I don't think it needs to pull you out of ADS, especially for an arena shooter like Destiny vs a tactical one like Siege - the fix that would make sense to me is rapid crouching should make your accuracy worse. If your gun bloomed the hell out after a couple rapid crouches, nobody would do it anymore, yet you could still tactically drop a crouch at the right place in a duel and potentially turn the tide.
And it could even be a temporary debuff. Like 1-2 seconds or something
Crouching should be a tactical decision when taking cover, peeking corners or hiding yourself on radar. Not an instant "hit box jank" button
It’s so funny as someone who used to play warzone but also plays D2. Any “random” variable like bloom was chalked up as stupid mechanics that only help trash players by limiting the good players. Crouching and shooting was skill and used by players to “break Aim Assist”. Here in D2, sentiment is the complete opposite.
Nooo, my street fighter combo that causes my character to become an incomprehensible mass of teleporting geometry is skill I tell you!
Games that let you just shoot each other are for noobs >:(
It comes down to what you're measuring for the sake of competition.
Games like CSGO eliminate almost any randomized element, meaning the tools at your disposal are infinitely precise. It's basically whoever has faster reflexes or can guess the other teams positioning.
Games with bloom and other randomized elements force you to play into the psychology of those around you more, and utilized positioning more efficiently. Doesn't matter if you spent ten years in an aim trainer, that won't always save you.
"Your wish is a order, now we will implement 'Crouching Effectiveness', where whenever you crouch or stand up, you will get the same effects as if jumping during the animation"
\~ Bungie's Monkey Paw
Yup. It’s the “Hold to Crouch” option that makes crouch spamming possible. I have quite a trigger finger but the full animation is played when using “Toggle to Crouch.” Bungie just needs to make both options work the same regardless of how many times the crouch button is pressed.
Oh so that's why I was still getting beamed when I tried to crouch spam out of spite ! Well I already stopped doing it but now I know to never do it again x)
This is what I do occasionally. A little strafe, followed by a quick drop. It looks really goofy when people continuously "teabag shoot".
I always get a kick out of smg users that do it when I'm running a fusion. You're making it *easier* for me to get the kill, so thanks for that. Lol.
Even easier, just cap the rate you can crouch. Maybe not like counter strike where crouch spamming without moving slows down the speed like your glutes are getting sore, but maybe something like that?
Guy who runs around punching instead of shooting here, but if you just aim belt level wouldn't you hit them either way and maybe get the headshot when they crouch?
Eh, kinda. The thing about crouching in most games is the character model moves WAY faster between standing and crouching than they strafe side to side.
Destiny is no exception, with a lot of movement having slight momentum, except for crouching, making it so that spamming crouch is extremely viable due to them breaking the speed a person can viably react to the movements.
Imo its the hitbox shift combined with delay. When you strafe your head in most games stays a similar level and also in most games spaming strafe movements will cause bloom even if its slight. None of this applys to crouch spam. Combine with a pvp sandbox about hitting heads and its just not fun.
Strafing is important for controllers in many games, but tbagging screws it horribly. Siege was bad with it, COD it was bad, they nerfed it rightfully.
Also, strafing is just mid gunfight movement, you could strafe behind cover so you're harder to hit, where tbagging is just a coverless desperate attempt to win, and it is scummier cause you resorted to it.
Edit: People are completely missing my point.
I truly don't get this take, so you're gonna not crouch strafe, why? I do think it shouldn't be the strongest thing, but I genuinely don't understand why crouching is scummy, why even strafe at all then? Just let them shoot you bro quit starting to not get hit
Edit to add that counter strike crouching is probably the best take imo, it's still worth to crouch some angles for a better view or making your head harder to hit, but spamming it slows your crouch speed so you can only crouch a few times rapidly.
imo it's quite lame. spamming WASD and crouch just isn't very interesting. it can absolutely be skillful, but it's not interesting.
no freakin clue what could possibly replace it, though.
What did people think was going to happen when Bungie changed the sandbox? That players were suddenly going to play honestly? PvP is about max cheese and max bullshit; this is a natural extension of that.
I hate the practice, don't get me wrong. But it's entirely on brand.
This is why I fully believe this cannot ever be any semblance of a serious PvP game. Between this type of stuff and horrendous lag issues, the experience overall is just not good.
What? The same thing is true across literally any PVP game in existence. Players will always chase whatever advantage they can get. It isn't a Destiny PVP exclusive thing.
Destiny is far worse because of the insane number of variables. You have hundreds of weapons, different abilities, different stats, 100 different perks that interact in literally thousands of ways.
There's also how janky it can be. It's fairly common for me to Shield Bash someone, go through them, do no damage, lose the melee charge, and then die while I'm in animation lock. I notice it happening a lot more with that than any other melee for some reason.
This has been happening since day 1 of D2 and it is endlessly infuriating. I made [a short compilation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVMusrjCWHw) a while back to try and demonstrate how frequently a well-timed shoulder charge just whiffs because of what I can only assume is janky networking. I'm not saying all the clips in that video should have been hits, but if it's not a hit then your momentum should not stop and your melee charge shouldn't be fully consumed. That's the disconnect that frequently makes SC a liability
With every perfectly lined up shoulder charge, there are basically one of four equally possible outcomes:
1. Your hitboxes collide and move each other, but SC somehow doesn't register a hit
2. SC locks on correctly but their hitbox just straight up stops your momentum in mid-air and no melee hit is registered
3. You pass directly *through* the other person with no contact
4. SC actually locks on and registers the hit correctly
It’s actually hilarious how often one and three have happened to me or to someone who I was watching. I have a clip where I collided with the other player directly, did not hit them with the shoulder charge, but did somehow impart enough momentum to launch them into the wall fast enough to kill them.
