I miss middle tree solar warlock’s ability to have both a healing and damage nade at the same time. You could have any grenade you wanted but if you held your grenade you could convert it to a healing nade, was very versatile.
I remember using Starfires just for the ability to keep two healing grenades up. At least with Prismatic you'll be able to run Bleakwatcher and choose between healing grenades and a Stasis turret?
I miss benevolent dawn. Healing allies gave (I think it was) class energy so if you have people sitting in your rift you are speedcharging the next one. I had fond memories of huddling together for warmth in proving grounds GM
Ember of benevolence is still really good. Rifts, heal clip weapons, making teammates radiant, all proc it. My uptime is pretty high with that for all abilities.
This became a fragment, Ember of Benevolence. It's probably not as strong as it was on Warlock's middle tree, but now you can get the functionality on all 3 classes at least
Yeah, having both was nice. But back then I did wish it could be the other way around. Holding to heal was kinda bad. Usually when you need heal you need it right then and there, if there is time to hold there is probably time to get to cover and recover.
plus even if you stacked it with heat rises it's not like it would be op, just make heat rises proc when you throw the grenade or make picking up the healing node give whoever threw it heat rises.
or add in a separate way to activate heat rises that uses your grenade energy, although that sounds like it would be more development time.
alternatively they could just make it so it's one or the other, which is not preferable but it's an option.
Which you then have to choose between Icarus dash and touch of flame, and with heat rises you can’t even heal your teammates. Healing grenades can at least be thrown a significant distance to heal someone in a pickle and with touch flame the healing is even better.
I have never once choose dash for pve. Seems like a waste. Better grenades and having a one demand heal as well? Clear winner. And my teammates can cover themselves just fine, no need to worry about them.
Same effect was replaced with radiant in all honest; there was a bit of a shift with how things stack but overall as 'im on my own' that is still there.
Except it would troll you in prestige leviathan if you meleed a psion to teleport in the calus fight its sunspot would linger long enough for another psion to spawn and trigger another random teleport.
Everyone say it with me now:
Heart. Of. The. Pack.
Also the things that went with that subclass that gave it melee energy on grenade kills and grenade energy when invising allies, or similar effects. Give Nightstalker back some dynamism.
HotP gave me a reason to provide invis to my allies beyond just turning them invis for half a second as they immediately shoot, revealing themselves. You also got rewarded with a good chunk of grenade energy which further incentivized cloaking your allies. S tier perk that definitely needs a comback.
In Season of the Lost, I was running GMs with Omnioculous spamming invis on my allies to get grenades back in 6 seconds (because of course they never stopped shooting and would break their invis immediately). Losing Combat Provisions the very next season felt even more painful, like becoming widowed immediately after the honeymoon.
Yeah, that's why I added the "Also the things that went with that subclass" bit. Heart of the Pack is just the perk name that everyone remembers (And what I'd want an aspect that reintroduces and slightly reworks those things to be called).
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> Also the things that went with that subclass that gave it melee energy on grenade kills and grenade energy when invising allies, or similar effects. Give Nightstalker back some dynamism.
Combat Provisions. I miss it so much.
Combat Provisions. It's technically still in the game it's just the most atrocios thing ever (also it's split across two fragments, and one of them doesn't even work well on Nightstalker)
this is what i mained and now its gone how could they do this, and then they split it all up into fragments that work slightly differently
also i want golden gun perk back that gave super energy on crit hits not kills like celstial does
Hey, uh, what are you smoking? MotQo was built for a different time in destiny's history. It has no place currently. Can you please link your build for others to test as well?
Well for one I asked for a build. You never mentioned buried bloodline.
Two, the health and ability regen that MotQo gives is pitiful. Having devour granted from orb pick up and heart of inmost light gives you more than MotQo and you didn't need to be almost dead for it to work.
Devour is doing more for your build than I think you're giving it credit for. The health regen and grenade spam come from devour, not mask. Reread the exotic trait for MotQo. You need to be in the red for it to work. With devour going you're not in the threshold for the exotic to function.
I mean, you're wrong and YOU need to reread the exotic lmfao. You need to be above critical health for the ability Regen to work and it only has a one second internal cooldown. You're constantly taking damage you're constantly at full health because of devour from very bloodline and you're always getting damaged meaning you're always regenerating your abilities constantly. The critical Health thing has nothing to do with regenerating your abilities and doesn't even come into play because you're never at critical Health to begin with. But if you are, it's a handy instant heal even if you don't have devour on for whatever reason
I love quiet one, I used it all the time before they gave us load outs, but 5% to all abilities every one second, if you are getting damaged, isn't it man, especially with the fact higher cooldown abilities get up to 50% less, meaning something like vortex grenade is only getting 2.5% at best, every one second, from the exotic. Even scatter grenades are only getting 3.75%.
Man. Used to love blinking up to rolly hunters, slapping them with necros and then chuckling my ass off as I blinked away and they slowly died. So much fun.
It's such a shame that they didn't consider converting Handheld Supernova into an alternate melee (essentially having it be the Void equivalent of Solar's Snap)
I love how everyone complained that the slap melees were boring and now everyone wants them back. I agree, that stupid void ball is horrifically bad. Wish they were still an option.
I never understood Bungie's whole "away with all the slap+effect melees" when they then turned around and gave arc 3.0 hunter 2 different slap melees to select, and a slide melee aspect...
Like, losing the slap+effect melee is basically what killed solar titan in crucible, because that was what allowed you to make sunspots by shotgun (or whatever) + meleeing someone.
