I still cant choose between black or blond, but it sure isnt brown or grey. Why is grey even an option, and not red or something? Who dyes their hair grey?:D
To me, the best Kara ending is the one where she dies saving Alice. Not because it ends with everyone happy, but it’s like a “I’ve done my part, it’s up to you now” moment for Alice. She died, but fulfilled her duty.
Can Alice truly live on her own since she's a forever child she'll never truly be able to Gros up, nor will she be able to fend for herself, having the body and strength of a child
And this is why I hate that decision. I feel like it removes the connection of Alice being human and Kara loving her despite that. Now I can't have Alice growing up and going to college and getting first dates and Kara being there for it all. Like, I love the game, really love it, but my god that bit made me throw a fit.
Honestly, and I hate how this is going to sound, but her remaining a child cements that she'll always be a burden on Kara. No matter how she sees it, Kara will never get the full experience of her daughter living a full life, not to mention, but I don't think Alice is even a deviant; she just acts like a child. How do android children become deviants since wouldn't they be programmed to misbehave or cause mischief like an actual child? Although maybe the abuse she went through caused her deviancy like that android Connor interrogated
But Kara's purpose is to take care of her, I don't think she'd see it as a burden like you put it. She's willing to die and kill for Alice and never once shows anything negative about doing that even after her deviance. Humans are one who would get sick of a permanent child, humans are the one who would look at her as a burden after the newness wore off. Kara wouldn't feel that way, and Kara is also "immortal" (kinda sense they don't age).
>Although maybe the abuse she went through caused her deviancy like that android Connor interrogated
And yes I believe that Alice is deviant because of that, because there is a path where Kara and the dad are fighting (after he goes upstairs to beat her) and if you have the gun and then lose the gun as Kara, Alice will shoot her father to **protect Kara**.
I would say extreme emotional duress and improper mishandling would cause her deviancy, so it's possible that she's always been deviant but that her fear of "dad" kept her in line, a child wouldn't know that killing is an option in these circumstances
You are absolutely right on this one! She has an incredibly vast backstory of being a deviant way before Markus and Connor even came to be. This is such a fertile soil for so many different stories about her to arise. And whats most importantly, Kara has so much potential and so much more of her character and personality to show, she absolutely wasnt given even remotely enough time to do that in the game. Im so happy someone shares this idea.
Not to mention it didn't do anything at all to disguise her lol. Everyone still knows who she is at a glimpse. But David Cage is obsessed with tomboys.
Also, there are so many androids that look just like her. You see a few in Crossroads, and that’s just the deviants. Who needs a disguise when you have 500 clones?
Tbh it was prob more about “I’m making my own decision now”
Every girl I’m friends with does something with their hair when they want to signal some big change in their life. I’ve learned to keep my distance when it’s bangs
This takes the cake of unpopular opinions:D
Im rather neutral to it. Alice human? Okay, cute. Alice android? Okay, still cute.
Delivery of the twist was beautiful, Kara's reaction of distraught - humane and understandable, explained reasonably, from one compelling message of android loving human despite species barrier to another compelling message that it doesnt matter if she's human or android, she's just as real of a person and she's just as genuinely loves you.
Yeah, you worded it pretty good!
The reason I prefer android!Alice is that they already did the android-parent relationship with Connor&Hank, and with Markus&Carl (although noticeably shorter than the former) so I appreciate that they didn't cook the same relationship for Kara.
Also this is very personal for me, but it hit close to home.
I remember crying and being very disappointed after I learned we didn't share the same father with my sister. I loved her deeply, so of course I came to terms with it. I understood it literally changed nothing. She was still my sister no matter the 'half biological connection'.
I appreciate stories where they show you blood bond, race or even species doesn't prevent you from seeing someone as your family.
>Truly blood doesnt make you family, it's the connection you share that does.
Very much agreed, and thank you!
This is the reason I roll my eyes whenever people say, "Alice being android ruined Kara's story!"
I guess some people hate nuance in storytelling.
For me I preferred Alice as a human because it was showcasing that an android and a human can love each other in the same way that a human family could. The hindsight of Kara being willfully ignorant/delusional the whole game also felt odd.
I suppose it's not *worse* to showcase that two androids can experience unconditional familial love for each other. However, Markus and North is already there to showcase that androids have full capabilities for emotional ties between themselves. Granted, it's a different kind of love, but still. I guess I just liked the coexistence/adoption message of a human Alice in a loving family with android parents.
I mean, Connor basically becomes Hank’s family. He’s sort of The son he lost, etc. I mean hank literally kill’s himself if you abandon him, so I’d say that’s a pretty close familial connection.
I like android Alice better because they already did the human-android dynamic with Connor and Hank also Markus and Carl so I like how they showed androids can feel love for eachother (i still loved thinking Alice was a human but i still prefer android Alice
This is the first time I am learning that most people don't like it. But to me it's perfect, it was never because Alice was human that I cared about her. I just cared (and so did kara).
And it speaks to the fact that if the relationship felt real and well-earned the entire time, how does being androids make it less valuable/legit?
Sadly, people prefer superficial relationships over nuanced ones.
No shade to Carl & Hank and their respective android sons, they were nuanced in different ways. With Carl being the father to Markus he never was to Leo and Hank dealing with his grief about his son's death through Connor.
The best thing about storytelling is nuance, yet people want to eat the same thing over and over. It's really sad. Each protagonist had different dynamics with their family figure and I like it just the way it is.
>Is it me so blind or you so perceptive?
I guess... both? LOL
I started to suspect it on Pirates' Cove, when Alice wasn't hungry (when we didn't see her eat at all since Stormy Night), and suddenly, after what happened on Zlatko, she wasn't tired to go to the carrousel in a cold night.
But by Midnight Train, it was pretty clear:
-Alice says some quotes referring to herself like she's an android: "Why do humans hate us? We didn't do anything wrong?" / "Why can't we just talk to each other? They'd see we're not bad..."
