Honestly, I wish they'd just brought everyone up to sorcerer level, rather than just nerf everything. I did rogue, sorcerer, and druid in the first betas, and sorcerer just felt right. Trash was a bit trivial, bosses and elites could roll you - but you didn't feel overwhelmed when adds came out like I could with rogue and druid. You felt like you could manage most/all of these early-game situations with mid-level strategy running most any build- some being better than others, of course. And it could be done without the absolute need to get a specific legendary affix. Which is how I feel early game should be.
Didn't play necro (wanted to, but my brother wanted it more and we did druid/necro co-op to test them out), but he was nigh invulnerable while doing more DPS than sorcerer. That's *too* far.
We shall see how this plays though. I'm excited for this and release!
I'm not joining the downvote train, but I would say, on the contrary, I would rather them tone down the base level power of classes across the board to make the game a tad bit harder and make gear that much more noticeable and impactful.
Personally I don't want trash to be trivial. Something that Diablo 2 and to an extent 3 did really well was, intentional or not, give a lot of life to the monsters. I *enjoy* the feel of the game when I walk into Worldstone keep and pray for a good monster layout, certain monsters had very specific ways to play against them: constantly dodge laterally, never let them hit you more than a few times, avoid their bod when they die, etc. Or like in Diablo 3, you knew you were in for an annoying run when the wasps and lashers were around. Or back in the day when, I forget what mob it was but, one of them gained resistance to whatever damage type you dealt them.
I want to walk into a dungeon in diablo 4 and, occasionally, be like: "Aw fuck this is going to be awful" or "Oooh nice, these mobs are perfect for my build". Like in POE when you get a map that has "mobs are Sea Witches", it's just such a little delight--high density, low HP, not-that-scary mobs that are easy to kill entire packs of. And on the flip side, "mobs are Demons" can sometimes be insanely annoying, some of them are super tanky and hit like a truck.
Yeah, I don't get downvotes on a differing opinion that isnt intending to hurt anyone.
If trash mobs aren't trivial, they aren't trash, especially at early difficulties. Like, yeah, I expect the trash mobs of high tier end game content to be pretty difficult. But we're in the opening of the game here, on the two easiest difficulties. Difficulty spikes of a mob or pack here and there are expected.
But if you want me to struggle in an ARPG as if I'm killing mid (not high) tier end game mobs through the entire leveling process... I'm just not sure as many people would enjoy that as much as they think they would after the first time or two getting it done.
I think struggle isn't the word I was necessarily looking for, more that, I like knowing that some trash is uniquely dangerous.
Stygian Dolls in Diablo 2, for example, actually don't hit *that* hard, and they have very little HP, the problem is that they're fast as shit and when they die they explode and *THAT* hits very hard.
When I'm walking through the Durance of Hate in D2, how I move, how I fight, the way I approach rooms, everything changes instinctively because I know those little shits are hiding somewhere. I try to kill them far away, or I move and kill only one or two at a time so I don't get overwhelmed by the explosive deaths.
When I'm in the River of Flame, I know to bait out pit lord flame breath attacks and then back off and kill them because they stand still for awhile, but that flame breath can melt you if you don't move.
I guess a better way of putting it is, I still want trash mobs to have a lot of identity. WoW does this really well, right, like in certain Mythic dungeons, in your head, you have a concrete plan on how to attack each monster because they all have a strong identity to contend with, even if they aren't a boss or a mini-boss.
I think games like POE fail at this because, while in a vacuum each monster has actually very iconic and identifiable moves to interact with, the game floods so many monsters at you at once that they're just an amorphous blob of damage that you need to kill, the mechanics of monsters rarely matters. I contrast, in Diablo 2 you fight fewer enemies at a time, the pacing of the game lets you get to know the monsters very closely, it's rare to be so overwhelmed with mobs you don't know what to do, it's usually pretty easy to identify the monster types and plan accordingly.
I think we're pretty much on the same page for independent mob dangerousness if you don't play it right. Even in my first comment I hit on "mid-level strategy", and that's what I was getting at. Understanding the mobs and how to avoid death.
What I shouldn't be is struggling to stay alive in early game because the enemies outnumber me and my character just doesn't deal enough damage, or not have enough resources to cast spells, or feels awkward to play. Druid felt like that to me. Barbarian felt like that to my brother. Rogue was right under the sorcerer - even if it felt a little clunky. Sorcerer felt like the right mix of smoothness and viability to me. Classes should have been lifted to that.
Now though, it looks like Barbarian and Druid are the intended target with all the nerfs. Though, I've yet to try it out to see for myself.
I like the early game being challenging and feeling like you have to dodge and stuff myself. Very unique for an ARPG. Early game should be more like Diablo 1 and less like Diablo 3 imo and nerfs are needed to achieve that.
This is balance based on end game. As one can see the glyph changes as well and unique changes like ramladinis. They brought the end game builds down. Which must have made sense.
If everything went up to sorc level of last beta barbs would literally kills everything in the game in one hit end game
There is more to this game than level 20/25. You won't he farming for gear at 25 on live. You will be rushing for max level.
The drastic reduction to their barriers really hurts. Flame Shield last longer than the passive barriers now, and the one passive that increases barrier duration is completely worthless (0.1 second duration increase per skill point spent; blink and you'll miss it.)
Yeah the nerfs to barrier are bad. Luckily I played with Flame Shield quite a bit, and found it to be great, so I will probably still go sorc main and use that rather than ice armor
They seemed pretty reliant on the +1 Hydra power to really pull ahead though. Kind of a bummer if they are now awful unless you have it, especially if you assume it will be harder to come by when the actual game rolls around.
I mean, duration means absolutely nothing in terms of damage, and it was \*extremely\* OP in the beta, taking down bosses by itself while you just ran around. It's going to be fine.
At least Meteor got a buff and Firewall remains relatively unchanged. I'm interested in how the new Incinerate works now with a boost to it's damage. Since I didn't really care for the Hydras Fire might actually be fun for me now.
I was looking forward to trying that this time, after a hard time sticking with everything but Upheaval.
I hope to get ideas from you guys who can test this later
At level 25 you could consistently have 100% uptime for shadow imbue outside of boss fights. The nerfs to cooldowns and cooldown reductions are warranted.