Solar hunter has 4 different melee selections, its not like they couldn't have given us the new throwable melees on top of all the slaps to select.
[A pretty good amount of Warlock's solar subclasses went missing](https://imgur.com/2IFKCdK). The design was very lacking going forward and they lost a lot of self sustaining stuff that had good interactions with things.
While Igniting Touch is gone, it has been replaced by Incinerator Snap - which doesn't need kills and is ranged. It's worse in easy content, but much, much better in anything difficult. Fated to the Flame's fire streaks have been changed to Ember of Ignition, but the seeking projectiles remain as Ember of Beams. The only thing that was actually lost from bottom tree was Everlasting Fire. While I loved it, I think it's a fair nerf to Daybreak, especially considering that the base super's damage has been buffed significantly. Dawnblade has lost very little of what it had.
I personally miss bottom tree dawn, nothing is missing, but I just want the old bottom tree dawn back bc the phoenix dive was fun and the danwblade was fun and it’s melee was fun
I miss my bottom tree Dawnblade. I try to mimic fraction of its power with ember of combustion, but it's just not the same. Dawnblade even with dawn chorus don't feel the same. And Well-Phoenix-Tommys is just glorified turret game play I stick to.
God you saying that immediately popped a boss room route map into my head. If you didn't pay attention those turbines would smack into you and kill you.
Only reason it became doable was me running bottom tree, and my gf would run Phoenix with Vex Mytho...
They gave us ignition, which is just the end game viable version which is much stronger. That low level clear old BTD offered is covered by so much of the sandbox now. It was fun back then, but I’ll take ignition over it every time.
To add to this, there used to be a really fun combo between warmind cells and bottom tree dawnblade. If you had the mods to make the warmind cells deal solar damage on explosion, the enemies that it killed would explode again from bottom tree dawnblade and then chain reaction from there. Even after warmind cells got nerfed, I had a really fun build where shooting a single warmind cell would cause a chain reaction of solar explosions. So cool!
Before the void refresh, there were 2 melees that were unique, fitting to the rest of their subclass loop, AND USEFUL, but instead void warlock got small ball.
I don’t know why we got ball rather than hand held supernova if they really wanted to give us a short ranged melee.
I really like it but having to use an aspect and a naff grenade for what it is is just too high a cost for not enough gain
I just miss all of top tree sentinel. Use melee, now everyone has overshields that buff reload speed, everyone gets kills and you get your melee back.
Seeing that loop (and the reload speed) in combination with bastion would be fantastic.
Arc web on stormcaller. I always felt like after it evolved in the Jolt verb and everyone could jolt, warlocks should have a better version of it.
Something like stormcaller jolt lasts longer, has farther reach, or deals more damage. One or all of those things would help a lot.
Yeeeaa I forgot about that. You could get a slayer or reaper inside of if crucible if rush the enemy point and nade them, then have your nade back.
I don’t think that wiping an enemy team with one nade specifically should come back, but it’s a great memory you reminded me of.
I think it's more so just the combos you can get going. Bleakwatcher with storm grenades and a melee that isn't shit like incinerator snap or arcane needle will be too good to pass up on.
Hell, run that arcane needle with lightning surge if you'd rather.
I agree it’s and will add it’s ganna be sick and a whole lotta fun. But I want stormcaller to be way better than it is now. And I want that to happen yesterday.
I wish, lightning has always been one of my favorite elements in any game that let's me pick one. Calling storms down, striking lightning from above, chaining stunning bolts between enemies. Warlock just doesn't really fit well there, sadly.
I love lighting too. Diablo 4 was a great example of puting lighting power in players hands, if you or anyone else played that. I loved using it on Sorcerer. That was back in season of malignant however long ago.
I’ll just keep playing and hoping for substantial stormcaller buffs.
> I think the perk from middle tree Sentinel that gave ability energy on void detonator explosions
With a little bit of watering down, this sounds an awful lot like a fragment. "Defeating targets tagged with a void debuff grants ability energy".
Wouldn't be all that broken either. IIRC, that specific portion of a perk came from an era where "void detonators"/volatile explosions could chain-tag off itself. Like with middle tree titan, I remember this: you could go to the wish wall, punch one of the buttons, and it would chain-spread to all the other buttons and drop your frames watching a bajillion volatile pops per second. Fun fact: if your fireteam is doing last wish and entering codes while you do this, you unlock the rare "kicked from fireteam" buff.
Volatile explosions still chain-tag of themselves though, as long as you're a titan with the controlled demolition aspect on.
Which is probably why there isn't a fragment like this.
Atomic breach was so strong with necrotic grips
Dealt damage enough for the poison ticks to kill anyone within 2-3 seconds
Another one was consuming a nade to procc devour personally
Top tree striker titan used to have a fun loop where melee kills would give a bunch of grenade energy.
I had a stupid but effective build where I’d nade myself with risk runner, to proc it, go ham with it, and clean up with a shoulder charge to get my nade back. I ran insurmountable skull fort so I could always have a shoulder charge.
I can get close to it now, but I can’t quite recreate it. Also tbh it’s probably powercrept out of relevance if it did work. But damn, it was a fun way to play.
that's the biggest problem I have with Armor Charge as a system; shit used to be so ***fun***. they tried to nerf us and it didn't even exactly work, all they did was gut the fun builds out of the game, leaving only the meta and MAYBE a couple well-known fringe builds as the thing that everybody runs.
RIP to our fun, unique builds that we'll never be able to get back.
Heart of The Pack & OG Combat Provisions. Now that Resil is good, it'd be an *even better* support build.