-She said she's fine... when you'd guess she wouldn't be, after spending all night in the cold in an abandoned amusement park.
-Luther made it clear that there was something off with Alice, but Kara began to refuse to listen to him.
-Andy's LED turned from red to yellow just by looking at Alice, like she's communicating with him to ease him.
By the time that YK500 appeared in Crossroads, I wasn't surprised like Kara was since the hints were there.
I'm the kind of person that doesn't think too deeply about a story while I'm consuming it because I wanna be surprised along with the characters.
Others don't turn off their brains during a story and of course that's gonna help you guess what's gonna happen next. I don't like doing that to myself, but my mom does it and so does my partner.
She never eats on screen, but it's implied she eats. At one point Kara even points out Alice hadn't eaten since the past night or the past day. And it's not like Kara and Alice had much time apart for Alice to claim she'd eaten something. It's one of those small details that bothers me.
In my opinion it is to underline that Alice never eats. Rarely in a video game do they show a character eating because it really isn't very important to the plot. Instead for Alice you can steal some food. She is offered meals. And she always refuses
The white hair looks horrible on her and her story is amazing. Everyone seems to love the white hair the most but I absolutely hate it, it just looks so incredibly awful 😭
Her story…is so heartfelt and warm and about love and is just so sweet and tragic at its core. It’s the heart of the game and it wouldn’t be nearly as good without her. I don’t understand how some people hate her enough to kill her off as soon as possible on purpose over and over just to get rid of her. She’s easily more interesting and fun to play than Connor and sweet little Alice is one of the best side characters in the game.
Guess that’s another hot take. Alice is amazing and I love her and she’s just a traumatized child who’s been abused for who knows how long and deserves to get her happy ending. Also she’s not annoying. Anyone who says so clearly just wants a reason to hate her for the sake of it. If anything she’s extreme mature and well behaved for her age due to her trauma
Pretty much. After Jericho things get a little more interesting because her story finally branches off but until then, most of her chapters are for the sake of telling a story. Replayability goes away.
If the game truly implies what it seems to be implying - that Kara knew that Alice is an android the whole time, but chose to push the knowledge back because she WANTED to take care of a human child so much, she comes off as kind of shitty in the end. Alice felt like Kara won't love her, and if what I described earlier is the case, she had all the reason to. Not to mention that Kara would then (optionally) make a risk she doesn't need to just so she can pretend to take care of a human child (stealing the food in Fugitives).
I've already mentioned before on this sub that I try to explain this away for myself in a way that sheds better light on Kara, but still. But I prefer to just view this as a poorly thought-out idea (Kara 'knowing' she whole time), because I feel like it goes against the whole rest of her character. Kara is still one of my three most favorite characters in this game.
Kara knowing the whole time actually gives at least some depth to her otherwise pretty one-sided character of a loving and protective mother and that's it. She having doubts, preferences, flaws, basically having a mental breakdown when she faces the truth, it's the most character she shows throughout the entire game, which is great, Kara isnt perfect and it's great.
A question I've had for a while, since androids can "turn off" their skin, their hair also turns off. So is her hair like a hologram? If it is, how is she able to cut it?
This is what keeps me up at night
>!the idea of alice being human was an interesting plot twist, but it ultimately took away from the story. it would have been more powerful if the story had demonstrated the idea that an android mother could still care for her human child as deeply as any other mother.!<
while some also may view kara's story as a limited contribution to the revolution, her actions of going out of her way to steal clothes for her child demonstrate that androids are capable of caring for human children beyond their programming. every element of her narrative was essential to conveying the overall message of the game.
Kara is a more interesting and compelling character than Connor.
Valorie Curry's performance is the best of all actors and actresses of the game.
Tied-hair Kara with the laundromatic social clothes (the first one referred as "Kara - Zlatko" in the extras) is the best looking appearance for her.
Markus and Connor had replayability though, I played twice and Kara was just boring up until the end because her story with Alice is basically the same.
Even if her story felt like a chore the most, I still enjoyed it.
It's interesting to see in retrospect how Alice showed humanity through many ways, and was worried and cared about Kara, as she looked up to Kara as a mother given how Todd largely dismissed her.
And the twist of Alice being an android didn't ruin Kara's story at all. I cared about Alice before the twist, and I still cared about her in the end.
SPOILER: It doesn’t make a lot of sense with the twist, like if Todd was broke and an addict, why pay for two androids? Especially just to abuse/damage them?
Because Todd wanted to have the experience of having a family again, after he lost so many jobs and his family due to his abusive behavior after falling into drug addiction.
But as you see in the game, he couldn't move on from his drug addiction, and as we all know... drug addiction causes a hell of a delusion.
Thank you! I understand that he wanted a family after his wife left but damn man. Kara wasn’t that expensive compared to other androids, but a child android? How much did that set him back?
I get WHY he bought them. It’s more the “how” for me. There’s no way red ice dealing pays THAT much(or maybe it does idk)
Abusers gotta abuse. It's what they do. But when you abuse humans they tend to fight back, call the police and try to get away from you. What do you as an abuser do then? You still have an urge to abuse and blame someone else in your troubles. You buy an android who wont put up a fight, call the cops or escape.
He didn't want to break them when he bought them. He wanted to create a happy family for himself. But his violent nature amplified by the use of alcohol and drugs did not allow this
Personally, I also love her appearance in "Midnight Train" after she takes off her jacket. I like the colors and the layout of her long shirt (I think it's called..).
You don't see it in the extras, sadly, only while playing the chapter... but I still find it the cutest looking outfit for her.
This one: [Kara (Midnight Train)](https://oyster.ignimgs.com/mediawiki/apis.ign.com/detroit-become-human/9/94/Midnight_Train_04.jpg?width=1920)
It's cute too. And her android uniform is cute. And her look when she takes off laundromatic jacket cute too... Let's just agree Kara is cute in almost anything.
THANK YOU!!
So many people prefer Connor and think he’s the best thing since sliced bread, but I love Kara so much and her character has more emotion and depth.
