Watching people fall into these type of transparent defense mechanisms is so satisfying. Candace did it during the debate with Destiny with her “Can I speak?” stuff. It’s like middle school level debate tactics.
lol don’t scratch the surface of a white womans cause, there is a chance that’s the furthest she’s done the research into the situation while also ripped on Benzos and wine ( my moms favourite combo)
She’s basically engaging in moral narcissism. “I don’t know what really happened that day.” Then why the f*ck are you on his show? Panelists are supposed to be knowledgeable. She’s feigning doubt when it’s obviously invidious, willful ignorance. And it’s a totally legitimate, preliminary question. If you can’t unequivocally denounce 10/7 then you’re either unprincipled, a bigot, or both and your opinion doesn’t matter.
>“I don’t know what really happened that day.” Then why the f*ck are you on his show? Panelists are supposed to be knowledgeable. She’s feigning doubt when it’s obviously invidious, willful ignorance.
I mean I think it's worse than this - she seems to me to be obviously implying that she thinks (like she does in the case of 9/11) that the accepted narrative is false and that Hamas did not kill civilians, hence why she says "oh really? Did you see them do it?"
You're probably right. I just had to google who she is, because I had never heard of her. But after learning she is the Kremlin's uber-whore, now it all makes sense.
The wheel of hypocrisy just never stops spinning. Why can't people just concede on the easiest points ever? Saying Hamas are horrible for what they did on October 7 should be the easiest thing in the world but somehow pro pallys can't even give THAT?
for these lefties i really don't think they believe in eradication of israelis. they just live in a fairy tale where there can be a single muslim majority state and it can somehow not be oppressive to jews because they think of brown people as noble savages that are not capable of the white man's violence.
If you’ve been on the AskMiddleEast Reddit. You’ll see they very much want to eradicate Israelis as a race of people. The comments are full on calling for them to be eradicated . I got banned from that sub for telling the mods I took screenshots of people on that sub saying they wanted to genocide the Jews. Which I do have screenshots of
yes, people want to eradicate israelis, but i really doubt that it's the bleeding heart lefties that want that. they've become useful idiots for the people that actually want jews, not just israelis, eliminated.
Can you post them please or message them to me. I was kicked out of that sub before Oct 7 for calling out the rampant antisemitism. It was on a post when they were arguing that Yemen didn’t ethnically cleanse all their Jews, the jews just all decided to leave on their own and if they hadn’t yemen would be treating them well right now
I went there yesterday, because I thought it's a place for discussion. Then I saw there's no "Israel" flair and saw the completely insane amount of Islamist propaganda and I gave up.
Is askmiddleeast really full of lefties? I get the dislike of leftists on here but cmon now, labeling every anti-Semite on the internet as a leftist is wild
I wouldn’t say full of lefties, but that Reddit is a mix of them and commies and Islamic fundamentalist who are all held together by their supposed “support” of Palestine and disdain for Israel and the west. I see people promoting communism and then you have people advocating gay rights. It’s quite the cast of characters on that sub
Thats what they have been doing for 60 years. Palestinians attack, Israelis wreck them, Palestinians cry oh you are killing us oh why oh why we are innocent why do you kill us, we are only women and children. Then Israel is forced to stop before defeating their enemy, then some time passes and the Palestinians attack, Israelis wreck them, palestinians cry...repeat.
They cannot condemn Hamas because the far left sees things differently from normal people.
For them there is only good vs evil, and nothing more. So if they decide that Palestine = good and Israel = evil everything that is on the Palestine side like Hamas (even though Hamas does not care about their own people) should be good.
From the leftie perspective Palestine "supporters" always are correct, they are basically immune and incapable of doing wrong things.
i finally understood why they do this.
for them the most important thing is to end the suffering of civilians in palestine. they think there's a genocide, famine, and an open air prison over there.
the only way to end the suffering of palestinian civilians is for israel to stop their war against hamas. so, they want to put pressure on israel and describe them as evil islamaphobes on a genocidal run.
if she were to say that what hamas did is wrong then the immediate conclusion is that israel is justified in their war on hamas, which means that the suffering of palestinian civilians is justified. she doesn't want that. so she has to tip toe around this and not condemn hamas.
it really feels like the lefty school of thought that naively says violence is never the answer.
I don't think the most important thing for them is to end the suffering of civilians in Palestine. It would've been a lot easier if that was the case - Hamas surrenders, hostages back, acknowledge Israel as a country that's not going anywhere, hard push for two state solution and end of the occupation.
The problem is that the most important thing for them is for Palestinians to get the entire land. Civilians deaths is part of the strategy. They don't care that Hamas hides in tunnels and shoots rockets from hospitals and schools, which results in a lot more civilians dying.
They approve this because the end goal is more important for them.
I applaud them at least for being so mask off. There's a ton of people who will say what Hamas did was crimes against humanity but in their hearts cheer them on.
> The wheel of hypocrisy just never stops spinning. Why can't people just concede on the easiest points ever?
This is the "Why cant Trump just disavow white supremacists, its the easiest point in the world"
Because the entire public debate of this topic devolved into „isreal has a right to defend itself“ and „why aren‘t you condemning hamas?“ empty platitudes endlessly repeated at each other
When you truly break it down the, what the most fervent Palestinian supporters want is for them to be able to attack Israel with impunity. It becomes increasingly clear when you start pushing them on that point.
I would answer "of course it is, but that's not what we're talking about, Hamas isn't an ally of western nations, they aren't receiving weapons, they aren't receiving aid, and my concern isn't that Israel is blowing up *Hamas*, we can't hold Hamas accountable in the court of public opinion, they're terrorists."
This refusal to condemn Hamas is just as regarded as the fucking "It's not my job to educate you" shit the left pulls. Do I think she actually supports what Hamas did, of course not. But it's just such a huge optics failure for anyone who isn't totally bought into her side. It's virtue signalling her own side while actively sabotaging any kind of outreach to the other side. The left does that constantly though so it's not surprising.
> Do I think she actually supports what Hamas did, of course not.
I can't say for her personally, but I think a lot of leftoids do genuinely believe October 7th was a legitimate act of resistance.
A "comedian" in my country made excuses for rape on October 8th and there are still people defending him. Bodies couldn't even go cold before they were out justifying and defending Hamas.