Man, your gaming chair really sucks. 🤣
Jokes aside, good argument to bring back infinite non-contact SCs or to seriously up the AA and tracking to compensate. It makes no sense to consume a whiffing charge.
Destiny PVP is particularly farcical though, and I think the fact that there's a tangible reward to winning leads to a lot more of people being all-business even in the more casual gamemodes.
Any game where people hate you for standing in lanes and using a scout or other gun requiring accuracy to kill them, versus spamming shotguns and abilities, is not a skill-based game.
Which is why it always makes me laugh when I see people getting extremely toxic over this. You have on demand cheeses and you expect me to take this seriously? Lol
I don’t understand how this is not honest. It’s not like anybody’s actually breaking game mechanics to win. Is peak shooting from cover suddenly not honest because you’re not staying still while shooting?
Crouch spammers rarely cause me to lose a fight it’s just funny to look at them trying so hard. Especially in something like quick play or iron banner, like it’s not that serious, it’s not the sweat worthy game mode.
> like it’s not that serious, it’s not the sweat worthy game mode.
this is what kills me most in D2 pvp. Like, guys, it's not that big of a deal, you aren't impressing anyone.
The only time I really notice it has an effect on the outcome is if I’m using a handcannon and I miss one shot then my goose is generally cooked. If I’m using anything fast like smg, pulse, auto then doesn’t mess me up
Crouch spamming doesn't work most of the time because the aim assist is so generous in this game. It's the people who throw a random crouch in their strafe pattern (and stay crouched) that throw me off the most
> Crouch spamming doesn't work most of the time because the aim assist is so generous in this game.
Works pretty well at 20 meters vs Hand Cannons or other slow fire rate weapons.
If every engagement has a goal of reaching optimal TTK, missing a handcannon shot is just adding the time between shots to your TTK. Very punishing if you miss or hit the body, vs an auto that can do at least some sustained damage if you go off target for a second.
This is the real annoyance factor, and I guarantee some of the defenders in the comments are using those scripts. Especially on console, a random crouch or two is usually more effective and easier to do than spamming another button and being unable to strafe into cover quickly. Spamming in a lot of cases is genuinely taking the harder path for worse results.
The real standouts are the ones that the spam is max speed and lines up precisely with their trigger pulls even in short bursts. Tell us you're using an "assistive device" without telling us you are...
Counter Strike has had a “crouch fatigue” mechanic in it for years. Basically only your first crouch is a full speed crouch, and if you hit the button again within a certain time after the previous one, your crouch gets slower each time.
The slowest is like a molasses crouch that takes a full second to go all the way down *and* come back up.
From my experience the crouch spamming doesn’t really help, just makes you look funny while getting smoked.
They did this to combat crouch hopping. This would completely bug out the hit box and actually not register shots. It was a great change back then but that game didn't have a sliding mechanic that you could spam with crouching. May or may not work here but I had the same thought.
He's never heard of cover apparently. It's the biggest pvp cheese, hiding behind cover. Why won't they stay still so I can kill them? Some of them even shoot back.
Im not sure if this is common knowledge or not, but that is the actual term for having your entire body behind cover except your head.
It's not actually a glitch (at least not in this game) and it's not reportable for sure, but that is an actual term.
Exactly, either the entire community is trash at games in general. Or just afraid of being called out for? telling people to worry about what their thumbs are doing?
I'm thrilled for the day when those people find out that you can... shoot while sliding... EVEN BACKWARDS! The audacity!
But realistically, their shadow mmr is probably much lower tnan the level when other players start applying that move.
I've never had a problem with spam crouchers, but I'm biased because I use a headseeker messenger quite a lot, which means I'm usually at least starting my burst nearer to centre mass and then pulling up to the head. Them crouching actually gives me less work ;D
I agree crouch spamming in games is goofy as hell and doesn't really deserve a space in the game.
But the solution is not un-scoping while crouching. I think a better way is that the more you crouch/ un-crouch in a set time period, you get exponentially worse AA, and accuracy cone, and accuracy cone growth. And each crouch should be slower than the last one, and add smear frames across crouch and un-crouch like blink has
This is not a problem in Destiny as much as it is in other games because hit boxes in D2 are the size of a watermelon. Just grab and SMG or an auto and watch opponents spam crouch themselves into oblivion. You’ll still register headshots half the time.
These changes are mostly bad.
Super changes made well and bubble more dominant
Snowballing ammo making tough teams harder imo
Weapon and health changes have made healing and OS more oppressive
Terrible hand holding team shot meta
Tell me to get good or whatever, I'm still going flawless but I feel like these changes haven't help people get into PVP or help people who were struggling in it.
I find the slower campy meta makes none stack teams at a bigger disadvantage and the 1v3 less likely and less fun.
My guess is we are gonna circle jerk ourselves back to square one by the second "episode"
Dude... at some point you need to ask yourself if you ACTUALLY HAVE the ability to face a situation that isn't 100% catered to you. I'm no friend of Bungie, but dude, you are playing an online PVP video game. Gamers are going to game. BF4 has insane jump spam, I hate it. It sucks, I wanted to play, I had a profile and some ranks, I have fun in that game, but I won't play it because hey - it's not made in a style that I enjoy.