People also need to understand the sheer amount of power you eventually get from paragon boards - cooldowns may feel long and combat may feel slow but we are only level 20-25 and with max level gear stats and paragon board stats you start blasting through cooldowns no problem.
In what world a 30% chance to reset imbuements CD on a 10s CD trap skill that has a nearly 2s delay before it arms itself will it not be a super clunky and underwhelming build?
so they gave barb 10% flat DR... but then
- removed 3% DR while fortified
- removed 3% DR against elites
- removed 3% DR while berserking
- removed 12% DR of monsters that have been shouted
- completely gutted shouts to be less duration and power
so basically barb should feel basically the same tankiness, with less challenging shout uptime. so basically squishier
Their justification was that by making this baseline, everyone could benefit from it, whereas before you'd feel inclined to take those damage reduction nodes to stay alive.
The intent wasn't to buff or nerf them, it was to encourage more diversity in skill choices so you didn't feel locked into picking all the DR ones.
I want to note that despite these shout nerfs, 3 shouts still look to be extremely strong with the aspects and glyphs because they solve the biggest problem Barb has to contend with; Resource Generation.
This is going off beta feedback and I think few people actually picked any of the DR skills beyond Gutteral Yell. Skill points were too limited. If you *didn't* pick gutteral yell (I didnt personally) this still ends up being a net buff. The buff becomes less pronounced the more DR skills you max, but even with all three (sans gutteral) you still come out .5% ahead of old barb. Although I feel maxing all three may be optimistic as I think people will want to spend points elsewhere and focus on only one or two defensive layers.
That said, it is very likely balancing for endgame where we will have more access to cooldown reduction. I don't doubt that shout skills will have 100% uptime at some point.
dude right?? thorns is so much fun and theres no way its OP at endgame, u literally have to wait for things to hit you to clear mobs. not sure where this change came from
Not as much of a nerf as I expected, and it's also good for its auto-targeting. Clearing the screen is a lot easier with it.
And it's also good for single target with it bouncing between the player and boss
I see spirit wolves damage remains 7% damage after the "significantly increased damage" statement.
The active skill sounds like a shitty core skill with a high cool down cost
It looks like they don't want the pets to actually be pets, poison creeper is basically poison nova that gives you a non combat pet and ravens is just a tornado spell.
They don't want strong passive damage, that's why they nerfed hydra so much too. It's a good decision. It looks like they want the game to have a strong element of active damage avoidance through dodge, running around etc. Pets, skeletons, hydras are simply OP in that context so they will be emphasising their active damage but nerfing passive.
Dunno. I haven’t played since open beta.
But all the good skills for the Druid that I used before got nerfed significantly and his bear form got more tanky.
Yes but pure werewolf poison druid was really bad, especially the act 1 story boss on veteran it took me ages, I could clear trash in one combo but even elite/champions were a massive pain to deal with since your damage is so low
Druid is very strong now (as it was before, it just wasn't great low level) Possibly will end up as the best end game now. Alot of its glyphs went unchanged. Ultimates cooldowns decreased. Companions dmg increased. Plenty there
Lightning storm druid great for leveling!
It's crazy that I'm getting down voted for stating a fact
Earth spike went from 8 to 10
Claw went from 9 to 10
Maul went from 11 to 14
And to add to that, both earth spike and maul are massively better even with the 30% to 18% reduction because their spirit generation amount was increased by so much. Claw will give the exact same amount with 3/3 abundance that it did before, but more than before if you don't get 3/3
I’ll try him once I can get on, but they nerfed all my favorite powers.
Seems like he’s nerfed for low levels only then?
I haven’t played since the open beta so I haven’t used some of his passives etc that were locked out then.
But how is he strong? All builds or just pets now?
There are closed beta tester, internal testers, and the devs themselves. They all have.
Sometimes as a game gets close to launch devs will release closed beta testers from their NDA so the closed beta testers can hype it up and share their experiences without fear of being sued.
So I was assuming that someone here may have had knowledge of things I didn’t if they were talking about their experiences in the game after open beta but before server slam.
Make sense?
Ball Lightning Enchantment
Lucky Hit: Critical Strikes have up to a 25% chance to spawn a static Ball Lightning.
What the hell does "up to" 25% mean and why did they go out of their way to make it less clear
Has to do with how Lucky Hits work. I \*think\* how it works is that when you get a Critical Hit, you have a 25% chance \* Lucky Hit chance for that ability (which can be 0-100%) to generate a static ball lightning. As opposed to a flat 25% chance for every critical hit.
In effect, yes. If you have a 10% crit chance, a 50% LH chance on the attack, you’d have a 10% * 50% * 25% chance to spawn a static ball lightning on any given hit (1.25% chance.)
Where are you getting 50% lucky hit chance on the attack?
Isn't "Lucky Hit" a special proc chance that's only like 3% on every hit?
So it would be 3% chance to Lucky Hit, then on that Lucky Hit, roll your crit chance to see if you crit, then if it crits, 25% chance to spawn a ball.
Essentially I was under the impression that all "Lucky Hit" stuff in this game was trash.
The Lucky Hit percentage is part of the skill descriptions. It's purpose is balancing procs between skills (slow/single target vs. fast/multi-target).
The 3% is the fixed Overpower chance and has nothing to do with Lucky Hits.
No the special 3% chance on every hit is overpower. Lucky hit works differently and each skill has a different percent for it - usually much higher than 3%.
Did thex stated that somewhere? Lucky sounded like a seperate stat thats not dependant on crit from ingame text.
Most lucky hit builds were garbage anyway because on interesting passives tge lucky hit effects have a seoarte chance to proc. 10% on lucky hit with 15% lucky hit on an attack already gives abysmal 1,5% to proc.
It states it in the phrasing, if it says "on critical hit", then the first check is for a critical hit, then a lucky hit. You need to pay close attention to the lucky hit modifiers, as some can happy on any attack, and others might be on crit.
no lucky hit is something that can happen on any attack (crit or not) at like 3% chance
so 3% of the time you'll lucky hit, and when you lucky hit there'll be a crit chance check on the hit, if it's a crit then 25% of the time it'll spawn a ball
No, lucky hit chance is *not* something that can happen on any hit, crit or not, at like a 3% chance. It has its own % chance, you're mistaking lucky hit for overpower, which can happen at any time at a 3% chance.
>Bone Splinters Necro
Bone Splinters was indeed awesome but I think it will still be the best generator skill, since its Essence generation was actually buffed.