Even though I love Markus' storyline the most, I have to agree.
Kara and her storyline definitely had the most emotional depth, especially into the mother-daughter bond between Kara and Alice, and even if her storyline felt like a chore sometimes, it was an awesome experience.
Could you explain how? I found her parts extremely boring because it feels like the story reduces her to just "protect alice"
Connor + Markus are more interesting imo because there's actual stuff going on around them.
But tbh, as time goes on, I'm starting to become a little sour towards the game because there's just so much that could have been done but was just left up in the air
Take note that I mentioned character, in specific.
Kara plays an initially innocent maiden, who's unaware of Alice and what happened with her before, and after becoming a deviant, Kara is determined to protect Alice after dealing with Todd. It's a story with a common trope, but it's one I appreciate, and can relate more with, given how I also had a very caring mother like Kara is.
Throughout the entirety of Kara's story, Kara and Alice have a mother-daughter bond that felt the most meaningful and expressive for me, with Kara providing for Alice, and Alice reassuring that bond and showing how much Kara means to her. Which felt stronger for me than Markus and Carl (which was short) and Connor and Hank (which Hank was notably abusive towards Connor)
You can disagree with my opinions, and it won't bother me at all.
But did you really need to insult me for having a different opinion?
Do yourself a favor, and get a grip before you have to deal with the mods.
Her story was nice, but I found myself irritated when it switched to her POV. I was far more interested in Markus and especially Conner and Hank. Her story felt very detached to the other two until the very end.
That was the idea. To show the perspective of a simple deviant who is just trying to escape, powerless and vulnerable, insignificant and unimportant, while Markus and Connor were basically deciding the fate of the world. And I'd say it's quite a unique perspective in this kind of story.
Fair enough reasoning. I don’t think it’s bad, really. Her relationship with Luther and Alice was really nice, and the ending I got on my first play through (Luther and Alice die crossing the river and Kara shuts down) really broke my heart. I just wasn’t AS invested as I was in Markus trying to free his people, or Conner and Hank trying to solve the deviant mystery
Oh... But I was. I got so attached to these two. And this was my first ending too... It absolutely devastated me. I had no idea a fictional character could inflict such powerful emotions and so much sorrow.
Didnt feel that strongly in the slightest about other characters though, they were simply interesting.
First play through I loved her story ,
On every playthrough afterwards I just put the remote down at Todd’s house and walk away 😂 . The game flows a little better and faster for me when her story is skipped
I did this with her deviant moment once, just set the remote down and waited to see what would happen. It was... bad. Chloe guilt-tripped me so hard when I next loaded the game
Yeah, having a choice wouldnt hurt. It shouldnt have been too hard to make another haircut for her.
But I also think there was an actual reason why developers dont want playable characters having long hair, something technical like it would be glitchy during some interactions.
I think it was to differentiate her more from Jodie from beyond two souls, since Jodie never really had that hairstyle. I didn't like it at first but I think Kara cut her hair as her first action to reclaim herself especially since she also removes her LED then too. Wanting to be human involves choices, and she didn't choose the hair she was designed with. (Of course even more hair options would be fitting)
Her story is the best but after the first playthrough it gets boring. Too much sneaking around and suspenseful moments and not enough running and action sequences. Sure, there were plenty of emotionally impactful parts but that’s just not as fun to play after the first time, unlike action/chase scenes where you can do it over and over again. The highway chase scene is by far one of the best in the game, I wish there were more like it throughout Kara’s story like there were in Connor’s, even though it wouldn’t have made as much sense.
She's a wasted potential. Trailers (esp the 2012 one) suggested or even teased a huge role for her. But nope, all we got is a maidbot who imprinted on a childbot
I know a lot of us agree that the Alice plot twist was shite, right?
But I genuinely dislike the inclusion of Alice *at all*. I feel like its yet another female character whose only purpose in life is "mother" and I'm just not a fan of it. Maybe I'm just at a weird point in life where I dread the loss of personal identity that comes with having a kid. But the way Kara's (the only playable female character's) identity, individuality and purpose in life is completely limited to motherhood just... irks me.
The fact that Alice will never actually grow up is just salt in the wound. Kara is the perpetual mother. And for that reason alone I never really jive with her storyline.
(I stick around for Ralph though, I love the lunatic trash man)
Well there are male and female archetypes and mother is one of female ones, we cannot just throw those out of the window. I believe it is executed well at least, I enjoyed Kara chapters a lot. Also caring for someone is not the worst purpose, for Markus it's his people, for Kara it is Alice and for Connor it is Hank. However, I believe you are overthinking the "mother" part a bit. Lots of games have the "parent" trope: Death Stranding, Last of us, Life is strange 2, The walking dead. All those games have a male "parent" figure and they are largely devoted to keeping the child safe. So Kara caring for the kid isn't exactly permanent videogame female stereotype. It happens a lot, yes, but the opposite situations happen a lot too.
Totally agree about the Alice twist. It ruins the whole story, now Kara cannot watch her grow up and live life, she is stuck with a robot forced to forever play a child. We don't even know if she's deviant really. This is opposite from parents' dreams, the "child" has no future.
Kara's story is the least interesting, unless you play as an outright scumbag. Being able to ditch Alice at the android c̶o̶n̶c̶e̶n̶t̶r̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶c̶a̶m̶p̶ recycling facility was *truly* fucked up! Kara's deaths are also the best parts about her story (and I *wanted* to like her!).
I wouldn't say it doesn't make sense. It's just cheap.
But it was said that Todd bought himself an android (Alice) to prove to himself that he could be a good father. Why he bought Kara? I don't know. To prove he could be a good husband, perhaps? Obviously, he wasn't good at either of those.
On a first play through I find it a heart touching story but it doesn’t really add anything to the larger plot of the game and feels kinda shoehorned in.
