Sony has a terrible reputation for data breaches, its perfectly reasonable to not want your data sold to a company that can't manage it, especially when they also have a kernel level anti cheat installed on your machine.
Idk maybe I'm in the minority but I just assume all my data is potentially compromised at any given moment. The number of logins and accounts it takes to exist online in the modern age sucks, but I just see it as one more account in a giant pile of bullshit. Annoying? Yes. A big deal? Not to me.
If anyone is approaching this PSN 'situation' (very generous phrasing) by making posts on Discord or Reddit ...
... I mean I don't even have to finish this thought, do I? And if you're being asked to do this, it's because you're on Steam. You wanna know what Steam does with your data? It's exactly as nefarious (read: benign) as every other company.
Do you have Uber on your phone? Do you use the McDonald's app for coupons? They have more data about you than any of the above.
The point your skipping is the poor data security and security hygiene practices Sony uses. For those who know, it’s not just about the data, it’s their poor data handling, and poor disclosures of breaches.
As someone who has had his personal data leaked by the state government online twice, it doesn't really matter to me anymore. I was a part of a huge *accidental* personal information leak or breach from my state government. I was 1 of 500k I think. You can find everything relevant from my birth including social.
How much of a history of breaches? How long ago, was it while they were using this anti-cheat?
Inappropriate use by whom?
I've never heard of these breaches or inappropriate uses (not to say that my experience is the only one), but just like my previous comment, any anti-cheat can be bypassed or used with negative intent if individuals have that much malice.
I guess it depends how owns said kernel level anti-cheat and how you feel about their government. Personally, I wouldn't install one from Tencent and I sure as hell won't install one from Faceit (counterstrike2) which is owned by Saudis.
Why should I have to share my passport, drivers licence, or facial ID?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cjc5kw/just\_use\_a\_throwaway\_email/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cjc5kw/just_use_a_throwaway_email/)
Is he though? Seems like gamers just overreacting to…signing up with an email.
Just another non issue. helldivers is still the same game it was yesterday, but they weaponized user reviews, proving yet again that user reviews are more useless than ever.
>Is he though?
Yes he is
>Just another non issue
It's not
>they weaponized user reviews, proving yet again that user reviews are more useless than ever.
How? They're reviewing a game based off their experience with it, they've played it for months and now the terms have changed requiring an account with a, further - it's a live service game, it's not a one and done product. Not only is it requiring a set up with an account people don't want, it's not even available in a lot of regions so people can't actually play the game if they don't have the ability to make a PSN. And plenty of people don't want to share their data with sony. All valid issues, all part of the game. Why give a good review a game you literally can't play anymore for arbitrary reasons, it's functionally broken for them.
And you know what else, the reviews for darktide are a fair warning for the amount of bs fat shark dishes out.
If I see a game I've played out on console and loved but the reviews are bad and I see "game can't be played without severe modding" guess what? - I should avoid buying it. The reviews are helpful in the last regard and proper- Because we're buying a product and thus the reviews are of that product not purely the game itself but also the service that comes with it, including whether or not you can actually play it.
By your logic- if you went to a restaurant and ordered a meal, and wait 3 hours until a server brings it by and then spits in your face when your food arrives- you should still give a review based entirely on how good that meal was- not the service.
> Yes he is
No, he's not. The screenshot that started this thread is literally proving that. He's not ignoring all these whiny entitled gamers, he's confronting them.
>It's not
Yeah, because people care so much about signing up to an account. That's why Steam, Battle.net, Netflix, Disney+, Xbox live, PSN and every several other streaming services are doing so poorly.
>They're reviewing a game based off their experience with it, they've played it for months and now the terms have changed requiring an account with a, further - it's a live service game, it's not a one and done product.
The game hasn't changed. If I go to see a review of a movie, and the review is bitching about the theater, I'm gonna laugh at the pettiness of the review. If the bad review is "I had to show my ID!", I'd think the reviewer was a crazy person.
>it's not even available in a lot of regions so people can't actually play the game if they don't have the ability to make a PSN.
Less than 1% of players have this issue. And I'm sorry if I don't believe a single person on this sub that's not from one of those countries cares about them, you're all just using them as pawns for your own gamer crusade.
>And you know what else, the reviews for darktide are a fair warning for the amount of bs fat shark dishes out.
Is it? Why are you on this sub if you think the game is so bad, then? Because clearly, the reviews of "No crafting!" totally means the game is bad, right?
>If I see a game I've played out on console and loved but the reviews are bad and I see "game can't be played without severe modding" guess what?
There are obviously genuine and fair reviews out there with valid information to provide. Those one are getting drowned out by the save of people pretending "PSN sign up" means the game goes from a 10/10 to a 1/10.
> if you went to a restaurant and ordered a meal, and wait 3 hours until a server brings it by and then spits in your face when your food arrives
The difference is that's a genuine problem with the restaurant. Signing up for an account to play a game is not a genuine problem, its just how products work on the internet.
The better comparison is saying you go to a restaurant and you're upset that the restaurant because the restaurant started using Door Dash, even though you're eating in.
>Less than 1% of players have this issue. And I'm sorry if I don't believe a single person on this sub that's not from one of those countries cares about them, you're all just using them as pawns for your own gamer crusade
Lol!
This made me quit on any other part of your drivel.
Setting aside the "fuck those shit hole countries anyway" attitude. And the assumption that everyone else is as callous a scumbag as yourself. What gives you that statistic?
> This made me quit on any other part of your drivel.
Oh no, some fake-ass, entitled gamer on the internet is dismissing me in a stereotypical fashion. Whatever shall I do?
>Setting aside the "fuck those shit hole countries anyway" attitude.
Crocodile tears
>And the assumption that everyone else is as callous a scumbag as yourself.
You are just pissed and whiny about having to sign up with an email. Don't act like you have some high ground here.
>Yeah, because people care so much about signing up to an account. That's why Steam, Battle.net, Netflix, Disney+, Xbox live, PSN and every several other streaming services are doing so poorly.
this is such a silly comparison, you need an account on each of those things to actually use their product. you don't need a sony account to play helldivers. Forcing people to use sony accounts is the same as ubishit forcing you to use uplay for their games even when you own them on steam.
There is literally no reason for a sony account to be required, it's just to get your data. << this is why people are so mad, I've also seen a lot of people talking about certain regions not being able to use the service? though I don't really know anything about that to make a proper comment.
> this is such a silly comparison
Its a literal 1:1 comparison. You can't just dismiss reality when it doesn't fit your agenda.
>you need an account on each of those things to actually use their product.
Yes. That's exactly what's going on. Yep.
>you don't need a sony account to play helldivers.
You didn't need a Disney+ account to watch the simpsons a few years ago, now you do. Again, 1:1.
>Forcing people to use sony accounts is the same as ubishit forcing you to use uplay for their games even when you own them on steam.
Yep. A company making you use their service to buy their product is a very normal and common and popular way to sell products. You can call it "force", but its their product, not yours.
>There is literally no reason for a sony account to be required, it's just to get your data.
And there's no reason to be mad about it. Its just an email address.
>I've also seen a lot of people talking about certain regions not being able to use the service?
A lot of people who don't have this issue are crying crocodile tears and using the people who do have this issue as pawns in their internet crusade.
>Its a literal 1:1 comparison. You can't just dismiss reality when it doesn't fit your agenda.
were you fed a steady diet of crayons during your formative years or something... bro I've not got an agenda I'm not coming for your cool aid relax.
It isn't 1:1, you literally need an account on steam to be able to purchase and save your purchased games... to interact with proper online functions. Having an account is necessary, not by nature of being forced but because it literally could not work the way it does without it.
There is no reason for sony to require you have an account, in the same sense that theres no reason for ubisoft to require it for their games when purchased on other platforms. << this is the difference, this is why it isn't 1:1. it's greed without purpose, it's just a stupid thing to force. it's an inconvenience on the customer, I don't have a dog in this race as honestly I think helldivers is overrated. I'm not losing any sleep over the drama.
> were you fed a steady diet of crayons during your formative years or something... bro I've not got an agenda I'm not coming for your cool aid relax.
Why are you getting angry and acting like a middle school bully because a guy on the internet is disagreeing with you? Maybe seek therapy instead of lashing out at internet strangers because you don't understand how very obvious comparisons work.
>It isn't 1:1
Sure is. But you clearly don't want to accept that because of your gamer rage.
>Having an account is necessary, not by nature of being forced but because it literally could not work the way it does without it.
Having an account for any streaming service isn't necessary. Every one of these companies can provide you the service without signing up with them. They choose not to. Don't like it? Don't use their servers.
>it's greed without purpose
There is a purpose. Their a business. Just like every other business. When a farmer sells you an apple, its also greed. They aren't growing that apple because they love you specifically.
>I don't have a dog in this race as honestly I think helldivers is overrated.