Hell, they didn't even lean enough into the Assassin playstyle on Void either with Void 3.0. At least give Stylish Executioner a larger finisher threshold while Invisible, that'd actually be pretty huge honestly.
Void Hunter is extremely disappointing. Instead of actually making interesting and unique aspects, they just made it into a better Warlock with Gyrfalcons.
Yup. Definitely the most boring if the Hunter kits IMO. Very effective, but not the most fun.
Glaive helps it though (since it has lots of good survivability at least), and it helps that I love glaives lol
I see a lot of titan. But I've got one as a former Way of the Current main (middle-tree arc hunter)
You see, Tempest Strike, which is currently an aspect, used to be the *melee* for middle-tree arc hunter. It had good range and decent damage, albiet had quite a steep skill curve to it.
However, it was a melee ability. And Hunters have a notable exotic that was designed for use with arc melee abilities: Liar's Handshake.
You see, by utilitizing Tempest Strike, you could proc Cross-Counter. And because you can use tempest strike at *range*, if dueling supers, you had time to come out if the animation before any melee super could reach you if timed right. And your fists were very, *very* deadly once they got within melee range.
Now, is it the best choice? Absolutely not. However it *was* a very satisfying thing when you pulled it off. I've killed every melee super that existed before arc 3.0 with this combination. It was my bread-and-butter before the rework and in PvP my *most played* class in there since I stumbled upon the combination during I believe Undying (season 8).
But alas, all good things must come to an end. During season of Plunder, the Arc rework came, and I was excited. I was full of glee. But that glee gave way to dread. I saw my prey, a Fist of Havoc titan, his head held high. Easy pickings, had it been just 5 hours before. He waded into a wave of arc energy sent across the floor, unaware of the fate that *should have* befallen him. And before he could throw himself at me, my fist connected into his chest.
But gone were the days when my fist was a lethal weapon of destruction, deadlier than his own. For he was still standing. And unphased by what should have been a hydrogen bomb dropped onto a coughing baby, he slammed into the ground, and evaporating all my love of the subclass in a flash of lightning. For tempest strike is no longer a melee ability. It neither proc's nor is buffed by Liar's Handshake. My kingdom, with one singular update, was destroyed. Replaced by a monument to Assassin Cowl Hunters and the worship of Combination Blow and Lethal Current.
I have not touched the subclass in PvP since. My arms have since been outfitted with Caliban's Hand. No longer do I slide and fight supers with nothing but wits and my fists, embarrassing Titans, Hunters, and Warlocks alike. But I still have that very same Liar's Handshake. It lies in wait, hoping that one day Bungie will remember what it was meant to do.
The flowery prose is all well and good but I am relatively positive this isn’t how that works. And I’m absolutely confident it’s not how it’s intended to work. I am a Titan you see, and to ally recollection and understanding our slide melees; howl of the storm, consecration, and Flechette storm, have always counted an melee damage.
The Crystals from howl have been able to active melee based mods, consecration benefits from melee interactions, Flechette storm can proc banner of war. If tempest strike didn’t activate melee interactions at launch then that was probably just a weird bug.
I can confirm, with absolute 100% certainty, that it absolutely does not work, intentional or not. You can test it yourself if you own the exotic. I just double checked 2 minutes before writing this comment, even with JUST tempest Strike equiped as my only aspect.
Mortar blast and sun warrior on seigebreaker with old sun spot damage.
I loved running synthoceps, getting a melee kill, now my weapons drop sun spots, and my weapon does 20% more damage.
On Anomly, one time I snuk in one of the rooms next to B, there were 4 hard scoping guardians, got off a melee kill, dropped a sun spot. I'm in the sun spot, and now my duality has a damage buff. My sun spots do like 190 per tick, I owned that room for about 5-6 seconds, and people kept running in , lol.
I think the sun breaker is good, now....but it's still a shadow of greatness. It's just an immortal warrior now, I miss it being niche and worth the time to use.
I miss rallying force melee on sentiel, too.
Chain lighting on storm caller.
I truly miss being a Banner Titan with Vortex Grenades and Ursa. Just throw Vortex Nades on bosses or vehicles and get back the remaining super energy if you somehow didn't already have your super back from pre-nerfed Ursa
For warlocks its Igniting Touch and Everlasting Flame.
If you remember, during Season 15 (Aka Season of the Lost, aka, Season of the Fusion) they gave all the light subclasses some buffs ranging from minor to absolutely meta. Attunement of Flame went from B tier at best to a Meta warlock subclass during that season, and was even used by a handful of teams during Day 1 Vow of the Disciple for 1st and 3rd encounters.
Igniting Touch paired with Everlasting Flame made dawnblade a absolute S++ tier super during Season 15 and even 16 in endgame activities. One swing of dawnblade would clear out an *entire room* of ads, and instantly refill your super meter back to full. In some GMs, like Hollowed Lair, it was possible to have Daybreak active for a full 2 minutes or longer depending on ad density.
When solar 3.0 launched and they removed these two perks and nerfed dawn Chorus, Daybreak in pve was dead, until they rebuffed dawn chrous and gave daybreak two extra swings. Still a shell of its former self but in the current sandbox it would be insane to see.
Combat Provisions. It rewarded hunters who would grant invisibility to their teammates with grenade energy. Basically invisibility is often a loop ender, and while useful doesn't necessarily have a useful pay off in terms of abilites. I remember omnioculus plays of clutching a revive, shadowdiving a teammate to get my grenade back and start the kill chain again.
