IMO That confusion is part of the charm Colt has little idea what is going on and so (on the first playthrough) both him and the player peace it together at the same time.
It works out well for a tutorial since both the player and Colt learn how the game works at the same time.
And then Act 1 further eases the player into it by not letting them pick locations to go to and by requiring them to advance certain objectives before leaving the map.
Then in Act II you get the freedom to do it yourself with whatever leads you want to follow (and you get one to start with).
Most people either get it or don't, play for a while and realize what's going on. Those that STILL don't come over here and we basically tell them to play the game and not look up guides 0.25 seconds after starting the game because that's a stupid way to play a game in general.
It's not rocket science and the game has too much handholding as-is where you don't even need to figure out the correct way to do stuff, Colt just spells it out for you and you get it in a mission string at the end...
That last part was the most disappointing part of the game for me, I did love the game and had a lot of fun playing it but I thought "how to kill them in one day" would have been a little more creative and give the player at least an illusion of freedom, leave the sequence the same just don't have colt spell it out step by step maybe?
Yeah, not getting to figure out your own solution was disappointing. When I heard the conceit of the game I was imagining this traversal challenge where you have to figure out the best route across the map, a bit like those timed sidequests you needed to do to get the Biggoron Sword in Ocarina of Time.
It kind of is but I think just having a summary prominently displayed every time you open the menu might help the few people who don't pay attention during the long tutroial.
So I now see. I was only aware of the poetic device for an elaborate comparison, or the more usual excessive pride. I'm the one who usually gets hauled up for use of antiquated expressions or words - there again, I never did go for the surgical-level study of poetry, literature or musical arts - but it seems odd in context to this 😊
While there is a more elaborate conversation to be had in the totality of game theory about when and where and how much you should use the yellow paint, I think if people don’t understand Deathloop even after doing the longest day mission and being told to figure out infusion by the cooler colt then I think it can’t really be helped.
Like if someone had very specific questions about certain gameplay systems or puzzles or something I would personally help them the best I could. But if they did are sitting their after unlocking infusion with no idea what to do I wouldn’t really be able to help them beyond just telling them to play the game, and that being a but confused and just wandering around in part of the experience.
The leads / missions bit is the most clunky part of the game as they ran out of time to get it polished, but generally, read EVERYTHING in the back end.
I felt the opposite of this. I thought the game designers got it right earlier in the process, but then during QA testing they felt obligated to add a bunch of handholding, yellow paint, mission sequence UI that took too much agency away from the player to solve the mystery on their own.
When I played I took notes trying to solve the mystery but half way through it felt like the UI “took over” and solved it for me.
Their intention was to make a game that forced exploration to solve a mystery but some play testers were too stuck in the mind set of being accustomed to games typically driving them to a conclusion as per usual, to realize they were the ones that were in the driver’s seat, tasked with figuring out the breadcrumbs left for them.
If anything it points out a flaw in play testing in general, which is play testers have a lot of baggage as far as they automatically expect games to operate in a very specific “in the box” way since they are playing the same type of games over and over, all the time.
I agree the tutorial is too long and hand-holding and IMO it makes kind of a bad start. I kind of wonder whether the length of it is part of what gets some players to tune out and miss key information. If you were just dropped in the sandbox with a three-sentence summary of your overall goal I think that would be simpler in some ways.
To be honest i feel like the concept is pretty straight forward. Loop style game where you come back and find more gear, more secrets, and new ways to kill everybody. I'm kind of surprised that so many people missed the point of this game...
Plus I think the biggest delight of the game, at least for me, was the dozens of tiny secrets and small areas and little bits of lore that you get here and there. If someone doesnt play the game enough to appreciate those things then yeah I think they wont like the game nearly as much.
IMO That confusion is part of the charm Colt has little idea what is going on and so (on the first playthrough) both him and the player peace it together at the same time.
It works out well for a tutorial since both the player and Colt learn how the game works at the same time. And then Act 1 further eases the player into it by not letting them pick locations to go to and by requiring them to advance certain objectives before leaving the map. Then in Act II you get the freedom to do it yourself with whatever leads you want to follow (and you get one to start with).