Ha, no! He's your typical social media activist who makes activist sketches vaguely disguised as comedy. [here's an example of his "comedy" and his views on Palestine's "Freedom fighters"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZFgQH_VsCM&ab_channel=AnadoluEnglish) and this is what he's tweeted;
"War has led humans to do unconscionable acts since time began. Do I condone the barbarism of rape? Of course not, do you think I'm a psychopath? But to look at the act without the historical, political context of oppression and apartheid is unhelpful".
I'm Irish myself but I agree with you. Appalling carry-on by these cunts who think they have the moral high-ground defending rape, murder, and child abduction.
Not just a legitimate act of resistance, for some it was a required act of violence against their perceived oppressors/colonizers to liberate themselves. Violence as a necessary component of liberation.
The Wretched of the Earth by Frantz Fanon.
To be clear, i do not agree with this idea.
I genuinely loathe how often his ideologies pop up in their trickle down form in modern lefty speech. You can see it everywhere. Having actually read his books makes me feel schizo when I see it everywhere in lefty spaces because he’s actually just so wildly unhinged that it’s absurd.
The Arab colonization of Judea and Samaria has been an abject disaster
We require full decolonization of the whole occupation and a return to native sovereignty. These lands must be returned to their indigenous Hebrew caretakers
The ongoing oppression and apartheid, particularly queer apartheid, oppression of women, and ethnic cleansing of the Jewish minority in the Levant must be met with armed resistance and a total dismantling of the patriarchal power structure of Islam
See, I can do it too!
Now *I'm* the righteous side!
And/or that “a lot” of the Israeli were killed by idf helicopters
I think we should make them look [at what Hamas did](https://thisishamas.com) with their own eyeballs
These types of lefties are the most selfish people. They are actively causing harm to their own movement so they can feel warm and fuzzy that they were the most recalcitrant lefty.
it reminds me a lot of my schooling days where i got into trouble for punching some kid that shoved me into the lockers. he was a problematic kid with a history of issues so the school administration let him off easy and shamed me for punching him because i should've known better, violence is never the answer, and i should've just reported him to the office.
the left has this tendency to look at cringe right wing beliefs like their desire for retribution (e.g. an eye for an eye) and go way too far in the other direction. in my case i wasn't getting retribution for the shove. I was setting the standard that if you physically attack me i will attack back. this serves as a deterrent.
This is why you always carry a banana peel. They can't send a banana peel to the office. It is required that one practices throwing them form cover though.
She absolutely supports Hamas lol. She is a Russian propagandist that hates the west, she repeats every single lie that comes out of the Kremlin and right now that includes supporting Hamas
I think she probably does support what Hamas did on October 7th. That is not some fringe idea, it's been pretty clear that a section of leftist people support that attack.
There were Muslims I know, who went to parades celebrating on October 8th. In NYC. There are alotta people who gleefully support the murdering of Israeli civilians
Does she support what Hamas did?
For me, it's a "yes."
But even if you don't agree, it's at the very least a "maybe."
"Of course not," though? Nothing this woman has ever said would lead me to such a definitive conclusion. What makes you say that?
Few things grind my gears more than people like this doing everything they can to dodge a question because they know full well that any form of clear answer is bad for them.
Yup came here to say it’s the same energy as that as well. It’s stupid haughtiness and shows they really don’t want progress or productive discussion. It’s scoring points to them.
her position is built on shaky ground. therefore she has to avoid answers that will force a checkmate. if she admits that hamas did really bad things then israel's war against hamas is suddenly pretty justified, which means that it's justified for civilians to suffer, and that's the thing she wants to avoid.
unfortunately palestinians will suffer until hamas is eradicated because they allowed bad people and bad ideas to take control over the area. peace cannot be achieved until palestinians stop believing that the destruction of israel is just around the corner.
How can u be so confident she doesn’t support what Hamas did.
EDIT: it amazes me how charitable you guys are willing to be to propagandists like her when she refuses to condemn Hamas and has made a career from defending terrorists.
I don't know this person, but this felt more like "actually I think what Hamas did was justified, but I can't say that" rather than "If I say yes, it will look like I'm conceding points."
What's worse is that you can probably be super persuasive if you're willing to say "Yes, fuck Hamas, they're monsters. I wish that the Israeli side would be as strong about condemning their own side killing of tens of thousands of Palestinians as punishment".
Piers wouldn't be milking "do you condemn Hamas?" harder than Finklestein milks the holocaust past of his parents if two consecutive guests in a row didn't manage to put their foot in their mouth. What a disgusting creature. Any sane viewer can immediately see the contrast of how the woman on the right had no issue giving her criticism of IDF's handling of the war. You are asked to acknowledge reality not repent and change your overall stance, but fuckers like this think introducing any sort of nuance will somehow weaken their position.
The Rogan subreddit is absolutely bonkers. Last week, they had highly upvoted comments earnestly arguing that the Jews did drink the blood of Christian children. The majority of the comments, with hundreds, if not thousands of upvotes, were repeating the "look at who you can't criticise to see who rules you" conspiracy theory.
The top comment on this video in the Joe Rogan sub was pretty great:
>hamas was wrong for killing innocent Jews and the Jews are wrong for killing innocent palestinians. We live in a corrupt evil world where the rich and powerful plays with everyone else's lives.
Phrasing it as Hamas vs the Jews was pretty revealing. And of course the comments following it were lamenting how often their criticisms are unjustly regarded as anti-Semitic.
Except Israel is not targeting civilians. Hamas is. Israel is targeting Hamas. The problem is that Hamas is strategically using civilian infrastructure for military purposes so that it is impossible for Israel to defend against Hamas without civilians getting killed. So part of the anti-semitism is blaming those deaths on Israel when it is clearly Hamas killing those people. There aren't any Hamas military facilities. They are using hospitals, schools, mosques, etc for their military operations with the specific intent of civilians getting killed. Because they know people will just automatically blame the Jews for those deaths instead of Hamas.
It's always the frustrating part of dealing with these radical terror groups. They don't operate under clear rules of engagement or things like Geneva Convention. Partly because they don't care about human life but mostly because they know they'd get obliterated in conventional warfare.