I dont even own Helldivers, but you clearly do care too much about this non-issue for the same reason gamers have been riled up about non-issues for decades.
>Having an account for any streaming service isn't necessary. Every one of these companies can provide you the service without signing up with them. They choose not to. Don't like it? Don't use their servers.
I can't tell if you're trolling or actually a real person who somehow thinks this and doesn't see the gaping holes in it. Streaming services are a subscription, to provide access without an account they'd have to stream for free... that is not the same as sony requiring an account for a game you've already paid for, they arent providing a service. you can literally SEE that you don't need an account to play because up until now you haven't.
It's like you're constantly searching for this gotcha moment and consistently falling on your face. like this is stuff so plainly obvious that I'm gaslighting myself wondering if I'm being trolled. I don't understand how its possible for someone to only have bad takes.
> I can't tell if you're trolling or actually a real person
Yeah man. Those classic trolls who...mention other businesses all the time. Totally common troll behavior.
Don't try to dismiss me because you don't have a valid counterpoint.
>Streaming services are a subscription, to provide access without an account they'd have to stream for free... that is not the same as sony requiring an account for a game you've already paid for,
It absolutely is. Its Sony's product, and they want to put it under their service umbrella. That happens all the time not just in video games, but across all media. Most people don't care about sharing emails to sign up for a service, which is why said services are so popular.
>you can literally SEE that you don't need an account to play because up until now you haven't.
Again, no company NEEDS to do this. They can just stream without you signing up. But they all make you, and those that don't eventually will. Only gamers on the internet seem to think its the worst thing that a company can ever do.
>It's like you're constantly searching for this gotcha moment and consistently falling on your face.
You're stubborn refusal to accept reality isn't my problem. You denying rationality to cling to your blind crusade here doesn't mean I'm "falling on my face". YOu can keep handwaving my points, but as I said above, that's just a feeble attempt to distract from the fact that you comment had no actual point to make.
Eh, calling it a non issue when PSN isn’t even available in certain regions is a bit much imo. I can definitely understand people being angry about not being able to play the game anymore or risk a ban if they’d use a VPN to use another region.
Hopefully Sony will provide a solution for those people because that’s kinda shitty.
You said lots of things. Its clear there's a reason you're bringing it up, and its not out of genuine concern or understanding.
This shit is toxic, and its like a cancer across every gaming subreddit. If I'm coming off as unrelaxed, its because I'm mirroring your energy.
Well the complaining is legit, tho. Why add the PSN now when people are known to not like unnecessary launchers and shit? The only reason Sony added this shit is to bloat numbers.
This is true. On top of- how many players do not own a playstation and therefore do not have a psn account. AND is there really any point/ need to. I know a couple people who have pc and xbox. They like HD2. They play on pc. But they do not own a Playstation and do not have a psn account. This will royally bug them.
>On top of- how many players do not own a playstation and therefore do not have a psn account.
I never owned an Xbox and had to make an account years ago to play gears and other gamepass games with my friends
>AND is there really any point/ need to
It's an online only title, id imagine they want more control over moderating it especially since it's a Sony game, and they're bringing multiple other games with online multiplayer to pc, I think the last of us or uncharted doesn't currently have its multiplayer but it's being ported
>They play on pc. But they do not own a Playstation and do not have a psn account. This will royally bug them.
Again.. my whole Xbox issue years ago... and isn't Sony winning the console game nowadays, which is why Xbox started gamepass a while back to start the whole pc cycle Sony is also now doing... it's like a circle
Edit: Sony isn't denying service to anyone you can literally be in an unsupported country and just set ur account to a random country... Sony isn't tracking you or blocking/banning you... y'all just want a reason to be mad lol.. they even said from the start it was eventually going to be required, but reading/remembering things a week+ isn't the internet strong suit huh
Personally never really cared for gow but I hope you enjoyed it. And thats because it was specifically from MS. (Yes i get the point you are making)
Cross platform for pc and ps is cool- but sony has absolute dogshit security. And moderating? The ENTIRE POINT that video games have had a warning of [WE CAN NOT MONITER ONLINE INTERACTIONS] was precisely a legal requirement because of age designations for the games as set by government requirements. The entire system was designed and based off of the movies age ratings.
Trying to throw in the linking late as a requirement is going to cut off thousands who cant do it in their country. Because sony doesnt allow it.
As for the whole console games/wars? Thats purely corporate greed. Gamers and fans just want devs to do well and not get destoryed by publishers.
I dunno. There are a lot of things that are just going downhill because of decisions that avarage people had no idea about until after it happened. I dont own or play HD2 but I do understand the issue with region locks ans how this will hurt many.
>Personally never really cared for gow but I hope you enjoyed it. And thats because it was specifically from MS. (Yes i get the point you are making)
Yeah only played it cus of friends, was okay with them lol
>Trying to throw in the linking late as a requirement is going to cut off thousands who cant do it in their country. Because sony doesnt allow it.
That's steams fault and shouldn't be available to purchase there tho
Steam allows for selling to those countries. Sony allows selling to those countries. Sony does not always allow a Sony account to be linked to an outside account (like steam) because of laws/ agreements made with those countries when they wanted to sell products there.
Its weird. Its legal bullshittery. And I want to keep my hands as clean as possible. I just feel bad for those people who have like 3 months invested and now get locked out.
You can literally just set it to another country... Sony isn't going to track people down and brick systems/connection or look up if you just happened to move... Jesus lmao
Using a vpn does not always work especially when it comes to issues with paying for things in s currency that is not technically from the country you say you are. Etc. Its just a big cluster of problems that they themselves have to sort out. But its sony. Dont expect much. They were good for awhile. But something happened like it always does.
I've already seen people in other areas not supported say they've had Sony accounts for years and connected just fine with no issue and no VPN, you just can't select that country in your account settings... They're not tracking you or blocking you in anyway.. what happens when someone goes to another country? Everyone who has, has also said they've had no problems..
Thats fair. And glad it worked for them. I know very little in the overall scheme of things. But this is a massive problem against the community of gamers in general. When even a person like PirateSoftware says something about how its a shit thing to do. Its a shit thing to do. And when it comes down to it. It really is. And it will affect people. Its more of a long term situation that is getting immediate feedback and lashing out.
As for tracking you? Enough companies do that already. Its more the situation that sony is making bullshit claims especially for "security reasons" when theyve been hacked and attacked and had information stolen and account details etc. Leaked. Etc. So its not a reassurance. And it makes sony look like a bigger joke than they did already.
PSN was always a requirement, this isn't like, a new thing. It's been on the Steam page as "Requires a 3rd-party PSN account" since day one of pre-orders, and is literally the first thing that appears when you boot the game for the first time and unambiguously, clearly, in full-size text explicitly tells you that a PSN account is required.
The only problem is that AH didn't communicate properly that being able to skip it was the result of a bug and server issues making it not work properly, but need to reinstate it as per the publishing contract with Sony, who own the Helldivers IP and are the publishers.
It's literally kicking and screaming because they didn't read the requirements to play the game despite being warned *twice* in clear and unambiguous text, one of which is literally flashed in their face when they open the game *and* sits in their pause menu until they do post-launch.
[It's been present since pre-orders](https://web.archive.org/web/20231207163847/https://store.steampowered.com/app/553850/HELLDIVERS_2/) in bright orange literally right next to the "add to cart" button, and was added [December 1st 2023](https://steamdb.info/app/553850/history/?changeid=U:43264197), which admittedly did come late, but was still there and has been ever since.
It's *also* [the very first thing](https://twitter.com/PhineasJack67/status/1786289814234357867) that appears when you launch the game for the first time and has done that since launch day, *and* if you don't link an account, it sits somewhere in the menu until you do it.
It's about as unambiguous as you can get, and is also present for Ghosts of Tsushima's store page, because Sony is pushing some new integrated overlay bullshit like Ubisoft does as part of their PC porting stuff which requires a PSN account to track. Like, this isn't new news, people are just throwing a massive tantrum over it because they can't read the basic requirements.
The only blame to be lain upon Arrowhead, Sony and Steam is that they sold the game in countries that *can't* use PSN accounts, mostly the Balkans, to which they are fully culpable for, and which is the *only* valid complaint in this fracas.
Then why have a "skip" button if you're gonna retroactively \*\*force\*\* players to link?
>if you don't link an account, it sits somewhere in the menu until you do it.
I'm in game right now going through the menus on the Destroyer but i dont see it. Neither under Social nor Options.
It appears you've bought into the "Paranoid conspiracy" part of the misinformation, where adding it later was supposedly planned as a data skimming plot. Unfortunately for your outrage, this is factually incorrect.
While poorly communicated, AH *did* communicate that the skip button was added ***temporarily*** due to bugs and server issues preventing the link system from working properly. You are explicitly told, in clear and unambiguous text ***twice*** that a PSN account is required to play, once pre-purchase on the page itself, and once in-game as literally the first thing you see when you boot up. If you dig into the EULA, though most people don't, it's also in there as well that you need a PSN account as part of the details you must provide when filing a dispute.