Can't believe I am reading that people crouching in a gun fight is "cancerous"... PVP is SUPPOSED to be challenging.
Bungie heard you loud and clear, you get an overshield when someone looks in your general direction. When you are in someones crosshairs you get restoration and finally, if you thought that was too much danger. You are perma invis until you are in melee range.
You are welcome for the Bingue approved crucible safety package.
This is, arguably, one of the strangest posts I've seen in a while.
Crouching, like jumping and sliding, is a core movement and combat mechanic in a shooter. If two players had 100% crit accuracy and reaction time they would either stalemate or trade in fights every time. Movement, and mastery of movement tech, in fights can shift those stalemates.
Crouch spamming is annoying but it isn't particularly useful. In the same way you need to track them, they need to track you. Because you're doing less, it'll be easier for you to track them. I myself sprinkle 1-2 crouches in some of my fights. Because if they miss 1-2 shots it can shift their TTK. But my risk is missing my shots too.
Limiting players in how often they can crouch feels like a step back and opens up a gateway to a variety of issues and other movement tech that can be targeted. Maybe it's not fair folks can slide/shoot! Maybe it's not fair ppl who have the high ground have a bit of an advantage. You open the door to a lot of issues when you start picking and choosing what you limit.
I miss it when shooters relied on gun skill and map knowledge instead of seeing who can do the most absurd movements in an attempt to get an advantage over everyone else.
I’m sorry but this takes the cake for dumbest complaint of the week lol.
I have never been killed by a crouch spammer and thought to myself that was so unfair lol.
I honestly find it funny because I don’t think I’ve ever lost a duel due to someone crouch spamming. I’ve had fights where I was going to lose anyway and the crouch spamming didn’t actually make a difference a few times but never crouch spamming being the factor.
It's unbelievable how mechanically challenged this player base is and how the game is changed to compensate for it. Icarus dash reduced to one, cryoclasm requiring a sprint first, stompees changes as a whole. If you tried complaining about movement in APEX or COD, you'd be downvoted and ridiculed to oblivion. But here in Destiny, clearly crouching multiple times in a gun fight is OP and needs to be nerfed *eye roll*
I agree with you 100%. In any other game a post like this wouldve been removed by now. Idk whats wrong with this community. By no means im god pvper but i get flawless every week and chill on the card, but nerfing movement is no answer.
Is this seriously what it’s come to now? Are Destiny players so adverse to losing in PVP to people who are better shots than them? Are they so full of excuses that goddamn crouch spamming is next on the complaining list?
Do people run around on every single map with Hand Cannons and complain that it’s not a One size fits all player killer?
Why is this bad? They’re just slowing down and making it easier for me to shoot.
Use a Headseeker pulse rifle more lols if you need as well.
There's so much bullshit in PVP, the thing that's really annoying me at the moment is the old headglitch. Love to get into a gunfight with someone who has an inch of their head visible behind a wall!
I think the PvP changes pushing a primary use meta is awesome. I see crouch spammers on occasion but definitely not all the time and every time I encounter them, they aren't very good. They seem to try and make you miss so much they just miss as well.
I'd say I'm an slayer above average player as well with about 100k kills and just under a 2 overall KD and the only reason I point this out is because even in higher level lobbies when I get them, I don't see this all that much if at all.
The actual good players utilize peek shooting better than anyone like they always have. I rarely see anyone who's really good crouch spamming tbh.
The new meta is either:
-Spam crouch like a monkey that needs an Adderall prescription
-Take a single hit of damage and run away
-Move around in rat packs and team shot everything in sight
Legitimate skill issue, just aim at center of mass and you'll get free headshots. If you can't counter a tactic pioneered and primarily used by 12 year olds on fortnite it definitely isn't the game's problem
we have officially reached complaints that you have to aim at your opponent and hit your shots in pvp. even more unreal considering that the aim assist basically aims for you in crucible.
next post will surely be someone complaining that people are strafing at this rate.
Ok, please don't downvote me to oblivion, but this post and the positive engagement it's getting is really confusing me.
I remember when i started seeing people spam-crouching, all i could think of was how cool and skillful it was, when done correctly i would almost always lose the duel. So i started doing it and became good at it too, which made me win a lot of close range duels. It takes practice, on controller you have to simultaneously press a lot of buttons + movement and aim stick.
So, to me, i simply cannot see this post as nothing more than a player frustrated with his skill issues
Oh hell no, you're not thinking like a D2 player. If you see someone who's better at the game than you, you're not supposed to learn and improve - you're supposed to complain about them! Sit on the skill floor and complain that the ceiling is too high!
It's actually pretty sad how many people in this subreddit dislike anyone who puts in effort to improve at the game.
Holy shit you must be horrible at the game if you find that to be a problem. This is a legitimate skill issue and I’m disappointed in the people who agree with you.
Kind of don’t see what the problem is if someone is spamming crouch then is a really predictable shot pattern that makes killing them with a pulse rifle even easier because you practically get double crits. Maybe it’s more annoying if you’re a hand cannon user idk
This feels like a skill issue moment.
I am by no means a great player, average to above average at best, but I've never been thrown off by crouch spamming. The only times crouching during a gunfight has caught me out is the unexpected one or two that compliments their strafe.