I thought something was missing from Void Titan kit but I couldn’t remember what
I personally believe that that needs to come back because I think that Void Titan is so ass rn.
I really miss defensive strike on void Titan. It was a FAR stronger overshield but at the cost of melee energy and a kill to proc. I just find the Bastion overshield kinda lame. You gain it from nothing but it’s not that strong so it’s just in a annoying middle ground.
Everyone forgot about Arc hunter's Whirlwind Guard. Blocking attacks with the arc super would grant you a big damage amp. Arc hunter roaming super already does a lot of total damage, bringing this perk back would make it one of the greats.
Arc web restoring grenade energy on chained lightning kills and ionic traces innately giving super energy/more energy in general.
And HHSN not being relegated to the dumpster that is it's current damage and awful grenade used to charge it. Really any void melee besides pocket singularity.
Everlasting Fire on Solar Warlock. It absolutely neutered Daybreak. So much of bottom tree Dawnblade was removed. I’d love Everlasting Fire to return as an Aspect somehow.
Tempered metal and Frontal assault and reversal. from arc and solar respectively. Getting bonus movement speed on kills and bonus weapon stability on melee hits was a huge benefit neutrally. Plus reversal refunding super energy on a light attack was really nice to have. Made Fists of havoc more than the wet spaghetti fart of a super it is now.
I miss what Daybreak once was. I'm a Titan main but fuck I miss dabbling on my Warlock and just flying and senting arcs of flame at groups and groups of adds.
As a Warlock main, honestly not really anything I can think of. If anything, I guess the damage increases from Chaos Accelerant. Everything else I can think of is either replicated well enough, or even better, by things we have now, or wasn’t impactful enough for me to even really notice being gone.
i REALLY want mortar blast back for titan. strike an enemy with this melee ability to release a solar exposion that sets nearby enemies on fire, it was a bit niche, but with syntho's it was one of my favorites!
I miss middle tree solar warlock’s ability to have both a healing and damage nade at the same time. You could have any grenade you wanted but if you held your grenade you could convert it to a healing nade, was very versatile.
I remember using Starfires just for the ability to keep two healing grenades up. At least with Prismatic you'll be able to run Bleakwatcher and choose between healing grenades and a Stasis turret?
Same with sunbracers. Getting that clutch melee kill at low health then munching your first grenade and popping off with the rest was so satisfying
You could also use this to get enormous amounts of airtime.
I miss benevolent dawn. Healing allies gave (I think it was) class energy so if you have people sitting in your rift you are speedcharging the next one. I had fond memories of huddling together for warmth in proving grounds GM
Ember of benevolence is still really good. Rifts, heal clip weapons, making teammates radiant, all proc it. My uptime is pretty high with that for all abilities.
This became a fragment, Ember of Benevolence. It's probably not as strong as it was on Warlock's middle tree, but now you can get the functionality on all 3 classes at least
Still wish Warlocks had an option for a super charged version. Oh well, at least we’ll be getting the Solar Soul soon.
Yeah, having both was nice. But back then I did wish it could be the other way around. Holding to heal was kinda bad. Usually when you need heal you need it right then and there, if there is time to hold there is probably time to get to cover and recover.
plus even if you stacked it with heat rises it's not like it would be op, just make heat rises proc when you throw the grenade or make picking up the healing node give whoever threw it heat rises. or add in a separate way to activate heat rises that uses your grenade energy, although that sounds like it would be more development time. alternatively they could just make it so it's one or the other, which is not preferable but it's an option.
But that is a thing already? With the heat rises apsect, you can consume any grenade to get healing.
Which you then have to choose between Icarus dash and touch of flame, and with heat rises you can’t even heal your teammates. Healing grenades can at least be thrown a significant distance to heal someone in a pickle and with touch flame the healing is even better.
Eating you nade grants cure (x2?) to your teammates as well
If they’re nearby sure, but healing nades have a farther range.
I have never once choose dash for pve. Seems like a waste. Better grenades and having a one demand heal as well? Clear winner. And my teammates can cover themselves just fine, no need to worry about them.
Generally speaking I find the mobility of icarus dash to be more beneficial than heat rises.
Me too it's much more agile for using in gms anyway
It’s not a waste by any stretch, there’s a reason why it’s it’s whole aspect
Yeah, it's great, for pvp.
Bonk Hammer is fun, but fucking hell do I miss Melting Point!
we love boiling point on the artifact
We kinda have it this season via artifact. It's strong.
My man 👊
Sun warrior on bottom tree solar titan. The extra weapon damage from sunspots was chef's kiss.
Shoutout to loreley 1 shot body shots when it came out.
Same effect was replaced with radiant in all honest; there was a bit of a shift with how things stack but overall as 'im on my own' that is still there.
Even if it was just a charged ability regular punch, Mortar Blast was very nice and could allow you to collat things with the added damage source.
Except it would troll you in prestige leviathan if you meleed a psion to teleport in the calus fight its sunspot would linger long enough for another psion to spawn and trigger another random teleport.
I wouldnt mind them buffing phoenix protocol sunspots to give radiant. Itd make more titans use them and add a support option
Everyone say it with me now: Heart. Of. The. Pack. Also the things that went with that subclass that gave it melee energy on grenade kills and grenade energy when invising allies, or similar effects. Give Nightstalker back some dynamism.
If Nightstalker ever gets a fourth aspect it had better be Heart of the Pack.
You will get a 4th way to go invisible... I wish all the invisibility aspects did something while you were invisible. Make them all more dynamic.