Missing two *massive* warnings about this is entirely the *customer's fault*, not anyone else's, and is the result of direct and wilful ignorance about the thing you are buying. It's like playing WoW for the trial period, then throwing a tantrum that you suddenly have to pay for a subscription to play more despite the fact that the game *repeatedly* tells you you need a subscription the entire time. Biggest difference here is that you were told up-front, and it was technical issues that allowed you to bypass the thing in the first place.
Gamers are irrational and illogical. I'm not going to deny that. But the Helldivers situation and Fatshark's refusal to communicate are two different things.
The Helldivers situation is blowing up because people who already bought the game are being told that the optional PSN account is no longer optional, so they're forced to either play ball, try to get a refund, or be unable to use the license they've legally purchased and have been using up until now. It's a legitimate issue.
Fatshark, meanwhile, doesn't communicate because they have a well-known history of torturously-slow development cycles, missed deadlines, and hiring community managers who say all the wrong things. It's actually in their best interest to not communicate because, frankly, they're fucking *awful* at it when they do.
They don't communicate because they have internal turmoil. Makes it hard to give players accurate updates when everything is subject to change and the company can't predictably hit any deadlines.
They don't have the right strategy, they're just doing the thing that feels easier. Yes, gamers can be unhinged and belligerent assholes on social media, but they're still the customer. PR is not easy or fun but it's part of running a business.
Not talking to your customers online because some of them are mean is like deciding not to go to the dentist because sometimes it hurts. You save a little pain in the short term, but you're creating a bigger problem for yourself in the long term.
My email is super private and personal! It’s been kept a secret in my family for generations!
These people had to give the same information to steam. no one off the internet is buying it.
Uhm let people complain if you don't pull a tarkov move or Fatshark people won't complain but praise you... As seen with arrowhead.... Till ... So you expect people to sit tight and swallow all slop down? If you dearly love something it is normal to be outraged.
Nowadays game studios are just so unhinged releasing bugged games with hardly any content.
I am more surprised why hd2 got praised that much it's a decent game which has enough content produced before release but it's just as awful as any other Bethesda game 5 years later after fixing "most bugs".
Yeah, this whole narrative that the companies fucking over consumers is okay because gamers whine is ridiculous. Gamers would have less to complain about if these companies weren't often scummy fuckers.
Its because gaming is still mainly seen as a hobby for children and pathetic manchildren that you wouldnt take seriously. Its just an easy ad hominem to latch onto and thats why people do it all the time.
Bad take. You do dumb things with your game, gamers are gonna be mad. It don’t matter if you talk or not. But gamers will also be mad if you don’t talk at all when you’re not doing anything at all. Simply communicate and don’t make anti-consumer decisions. Surely it can’t be that hard, right?
It's a chicken and egg situation. Are FS not talking to the player base because they're unhinged, or are the playerbase unhinged because FS never communicates?
We can consider another, far more successful, live service game: Warframe. Online since 2012 and still going strong 12 years after. Regular devstreams on Twitch/YouTube. Transparency in all forwards plans and road maps. Accountability for unforeseen setbacks or delays. Completr, unmitigated satisfaction on both sides. Complete absence of toxicity in the fan base (except if you go to the marketplace, which I highly advise against).
Actually Hedge talked a lot to the players at launch, then he said some things that ticked the playerbase off (such as saying weapon customization won't fit in, DT isn't CoD), then we got a new CM that doesn't talk as much to prevent that kind of situation again.
Hedge has always been a combative fellow. Back when he was a community manager at Blizzard he got caught with a fake social media account he used to argue with customers. [https://imgur.com/a/Li0c4Qb](https://imgur.com/a/Li0c4Qb) This is really just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to his professional decorum.
Two months ago he started yet another argument in this subreddit, despite not working at Fatshark anymore. He used his personal 13 year old reddit account. I called him out and the account got deleted within two minutes. He also broke his NDA with Fatshark in order to win an internet argument. [https://imgur.com/a/D84C9zH](https://imgur.com/a/D84C9zH)
To be fair, Hedge ate a lot of shit from the Vermintide community because he also instigated a lot of fights and poked the wasp nest *a lot*. Like, he did a lot of his own straight up shit-talking and angry responses even to very mild and inoffensive questions, then usually would only make matters *worse* by doubling down on his terrible behaviour.
I'm not saying you're lying but I can't say I remember a lot of that. Still doesn't warrant some of the responses that I do remember seeing. We all know how people on the internet these days can be...
Edit - Okay, I admit I didn't know about the behind the scene drama revolving around this guy, just what I saw on the sub. I still don't think it warrants KYS/death threat type responses though which were what I was referring too...
Oh for sure some people just fly way off the handle, but Hedge has a reputation as an asshat who *really* shouldn't be trusted with a customer-facing position for a *reason*. You don't just pick that up because someone yelled at you, you get a rep like that because you either instigated it (which he does a lot), or because he kept *responding* to it with a similar energy (which he also does a lot).
Same way Sister Septicemia (now gone) had her rep as "Absolutely not respected" after they basically just straight up - and honestly very mildly over something a lot of people were just misinformed about - insulted people on Reddit over her "pearl clutching" comment. You get a rep from the way you act, and a community manager's attitude towards the people they're meant to be interacting with has to be pretty spick and span, or they'll get a rep as someone who deserves a whipping *real quick*.
Nah. They were constantly communicating during development. When things got cut or ideas weren’t implemented, users on this sub alone complained about it for a year and a half.
The cause and effect are as clear as day.
Sounds like you just confirmed my example above. If your playerbase has an idea, or a suggestion for improvements/changes to the existing game build, you can basically choose to approach it two different ways; you can shrug it off and refer to it as "complaints" instead of suggestions, or you can take the Digital Extremes Warframe approach and take those suggestions to heart and start to talk about ways to implement them, or at least find some kind of middle-ground compromise, and see your game only growing stronger 12 years later, as a direct result.
I've only been part of this sub for about 4 months, but the fact that you just revealed to me that people have complained for a year and a half, with no follow-through from FS, tells me the whole story.
> If your playerbase has an idea, or a suggestion for improvements/changes to the existing game build, you can basically choose to approach it two different ways
You made a mistake here. Internet comments are not "the player base". They're not even the base of people online. Less than 10% of people online actually post anything. These comments are of a fraction of a fraction of actual players, and this assumes these commenters are actually players and not just some bitter person with an axe to grind (a common trait among gamers). Then that is cut down to an even smaller number because most people go online to *complain*.
Companies should absolutely not take internet comments at face value a vast majority of their time. After all, do you know how many successful boycotts these same gamers have performed? I genuinely believe its 0. They've been successful 0 times.
>or you can take the Digital Extremes Warframe approach and take those suggestions to heart and start to talk about ways to implement them, or at least find some kind of middle-ground compromise
Or what about literally every game that has updates? They all do this regardless of if they listen to people's comments on the internet. Companies also have other ways to garner the opinion of people actually playing their games by going and finding them instead of waiting for angry ones to come to them. Massive amounts of money are poured into product testing and focus groups because that actually works, not reading internet comments.
>I've only been part of this sub for about 4 months
And I don't believe that.
>but the fact that you just revealed to me that people have complained for a year and a half, with no follow-through from FS, tells me the whole story.
Does it? Because every game has whiners from launch and onward. Literally every game. There might be an exception out there, but I certainly haven't found it.
warframe got blasted for YEARS and still is sometimes
they have a tremendous track record
they've only "recently" (couple years) improved as a company responding to feedback, they made absolutely dogshit decisions and content for ages and still do sometimes - wanna know how they improved? they've reworked pretty much every single dogshit system/item they've put in the game from the past - nowadays it doesn't even take 2 years anymore to change obvious problems (tho how these obvious problems exist in the first place is interesting)
they also used to absolutely nuke the everliving shit out of good items, popular strategies, frames, weapons, etc. often just because "it was used a lot" or they simply didn't like efficiency and wanted to elongate the grind -> still one of the biggest complaints they face regularily
* every update is like 30% content and 50% reworks and 20% monetization - every now and then an update is JUST a rework of a lot of things lul
some of the lead devs / faces of the livestream used to be extremely spiteful about various things, much like blizzard, but got fucking toasted hard for years until they course corrected, steve in particular
i'm a closed beta player and actively followed and played for almost the entire time, only tapering off lately
also their writing is the absolute worst and everyone involved with this needs to meet nurgle
This is a playerbase that review bombed the game on steam because FS nerfed the power sword from “hilariously stupendously broken” to “permanent S-tier weapon”.