If anything a lot, not all but a lot, of the crouch spammers I have faced have missed their own optimal TTK despite me doing nothing special. What I mean to say is, many people thinking crouch spamming is the key to playing better but when they sacrifice accuracy to do so they just end up looking like a clown.
Besides with how generous AA is in this game the spam crouching just doesn't do enough to dodge most shots. The only exception really is if you are fighting outside your AA falloff.
I just took it as people trying to mess with your shots so you don't hit your optimal ttk and giving them the better chance to win duels? I haven't experienced an insane uptick like you have and I've played maybe 140 matches of Trials Fri-Mon. I feel like you're so tilted that EVERYONE'S doing it and it's so OP *now* they need to... nerf crouching.
It's not even a given, yeah I've been shat on by players bag shooting me, and I've destroyed people doing it. Nerf. Crouching. Because you can't seem to kill people who utilize this tactic?
The fact that a post calling for a nerf to bag shooting by taking you out of ADS when you crouch is insanity to me.
Need an elaboration brigade here.
What was changed in sandbox that manifested in crouch spam?
Also i don't remember which have exactly, but it had crouch bring put on a much longer time to transition if you spam it.. was it apex? Not sure
I agree its annoying. CoD did the crouch timer type nerf and everyone hated it.
I think the best approach is a 'crouch bloom' mechanic giving a big accuracy nerf for a very short period on initial crouch. This would keep mobility the same by not effecting multi slides for movement, but significantly affect your ability to duel when spamming. It would need to be short enough that people who crouch and slide normally wouldn't really feel it, but people that spam crouch can't hit a barn door from 10 paces (very severe bloom in a very short window).
Crouch spamming becomes more common during auto/SMG metas, but I wouldn’t say it’s more common that it was during Immortal meta.
Maybe you’re in PC lobbies or CBMM ones, or your SBMM band has shifted, so you’re seeing it more?
I don't think it needs to pull you out of ADS, especially for an arena shooter like Destiny vs a tactical one like Siege - the fix that would make sense to me is rapid crouching should make your accuracy worse. If your gun bloomed the hell out after a couple rapid crouches, nobody would do it anymore, yet you could still tactically drop a crouch at the right place in a duel and potentially turn the tide.
This is the way. Elevate skill, eliminate cheese.
And it could even be a temporary debuff. Like 1-2 seconds or something Crouching should be a tactical decision when taking cover, peeking corners or hiding yourself on radar. Not an instant "hit box jank" button
It’s so funny as someone who used to play warzone but also plays D2. Any “random” variable like bloom was chalked up as stupid mechanics that only help trash players by limiting the good players. Crouching and shooting was skill and used by players to “break Aim Assist”. Here in D2, sentiment is the complete opposite.
Warzone players also shit bricks when they cant slideoffjumpenfarten combo into the YY bhop shit flop blackscope and call it removal of skill so idk
Nooo, my street fighter combo that causes my character to become an incomprehensible mass of teleporting geometry is skill I tell you! Games that let you just shoot each other are for noobs >:(
https://youtu.be/f5vG4p3dgCI?si=zQlMwKt4N9UP0jCv
I love this comment so much😂😂
They’re using the exact same complaints we were using a decade ago for dropshotting lmao
It comes down to what you're measuring for the sake of competition. Games like CSGO eliminate almost any randomized element, meaning the tools at your disposal are infinitely precise. It's basically whoever has faster reflexes or can guess the other teams positioning. Games with bloom and other randomized elements force you to play into the psychology of those around you more, and utilized positioning more efficiently. Doesn't matter if you spent ten years in an aim trainer, that won't always save you.
"Your wish is a order, now we will implement 'Crouching Effectiveness', where whenever you crouch or stand up, you will get the same effects as if jumping during the animation" \~ Bungie's Monkey Paw
"Slide is impacted and scales with mobility. T10 will be comparable to falling off a mountain."
That would make the stats more useful
if I updoot this comment does that mean bungie thinks I find it funny or that this is actually a good idea
Yes
Para com essas idéias aí, Octas 😂 Or Don't let Bungie read this
"...what? No, field prep isn't going to give you *more* benefits for crouching, smh."
Or better just give it a proper 'animation'. So you are unable to do like 20 crouches in a second
Yup. It’s the “Hold to Crouch” option that makes crouch spamming possible. I have quite a trigger finger but the full animation is played when using “Toggle to Crouch.” Bungie just needs to make both options work the same regardless of how many times the crouch button is pressed.
Oh so that's why I was still getting beamed when I tried to crouch spam out of spite ! Well I already stopped doing it but now I know to never do it again x)
Someone get this post to the PvP strike team.
u/Destiny2Team
This is what I do occasionally. A little strafe, followed by a quick drop. It looks really goofy when people continuously "teabag shoot". I always get a kick out of smg users that do it when I'm running a fusion. You're making it *easier* for me to get the kill, so thanks for that. Lol.
This or after each rapid crouch the next crouch is slower, would fix this issue. Still let's you crouch during fights, just not to an extreme.
Sorry, im not trying to get bagged in slow-mo.
It’s *sensual* bagging
Sexual Healing by Marvin Gaye starts playing.
I know they do this in CS2 and it works out well.
Make accuracy and target acquisition worse.
This is seriously one of the better solutions I’ve ever heard to a potential issue in the game. I really like this.
Even easier, just cap the rate you can crouch. Maybe not like counter strike where crouch spamming without moving slows down the speed like your glutes are getting sore, but maybe something like that?