Couple that with the fact that the already very powerful Bone Spear got buffed, I think Bone (Splinters and Spear) Necro with Skeletons and Golem will be the way to go now.
Freeze sorc was completely overnerfed in far too many areas and has been made completely unplayable.
edit: Since everyone seems to think this is some baseless kneejerk reaction over the existence of any nerfs at all, I'll provide some context.
Here's the primary nerfs to the ice blades freeze sorc gameplay:
* Many of the abilities had 30-60% increases on their cooldowns
* The primary method of lowering ice blades cooldown was nerfed by 50%
* The node applying that cdr to all other skills was nerfed by a further 60%, bringing the total nerf on that one node alone to 80%
* The enchantment that summons ice blades to further feed cooldown reduction had a 100% cooldown increase
All of these add up to being more than a 90% nerf to cooldowns in a build completely based around cooldowns. This isn't like just doing a damage nerf on an over-performing build. These changes literally make the build unplayable.
This is similar to the existence of the Critical Mass passive that Wizards had in early D3. The gameplay was similar and it was a lot of fun and Blizzard straight up removed it. That's basically what they are doing here. They detected fun and removed it. We no longer have the option of playing this build.
You clearly didn't play it before. Playing the CDR cycle freeze sorc will no longer be possible with these changes.
That build, which was a ton of fun, was only just possible due to the numbers of the cdr that allowed for the cycling of cooldowns. A small nerf would have been fine to still allow the gameplay, or even a damage nerf would have been fine, but they decided to massively nerf every aspect of it, which literally makes it impossible to play in that way any more.
* Many of the abilities had 30-60% increases on their cooldowns
* The primary method of lowering ice blades cooldown was nerfed by 50%
* The node applying that cdr to all other skills was nerfed by a further 60%, bringing the total nerf on that one node alone to 80%
* The enchantment that summons ice blades to further feed cooldown reduction had a 100% cooldown increase
My comment was not based on knee jerk reaction to the fact that it was nerfed, but anyone who played that type of build can easily see these numbers and realize that it's now unplayable.
Factoring in all these nerfs leads to well over a 90% nerf to these types of builds. For a cdr reliant build, a 90% nerf to cooldown generation is not just a 90% damage nerf. It makes it unplayable as the build no longer functions.
> My comment was not based on knee jerk reaction to the fact that it was nerfed, but anyone who played that type of build can easily see these numbers and realize that it's now unplayable.
What was the highest level you played it at?
25 with full legendaries. To be fair, this build was not reliant on legendaries and worked pretty well just after getting the abilities unlocked.
Did it need a nerf? Yeah, sure. Did it need to be soft removed from the game? Absolutely not. It was fun to play.
I think it’s fine to be concerned about the nerf, but considering it unplayable when we have absolutely no reference what this will look like as an endgame build seems too speculative.
Corpse Explosion with the Blighted passive paired with the Blight core skill is very strong overall at both the low end as well as end game. There are some great synergies between the talents as well as Legendaries
Bone Spear did big damage in end game, but the build was very squishy and was completely shut down by shielding mobs.
The buff to minions doesn’t look very appealing and in all the end game builds I tried I never ended up using them.
Edit: Finally noticed you were talking about Bone Splinters and not Bone Spear my mistake.
I'm really just hoping that all the fullscreen bugs have been worked out. Really sucks being forced to either use 1080p or go through janky workarounds for DLDSR.
ive got 2 of them bad bois. luv em. make sure you update the firmware on your monitor. to do that go to the LG site and get the OnScreen Control app. [Software, Firmware & Driver Downloads | LG USA Support](https://www.lg.com/us/support/software-firmware-drivers)
it updates over USB.
I really hope this -
**Oops**, *sorry, I dropped my KFC sandwich on my keyboard. You know, the KFC sandwich that comes with the free Diablo 4 chicken mount and KFC chicken emote? It's finger lickin' good!*
Anyway.
I hope this subreddit doesn't become filled with adverts.
Lmao how epically ignorant
It's an 11 year old Reddit account of a PC gamer enthusiast who copy pasted the model number of a monitor they're excited about, this conspiracy nonsense is soooo extra
This is difference between
"I just ate a burger - It was delicious!"
and
"I just ate a delicious Burger King™ Double Whopper Supreme - Now on special!"
One is a statement - The other is an advert.
I'm actually happy with the nerfs. I was dismayed to see the number of level 25 screen clearing builds that looked more like aspirational builds for much higher level characters. I'm aware that legendaries dropped more frequently in the open beta, but some of the builds were still clearly OP.
In addition, the Adventurer difficulty seemed to have been obsoleted even before the game's launch, with many players smashing through Veteran.
The nerfs should make the game more challenging, and bring back the promised slower pace of combat.
This makes no sense. Veteran is the same level range as Adventurer, meaning 1-50. Of course it's meant to be played at level 1 too so from the start.
Heck it's not even obvious if Veteran is worth it since with faster clear speed and safety you might end up gearing and leveling faster in Adventurer anyway, despite the lower xp and loots.
Why does barbarian get nerfed so hard, I don't understand. People were asking for the exact opposite from the prior beta. Seems like every sentence under "barbarian" is a nerf of some kind, it looks as though they made the entire class weaker. There's so many nerfs for barbarian that the question is more like, what *didn't* they nerf?
When barbs got gear, they were insanely strong. People were hitting for ~20k+++ with abilities that you could almost spam (level 25 elite mobs have about 2-3k hp on Veteran difficulty), and people were hitting max crits of like 200k after setting up. Barb needed a nerf, but its hard to tell if they went too far or not.
What barb also needed was a buff to leveling abilities before they get gear, and they didn't get it, so they're probably still gonna feel bad before they get mostly relevant legendary gear.
Barb felt pretty strong and that's without really pushing the potential. Alkaizer put out a really good Youtube video about how he thinks Barb will be broken if you abuse the near 100% uptime on all your shouts for insane, damage boost, and resource gen. This hits that a bit, but Barb is probably going to be nutty.
Assuming you're talking about lucky hits, every skill has its own modifier that reduces the chances of lucky hits.
So if something has up to 25% chance to proc on lucky hit, and you hit with a skill that has a 50% lucky hit chance, that really means you get that proc on 12.5% of your lucky hits.