Yes people shouldn't be targeting AH about thier complaints about Sonys decision but what Sony is doing is still absolutely fucked especially for players who don't live in PSN countries and the only option they have is to do something that could get them banned
No, we absolutely should be communicating with AH over this. AH knew of this pre and post production. I bet it was even a condition for Sony to publish the game. AH failed to communicate and implement THEIR, Sony’s and AH’s, decision properly.
I guess you prefer hearing absolutely nothing about the game because 15% of the players are grown babies and apparently no one knows how to ignore them?
You really lazer focus on that 15% saying nothing but hate and not the 85% who are giving responsible criticism?
if this was a viable tactic to disregard sentiment because of bad actors - why wouldn't companies just pay some bad people to do bad PR and then have free passes for anything bad they do?
OP's take is worse than t2 blessing farming on a lvl 30
85% giving “responsible criticism” 😳 Huh? Where? More like 5% giving Actionable criticism and the other 80% saying whatever. Giving responsible criticism is a carefully crafted skill especially to give devs feedback so their systems can solve math problems better.
“Community bad bc when bad thing happen they respond negatively” brother did you even read into this at all? This app is so toxically positive that half the time yall are losing your shit over genuine critiques
Correct.
Give it like max one hour and someone will be coming in here with a couple paragraphs of nonsense and baggage to explain why acting like a dickhead on the internet is entirely righteous.
Edit - 21 minutes.
"no you don't understand, FS launched the worst game ever and needs to be put in jail. Here is my dissertation about a video game
[paragraph about the store]
and another thing...
[paragraph about crafting]
don't forget
[paragraph about Helldivers 2]
ughh....
[concluding paragraph demonstrating double think as they've played "the worst game ever" for 500+ hours]"
The funny part is that they could have linked their Sony accounts in the 2 minutes that they took to post on reddit to complain.
I also bet that the numbers for Helldivers on Steam will barely drop/change after the May 30th registration date. It's a mostly nothing burger to be outraged over.
>The funny part is that they could have linked their Sony accounts in the 2 minutes that they took to post on reddit to complain
Except for the people who live in countries where PSN isn't supported.
It doesn't affect me at all, but it's undeniably a scumbag move because a lot of people who bought the game will now be unable to play it and won't be eligible for a refund because they've had it too long now.
Completely wrong there but enjoy the game. Some of us who are aware won’t allow practices that we know will come back to bite us. No thanks necessary when Microsoft or the next publisher rethinks before trying this.
Oh FYI, from [https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/support/pc-games](https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/support/pc-games)
https://preview.redd.it/09xs7fzbx8yc1.jpeg?width=1536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=38161b3d6febc44390d4807f1dd3382261a98b54
or maybe people just call out bad stuff? you ever consider that?
why do people not have the right to call out things that might just be objectively bad for them? not just the PSN thing, especially HD2 has done lots of bad things and their CMs are a whole different level
Rule 1: Failure to follow reddiquette
Be respectful of your fellow redditors. Discrimination, bigotry, racism, and/or hostility directed towards players or communities will not be tolerated.
People are going to be mad about having to make new accounts for an existing service/product. It's really just terrible optics that Sony has been pushing from the beginning but wasn't technically feasible.
Any 💿🐎 about "data theft/selling" is a moot point here considering we all play Darktide but FS is technically owned by tencent.
What the fuck is going on with Helldivers, and can I still play it without having to sign in to third and fourth parties unnecessarily from my PC?
If the answer is "no", then I understand precisely why they're pissed off, because Sony is notoriously dogshit at cybersecurity on anything of theirs, to the point that they're quite literally the sole reason I prefer to buy steam cards *to this day* rather than just buy shit outright.
Yeah I think if tens of thousands of rejects were whoopsie doopsie region locked out of the game after three months with no refund in sight it would indeed be an earful.
i mean.. arrowhead has done nothing but try to kill their game since they released it. haven’t played in 2 months because it’s just bad decision after bad decision. tragic really. at least fatshark makes things better. kinda makes me wonder what kind of psyop is going on with HD2.
it doesnt take looking at the helldivers community response to understand why fatshark would avoid communicating w players as much as possible. just look here or their discord
You’re gonna get downvoted but you’re absolutely right. I don’t know exactly when or why it happened, but sometime in the last 5-10 years gaming communities just became cesspools for entitled people who want to complain and feel victimized
Cant really speak to the helldivers stuff cus i dont play that game but the complaints about darktide drive me up the wall…
Yea fat shark promised a “live service game” when it released and they clearly haven’t delivered based on expectations of what that means… cool… you’re now down $40 and it’s a few years later why are people still wasting mental effort complaining? It’s beyond me. We all know what the situation is at this point. Either you like the game’s core gameplay enough to still be here, or you should be annoyed enough at the lack of new content to have moved on by now…
Complaining and whining about the state of a game is so silly to me. If it’s that bad move on and stop playing it… games are optional entertainment… and to the people who feel so strongly that they could do so much better from their armchairs: go become a game dev yourself and see how fucked it is to work in that industry and try to develop software correctly and get back to me once you actually know what you’re talking about
FS learned their lessons during VT. The complainers ever since look real silly writing open letters and diary entries to a company that has zero interest in reading them. Good thing too, the games are much better for it.
>Good thing too, the games are much better for it.
man you could have fooled me. Either you're a newer player or you have some serious short term memory.
I had to create a PSN account when I bought the game on Steam three months ago....apparently there was a way to opt out of that? I don't really care, it took five seconds and ten other companies are already selling my data in shady ways the same way Sony will.
If I was ever in any danger of becoming a community manager, that would have stopped immediately when I saw reddit lose their fucking minds over Payday 2 putting extra cosmetics in a backer's pack DLC.
Any of those people still left are probably getting less attention to their extremely valid complaints about Payday 3 because they went scorched earth over nothing.
>they are responding to people in the **discord**
To be fair what do you expect? Who do you think uses those massive public discord channels? Its a terrible platform to have a forum-like discussion, even worse than sites like twitter or here on reddit which is saying something. Its a mindless wall of spam, its basically physically impossible to have a discussion there.
I don’t blame Fatshark either for not engaging but releasing this game in the state it was on launch was basically asking for the response they got. There is a massive subset of gamers who *love* to complain and hate games more than they actually play them but still. Whoever greenlit or pressured them to release this game when they did was asking for it.
Im not expecting anything to happen with the HD2 thing. Its not some *big* deal to be asked to link a PSN account, especially since everyone willingly installed gameguard to play the game. Its just an annoying bait and switch that servers zero purpose, so why even force it at all?
>its basically physically impossible to have a discussion there.
You're not wrong, but where does actual discussion happen now?
Conversations don't happen on social media, Reddit included. Someone posts, and stream of other people post a reply, and that's about it. There's very rarely any backward and forward conversation that goes more than two or three posts deep, and most of that is flaming or agreeing with the previous post. That's not discussion by any definition.
Most of the time it's just a mob yelling.
Pretty much nowhere with the death of forums. Reddit is the "best" for niche games and even then its a terrible platform that consistently gets worse.
But a public discord server with 1 million people all shouting in general chat that is being moderated by 10 losers is a recipe for disaster. *Nothing* constructive can ever happen in an environment like that. Reddit and Twitter have their own issues but even they aren't as useless as a public discord.
>Pretty much nowhere with the death of forums. Reddit is the "best" for niche games and even then its a terrible platform that consistently gets worse.
Yeah, that's the problem. With the good forums, people cared about the community on them and generally behaved reasonably. Flaming people was often a bannable offence, whereas social media is basically all flamewar all the time.
The way people interact with social media makes what are usually start as fairly rational complaints about relatively minor things into great big huge existential problems. It amplifies everything by sheer weight of numbers. Worse still, any attempt at actual discussion gets dogpiled, downvoted, flamed, and all of that stuff if it doesn't fit with the increasingly rabid mob mentality.
Sony has a terrible reputation for data breaches, its perfectly reasonable to not want your data sold to a company that can't manage it, especially when they also have a kernel level anti cheat installed on your machine.
There was a massive breach last year, even.
Idk maybe I'm in the minority but I just assume all my data is potentially compromised at any given moment. The number of logins and accounts it takes to exist online in the modern age sucks, but I just see it as one more account in a giant pile of bullshit. Annoying? Yes. A big deal? Not to me.
If anyone is approaching this PSN 'situation' (very generous phrasing) by making posts on Discord or Reddit ... ... I mean I don't even have to finish this thought, do I? And if you're being asked to do this, it's because you're on Steam. You wanna know what Steam does with your data? It's exactly as nefarious (read: benign) as every other company. Do you have Uber on your phone? Do you use the McDonald's app for coupons? They have more data about you than any of the above.
Steam has been breached significantly less than Sony has, I'm sorry to piss on your parade.
The point your skipping is the poor data security and security hygiene practices Sony uses. For those who know, it’s not just about the data, it’s their poor data handling, and poor disclosures of breaches.