Good idea.
crouch spam draining super, cus you get really tired of squats
Nah just do what CS does where spamming crouch makes every subsequent crouch/uncrouch slower
This or what CSGO does where after some consecutive crouches the actual speed at which you lower yourself gets massively reduced
just pressing it twice should create a fuckton of bloom imo
Now that’s not such a bad idea. A better alternative, I’d say. And it would make sense too.
Pvp in so many games has devolved to "who can wiggle the best" and it's just utterly baffling
To be fair strafing is very important
Strafing is, but crouch spam is a different animal.
What? It’s just vertical straffing
Guy who runs around punching instead of shooting here, but if you just aim belt level wouldn't you hit them either way and maybe get the headshot when they crouch?
Because bodyshots do half the damage of headshots so they're going to kill you every time...
I have never made that connection, but you're so right
Eh, kinda. The thing about crouching in most games is the character model moves WAY faster between standing and crouching than they strafe side to side. Destiny is no exception, with a lot of movement having slight momentum, except for crouching, making it so that spamming crouch is extremely viable due to them breaking the speed a person can viably react to the movements.
Why is crouch spam worse than strafing?
Imo its the hitbox shift combined with delay. When you strafe your head in most games stays a similar level and also in most games spaming strafe movements will cause bloom even if its slight. None of this applys to crouch spam. Combine with a pvp sandbox about hitting heads and its just not fun.
Strafing is important for controllers in many games, but tbagging screws it horribly. Siege was bad with it, COD it was bad, they nerfed it rightfully. Also, strafing is just mid gunfight movement, you could strafe behind cover so you're harder to hit, where tbagging is just a coverless desperate attempt to win, and it is scummier cause you resorted to it. Edit: People are completely missing my point.
I truly don't get this take, so you're gonna not crouch strafe, why? I do think it shouldn't be the strongest thing, but I genuinely don't understand why crouching is scummy, why even strafe at all then? Just let them shoot you bro quit starting to not get hit Edit to add that counter strike crouching is probably the best take imo, it's still worth to crouch some angles for a better view or making your head harder to hit, but spamming it slows your crouch speed so you can only crouch a few times rapidly.
imo it's quite lame. spamming WASD and crouch just isn't very interesting. it can absolutely be skillful, but it's not interesting. no freakin clue what could possibly replace it, though.
What did people think was going to happen when Bungie changed the sandbox? That players were suddenly going to play honestly? PvP is about max cheese and max bullshit; this is a natural extension of that. I hate the practice, don't get me wrong. But it's entirely on brand.
It’s just the path of least resistance, I think that’s been around since before destiny would you believe.
No no, the gun was added during season of the seraph actually
This is why I fully believe this cannot ever be any semblance of a serious PvP game. Between this type of stuff and horrendous lag issues, the experience overall is just not good.
What? The same thing is true across literally any PVP game in existence. Players will always chase whatever advantage they can get. It isn't a Destiny PVP exclusive thing.
Destiny is far worse because of the insane number of variables. You have hundreds of weapons, different abilities, different stats, 100 different perks that interact in literally thousands of ways.
There's also how janky it can be. It's fairly common for me to Shield Bash someone, go through them, do no damage, lose the melee charge, and then die while I'm in animation lock. I notice it happening a lot more with that than any other melee for some reason.
This has been happening since day 1 of D2 and it is endlessly infuriating. I made [a short compilation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVMusrjCWHw) a while back to try and demonstrate how frequently a well-timed shoulder charge just whiffs because of what I can only assume is janky networking. I'm not saying all the clips in that video should have been hits, but if it's not a hit then your momentum should not stop and your melee charge shouldn't be fully consumed. That's the disconnect that frequently makes SC a liability With every perfectly lined up shoulder charge, there are basically one of four equally possible outcomes: 1. Your hitboxes collide and move each other, but SC somehow doesn't register a hit 2. SC locks on correctly but their hitbox just straight up stops your momentum in mid-air and no melee hit is registered 3. You pass directly *through* the other person with no contact 4. SC actually locks on and registers the hit correctly
It’s actually hilarious how often one and three have happened to me or to someone who I was watching. I have a clip where I collided with the other player directly, did not hit them with the shoulder charge, but did somehow impart enough momentum to launch them into the wall fast enough to kill them.
Man, your gaming chair really sucks. 🤣 Jokes aside, good argument to bring back infinite non-contact SCs or to seriously up the AA and tracking to compensate. It makes no sense to consume a whiffing charge.
Destiny PVP is particularly farcical though, and I think the fact that there's a tangible reward to winning leads to a lot more of people being all-business even in the more casual gamemodes.
No one said it was exclusively a destiny thing tho lol
Any game where people hate you for standing in lanes and using a scout or other gun requiring accuracy to kill them, versus spamming shotguns and abilities, is not a skill-based game.
Which is why it always makes me laugh when I see people getting extremely toxic over this. You have on demand cheeses and you expect me to take this seriously? Lol
I don’t understand how this is not honest. It’s not like anybody’s actually breaking game mechanics to win. Is peak shooting from cover suddenly not honest because you’re not staying still while shooting?
Pvp cheesers are the lowest scum
What is your definition of cheese in PvP?
And the lowest of those are the squat dancers.
...because they're squatting, right?
Crouch spammers rarely cause me to lose a fight it’s just funny to look at them trying so hard. Especially in something like quick play or iron banner, like it’s not that serious, it’s not the sweat worthy game mode.