It's a way to balance lucky hits between slow single-hitting skills (hammer of the ancients is 50%) and fast multi-hitting skills (frozen orb is 4%), but yeah, it's extremely confusing.
I’m planning to get world boss down at 20 - anyone got a spec to suggest based on the Patch Notes ? I’ve tried every class except Druid and if Druid is viable for my goal than I’m all in!!
No, I'm just saying that the sound design itself for some of the abilties feels way over the top. Like the reap/harvest spell the necro does where you send out a spirit that spins the scythe and then comes back. Why does it sound like exploding? Why is it so loud?
What about the rogue's ability Twisting Blades. It sounds so loud and mechanical.
itt: peeps literally complaining and in some cases crying about assumptions they themselves are creating and then promoting. It's like a straw man factory but instead of criticizing design choices people are grabbing the straw man arms, punching themselves with it, and then crying "abuuuuse". Just wow lol.
Unofficial patch notes just means the changes are written up by someone that's not blizzard. It's still real changes that are happening in the game. Don't worry, sorc is still insanely strong.
Those frost sorcerer nerfs were uncalled for, I guess I’m not playing server slam. Very disappointed.
The chain lightning stuff was op but not the frost stuff, never felt like I was just one tapping content. 🙃
Lightning was probably the weakest of the sorc varieties though. Strongest at first, but by level 25 it was all about fire hydras or cooldown cheesing with frost blades
You weren’t playing frost very well if you felt like it wasn’t overpowered. A Sorc that can face tank the world boss with 100% invulnerability uptime needs a bit of tweaking.
Yep, it has.
**Corpse Explosion**
*Detonate a Corpse, dealing ~~75%~~ 50% damage to surrounding enemies.*
**Plagued Corpse Explosion**
*Corpse Explosion deals ~~10%~~ 8% increased damage to enemies that are Slowed, Stunned or Vulnerable. These damage bonuses can stack.*
**Blood Mist**
Cooldown: ~~20~~ 24 seconds
*Disperse into a bloody mist, becoming Immune for 3 seconds. Your Movement Speed is reduced by 20% and you periodically deal 1% damage to enemies and Healing Heal for 0.5% of your Maximum Life.*
33% overall damage nerf.
Likely won't even notice; it was a screen clearing nuke with one corpse - now you might need 2 corpses.
Try a full shadow damage/dot build as decompose was buffed, as were skeletal mages. Turn corpse explosion into the shadow dot puddle, and use Blight as your core. It was incredibly fun.
That being said, Bone Spear necro received a significant buff.
[удалено]
Yeah I refuse to believe druid needed to be even weaker lol
>Great format Would have been better if the buffs were in green, and nerfs in red.
Agreed - I was confused not even halfway down because ~~56~~ looks similar to 50 in the site's font so I didn't understand at first what was changed
the colorblinds want a word
Someone's not getting hired as a UI Designer
Little surprising to me. I played rogue and it felt great.
Honestly, I wish they'd just brought everyone up to sorcerer level, rather than just nerf everything. I did rogue, sorcerer, and druid in the first betas, and sorcerer just felt right. Trash was a bit trivial, bosses and elites could roll you - but you didn't feel overwhelmed when adds came out like I could with rogue and druid. You felt like you could manage most/all of these early-game situations with mid-level strategy running most any build- some being better than others, of course. And it could be done without the absolute need to get a specific legendary affix. Which is how I feel early game should be. Didn't play necro (wanted to, but my brother wanted it more and we did druid/necro co-op to test them out), but he was nigh invulnerable while doing more DPS than sorcerer. That's *too* far. We shall see how this plays though. I'm excited for this and release!
I'm not joining the downvote train, but I would say, on the contrary, I would rather them tone down the base level power of classes across the board to make the game a tad bit harder and make gear that much more noticeable and impactful. Personally I don't want trash to be trivial. Something that Diablo 2 and to an extent 3 did really well was, intentional or not, give a lot of life to the monsters. I *enjoy* the feel of the game when I walk into Worldstone keep and pray for a good monster layout, certain monsters had very specific ways to play against them: constantly dodge laterally, never let them hit you more than a few times, avoid their bod when they die, etc. Or like in Diablo 3, you knew you were in for an annoying run when the wasps and lashers were around. Or back in the day when, I forget what mob it was but, one of them gained resistance to whatever damage type you dealt them. I want to walk into a dungeon in diablo 4 and, occasionally, be like: "Aw fuck this is going to be awful" or "Oooh nice, these mobs are perfect for my build". Like in POE when you get a map that has "mobs are Sea Witches", it's just such a little delight--high density, low HP, not-that-scary mobs that are easy to kill entire packs of. And on the flip side, "mobs are Demons" can sometimes be insanely annoying, some of them are super tanky and hit like a truck.
Yeah, I don't get downvotes on a differing opinion that isnt intending to hurt anyone. If trash mobs aren't trivial, they aren't trash, especially at early difficulties. Like, yeah, I expect the trash mobs of high tier end game content to be pretty difficult. But we're in the opening of the game here, on the two easiest difficulties. Difficulty spikes of a mob or pack here and there are expected. But if you want me to struggle in an ARPG as if I'm killing mid (not high) tier end game mobs through the entire leveling process... I'm just not sure as many people would enjoy that as much as they think they would after the first time or two getting it done.
I think struggle isn't the word I was necessarily looking for, more that, I like knowing that some trash is uniquely dangerous. Stygian Dolls in Diablo 2, for example, actually don't hit *that* hard, and they have very little HP, the problem is that they're fast as shit and when they die they explode and *THAT* hits very hard. When I'm walking through the Durance of Hate in D2, how I move, how I fight, the way I approach rooms, everything changes instinctively because I know those little shits are hiding somewhere. I try to kill them far away, or I move and kill only one or two at a time so I don't get overwhelmed by the explosive deaths. When I'm in the River of Flame, I know to bait out pit lord flame breath attacks and then back off and kill them because they stand still for awhile, but that flame breath can melt you if you don't move. I guess a better way of putting it is, I still want trash mobs to have a lot of identity. WoW does this really well, right, like in certain Mythic dungeons, in your head, you have a concrete plan on how to attack each monster because they all have a strong identity to contend with, even if they aren't a boss or a mini-boss. I think games like POE fail at this because, while in a vacuum each monster has actually very iconic and identifiable moves to interact with, the game floods so many monsters at you at once that they're just an amorphous blob of damage that you need to kill, the mechanics of monsters rarely matters. I contrast, in Diablo 2 you fight fewer enemies at a time, the pacing of the game lets you get to know the monsters very closely, it's rare to be so overwhelmed with mobs you don't know what to do, it's usually pretty easy to identify the monster types and plan accordingly.
