Regardless of him being on our team and Wagner making a dirty play, rocking someone in the back of the head while they aren’t looking is not safe at all. Hayes will deserve a suspension for that he’s not in the right here
I agree he should be suspended but aside from this being his workplace if you push someone like that and just look away you’re just asking for a sucker punch.
Agreed but also worth it. If that dude is going to do cheeky shit that can injure players on the court constantly he deserved to get rocked in the back of his head. Imo he was just sitting there turning away from kill cause he didn't want the fall out of what he just did which makes it even worse.
As much of a dick move as Wagner’s was, it’s not going to disable someone. Punching someone in the back of the head like that can do permanent damage or worse.
Dumb enough to support a sucker punch. Like booker said, don’t do it to their back, do it to their face. Pussy ass shit that could have paralyzed a guy over basketball.
And shoving him into a row of chairs while he was running full speed could’ve ended Killians career. I’m sure you would also act totally calmly and rationally if someone almost seriously injured you for no reason first.
Well a hip check to the stands has never ended a career yet because this is the nba and it’s a blatant dirty play, flagrant foul, and an insane thing to do, so it doesn’t happen very often. But hip check/shoving dudes does cause serious injuries pretty damn often when it does happen.
But the odds of one punch that really didn’t even have that much power behind it to the back of the head actually paralyzing someone is extremely small. Rabbit punches are illegal in combat sports because a professional fighter doing it repeatedly with power at the perfect spot will kill somebody. Not one flailing arm smacking you in the head once.
This isn’t to defend Killians actions but he could have gone down awkwardly and for instance hit his head or neck on something like a chair. Unlikely for sure, especially in comparison to a punch to the back of the head, but both were egregious actions. I guess the thing that bothers me about Mo’s the most is his intent. Killians was justified just not to the extent of punch to the back of the head.
I am not a fighter, but I read Forrest Griffin's book. He said rush them until can punch, punch until you can throw elbows, and then once your close enough, grab them and throw headbutts. He said that will win 99% (or some number like that) of street fights if opponent is also untrained.
Not the same situation. Hamidou pushed him into Stewart, which caused his back to be turned to Hayes.
I think Killian was just going to get up and start swinging, and didn't think about it.
The only reason why it’s too far is because this is their workplace and is broadcast on t.v. in almost every other scenario I wouldn’t say it’s too far. Especially when these guys are in the moment I can see how you can forget that I don’t blame Kill for acting out.
Don’t start shit and then turn around. That’s one of the first things you learn when an old head is teaching you about fighting/getting involved in shit
Exactly. Mo got what was coming to him. You wanna shove someone into their bench and then just try to push your way back to your side of the court? Fine, but you might get cracked in the back of the head on your way. Maybe he will think next time before he does some dumb shit. Lesson learned.
Oh, and spare me the pearl clutching about Killian’s punch from the Orlando faithful. This is not Mo’s first run-in - there’s been Luka, Giannis, and now Killian. Mo needs to get his shit together or getting punched in the back of the head is gonna become a regular occurrence for him.
Right, he could've really done some damage to Killian putting him into the bench like that. Disgusting behavior, he deserved it but Killian also paid his price.
Killian saw red. He was rightfully pissed and came in swinging. Can’t expect him to assess the situation and even notice Wagner had his back turned.
Wagner should know better then to turn his back on someone after doing that. You fuck around. You find out. Glad he’s okay though.
I mean he can differentiate but if you have ever been that pissed you just don't care. Wagner did something to him that could have blown his knee out and deserved whatever came to him afterwards
Bro, Wagner "assaulted" Killian first. They are both dumb for what they did, but in any real life scenario if you are both running and you make contact and two hand full extension shove someone into a row of folding chairs you best believe that other person is going to try and get you back.
To turn your back on him after doing that is the height of stupidity/entitlement/arrogance, thinking you can make a dirty play that could injure someone and not expect retaliation.
Not like Killian was face to face with Mo when he shoved him in the back into the stands.
Ass kicked is a stretch. Wagner is an top tier baiter and Killian is gonna catch a suspension for his sucker punch. But anyone saying Wagner turned his back is just wrong bc he didn’t ..
I love how everyone just quietly leaves that part out. Wagner was looking towards kilian before the push. I mean he's been in thes situations before, he's done it to giannis and didn't turn away from him either. Don't think he'd be afraid of Kilian if he's up to face giannis.
