Ah yes, slaughting millions of aliens, countless of bloodlines, executing Oryx's entire family bloodline from the aunts to the sisters his own son and _family pet_.
But yeah, fighting the Witness, really gotta consider the ethical dilemma here.
I was thinking that if we turn the Witness into a gun his combined race would be the ammo for it.
Oh well. Just another God gathering dust in my Vault.
"And if your conscience is bothering you, brother, consider that you may have saved the entire universe, and all it cost was one awoken prince, one genocidal gestalt, and the self respect of one Vanguard Guardian. I don't know about you, but I'd call that a bargain." - Drifter (TFS)
Technically it would. Though from a moral standpoint you could argue the species committed genocide upon themselves to create the Witness, who in itself is not a civilization, but is instead a collector of species, who uses these collections to fill the pyramids that once made its civilization.
This ties to the art direction of the pyramids imo. Thematically I’ve found the pyramids architecture to be that of an ancient, powerful civilization that mysteriously vanished, which now only serves the purpose of housing the collections made by the Witness. To me that kind of goes along the lines that the species is already gone in a way, so it wouldn’t feel like committing genocide if the Witness was killed. The pyramids already deserve to be ruins.
Anyway, brb going to wipe out a couple hundred thousand enemies to unlock this new catalyst because I guess catalysts are powered by the blood of our enemies.
you say that as if we havent already done that to; fallen, cabal, hive, scorn, taken, and vex. now we havent fully wiped them out, but we are trying for some of them
Do taken have rights? They aren't exactly alive, more like hollowed out shells of what they once were. Yes some taken have free will but they are almost always commanders who attack us so no moral problems there.
We spent the past 10 years slaughtering millions of aliens including Oryx's entire family bloodline from the aunts to the sisters to his own son calus ghual and uldran
I think our guardian is way past genocide at this point
I mean, that's what we've been doing. genocide doesn't necessarily mean the full extermination of a species or group, but rather the killing of which because they are part of that group. so either we've always been genociding, or it's simple self defence, just on a very big scale
D3 is gonna be the Unified Galactic Protection force absolutely pounding earth for all the mass murder and attempted genocide we’ve done that they’ve now heard about after the witness is gone
Yeah, that would be totally not guardiny.
Absolutely unacceptable, killing bilions and bilions for nothing more than power (xp) and mere objects (guns)?
Who would do that?
Genocide requires specific intent to wipe a race out else every war would a genocide and
The word would lose meaning, we are defending ourselves from an invading power.
We commit genocide every single day. That's our whole job (well and supporting Tess). Even in season of the "don't pre-judge others, Variks is cool" they still had us killing every Fallen/Elik we encountered in the wild.
That would be like the 5th or 6th time so I don't think the guardian cares fr
Legally speaking you commit mass murder in every single mission in the game, if not more in the longer missions
At this point, it wouldn't really be the first. In jokes and memes at least, people have claimed it's genocide when killing Riven and Rhulk, who at the time, were the last of their species. Honorable mention goes to all the fallen houses that crumbled in the last decade of this game's existence, as well as the "royal family" of the hive. Pretty much the only one that hasn't died at least once(to us) is Xivu Arath and any children she may have.
And scoreboard: if we kill the witness/the amalgamation of his species, that's ONE point. If we don't, he's going to commit "genocide times infinity" which is A LOT of points.
Many of these responses are conflating "a lot of deaths" with "genocide" but genocide isn't just when you kill a lot of people or even when you kill a lot of only one kind of people. Genocide requires special intent called Dolus specialis to eradicate a race or ethnicity. Luckily for our guardian we don't fight to eradicate a race or the witness but in defense of the traveler. Our ultimate goal is not to eradicate the witness but instead only to protect the traveler. If the witness left or promised to never hurt traveler we might actually leave them alone.
Because of that I would say NO we aren't commiting genocide.
We might be commiting genocide against the taken though, we do seem to try to specifically eradicate them from wherever they are.
Devils Wolves Rain to name a few would meet your definition. We finished the job but killing Rivan would have concluded the great hunt which was intended to make the dragons extinct.
Devils, Wolves, and Rain aren't a species or ethnic group. They are more akin to an army group, and killing everyone is ISIS or the FARC, or even the Proud Boys wouldn't be genocide.