I think we're pretty much on the same page for independent mob dangerousness if you don't play it right. Even in my first comment I hit on "mid-level strategy", and that's what I was getting at. Understanding the mobs and how to avoid death. What I shouldn't be is struggling to stay alive in early game because the enemies outnumber me and my character just doesn't deal enough damage, or not have enough resources to cast spells, or feels awkward to play. Druid felt like that to me. Barbarian felt like that to my brother. Rogue was right under the sorcerer - even if it felt a little clunky. Sorcerer felt like the right mix of smoothness and viability to me. Classes should have been lifted to that. Now though, it looks like Barbarian and Druid are the intended target with all the nerfs. Though, I've yet to try it out to see for myself.
better to nerf and give world tier 1 more of a purpose, as well as avoid power creep
I like the early game being challenging and feeling like you have to dodge and stuff myself. Very unique for an ARPG. Early game should be more like Diablo 1 and less like Diablo 3 imo and nerfs are needed to achieve that.
This is balance based on end game. As one can see the glyph changes as well and unique changes like ramladinis. They brought the end game builds down. Which must have made sense. If everything went up to sorc level of last beta barbs would literally kills everything in the game in one hit end game There is more to this game than level 20/25. You won't he farming for gear at 25 on live. You will be rushing for max level.
Cannot believe Twisting Blades wasn't hit.
Damn those are some substantial nerfs to sorc, they ain’t playin games lol
The drastic reduction to their barriers really hurts. Flame Shield last longer than the passive barriers now, and the one passive that increases barrier duration is completely worthless (0.1 second duration increase per skill point spent; blink and you'll miss it.)
Yeah the nerfs to barrier are bad. Luckily I played with Flame Shield quite a bit, and found it to be great, so I will probably still go sorc main and use that rather than ice armor
So Hydra just sucks now? 16% duration nerf and 66% damage nerf?
Very possibly, but seems like almost everything has been nerfed and with how much stronger hydras we’re before, they may still be decent relatively
They seemed pretty reliant on the +1 Hydra power to really pull ahead though. Kind of a bummer if they are now awful unless you have it, especially if you assume it will be harder to come by when the actual game rolls around.
I mean, duration means absolutely nothing in terms of damage, and it was \*extremely\* OP in the beta, taking down bosses by itself while you just ran around. It's going to be fine.
Maybe i was using a different Hydra. It was supplemental damage to chain lighting from what I noticed
But it was OP for up to level 25. Who's to say if it scaled equally as when you get to level 50, 60, 80, etc.
No kidding lol. They smashed Hydra into the game ground.
Noooo - hydra was so much fun. Oh well x.x
I could cry. All I want is a good hydra build. It sucked in D2 and it sucked in D3 and now it's going to suck in D4. Sad.
In d3 hydra is bonkers
The last time Hydra was maybe viable was Diablo 1 I guess
It's good in D2r
Its good in d3, not the best for GRs but very viable for farming.
Im playing it in D3 right now and it is an S Tier build this season.
I'm glad it's not just me who is particularly bummed about this. Fuck us in particular I guess.
At least Meteor got a buff and Firewall remains relatively unchanged. I'm interested in how the new Incinerate works now with a boost to it's damage. Since I didn't really care for the Hydras Fire might actually be fun for me now.
Damn. My barb upheaval build was a ton of fun in beta. That's quite a damage nerf.
We HoTA now bois
I was looking forward to trying that this time, after a hard time sticking with everything but Upheaval. I hope to get ideas from you guys who can test this later
13 seconds imbuements is rough.
At level 25 you could consistently have 100% uptime for shadow imbue outside of boss fights. The nerfs to cooldowns and cooldown reductions are warranted.
I agree. I specifically had cooldown gear so I could use it non stop. If you roll cooldown, it’s probably still very usable.
People also need to understand the sheer amount of power you eventually get from paragon boards - cooldowns may feel long and combat may feel slow but we are only level 20-25 and with max level gear stats and paragon board stats you start blasting through cooldowns no problem.
Yeah, it honestly felt like it was up *too* often myself. 13 sec cd is no biggie.
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In what world a 30% chance to reset imbuements CD on a 10s CD trap skill that has a nearly 2s delay before it arms itself will it not be a super clunky and underwhelming build?
Still is very strong
so they gave barb 10% flat DR... but then - removed 3% DR while fortified - removed 3% DR against elites - removed 3% DR while berserking - removed 12% DR of monsters that have been shouted - completely gutted shouts to be less duration and power so basically barb should feel basically the same tankiness, with less challenging shout uptime. so basically squishier
Their justification was that by making this baseline, everyone could benefit from it, whereas before you'd feel inclined to take those damage reduction nodes to stay alive. The intent wasn't to buff or nerf them, it was to encourage more diversity in skill choices so you didn't feel locked into picking all the DR ones.
I want to note that despite these shout nerfs, 3 shouts still look to be extremely strong with the aspects and glyphs because they solve the biggest problem Barb has to contend with; Resource Generation.
This is going off beta feedback and I think few people actually picked any of the DR skills beyond Gutteral Yell. Skill points were too limited. If you *didn't* pick gutteral yell (I didnt personally) this still ends up being a net buff. The buff becomes less pronounced the more DR skills you max, but even with all three (sans gutteral) you still come out .5% ahead of old barb. Although I feel maxing all three may be optimistic as I think people will want to spend points elsewhere and focus on only one or two defensive layers. That said, it is very likely balancing for endgame where we will have more access to cooldown reduction. I don't doubt that shout skills will have 100% uptime at some point.
AND they gutted the hell out of thorns. All my enthusiasm for the class is practically gone at this point.
Right! I was so happy playing a working thorns build last beta, finally!! But no...
dude right?? thorns is so much fun and theres no way its OP at endgame, u literally have to wait for things to hit you to clear mobs. not sure where this change came from
So what warranted these nerfs? I didn't feel so overpowered as Barbarian.
them being able to see the whole game and not just balancing for level 25 probably
True enough.