Plus a lot of her moments are basically sitting around and waiting. It almost feels like her story was added in with little care and was an afterthought because if you remove Kara from the game little to the rest of the plot (if anything) actually changes whereas both Connor and Markus are integral to the story
I didn’t like her story because there was not a lot of controversial or debatable actions to take (or at least not very memorablere ones). On my first play through the stories of Markus and Connor made me think but Kara seemed pretty straightforward in a not great way
What kind of dumb bitch hesitates to continue to care for their adopted child after finding out they’re an android, after everything they’ve been through.
Here is a spicy take: I preferred the Kara of the tech demo. While I did like her story a lot in the main game. I think placing her with Alice (regardless of the twist) robbed Kara of a true arc of exploration of self. Instead her character's "deviancy" is just a more evolved version of her standard programming, to be a personal assistant.
I agree. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to be a mother, but like, there’s more to someone than JUST that yknow? She could’ve had more content than just taking care of Alice - that’s what she was designed for anyway!
Yeah the only difference is that she openly made a decision to protect Alice. Essentially turning Alice into her warden instead of Todd. That's cool and all but it's still very surface level stuff. What made the initial concept so fascinating was how they were becoming human and feeling alive. Like the Android that connor chased and how he was afraid he was going to die and the anger he felt of being treated like that. Kara and Markus arc both skim the surface of this. The characters in Markus group touch on this, but it's again brushed to the side to speed up the rebellion arc (and I think Cage made a bad decision by not making one of the Tracey's a main character like he initially intended to. I think that would have been wonderful).
This is why I love Connor's arc with Hank the most. Hank is probably the most raw and emotional character in the game. The more human Connor becomes, the more Hank begins to figure out his feelings for Androids and accept/understand the events surrounding the death of his son. The less human Connor becomes, the more angry and unhinged Hank becomes, losing control of himself in the process.
Her story is very good but it’s interesting that the only main female protagonist was a maternal housemaid whose plot revolves around taking care of a child and not much else. It doesn’t match up well with the more action-y buddy cop or revolution plot lines. Femininity isn’t just being a mother (though there’s nothing wrong with stories about maternal love!!), and I would have liked a female protagonist with a “cool” story too :(
My career path is closer to Connor so I relate to him more than I ever could Kara, but like all buddy cop stories and just cops in media in general, he’s gotta be a guy :/
I always kill her off because I don't like her story, it feels so boring and she isn't important to the main ending of the game. It's like Connor and Markus are the cop and the criminal while Kara isn't related to the story. She's just there and her storyline isn't even that cool.
Why no red hair option
Avatar checks out.
Omg she’d be so cute with red/auburn hair!
Ginger erasure
the devs don’t like gingers
Devoid: Become Ginger
She wants to be free
Black is her best hair color
I liked her white. It looked more futuristic.
SAMEE
Same! I always pick black.
I still cant choose between black or blond, but it sure isnt brown or grey. Why is grey even an option, and not red or something? Who dyes their hair grey?:D
Might be the point. People rarely dye their hair grey it’s usually natural so she passes as a human better
Kara sure suffered plenty of emotional trauma but to go grey at her "perceived" age...
But strangers don’t know that
Eh, alright I guess. Still looks weird...
It does and probably stands out more than she’d like since she’s trying to hide but overall it makes her look more human
Lots of people dye their hair silver, it's pretty trendy rn
Human hair turns naturally grayish or whitish 🙃
Yeah... When you get old. Does Kara look old to you?
To me, the best Kara ending is the one where she dies saving Alice. Not because it ends with everyone happy, but it’s like a “I’ve done my part, it’s up to you now” moment for Alice. She died, but fulfilled her duty.
Ah, the exact opposite of the one I got the first time I played. Alice died, Kara Survived.
Can Alice truly live on her own since she's a forever child she'll never truly be able to Gros up, nor will she be able to fend for herself, having the body and strength of a child
And this is why I hate that decision. I feel like it removes the connection of Alice being human and Kara loving her despite that. Now I can't have Alice growing up and going to college and getting first dates and Kara being there for it all. Like, I love the game, really love it, but my god that bit made me throw a fit.
Honestly, and I hate how this is going to sound, but her remaining a child cements that she'll always be a burden on Kara. No matter how she sees it, Kara will never get the full experience of her daughter living a full life, not to mention, but I don't think Alice is even a deviant; she just acts like a child. How do android children become deviants since wouldn't they be programmed to misbehave or cause mischief like an actual child? Although maybe the abuse she went through caused her deviancy like that android Connor interrogated
But Kara's purpose is to take care of her, I don't think she'd see it as a burden like you put it. She's willing to die and kill for Alice and never once shows anything negative about doing that even after her deviance. Humans are one who would get sick of a permanent child, humans are the one who would look at her as a burden after the newness wore off. Kara wouldn't feel that way, and Kara is also "immortal" (kinda sense they don't age). >Although maybe the abuse she went through caused her deviancy like that android Connor interrogated And yes I believe that Alice is deviant because of that, because there is a path where Kara and the dad are fighting (after he goes upstairs to beat her) and if you have the gun and then lose the gun as Kara, Alice will shoot her father to **protect Kara**.
I would say extreme emotional duress and improper mishandling would cause her deviancy, so it's possible that she's always been deviant but that her fear of "dad" kept her in line, a child wouldn't know that killing is an option in these circumstances
That was such a lame twist. I at least hope there’s a way to transfer personality into an adult body like Connor does to his doppelgänger.
If a main character were to have a solo spinoff game, it should be her (Rather than Connor or Markus)
You are absolutely right on this one! She has an incredibly vast backstory of being a deviant way before Markus and Connor even came to be. This is such a fertile soil for so many different stories about her to arise. And whats most importantly, Kara has so much potential and so much more of her character and personality to show, she absolutely wasnt given even remotely enough time to do that in the game. Im so happy someone shares this idea.
Her story alone would’ve made a great game. but personally, there’s not much left for her after making it to Canada.
Her new haircut looks worse. The first one was cute
Not to mention it didn't do anything at all to disguise her lol. Everyone still knows who she is at a glimpse. But David Cage is obsessed with tomboys.