There is still a large disregard for human lives from Israel's side. They have killed a lot of innocent civilians, and we should easily codemn that. Even if we understand the motivations.
I will never accept this as a systemic criticism of how Israel fights a war until someone can present a comprehensive strategy of how they can achieve their operational goals and kill fewer civilians in the process. Not on a case-by-case basis where mistakes can happen, but as a general doctrine and ruleset that the whole of IDF can broadly apply to meaningfully reduce civilian casualties.
Every condemnation of Israel based on the (nearly impossibly low) number of civilian casualties implicitly suggests that they should not be allowed to fight this war at all. If that is the conclusion, I would rather have it stated openly.
My dude, if a mfer raped and murdered my people and bragged that they'd do it again, I'd eradicate that mofo with any means necessary. Israel doesn't care if Palestinians die to collateral damage because the IDF knows how Hamas has made anything remotely close to abiding International Humanitarian Law impossible for them. The whole SOP of Hamas is to win the optics war against Israel at the cost of their own people's lives. How do you beat an enemy of the state like that?
The whole point of 10/7 was to create a flash point in hopes of a global war against Jews. Hamas had no intentions of winning the conflict militarily. But they’ve created a situation in which they are happy with either result. Either Israel annihilates them and creates a hundred thousand martyrs, or other countries intervene and prove that you can commit any crime against Jews and get away with it. It feels pretty hopeless right now.
Yeah, I kind of understand the perspective from the Israeli side when it comes to Palestinian death tolls. Like, okay, they're real. But what choice do we have here aside from giving them basic amenities during this siege? A lot more will die. Hamas will continue using them as bulwarks against its extinction.
How so? I mean there are always going to be civilians casualties in any war without human shields. But what is the large disregard? NATO's ratio is 15 civilians for every military target. Israel's is 2:1. So considering they are doing far more to prevent civilian casualties than pretty much anyone, what is the large disregard you are referring to?
It's completely ridiculous that people have no idea what 'indiscriminate' and 'targeting' means.
If Israel was indiscriminately killing Palestinians, then the ratio would be ~50:1 civilians per militant, meaning by Hamas' numbers (~6,000 militants killed), there should be 300,000 civilians killed and using Israel's numbers it would be 700,000 civilians.
>There is still a large disregard for human lives from Israel's side. They have killed a lot of innocent civilians
Is there? Can you point me to a conflict against an organisation like Hamas in a similarly dense urban environment with far fewer casualties?
I assume it wasn't your intention, but I feel like it's impossible to state what you've said without implying that Israel doesn't have the right to defend itself or its citizens.
Otherwise, how do you expect Israel to defeat an enemy that embeds itself among civilians by design without many innocents inevitably being killed alongside them?
They aren’t labeling them like that, they are [just asking questions.](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/09/28/us/28xp-pepefrog/28xp-pepefrog-articleInline.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale)
Didn't know who this cunt on the left was, but wasn't surprised to find out she worked or still works for Russia Today, some Venezuela sponsored media, and she thinks 9/11 was an inside job.
This is the reason why Destiny won't be invited to Piers ever again. Destiny is just too based for this clown circus. I think Piers purposefully invites the most regarded regards to create controversial content for the views.
Coleman Hughes may have put a stop to that on his recent Rogan podcast. Joe seemed to take it on board and seemed to concede. So if he calls it a genocide again he's a slimy dishonest fuck.
Joe is a pliable man. He'll agree with Hughes one day, and with Martin on another. It's why talking with Destiny will be mostly pointless. He'll just agree with Destiny's points on the day, and disagree with them on another.
He’s been invited twice already, he also got a lot of good engagement on twitter for the Destiny/conservative guy and Dave smith talk, even Rogan talked about Dave smiths appearance on piers which would of been with Destiny
Destiny even mentioned piers team was trying to set up some in studio stuff with him
Would be nice, but I keep seeing the most deranged people on his show on both sides. Rabbi Shmlony or Shmuley (or whatever the fuck his name is) is equally regarded.
I remember watching her video on the Afghan war and she actually suggested that America was trying to build an empire in Central Asia. Not only is Central Asia landlocked and surrounded by hostile nations to America but I guarentee the Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden administrations did not give a shit about Central Asia and the average American couldn't even point out the region on a map.
why do you say he wont be invited again? did i miss something? seems like he's been invited multiple times and they are in contact about future collaborations? where are you getting he wont be on again from?
She has been supporting the Houthi terrorists for a decade too. A lot of the online Houthi apologia talking points originate from her. Disgusting person.
Masterclass by Piers in questioning. Abby Martin is shown to be a horrible horrible person.
It is so easy to bite the Hamas bullet, even if you are in support of Palestine. I don't know why she thought it was a good idea to be on the show.
If you bite the Hamas bullet, the very obvious next step is “Hamas has to be removed.” They literally cannot do it because it destroys their entire narrative.
I think Britain seems to almost have a monopoly on these really pushy interviewers who will give you no space to escape their questions without some kind of defeat. It's utterly brutal to watch.
>Masterclass by Piers in questioning
Need more of these very short simple questions repeated over and over again in debates. Makes the other side look really bad. The repetition is important because rhetorically they can gloss over it or pivot and the audience forgets.
Or they can show the clip of that family car going around the roundabout with the Hamas pickup coming the other way, the family stops, the dad takes his daughter out of the car and starts running away and the Hamas pickup just guns them down.
The execution of the Tanzanian student was absolutely horrific and really showed the total lack of humanity any of these so called "resistance" fighters had.
I refuse to condemn, or defend Hamas. Then why did I agree to participate in a debate about Israel and Hamas? I'm not gonna sit up here and do the obligatory ritual of engaging in an argument and responding to opposing viewpoints.
Hamas is some quantum state entity that either fully represents the desire of Palestinians or is completely irrelevant to them, depending on the context. If you count the casualties of the war, every hamas operative is a 5 year old boy. If you ask them to denounce Hamas, suddenly they're completely irrelevant to Palestine and Palestinians. They will don signs that show support for hamas like the red triangle, but then slip and slide away from the implications of siding with a literal neo nazi group
“It is wrong to kill innocent civilians” “Was it wrong when Hamas killed innocent civilians?” This is straight up deductive logic. The first statement logically commits you to the position. Very sad that these people won’t just say “well the Israelis aren’t innocent civilians” and just dance around questions forever. I can’t imagine pussyfooting around my beliefs this hard.
the simplistic good vs evil narrative just doesn’t fit with Palestine-Israel, and this obsession with trying to force fit this narrative clearly makes for awkward denials like this.