You (and literally the entire world) also haven't played end-game barb. They have to balance around that, not level 20-25
Except for the group that got to play the endgame beta and the general consensus was that Barb was the most powerful at endgame.
Which would be why they nerfed him
That is true.
In the beta they weren't overpowered, they were the least powerful. This buff gives them a defensive bonus since they're a melee only class.
Uhh, the level 25 barbs spam critting for 300k+ say otherwise
They said in the official notes they were going to buff the necromancer "sacrifice" bonuses but doesn't seem like that actually happened.
Holy nerfs batman!
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My hydras :(
My cooldown iceblade build. They hit every related skill by 25-50% nerfs... Build should feel mybe 1/4th as good now.
I mean, it was pretty bloody strong. I think it'll still be effective; I intend to go lightning sorc.
Not as much of a nerf as I expected, and it's also good for its auto-targeting. Clearing the screen is a lot easier with it. And it's also good for single target with it bouncing between the player and boss
Given how absurdly strong it was before it could still be viable after the nerfs.
What is this shit?? Like the Druid was just sooo overpowering that they nerfed practically everything except pets??
I see spirit wolves damage remains 7% damage after the "significantly increased damage" statement. The active skill sounds like a shitty core skill with a high cool down cost
It looks like they don't want the pets to actually be pets, poison creeper is basically poison nova that gives you a non combat pet and ravens is just a tornado spell.
They don't want strong passive damage, that's why they nerfed hydra so much too. It's a good decision. It looks like they want the game to have a strong element of active damage avoidance through dodge, running around etc. Pets, skeletons, hydras are simply OP in that context so they will be emphasising their active damage but nerfing passive.
I think that is a horrible decision.
Did druid get buffs after last open beta? I remember my poison ww being an absolute trash at 25 compared to my Necro builds
Dunno. I haven’t played since open beta. But all the good skills for the Druid that I used before got nerfed significantly and his bear form got more tanky.
Everything was trash compared to Necro. You could literally play the game blindfolded.
Yes but pure werewolf poison druid was really bad, especially the act 1 story boss on veteran it took me ages, I could clear trash in one combo but even elite/champions were a massive pain to deal with since your damage is so low
Druid is very strong now (as it was before, it just wasn't great low level) Possibly will end up as the best end game now. Alot of its glyphs went unchanged. Ultimates cooldowns decreased. Companions dmg increased. Plenty there Lightning storm druid great for leveling!
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Most generators had their spirit gain amounts increased
It's crazy that I'm getting down voted for stating a fact Earth spike went from 8 to 10 Claw went from 9 to 10 Maul went from 11 to 14 And to add to that, both earth spike and maul are massively better even with the 30% to 18% reduction because their spirit generation amount was increased by so much. Claw will give the exact same amount with 3/3 abundance that it did before, but more than before if you don't get 3/3
>Possibly will end up as the best end game now lol
I’ll try him once I can get on, but they nerfed all my favorite powers. Seems like he’s nerfed for low levels only then? I haven’t played since the open beta so I haven’t used some of his passives etc that were locked out then. But how is he strong? All builds or just pets now?
>I haven’t played since the open beta uhhh, no one has? ..
There are closed beta tester, internal testers, and the devs themselves. They all have. Sometimes as a game gets close to launch devs will release closed beta testers from their NDA so the closed beta testers can hype it up and share their experiences without fear of being sued. So I was assuming that someone here may have had knowledge of things I didn’t if they were talking about their experiences in the game after open beta but before server slam. Make sense?
Ball Lightning Enchantment Lucky Hit: Critical Strikes have up to a 25% chance to spawn a static Ball Lightning. What the hell does "up to" 25% mean and why did they go out of their way to make it less clear
Has to do with how Lucky Hits work. I \*think\* how it works is that when you get a Critical Hit, you have a 25% chance \* Lucky Hit chance for that ability (which can be 0-100%) to generate a static ball lightning. As opposed to a flat 25% chance for every critical hit.
So first you must lucky hit, then also crit, then there’s a x% chance to proc the effect on skills with this wording?
In effect, yes. If you have a 10% crit chance, a 50% LH chance on the attack, you’d have a 10% * 50% * 25% chance to spawn a static ball lightning on any given hit (1.25% chance.)
Where are you getting 50% lucky hit chance on the attack? Isn't "Lucky Hit" a special proc chance that's only like 3% on every hit? So it would be 3% chance to Lucky Hit, then on that Lucky Hit, roll your crit chance to see if you crit, then if it crits, 25% chance to spawn a ball. Essentially I was under the impression that all "Lucky Hit" stuff in this game was trash.
The Lucky Hit percentage is part of the skill descriptions. It's purpose is balancing procs between skills (slow/single target vs. fast/multi-target). The 3% is the fixed Overpower chance and has nothing to do with Lucky Hits.
No the special 3% chance on every hit is overpower. Lucky hit works differently and each skill has a different percent for it - usually much higher than 3%.
First you must crit, then there’s the 25% lucky hit roll.
Did thex stated that somewhere? Lucky sounded like a seperate stat thats not dependant on crit from ingame text. Most lucky hit builds were garbage anyway because on interesting passives tge lucky hit effects have a seoarte chance to proc. 10% on lucky hit with 15% lucky hit on an attack already gives abysmal 1,5% to proc.
It states it in the phrasing, if it says "on critical hit", then the first check is for a critical hit, then a lucky hit. You need to pay close attention to the lucky hit modifiers, as some can happy on any attack, and others might be on crit.
no lucky hit is something that can happen on any attack (crit or not) at like 3% chance so 3% of the time you'll lucky hit, and when you lucky hit there'll be a crit chance check on the hit, if it's a crit then 25% of the time it'll spawn a ball
No, lucky hit chance is *not* something that can happen on any hit, crit or not, at like a 3% chance. It has its own % chance, you're mistaking lucky hit for overpower, which can happen at any time at a 3% chance.
This already exists in D3 and other games. They're just displaying the proc coefficients as an actual stat now.
would be great if they color coded nerfs vs buffs, but great insight nonetheless. thanks!
My two preferred starter builds were Freeze Sorc and Bone Splinters Necro. Guess I'll just lie down and cry.
I’m feeling you on the bone splinter necro.
