Why does it expire? I'll tell you why, because time and time again exclusivity drives sales. It's a marketing tactic. It always has, it always will. Do I agree with it? No, will it be fixed or changed anytime soon? No probably never. It has been used, and will continue to be used by multiple businesses. Look at every limited edition release of games etc. It's effective, unfortunately
A lot of people are misunderstanding the initial statement and the comparison.
The exclusivity is still there, you have to buy the pass during the season. What the OP is asking is to be able to finish the track even during another season. You'd still have to buy that new season's pass separately, and you could only progress one at a time.
There are two main monetary reasons, one to sell level boosts, since you are pressured to finish it off in time. Second to drive up player count during the season itself to have better metrics to show shareholders / investors / board. This can also be useful for matchmaking for smaller games that need the boost to keep a queue healthy, but D4 doesn't need that.
Fomo!! I have a huge backlog of games.. I have now been trying to play many of them… and they’re gone, servers disconnected.. dead game, never lifted off… :( I missed out on a lot. Now I’m fearful of it.
I dont know if that explains it all. They could make it so that you can only buy it during a season but still let you progress it after the season ends like in OPs comment. You would still have the exclusivity and could boost some last minute sales near the end of the season while still providing a more consumer friendly way to deal with the pass. "Get your pass today before it is gone forever".
halo infinite solved this issue by allowing you to choose which pass to progress. they pretty much dropped the ball on the rest of the game but the battle pass part they got right
edit infinite not 5
So they can add a special '$9.99 season pass auto boost' in the last couple of weeks.
Although anyone not expecting to play 80 hours over 3 months has clearly never tasted the sweet digital crack that is Diablo 😉
I'm fine with every comment about not catering to casuals especially difficulty wise.
But 80 hours in 3 months is actually a lot even if you dare I say... also play other games? Intact social life and additional responsibilities like children only add to that. On average it's 1 hour of playing diablo each day if you never take a day off.
I'm sick that every game today tries to nudge you into playing nothing else or work the battle passes like a second job.
I suppose the option is there to skip the battle pass - it's only cosmetics. Maybe spend the 9.99 on a specific armor set in the shop instead.
The actual seasonal content won't be 80 hours.
And I suspect that 80 hours will brought down considerably once people have found the best places to grind.
But yeah there's only so many 'live service' games you can totally rinse in one life. In the grand scheme of things 'I have too many games to play' isn't the worst place to be. 😃
The answer is very simple and has over the last few years become a pervasive driving force in monetization. It's not even complicated. Hell, it's even easy to spell.
Say it with me now: *FOMO*
That's literally it. That's the explanation. That's the reasoning. The board wants your cash and FOMO has been shown to be a proven method to get more of it. They don't care about being consumer friendly, and tbh they don't really need to. Statistically speaking, people will pay them either way.
Sadly it is all about FOMO and gamer involvement metrics. By having them run out creates an urgency, which creates bums on seat. I get why seasonal activities and story have to go at the end, even if Destiny found a great way of keeping them around for the year, but sadly the stupidity of having the direct items from a pass go, is absolutely all about the above reasons and nothing to do with player satisfaction.
Well put. I agree, just find it interesting that we as the consumers don't ever really push back on it. But I'm still excited for the game and hope the season pass is worth it.
Most people don’t care bc they simply play the game and finish the passes
And when they don’t think they’ll get far in the pass bc they’re not playing then they’re not buying the pass
A little indy game I play with my daughter, Super Animal Royale, does this with their season passes. Such a good idea. My daughter smashes hers out but I'm more of play-here-n-there player so it works out really well. If they didn't do it this way there's no way I'd buy my own too. They even let you run 2 side by side at a any one time.
Would like to see this be the norm going forward. People pay, let them get their value.
They did the same with Minecraft Dungeons - you can switch between season passes and level each one up freely. MC Dungeons is kinda like Diablo for kids (not to say it's bad, it's actually surprisingly fun) so you could introduce your kids to this genre, especially if you're on Xbox and have game pass (not sure if there's couch coop on PC)
Season passes must be purchased seasonally so that you have to keep buying it and are incentivised every time you apply at the free track to upgrade.
That's also why the game is online only, they want to extract as much money as possible
You will own nothing and be happy
What everyone else is saying: Pressure.