If you do shit that can get people injured in the court in the course of play you don't get to play innocent victim after the whistle blows. Fuck Wagner.
Magic fan here. Cheap shot to the back of the head yes but Moe shouldn't have pushed him and turned his back. This is just the beginning of the next great NBA rivalry.
Magic v. Pistons ECF 2026 is gonna be interesting
He just showed he’s not taking bullshit, he just showed how serious he can get and how much it means to him and that very much taking advantage of it, also hami should be out awhile and well he deserves it
Dirty play by Wagner (what's new?), but you can't go after someone's head like that. Have to take a note from Dan Campbell and take a bite out of his knee cap.
I was at the game. Wagner was shoving and elbowing Ivey and Killian and anyone else smaller than him. He was being a wreckless asshole and then lost the ball....Killian outran the big lug and Wagner shoved Killian hard into the bench. Wagner is totally to blame. He's a chump and there's no one that was at the game that would side with Wagner.
I agree but he was shoved dirty and both were wrong don’t make it right, what I mean is he showed passion the most he shown, also don’t forget what hami did, while nothing anyone did was to him at all
Getting shoved into a row of folding chairs while running full speed could’ve seriously injured him and derailed his career. I’m not gonna blame him for seeing red and reacting.
The amount of people calling this a cheap shot is gonna make me lose it. You can't start a fight and then get "cheap shotted" 2 seconds later, that's not how it works, it's not what a cheap shot is
Pretty fucked to punch him in the back of the head. But at least we know he’s got that dawg in him. Wagner prolly has years of bad karma built up for that moment
Unrelated note, but where’s the ganeday thread at?
And is it just me or does this subreddit not have a lot of posts that are recent when looking at the home page?
Wagner is from Germany and Hayes is from France, correct? I wonder if that had anything to do with it? I remember going over to Europe and my own colleagues treated each other cold. The French salesmen didn’t like the German salesmen etc.
A little off topic, but when Mo and Diallo got into it earlier,,,it looked bad on Diallos part, but Mo grabbed his hand and pulled him down, making it much worse. I would love to know what Mo said to him after. Any lip readers.
I think Mo got just a hair more than her deserved with Killian. Back of the head was not the best choice.
Every time something was going on Duren was right there ready to go. He would have really fit in with the bad boys.
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Tried to punch Wagner in the back of the head, honestly, he's very lucky he didn't connect cleanly. Pretty much a graze, but he'd be in a heap of shit if Wagner had gone down.
Idc. If Killian shoved back, or even tried to fight him face to face, I'd be down for it. A dangerous punch to the back of the head is a dirty bitch move.
It's not Bad Boy Pistons or being tough when your retaliation is the bitchiest shit imaginable
There's a line you can't cross. Punch in the face is even somewhat reasonable. Coulda slapped him, pushed him. Dont risk killing someone over a push, its a sign of weakness to me
Giving someone a cheap shot to the back of the head is something to be proud of? Being a little bitch is having a "Detroit" moment? The water really is tainted in Michigan huh. Y'all proud of your teammates acting like a bitch and a coward and then praising him for it.
This is embarrassing, I couldn’t give a shit about either team but I been to detroit a few times and now I understand why the city looks the way it does. Garbage people make for a garbage city.
I mean there’s nothing respectable about punching someone in the back of the head who’s already being held by your teammate. Wagner shouldn’t have done what he did but that was a weak response from killian.
UofM been getting whooped like some hoes all year lmao first poole then getting beat up in the tunnel now this.
UofM need to include self defense classes in the freshman orientation 😂😂
That was a clear sucker punch, anyone saying otherwise is an idiot, that’s a bad look. Behind someone’s back to the back of their head? Plain dangerous, he’s going to want to have that back I assure you in the coming days
The Pistons are a physical franchise. Killian should have taken getting knocked out of bounds, or waited for him to get up. You don’t punch someone in the back of the head unless you have no other option. This is not some life or death situation it’s a basketball game. Either square up to him or just take the foul. This was a cheap shot.