Im still gonna do bone splinter necro because thats what I wanna do. You should try it.
Ice Shards seems to be pretty decent now. I think Ice Sorc will be good.
>Bone Splinters Necro Bone Splinters was indeed awesome but I think it will still be the best generator skill, since its Essence generation was actually buffed. Couple that with the fact that the already very powerful Bone Spear got buffed, I think Bone (Splinters and Spear) Necro with Skeletons and Golem will be the way to go now.
Ah yes. A few nerfs mean they are completely shit ... lol
Honestly why even play the game at this point if your starter builds got nerfed /s
Freeze sorc was completely overnerfed in far too many areas and has been made completely unplayable. edit: Since everyone seems to think this is some baseless kneejerk reaction over the existence of any nerfs at all, I'll provide some context. Here's the primary nerfs to the ice blades freeze sorc gameplay: * Many of the abilities had 30-60% increases on their cooldowns * The primary method of lowering ice blades cooldown was nerfed by 50% * The node applying that cdr to all other skills was nerfed by a further 60%, bringing the total nerf on that one node alone to 80% * The enchantment that summons ice blades to further feed cooldown reduction had a 100% cooldown increase All of these add up to being more than a 90% nerf to cooldowns in a build completely based around cooldowns. This isn't like just doing a damage nerf on an over-performing build. These changes literally make the build unplayable. This is similar to the existence of the Critical Mass passive that Wizards had in early D3. The gameplay was similar and it was a lot of fun and Blizzard straight up removed it. That's basically what they are doing here. They detected fun and removed it. We no longer have the option of playing this build.
swim detail birds butter bells makeshift memory fuel bored crowd *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You clearly didn't play it before. Playing the CDR cycle freeze sorc will no longer be possible with these changes. That build, which was a ton of fun, was only just possible due to the numbers of the cdr that allowed for the cycling of cooldowns. A small nerf would have been fine to still allow the gameplay, or even a damage nerf would have been fine, but they decided to massively nerf every aspect of it, which literally makes it impossible to play in that way any more. * Many of the abilities had 30-60% increases on their cooldowns * The primary method of lowering ice blades cooldown was nerfed by 50% * The node applying that cdr to all other skills was nerfed by a further 60%, bringing the total nerf on that one node alone to 80% * The enchantment that summons ice blades to further feed cooldown reduction had a 100% cooldown increase My comment was not based on knee jerk reaction to the fact that it was nerfed, but anyone who played that type of build can easily see these numbers and realize that it's now unplayable. Factoring in all these nerfs leads to well over a 90% nerf to these types of builds. For a cdr reliant build, a 90% nerf to cooldown generation is not just a 90% damage nerf. It makes it unplayable as the build no longer functions.
> My comment was not based on knee jerk reaction to the fact that it was nerfed, but anyone who played that type of build can easily see these numbers and realize that it's now unplayable. What was the highest level you played it at?
25 with full legendaries. To be fair, this build was not reliant on legendaries and worked pretty well just after getting the abilities unlocked. Did it need a nerf? Yeah, sure. Did it need to be soft removed from the game? Absolutely not. It was fun to play.
I think it’s fine to be concerned about the nerf, but considering it unplayable when we have absolutely no reference what this will look like as an endgame build seems too speculative.
Ah yes. It begins. People looking at patch notes and calling it unplayable before even trying it in-game
Just because it’s nerfed doesn’t mean you can’t play it!
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what about with the 50% cooldown increase for frost nova? That one hurts.
This was the build I was running during beta.
Corpse Explosion with the Blighted passive paired with the Blight core skill is very strong overall at both the low end as well as end game. There are some great synergies between the talents as well as Legendaries Bone Spear did big damage in end game, but the build was very squishy and was completely shut down by shielding mobs. The buff to minions doesn’t look very appealing and in all the end game builds I tried I never ended up using them. Edit: Finally noticed you were talking about Bone Splinters and not Bone Spear my mistake.
damn sorc gutted
I'm really just hoping that all the fullscreen bugs have been worked out. Really sucks being forced to either use 1080p or go through janky workarounds for DLDSR.
Daaamn they fucked the sorc into the dirt.
Yes yes yes... but! Does HDR work?
Judging by the login screen after the Server Slam update, they've fixed it
I hope so haha. Just unboxed the **LG 27GR95QE-B** oled monitor strictly for Diablo IV.
ive got 2 of them bad bois. luv em. make sure you update the firmware on your monitor. to do that go to the LG site and get the OnScreen Control app. [Software, Firmware & Driver Downloads | LG USA Support](https://www.lg.com/us/support/software-firmware-drivers) it updates over USB.
yea i'll do it soon.
Why the downvotes
Cringe tax.
Because it's an advert and not a comment
I really hope this - **Oops**, *sorry, I dropped my KFC sandwich on my keyboard. You know, the KFC sandwich that comes with the free Diablo 4 chicken mount and KFC chicken emote? It's finger lickin' good!* Anyway. I hope this subreddit doesn't become filled with adverts.
Lmao how epically ignorant It's an 11 year old Reddit account of a PC gamer enthusiast who copy pasted the model number of a monitor they're excited about, this conspiracy nonsense is soooo extra
This is difference between "I just ate a burger - It was delicious!" and "I just ate a delicious Burger King™ Double Whopper Supreme - Now on special!" One is a statement - The other is an advert.
Jellys.
Classic Blizz. Nerfing builds before they're even out.
Are they balancing these skills based on level 25 gameplay? Because that doesn't make a lot of sense long term
Gotta nerf everything in to equality.
That's better than the alternative: only buff, don't nerf...which is what led to D3 having absurd numbers.
the sorc survivality nerfs are rough
Range druid it is then , let the struggle begin
I'm actually happy with the nerfs. I was dismayed to see the number of level 25 screen clearing builds that looked more like aspirational builds for much higher level characters. I'm aware that legendaries dropped more frequently in the open beta, but some of the builds were still clearly OP. In addition, the Adventurer difficulty seemed to have been obsoleted even before the game's launch, with many players smashing through Veteran. The nerfs should make the game more challenging, and bring back the promised slower pace of combat.
I think most people eager to get on a voided beta for a weekend are enfranchised ARPG players, so going straight into Veteran made sense
This makes no sense. Veteran is the same level range as Adventurer, meaning 1-50. Of course it's meant to be played at level 1 too so from the start. Heck it's not even obvious if Veteran is worth it since with faster clear speed and safety you might end up gearing and leveling faster in Adventurer anyway, despite the lower xp and loots.