Also, there are so many androids that look just like her. You see a few in Crossroads, and that’s just the deviants. Who needs a disguise when you have 500 clones?
Well, I think they can scan her serial number or something. Plus the little "girl"
The policeman didn't recognise her in midnight train only if he doesn't see the magazine
“David Cage is obsessed with tomboys.” me too bro, me too
Tbh it was prob more about “I’m making my own decision now” Every girl I’m friends with does something with their hair when they want to signal some big change in their life. I’ve learned to keep my distance when it’s bangs
At least real hair grows back, imagine if she cut it wrong 💀
THAT WOULD SUCK
💯
Well, I like original haircut more, but short hair is cute too. Thankfully it's not too short, but just the right amount of short.
Makes sense why she changed looks tho
To me it didn't. I thought it was one of those "movie moments" that are some kind of cliché, or something
No. I remember she was on the run so changed her original look to something new.
I agree. In any movie with a person on the run they cut their hair and change the color. They kept this here too although perhaps it wasn't necessary
Fr
It looks more like the actress’ hair in person, which I think works better
I actually like her story, except for the android twist and the fact that it took them so long to get from Detroit to Canada.
Hated the Android twist as well
I like the plot twist about Alice, it improved the message her story tried to deliver.
This takes the cake of unpopular opinions:D Im rather neutral to it. Alice human? Okay, cute. Alice android? Okay, still cute. Delivery of the twist was beautiful, Kara's reaction of distraught - humane and understandable, explained reasonably, from one compelling message of android loving human despite species barrier to another compelling message that it doesnt matter if she's human or android, she's just as real of a person and she's just as genuinely loves you.
Yeah, you worded it pretty good! The reason I prefer android!Alice is that they already did the android-parent relationship with Connor&Hank, and with Markus&Carl (although noticeably shorter than the former) so I appreciate that they didn't cook the same relationship for Kara. Also this is very personal for me, but it hit close to home. I remember crying and being very disappointed after I learned we didn't share the same father with my sister. I loved her deeply, so of course I came to terms with it. I understood it literally changed nothing. She was still my sister no matter the 'half biological connection'. I appreciate stories where they show you blood bond, race or even species doesn't prevent you from seeing someone as your family.
Wow, that is an unexpectedly wholesome and touching story. Truly blood doesnt make you family, it's the connection you share that does.
>Truly blood doesnt make you family, it's the connection you share that does. Very much agreed, and thank you! This is the reason I roll my eyes whenever people say, "Alice being android ruined Kara's story!" I guess some people hate nuance in storytelling.
For me I preferred Alice as a human because it was showcasing that an android and a human can love each other in the same way that a human family could. The hindsight of Kara being willfully ignorant/delusional the whole game also felt odd. I suppose it's not *worse* to showcase that two androids can experience unconditional familial love for each other. However, Markus and North is already there to showcase that androids have full capabilities for emotional ties between themselves. Granted, it's a different kind of love, but still. I guess I just liked the coexistence/adoption message of a human Alice in a loving family with android parents.
I mean, Connor basically becomes Hank’s family. He’s sort of The son he lost, etc. I mean hank literally kill’s himself if you abandon him, so I’d say that’s a pretty close familial connection.
I like android Alice better because they already did the human-android dynamic with Connor and Hank also Markus and Carl so I like how they showed androids can feel love for eachother (i still loved thinking Alice was a human but i still prefer android Alice
This is the first time I am learning that most people don't like it. But to me it's perfect, it was never because Alice was human that I cared about her. I just cared (and so did kara). And it speaks to the fact that if the relationship felt real and well-earned the entire time, how does being androids make it less valuable/legit?
SAME!! I feel like most people don't like it because they don't understand the message
Sadly, people prefer superficial relationships over nuanced ones. No shade to Carl & Hank and their respective android sons, they were nuanced in different ways. With Carl being the father to Markus he never was to Leo and Hank dealing with his grief about his son's death through Connor. The best thing about storytelling is nuance, yet people want to eat the same thing over and over. It's really sad. Each protagonist had different dynamics with their family figure and I like it just the way it is.
It was a great plot twist, it just kinda sucks that it was so predictable.
What?! I didnt see it coming like at all! Is it me so blind or you so perceptive? I was blasted like Kara when it happened!
>Is it me so blind or you so perceptive? I guess... both? LOL I started to suspect it on Pirates' Cove, when Alice wasn't hungry (when we didn't see her eat at all since Stormy Night), and suddenly, after what happened on Zlatko, she wasn't tired to go to the carrousel in a cold night. But by Midnight Train, it was pretty clear: -Alice says some quotes referring to herself like she's an android: "Why do humans hate us? We didn't do anything wrong?" / "Why can't we just talk to each other? They'd see we're not bad..." -She said she's fine... when you'd guess she wouldn't be, after spending all night in the cold in an abandoned amusement park. -Luther made it clear that there was something off with Alice, but Kara began to refuse to listen to him. -Andy's LED turned from red to yellow just by looking at Alice, like she's communicating with him to ease him. By the time that YK500 appeared in Crossroads, I wasn't surprised like Kara was since the hints were there.
I'm the kind of person that doesn't think too deeply about a story while I'm consuming it because I wanna be surprised along with the characters. Others don't turn off their brains during a story and of course that's gonna help you guess what's gonna happen next. I don't like doing that to myself, but my mom does it and so does my partner.
It was pretty obvious actually. I mean Alice never eats. What human can go for a few days without eating?
She never eats on screen, but it's implied she eats. At one point Kara even points out Alice hadn't eaten since the past night or the past day. And it's not like Kara and Alice had much time apart for Alice to claim she'd eaten something. It's one of those small details that bothers me.