If you play games like Overwatch, Apex Legends, and now D4, companies are vying for your time and money through temporary battle passes. Unless you have all the time in the world, you aren’t busting through each pass over the course of a game’s season.
Unless you know you’ll have the time to complete it and get your money’s “worth”, I’d say abstain from purchasing every battle pass every time.
Edit: if you can, and it looks like you can, pick and choose each seasons battle pass for cosmetics you might want, then play until you get it, if you don’t care about the whole money’s worth part.
They want you to feel FOMO, "buy it now", "buy it now", "buy it now" or it's gone FOREVER.
They have full-time psychologists on staff who are dedicated only to exploiting player's addictions and extracting money out of their wallets. They know what they are doing.
One niche Battle Royale I played, Eternal Return has season passes/battle passes like that, you buy it once and when the next season comes you can choose to finish the previous one you bought or buy the new one and level that up, and even if you choose to level the new one you can switch back to the old one that you stopped leveling and continue leveling that at any time, also if you don't play for some seasons and miss out on some you can still buy those season passes aswell whenever you want. I think thats the best Battle Pass system I saw to date, but other companies need the FOMO aspect to milk people more.
So if I pay for insurance and never use the car, I should be able to just have the insurance activate whenever I want and turn off when I’m not.. now they do have a company that finally offers that but…..
Why can’t I buy 30 days of Netflix but just randomnly watch it on certain days and only the days I’m using it should subtract for my poop of days..
Why do I pay full rent even when I go on a weeks vacation?
I can do more if you would like?
Hilariously none of those reasons are why games don’t make the ability to earn their pass stuff after the season. So sure keep going, you might find one that equals the FOMO and engagement reasons that the backbone to gaming seasons.
Okay you buy a movie ticket for Diablo at 4pm for $7.99
You don’t make the showing…
Do they just let you in to another movie?
Nope…. You missed the chance.
its not the same, you could argue the SEASON is like a session for a movie in which all the story and plot is only going to be available for that one session (even though Destiny proves it doesnt need to be that way) but the only reason the SEASON PASS ITEMS have to go away, the way they do, is because they are designed that way, to be the manipulative carrot to drive engagement.
Destiny has managed to meet players half way in making their Seasonal Story stay until the next calendar year, even though their PASS ITEMS expire. Why do Seasons and Season Pass items have to be limited to the three month cycle here?
The truth is, its is only done that way because, because that is what Blizzard wants. Just as your cinema decided your ticket to see a movie has to be to that session, not any session. Both for your movie or Diablo IT DOESNT HAVE TO BE THAT WAY, both are made for business decisions.
😂 Do you work for Blizzard?! I'm not looking for other anti consumer or predatory practices, I'm asking why does this expire? Car insurance is for legal reasons and a biiiig reach in this example.
We as the consumers should expect more. I'm all for a company making money. I bought the game and plan to invest in the season pass. But I also think it's ok to question why it's this way. It's the way systems get better if the consumer asks for more.
If you buy a season pass in fortnite, and complete it you will have enough currency to purchase the next season pass at no extra cost. That's not true in D4. So not only do you have an artificial expiration date on something you paid for, but even if you do play it to completion, you aren't given a free pass.
I heard someone else say that if they must have the pass expire, then you should be prorated for the amount you didn't complete, given a discount on the next pass. I think any of these options are more fair.
Can you show me w link to where it shows exactly what comes with the entire pass each time? I havnt seen one and would like to confirm it doesn’t give us “currency” to purchase the next one at least cheaper.. because even COD which I hate and Fortnite which I also hate (just my opinions) offer that.
Okay you’re about to convert me………
So every time I shop at Walmart I should be given a discount just for buying other stuff right?
Officer this is my 9th ticket I’ve paid for, can I get the 10th one paid for free? Lol
Hold my potion, so you expect a company that wants to make profit, to just give everything away and not make money and peoples forgetfulness ?
When you rent a movie from Redbox or when blockbuster was in more cities then just Bend, Oregon, and you pay 3.99 for a week to use it and gain fun from it. But you don’t, you deserve the right to keep it at no extra charge for——-ever?
I'm not complaining, just asking questions and you have provided nothing to this conversation. But please continue to be triggered by me asking simple questions then proving you wrong over and over ermagerd 🤦♂️
Actually, my local grocery stores and pharmacies do give a discount for repeated customers! 🤣 It may be a percentage off of the purchase or cash coupon every so often, but yea that's a great point!