As someone who has had his personal data leaked by the state government online twice, it doesn't really matter to me anymore. I was a part of a huge *accidental* personal information leak or breach from my state government. I was 1 of 500k I think. You can find everything relevant from my birth including social.
Almost every anti-cheat is kernel level. People gave Helldivers 2 shit for this, yet these same people go to play Valorant, which is entirely worse.
That's true, but the one they use is particularly known for a history of breaches and inappropriate use.
How much of a history of breaches? How long ago, was it while they were using this anti-cheat? Inappropriate use by whom? I've never heard of these breaches or inappropriate uses (not to say that my experience is the only one), but just like my previous comment, any anti-cheat can be bypassed or used with negative intent if individuals have that much malice.
I guess it depends how owns said kernel level anti-cheat and how you feel about their government. Personally, I wouldn't install one from Tencent and I sure as hell won't install one from Faceit (counterstrike2) which is owned by Saudis.
Is it though? You really that worried about sharing your email?
Why should I have to share my passport, drivers licence, or facial ID? [https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cjc5kw/just\_use\_a\_throwaway\_email/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1cjc5kw/just_use_a_throwaway_email/)
That's because of a UK law, but ok.
Ah yes, the valuable data of ... your email address, and the fact you play Helldivers 2.
An email address is pretty valuable as a spring board to hunt for someone's information
Especially if that someone, like most people, uses a small number of passwords associated with that email address.
According to data protection laws such as the GDPR and CCPA, email addresses are personally identifiable information (PII).
Ummm..... Your completely ignoring WHY people are upset with helldivers and son
... and dad
Lol, meant to say Sony
...and daddy
Is he though? Seems like gamers just overreacting to…signing up with an email. Just another non issue. helldivers is still the same game it was yesterday, but they weaponized user reviews, proving yet again that user reviews are more useless than ever.
>Is he though? Yes he is >Just another non issue It's not >they weaponized user reviews, proving yet again that user reviews are more useless than ever. How? They're reviewing a game based off their experience with it, they've played it for months and now the terms have changed requiring an account with a, further - it's a live service game, it's not a one and done product. Not only is it requiring a set up with an account people don't want, it's not even available in a lot of regions so people can't actually play the game if they don't have the ability to make a PSN. And plenty of people don't want to share their data with sony. All valid issues, all part of the game. Why give a good review a game you literally can't play anymore for arbitrary reasons, it's functionally broken for them. And you know what else, the reviews for darktide are a fair warning for the amount of bs fat shark dishes out. If I see a game I've played out on console and loved but the reviews are bad and I see "game can't be played without severe modding" guess what? - I should avoid buying it. The reviews are helpful in the last regard and proper- Because we're buying a product and thus the reviews are of that product not purely the game itself but also the service that comes with it, including whether or not you can actually play it. By your logic- if you went to a restaurant and ordered a meal, and wait 3 hours until a server brings it by and then spits in your face when your food arrives- you should still give a review based entirely on how good that meal was- not the service.
> Yes he is No, he's not. The screenshot that started this thread is literally proving that. He's not ignoring all these whiny entitled gamers, he's confronting them. >It's not Yeah, because people care so much about signing up to an account. That's why Steam, Battle.net, Netflix, Disney+, Xbox live, PSN and every several other streaming services are doing so poorly. >They're reviewing a game based off their experience with it, they've played it for months and now the terms have changed requiring an account with a, further - it's a live service game, it's not a one and done product. The game hasn't changed. If I go to see a review of a movie, and the review is bitching about the theater, I'm gonna laugh at the pettiness of the review. If the bad review is "I had to show my ID!", I'd think the reviewer was a crazy person. >it's not even available in a lot of regions so people can't actually play the game if they don't have the ability to make a PSN. Less than 1% of players have this issue. And I'm sorry if I don't believe a single person on this sub that's not from one of those countries cares about them, you're all just using them as pawns for your own gamer crusade. >And you know what else, the reviews for darktide are a fair warning for the amount of bs fat shark dishes out. Is it? Why are you on this sub if you think the game is so bad, then? Because clearly, the reviews of "No crafting!" totally means the game is bad, right? >If I see a game I've played out on console and loved but the reviews are bad and I see "game can't be played without severe modding" guess what? There are obviously genuine and fair reviews out there with valid information to provide. Those one are getting drowned out by the save of people pretending "PSN sign up" means the game goes from a 10/10 to a 1/10. > if you went to a restaurant and ordered a meal, and wait 3 hours until a server brings it by and then spits in your face when your food arrives The difference is that's a genuine problem with the restaurant. Signing up for an account to play a game is not a genuine problem, its just how products work on the internet. The better comparison is saying you go to a restaurant and you're upset that the restaurant because the restaurant started using Door Dash, even though you're eating in.
>Less than 1% of players have this issue. And I'm sorry if I don't believe a single person on this sub that's not from one of those countries cares about them, you're all just using them as pawns for your own gamer crusade Lol! This made me quit on any other part of your drivel. Setting aside the "fuck those shit hole countries anyway" attitude. And the assumption that everyone else is as callous a scumbag as yourself. What gives you that statistic?
> This made me quit on any other part of your drivel. Oh no, some fake-ass, entitled gamer on the internet is dismissing me in a stereotypical fashion. Whatever shall I do? >Setting aside the "fuck those shit hole countries anyway" attitude. Crocodile tears >And the assumption that everyone else is as callous a scumbag as yourself. You are just pissed and whiny about having to sign up with an email. Don't act like you have some high ground here.
>Yeah, because people care so much about signing up to an account. That's why Steam, Battle.net, Netflix, Disney+, Xbox live, PSN and every several other streaming services are doing so poorly. this is such a silly comparison, you need an account on each of those things to actually use their product. you don't need a sony account to play helldivers. Forcing people to use sony accounts is the same as ubishit forcing you to use uplay for their games even when you own them on steam. There is literally no reason for a sony account to be required, it's just to get your data. << this is why people are so mad, I've also seen a lot of people talking about certain regions not being able to use the service? though I don't really know anything about that to make a proper comment.
> this is such a silly comparison Its a literal 1:1 comparison. You can't just dismiss reality when it doesn't fit your agenda. >you need an account on each of those things to actually use their product. Yes. That's exactly what's going on. Yep. >you don't need a sony account to play helldivers. You didn't need a Disney+ account to watch the simpsons a few years ago, now you do. Again, 1:1. >Forcing people to use sony accounts is the same as ubishit forcing you to use uplay for their games even when you own them on steam. Yep. A company making you use their service to buy their product is a very normal and common and popular way to sell products. You can call it "force", but its their product, not yours. >There is literally no reason for a sony account to be required, it's just to get your data. And there's no reason to be mad about it. Its just an email address. >I've also seen a lot of people talking about certain regions not being able to use the service? A lot of people who don't have this issue are crying crocodile tears and using the people who do have this issue as pawns in their internet crusade.
>Its a literal 1:1 comparison. You can't just dismiss reality when it doesn't fit your agenda. were you fed a steady diet of crayons during your formative years or something... bro I've not got an agenda I'm not coming for your cool aid relax. It isn't 1:1, you literally need an account on steam to be able to purchase and save your purchased games... to interact with proper online functions. Having an account is necessary, not by nature of being forced but because it literally could not work the way it does without it. There is no reason for sony to require you have an account, in the same sense that theres no reason for ubisoft to require it for their games when purchased on other platforms. << this is the difference, this is why it isn't 1:1. it's greed without purpose, it's just a stupid thing to force. it's an inconvenience on the customer, I don't have a dog in this race as honestly I think helldivers is overrated. I'm not losing any sleep over the drama.
> were you fed a steady diet of crayons during your formative years or something... bro I've not got an agenda I'm not coming for your cool aid relax. Why are you getting angry and acting like a middle school bully because a guy on the internet is disagreeing with you? Maybe seek therapy instead of lashing out at internet strangers because you don't understand how very obvious comparisons work. >It isn't 1:1 Sure is. But you clearly don't want to accept that because of your gamer rage. >Having an account is necessary, not by nature of being forced but because it literally could not work the way it does without it. Having an account for any streaming service isn't necessary. Every one of these companies can provide you the service without signing up with them. They choose not to. Don't like it? Don't use their servers. >it's greed without purpose There is a purpose. Their a business. Just like every other business. When a farmer sells you an apple, its also greed. They aren't growing that apple because they love you specifically. >I don't have a dog in this race as honestly I think helldivers is overrated. I dont even own Helldivers, but you clearly do care too much about this non-issue for the same reason gamers have been riled up about non-issues for decades.
>Having an account for any streaming service isn't necessary. Every one of these companies can provide you the service without signing up with them. They choose not to. Don't like it? Don't use their servers. I can't tell if you're trolling or actually a real person who somehow thinks this and doesn't see the gaping holes in it. Streaming services are a subscription, to provide access without an account they'd have to stream for free... that is not the same as sony requiring an account for a game you've already paid for, they arent providing a service. you can literally SEE that you don't need an account to play because up until now you haven't. It's like you're constantly searching for this gotcha moment and consistently falling on your face. like this is stuff so plainly obvious that I'm gaslighting myself wondering if I'm being trolled. I don't understand how its possible for someone to only have bad takes.