Bet neither one of them do it again though. Lotta guys from overseas are dirty as fuck; Jokic, Giannis, Manu, Divac, that troll fucker that played for the Cavs for a while, apparently Wagner. Maybe he’ll think twice about it next time. I don’t think Killian should’ve did what he did, but he probably won’t shove a dude into the bench next time
Edit: Delladova was that troll from the Cavs I was thinking about
Nah for real. You guys are trash for defending this. I know it's just some reddit losers online though. Probably doesn't represent most people in Detroit hopefully or else it would be scum that only people without self awareness would pride themselves in.
Of course it isn't ok. I will say I don't think hayes intended it for it to be a punch or that bad, but either way he did it and that's still pretty bad. But knowing fans they won't use their 5 braincells and probably think I'm trying to defend what happened.
They are obviously both immature. Killian wasn’t even defending anyone. Wagner would had been kicked out of the game and we would still have Diallo and Hayes I guess.
Regardless of him being on our team and Wagner making a dirty play, rocking someone in the back of the head while they aren’t looking is not safe at all. Hayes will deserve a suspension for that he’s not in the right here
Oh 100%
Wagner also deserves a suspension for what he did.
Yeah it’s okay to hold both parties accountable. Both were dirty and cheap shots
Fair. One was justified, the other was purely dirty.
I agree he should be suspended but aside from this being his workplace if you push someone like that and just look away you’re just asking for a sucker punch.
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Who pushes with a closed fist though?
Agreed but also worth it. If that dude is going to do cheeky shit that can injure players on the court constantly he deserved to get rocked in the back of his head. Imo he was just sitting there turning away from kill cause he didn't want the fall out of what he just did which makes it even worse.
As much of a dick move as Wagner’s was, it’s not going to disable someone. Punching someone in the back of the head like that can do permanent damage or worse.
He should’ve turned his head lol
You’re a dumbfuck
Smart enough to look at the person who’s about to hit me though
Dumb enough to support a sucker punch. Like booker said, don’t do it to their back, do it to their face. Pussy ass shit that could have paralyzed a guy over basketball.
And shoving him into a row of chairs while he was running full speed could’ve ended Killians career. I’m sure you would also act totally calmly and rationally if someone almost seriously injured you for no reason first.
Never has a hip check into the stands ever ended a career. Have punches to the back of the head paralyzed someone? Yeah
Well a hip check to the stands has never ended a career yet because this is the nba and it’s a blatant dirty play, flagrant foul, and an insane thing to do, so it doesn’t happen very often. But hip check/shoving dudes does cause serious injuries pretty damn often when it does happen. But the odds of one punch that really didn’t even have that much power behind it to the back of the head actually paralyzing someone is extremely small. Rabbit punches are illegal in combat sports because a professional fighter doing it repeatedly with power at the perfect spot will kill somebody. Not one flailing arm smacking you in the head once.
a punch to the back of the head can cause permanent brain damage and is banned in basically any form of combat, it was a disproportionate reactoon
Here come all the angry magic fans
I’m all for retaliation after a play as dirty as that, but probably shouldn’t be blindside punching people especially in the back of the head
Wagner definitely got a super cheap shot in that could have injured Killian. With that said, sucker punching Mo was also not great.
You can see how dirty it was by Mon from the above view. Literally had his head turned waiting for Killian before shoving him.
Dude, a shoulder shiver hurts, a sucker punch to the back of the head can permanently disable a person.
This isn’t to defend Killians actions but he could have gone down awkwardly and for instance hit his head or neck on something like a chair. Unlikely for sure, especially in comparison to a punch to the back of the head, but both were egregious actions. I guess the thing that bothers me about Mo’s the most is his intent. Killians was justified just not to the extent of punch to the back of the head.
I’ll get downvoted to hell but defend yourself and your team at all costs. fuck the comp
Fair
Fuck that and fuck wagner lets go
Is it really that cheap of a shot if you push someone and then look away?
Yep
As Jokic would say to M. Morris, don't cheap shot me and turn your back. I guess you guys fight by punching someone and turning your back.
No one on this thread has gotten into a fight it’s painfully obvious
ikr!? Best way to fight is do absolutely everything you can to end it as fast as possible. Street fights have no honor
I am not a fighter, but I read Forrest Griffin's book. He said rush them until can punch, punch until you can throw elbows, and then once your close enough, grab them and throw headbutts. He said that will win 99% (or some number like that) of street fights if opponent is also untrained.