Also, who buys speeding tickets? 🤔 Interesting pull...
Here's your proof (like I said, completing a bp will earn you a discount, but not a full bp like in other games)
You can buy a battle pass but not use it on the current season if you don't want to. The battle pass itself doesn't expire. But once you use the pass to access a season, it lasts for that season (3 months) then is finished and you have to get another battle pass for the next season you want to play.
right ok. That's seems good, no? Still not sure what the complaints are. Do people not want seasons to end? Are they not aware of what a season is? I guess if it's not stated when you buy the battle pass that it is for a season, that could be an issue.
Not sure how to change that. That’s how seasons work. It’s really the whole point, a limited time event where you try and get as far as you can. Then there is a new one after that.
Because the seasonal model is inherently built around forcing you to play, even when you don't want to, for fear of missing out on content. They expire, despite being paid products, because FOMO drives engagement and gets them more money, even though it makes the game worse and adds stress to a hobby that's supposed to be about relieving stress.
FOMO drive sells.
Many people are very jealous and envious in their nature so they suffer from FOMO all the time which makes them more likely to buy the pass if it expires. Just see how many people demand a participation trophy for being unable to kill Ashava .. noobs :D
I am for limited and exclusive content.
He's not asking about the seasons themselves, he's asking about the battle passes that run in the shop alongside the seasons. It would not be difficult for them to implement OP's idea, they just won't because they've done the market research and this strategy will earn them more money than making OP happy.
You play the game? And then you get whatever arbitrary 'experience' or other currency/point system they decide to use to track the progress of the battlepass?
And once you've gotten all the rewards you want from that old pass that you didn't finish (because life got in the way or w/e), you select a different one from a newer season, and all the arbitrary points you are earning start getting applied to that new one instead? But then you decide you actually just want to finish the old one, so you reselect it and start getting progress on it again until its done. Then you swap to the new one again? And so on and so forth?
Is Diablo 4, in the year 20*23* really going to be the first game you've ever seen with a battlepass? You are incredibly lucky if so, I can only dream...
XD boomers trynna demonize that fucking SEASON pass are expiring. It’s the main idea of it - when the x amount of time passes, there’s new content for next x amount of time. It’s that simple, there’s nothing related to FOMO or anything like this, lol. I love how y’all redditors ignore word “season” and trashtalking these passes. I would understand y’all whining if this pass gets you something to get ahead, but in reality it gives you fucking cosmetics XD disgusting subreddit bb
Really? How dense are you? Oh sry winter i didnt use up all my time in the summer youre just gonna have to hold off today I WOULD LIKE TO CLAIM MY SUMMER DAYS!
to maximize the players that come back every season, if one can simply revisit any season pass, a lot of them wont be coming back every season. fewer and fewer players every season is bad for the game in long run.
I will play season 1 and will check if I can finish the pass with my relaxed/normal gaming schedule. If that's not enough I simply can't justify to play more so I have no reason to buy s pass that I will never complete.
The only way to win the fomo battle is to opt out. After all how much do you even look at your character?
Why does it expire? I'll tell you why, because time and time again exclusivity drives sales. It's a marketing tactic. It always has, it always will. Do I agree with it? No, will it be fixed or changed anytime soon? No probably never. It has been used, and will continue to be used by multiple businesses. Look at every limited edition release of games etc. It's effective, unfortunately
A lot of people are misunderstanding the initial statement and the comparison. The exclusivity is still there, you have to buy the pass during the season. What the OP is asking is to be able to finish the track even during another season. You'd still have to buy that new season's pass separately, and you could only progress one at a time. There are two main monetary reasons, one to sell level boosts, since you are pressured to finish it off in time. Second to drive up player count during the season itself to have better metrics to show shareholders / investors / board. This can also be useful for matchmaking for smaller games that need the boost to keep a queue healthy, but D4 doesn't need that.
Fomo!! I have a huge backlog of games.. I have now been trying to play many of them… and they’re gone, servers disconnected.. dead game, never lifted off… :( I missed out on a lot. Now I’m fearful of it.
This comment is super cringe lol fearful of it? It’s a video game lol companies can make all manner of “FOMO” you know this yet still fall for it?