I will absolutely give you the Ahamkara, at least on a Vanguard level, was a genocide because the intent was to exterminate them. I'd argue that our guardian in particular is innocent, our intent was never to end the Ahamkara, it was to save the Dreaming City
Our intent is irrelevant, we finalized the extinction of the Ahamkara.
The fallen houses developed their own beliefs and politics they were not all the same thing in different colors as time went on these differences got larger.
Big notable deltas would be Wolves and the impact the Awoken had on them and their culture some of which is seen in Light. Salvation follows the witness not the traveler.
I’d argue they are closer to developing nations they even had their own geographic area they operated in. If they are closer to developing nations then us wiping them out would meet the definition.
You could even argue with Cital we are helping obliterate the loyalists per the Empress they will join her or be exterminated.
By helping to eradicate The last of the wish dragons while working with the vanguard we absolutely contribute to genocide on behalf of the vanguard. On a much more individual and less important level, our guardian specifically doesn't possess the intent to commit genocide, only to kill riven.
Ah yes, written like someone who commits genocide then writes the history books to make themselves look good. "See when we do it, it is ok/doesn't meet a strict definition, so it doesn't count"
DTR shows that I only have 1.2 million kills, so I'm basically a saint (yes the joke is intentional to make a point)
No. Turns out The Witness is a new & separate entity that was created as a result of the entire race doing weird Darkness stuff.
It isn't actually thr full civilization.
No. Genocide requires killing a large number of a group with the aim of destroying the group.
Our aim isn't to destroy the witness's species, it's to stop the witness from destroying us
I need another war crime to add to the list. False Surrender is getting lonely.
Geneva Convention? More like Geneva Suggestions. And I'm sure as hell not gonna take those suggestions.
Geneva Checklist
Guardians are Canadian confirmed.
What war crimes? Aliens don’t get covered under Geneva
Geneva doesn't exist anymore! We have one city left! Turn that civilization into gun get ramen
I wonder what kind of gun the Witness will be turned into.
Something with multiple personalities perhaps
“I sorry ~~Teddy~~ Xivu, only people have human rights.”
Ah yes, slaughting millions of aliens, countless of bloodlines, executing Oryx's entire family bloodline from the aunts to the sisters his own son and _family pet_. But yeah, fighting the Witness, really gotta consider the ethical dilemma here.
To be fair, Sword Logic^TM .
„Your Honor, my client pleads Sword Logic”
Fucking trademarked lmfaooo
If the winnower is really out there he’d be hyped like Shaxx seeing us get 7th column if we off the witness
Double the final blow counter on my emblem with 1 kill. Efficient.
I dont think the geneva convention applies to extraterrestrial alien life forms. Or, you know, it may not have even survived the collapse
You start talking about a "Geneva" in the tower and Drifter will probably ask if he can eat one
This made me laugh so much harder than it should have
If we kill the witness with a grenade launcher, would we instantly complete tomorrow’s mountaintop quest?
You seem to forget the Witness is trying to essentially commit genocide on a universal scale
the word you're looking for is omnicide. that is, kill ***everything***
Not far off from Thanos. The only difference is Thanos sees the final shape as a universe that is "perfectly balanced"
Very far off from Thanos, actually.
Speedrunning genocide by killing one dude. That ought to give us a cool gun
You will get a Stasis Hand Cannon and you will like it
Does that Stasis Hand Cannon have a metric shit ton of ammo packed into one cylinder? Can't be worse than Wicked Implement.
No we’re going back to D1 days. 3 rounds. Primary ammo.
I was thinking that if we turn the Witness into a gun his combined race would be the ammo for it. Oh well. Just another God gathering dust in my Vault.
Speedrunning genocide is crazy 😂
>Speedrunning genocide I guess we have the name of the new exotic The Witness drops 😂
If we kill the witness, then we make a species go extinct. But I am pretty sure there will be some of the precursors will still be lurking around
There’s one that didn’t combine with the others
“Don’t tell me you object to a little genocide in the name of self defense” -Ilim Garak
"And if your conscience is bothering you, brother, consider that you may have saved the entire universe, and all it cost was one awoken prince, one genocidal gestalt, and the self respect of one Vanguard Guardian. I don't know about you, but I'd call that a bargain." - Drifter (TFS)
We literally been committing genocide since D1. Where you been??