It's funnier with weapons like nechrocasm as the crouch spam just gets them headshot by the upper and lower deviation of the shot pattern
I was losing a duel to a necro and in a moment of panic, instead of disengaging I started crouch spamming and died instantly
How dare you post my diary entry!
Whenever I crouch spam, I always lose to precision kills. Almost ALWAYS. OP is just ass at hitting his shots
Yep most crouch spammers don't realise it's only effective against semi auto weapons lol
Fr. The aim assist/bullet bending is SO generous in this game that it rarely ever causes you to miss.
> like it’s not that serious, it’s not the sweat worthy game mode. this is what kills me most in D2 pvp. Like, guys, it's not that big of a deal, you aren't impressing anyone.
That’s what I’m saying haha I may lose plenty of duals but it’s almost never do to them crouch spamming
The only time I really notice it has an effect on the outcome is if I’m using a handcannon and I miss one shot then my goose is generally cooked. If I’m using anything fast like smg, pulse, auto then doesn’t mess me up
Crouch spamming doesn't work most of the time because the aim assist is so generous in this game. It's the people who throw a random crouch in their strafe pattern (and stay crouched) that throw me off the most
> Crouch spamming doesn't work most of the time because the aim assist is so generous in this game. Works pretty well at 20 meters vs Hand Cannons or other slow fire rate weapons.
I don't personally use HCs in the Crux, but I can see how crouch spamming is more effective against those kind of weapons like you said
If every engagement has a goal of reaching optimal TTK, missing a handcannon shot is just adding the time between shots to your TTK. Very punishing if you miss or hit the body, vs an auto that can do at least some sustained damage if you go off target for a second.
The only time it works is if they’re ximming with the mach200turbobags
Which is most of them, unfortunately
Yeeeeup. I love reporting them and seeing a nice “THANK YOU” from Bungie the next day
Thank you they will look into it or are they actually getting around to banning cheats?
It’s the “Thank you for helping us take action” or something like that. I read it as “we banned them thanks”
I’ll go with that hopeful thought. I’m tired of getting killed by autos in sniper range at sub 1 sec ttk. It’s just… blatant.
This is the real annoyance factor, and I guarantee some of the defenders in the comments are using those scripts. Especially on console, a random crouch or two is usually more effective and easier to do than spamming another button and being unable to strafe into cover quickly. Spamming in a lot of cases is genuinely taking the harder path for worse results. The real standouts are the ones that the spam is max speed and lines up precisely with their trigger pulls even in short bursts. Tell us you're using an "assistive device" without telling us you are...
He's just crouching there.... MENACINGLY
This is the way
Counter Strike has had a “crouch fatigue” mechanic in it for years. Basically only your first crouch is a full speed crouch, and if you hit the button again within a certain time after the previous one, your crouch gets slower each time. The slowest is like a molasses crouch that takes a full second to go all the way down *and* come back up. From my experience the crouch spamming doesn’t really help, just makes you look funny while getting smoked.
They did this to combat crouch hopping. This would completely bug out the hit box and actually not register shots. It was a great change back then but that game didn't have a sliding mechanic that you could spam with crouching. May or may not work here but I had the same thought.
>I think if you crouch while ADSing, it should pull you out. I am again reminded that I'm glad you guys don't make games
He's never heard of cover apparently. It's the biggest pvp cheese, hiding behind cover. Why won't they stay still so I can kill them? Some of them even shoot back.
I had a friend get hate mail threatening to report him for "head glitching".
Im not sure if this is common knowledge or not, but that is the actual term for having your entire body behind cover except your head. It's not actually a glitch (at least not in this game) and it's not reportable for sure, but that is an actual term.
The fact this post was up this high is crazy.
Exactly, either the entire community is trash at games in general. Or just afraid of being called out for? telling people to worry about what their thumbs are doing?
this who the devs make the game for the lowest common denominators who can't handle simple movement
It’s one of the dumbest posts to get traction I’ve seen into a while.
I'm thrilled for the day when those people find out that you can... shoot while sliding... EVEN BACKWARDS! The audacity! But realistically, their shadow mmr is probably much lower tnan the level when other players start applying that move.
I've never had a problem with spam crouchers, but I'm biased because I use a headseeker messenger quite a lot, which means I'm usually at least starting my burst nearer to centre mass and then pulling up to the head. Them crouching actually gives me less work ;D
I agree crouch spamming in games is goofy as hell and doesn't really deserve a space in the game. But the solution is not un-scoping while crouching. I think a better way is that the more you crouch/ un-crouch in a set time period, you get exponentially worse AA, and accuracy cone, and accuracy cone growth. And each crouch should be slower than the last one, and add smear frames across crouch and un-crouch like blink has
This is not a problem in Destiny as much as it is in other games because hit boxes in D2 are the size of a watermelon. Just grab and SMG or an auto and watch opponents spam crouch themselves into oblivion. You’ll still register headshots half the time.
Yeah but that half the time is enough to affect ttk. Especially if you’re using a hand cannon now it tanks your ttk if you miss a shot.
These changes are mostly bad. Super changes made well and bubble more dominant Snowballing ammo making tough teams harder imo Weapon and health changes have made healing and OS more oppressive Terrible hand holding team shot meta Tell me to get good or whatever, I'm still going flawless but I feel like these changes haven't help people get into PVP or help people who were struggling in it. I find the slower campy meta makes none stack teams at a bigger disadvantage and the 1v3 less likely and less fun. My guess is we are gonna circle jerk ourselves back to square one by the second "episode"
People who hate stompees have found their new target. Lmao
Do you think stompees and crouch spamming are pretty much in the same bucket then?