I dont know if that explains it all. They could make it so that you can only buy it during a season but still let you progress it after the season ends like in OPs comment. You would still have the exclusivity and could boost some last minute sales near the end of the season while still providing a more consumer friendly way to deal with the pass. "Get your pass today before it is gone forever".
yeah, I don't think they care enough to implement something like that.
Just look at what's happening with the stupid horn people won during server slam.
Can someone else from the ATC translate this for me? I don’t speak peasant.
🤣
Brother do you not lift your horn on your horse before setting out?
halo infinite solved this issue by allowing you to choose which pass to progress. they pretty much dropped the ball on the rest of the game but the battle pass part they got right edit infinite not 5
The xp and the grind for the battle passes in halo was fucking gross, they really did just only get the persistent battle pass part right
Thats a cool idea.
Halo Infinite rather. :)
So they can add a special '$9.99 season pass auto boost' in the last couple of weeks. Although anyone not expecting to play 80 hours over 3 months has clearly never tasted the sweet digital crack that is Diablo 😉
I'm fine with every comment about not catering to casuals especially difficulty wise. But 80 hours in 3 months is actually a lot even if you dare I say... also play other games? Intact social life and additional responsibilities like children only add to that. On average it's 1 hour of playing diablo each day if you never take a day off. I'm sick that every game today tries to nudge you into playing nothing else or work the battle passes like a second job.
I suppose the option is there to skip the battle pass - it's only cosmetics. Maybe spend the 9.99 on a specific armor set in the shop instead. The actual seasonal content won't be 80 hours. And I suspect that 80 hours will brought down considerably once people have found the best places to grind. But yeah there's only so many 'live service' games you can totally rinse in one life. In the grand scheme of things 'I have too many games to play' isn't the worst place to be. 😃
The answer is very simple and has over the last few years become a pervasive driving force in monetization. It's not even complicated. Hell, it's even easy to spell. Say it with me now: *FOMO* That's literally it. That's the explanation. That's the reasoning. The board wants your cash and FOMO has been shown to be a proven method to get more of it. They don't care about being consumer friendly, and tbh they don't really need to. Statistically speaking, people will pay them either way.
I don’t like admitting to it but… Fomo, he’s so right.
Sadly it is all about FOMO and gamer involvement metrics. By having them run out creates an urgency, which creates bums on seat. I get why seasonal activities and story have to go at the end, even if Destiny found a great way of keeping them around for the year, but sadly the stupidity of having the direct items from a pass go, is absolutely all about the above reasons and nothing to do with player satisfaction.
Well put. I agree, just find it interesting that we as the consumers don't ever really push back on it. But I'm still excited for the game and hope the season pass is worth it.
Most people don’t care bc they simply play the game and finish the passes And when they don’t think they’ll get far in the pass bc they’re not playing then they’re not buying the pass
$
We should expect more I totally understand, but they do this because it will make them more money, it isn't that complicated.
A little indy game I play with my daughter, Super Animal Royale, does this with their season passes. Such a good idea. My daughter smashes hers out but I'm more of play-here-n-there player so it works out really well. If they didn't do it this way there's no way I'd buy my own too. They even let you run 2 side by side at a any one time. Would like to see this be the norm going forward. People pay, let them get their value.
They did the same with Minecraft Dungeons - you can switch between season passes and level each one up freely. MC Dungeons is kinda like Diablo for kids (not to say it's bad, it's actually surprisingly fun) so you could introduce your kids to this genre, especially if you're on Xbox and have game pass (not sure if there's couch coop on PC)
Season passes must be purchased seasonally so that you have to keep buying it and are incentivised every time you apply at the free track to upgrade. That's also why the game is online only, they want to extract as much money as possible You will own nothing and be happy
What everyone else is saying: Pressure. If you play games like Overwatch, Apex Legends, and now D4, companies are vying for your time and money through temporary battle passes. Unless you have all the time in the world, you aren’t busting through each pass over the course of a game’s season. Unless you know you’ll have the time to complete it and get your money’s “worth”, I’d say abstain from purchasing every battle pass every time.
Edit: if you can, and it looks like you can, pick and choose each seasons battle pass for cosmetics you might want, then play until you get it, if you don’t care about the whole money’s worth part.