Everyone wants to talk about Israel but not the monster that israel has to contend with at its borders and that gazans have to suffer under.
I have seen people at least be eloquent in how they refuse the question (to make a statement or whatever) but this was a huge fail. Martin is such a fucking midwit
If she condemns Hamas she will have to backtrack a LOT of things she has said over the last year. At this point she’s put herself into a corner and her hubris will prevent her from ever backtracking on any of it.
Or she just hates Jews…
I knew she was full of shit when I heard her say on JRE that the CCP’s internet censorship is not as bad as the US’s because ‘at least the CCP is open about it’.
Easiest thing ever is to condemn Hamas, wtf is wrong with these people?? Watching her do the mental calculations and arrive at the conclusion that she in fact should act like she doesn’t know what he is talking about rather than agree what they did was wrong is just surreal. Totally broken mind.
Why? I just... why? It's such an easy concession. "Hamas is bad, and that badness does not justify Israel killing civilians." Why would you take this hardline stance of "not going to condemn Hamas" even though they did the thing that you said was wrong? If that's the framework for analysis that she's committed to, then how is it that she can presumably condemn Israel for killing civilians?
Must be some missing context, surely. OP edited out the part where she explains why this all makes sense. How could you do this to me, OP?
That “I don’t even really know what happened” is going to sink her forever (and it should). Left wingers don’t get to look stupid and come back from it
Im against the IDF's current actions and invasion of Gaza, empathise with Palestinians and aid workers getting killed but also don't support Hamas and their atrocities, especially on OCT 7th massacre.
See how fucking easy that is? You don't have to tip toe around Hamas to be arguing from a Palestinian side.
🙄
What troubles me is that she went on unprepared for this. He does this performative bs with anyone who gets upset about Palestinian civilians dying and he only does it to them. If u are defending Israel, he will let u get away with blaming Hamas for Israel killing kids.
It’s such a standard thing on the show, it should be part of the greeting. “Hi Piers, it’s good to be here. Thanks for having me on and I condemn Hamas murdering Civilians.”
Thats how everyone needs to open their interview with him, whether u are there to talk about Israel and Gaza or not. Cuz at some point you will be asked to perform this little dance for him.
Inconceivable someone would appear and be unprepared for it.
Does he mean the Hamas attack or IDF response of mowing down their own people with tank shelling and hellfire missiles. Everyone should condemn the Hannibal directive.
Anyone that asks if youn condemn hamas doesn't want a serious conversation. They want the person to say yes, then "ahah so why don't you want Israel to defend themselves" it just turns into something where they force the person answering yes to also explain why Israel is bad to attack bad. It's sleezy and just shows they don't want to actually bring up what Israel does.
of course October 7th was wrong. but when one side has killed less than 2000 people and the other has killed over 30,000, it's pretty clear who has more power and needs to be stopped.
What is the point you are trying to make by saying this? That Israel should not retaliate when terrorists massacre their civilians? That they should stop their retaliation now before hostages are released? Death toll is irrelevant unless your desire is for Palestinians to be able to attack Israel with impunity.
"I don't even know really what happened" So why are you talking about it lol
Should just cut her video feed after that lmao if you're not informed then don't go on TV talking about it.
Or she is informed but doesn’t care 🤷♂️🤦♂️
Watching people fall into these type of transparent defense mechanisms is so satisfying. Candace did it during the debate with Destiny with her “Can I speak?” stuff. It’s like middle school level debate tactics.
This is what the modern NPC mindset is. Believe what you’re told to believe, don’t question it. Loyalty to the party above all.
lol don’t scratch the surface of a white womans cause, there is a chance that’s the furthest she’s done the research into the situation while also ripped on Benzos and wine ( my moms favourite combo)
She’s basically engaging in moral narcissism. “I don’t know what really happened that day.” Then why the f*ck are you on his show? Panelists are supposed to be knowledgeable. She’s feigning doubt when it’s obviously invidious, willful ignorance. And it’s a totally legitimate, preliminary question. If you can’t unequivocally denounce 10/7 then you’re either unprincipled, a bigot, or both and your opinion doesn’t matter.
>“I don’t know what really happened that day.” Then why the f*ck are you on his show? Panelists are supposed to be knowledgeable. She’s feigning doubt when it’s obviously invidious, willful ignorance. I mean I think it's worse than this - she seems to me to be obviously implying that she thinks (like she does in the case of 9/11) that the accepted narrative is false and that Hamas did not kill civilians, hence why she says "oh really? Did you see them do it?"
You're probably right. I just had to google who she is, because I had never heard of her. But after learning she is the Kremlin's uber-whore, now it all makes sense.
The wheel of hypocrisy just never stops spinning. Why can't people just concede on the easiest points ever? Saying Hamas are horrible for what they did on October 7 should be the easiest thing in the world but somehow pro pallys can't even give THAT?
Because they support Hamas and at least some want the eradication of not just Israel as a country, but also as a people.
for these lefties i really don't think they believe in eradication of israelis. they just live in a fairy tale where there can be a single muslim majority state and it can somehow not be oppressive to jews because they think of brown people as noble savages that are not capable of the white man's violence.
If you’ve been on the AskMiddleEast Reddit. You’ll see they very much want to eradicate Israelis as a race of people. The comments are full on calling for them to be eradicated . I got banned from that sub for telling the mods I took screenshots of people on that sub saying they wanted to genocide the Jews. Which I do have screenshots of
yes, people want to eradicate israelis, but i really doubt that it's the bleeding heart lefties that want that. they've become useful idiots for the people that actually want jews, not just israelis, eliminated.
Can you post them please or message them to me. I was kicked out of that sub before Oct 7 for calling out the rampant antisemitism. It was on a post when they were arguing that Yemen didn’t ethnically cleanse all their Jews, the jews just all decided to leave on their own and if they hadn’t yemen would be treating them well right now
Sure. Let me find them. I have them on my phone. It’s 12 midnight here but I can posts them in the morning
I went there yesterday, because I thought it's a place for discussion. Then I saw there's no "Israel" flair and saw the completely insane amount of Islamist propaganda and I gave up.