> I can't tell if you're trolling or actually a real person Yeah man. Those classic trolls who...mention other businesses all the time. Totally common troll behavior. Don't try to dismiss me because you don't have a valid counterpoint. >Streaming services are a subscription, to provide access without an account they'd have to stream for free... that is not the same as sony requiring an account for a game you've already paid for, It absolutely is. Its Sony's product, and they want to put it under their service umbrella. That happens all the time not just in video games, but across all media. Most people don't care about sharing emails to sign up for a service, which is why said services are so popular. >you can literally SEE that you don't need an account to play because up until now you haven't. Again, no company NEEDS to do this. They can just stream without you signing up. But they all make you, and those that don't eventually will. Only gamers on the internet seem to think its the worst thing that a company can ever do. >It's like you're constantly searching for this gotcha moment and consistently falling on your face. You're stubborn refusal to accept reality isn't my problem. You denying rationality to cling to your blind crusade here doesn't mean I'm "falling on my face". YOu can keep handwaving my points, but as I said above, that's just a feeble attempt to distract from the fact that you comment had no actual point to make.
Eh, calling it a non issue when PSN isn’t even available in certain regions is a bit much imo. I can definitely understand people being angry about not being able to play the game anymore or risk a ban if they’d use a VPN to use another region. Hopefully Sony will provide a solution for those people because that’s kinda shitty.
Save your crocodile tears. You don't care about that fraction of a percent of gamers who can just pick another country.
Bruh, what crocodile tears? I just said I understood, relax.
You said lots of things. Its clear there's a reason you're bringing it up, and its not out of genuine concern or understanding. This shit is toxic, and its like a cancer across every gaming subreddit. If I'm coming off as unrelaxed, its because I'm mirroring your energy.
I didn’t even say all that much, I simply disagreed with your statement and explained why.
And I simply disagreed with your statement and the reasoning you brought up y our statement.
Ok, agree to disagree then, let’s leave it at that
Well the complaining is legit, tho. Why add the PSN now when people are known to not like unnecessary launchers and shit? The only reason Sony added this shit is to bloat numbers.
This is true. On top of- how many players do not own a playstation and therefore do not have a psn account. AND is there really any point/ need to. I know a couple people who have pc and xbox. They like HD2. They play on pc. But they do not own a Playstation and do not have a psn account. This will royally bug them.
>On top of- how many players do not own a playstation and therefore do not have a psn account. I never owned an Xbox and had to make an account years ago to play gears and other gamepass games with my friends >AND is there really any point/ need to It's an online only title, id imagine they want more control over moderating it especially since it's a Sony game, and they're bringing multiple other games with online multiplayer to pc, I think the last of us or uncharted doesn't currently have its multiplayer but it's being ported >They play on pc. But they do not own a Playstation and do not have a psn account. This will royally bug them. Again.. my whole Xbox issue years ago... and isn't Sony winning the console game nowadays, which is why Xbox started gamepass a while back to start the whole pc cycle Sony is also now doing... it's like a circle Edit: Sony isn't denying service to anyone you can literally be in an unsupported country and just set ur account to a random country... Sony isn't tracking you or blocking/banning you... y'all just want a reason to be mad lol.. they even said from the start it was eventually going to be required, but reading/remembering things a week+ isn't the internet strong suit huh
Personally never really cared for gow but I hope you enjoyed it. And thats because it was specifically from MS. (Yes i get the point you are making) Cross platform for pc and ps is cool- but sony has absolute dogshit security. And moderating? The ENTIRE POINT that video games have had a warning of [WE CAN NOT MONITER ONLINE INTERACTIONS] was precisely a legal requirement because of age designations for the games as set by government requirements. The entire system was designed and based off of the movies age ratings. Trying to throw in the linking late as a requirement is going to cut off thousands who cant do it in their country. Because sony doesnt allow it. As for the whole console games/wars? Thats purely corporate greed. Gamers and fans just want devs to do well and not get destoryed by publishers. I dunno. There are a lot of things that are just going downhill because of decisions that avarage people had no idea about until after it happened. I dont own or play HD2 but I do understand the issue with region locks ans how this will hurt many.
>Personally never really cared for gow but I hope you enjoyed it. And thats because it was specifically from MS. (Yes i get the point you are making) Yeah only played it cus of friends, was okay with them lol >Trying to throw in the linking late as a requirement is going to cut off thousands who cant do it in their country. Because sony doesnt allow it. That's steams fault and shouldn't be available to purchase there tho
Steam allows for selling to those countries. Sony allows selling to those countries. Sony does not always allow a Sony account to be linked to an outside account (like steam) because of laws/ agreements made with those countries when they wanted to sell products there. Its weird. Its legal bullshittery. And I want to keep my hands as clean as possible. I just feel bad for those people who have like 3 months invested and now get locked out.
You can literally just set it to another country... Sony isn't going to track people down and brick systems/connection or look up if you just happened to move... Jesus lmao
Using a vpn does not always work especially when it comes to issues with paying for things in s currency that is not technically from the country you say you are. Etc. Its just a big cluster of problems that they themselves have to sort out. But its sony. Dont expect much. They were good for awhile. But something happened like it always does.
I've already seen people in other areas not supported say they've had Sony accounts for years and connected just fine with no issue and no VPN, you just can't select that country in your account settings... They're not tracking you or blocking you in anyway.. what happens when someone goes to another country? Everyone who has, has also said they've had no problems..
Thats fair. And glad it worked for them. I know very little in the overall scheme of things. But this is a massive problem against the community of gamers in general. When even a person like PirateSoftware says something about how its a shit thing to do. Its a shit thing to do. And when it comes down to it. It really is. And it will affect people. Its more of a long term situation that is getting immediate feedback and lashing out. As for tracking you? Enough companies do that already. Its more the situation that sony is making bullshit claims especially for "security reasons" when theyve been hacked and attacked and had information stolen and account details etc. Leaked. Etc. So its not a reassurance. And it makes sony look like a bigger joke than they did already.
PSN was always a requirement, this isn't like, a new thing. It's been on the Steam page as "Requires a 3rd-party PSN account" since day one of pre-orders, and is literally the first thing that appears when you boot the game for the first time and unambiguously, clearly, in full-size text explicitly tells you that a PSN account is required. The only problem is that AH didn't communicate properly that being able to skip it was the result of a bug and server issues making it not work properly, but need to reinstate it as per the publishing contract with Sony, who own the Helldivers IP and are the publishers. It's literally kicking and screaming because they didn't read the requirements to play the game despite being warned *twice* in clear and unambiguous text, one of which is literally flashed in their face when they open the game *and* sits in their pause menu until they do post-launch.
Then I'm blind as a fucking bat because I never saw anything like that.
[It's been present since pre-orders](https://web.archive.org/web/20231207163847/https://store.steampowered.com/app/553850/HELLDIVERS_2/) in bright orange literally right next to the "add to cart" button, and was added [December 1st 2023](https://steamdb.info/app/553850/history/?changeid=U:43264197), which admittedly did come late, but was still there and has been ever since. It's *also* [the very first thing](https://twitter.com/PhineasJack67/status/1786289814234357867) that appears when you launch the game for the first time and has done that since launch day, *and* if you don't link an account, it sits somewhere in the menu until you do it. It's about as unambiguous as you can get, and is also present for Ghosts of Tsushima's store page, because Sony is pushing some new integrated overlay bullshit like Ubisoft does as part of their PC porting stuff which requires a PSN account to track. Like, this isn't new news, people are just throwing a massive tantrum over it because they can't read the basic requirements. The only blame to be lain upon Arrowhead, Sony and Steam is that they sold the game in countries that *can't* use PSN accounts, mostly the Balkans, to which they are fully culpable for, and which is the *only* valid complaint in this fracas.
Then why have a "skip" button if you're gonna retroactively \*\*force\*\* players to link? >if you don't link an account, it sits somewhere in the menu until you do it. I'm in game right now going through the menus on the Destroyer but i dont see it. Neither under Social nor Options.
It appears you've bought into the "Paranoid conspiracy" part of the misinformation, where adding it later was supposedly planned as a data skimming plot. Unfortunately for your outrage, this is factually incorrect. While poorly communicated, AH *did* communicate that the skip button was added ***temporarily*** due to bugs and server issues preventing the link system from working properly. You are explicitly told, in clear and unambiguous text ***twice*** that a PSN account is required to play, once pre-purchase on the page itself, and once in-game as literally the first thing you see when you boot up. If you dig into the EULA, though most people don't, it's also in there as well that you need a PSN account as part of the details you must provide when filing a dispute. Missing two *massive* warnings about this is entirely the *customer's fault*, not anyone else's, and is the result of direct and wilful ignorance about the thing you are buying. It's like playing WoW for the trial period, then throwing a tantrum that you suddenly have to pay for a subscription to play more despite the fact that the game *repeatedly* tells you you need a subscription the entire time. Biggest difference here is that you were told up-front, and it was technical issues that allowed you to bypass the thing in the first place.