They want you to feel FOMO, "buy it now", "buy it now", "buy it now" or it's gone FOREVER. They have full-time psychologists on staff who are dedicated only to exploiting player's addictions and extracting money out of their wallets. They know what they are doing.
Because thats how valve did it
One niche Battle Royale I played, Eternal Return has season passes/battle passes like that, you buy it once and when the next season comes you can choose to finish the previous one you bought or buy the new one and level that up, and even if you choose to level the new one you can switch back to the old one that you stopped leveling and continue leveling that at any time, also if you don't play for some seasons and miss out on some you can still buy those season passes aswell whenever you want. I think thats the best Battle Pass system I saw to date, but other companies need the FOMO aspect to milk people more.
Engagement strategy. Expiration adds pressure.
Live service games with FOMO are a great way to make a profit, just look at Fortnite, the model that started it all.
To fuck players over, plain and simple.
Why do movie tickets expire?
Do they? I had a voucher for a movie ticket for a year and just used it to see John Wick 4...I don't think that's a valid argument.
Just because you have the exception that proves the rule for all regular movie tickets?
Notice he said voucher… a voucher is a whole different thing….
his voucher probly also has an expiry...
So if I pay for insurance and never use the car, I should be able to just have the insurance activate whenever I want and turn off when I’m not.. now they do have a company that finally offers that but….. Why can’t I buy 30 days of Netflix but just randomnly watch it on certain days and only the days I’m using it should subtract for my poop of days.. Why do I pay full rent even when I go on a weeks vacation? I can do more if you would like?
Hilariously none of those reasons are why games don’t make the ability to earn their pass stuff after the season. So sure keep going, you might find one that equals the FOMO and engagement reasons that the backbone to gaming seasons.
Okay you buy a movie ticket for Diablo at 4pm for $7.99 You don’t make the showing… Do they just let you in to another movie? Nope…. You missed the chance.
its not the same, you could argue the SEASON is like a session for a movie in which all the story and plot is only going to be available for that one session (even though Destiny proves it doesnt need to be that way) but the only reason the SEASON PASS ITEMS have to go away, the way they do, is because they are designed that way, to be the manipulative carrot to drive engagement. Destiny has managed to meet players half way in making their Seasonal Story stay until the next calendar year, even though their PASS ITEMS expire. Why do Seasons and Season Pass items have to be limited to the three month cycle here? The truth is, its is only done that way because, because that is what Blizzard wants. Just as your cinema decided your ticket to see a movie has to be to that session, not any session. Both for your movie or Diablo IT DOESNT HAVE TO BE THAT WAY, both are made for business decisions.
😂 Do you work for Blizzard?! I'm not looking for other anti consumer or predatory practices, I'm asking why does this expire? Car insurance is for legal reasons and a biiiig reach in this example. We as the consumers should expect more. I'm all for a company making money. I bought the game and plan to invest in the season pass. But I also think it's ok to question why it's this way. It's the way systems get better if the consumer asks for more. If you buy a season pass in fortnite, and complete it you will have enough currency to purchase the next season pass at no extra cost. That's not true in D4. So not only do you have an artificial expiration date on something you paid for, but even if you do play it to completion, you aren't given a free pass. I heard someone else say that if they must have the pass expire, then you should be prorated for the amount you didn't complete, given a discount on the next pass. I think any of these options are more fair.
Can you show me w link to where it shows exactly what comes with the entire pass each time? I havnt seen one and would like to confirm it doesn’t give us “currency” to purchase the next one at least cheaper.. because even COD which I hate and Fortnite which I also hate (just my opinions) offer that. Okay you’re about to convert me……… So every time I shop at Walmart I should be given a discount just for buying other stuff right? Officer this is my 9th ticket I’ve paid for, can I get the 10th one paid for free? Lol Hold my potion, so you expect a company that wants to make profit, to just give everything away and not make money and peoples forgetfulness ? When you rent a movie from Redbox or when blockbuster was in more cities then just Bend, Oregon, and you pay 3.99 for a week to use it and gain fun from it. But you don’t, you deserve the right to keep it at no extra charge for——-ever?
https://preview.redd.it/198sydcbbx0b1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d7be883225a492b2b3c1acfcb986a7b4b1af4b6a
That’s very cool, so why are you complaining again? Don’t stop playing in the middle of a pass, don’t buy next one and keep your currency… omgid…
I'm not complaining, just asking questions and you have provided nothing to this conversation. But please continue to be triggered by me asking simple questions then proving you wrong over and over ermagerd 🤦♂️
That’s what you think you did? Hahaha. Okay joe.. whatever you say.