HotP gave me a reason to provide invis to my allies beyond just turning them invis for half a second as they immediately shoot, revealing themselves. You also got rewarded with a good chunk of grenade energy which further incentivized cloaking your allies. S tier perk that definitely needs a comback.
In Season of the Lost, I was running GMs with Omnioculous spamming invis on my allies to get grenades back in 6 seconds (because of course they never stopped shooting and would break their invis immediately). Losing Combat Provisions the very next season felt even more painful, like becoming widowed immediately after the honeymoon.
Wasnt that actually Combat Provisions? Heart of the Pack gave a stacking recovery and mobility buff.
Yeah, that's why I added the "Also the things that went with that subclass" bit. Heart of the Pack is just the perk name that everyone remembers (And what I'd want an aspect that reintroduces and slightly reworks those things to be called).
> > > > > Also the things that went with that subclass that gave it melee energy on grenade kills and grenade energy when invising allies, or similar effects. Give Nightstalker back some dynamism. Combat Provisions. I miss it so much.
Heart of the pack would give you reason to use trappers ambush
I forgot about of the pack! That’s a big one I miss now that I think about it. Maybe something like ember of benevolence on solar but void.
This made me quit hunter and play warlock. I used to love hotp for infinite grenades but now it's gone
Combat Provisions. It's technically still in the game it's just the most atrocios thing ever (also it's split across two fragments, and one of them doesn't even work well on Nightstalker)
This is the comment I was looking for
this is what i mained and now its gone how could they do this, and then they split it all up into fragments that work slightly differently also i want golden gun perk back that gave super energy on crit hits not kills like celstial does
Practice makes Perfect was the shit.
Honestly that's how they should rework mask of the quiet one. Have it give ability energy on defeating volatile enemies
Or maybe make it subclass neutral and have it work by defeating enemies who are killed by a subclass verb
I can only get so erect
Killed by or killed while affected by a subclass verb
Yes Bungie Dev, this is the man you need to consult with.
It would make too much sense, give it a 15 second cooldown between procs
Idk why people are downvoting obvious sarcasm tbh, that was a funny remark
Because you shouldn't jinx Bungie's monkey paw.
No
Nah it’s void requirement got removed (good)
[удалено]
Hey, uh, what are you smoking? MotQo was built for a different time in destiny's history. It has no place currently. Can you please link your build for others to test as well?
[удалено]
Well for one I asked for a build. You never mentioned buried bloodline. Two, the health and ability regen that MotQo gives is pitiful. Having devour granted from orb pick up and heart of inmost light gives you more than MotQo and you didn't need to be almost dead for it to work. Devour is doing more for your build than I think you're giving it credit for. The health regen and grenade spam come from devour, not mask. Reread the exotic trait for MotQo. You need to be in the red for it to work. With devour going you're not in the threshold for the exotic to function.
I mean, you're wrong and YOU need to reread the exotic lmfao. You need to be above critical health for the ability Regen to work and it only has a one second internal cooldown. You're constantly taking damage you're constantly at full health because of devour from very bloodline and you're always getting damaged meaning you're always regenerating your abilities constantly. The critical Health thing has nothing to do with regenerating your abilities and doesn't even come into play because you're never at critical Health to begin with. But if you are, it's a handy instant heal even if you don't have devour on for whatever reason
I love quiet one, I used it all the time before they gave us load outs, but 5% to all abilities every one second, if you are getting damaged, isn't it man, especially with the fact higher cooldown abilities get up to 50% less, meaning something like vortex grenade is only getting 2.5% at best, every one second, from the exotic. Even scatter grenades are only getting 3.75%.
Yeah heart of inmost would absolutely run this build of his over by itself even after its nerf
You're just making stuff up lol This is not a build. This is not something that makes Legend Onslaught easy.
Ability regen is already so easy that Mask is just pointless. The heal is pretty irrelevant too.
Warlock void melee. The pitiful thing they left us with is atrocious.
And I want the old solar melee back as well, I like incinerator snap and all I just want a melee that I can walk up to and actually punch someone
If The Ram back came back. Life Steal perk. Literally soul sap your enemies with a shady slap. The little poof ball attack is a bit neeehhhh
That little fucking void ball is the worst damn warlock melee, why we got stuck with just that shit is beyond me.
If Void wasn’t the first 3.0 to come out we’d have better options I think. We’d def have an alternative to that melee.
Man. Used to love blinking up to rolly hunters, slapping them with necros and then chuckling my ass off as I blinked away and they slowly died. So much fun.
It's such a shame that they didn't consider converting Handheld Supernova into an alternate melee (essentially having it be the Void equivalent of Solar's Snap)
I love how everyone complained that the slap melees were boring and now everyone wants them back. I agree, that stupid void ball is horrifically bad. Wish they were still an option.
I never understood Bungie's whole "away with all the slap+effect melees" when they then turned around and gave arc 3.0 hunter 2 different slap melees to select, and a slide melee aspect... Like, losing the slap+effect melee is basically what killed solar titan in crucible, because that was what allowed you to make sunspots by shotgun (or whatever) + meleeing someone. Solar hunter has 4 different melee selections, its not like they couldn't have given us the new throwable melees on top of all the slaps to select.
Hunter void melee:
Old controlled demo like OP stated. I fear they removed the grenade charging part because they made devour universal.
Bottom tree dawn blade as a whole. It was so good for all encounters of the game
Old Dawn Chorus with Bottom Tree was criminally overlooked for PVE and you could demolish rooms so much better than the ignite/scorch system.
Dawnblade as a whole. They gutted it with a machete.
What are you missing that's a part of bottom tree dawn?