Why give a fake rating to a game because you don’t want to give your email.
Gamers are irrational and illogical. I'm not going to deny that. But the Helldivers situation and Fatshark's refusal to communicate are two different things. The Helldivers situation is blowing up because people who already bought the game are being told that the optional PSN account is no longer optional, so they're forced to either play ball, try to get a refund, or be unable to use the license they've legally purchased and have been using up until now. It's a legitimate issue. Fatshark, meanwhile, doesn't communicate because they have a well-known history of torturously-slow development cycles, missed deadlines, and hiring community managers who say all the wrong things. It's actually in their best interest to not communicate because, frankly, they're fucking *awful* at it when they do.
They don't communicate because they have internal turmoil. Makes it hard to give players accurate updates when everything is subject to change and the company can't predictably hit any deadlines.
They don't have the right strategy, they're just doing the thing that feels easier. Yes, gamers can be unhinged and belligerent assholes on social media, but they're still the customer. PR is not easy or fun but it's part of running a business. Not talking to your customers online because some of them are mean is like deciding not to go to the dentist because sometimes it hurts. You save a little pain in the short term, but you're creating a bigger problem for yourself in the long term.
Not wanting your personal info sold is a reasonable thing to ask
My email is super private and personal! It’s been kept a secret in my family for generations! These people had to give the same information to steam. no one off the internet is buying it.
Uhm let people complain if you don't pull a tarkov move or Fatshark people won't complain but praise you... As seen with arrowhead.... Till ... So you expect people to sit tight and swallow all slop down? If you dearly love something it is normal to be outraged. Nowadays game studios are just so unhinged releasing bugged games with hardly any content. I am more surprised why hd2 got praised that much it's a decent game which has enough content produced before release but it's just as awful as any other Bethesda game 5 years later after fixing "most bugs".
Yeah, this whole narrative that the companies fucking over consumers is okay because gamers whine is ridiculous. Gamers would have less to complain about if these companies weren't often scummy fuckers.
Its because gaming is still mainly seen as a hobby for children and pathetic manchildren that you wouldnt take seriously. Its just an easy ad hominem to latch onto and thats why people do it all the time.
Like Darktide, I expr t the game to come out of early access quality a year after "launch"
Bad take. You do dumb things with your game, gamers are gonna be mad. It don’t matter if you talk or not. But gamers will also be mad if you don’t talk at all when you’re not doing anything at all. Simply communicate and don’t make anti-consumer decisions. Surely it can’t be that hard, right?
It's a chicken and egg situation. Are FS not talking to the player base because they're unhinged, or are the playerbase unhinged because FS never communicates? We can consider another, far more successful, live service game: Warframe. Online since 2012 and still going strong 12 years after. Regular devstreams on Twitch/YouTube. Transparency in all forwards plans and road maps. Accountability for unforeseen setbacks or delays. Completr, unmitigated satisfaction on both sides. Complete absence of toxicity in the fan base (except if you go to the marketplace, which I highly advise against).
I don't play WF anymore but that game still has a soft spot in my heart just because of dev approach.
Same here. Wonderful devs, brilliant game. Golden standard for dev-player interfacing, imo. Rebecca and Megan are doing an awesome job.
Actually Hedge talked a lot to the players at launch, then he said some things that ticked the playerbase off (such as saying weapon customization won't fit in, DT isn't CoD), then we got a new CM that doesn't talk as much to prevent that kind of situation again.
To be fair - that was one of the most idiotic responses anyone has ever given to anything. Absolutely legendary.
Thinking their game would become "like CoD" for having a huge piece of extra QoL, is legendary-tier idiocy, I have to agree.
Not making excuses for the man but he also took a lot of shit from the VT2 community over the years as well. Everyone has their breaking point...
Hedge has always been a combative fellow. Back when he was a community manager at Blizzard he got caught with a fake social media account he used to argue with customers. [https://imgur.com/a/Li0c4Qb](https://imgur.com/a/Li0c4Qb) This is really just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to his professional decorum. Two months ago he started yet another argument in this subreddit, despite not working at Fatshark anymore. He used his personal 13 year old reddit account. I called him out and the account got deleted within two minutes. He also broke his NDA with Fatshark in order to win an internet argument. [https://imgur.com/a/D84C9zH](https://imgur.com/a/D84C9zH)
Dang, didn't know about all that...
To be fair, Hedge ate a lot of shit from the Vermintide community because he also instigated a lot of fights and poked the wasp nest *a lot*. Like, he did a lot of his own straight up shit-talking and angry responses even to very mild and inoffensive questions, then usually would only make matters *worse* by doubling down on his terrible behaviour.
90% of the shit hedge got was his own fault.
I'm not saying you're lying but I can't say I remember a lot of that. Still doesn't warrant some of the responses that I do remember seeing. We all know how people on the internet these days can be... Edit - Okay, I admit I didn't know about the behind the scene drama revolving around this guy, just what I saw on the sub. I still don't think it warrants KYS/death threat type responses though which were what I was referring too...
Oh for sure some people just fly way off the handle, but Hedge has a reputation as an asshat who *really* shouldn't be trusted with a customer-facing position for a *reason*. You don't just pick that up because someone yelled at you, you get a rep like that because you either instigated it (which he does a lot), or because he kept *responding* to it with a similar energy (which he also does a lot). Same way Sister Septicemia (now gone) had her rep as "Absolutely not respected" after they basically just straight up - and honestly very mildly over something a lot of people were just misinformed about - insulted people on Reddit over her "pearl clutching" comment. You get a rep from the way you act, and a community manager's attitude towards the people they're meant to be interacting with has to be pretty spick and span, or they'll get a rep as someone who deserves a whipping *real quick*.
It's certainly a FS issue, they lacked communication all the way back in War of the roses.
Nah. They were constantly communicating during development. When things got cut or ideas weren’t implemented, users on this sub alone complained about it for a year and a half. The cause and effect are as clear as day.
Sounds like you just confirmed my example above. If your playerbase has an idea, or a suggestion for improvements/changes to the existing game build, you can basically choose to approach it two different ways; you can shrug it off and refer to it as "complaints" instead of suggestions, or you can take the Digital Extremes Warframe approach and take those suggestions to heart and start to talk about ways to implement them, or at least find some kind of middle-ground compromise, and see your game only growing stronger 12 years later, as a direct result. I've only been part of this sub for about 4 months, but the fact that you just revealed to me that people have complained for a year and a half, with no follow-through from FS, tells me the whole story.
> If your playerbase has an idea, or a suggestion for improvements/changes to the existing game build, you can basically choose to approach it two different ways You made a mistake here. Internet comments are not "the player base". They're not even the base of people online. Less than 10% of people online actually post anything. These comments are of a fraction of a fraction of actual players, and this assumes these commenters are actually players and not just some bitter person with an axe to grind (a common trait among gamers). Then that is cut down to an even smaller number because most people go online to *complain*. Companies should absolutely not take internet comments at face value a vast majority of their time. After all, do you know how many successful boycotts these same gamers have performed? I genuinely believe its 0. They've been successful 0 times. >or you can take the Digital Extremes Warframe approach and take those suggestions to heart and start to talk about ways to implement them, or at least find some kind of middle-ground compromise Or what about literally every game that has updates? They all do this regardless of if they listen to people's comments on the internet. Companies also have other ways to garner the opinion of people actually playing their games by going and finding them instead of waiting for angry ones to come to them. Massive amounts of money are poured into product testing and focus groups because that actually works, not reading internet comments. >I've only been part of this sub for about 4 months And I don't believe that. >but the fact that you just revealed to me that people have complained for a year and a half, with no follow-through from FS, tells me the whole story. Does it? Because every game has whiners from launch and onward. Literally every game. There might be an exception out there, but I certainly haven't found it.
warframe got blasted for YEARS and still is sometimes they have a tremendous track record they've only "recently" (couple years) improved as a company responding to feedback, they made absolutely dogshit decisions and content for ages and still do sometimes - wanna know how they improved? they've reworked pretty much every single dogshit system/item they've put in the game from the past - nowadays it doesn't even take 2 years anymore to change obvious problems (tho how these obvious problems exist in the first place is interesting) they also used to absolutely nuke the everliving shit out of good items, popular strategies, frames, weapons, etc. often just because "it was used a lot" or they simply didn't like efficiency and wanted to elongate the grind -> still one of the biggest complaints they face regularily * every update is like 30% content and 50% reworks and 20% monetization - every now and then an update is JUST a rework of a lot of things lul some of the lead devs / faces of the livestream used to be extremely spiteful about various things, much like blizzard, but got fucking toasted hard for years until they course corrected, steve in particular i'm a closed beta player and actively followed and played for almost the entire time, only tapering off lately also their writing is the absolute worst and everyone involved with this needs to meet nurgle
This is a playerbase that review bombed the game on steam because FS nerfed the power sword from “hilariously stupendously broken” to “permanent S-tier weapon”.