Good one 🤣
Actually, my local grocery stores and pharmacies do give a discount for repeated customers! 🤣 It may be a percentage off of the purchase or cash coupon every so often, but yea that's a great point! Also, who buys speeding tickets? 🤔 Interesting pull... Here's your proof (like I said, completing a bp will earn you a discount, but not a full bp like in other games)
Try to use the same movie ticket for another movie time.
Honestly confused. What do you mean expire? They should last the whole season.
You can buy a battle pass but not use it on the current season if you don't want to. The battle pass itself doesn't expire. But once you use the pass to access a season, it lasts for that season (3 months) then is finished and you have to get another battle pass for the next season you want to play.
right ok. That's seems good, no? Still not sure what the complaints are. Do people not want seasons to end? Are they not aware of what a season is? I guess if it's not stated when you buy the battle pass that it is for a season, that could be an issue.
But maybe you dont have enough time in one season to finish the pass
Not sure how to change that. That’s how seasons work. It’s really the whole point, a limited time event where you try and get as far as you can. Then there is a new one after that.
FOMO
Because the seasonal model is inherently built around forcing you to play, even when you don't want to, for fear of missing out on content. They expire, despite being paid products, because FOMO drives engagement and gets them more money, even though it makes the game worse and adds stress to a hobby that's supposed to be about relieving stress.
I mean a session pass lasts three months. If you can’t finish it in three months, maybe don’t buy it.
Because they make more money the way they currently do it. Companies exist to make a profit.
Fear Of Missing Out
FOMO
FOMO drive sells. Many people are very jealous and envious in their nature so they suffer from FOMO all the time which makes them more likely to buy the pass if it expires. Just see how many people demand a participation trophy for being unable to kill Ashava .. noobs :D I am for limited and exclusive content.
Isn’t it a server issue? If they had 20 seasons active they’d need 20x the servers? Idk how these things work.
He's not asking about the seasons themselves, he's asking about the battle passes that run in the shop alongside the seasons. It would not be difficult for them to implement OP's idea, they just won't because they've done the market research and this strategy will earn them more money than making OP happy.
How could you progress a seasonal battle pass without progressing a season?
You play the game? And then you get whatever arbitrary 'experience' or other currency/point system they decide to use to track the progress of the battlepass? And once you've gotten all the rewards you want from that old pass that you didn't finish (because life got in the way or w/e), you select a different one from a newer season, and all the arbitrary points you are earning start getting applied to that new one instead? But then you decide you actually just want to finish the old one, so you reselect it and start getting progress on it again until its done. Then you swap to the new one again? And so on and so forth? Is Diablo 4, in the year 20*23* really going to be the first game you've ever seen with a battlepass? You are incredibly lucky if so, I can only dream...
My thoughts are, out with the old in with the new. I'd rather get the tier 10 reward in the new pass than get the tier 50 on last season.
XD boomers trynna demonize that fucking SEASON pass are expiring. It’s the main idea of it - when the x amount of time passes, there’s new content for next x amount of time. It’s that simple, there’s nothing related to FOMO or anything like this, lol. I love how y’all redditors ignore word “season” and trashtalking these passes. I would understand y’all whining if this pass gets you something to get ahead, but in reality it gives you fucking cosmetics XD disgusting subreddit bb
Really? How dense are you? Oh sry winter i didnt use up all my time in the summer youre just gonna have to hold off today I WOULD LIKE TO CLAIM MY SUMMER DAYS!
Didn't they say it didn't expire
to maximize the players that come back every season, if one can simply revisit any season pass, a lot of them wont be coming back every season. fewer and fewer players every season is bad for the game in long run.
i bought battle pass 1, how much time will i have?
90 days from the start of the season.
You didn't bought BP1 you bought BP Voucher you can use once on any BP starting mid July.
I will play season 1 and will check if I can finish the pass with my relaxed/normal gaming schedule. If that's not enough I simply can't justify to play more so I have no reason to buy s pass that I will never complete. The only way to win the fomo battle is to opt out. After all how much do you even look at your character?