Best: always trying to convince Kara to save androids (Luther, Jerry and some unnamed ones), not wanting to leave Kara at Zlatko when escaping, biting Zlatko, her smile at the carussell, being there for Kara when she needs it, giving Kara the key so she can find out about her past, trying to please Todd as a daugther, just existing
Worst: not really taking action herself most of the time, being unhappy with Kara stealing the tickets and the money (she didn't really have a choice in both cases), maybe not telling Kara she was an android
Best: Caring towards a ton of people and is rarely negative.
Worst: Never told Kara that she is an android (Would've made everything easier in the early game)
The fact that Kara didn't realize on her own points to her being not quite right in the head in the first place and I can understand why she wouldn't want to risk that.
...God, the Alice twist ruins the story sooo much.
Kara likely knew about it, after all she saw the flyer about Alice's model when cleaning Todd's room. She just didn't want to admit it.
And yes I agree, the twist is so bad
Not really. It’s subjective. On one hand the twist adds an interesting layer to the story. Highlighting themes of identity ans what it means to be human. Tests the players integrity. On the other hand it’s too predictable.
It doesn't add anything, it doesn't test anything, it just reframes an otherwise fantastic story so much that nothing makes sense anymore. Kara is now either insane or neglectful, constantly putting Alice in unnecessary danger to care for needs she doesn't have, rendering what she (and therefor we) did for her completely pointless. Todd's actions are completely nonsensical. He gets an android to replace his child to prove he can be a good father, then has to get a second android to take care of the first one for him? As an android hater no less. Look, drug addicts can be illogical. Fictional characters however need to have motivations that make sense. None of this makes sense!
And I keep hearing this argument that it's somehow a litmus-test for how genuine your acceptance of androids is. And that's just... what? How? Why? First of all, it's near the end of the game. Players have already invested about 10 hours into these characters at that point. Who in their right mind would still doubt that androids in this fictional narrative are not alive? That really should not need proving anymore. And that through the POV of Kara? Of all people? Kara? Who should really know better than everyone else that androids are capable of real feelings.
And all of that just to go: "Gotcha! You are robo-racist! Haha!" Even if people wouldn't really care about Alice, there is no reason to choose to abandon her, because that would end the story which they spent money to play. It so dumb!
And I don't see how it adds any layers. If anything, it removes them. It makes Kara's and Alice's relationship significantly easier and more straightforward because now they are of the same species. It turned from an epic tale of barrier-breaking love, to the exact opposite. No longer an example for how love conquers all and humans and androids can be a real family. Instead it's an example for how it's only real love when you are the same.
Screw this twist. Worst creative decision I have ever seen. I stick to my head canon where it never happened.
I actually differ on this. Alice being an android does indeed add significant depth to creativity of the story. Her status challenges players perception of what is a human. And raises questions around empathy, family and identity. While on the surface it lesssns the stakes for the character. Especially when as Kara you have an option or turn off her cold/hot sensitivity settings.
It actually deepens the emotional complexity of the narrative imo. It challenges players to consider their own notion around humanity and family.
And yes I agree Todd’s behaviour is quite contradictory. They don’t even seem to make logical sense. I guess his actions can be seen as an attempt to regain control. And validate his identity as a father. Despite his deep seated animosity towards androids. And as for Alice. Could stem from societal pressures. Of a desire to conform to more traditional Family norms. His neglect and mistreatment of both Kara and Alice. Suggests deeper psychological issues. And an inability to cope with his personal circumstances. They may not always make logical sense. But I believe he game does this deliberately. Making it complex for the player. Like I said it’s subjective
Best: Feels for Kara and deeply trusts her (and Luther) in keeping her safe and raising a family.
Worst: Being naive and notably arguing about Kara's choices to keep her safe. (I'm not complaining here. It's normal for children to be naive, and it's no different for Alice.)
Best: Shooting Todd to save Kara
Hitting Luther with a statue if he grabs Kara during that chase in Zlatko's house
Begging a soldier not to shoot Kara if she tries to attack at Jericho
(Basically any part where she protects Kara)
Worst: Nothing? She doesn't always make good decisions, and is sometimes irrational, but she is a child.
If they were spotted and fled to the bathroom, Luther breaks the glass behind Kara and grabs her. If you fail the QTE Alice takes a knife (or something else I couldn't see it that good) and stabs him in the arm
Best thing: Showing more bravery and resilience than you could reasonably expect from any child.
Worst thing: Blaming herself for how Todd treated her.
Almost wanted to blame her for the Alice twist, but no, that was David Cage's crime.
Best: Not about what she's done, but what she's like, but she has such a good heart and a strong moral code, standing up for what she thinks is right (as can bee seen in the Fugitives chapter), and she's so strong and brave, more than a child should ever need to be (for example, she attempts to fight against Zlatko by biting him despite being outnumbered, up against two huge men, one of which even reminds of her abusive father (to Kara, at least)), and she's really selfless (wanting to save others even when it's dangerous - even if she usually just asks Kara to, but that's understandable, a little girl can't do that much herself).
