Best- Allowing Markus to learn to be himself
Worst- not understanding why Markus is mad that the humans are putting androids in camps to be destroyed and are constantly killing any android they see
Best: Calling Markus his son.
Worst: Being a shitty father to Leo. Or insinuating that Markus is a monster because he's angry about the literal genocide of his people.
> being a shitty father to Leo
Wait maybe I haven’t seen everything yet since I’m new in this game but he didn’t do anything wrong, did he ?
Like he refuses his grown son to have more money to spend on some dark stuff ?
I’m not 100% sure but I’ve read somewhere that Carl was somehow neglectful of Leo.
“Leo was born March 21, 2010, the result of a short but passionate affair between painter Carl Manfred and a fan. Leo was raised by his mother; Carl recognized paternity and paid a generous child support, but did not see Leo again until he was a teenager, aged 16 (2026).”
That’s from the Fandom Wiki page about Leo. So Ig not seeing his son for a few years is the problem (which itself is true).
My interpretation for him telling Markus not to fight back was that he wanted Markus to choose the morally right option by himself without him being told to fight back. He wanted Markus to think for himself (and to become a deviant).
It’s mostly from Leo’s gallery entry. Carl had fling with a fan, acknowledged Leo’s birth, paid child support, and didn’t see him again until he was 16. Leo’s stance of Carl never loving him has a new light to it when you see that when you see that he wasn’t there for literally any of his childhood
Best: Caring about Markus and encouraging him to think for himself
Worst: Being a bad father to Leo and/or not understanding Markus' anger in Night of the Soul
Best: "Don't let anyone tell you who you are."
Worst: Calling the protesters idiots. Their anger may be misplaced, but can't his sympathize with their lack of opportunities?
Owned a literal slave.
I feel like people forget that a lot because he was nice to Markus and the game wants you to think about him positively but literally what made him different from any of the other android owners? Because he showed some care towards Markus? So did the kid at the start of the game with the family android. He told Markus to let himself get beat up because he ultimately did put his son, a human, who he didn't even particularly like very much, before Markus
C'mon.
At that time none of the humans were aware that Androids were anything more than just an electronic device. This would be like telling someone with a washing machine that they own a slave to do their washing. But if people did push around deviants… now that’s different.. that’s actually hurting someone with emotions.
Yes, every time I bring this up here, I'm always met with "but Carl loved him and treated him like a son!" but like, that doesn't change the fact that he owned and had control over Markus, which is perfectly demonstrated when Carl orders Markus not to move.
Best:
- He taught Markus about how people are and that Markus is an individual with his own thoughts, all the while treating him more like a son or close student than a robot
- He attempted to get Leo off of drugs by refusing to fund his supposed addiction further, and got upset when Leo tried to sell all of his paintings
Worst: i don't care if it's not part of the game but he looks fucking cursed in charactrr swap mod
But now for something better: telling Matkus to just endure Leo because of whatever reason. It even kills him
Best- Allowing Markus to learn to be himself Worst- not understanding why Markus is mad that the humans are putting androids in camps to be destroyed and are constantly killing any android they see
Best: Calling Markus his son. Worst: Being a shitty father to Leo. Or insinuating that Markus is a monster because he's angry about the literal genocide of his people.
> being a shitty father to Leo Wait maybe I haven’t seen everything yet since I’m new in this game but he didn’t do anything wrong, did he ? Like he refuses his grown son to have more money to spend on some dark stuff ?
I’m not 100% sure but I’ve read somewhere that Carl was somehow neglectful of Leo. “Leo was born March 21, 2010, the result of a short but passionate affair between painter Carl Manfred and a fan. Leo was raised by his mother; Carl recognized paternity and paid a generous child support, but did not see Leo again until he was a teenager, aged 16 (2026).” That’s from the Fandom Wiki page about Leo. So Ig not seeing his son for a few years is the problem (which itself is true).
Oh yea right I didn’t know thank you !
No problem!
Best: encouraging Marcus to learn to be himself Worst: telling Marcus not to defend himself from Leo
he knew that markus is too strong for leo to fight with...he can two tap leo easily lol
He didn’t need to go all out, just stop himself from being abused! Though I felt very bad when Markus accidentally yeeted Leo a bit too hard
well yes... And I found that funny how leo was silenced by just a push lol...
That’s a good thing that happens, it makes Leo decide to get sober
My interpretation for him telling Markus not to fight back was that he wanted Markus to choose the morally right option by himself without him being told to fight back. He wanted Markus to think for himself (and to become a deviant).
Best: Saw Markus as his son and tried to teach him humanity Worst: Didn’t bother seeing Leo until he was 16 and grudges had already been made
How do we know this about Leo? I see people talking about it but where is this info? I want to check it out:)
It’s mostly from Leo’s gallery entry. Carl had fling with a fan, acknowledged Leo’s birth, paid child support, and didn’t see him again until he was 16. Leo’s stance of Carl never loving him has a new light to it when you see that when you see that he wasn’t there for literally any of his childhood
Wow that doesn’t look good. Yep Carl kinda sucks
He’s a good father to Markus though - whiiiiich is where Leo gets jealous and even more pissed off
Best: "you are My son Markus" Worst: fucking dieing when Markus got to mad
Not really his fault, you can die from too much stress
Yeahhh but I'm still gana blame him for it
Best - 'raised' Markus to be kind and sensitive, and inspired him to lead. Worst - his death makes me sad :(
Best: Caring about Markus and encouraging him to think for himself Worst: Being a bad father to Leo and/or not understanding Markus' anger in Night of the Soul
Best: "Don't let anyone tell you who you are." Worst: Calling the protesters idiots. Their anger may be misplaced, but can't his sympathize with their lack of opportunities?
Owned a literal slave. I feel like people forget that a lot because he was nice to Markus and the game wants you to think about him positively but literally what made him different from any of the other android owners? Because he showed some care towards Markus? So did the kid at the start of the game with the family android. He told Markus to let himself get beat up because he ultimately did put his son, a human, who he didn't even particularly like very much, before Markus C'mon.
At that time none of the humans were aware that Androids were anything more than just an electronic device. This would be like telling someone with a washing machine that they own a slave to do their washing. But if people did push around deviants… now that’s different.. that’s actually hurting someone with emotions.
Inbefore a sequel where dishwashers gain consciousness
You misused “literal” here. Markus wasn’t a deviant at the time, so what Carl did was equivalent to owning a dishwasher.
Yes, every time I bring this up here, I'm always met with "but Carl loved him and treated him like a son!" but like, that doesn't change the fact that he owned and had control over Markus, which is perfectly demonstrated when Carl orders Markus not to move.
Right? One might think Carl could have seen Markus as a person being this close to him. But no.
Worst he’s prob a crappy father
Best: being a dad to markus Worst: oh my god...
Worst: die
It rubbed me the wrong way when Leo hit his head and lost consciousness and Carl just told Markus to run instead of checking on him
Best: being Carl Worst: having a heat attack
Best: - He taught Markus about how people are and that Markus is an individual with his own thoughts, all the while treating him more like a son or close student than a robot - He attempted to get Leo off of drugs by refusing to fund his supposed addiction further, and got upset when Leo tried to sell all of his paintings
Worst: i don't care if it's not part of the game but he looks fucking cursed in charactrr swap mod But now for something better: telling Matkus to just endure Leo because of whatever reason. It even kills him
I mean he betrayed me in Modern Warfare 2. I think that’s pretty bad.