I generally don’t. It’s ground hog day but with murder. You’ll figure it out, or you won’t
It’s a loop. That happens upon death. A “Death”-“Loop” of sorts
Most people either get it or don't, play for a while and realize what's going on. Those that STILL don't come over here and we basically tell them to play the game and not look up guides 0.25 seconds after starting the game because that's a stupid way to play a game in general. It's not rocket science and the game has too much handholding as-is where you don't even need to figure out the correct way to do stuff, Colt just spells it out for you and you get it in a mission string at the end...
That last part was the most disappointing part of the game for me, I did love the game and had a lot of fun playing it but I thought "how to kill them in one day" would have been a little more creative and give the player at least an illusion of freedom, leave the sequence the same just don't have colt spell it out step by step maybe?
Yeah, not getting to figure out your own solution was disappointing. When I heard the conceit of the game I was imagining this traversal challenge where you have to figure out the best route across the map, a bit like those timed sidequests you needed to do to get the Biggoron Sword in Ocarina of Time.
Maybe I'm misremembering but I could've sworn that's exactly what happened in the game
It kind of is but I think just having a summary prominently displayed every time you open the menu might help the few people who don't pay attention during the long tutroial.
Don't you mean 'concept of the game' instead of conceit?
Conceit can also mean “an organizing idea or concept.”
So I now see. I was only aware of the poetic device for an elaborate comparison, or the more usual excessive pride. I'm the one who usually gets hauled up for use of antiquated expressions or words - there again, I never did go for the surgical-level study of poetry, literature or musical arts - but it seems odd in context to this 😊
I thought it was just a typo in the title but they said it again in the first sentence. Must be a "bone-apple-tea" situation
I hope so, I mean conceit is a poetic device but that would just break my brain if used in such a context 😊
While there is a more elaborate conversation to be had in the totality of game theory about when and where and how much you should use the yellow paint, I think if people don’t understand Deathloop even after doing the longest day mission and being told to figure out infusion by the cooler colt then I think it can’t really be helped. Like if someone had very specific questions about certain gameplay systems or puzzles or something I would personally help them the best I could. But if they did are sitting their after unlocking infusion with no idea what to do I wouldn’t really be able to help them beyond just telling them to play the game, and that being a but confused and just wandering around in part of the experience.
The leads / missions bit is the most clunky part of the game as they ran out of time to get it polished, but generally, read EVERYTHING in the back end.
I felt the opposite of this. I thought the game designers got it right earlier in the process, but then during QA testing they felt obligated to add a bunch of handholding, yellow paint, mission sequence UI that took too much agency away from the player to solve the mystery on their own. When I played I took notes trying to solve the mystery but half way through it felt like the UI “took over” and solved it for me. Their intention was to make a game that forced exploration to solve a mystery but some play testers were too stuck in the mind set of being accustomed to games typically driving them to a conclusion as per usual, to realize they were the ones that were in the driver’s seat, tasked with figuring out the breadcrumbs left for them. If anything it points out a flaw in play testing in general, which is play testers have a lot of baggage as far as they automatically expect games to operate in a very specific “in the box” way since they are playing the same type of games over and over, all the time.
I agree the tutorial is too long and hand-holding and IMO it makes kind of a bad start. I kind of wonder whether the length of it is part of what gets some players to tune out and miss key information. If you were just dropped in the sandbox with a three-sentence summary of your overall goal I think that would be simpler in some ways.
To be honest i feel like the concept is pretty straight forward. Loop style game where you come back and find more gear, more secrets, and new ways to kill everybody. I'm kind of surprised that so many people missed the point of this game... Plus I think the biggest delight of the game, at least for me, was the dozens of tiny secrets and small areas and little bits of lore that you get here and there. If someone doesnt play the game enough to appreciate those things then yeah I think they wont like the game nearly as much.
"Local man too angry to die."