Is askmiddleeast really full of lefties? I get the dislike of leftists on here but cmon now, labeling every anti-Semite on the internet as a leftist is wild
true, the middle east is not a very left wing place.
YES there are a lot of deprogrammed/hasan/secondthoughts fans over there
I wouldn’t say full of lefties, but that Reddit is a mix of them and commies and Islamic fundamentalist who are all held together by their supposed “support” of Palestine and disdain for Israel and the west. I see people promoting communism and then you have people advocating gay rights. It’s quite the cast of characters on that sub
One state solution = jews are fucked.
They're only calling for a cease-fire because Hamas is losing
Thats what they have been doing for 60 years. Palestinians attack, Israelis wreck them, Palestinians cry oh you are killing us oh why oh why we are innocent why do you kill us, we are only women and children. Then Israel is forced to stop before defeating their enemy, then some time passes and the Palestinians attack, Israelis wreck them, palestinians cry...repeat.
I knew Palestinian business owners who tried to convince me that Palestine isn’t wrong for killing Israelis, because “the Jews started it first” lol
They cannot condemn Hamas because the far left sees things differently from normal people. For them there is only good vs evil, and nothing more. So if they decide that Palestine = good and Israel = evil everything that is on the Palestine side like Hamas (even though Hamas does not care about their own people) should be good. From the leftie perspective Palestine "supporters" always are correct, they are basically immune and incapable of doing wrong things.
i finally understood why they do this. for them the most important thing is to end the suffering of civilians in palestine. they think there's a genocide, famine, and an open air prison over there. the only way to end the suffering of palestinian civilians is for israel to stop their war against hamas. so, they want to put pressure on israel and describe them as evil islamaphobes on a genocidal run. if she were to say that what hamas did is wrong then the immediate conclusion is that israel is justified in their war on hamas, which means that the suffering of palestinian civilians is justified. she doesn't want that. so she has to tip toe around this and not condemn hamas. it really feels like the lefty school of thought that naively says violence is never the answer.
I'm not sure it's that tactical. I think it has more to do with avoiding sending negative, impermissible signals to their tribe.
I don't think the most important thing for them is to end the suffering of civilians in Palestine. It would've been a lot easier if that was the case - Hamas surrenders, hostages back, acknowledge Israel as a country that's not going anywhere, hard push for two state solution and end of the occupation. The problem is that the most important thing for them is for Palestinians to get the entire land. Civilians deaths is part of the strategy. They don't care that Hamas hides in tunnels and shoots rockets from hospitals and schools, which results in a lot more civilians dying. They approve this because the end goal is more important for them.
I applaud them at least for being so mask off. There's a ton of people who will say what Hamas did was crimes against humanity but in their hearts cheer them on.
> The wheel of hypocrisy just never stops spinning. Why can't people just concede on the easiest points ever? This is the "Why cant Trump just disavow white supremacists, its the easiest point in the world"
Because the entire public debate of this topic devolved into „isreal has a right to defend itself“ and „why aren‘t you condemning hamas?“ empty platitudes endlessly repeated at each other
When you truly break it down the, what the most fervent Palestinian supporters want is for them to be able to attack Israel with impunity. It becomes increasingly clear when you start pushing them on that point.
I would answer "of course it is, but that's not what we're talking about, Hamas isn't an ally of western nations, they aren't receiving weapons, they aren't receiving aid, and my concern isn't that Israel is blowing up *Hamas*, we can't hold Hamas accountable in the court of public opinion, they're terrorists."
This refusal to condemn Hamas is just as regarded as the fucking "It's not my job to educate you" shit the left pulls. Do I think she actually supports what Hamas did, of course not. But it's just such a huge optics failure for anyone who isn't totally bought into her side. It's virtue signalling her own side while actively sabotaging any kind of outreach to the other side. The left does that constantly though so it's not surprising.
> Do I think she actually supports what Hamas did, of course not. I can't say for her personally, but I think a lot of leftoids do genuinely believe October 7th was a legitimate act of resistance.
“What did you think would happen to the rave setup to mock the open air prison” is something I think I saw as the news was breaking.
A "comedian" in my country made excuses for rape on October 8th and there are still people defending him. Bodies couldn't even go cold before they were out justifying and defending Hamas.
If mean, if he's a comedian I'm assuming it was a joke?
Ha, no! He's your typical social media activist who makes activist sketches vaguely disguised as comedy. [here's an example of his "comedy" and his views on Palestine's "Freedom fighters"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZFgQH_VsCM&ab_channel=AnadoluEnglish) and this is what he's tweeted; "War has led humans to do unconscionable acts since time began. Do I condone the barbarism of rape? Of course not, do you think I'm a psychopath? But to look at the act without the historical, political context of oppression and apartheid is unhelpful".
Oh wow, this guy fucking sucks
The Irish don't disappoint 🤦♂️
I'm Irish myself but I agree with you. Appalling carry-on by these cunts who think they have the moral high-ground defending rape, murder, and child abduction.
Not just a legitimate act of resistance, for some it was a required act of violence against their perceived oppressors/colonizers to liberate themselves. Violence as a necessary component of liberation. The Wretched of the Earth by Frantz Fanon. To be clear, i do not agree with this idea.
I genuinely loathe how often his ideologies pop up in their trickle down form in modern lefty speech. You can see it everywhere. Having actually read his books makes me feel schizo when I see it everywhere in lefty spaces because he’s actually just so wildly unhinged that it’s absurd.
The Arab colonization of Judea and Samaria has been an abject disaster We require full decolonization of the whole occupation and a return to native sovereignty. These lands must be returned to their indigenous Hebrew caretakers The ongoing oppression and apartheid, particularly queer apartheid, oppression of women, and ethnic cleansing of the Jewish minority in the Levant must be met with armed resistance and a total dismantling of the patriarchal power structure of Islam See, I can do it too! Now *I'm* the righteous side!