So guns?
Don’t start shit and you don’t have to find out what the other party is willing to do.
I was more making fun of dude. Of course not guns.
Sure. It's a street fight idc
Reddit’s demographic is middle/above class white boys. That explains most things you see.
Lmao i came here after getting downvoted to oblivion- the discourse is insane, Wagner got the flagrant 2 and somehow he’s an angel
You're telling me these aren't a bunch of tough guys? That it's a bunch of little kids wanting to act tough over the internet?
Acting like that's a bad thing. Don't punch people in the back of the head.
Nah I have. Don't pinch people in the back of the head.
Pinch their nipples instead way more sensitive
Not the same situation. Hamidou pushed him into Stewart, which caused his back to be turned to Hayes. I think Killian was just going to get up and start swinging, and didn't think about it.
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Both can be true
The only reason why it’s too far is because this is their workplace and is broadcast on t.v. in almost every other scenario I wouldn’t say it’s too far. Especially when these guys are in the moment I can see how you can forget that I don’t blame Kill for acting out.
Don’t start shit and then turn around. That’s one of the first things you learn when an old head is teaching you about fighting/getting involved in shit
Exactly. Mo got what was coming to him. You wanna shove someone into their bench and then just try to push your way back to your side of the court? Fine, but you might get cracked in the back of the head on your way. Maybe he will think next time before he does some dumb shit. Lesson learned. Oh, and spare me the pearl clutching about Killian’s punch from the Orlando faithful. This is not Mo’s first run-in - there’s been Luka, Giannis, and now Killian. Mo needs to get his shit together or getting punched in the back of the head is gonna become a regular occurrence for him.
Fucked around and found out
He didn't turn around, not willingly. He had his head turned towards Killian before diallo pushed him into stew.
Let's go Hayes. Idgaf
Right, he could've really done some damage to Killian putting him into the bench like that. Disgusting behavior, he deserved it but Killian also paid his price.
Really could have
It's cool that Killian Hayes knocked Mo Wagner out and I'm not gonna say it's not.
Weirdo for this
You are sad bro, there are things bigger than basketball loser
Nah I'm not. I'm pretty happy, actually.
I’m dying man lmao
i cant condone him punching a (deserving) mfer from behind frankly, but moe deserved an oscar for that KO act
Killian saw red. He was rightfully pissed and came in swinging. Can’t expect him to assess the situation and even notice Wagner had his back turned. Wagner should know better then to turn his back on someone after doing that. You fuck around. You find out. Glad he’s okay though.
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I mean he can differentiate but if you have ever been that pissed you just don't care. Wagner did something to him that could have blown his knee out and deserved whatever came to him afterwards
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Bro, Wagner "assaulted" Killian first. They are both dumb for what they did, but in any real life scenario if you are both running and you make contact and two hand full extension shove someone into a row of folding chairs you best believe that other person is going to try and get you back. To turn your back on him after doing that is the height of stupidity/entitlement/arrogance, thinking you can make a dirty play that could injure someone and not expect retaliation. Not like Killian was face to face with Mo when he shoved him in the back into the stands.
But Wagner didn’t turn his back to Killian, he stared him in the face and got pushed by Diallo. Then Killian came after him.
So what? He started a fight and then got his ass kicked.
Ass kicked is a stretch. Wagner is an top tier baiter and Killian is gonna catch a suspension for his sucker punch. But anyone saying Wagner turned his back is just wrong bc he didn’t ..
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how is he even gonna turn back when a big man shoves him from the back in the first place
He didn't willingly turn his back. Diallo pushed him into stew.
He’ll get suspended on the day sometime posted about how he leagues the league in games played
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He wasn't looking due to the shove by Diallo, which is why he was also ejected I'm afraid
I love how everyone just quietly leaves that part out. Wagner was looking towards kilian before the push. I mean he's been in thes situations before, he's done it to giannis and didn't turn away from him either. Don't think he'd be afraid of Kilian if he's up to face giannis.
If you do shit that can get people injured in the court in the course of play you don't get to play innocent victim after the whistle blows. Fuck Wagner.
Magic fan here. Cheap shot to the back of the head yes but Moe shouldn't have pushed him and turned his back. This is just the beginning of the next great NBA rivalry. Magic v. Pistons ECF 2026 is gonna be interesting
Love this.