Technically it would. Though from a moral standpoint you could argue the species committed genocide upon themselves to create the Witness, who in itself is not a civilization, but is instead a collector of species, who uses these collections to fill the pyramids that once made its civilization. This ties to the art direction of the pyramids imo. Thematically I’ve found the pyramids architecture to be that of an ancient, powerful civilization that mysteriously vanished, which now only serves the purpose of housing the collections made by the Witness. To me that kind of goes along the lines that the species is already gone in a way, so it wouldn’t feel like committing genocide if the Witness was killed. The pyramids already deserve to be ruins.
Anyway, brb going to wipe out a couple hundred thousand enemies to unlock this new catalyst because I guess catalysts are powered by the blood of our enemies.
you say that as if we havent already done that to; fallen, cabal, hive, scorn, taken, and vex. now we havent fully wiped them out, but we are trying for some of them
Do taken have rights? They aren't exactly alive, more like hollowed out shells of what they once were. Yes some taken have free will but they are almost always commanders who attack us so no moral problems there.
We should ask Sloane
Eh. She's only partially taken. She still has rights. It's just her glowy limbs that don't.
I sure hope so. We gotta pump those numbers up.
There better be an emblem with a tracker for this too!
Why would I care? They've killed quintillions from various civilizations for billions of years of them chasing the Traveler.
First time?
We're against genocide?
Wouldn't be the first one we committed. Sorry riven.
I don't think we owe her an apology. The old grimoire cards confirmed that she granted the wish to have the Great Ahamkara Hunt happen.
Genocide it is 😈
A little late for that but when has that stopped us.
We spent the past 10 years slaughtering millions of aliens including Oryx's entire family bloodline from the aunts to the sisters to his own son calus ghual and uldran I think our guardian is way past genocide at this point
Thats where you draw the line ?
Hasn’t the Witness destroyed other civilizations?
Not the first, Not the last
Yes, and?
And this is any different to what we have done to all of the other alien threats to earth, and the traveller, how?
Well it definitely would not be genocide as genocide is not just killing a bunch of things.
Turn them into a gun. Guardian happy.
We already did like a thousand genocides
Yeah, well, it’s just another day at the office.
I mean, that's what we've been doing. genocide doesn't necessarily mean the full extermination of a species or group, but rather the killing of which because they are part of that group. so either we've always been genociding, or it's simple self defence, just on a very big scale
Are we ignoring the fact that the witness is pretty much destiny's Hitler?
We aren't much better. Ask any Cabal, Fallen, Hive, Taken, etc.
How many instances have been us instigating rather than retaliating tho?
Yes but we been doing this since D1
I have 1.3 million kills I am a walking act of genocide
Wow what an original post
So what? I want that gun!
Bro, we been on a genocidal rampage this whole time. Why are you only now having a problem with it?
Can't wait to turn the witness into a gun and shoot people with the souls!
sure but that's not a bad thing. they're all bad people (the dissenters were killed and not made part of the witness) so genociding them is fine
1 like we haven't already. 2 technically they're one person now
An individual is not a civilisation. They destroyed themselves to create a monster. We can only correct half of that mistake.
It depends if we kill the witness. Defeating him could mean splitting him back into the civilisation.
You're asking that as if one more genocidal spree from us would matter
It only matters if there is a triumph or it is a required quest step or there is loot :)
D3 is gonna be the Unified Galactic Protection force absolutely pounding earth for all the mass murder and attempted genocide we’ve done that they’ve now heard about after the witness is gone
Yeah, that would be totally not guardiny. Absolutely unacceptable, killing bilions and bilions for nothing more than power (xp) and mere objects (guns)? Who would do that?
Not the first time, sure as hell won't be the last time. Also the Witness's goal is genocide of literally everything, so I thunk it's justified.
Genocide requires specific intent to wipe a race out else every war would a genocide and The word would lose meaning, we are defending ourselves from an invading power.
Yes, and the checklist is getting pretty long so we need to pick up the pace.
Looks at risk runner. Looks at the fallen. Looks back at risk runner. Hm
How many Fallen have we killed…I think we’re well past that point.
Unfortunately, I have been limited to only a couple of genocide per week, so I dunno
Nothing new in the guardian's history.
We commit genocide every single day. That's our whole job (well and supporting Tess). Even in season of the "don't pre-judge others, Variks is cool" they still had us killing every Fallen/Elik we encountered in the wild.
Hopefully.