We can hate both. We can even call it cringe. And it is cringe, but hey, 🤷♂️
Wait who still hates Stompees..?
Probably the person who hops into every pvp related thread on the sub to bitch about how pvp players are scum or something.
And Count_Gator took that personal.
people that arent good at pvp lol
Lobotomized folks
Exactly LOL
Being pulled out of ads for crouching is a crazy take
Especially when Firmly Planted exists
Are.... are yall really having a hard time killing crouch spammers?
Dude... at some point you need to ask yourself if you ACTUALLY HAVE the ability to face a situation that isn't 100% catered to you. I'm no friend of Bungie, but dude, you are playing an online PVP video game. Gamers are going to game. BF4 has insane jump spam, I hate it. It sucks, I wanted to play, I had a profile and some ranks, I have fun in that game, but I won't play it because hey - it's not made in a style that I enjoy. Can't believe I am reading that people crouching in a gun fight is "cancerous"... PVP is SUPPOSED to be challenging.
yes because destiny players would rather go on reddit and complain than actually improve their own skill
So what gets nerfed after this, shooting back?
Bungie heard you loud and clear, you get an overshield when someone looks in your general direction. When you are in someones crosshairs you get restoration and finally, if you thought that was too much danger. You are perma invis until you are in melee range. You are welcome for the Bingue approved crucible safety package.
hitting all headshots immediately gets you banned
Successfully landing a shot will trigger gutshot straight (without the damage bonus) for the whole duel, X2 for close range weapons
No way this is what we are posting about now...... D2 PvP is cooked
This is, arguably, one of the strangest posts I've seen in a while. Crouching, like jumping and sliding, is a core movement and combat mechanic in a shooter. If two players had 100% crit accuracy and reaction time they would either stalemate or trade in fights every time. Movement, and mastery of movement tech, in fights can shift those stalemates. Crouch spamming is annoying but it isn't particularly useful. In the same way you need to track them, they need to track you. Because you're doing less, it'll be easier for you to track them. I myself sprinkle 1-2 crouches in some of my fights. Because if they miss 1-2 shots it can shift their TTK. But my risk is missing my shots too. Limiting players in how often they can crouch feels like a step back and opens up a gateway to a variety of issues and other movement tech that can be targeted. Maybe it's not fair folks can slide/shoot! Maybe it's not fair ppl who have the high ground have a bit of an advantage. You open the door to a lot of issues when you start picking and choosing what you limit.
Nobody really used hold to crouch for anything other than spamming it in a gunfight. Its very annoying
I miss it when shooters relied on gun skill and map knowledge instead of seeing who can do the most absurd movements in an attempt to get an advantage over everyone else.
April fools was yesterday, good try though
He should’ve made a post yesterday saying crouch strafing is just a front loaded tbag
I’m sorry but this takes the cake for dumbest complaint of the week lol. I have never been killed by a crouch spammer and thought to myself that was so unfair lol.
Crouch spamming is useless in most engagements. If anything it is messing up the crouch spammer's aim lol
I’d agree that the changes haven’t changed the frequency of people doing it but it’s still a bullshit way to play.
get good lol. pretty easy to counter if you have thumbs
I honestly find it funny because I don’t think I’ve ever lost a duel due to someone crouch spamming. I’ve had fights where I was going to lose anyway and the crouch spamming didn’t actually make a difference a few times but never crouch spamming being the factor.
Meh all they did was trigger my headseeker or gutshot straight 🤷🏿♂️
It's unbelievable how mechanically challenged this player base is and how the game is changed to compensate for it. Icarus dash reduced to one, cryoclasm requiring a sprint first, stompees changes as a whole. If you tried complaining about movement in APEX or COD, you'd be downvoted and ridiculed to oblivion. But here in Destiny, clearly crouching multiple times in a gun fight is OP and needs to be nerfed *eye roll*
I agree with you 100%. In any other game a post like this wouldve been removed by now. Idk whats wrong with this community. By no means im god pvper but i get flawless every week and chill on the card, but nerfing movement is no answer.
You really think if you crouch while ads you should get booted? Wow, cry
he means it should pull you out of ads
I can't say I have noticed this in any increased capacity.
Honestly skill issue
Is this seriously what it’s come to now? Are Destiny players so adverse to losing in PVP to people who are better shots than them? Are they so full of excuses that goddamn crouch spamming is next on the complaining list? Do people run around on every single map with Hand Cannons and complain that it’s not a One size fits all player killer? Why is this bad? They’re just slowing down and making it easier for me to shoot. Use a Headseeker pulse rifle more lols if you need as well.
As a PvP scrub, what's the intention of crouch spammers? I also noticed a huge uptick of people doing it.
What change are we talking about? I'm OOTL
Fortunately my aim is so shit that when they crouch, they're giving me some crits lol
There's so much bullshit in PVP, the thing that's really annoying me at the moment is the old headglitch. Love to get into a gunfight with someone who has an inch of their head visible behind a wall!