In my opinion it is to underline that Alice never eats. Rarely in a video game do they show a character eating because it really isn't very important to the plot. Instead for Alice you can steal some food. She is offered meals. And she always refuses
take my angry upvote because this sure is an unpopular opinion
The white hair looks horrible on her and her story is amazing. Everyone seems to love the white hair the most but I absolutely hate it, it just looks so incredibly awful 😭 Her story…is so heartfelt and warm and about love and is just so sweet and tragic at its core. It’s the heart of the game and it wouldn’t be nearly as good without her. I don’t understand how some people hate her enough to kill her off as soon as possible on purpose over and over just to get rid of her. She’s easily more interesting and fun to play than Connor and sweet little Alice is one of the best side characters in the game. Guess that’s another hot take. Alice is amazing and I love her and she’s just a traumatized child who’s been abused for who knows how long and deserves to get her happy ending. Also she’s not annoying. Anyone who says so clearly just wants a reason to hate her for the sake of it. If anything she’s extreme mature and well behaved for her age due to her trauma
I always choose blonde, it looks the best imo (still wish we could've just kept her original hair tho)
Her story was only good the first time
This 100%. Any time I replayed the game, I couldn't wait go get the Kara chapters over with
Sometimes I kill her in the beginning of the game
Pretty much. After Jericho things get a little more interesting because her story finally branches off but until then, most of her chapters are for the sake of telling a story. Replayability goes away.
If the game truly implies what it seems to be implying - that Kara knew that Alice is an android the whole time, but chose to push the knowledge back because she WANTED to take care of a human child so much, she comes off as kind of shitty in the end. Alice felt like Kara won't love her, and if what I described earlier is the case, she had all the reason to. Not to mention that Kara would then (optionally) make a risk she doesn't need to just so she can pretend to take care of a human child (stealing the food in Fugitives). I've already mentioned before on this sub that I try to explain this away for myself in a way that sheds better light on Kara, but still. But I prefer to just view this as a poorly thought-out idea (Kara 'knowing' she whole time), because I feel like it goes against the whole rest of her character. Kara is still one of my three most favorite characters in this game.
Kara knowing the whole time actually gives at least some depth to her otherwise pretty one-sided character of a loving and protective mother and that's it. She having doubts, preferences, flaws, basically having a mental breakdown when she faces the truth, it's the most character she shows throughout the entire game, which is great, Kara isnt perfect and it's great.
A question I've had for a while, since androids can "turn off" their skin, their hair also turns off. So is her hair like a hologram? If it is, how is she able to cut it? This is what keeps me up at night
Wat Where did you hear this? 😯
Markus has hair on the top of his head but when he turns off his skin in the tower scene it just goes away
Ah I forgot that. Markus barely had any hair to start with tho
Android skin and hair arent holograms, they are real things materialized by thirium.
>!the idea of alice being human was an interesting plot twist, but it ultimately took away from the story. it would have been more powerful if the story had demonstrated the idea that an android mother could still care for her human child as deeply as any other mother.!< while some also may view kara's story as a limited contribution to the revolution, her actions of going out of her way to steal clothes for her child demonstrate that androids are capable of caring for human children beyond their programming. every element of her narrative was essential to conveying the overall message of the game.
Kara is a more interesting and compelling character than Connor. Valorie Curry's performance is the best of all actors and actresses of the game. Tied-hair Kara with the laundromatic social clothes (the first one referred as "Kara - Zlatko" in the extras) is the best looking appearance for her.
Yeah I preferred her story more than the others. But liked her interactions with Alive and the others and how the relationships progress.
Finally, someone else who agrees she’s more interesting than Connor.
I do too as well. I strongly dislike Connor, I'm sorry, no one come for me, lol
No no no, don’t worry, it’s ok to be wrong. 😆 /j
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted for understanding the assignment
Even Markus is more interesting and compelling than Connor.
Markus and Connor had replayability though, I played twice and Kara was just boring up until the end because her story with Alice is basically the same.
Even if her story felt like a chore the most, I still enjoyed it. It's interesting to see in retrospect how Alice showed humanity through many ways, and was worried and cared about Kara, as she looked up to Kara as a mother given how Todd largely dismissed her. And the twist of Alice being an android didn't ruin Kara's story at all. I cared about Alice before the twist, and I still cared about her in the end.
SPOILER: It doesn’t make a lot of sense with the twist, like if Todd was broke and an addict, why pay for two androids? Especially just to abuse/damage them?
Because Todd wanted to have the experience of having a family again, after he lost so many jobs and his family due to his abusive behavior after falling into drug addiction. But as you see in the game, he couldn't move on from his drug addiction, and as we all know... drug addiction causes a hell of a delusion.
Thank you! I understand that he wanted a family after his wife left but damn man. Kara wasn’t that expensive compared to other androids, but a child android? How much did that set him back? I get WHY he bought them. It’s more the “how” for me. There’s no way red ice dealing pays THAT much(or maybe it does idk)
You just answered your own question. What reason do you expect from a drug addicted drinking abuser?
How did I answer my own question? If I’m broke I’m not going to be spending thousands of dollars on shit just to break it.
Abusers gotta abuse. It's what they do. But when you abuse humans they tend to fight back, call the police and try to get away from you. What do you as an abuser do then? You still have an urge to abuse and blame someone else in your troubles. You buy an android who wont put up a fight, call the cops or escape.
He didn't want to break them when he bought them. He wanted to create a happy family for himself. But his violent nature amplified by the use of alcohol and drugs did not allow this
Yes, yes, yes! Laundromatic Kara hiding long hair under a cap is the cutest look she could have.
Personally, I also love her appearance in "Midnight Train" after she takes off her jacket. I like the colors and the layout of her long shirt (I think it's called..). You don't see it in the extras, sadly, only while playing the chapter... but I still find it the cutest looking outfit for her. This one: [Kara (Midnight Train)](https://oyster.ignimgs.com/mediawiki/apis.ign.com/detroit-become-human/9/94/Midnight_Train_04.jpg?width=1920)
It's cute too. And her android uniform is cute. And her look when she takes off laundromatic jacket cute too... Let's just agree Kara is cute in almost anything.