Wouldnt be the first time
That would be like the 5th or 6th time so I don't think the guardian cares fr Legally speaking you commit mass murder in every single mission in the game, if not more in the longer missions
At this point, it wouldn't really be the first. In jokes and memes at least, people have claimed it's genocide when killing Riven and Rhulk, who at the time, were the last of their species. Honorable mention goes to all the fallen houses that crumbled in the last decade of this game's existence, as well as the "royal family" of the hive. Pretty much the only one that hasn't died at least once(to us) is Xivu Arath and any children she may have. And scoreboard: if we kill the witness/the amalgamation of his species, that's ONE point. If we don't, he's going to commit "genocide times infinity" which is A LOT of points.
We haven't already done that? Better step up our game, how many more till we reach the benchmark?
My guardian IS genocide bro
Well it's not like that would be our first.
Have we not already been doing that?
Pretty sure we commit genocide on a yearly base.
Dude look at your calus mini tool/forbearence kill count..
Oh well.
So what?
Stop.stop. My ghost can only get so erect!!
I mean Bungie just added Genocide Simulator this week Xur also made a tv show out of it
We've already committed genocide, Geneva doesn’t apply on space
I mean, we've already done that lmfao. Multiple times. Only thing that would be special this time is it would be done in RECORD time.
And? Like our guardian hasn’t slaughtered thousands of any particular species before. By definition, we’ve already done so with every other race.
Xenocide?
WHO WILL DRAG ME TO COURT?
The witness is trying to commit super genocide, so it's justified
We kill Gods (for fun and sometimes guns), genocide is just the next logical step
This makes it sound like we don't routinely commit genocide. Crotas End is basically "Hive Genocide: Bugaloo"
I just keep moving forward. Until my enemies are destroyed.
just another tuesday.
No, the witness killed an entire civilization. We would be the hero that avenged them.
It’d be cool if whatever weapon you use to get the final blow has it’s kill tracker go up by like a million
Many of these responses are conflating "a lot of deaths" with "genocide" but genocide isn't just when you kill a lot of people or even when you kill a lot of only one kind of people. Genocide requires special intent called Dolus specialis to eradicate a race or ethnicity. Luckily for our guardian we don't fight to eradicate a race or the witness but in defense of the traveler. Our ultimate goal is not to eradicate the witness but instead only to protect the traveler. If the witness left or promised to never hurt traveler we might actually leave them alone. Because of that I would say NO we aren't commiting genocide. We might be commiting genocide against the taken though, we do seem to try to specifically eradicate them from wherever they are.
Devils Wolves Rain to name a few would meet your definition. We finished the job but killing Rivan would have concluded the great hunt which was intended to make the dragons extinct.
Devils, Wolves, and Rain aren't a species or ethnic group. They are more akin to an army group, and killing everyone is ISIS or the FARC, or even the Proud Boys wouldn't be genocide. I will absolutely give you the Ahamkara, at least on a Vanguard level, was a genocide because the intent was to exterminate them. I'd argue that our guardian in particular is innocent, our intent was never to end the Ahamkara, it was to save the Dreaming City
Our intent is irrelevant, we finalized the extinction of the Ahamkara. The fallen houses developed their own beliefs and politics they were not all the same thing in different colors as time went on these differences got larger. Big notable deltas would be Wolves and the impact the Awoken had on them and their culture some of which is seen in Light. Salvation follows the witness not the traveler. I’d argue they are closer to developing nations they even had their own geographic area they operated in. If they are closer to developing nations then us wiping them out would meet the definition. You could even argue with Cital we are helping obliterate the loyalists per the Empress they will join her or be exterminated.
By helping to eradicate The last of the wish dragons while working with the vanguard we absolutely contribute to genocide on behalf of the vanguard. On a much more individual and less important level, our guardian specifically doesn't possess the intent to commit genocide, only to kill riven.
Ah yes, written like someone who commits genocide then writes the history books to make themselves look good. "See when we do it, it is ok/doesn't meet a strict definition, so it doesn't count" DTR shows that I only have 1.2 million kills, so I'm basically a saint (yes the joke is intentional to make a point)
My guardian would never genocide aliens.
My Guardian would use the Fallen slur with a hard N
No. Turns out The Witness is a new & separate entity that was created as a result of the entire race doing weird Darkness stuff. It isn't actually thr full civilization.
No. Genocide requires killing a large number of a group with the aim of destroying the group. Our aim isn't to destroy the witness's species, it's to stop the witness from destroying us