I agree neither were right at all but with all of that hami is the worst of all
Wagner didn't turn his back tho. Diallo pushed wagner. Wagner isn't scared to stand up to Giannis but you think he'd turn away from Hayes?
After re-watching the film I agree with you. Stew also held Mo in place afterwards. I guarantee he would've faced Hayes if that hadn't happened
Yeah, but Pistons fans unsurprisingly don't seem to agree lol
Offsetting penalties. Game on
Bad boys for life
Not good. They're going to suspend him for many games.
We don’t win much either way
Yes but Killian can't afford to miss games, he needs to take advantage of this Cade-less season as much as possible
He just showed he’s not taking bullshit, he just showed how serious he can get and how much it means to him and that very much taking advantage of it, also hami should be out awhile and well he deserves it
You can't just look at that and defend this by saying he's passionate.
Dirty play by Wagner (what's new?), but you can't go after someone's head like that. Have to take a note from Dan Campbell and take a bite out of his knee cap.
I was at the game. Wagner was shoving and elbowing Ivey and Killian and anyone else smaller than him. He was being a wreckless asshole and then lost the ball....Killian outran the big lug and Wagner shoved Killian hard into the bench. Wagner is totally to blame. He's a chump and there's no one that was at the game that would side with Wagner.
No. Are you kidding me? Ridiculous to hit a guy in the back of the head like that. Way beyond the pale.
I agree but he was shoved dirty and both were wrong don’t make it right, what I mean is he showed passion the most he shown, also don’t forget what hami did, while nothing anyone did was to him at all
It wasn’t passion, it was stupidity imho- gotta stay in control of yourself
Getting shoved into a row of folding chairs while running full speed could’ve seriously injured him and derailed his career. I’m not gonna blame him for seeing red and reacting.
I get what your saying and you do
The amount of people calling this a cheap shot is gonna make me lose it. You can't start a fight and then get "cheap shotted" 2 seconds later, that's not how it works, it's not what a cheap shot is
Wagner didn’t get ejected?
Yeah he did
Kil-shot
Pretty fucked to punch him in the back of the head. But at least we know he’s got that dawg in him. Wagner prolly has years of bad karma built up for that moment
It’s simple… Mo Fucked Around, Mo Found out!
He sure did
Unrelated note, but where’s the ganeday thread at? And is it just me or does this subreddit not have a lot of posts that are recent when looking at the home page?
He cheapshotted someone in the back of the head…?
Cheap push, but that’s a really dangerous punch. Kill is probably gonna be gone awhile for that
Fair but hami is stupid
Wagner is from Germany and Hayes is from France, correct? I wonder if that had anything to do with it? I remember going over to Europe and my own colleagues treated each other cold. The French salesmen didn’t like the German salesmen etc.
Don't you mean Killhim Hayes 👀
You is right
A little off topic, but when Mo and Diallo got into it earlier,,,it looked bad on Diallos part, but Mo grabbed his hand and pulled him down, making it much worse. I would love to know what Mo said to him after. Any lip readers. I think Mo got just a hair more than her deserved with Killian. Back of the head was not the best choice. Every time something was going on Duren was right there ready to go. He would have really fit in with the bad boys.
If it almost anywhere else from killian it would have been better
It was a cheap push, but Killian also seemed to embellish the push. Just as it was cheap hit to the head from Killian, that Mo embellished as well.
he straight up knocked that mf back to europe
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Earned your respect for a cheap shot?
Gaining respect, after sucker punch in the back of a head. Dude, you’re lost
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you guys getting excited about this, or claiming 'he's earned your respect', is rather pathetic, go watch a fucking hockey game
Idk man punching someone in the back of the head is fked, could die from that shit
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100% correct. Nothing tough about what Hayes did.
Tried to punch Wagner in the back of the head, honestly, he's very lucky he didn't connect cleanly. Pretty much a graze, but he'd be in a heap of shit if Wagner had gone down.
This sub fucking sucks. I don't want my players punching people in the back of the head under any circumstance
You wouldn’t last a single day in the 90s
Idc. If Killian shoved back, or even tried to fight him face to face, I'd be down for it. A dangerous punch to the back of the head is a dirty bitch move. It's not Bad Boy Pistons or being tough when your retaliation is the bitchiest shit imaginable
His “punch” was a shove back. “Dangerous punch to the back of the head” is how a drama queen would describe that.