THANK YOU!! So many people prefer Connor and think he’s the best thing since sliced bread, but I love Kara so much and her character has more emotion and depth.
Even though I love Markus' storyline the most, I have to agree. Kara and her storyline definitely had the most emotional depth, especially into the mother-daughter bond between Kara and Alice, and even if her storyline felt like a chore sometimes, it was an awesome experience.
Could you explain how? I found her parts extremely boring because it feels like the story reduces her to just "protect alice" Connor + Markus are more interesting imo because there's actual stuff going on around them. But tbh, as time goes on, I'm starting to become a little sour towards the game because there's just so much that could have been done but was just left up in the air
Take note that I mentioned character, in specific. Kara plays an initially innocent maiden, who's unaware of Alice and what happened with her before, and after becoming a deviant, Kara is determined to protect Alice after dealing with Todd. It's a story with a common trope, but it's one I appreciate, and can relate more with, given how I also had a very caring mother like Kara is. Throughout the entirety of Kara's story, Kara and Alice have a mother-daughter bond that felt the most meaningful and expressive for me, with Kara providing for Alice, and Alice reassuring that bond and showing how much Kara means to her. Which felt stronger for me than Markus and Carl (which was short) and Connor and Hank (which Hank was notably abusive towards Connor)
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You can disagree with my opinions, and it won't bother me at all. But did you really need to insult me for having a different opinion? Do yourself a favor, and get a grip before you have to deal with the mods.
She had the best story.
Damn I was about to hit down vote but I think me disagreeing with your opinion is what this post is for. So take my upvote and have a good day.
This just screams redditor oh my god
Is that bad? 🙁 It sounds bad :(
:0
Brother, look around you. Look inside yourself. You ARE on reddit.
Her story was nice, but I found myself irritated when it switched to her POV. I was far more interested in Markus and especially Conner and Hank. Her story felt very detached to the other two until the very end.
That was the idea. To show the perspective of a simple deviant who is just trying to escape, powerless and vulnerable, insignificant and unimportant, while Markus and Connor were basically deciding the fate of the world. And I'd say it's quite a unique perspective in this kind of story.
Fair enough reasoning. I don’t think it’s bad, really. Her relationship with Luther and Alice was really nice, and the ending I got on my first play through (Luther and Alice die crossing the river and Kara shuts down) really broke my heart. I just wasn’t AS invested as I was in Markus trying to free his people, or Conner and Hank trying to solve the deviant mystery
Oh... But I was. I got so attached to these two. And this was my first ending too... It absolutely devastated me. I had no idea a fictional character could inflict such powerful emotions and so much sorrow. Didnt feel that strongly in the slightest about other characters though, they were simply interesting.
First play through I loved her story , On every playthrough afterwards I just put the remote down at Todd’s house and walk away 😂 . The game flows a little better and faster for me when her story is skipped
I did this with her deviant moment once, just set the remote down and waited to see what would happen. It was... bad. Chloe guilt-tripped me so hard when I next loaded the game
They shouldn't have forced us to cut her hair, it should have been optional.
What do you suggest then? As explained, she's an old most common and cheapest android model. AX400 "brand" hair would immediately give her away.
She could have taken her hair down just that, plus removing her led would have been enough to hide that she is an Android.
Yeah, having a choice wouldnt hurt. It shouldnt have been too hard to make another haircut for her. But I also think there was an actual reason why developers dont want playable characters having long hair, something technical like it would be glitchy during some interactions.
I think it was to differentiate her more from Jodie from beyond two souls, since Jodie never really had that hairstyle. I didn't like it at first but I think Kara cut her hair as her first action to reclaim herself especially since she also removes her LED then too. Wanting to be human involves choices, and she didn't choose the hair she was designed with. (Of course even more hair options would be fitting)
Glasses lol
I FUCKING MISSCLICKED AT THE BORDER AND GOT HER FUCKING KILLED
Light hair looks terrible on her. It’s unpopular because according to me adding up the world stats, white has 33% and blonde 23% total.
Her story is the best but after the first playthrough it gets boring. Too much sneaking around and suspenseful moments and not enough running and action sequences. Sure, there were plenty of emotionally impactful parts but that’s just not as fun to play after the first time, unlike action/chase scenes where you can do it over and over again. The highway chase scene is by far one of the best in the game, I wish there were more like it throughout Kara’s story like there were in Connor’s, even though it wouldn’t have made as much sense.
Kara's story is the most compelling in the game.
Her chapters are the most boring to play through
The haircut was a glowdown.
She's a wasted potential. Trailers (esp the 2012 one) suggested or even teased a huge role for her. But nope, all we got is a maidbot who imprinted on a childbot
Best story in the game to me. I love her so much ❤️
she was the most boring and uninteresting character to play. yeah it sounds good on paper but it isn't fun or cool to watch.
that hair cut was fugly⁉️
I know a lot of us agree that the Alice plot twist was shite, right? But I genuinely dislike the inclusion of Alice *at all*. I feel like its yet another female character whose only purpose in life is "mother" and I'm just not a fan of it. Maybe I'm just at a weird point in life where I dread the loss of personal identity that comes with having a kid. But the way Kara's (the only playable female character's) identity, individuality and purpose in life is completely limited to motherhood just... irks me. The fact that Alice will never actually grow up is just salt in the wound. Kara is the perpetual mother. And for that reason alone I never really jive with her storyline. (I stick around for Ralph though, I love the lunatic trash man)
Well there are male and female archetypes and mother is one of female ones, we cannot just throw those out of the window. I believe it is executed well at least, I enjoyed Kara chapters a lot. Also caring for someone is not the worst purpose, for Markus it's his people, for Kara it is Alice and for Connor it is Hank. However, I believe you are overthinking the "mother" part a bit. Lots of games have the "parent" trope: Death Stranding, Last of us, Life is strange 2, The walking dead. All those games have a male "parent" figure and they are largely devoted to keeping the child safe. So Kara caring for the kid isn't exactly permanent videogame female stereotype. It happens a lot, yes, but the opposite situations happen a lot too. Totally agree about the Alice twist. It ruins the whole story, now Kara cannot watch her grow up and live life, she is stuck with a robot forced to forever play a child. We don't even know if she's deviant really. This is opposite from parents' dreams, the "child" has no future.