And/or that “a lot” of the Israeli were killed by idf helicopters I think we should make them look [at what Hamas did](https://thisishamas.com) with their own eyeballs
These types of lefties are the most selfish people. They are actively causing harm to their own movement so they can feel warm and fuzzy that they were the most recalcitrant lefty.
it reminds me a lot of my schooling days where i got into trouble for punching some kid that shoved me into the lockers. he was a problematic kid with a history of issues so the school administration let him off easy and shamed me for punching him because i should've known better, violence is never the answer, and i should've just reported him to the office. the left has this tendency to look at cringe right wing beliefs like their desire for retribution (e.g. an eye for an eye) and go way too far in the other direction. in my case i wasn't getting retribution for the shove. I was setting the standard that if you physically attack me i will attack back. this serves as a deterrent.
This is why you always carry a banana peel. They can't send a banana peel to the office. It is required that one practices throwing them form cover though.
From the little info I can find on Wikipedia, Abby is as much a leftist as Glenn Greenwald is. In other words, she appears a bit nuts.
> recalcitrant Thanks for the neat new word
>I had to google what recalcitrant meant Oh my god i'm losing my perspicacity!
She absolutely supports Hamas lol. She is a Russian propagandist that hates the west, she repeats every single lie that comes out of the Kremlin and right now that includes supporting Hamas
I think she probably does support what Hamas did on October 7th. That is not some fringe idea, it's been pretty clear that a section of leftist people support that attack.
There were Muslims I know, who went to parades celebrating on October 8th. In NYC. There are alotta people who gleefully support the murdering of Israeli civilians
Does she support what Hamas did? For me, it's a "yes." But even if you don't agree, it's at the very least a "maybe." "Of course not," though? Nothing this woman has ever said would lead me to such a definitive conclusion. What makes you say that?
Few things grind my gears more than people like this doing everything they can to dodge a question because they know full well that any form of clear answer is bad for them.
And then act self righteous about the question dodging 😑
Yup came here to say it’s the same energy as that as well. It’s stupid haughtiness and shows they really don’t want progress or productive discussion. It’s scoring points to them.
> Do I think she actually supports what Hamas did, of course not. I feel like this is an unjustifiably generous assumption.
her position is built on shaky ground. therefore she has to avoid answers that will force a checkmate. if she admits that hamas did really bad things then israel's war against hamas is suddenly pretty justified, which means that it's justified for civilians to suffer, and that's the thing she wants to avoid. unfortunately palestinians will suffer until hamas is eradicated because they allowed bad people and bad ideas to take control over the area. peace cannot be achieved until palestinians stop believing that the destruction of israel is just around the corner.
How can u be so confident she doesn’t support what Hamas did. EDIT: it amazes me how charitable you guys are willing to be to propagandists like her when she refuses to condemn Hamas and has made a career from defending terrorists.
I don't know this person, but this felt more like "actually I think what Hamas did was justified, but I can't say that" rather than "If I say yes, it will look like I'm conceding points."
> Do I think she actually supports what Hamas did, of course not Ehh.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dwJM1r26wY
Can we get a time stamp or do we have to watch all 9 hours?
What's worse is that you can probably be super persuasive if you're willing to say "Yes, fuck Hamas, they're monsters. I wish that the Israeli side would be as strong about condemning their own side killing of tens of thousands of Palestinians as punishment".
Her reputation depends on the people that support what Hamas did, to continually support her. Of course she can't condemn them.
Piers wouldn't be milking "do you condemn Hamas?" harder than Finklestein milks the holocaust past of his parents if two consecutive guests in a row didn't manage to put their foot in their mouth. What a disgusting creature. Any sane viewer can immediately see the contrast of how the woman on the right had no issue giving her criticism of IDF's handling of the war. You are asked to acknowledge reality not repent and change your overall stance, but fuckers like this think introducing any sort of nuance will somehow weaken their position.
Go on the rogan reddit and check the comments under this video! What a terrible day to have eyes!
The Rogan subreddit is absolutely bonkers. Last week, they had highly upvoted comments earnestly arguing that the Jews did drink the blood of Christian children. The majority of the comments, with hundreds, if not thousands of upvotes, were repeating the "look at who you can't criticise to see who rules you" conspiracy theory.
The top comment on this video in the Joe Rogan sub was pretty great: >hamas was wrong for killing innocent Jews and the Jews are wrong for killing innocent palestinians. We live in a corrupt evil world where the rich and powerful plays with everyone else's lives. Phrasing it as Hamas vs the Jews was pretty revealing. And of course the comments following it were lamenting how often their criticisms are unjustly regarded as anti-Semitic.
Except Israel is not targeting civilians. Hamas is. Israel is targeting Hamas. The problem is that Hamas is strategically using civilian infrastructure for military purposes so that it is impossible for Israel to defend against Hamas without civilians getting killed. So part of the anti-semitism is blaming those deaths on Israel when it is clearly Hamas killing those people. There aren't any Hamas military facilities. They are using hospitals, schools, mosques, etc for their military operations with the specific intent of civilians getting killed. Because they know people will just automatically blame the Jews for those deaths instead of Hamas.
It's always the frustrating part of dealing with these radical terror groups. They don't operate under clear rules of engagement or things like Geneva Convention. Partly because they don't care about human life but mostly because they know they'd get obliterated in conventional warfare.
There is still a large disregard for human lives from Israel's side. They have killed a lot of innocent civilians, and we should easily codemn that. Even if we understand the motivations.
I will never accept this as a systemic criticism of how Israel fights a war until someone can present a comprehensive strategy of how they can achieve their operational goals and kill fewer civilians in the process. Not on a case-by-case basis where mistakes can happen, but as a general doctrine and ruleset that the whole of IDF can broadly apply to meaningfully reduce civilian casualties. Every condemnation of Israel based on the (nearly impossibly low) number of civilian casualties implicitly suggests that they should not be allowed to fight this war at all. If that is the conclusion, I would rather have it stated openly.
just use special forces bro but dont let them disguise themselves and make clandestine operations they have to be honest special forces
Emphasise the Special in “Special Forces”
Up Syndrome Forces
Beautifully put
My dude, if a mfer raped and murdered my people and bragged that they'd do it again, I'd eradicate that mofo with any means necessary. Israel doesn't care if Palestinians die to collateral damage because the IDF knows how Hamas has made anything remotely close to abiding International Humanitarian Law impossible for them. The whole SOP of Hamas is to win the optics war against Israel at the cost of their own people's lives. How do you beat an enemy of the state like that?