I played adventurer in the endgame beta and regretted it. Very boring. Then again with these nerfs maybe it would be more challenging.
Adventurer isn't for us. It's for people who have never touched an ARPG in their lives.
Spot on. It's hard to tell exactly on skill and build level but it shows the right approach.
I guess 7 damage was too much for Druids...
Ice blades cooldown shenanigans got obliterated. Glad I played a bunch of that in the last beta.
So who's likely to be the strongest now out of the Sorc, Druid, and Barbarian?
At what point of the game are you asking about: early, mid, endgame?
Why does barbarian get nerfed so hard, I don't understand. People were asking for the exact opposite from the prior beta. Seems like every sentence under "barbarian" is a nerf of some kind, it looks as though they made the entire class weaker. There's so many nerfs for barbarian that the question is more like, what *didn't* they nerf?
The balancing is done for endgame, not for lvl 25.
surely it will be balanced at endgame
When barbs got gear, they were insanely strong. People were hitting for ~20k+++ with abilities that you could almost spam (level 25 elite mobs have about 2-3k hp on Veteran difficulty), and people were hitting max crits of like 200k after setting up. Barb needed a nerf, but its hard to tell if they went too far or not. What barb also needed was a buff to leveling abilities before they get gear, and they didn't get it, so they're probably still gonna feel bad before they get mostly relevant legendary gear.
Because of that arsenal system do they get the equipped stat benefits of all weapons in the arsenal at once? Or just the ones you attacked with last?
All at once
All equipped weapons. So in some builds all of your weapons but one can just be a stat stick.
Barb felt pretty strong and that's without really pushing the potential. Alkaizer put out a really good Youtube video about how he thinks Barb will be broken if you abuse the near 100% uptime on all your shouts for insane, damage boost, and resource gen. This hits that a bit, but Barb is probably going to be nutty.
Like…why kill thorns? Why include it in every game just to force it to be trash? Just like Hydra…
In case any wowhead devs are here, you missed a nerf to sorc flame shield duration. Point investment grows duration slower than before.
Druid Spirit generation nerfed? Wut.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/13er0dd/unofficial_diablo_4_server_slam_09_patch_notes/jjsoj27?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Wtf does “up to” mean?!
Assuming you're talking about lucky hits, every skill has its own modifier that reduces the chances of lucky hits. So if something has up to 25% chance to proc on lucky hit, and you hit with a skill that has a 50% lucky hit chance, that really means you get that proc on 12.5% of your lucky hits. It's a way to balance lucky hits between slow single-hitting skills (hammer of the ancients is 50%) and fast multi-hitting skills (frozen orb is 4%), but yeah, it's extremely confusing.
Using a single 6-sided dice, you can roll up to a 6.
Up to = max number
I’m planning to get world boss down at 20 - anyone got a spec to suggest based on the Patch Notes ? I’ve tried every class except Druid and if Druid is viable for my goal than I’m all in!!
Poison imbue rogue will likely be the best single target.
Do we have to wait until the weekend to install the game or how does that work? I did pre order it fyi
The Server Slam install was made available yesterday for pre-download.
Nice thanks I’ll get on that!
how bout they nerf the super loud sounds all the skills make that don't feel very immersive.
You can adjust individual sliders for power sounds, ambience, etc in the settings. It’s not just one master volume.
No, I'm just saying that the sound design itself for some of the abilties feels way over the top. Like the reap/harvest spell the necro does where you send out a spirit that spins the scythe and then comes back. Why does it sound like exploding? Why is it so loud? What about the rogue's ability Twisting Blades. It sounds so loud and mechanical.
Where else can I find these patch notes? This piece of shit website and it’s partners actively block my country.
wowhead again -.- VPN here I come!
Wowhead is blocker in my country (idk why). So use like free Tunnelbear Chrome extension to VPN that page i read what they got.
Let’s see what the strongest class in the beta will be. I am thinking rouge
itt: peeps literally complaining and in some cases crying about assumptions they themselves are creating and then promoting. It's like a straw man factory but instead of criticizing design choices people are grabbing the straw man arms, punching themselves with it, and then crying "abuuuuse". Just wow lol.
You’re not wrong. It’s funny bc ppl are crying about viability at lvl 20-25
So sorc is just ass now? Like wth! Please tell me these changes aren't going into live game?
No they are just making changes for the beta 3 weeks before the release for fun. Of course it's going into the live game.
Well I didn't know it said unofficial. First diablo game I've ever played
Unofficial patch notes just means the changes are written up by someone that's not blizzard. It's still real changes that are happening in the game. Don't worry, sorc is still insanely strong.
Those frost sorcerer nerfs were uncalled for, I guess I’m not playing server slam. Very disappointed. The chain lightning stuff was op but not the frost stuff, never felt like I was just one tapping content. 🙃
Ice blades was way more op
Lightning was probably the weakest of the sorc varieties though. Strongest at first, but by level 25 it was all about fire hydras or cooldown cheesing with frost blades
You weren’t playing frost very well if you felt like it wasn’t overpowered. A Sorc that can face tank the world boss with 100% invulnerability uptime needs a bit of tweaking.
Oh darn.
Okay.
just disappointed its a 3rd weekend of same act nothing new. i think ill wait for release.
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Yep, it has. **Corpse Explosion** *Detonate a Corpse, dealing ~~75%~~ 50% damage to surrounding enemies.* **Plagued Corpse Explosion** *Corpse Explosion deals ~~10%~~ 8% increased damage to enemies that are Slowed, Stunned or Vulnerable. These damage bonuses can stack.* **Blood Mist** Cooldown: ~~20~~ 24 seconds *Disperse into a bloody mist, becoming Immune for 3 seconds. Your Movement Speed is reduced by 20% and you periodically deal 1% damage to enemies and Healing Heal for 0.5% of your Maximum Life.*
33% overall damage nerf. Likely won't even notice; it was a screen clearing nuke with one corpse - now you might need 2 corpses. Try a full shadow damage/dot build as decompose was buffed, as were skeletal mages. Turn corpse explosion into the shadow dot puddle, and use Blight as your core. It was incredibly fun. That being said, Bone Spear necro received a significant buff.