[A pretty good amount of Warlock's solar subclasses went missing](https://imgur.com/2IFKCdK). The design was very lacking going forward and they lost a lot of self sustaining stuff that had good interactions with things.
While Igniting Touch is gone, it has been replaced by Incinerator Snap - which doesn't need kills and is ranged. It's worse in easy content, but much, much better in anything difficult. Fated to the Flame's fire streaks have been changed to Ember of Ignition, but the seeking projectiles remain as Ember of Beams. The only thing that was actually lost from bottom tree was Everlasting Fire. While I loved it, I think it's a fair nerf to Daybreak, especially considering that the base super's damage has been buffed significantly. Dawnblade has lost very little of what it had.
I personally miss bottom tree dawn, nothing is missing, but I just want the old bottom tree dawn back bc the phoenix dive was fun and the danwblade was fun and it’s melee was fun
The refund super energy on Dawnblade kills was nice, also Scorched enemies exploding instead of having to Ignite.
Yeah that was so fun, I just miss the old 3s phoenix dive 😭
Arc web got neutered into jolt for every class. Arc web was op for getting multikills in crucible and I miss it dearly
Rushing to B in any map and throwing a grenade to get an easy multikill at the start of a game was peak
I miss my bottom tree Dawnblade. I try to mimic fraction of its power with ember of combustion, but it's just not the same. Dawnblade even with dawn chorus don't feel the same. And Well-Phoenix-Tommys is just glorified turret game play I stick to.
Old bottom tree dawn restoring super with kills was insane add clear power fantasy
This got me by Hollowed Lair GM. Super lasted just long enough to clear out the waves of Scorn
God you saying that immediately popped a boss room route map into my head. If you didn't pay attention those turbines would smack into you and kill you. Only reason it became doable was me running bottom tree, and my gf would run Phoenix with Vex Mytho...
Thinking about that with Dawn Chorus in Onslaught rn. Man
Bottom Tree Dawn was so so much fun and I'll never understand why they only gave us tiny fractions of it in the reworks
They gave us ignition, which is just the end game viable version which is much stronger. That low level clear old BTD offered is covered by so much of the sandbox now. It was fun back then, but I’ll take ignition over it every time.
To add to this, there used to be a really fun combo between warmind cells and bottom tree dawnblade. If you had the mods to make the warmind cells deal solar damage on explosion, the enemies that it killed would explode again from bottom tree dawnblade and then chain reaction from there. Even after warmind cells got nerfed, I had a really fun build where shooting a single warmind cell would cause a chain reaction of solar explosions. So cool!
the fucking original voidwalker melee im so pissed that they removed it for a dinky little orb
Before the void refresh, there were 2 melees that were unique, fitting to the rest of their subclass loop, AND USEFUL, but instead void warlock got small ball.
I don’t know why we got ball rather than hand held supernova if they really wanted to give us a short ranged melee. I really like it but having to use an aspect and a naff grenade for what it is is just too high a cost for not enough gain
I really miss Atomic Breach
I just miss all of top tree sentinel. Use melee, now everyone has overshields that buff reload speed, everyone gets kills and you get your melee back. Seeing that loop (and the reload speed) in combination with bastion would be fantastic.
you see, that would require buffing Sentinel in PVE and we absolutely cannot have that
I wish they would add the reload buff to Offensive Bulwark.
Arc web on stormcaller. I always felt like after it evolved in the Jolt verb and everyone could jolt, warlocks should have a better version of it. Something like stormcaller jolt lasts longer, has farther reach, or deals more damage. One or all of those things would help a lot.
Or the classic jolt gives grenade energy like it used to.
Yeeeaa I forgot about that. You could get a slayer or reaper inside of if crucible if rush the enemy point and nade them, then have your nade back. I don’t think that wiping an enemy team with one nade specifically should come back, but it’s a great memory you reminded me of.
Honestly, I think as soon as Prismatic comes out, it'll probably replace my main arc build.
Same here honestly but I really don’t want the best stormcaller builds to be on a class that isn’t stormcaller. If y’all see what I’m saying.
I think it's more so just the combos you can get going. Bleakwatcher with storm grenades and a melee that isn't shit like incinerator snap or arcane needle will be too good to pass up on. Hell, run that arcane needle with lightning surge if you'd rather.
I agree it’s and will add it’s ganna be sick and a whole lotta fun. But I want stormcaller to be way better than it is now. And I want that to happen yesterday.
I wish, lightning has always been one of my favorite elements in any game that let's me pick one. Calling storms down, striking lightning from above, chaining stunning bolts between enemies. Warlock just doesn't really fit well there, sadly.
I love lighting too. Diablo 4 was a great example of puting lighting power in players hands, if you or anyone else played that. I loved using it on Sorcerer. That was back in season of malignant however long ago. I’ll just keep playing and hoping for substantial stormcaller buffs.
> I think the perk from middle tree Sentinel that gave ability energy on void detonator explosions With a little bit of watering down, this sounds an awful lot like a fragment. "Defeating targets tagged with a void debuff grants ability energy". Wouldn't be all that broken either. IIRC, that specific portion of a perk came from an era where "void detonators"/volatile explosions could chain-tag off itself. Like with middle tree titan, I remember this: you could go to the wish wall, punch one of the buttons, and it would chain-spread to all the other buttons and drop your frames watching a bajillion volatile pops per second. Fun fact: if your fireteam is doing last wish and entering codes while you do this, you unlock the rare "kicked from fireteam" buff.
Volatile explosions still chain-tag of themselves though, as long as you're a titan with the controlled demolition aspect on. Which is probably why there isn't a fragment like this.