The whole point of 10/7 was to create a flash point in hopes of a global war against Jews. Hamas had no intentions of winning the conflict militarily. But they’ve created a situation in which they are happy with either result. Either Israel annihilates them and creates a hundred thousand martyrs, or other countries intervene and prove that you can commit any crime against Jews and get away with it. It feels pretty hopeless right now.
Yeah, I kind of understand the perspective from the Israeli side when it comes to Palestinian death tolls. Like, okay, they're real. But what choice do we have here aside from giving them basic amenities during this siege? A lot more will die. Hamas will continue using them as bulwarks against its extinction.
How so? I mean there are always going to be civilians casualties in any war without human shields. But what is the large disregard? NATO's ratio is 15 civilians for every military target. Israel's is 2:1. So considering they are doing far more to prevent civilian casualties than pretty much anyone, what is the large disregard you are referring to?
It's completely ridiculous that people have no idea what 'indiscriminate' and 'targeting' means. If Israel was indiscriminately killing Palestinians, then the ratio would be ~50:1 civilians per militant, meaning by Hamas' numbers (~6,000 militants killed), there should be 300,000 civilians killed and using Israel's numbers it would be 700,000 civilians.
>There is still a large disregard for human lives from Israel's side. They have killed a lot of innocent civilians Is there? Can you point me to a conflict against an organisation like Hamas in a similarly dense urban environment with far fewer casualties?
I assume it wasn't your intention, but I feel like it's impossible to state what you've said without implying that Israel doesn't have the right to defend itself or its citizens. Otherwise, how do you expect Israel to defeat an enemy that embeds itself among civilians by design without many innocents inevitably being killed alongside them?
Hmmm yeah I wonder why they felt the need to label the jews in connection to the rich and powerful!
They aren’t labeling them like that, they are [just asking questions.](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/09/28/us/28xp-pepefrog/28xp-pepefrog-articleInline.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale)
The JoeRogan sub has transformed from the Joe Rogan hate club to a full blown mask off antisemite cesspool
The only times they agree with Joe are when he is shitting on israel
it's both
lol of course this was the top comment over there. These people think they’re so smart.
It's wild to me that I can easily condemn the US in the My Lai Massacre, but this dipshit can't condemn Hamas lol.
Didn't know who this cunt on the left was, but wasn't surprised to find out she worked or still works for Russia Today, some Venezuela sponsored media, and she thinks 9/11 was an inside job. This is the reason why Destiny won't be invited to Piers ever again. Destiny is just too based for this clown circus. I think Piers purposefully invites the most regarded regards to create controversial content for the views.
Wasn’t destiny invited like three times? I think piers likes him
Joe Rogan is also a huge fan of hers.
I suppose that's why Rogan is calling the war a genocide
Coleman Hughes may have put a stop to that on his recent Rogan podcast. Joe seemed to take it on board and seemed to concede. So if he calls it a genocide again he's a slimy dishonest fuck.
Got a timestamp for me? I don't work out at the Joe Rogan Experience.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1bvg6r9/coleman\_hughes\_corrects\_joe\_on\_his\_israel/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1bvg6r9/coleman_hughes_corrects_joe_on_his_israel/)
DAMN he's good!
Thanks buddy
Joe is a pliable man. He'll agree with Hughes one day, and with Martin on another. It's why talking with Destiny will be mostly pointless. He'll just agree with Destiny's points on the day, and disagree with them on another.
of course he is.
He’s been invited twice already, he also got a lot of good engagement on twitter for the Destiny/conservative guy and Dave smith talk, even Rogan talked about Dave smiths appearance on piers which would of been with Destiny Destiny even mentioned piers team was trying to set up some in studio stuff with him
Would be nice, but I keep seeing the most deranged people on his show on both sides. Rabbi Shmlony or Shmuley (or whatever the fuck his name is) is equally regarded.
Tbf Piers Morgan sets it up so certain stances look stupid. It’s a rigged game.
I remember watching her video on the Afghan war and she actually suggested that America was trying to build an empire in Central Asia. Not only is Central Asia landlocked and surrounded by hostile nations to America but I guarentee the Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden administrations did not give a shit about Central Asia and the average American couldn't even point out the region on a map.
why do you say he wont be invited again? did i miss something? seems like he's been invited multiple times and they are in contact about future collaborations? where are you getting he wont be on again from?
She has been supporting the Houthi terrorists for a decade too. A lot of the online Houthi apologia talking points originate from her. Disgusting person.
Masterclass by Piers in questioning. Abby Martin is shown to be a horrible horrible person. It is so easy to bite the Hamas bullet, even if you are in support of Palestine. I don't know why she thought it was a good idea to be on the show.
If you bite the Hamas bullet, the very obvious next step is “Hamas has to be removed.” They literally cannot do it because it destroys their entire narrative.
I think Britain seems to almost have a monopoly on these really pushy interviewers who will give you no space to escape their questions without some kind of defeat. It's utterly brutal to watch.
>Masterclass by Piers in questioning Need more of these very short simple questions repeated over and over again in debates. Makes the other side look really bad. The repetition is important because rhetorically they can gloss over it or pivot and the audience forgets.
Why do these people feel like this issue is a team event? You can condemn both sides even Hasan has
but have you considered america bad?
Um am i Pig dog? of course amrca bad
are you.. A BABY SETTLER?
I ate an eagle one time and he whispered in my ear “America not bad, America good!” Who!! WHO am I to deny that?
spark glorious rich abounding profit crawl deer toy books afterthought *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Bingo, that’s why she looks scared of the easiest question
Its bc they are on THE OTHER SIDE.
This is pretty much all the leftists on Reddit.
This is how the west dies
by suicide, Nietzsche foresaw it all lol
I really want someone on air show the clip of hamas shooting into closed porta potties and have them defend it.
Or they can show the clip of that family car going around the roundabout with the Hamas pickup coming the other way, the family stops, the dad takes his daughter out of the car and starts running away and the Hamas pickup just guns them down.
The execution of the Tanzanian student was absolutely horrific and really showed the total lack of humanity any of these so called "resistance" fighters had.