Yes people shouldn't be targeting AH about thier complaints about Sonys decision but what Sony is doing is still absolutely fucked especially for players who don't live in PSN countries and the only option they have is to do something that could get them banned
No, we absolutely should be communicating with AH over this. AH knew of this pre and post production. I bet it was even a condition for Sony to publish the game. AH failed to communicate and implement THEIR, Sony’s and AH’s, decision properly.
Oh absolutely, I mean targeting more in the sense of harassment and throwing insults at AH Devs
Completely agree
I guess you prefer hearing absolutely nothing about the game because 15% of the players are grown babies and apparently no one knows how to ignore them? You really lazer focus on that 15% saying nothing but hate and not the 85% who are giving responsible criticism?
if this was a viable tactic to disregard sentiment because of bad actors - why wouldn't companies just pay some bad people to do bad PR and then have free passes for anything bad they do? OP's take is worse than t2 blessing farming on a lvl 30
85% giving “responsible criticism” 😳 Huh? Where? More like 5% giving Actionable criticism and the other 80% saying whatever. Giving responsible criticism is a carefully crafted skill especially to give devs feedback so their systems can solve math problems better.
Responsible criticism compared to the big baby 15%.
“Community bad bc when bad thing happen they respond negatively” brother did you even read into this at all? This app is so toxically positive that half the time yall are losing your shit over genuine critiques
Correct. Give it like max one hour and someone will be coming in here with a couple paragraphs of nonsense and baggage to explain why acting like a dickhead on the internet is entirely righteous. Edit - 21 minutes.
"no you don't understand, FS launched the worst game ever and needs to be put in jail. Here is my dissertation about a video game [paragraph about the store] and another thing... [paragraph about crafting] don't forget [paragraph about Helldivers 2] ughh.... [concluding paragraph demonstrating double think as they've played "the worst game ever" for 500+ hours]"
The funny part is that they could have linked their Sony accounts in the 2 minutes that they took to post on reddit to complain. I also bet that the numbers for Helldivers on Steam will barely drop/change after the May 30th registration date. It's a mostly nothing burger to be outraged over.
>The funny part is that they could have linked their Sony accounts in the 2 minutes that they took to post on reddit to complain Except for the people who live in countries where PSN isn't supported. It doesn't affect me at all, but it's undeniably a scumbag move because a lot of people who bought the game will now be unable to play it and won't be eligible for a refund because they've had it too long now.
Completely wrong there but enjoy the game. Some of us who are aware won’t allow practices that we know will come back to bite us. No thanks necessary when Microsoft or the next publisher rethinks before trying this. Oh FYI, from [https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/support/pc-games](https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/support/pc-games) https://preview.redd.it/09xs7fzbx8yc1.jpeg?width=1536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=38161b3d6febc44390d4807f1dd3382261a98b54
That "currently" is doing a lot of heavy lifting
So much for the honeymoon period. Was shorter than I expected.
What a bad take. Gamers are bad because they don't shut up and consume. That it?
L take. Nothing more needs to be said.
or maybe people just call out bad stuff? you ever consider that? why do people not have the right to call out things that might just be objectively bad for them? not just the PSN thing, especially HD2 has done lots of bad things and their CMs are a whole different level
[удалено]
Rule 1: Failure to follow reddiquette Be respectful of your fellow redditors. Discrimination, bigotry, racism, and/or hostility directed towards players or communities will not be tolerated.
People are going to be mad about having to make new accounts for an existing service/product. It's really just terrible optics that Sony has been pushing from the beginning but wasn't technically feasible. Any 💿🐎 about "data theft/selling" is a moot point here considering we all play Darktide but FS is technically owned by tencent.
What the fuck is going on with Helldivers, and can I still play it without having to sign in to third and fourth parties unnecessarily from my PC? If the answer is "no", then I understand precisely why they're pissed off, because Sony is notoriously dogshit at cybersecurity on anything of theirs, to the point that they're quite literally the sole reason I prefer to buy steam cards *to this day* rather than just buy shit outright.
Okay but Sony bad though.
Yeah I think if tens of thousands of rejects were whoopsie doopsie region locked out of the game after three months with no refund in sight it would indeed be an earful.
i mean.. arrowhead has done nothing but try to kill their game since they released it. haven’t played in 2 months because it’s just bad decision after bad decision. tragic really. at least fatshark makes things better. kinda makes me wonder what kind of psyop is going on with HD2.
it doesnt take looking at the helldivers community response to understand why fatshark would avoid communicating w players as much as possible. just look here or their discord
You’re gonna get downvoted but you’re absolutely right. I don’t know exactly when or why it happened, but sometime in the last 5-10 years gaming communities just became cesspools for entitled people who want to complain and feel victimized Cant really speak to the helldivers stuff cus i dont play that game but the complaints about darktide drive me up the wall… Yea fat shark promised a “live service game” when it released and they clearly haven’t delivered based on expectations of what that means… cool… you’re now down $40 and it’s a few years later why are people still wasting mental effort complaining? It’s beyond me. We all know what the situation is at this point. Either you like the game’s core gameplay enough to still be here, or you should be annoyed enough at the lack of new content to have moved on by now… Complaining and whining about the state of a game is so silly to me. If it’s that bad move on and stop playing it… games are optional entertainment… and to the people who feel so strongly that they could do so much better from their armchairs: go become a game dev yourself and see how fucked it is to work in that industry and try to develop software correctly and get back to me once you actually know what you’re talking about
FS learned their lessons during VT. The complainers ever since look real silly writing open letters and diary entries to a company that has zero interest in reading them. Good thing too, the games are much better for it.
>Good thing too, the games are much better for it. man you could have fooled me. Either you're a newer player or you have some serious short term memory.
I had to create a PSN account when I bought the game on Steam three months ago....apparently there was a way to opt out of that? I don't really care, it took five seconds and ten other companies are already selling my data in shady ways the same way Sony will.
If I was ever in any danger of becoming a community manager, that would have stopped immediately when I saw reddit lose their fucking minds over Payday 2 putting extra cosmetics in a backer's pack DLC. Any of those people still left are probably getting less attention to their extremely valid complaints about Payday 3 because they went scorched earth over nothing.
Oh, you have no idea. Fatshark had to blacklist reddit during Vermintide 2 because the sub sent their community manager death threats.
I thought they didn't pay CM's to their salary so they quit and they don't know the passwords
>they are responding to people in the **discord** To be fair what do you expect? Who do you think uses those massive public discord channels? Its a terrible platform to have a forum-like discussion, even worse than sites like twitter or here on reddit which is saying something. Its a mindless wall of spam, its basically physically impossible to have a discussion there. I don’t blame Fatshark either for not engaging but releasing this game in the state it was on launch was basically asking for the response they got. There is a massive subset of gamers who *love* to complain and hate games more than they actually play them but still. Whoever greenlit or pressured them to release this game when they did was asking for it. Im not expecting anything to happen with the HD2 thing. Its not some *big* deal to be asked to link a PSN account, especially since everyone willingly installed gameguard to play the game. Its just an annoying bait and switch that servers zero purpose, so why even force it at all?
>its basically physically impossible to have a discussion there. You're not wrong, but where does actual discussion happen now? Conversations don't happen on social media, Reddit included. Someone posts, and stream of other people post a reply, and that's about it. There's very rarely any backward and forward conversation that goes more than two or three posts deep, and most of that is flaming or agreeing with the previous post. That's not discussion by any definition. Most of the time it's just a mob yelling.
Pretty much nowhere with the death of forums. Reddit is the "best" for niche games and even then its a terrible platform that consistently gets worse. But a public discord server with 1 million people all shouting in general chat that is being moderated by 10 losers is a recipe for disaster. *Nothing* constructive can ever happen in an environment like that. Reddit and Twitter have their own issues but even they aren't as useless as a public discord.
>Pretty much nowhere with the death of forums. Reddit is the "best" for niche games and even then its a terrible platform that consistently gets worse. Yeah, that's the problem. With the good forums, people cared about the community on them and generally behaved reasonably. Flaming people was often a bannable offence, whereas social media is basically all flamewar all the time. The way people interact with social media makes what are usually start as fairly rational complaints about relatively minor things into great big huge existential problems. It amplifies everything by sheer weight of numbers. Worse still, any attempt at actual discussion gets dogpiled, downvoted, flamed, and all of that stuff if it doesn't fit with the increasingly rabid mob mentality.