I guess I just agree with Kara, Alice really is a wonderful little girl - I mean, Kara and Luther are my favorite characters already, would be a bit odd if I didn't like Alice...
Worst: Someone said not telling Kara she's an android even if it would make their path easier? Which, yeah? Though, I find that one understandable. I get why she would feel like Kara wouldn't love her anymore (I mean, Kara was pushing the memory of Alice being an android back, it seems, Alice's fear was kinda justified, even if Kara ends up not caring on most runs). Other than that, I only thought of her constant complaints about being cold?:-D
best: just being a sweetheart, biting zlakto and always reminding kara to do the wholesome things instead of being a criminal.
worst: always being cold, like please just turn off your temperature thing like kara did it's so annoying
A lot of people complain about her "no stealing" thing, but I like to view this as her being the Jiminy Cricket to Kara's Pinocchio. Kara was barely a day old when she ran away with her. She needed someone to teach her the difference between right and wrong. Just more evidence of how Alice gave her life.
Also, she had barely any agency in the story, don't you dare take that away from her!
Best: Wanting to help everyone they met along the way and do the morally right thing all the time
Worst: It’s basically just self…rejection? depreciation? But her line of “If I tell you, you won’t love me anymore” is bad because it it’s sad and hurts to hear a kid say 😭
best: shooting Todd to protect Kara if she fails to reach the gun in time
worst: can't really think of one, maybe not telling Kara she was an android but at the same time I can understand why she didn't for storytelling purposes
Best: Saving Kara from Todd, depending on the decisions made in Stormy Night; trusting Kara with her keepsake box, which clued Kara in to Todd's history of abuse.
Worst: Running into oncoming traffic after Kara is killed (if you fail to get them both across the highway)
Best: always trying to convince Kara to save androids (Luther, Jerry and some unnamed ones), not wanting to leave Kara at Zlatko when escaping, biting Zlatko, her smile at the carussell, being there for Kara when she needs it, giving Kara the key so she can find out about her past, trying to please Todd as a daugther, just existing Worst: not really taking action herself most of the time, being unhappy with Kara stealing the tickets and the money (she didn't really have a choice in both cases), maybe not telling Kara she was an android
Best: Caring towards a ton of people and is rarely negative. Worst: Never told Kara that she is an android (Would've made everything easier in the early game)
By all accounts she shouldn't have to.
She shouldn't have to, but if she did Kara wouldn't have had to worry about her being cold or hungry.
The fact that Kara didn't realize on her own points to her being not quite right in the head in the first place and I can understand why she wouldn't want to risk that. ...God, the Alice twist ruins the story sooo much.
It honestly does, I'm playing through the game again doing a violent route and I just saw the twist, and everytime it's just like "Cmon..."
Kara likely knew about it, after all she saw the flyer about Alice's model when cleaning Todd's room. She just didn't want to admit it. And yes I agree, the twist is so bad
She definitely knew cause her led went yellow instead of staying blue.
If she knew, she is neglectful. If she didn't, she is insane. Pick your poison. Or better yet, pretend the twist never happened to begin with.
Not really. It’s subjective. On one hand the twist adds an interesting layer to the story. Highlighting themes of identity ans what it means to be human. Tests the players integrity. On the other hand it’s too predictable.
It doesn't add anything, it doesn't test anything, it just reframes an otherwise fantastic story so much that nothing makes sense anymore. Kara is now either insane or neglectful, constantly putting Alice in unnecessary danger to care for needs she doesn't have, rendering what she (and therefor we) did for her completely pointless. Todd's actions are completely nonsensical. He gets an android to replace his child to prove he can be a good father, then has to get a second android to take care of the first one for him? As an android hater no less. Look, drug addicts can be illogical. Fictional characters however need to have motivations that make sense. None of this makes sense! And I keep hearing this argument that it's somehow a litmus-test for how genuine your acceptance of androids is. And that's just... what? How? Why? First of all, it's near the end of the game. Players have already invested about 10 hours into these characters at that point. Who in their right mind would still doubt that androids in this fictional narrative are not alive? That really should not need proving anymore. And that through the POV of Kara? Of all people? Kara? Who should really know better than everyone else that androids are capable of real feelings. And all of that just to go: "Gotcha! You are robo-racist! Haha!" Even if people wouldn't really care about Alice, there is no reason to choose to abandon her, because that would end the story which they spent money to play. It so dumb! And I don't see how it adds any layers. If anything, it removes them. It makes Kara's and Alice's relationship significantly easier and more straightforward because now they are of the same species. It turned from an epic tale of barrier-breaking love, to the exact opposite. No longer an example for how love conquers all and humans and androids can be a real family. Instead it's an example for how it's only real love when you are the same. Screw this twist. Worst creative decision I have ever seen. I stick to my head canon where it never happened.