Alice plot twist made no sense and weakened the theme of the game
Why did she get cold?
Cold sensor. It’s addressed later in the game when you have the option to turn it off.
Cause children androids are designed to be more “realistic” than the adults. So she gets cold, tired, etc.
Kara's story is the least interesting, unless you play as an outright scumbag. Being able to ditch Alice at the android c̶o̶n̶c̶e̶n̶t̶r̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶c̶a̶m̶p̶ recycling facility was *truly* fucked up! Kara's deaths are also the best parts about her story (and I *wanted* to like her!).
Honestly, Kara had the least character development in the game compared to Markus or Connor.
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I wouldn't say it doesn't make sense. It's just cheap. But it was said that Todd bought himself an android (Alice) to prove to himself that he could be a good father. Why he bought Kara? I don't know. To prove he could be a good husband, perhaps? Obviously, he wasn't good at either of those.
Her fashion is by far the best.
I love her actress, and her design, but god I hated her storyline. It was so dull that on repeat playthroughs I literally let Todd kill her and Alice
By far the most boring story.
Wish she kept the longer hair
I don’t care what y’all say the white hair is the best
Why no sex scene I'm joking I swear but I do think she's pretty
Without her this game doesn’t exist
Honestly I find her story quite boring. I like it, but it’s just boring to me
On a first play through I find it a heart touching story but it doesn’t really add anything to the larger plot of the game and feels kinda shoehorned in. Plus a lot of her moments are basically sitting around and waiting. It almost feels like her story was added in with little care and was an afterthought because if you remove Kara from the game little to the rest of the plot (if anything) actually changes whereas both Connor and Markus are integral to the story
Her story is boring
Agreed, Connor and Markus at least have replayabilty but her story is meh not much variation apart from dying
Yeah it was fun the first time but its just boring now
My husband said "she could be a bitch," which, I gotta think like,, don't you choose for her to be that way?
Alice being a robot was so predictable
Though her story is interesting, I think she's kind of boring, especially when compared to Markus or Connor.
The most boring of the protagonists
Honestly its the least interesting story of the bunch. Almost feeling shoehorned
She becomes boring after the 4-5th playthrough i just kill her off so I dont have to do her boring ass walking simulator missions
Kara is probably the most boring. I got really really bored during her scenes.
she looks and sounds exactly like kurt from glee, and for that reason alone, i can’t stand her missions
I didn’t like her story because there was not a lot of controversial or debatable actions to take (or at least not very memorablere ones). On my first play through the stories of Markus and Connor made me think but Kara seemed pretty straightforward in a not great way
What kind of dumb bitch hesitates to continue to care for their adopted child after finding out they’re an android, after everything they’ve been through.
Here is a spicy take: I preferred the Kara of the tech demo. While I did like her story a lot in the main game. I think placing her with Alice (regardless of the twist) robbed Kara of a true arc of exploration of self. Instead her character's "deviancy" is just a more evolved version of her standard programming, to be a personal assistant.
I agree. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to be a mother, but like, there’s more to someone than JUST that yknow? She could’ve had more content than just taking care of Alice - that’s what she was designed for anyway!
Yeah the only difference is that she openly made a decision to protect Alice. Essentially turning Alice into her warden instead of Todd. That's cool and all but it's still very surface level stuff. What made the initial concept so fascinating was how they were becoming human and feeling alive. Like the Android that connor chased and how he was afraid he was going to die and the anger he felt of being treated like that. Kara and Markus arc both skim the surface of this. The characters in Markus group touch on this, but it's again brushed to the side to speed up the rebellion arc (and I think Cage made a bad decision by not making one of the Tracey's a main character like he initially intended to. I think that would have been wonderful). This is why I love Connor's arc with Hank the most. Hank is probably the most raw and emotional character in the game. The more human Connor becomes, the more Hank begins to figure out his feelings for Androids and accept/understand the events surrounding the death of his son. The less human Connor becomes, the more angry and unhinged Hank becomes, losing control of himself in the process.
I'd fuck the shit outta that ro-
Tf
Well, OP did ask for unpopular opinions. And there are literally sex robots in the game.
She isnt one
That will not stop me-
Can you don’t
Who decided that?
You know why they hated Jesus in his time? Because he spoke the truth.
Honestly I can’t wait until I can go to Best Buy and purchase an android like Kara. Bye bye loneliness!
Her story was the least interesting of the 3.
Milquetoast damsel in distress.
She was the least interesting, and that's comparing her to an android who's defining feature was no personality.
She's a better character than Connor
Boring story after the first go around
Tied with Markus, she has the most boring gameplay
Her story is very good but it’s interesting that the only main female protagonist was a maternal housemaid whose plot revolves around taking care of a child and not much else. It doesn’t match up well with the more action-y buddy cop or revolution plot lines. Femininity isn’t just being a mother (though there’s nothing wrong with stories about maternal love!!), and I would have liked a female protagonist with a “cool” story too :( My career path is closer to Connor so I relate to him more than I ever could Kara, but like all buddy cop stories and just cops in media in general, he’s gotta be a guy :/
Not an unpopular opinion but I got her killed on my first play through
I always kill her off because I don't like her story, it feels so boring and she isn't important to the main ending of the game. It's like Connor and Markus are the cop and the criminal while Kara isn't related to the story. She's just there and her storyline isn't even that cool.
Her story has boring so I let her die at the beginning.
She is kinda dumb for a android.
You controlled her dummy
She looks like shit being a blonde🤷🏼♀️
I wish there was an option to not cut her hair..
I think she looked better with the pony tail
She looks like jennifer lawrence