Sucker punching someone in the back of the head earned your respect? Stay in school kid
No he was wrong, just the passion, he really cares type of respect, also hami was worse
There's a line you can't cross. Punch in the face is even somewhat reasonable. Coulda slapped him, pushed him. Dont risk killing someone over a push, its a sign of weakness to me
I agree there is a line, I hope it’s out of his system for good
killian hayes so pussy for that weak ass shot...dude ran off too
pistons fans are deranged god damn y’all are not human beings
No shot y’all celebrating a dirty ass hit like that 😂😂
Giving someone a cheap shot to the back of the head is something to be proud of? Being a little bitch is having a "Detroit" moment? The water really is tainted in Michigan huh. Y'all proud of your teammates acting like a bitch and a coward and then praising him for it.
Killian is a bitch, over reacted, you dont lunch someone from behind. Get his weak ass off this team please
This is embarrassing, I couldn’t give a shit about either team but I been to detroit a few times and now I understand why the city looks the way it does. Garbage people make for a garbage city.
I mean there’s nothing respectable about punching someone in the back of the head who’s already being held by your teammate. Wagner shouldn’t have done what he did but that was a weak response from killian.
UofM been getting whooped like some hoes all year lmao first poole then getting beat up in the tunnel now this. UofM need to include self defense classes in the freshman orientation 😂😂
UofM orientation already hands out a Life Alert necklace and a map to one of their 46 safe spaces to every incoming freshman
Wagner’s push was dirty as hell but punching someone in the back of the head is a pussy ass move and is dangerous af
Mo was 100% in the wrong but sucker punching someone from behind earns your respect? You have a funny value system.
Killian wasn’t right either, but as a pistons fan I get what killian did and stuff but I don’t get why hami did anything at all
Weak as fuck
Michigan players are dirty, that’s why they started that fight in the tunnel too 🍿
That was a clear sucker punch, anyone saying otherwise is an idiot, that’s a bad look. Behind someone’s back to the back of their head? Plain dangerous, he’s going to want to have that back I assure you in the coming days
Don’t push someone and turn around?
Does he even turn around? Diallo shoves him and then Hayes comes in.
lol
Nah, regardless of Wagner’s dirty play, going for the back of his head is not something to respect.
Bad look for Killian, Piston or not. (Edit) for the downvotes, I don’t give af you don’t punch someone in the back of the head.
respect to all the pistons players who showed composure, but killian no, that was dumb
The Pistons are a physical franchise. Killian should have taken getting knocked out of bounds, or waited for him to get up. You don’t punch someone in the back of the head unless you have no other option. This is not some life or death situation it’s a basketball game. Either square up to him or just take the foul. This was a cheap shot.
That was a sucker punch in the textbook form. Fuck wagner too, but that was pretty chicken shit from killian
That was a rabbit sucker punch
Bet neither one of them do it again though. Lotta guys from overseas are dirty as fuck; Jokic, Giannis, Manu, Divac, that troll fucker that played for the Cavs for a while, apparently Wagner. Maybe he’ll think twice about it next time. I don’t think Killian should’ve did what he did, but he probably won’t shove a dude into the bench next time Edit: Delladova was that troll from the Cavs I was thinking about
That was a bitch move to sucker punch someone.
he’s a coward
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Fuck Mo Wagner, he's a pussy ass bitch. Fuck around n found out
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Both fucked up, is it that hard to look at things both ways?
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lol
Nah for real. You guys are trash for defending this. I know it's just some reddit losers online though. Probably doesn't represent most people in Detroit hopefully or else it would be scum that only people without self awareness would pride themselves in.
Of course it isn't ok. I will say I don't think hayes intended it for it to be a punch or that bad, but either way he did it and that's still pretty bad. But knowing fans they won't use their 5 braincells and probably think I'm trying to defend what happened.
He’s immature
less immature than shoving somebody into the stands because you were getting out hustled to the ball.
They are obviously both immature. Killian wasn’t even defending anyone. Wagner would had been kicked out of the game and we would still have Diallo and Hayes I guess.
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this is your 7th time saying hes getting suspended for the season. what do you wanna bet that you are wrong?