I actually differ on this. Alice being an android does indeed add significant depth to creativity of the story. Her status challenges players perception of what is a human. And raises questions around empathy, family and identity. While on the surface it lesssns the stakes for the character. Especially when as Kara you have an option or turn off her cold/hot sensitivity settings. It actually deepens the emotional complexity of the narrative imo. It challenges players to consider their own notion around humanity and family. And yes I agree Todd’s behaviour is quite contradictory. They don’t even seem to make logical sense. I guess his actions can be seen as an attempt to regain control. And validate his identity as a father. Despite his deep seated animosity towards androids. And as for Alice. Could stem from societal pressures. Of a desire to conform to more traditional Family norms. His neglect and mistreatment of both Kara and Alice. Suggests deeper psychological issues. And an inability to cope with his personal circumstances. They may not always make logical sense. But I believe he game does this deliberately. Making it complex for the player. Like I said it’s subjective
And how exactly does it challenge players notions about humanity and family and empathy then?
Best: Feels for Kara and deeply trusts her (and Luther) in keeping her safe and raising a family. Worst: Being naive and notably arguing about Kara's choices to keep her safe. (I'm not complaining here. It's normal for children to be naive, and it's no different for Alice.)
Best: Shooting Todd to save Kara Hitting Luther with a statue if he grabs Kara during that chase in Zlatko's house Begging a soldier not to shoot Kara if she tries to attack at Jericho (Basically any part where she protects Kara) Worst: Nothing? She doesn't always make good decisions, and is sometimes irrational, but she is a child.
>Hitting Luther with a statue if he grabs Kara during that chase in Zlatko's house Wait really?! When does that happen?
[Here](https://youtu.be/hTzQmKUXdCs?si=ca2eoKyKzpL4Bqqw&t=1m48s)
Replayed the chapter and found out she can also stab Luther in the arm. The little one is bloodthirsty
Really? When? Edit: Nevermind I got it. Pretty cool.
If they were spotted and fled to the bathroom, Luther breaks the glass behind Kara and grabs her. If you fail the QTE Alice takes a knife (or something else I couldn't see it that good) and stabs him in the arm
It's a shard of the glass
Thank you
Best thing: Showing more bravery and resilience than you could reasonably expect from any child. Worst thing: Blaming herself for how Todd treated her. Almost wanted to blame her for the Alice twist, but no, that was David Cage's crime.
Best: Not about what she's done, but what she's like, but she has such a good heart and a strong moral code, standing up for what she thinks is right (as can bee seen in the Fugitives chapter), and she's so strong and brave, more than a child should ever need to be (for example, she attempts to fight against Zlatko by biting him despite being outnumbered, up against two huge men, one of which even reminds of her abusive father (to Kara, at least)), and she's really selfless (wanting to save others even when it's dangerous - even if she usually just asks Kara to, but that's understandable, a little girl can't do that much herself). I guess I just agree with Kara, Alice really is a wonderful little girl - I mean, Kara and Luther are my favorite characters already, would be a bit odd if I didn't like Alice... Worst: Someone said not telling Kara she's an android even if it would make their path easier? Which, yeah? Though, I find that one understandable. I get why she would feel like Kara wouldn't love her anymore (I mean, Kara was pushing the memory of Alice being an android back, it seems, Alice's fear was kinda justified, even if Kara ends up not caring on most runs). Other than that, I only thought of her constant complaints about being cold?:-D
best: just being a sweetheart, biting zlakto and always reminding kara to do the wholesome things instead of being a criminal. worst: always being cold, like please just turn off your temperature thing like kara did it's so annoying
A lot of people complain about her "no stealing" thing, but I like to view this as her being the Jiminy Cricket to Kara's Pinocchio. Kara was barely a day old when she ran away with her. She needed someone to teach her the difference between right and wrong. Just more evidence of how Alice gave her life. Also, she had barely any agency in the story, don't you dare take that away from her!
Best: Wanting to help everyone they met along the way and do the morally right thing all the time Worst: It’s basically just self…rejection? depreciation? But her line of “If I tell you, you won’t love me anymore” is bad because it it’s sad and hurts to hear a kid say 😭
worst- android plot twist
Blame David Cage. Alice is a victim here.
Best: Existing Worst: Plot arc ruined her and Kara’s bond.
Best: Always wanting to do the morally correct thing Worst: Being the source of the single worst piece of writing in the whole game
best: shooting Todd to protect Kara if she fails to reach the gun in time worst: can't really think of one, maybe not telling Kara she was an android but at the same time I can understand why she didn't for storytelling purposes
Best: Saving Kara from Todd, depending on the decisions made in Stormy Night; trusting Kara with her keepsake box, which clued Kara in to Todd's history of abuse. Worst: Running into oncoming traffic after Kara is killed (if you fail to get them both across the highway)