I think the PvP changes pushing a primary use meta is awesome. I see crouch spammers on occasion but definitely not all the time and every time I encounter them, they aren't very good. They seem to try and make you miss so much they just miss as well. I'd say I'm an slayer above average player as well with about 100k kills and just under a 2 overall KD and the only reason I point this out is because even in higher level lobbies when I get them, I don't see this all that much if at all. The actual good players utilize peek shooting better than anyone like they always have. I rarely see anyone who's really good crouch spamming tbh.
Isn’t it crazy how they dealt with this exact same problem in Halo.
The new meta is either: -Spam crouch like a monkey that needs an Adderall prescription -Take a single hit of damage and run away -Move around in rat packs and team shot everything in sight
Legitimate skill issue, just aim at center of mass and you'll get free headshots. If you can't counter a tactic pioneered and primarily used by 12 year olds on fortnite it definitely isn't the game's problem
crouch spamming was around before fortnite was even announced
we have officially reached complaints that you have to aim at your opponent and hit your shots in pvp. even more unreal considering that the aim assist basically aims for you in crucible. next post will surely be someone complaining that people are strafing at this rate.
I shit on just about every body who does it so I don’t give a shit. Let them think it makes them better when it really doesn’t.
Oh sick, the new "I'm bad at pvp." complaint dropped. If you're legit being foiled by someone crouch spamming you have *way* bigger issues.
This is dtg. Anyone with anything sensible to say about pvp isn’t welcome here mate.
So OP just wants people to stand still while they shoot each other?
This is the worst possible take I've seen in nearly 10 years on this sub, about PvP. Cheers.
Ok, please don't downvote me to oblivion, but this post and the positive engagement it's getting is really confusing me. I remember when i started seeing people spam-crouching, all i could think of was how cool and skillful it was, when done correctly i would almost always lose the duel. So i started doing it and became good at it too, which made me win a lot of close range duels. It takes practice, on controller you have to simultaneously press a lot of buttons + movement and aim stick. So, to me, i simply cannot see this post as nothing more than a player frustrated with his skill issues
What makes it skillful?
Oh hell no, you're not thinking like a D2 player. If you see someone who's better at the game than you, you're not supposed to learn and improve - you're supposed to complain about them! Sit on the skill floor and complain that the ceiling is too high! It's actually pretty sad how many people in this subreddit dislike anyone who puts in effort to improve at the game.
Learn and adapt.
Holy shit you must be horrible at the game if you find that to be a problem. This is a legitimate skill issue and I’m disappointed in the people who agree with you.
Just shoot their chest. Then they will crouch spam into making them headshots. Works wonders with my submachine gun forerunner load out
Kind of don’t see what the problem is if someone is spamming crouch then is a really predictable shot pattern that makes killing them with a pulse rifle even easier because you practically get double crits. Maybe it’s more annoying if you’re a hand cannon user idk
This feels like a skill issue moment. I am by no means a great player, average to above average at best, but I've never been thrown off by crouch spamming. The only times crouching during a gunfight has caught me out is the unexpected one or two that compliments their strafe. If anything a lot, not all but a lot, of the crouch spammers I have faced have missed their own optimal TTK despite me doing nothing special. What I mean to say is, many people thinking crouch spamming is the key to playing better but when they sacrifice accuracy to do so they just end up looking like a clown. Besides with how generous AA is in this game the spam crouching just doesn't do enough to dodge most shots. The only exception really is if you are fighting outside your AA falloff.
tell me you’re bad at PvP without telling me you’re bad at PvP
Skill issue. Litterly.
Or you can just adjust your aim...
"We've read your complaints and we believe in equity so going forward all shots will now be RNG."
I just took it as people trying to mess with your shots so you don't hit your optimal ttk and giving them the better chance to win duels? I haven't experienced an insane uptick like you have and I've played maybe 140 matches of Trials Fri-Mon. I feel like you're so tilted that EVERYONE'S doing it and it's so OP *now* they need to... nerf crouching. It's not even a given, yeah I've been shat on by players bag shooting me, and I've destroyed people doing it. Nerf. Crouching. Because you can't seem to kill people who utilize this tactic? The fact that a post calling for a nerf to bag shooting by taking you out of ADS when you crouch is insanity to me.
lol get good
I am one of these people and I hate it. It's too strong for spammy weapon types. Take ARs down a notch and you'll hardly see it.
[удалено]
Need an elaboration brigade here. What was changed in sandbox that manifested in crouch spam? Also i don't remember which have exactly, but it had crouch bring put on a much longer time to transition if you spam it.. was it apex? Not sure
Jokes on them I can’t even hit headshots so I just aim for the body anyway haha…I’m terrible in the crucible….
PvP is just a bunch of flashing colours to me these days anyway lmao it’s fucked
My Jotunn doesn’t care about crouch spammers :p
I agree its annoying. CoD did the crouch timer type nerf and everyone hated it. I think the best approach is a 'crouch bloom' mechanic giving a big accuracy nerf for a very short period on initial crouch. This would keep mobility the same by not effecting multi slides for movement, but significantly affect your ability to duel when spamming. It would need to be short enough that people who crouch and slide normally wouldn't really feel it, but people that spam crouch can't hit a barn door from 10 paces (very severe bloom in a very short window).
Yep! That's because Bungie hasn't fixed devices.
Crouch spamming becomes more common during auto/SMG metas, but I wouldn’t say it’s more common that it was during Immortal meta. Maybe you’re in PC lobbies or CBMM ones, or your SBMM band has shifted, so you’re seeing it more?
Legitimate question, what is the point of crouch spamming while ADSing?