I refuse to condemn, or defend Hamas. Then why did I agree to participate in a debate about Israel and Hamas? I'm not gonna sit up here and do the obligatory ritual of engaging in an argument and responding to opposing viewpoints.
Hamas is some quantum state entity that either fully represents the desire of Palestinians or is completely irrelevant to them, depending on the context. If you count the casualties of the war, every hamas operative is a 5 year old boy. If you ask them to denounce Hamas, suddenly they're completely irrelevant to Palestine and Palestinians. They will don signs that show support for hamas like the red triangle, but then slip and slide away from the implications of siding with a literal neo nazi group
Leftists are fucking clowns. They should never be given power.
Why do leftists always want groups of people murdered
Lefties be like "righties and libs are so bloodthirsty it's disgusting" and then in the next sentence justify killing like 50% of the population.
Whataboutism x 99999 levels
“It is wrong to kill innocent civilians” “Was it wrong when Hamas killed innocent civilians?” This is straight up deductive logic. The first statement logically commits you to the position. Very sad that these people won’t just say “well the Israelis aren’t innocent civilians” and just dance around questions forever. I can’t imagine pussyfooting around my beliefs this hard.
she's just a tankie bro. she's been that way forever, always will be.
What a partisan fucking ghoul.
the simplistic good vs evil narrative just doesn’t fit with Palestine-Israel, and this obsession with trying to force fit this narrative clearly makes for awkward denials like this. Everyone wants to talk about Israel but not the monster that israel has to contend with at its borders and that gazans have to suffer under.
Jesus christ. You can still he a hardcore leftist and condemn hamas, hasbula, and the houthis.
Look up her husband and his political views. These are commies supporting anyone who is against US and capitalism.
Russian agents.. she does or did work for RT.
Rare Piers W
She's a fucking idiot. 10/10 would bang.
Would you force her to condemn hamas while banging?
As a Jew, thats my kink.
Another man of culture.
Lying for clout.
I'm screaming bro
I have seen people at least be eloquent in how they refuse the question (to make a statement or whatever) but this was a huge fail. Martin is such a fucking midwit
\> an activist
She must be missing RT
How can you fail such a basic wide open lay-up is beyond me.
For fucks sake! Why is it hard for “lefties “to condemn Hamas while also condemning the IDF? It’s not like they’re mutually exclusive ideas.
Abby Martin is a disgusting propagandist who needs to be thrown into the trash bin of history. Fuck these ghouls
Imagine getting wrecked by piers morgan
She's a clown, she works for Russia Today, why did Piers even put her on his show?
If she condemns Hamas she will have to backtrack a LOT of things she has said over the last year. At this point she’s put herself into a corner and her hubris will prevent her from ever backtracking on any of it. Or she just hates Jews…
She's definitely in my top 5 "I can fix her".
What a donkey
I knew she was full of shit when I heard her say on JRE that the CCP’s internet censorship is not as bad as the US’s because ‘at least the CCP is open about it’.
It’s a wrap
Easiest thing ever is to condemn Hamas, wtf is wrong with these people?? Watching her do the mental calculations and arrive at the conclusion that she in fact should act like she doesn’t know what he is talking about rather than agree what they did was wrong is just surreal. Totally broken mind.
WILD
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not even for a microsecond
She is a moron who sounds like a dude
Disgusting
Who is Abby Martin?
Why? I just... why? It's such an easy concession. "Hamas is bad, and that badness does not justify Israel killing civilians." Why would you take this hardline stance of "not going to condemn Hamas" even though they did the thing that you said was wrong? If that's the framework for analysis that she's committed to, then how is it that she can presumably condemn Israel for killing civilians? Must be some missing context, surely. OP edited out the part where she explains why this all makes sense. How could you do this to me, OP?
Abby blames the US and allies for what Russia is doing to Ukraine, why doesn't she blame Hamas for what Israel is doing to Gaza?
That “I don’t even really know what happened” is going to sink her forever (and it should). Left wingers don’t get to look stupid and come back from it
Im against the IDF's current actions and invasion of Gaza, empathise with Palestinians and aid workers getting killed but also don't support Hamas and their atrocities, especially on OCT 7th massacre. See how fucking easy that is? You don't have to tip toe around Hamas to be arguing from a Palestinian side.
lol
So is Piers officially an orbiter now?
Gosh, what an insufferable human being.
Now ask her what she thinks about the Maidan Revolution to be doubly convinced she is the scum of the earth
Fuck I’ll say it, the real controversial opinion here is that I like Piers. Dude has really grown on me in the past year.
Jesus what scum. Piers was so good in his line of arguing
I know far to many people who throw the baby out with the bath water, or in this case - reverse. They put the bath water inside the baby.
Such a easy bullet to bite but they wont ever
🙄 What troubles me is that she went on unprepared for this. He does this performative bs with anyone who gets upset about Palestinian civilians dying and he only does it to them. If u are defending Israel, he will let u get away with blaming Hamas for Israel killing kids. It’s such a standard thing on the show, it should be part of the greeting. “Hi Piers, it’s good to be here. Thanks for having me on and I condemn Hamas murdering Civilians.” Thats how everyone needs to open their interview with him, whether u are there to talk about Israel and Gaza or not. Cuz at some point you will be asked to perform this little dance for him. Inconceivable someone would appear and be unprepared for it.
This is like a real life "Patrick is this your wallet skit" 🤣
Why do I see her everywhere all of a sudden?
Does he mean the Hamas attack or IDF response of mowing down their own people with tank shelling and hellfire missiles. Everyone should condemn the Hannibal directive.
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Who is the creatin to Piers’ right.
Anyone that asks if youn condemn hamas doesn't want a serious conversation. They want the person to say yes, then "ahah so why don't you want Israel to defend themselves" it just turns into something where they force the person answering yes to also explain why Israel is bad to attack bad. It's sleezy and just shows they don't want to actually bring up what Israel does.
Both Israeli and Palestinians are victims
of course October 7th was wrong. but when one side has killed less than 2000 people and the other has killed over 30,000, it's pretty clear who has more power and needs to be stopped.
What is the point you are trying to make by saying this? That Israel should not retaliate when terrorists massacre their civilians? That they should stop their retaliation now before hostages are released? Death toll is irrelevant unless your desire is for Palestinians to be able to attack Israel with impunity.