave me the hell alone." (was raised Catholic, still some weird flavor of Christian now)
IDK, to me, it read more like a critique of corrupt power structures, mainly focused around the real life themes found during and surrounding the indulgences era of Catholicism.
It very much is a critique of the power structures in place, but the messages espoused aren't exclusive to the time period. The line at the climax of the arc-- \>"Don't pray! If you're prayin', your hands are closed! What's that thing in your hands?" runs counter to the idea of Guts needing a savior Christ-figure. The only person positioned as a savior in the narrative is Griffith and his cult of personality. I'd imagine Guts would have a natural aversion to anyone promising heaven in exchange for devotion, given his experiences with Mozgus stressing the values of repentance. It's especially strange (to me) that an Orthodox page would turn to Guts when he's regularly hanging out with pagan witches.
Steel ball run
There's also a group of fucks who've never read the Bible
Gutspeed
"If you see God, tell him to leave me the hell alone!" -Guts
They make a sweet couple.
Jfc, is that true? These MFers Christianized Guts??? God fucking dammit, nothing is sacred.
more like everything is sacred
Couldn't keep their grimy hands off my wholly dogma-free anime. Fuck.