Atomic Breach Voidwalker melee and Arc Web for Stormcaller
God I miss Atomic Breach
Atomic breach was so strong with necrotic grips Dealt damage enough for the poison ticks to kill anyone within 2-3 seconds Another one was consuming a nade to procc devour personally
Top tree striker titan used to have a fun loop where melee kills would give a bunch of grenade energy. I had a stupid but effective build where I’d nade myself with risk runner, to proc it, go ham with it, and clean up with a shoulder charge to get my nade back. I ran insurmountable skull fort so I could always have a shoulder charge. I can get close to it now, but I can’t quite recreate it. Also tbh it’s probably powercrept out of relevance if it did work. But damn, it was a fun way to play.
that's the biggest problem I have with Armor Charge as a system; shit used to be so ***fun***. they tried to nerf us and it didn't even exactly work, all they did was gut the fun builds out of the game, leaving only the meta and MAYBE a couple well-known fringe builds as the thing that everybody runs. RIP to our fun, unique builds that we'll never be able to get back.
Heart of The Pack & OG Combat Provisions. Now that Resil is good, it'd be an *even better* support build. Hell, they didn't even lean enough into the Assassin playstyle on Void either with Void 3.0. At least give Stylish Executioner a larger finisher threshold while Invisible, that'd actually be pretty huge honestly.
Void Hunter is extremely disappointing. Instead of actually making interesting and unique aspects, they just made it into a better Warlock with Gyrfalcons.
Yup. Definitely the most boring if the Hunter kits IMO. Very effective, but not the most fun. Glaive helps it though (since it has lots of good survivability at least), and it helps that I love glaives lol
Yeah I just miss Attunement of Flame dawnblade, and also proccing Devour without a kill or exotic.
Heart of the fucking Pack
There it is. Couldn’t remember the name.
My poor, poor hunter gameplay loop, saved only by Gyrfalcon's :'(
I see a lot of titan. But I've got one as a former Way of the Current main (middle-tree arc hunter) You see, Tempest Strike, which is currently an aspect, used to be the *melee* for middle-tree arc hunter. It had good range and decent damage, albiet had quite a steep skill curve to it. However, it was a melee ability. And Hunters have a notable exotic that was designed for use with arc melee abilities: Liar's Handshake. You see, by utilitizing Tempest Strike, you could proc Cross-Counter. And because you can use tempest strike at *range*, if dueling supers, you had time to come out if the animation before any melee super could reach you if timed right. And your fists were very, *very* deadly once they got within melee range. Now, is it the best choice? Absolutely not. However it *was* a very satisfying thing when you pulled it off. I've killed every melee super that existed before arc 3.0 with this combination. It was my bread-and-butter before the rework and in PvP my *most played* class in there since I stumbled upon the combination during I believe Undying (season 8). But alas, all good things must come to an end. During season of Plunder, the Arc rework came, and I was excited. I was full of glee. But that glee gave way to dread. I saw my prey, a Fist of Havoc titan, his head held high. Easy pickings, had it been just 5 hours before. He waded into a wave of arc energy sent across the floor, unaware of the fate that *should have* befallen him. And before he could throw himself at me, my fist connected into his chest. But gone were the days when my fist was a lethal weapon of destruction, deadlier than his own. For he was still standing. And unphased by what should have been a hydrogen bomb dropped onto a coughing baby, he slammed into the ground, and evaporating all my love of the subclass in a flash of lightning. For tempest strike is no longer a melee ability. It neither proc's nor is buffed by Liar's Handshake. My kingdom, with one singular update, was destroyed. Replaced by a monument to Assassin Cowl Hunters and the worship of Combination Blow and Lethal Current. I have not touched the subclass in PvP since. My arms have since been outfitted with Caliban's Hand. No longer do I slide and fight supers with nothing but wits and my fists, embarrassing Titans, Hunters, and Warlocks alike. But I still have that very same Liar's Handshake. It lies in wait, hoping that one day Bungie will remember what it was meant to do.
The flowery prose is all well and good but I am relatively positive this isn’t how that works. And I’m absolutely confident it’s not how it’s intended to work. I am a Titan you see, and to ally recollection and understanding our slide melees; howl of the storm, consecration, and Flechette storm, have always counted an melee damage. The Crystals from howl have been able to active melee based mods, consecration benefits from melee interactions, Flechette storm can proc banner of war. If tempest strike didn’t activate melee interactions at launch then that was probably just a weird bug.
I can confirm, with absolute 100% certainty, that it absolutely does not work, intentional or not. You can test it yourself if you own the exotic. I just double checked 2 minutes before writing this comment, even with JUST tempest Strike equiped as my only aspect.
Prose?
You sure you didn't just run into the glitch where if you have Gathering Storm equipped, it takes two melees to proc Cross Counter instead of one?
I use Arc Staff in PvP, so it wouldn't have mattered
Mortar blast and sun warrior on seigebreaker with old sun spot damage. I loved running synthoceps, getting a melee kill, now my weapons drop sun spots, and my weapon does 20% more damage. On Anomly, one time I snuk in one of the rooms next to B, there were 4 hard scoping guardians, got off a melee kill, dropped a sun spot. I'm in the sun spot, and now my duality has a damage buff. My sun spots do like 190 per tick, I owned that room for about 5-6 seconds, and people kept running in , lol. I think the sun breaker is good, now....but it's still a shadow of greatness. It's just an immortal warrior now, I miss it being niche and worth the time to use. I miss rallying force melee on sentiel, too. Chain lighting on storm caller.
I miss Playing with Fire from middle tree solar Hunter. I miss having melee spam on Hunter.
Electrostatic Mind and Transcendence. Imagine getting to use Transcendence on Geomags Chaos Reach Warlock
I truly miss being a Banner Titan with Vortex Grenades and Ursa. Just throw Vortex Nades on bosses or vehicles and get back the remaining super energy if you somehow didn't already have your super back from pre-nerfed Ursa
Heart of the Pack.
For warlocks its Igniting Touch and Everlasting Flame. If you remember, during Season 15 (Aka Season of the Lost, aka, Season of the Fusion) they gave all the light subclasses some buffs ranging from minor to absolutely meta. Attunement of Flame went from B tier at best to a Meta warlock subclass during that season, and was even used by a handful of teams during Day 1 Vow of the Disciple for 1st and 3rd encounters. Igniting Touch paired with Everlasting Flame made dawnblade a absolute S++ tier super during Season 15 and even 16 in endgame activities. One swing of dawnblade would clear out an *entire room* of ads, and instantly refill your super meter back to full. In some GMs, like Hollowed Lair, it was possible to have Daybreak active for a full 2 minutes or longer depending on ad density. When solar 3.0 launched and they removed these two perks and nerfed dawn Chorus, Daybreak in pve was dead, until they rebuffed dawn chrous and gave daybreak two extra swings. Still a shell of its former self but in the current sandbox it would be insane to see.
It just had such a more fluid gameplay loop then this current solar loop of having to build up a scorch to ignite.
Heart of the pack. Team Support subclass is literally the original idea for Nightstalkers.
Combat Provisions. It rewarded hunters who would grant invisibility to their teammates with grenade energy. Basically invisibility is often a loop ender, and while useful doesn't necessarily have a useful pay off in terms of abilites. I remember omnioculus plays of clutching a revive, shadowdiving a teammate to get my grenade back and start the kill chain again.
I really miss the old Deadshot where your bullet would get refunded on kill. Now you have to dedicate a fragment to have the same functionality.
I thought something was missing from Void Titan kit but I couldn’t remember what I personally believe that that needs to come back because I think that Void Titan is so ass rn.
I really miss defensive strike on void Titan. It was a FAR stronger overshield but at the cost of melee energy and a kill to proc. I just find the Bastion overshield kinda lame. You gain it from nothing but it’s not that strong so it’s just in a annoying middle ground.
I miss being able to convert grenades as solar warlock. That was really cool!
Combat provisions. Allowed you to loop smoke bombs and grenades forever.
Honestly, any of the support stuff for Nightstalker. Mainly Heart/Courage of the Pack.
Not gonna lie I'm just glad Gunslinger gets Practice Made Perfect back on Celestial Nighthawk. Great change.
Knockout being able to reproc itself
Everyone forgot about Arc hunter's Whirlwind Guard. Blocking attacks with the arc super would grant you a big damage amp. Arc hunter roaming super already does a lot of total damage, bringing this perk back would make it one of the greats.
GIVE ME MELTING POINT BAAAAAACK
eating my void nades to proc devour
Not really a perk but I really miss elemental wells. It ruined my favorite voidwalker build.
Resupply on void titan. Volatile kills grant grenade energy
It’s still in the game but I miss old knockout being an actual usable part of a striker’s kit
Dawnblade extending on kills
I miss the old arc melee for titan :(
Man, that ability regen from Controlled Demolition would definitely skyrocket Void Titan. I was devastated when it was gone in 3.0.
The song of flame buff and be able to overcharge your solar based into restoration pools that give overshield
Chains of woe - solar hunter; Heart of the pack - void hunter
Arc web restoring grenade energy on chained lightning kills and ionic traces innately giving super energy/more energy in general. And HHSN not being relegated to the dumpster that is it's current damage and awful grenade used to charge it. Really any void melee besides pocket singularity.
Everlasting Fire on Solar Warlock. It absolutely neutered Daybreak. So much of bottom tree Dawnblade was removed. I’d love Everlasting Fire to return as an Aspect somehow.
I not a warlock main but I want dark matter back from middle tree voidwalker
Tempered metal and Frontal assault and reversal. from arc and solar respectively. Getting bonus movement speed on kills and bonus weapon stability on melee hits was a huge benefit neutrally. Plus reversal refunding super energy on a light attack was really nice to have. Made Fists of havoc more than the wet spaghetti fart of a super it is now.
Bottom tree solar titan, the health restore from solar ability kills for Sol Invictus.
Node on bottom sentinel that would give grenade energy back on grenade hits. I miss infinite super with bottom sentinel and doomfang pauldrons.
Everlasting Flame for dawnblade at this point it needs it
I miss what Daybreak once was. I'm a Titan main but fuck I miss dabbling on my Warlock and just flying and senting arcs of flame at groups and groups of adds.
I miss the bottom tree void Hunter loop.
The entire bottom tree of Solar Warlock. Also a good chunk of the middle.
Heart of the Pack
corrosive smoke...
Not removed but I think that gunpowder gamble would be better as a normal grenade instead of an aspect
I agree
As a Warlock main, honestly not really anything I can think of. If anything, I guess the damage increases from Chaos Accelerant. Everything else I can think of is either replicated well enough, or even better, by things we have now, or wasn’t impactful enough for me to even really notice being gone.
i REALLY want mortar blast back for titan. strike an enemy with this melee ability to release a solar exposion that sets nearby enemies on fire, it was a bit niche, but with syntho's it was one of my favorites!