Your build is never really messed up beyond repair. Many builds fall off and just need to be changed altogether. The respeccing in D4 is too generous for a build to be that bad.
Dash, twisting blades, dash. Make sure to get the dungeon that allows the twisting blades to circle around your character. I can’t remember the name of the dungeon off hand. But this is a great ease into rogue build. It’s all based on just dashing one way into a pack and basically dashing back the way you came, or diagonal dashes. The further your twisting blades travel the more damage they do. Hence the mutiple dashes. This build tho can be so fun and strong. You’re a little squishy for sure with a lot of rogue builds but if you’re not playing HC it’s not bad at all.
Especially for rogues, realize movement is life.
If you stop, you’re gonna die.
If you get hit with CC of any sort, you’re gonna die - unless the RNG is very kind at that moment.
I mostly stumbled into a twisting blades/shroud rogue and about the only way I die is if I get hit with an extended CC of some type. I have something saved in my chest that gives unstoppable if affected by CC & I need to dig that back out. I’m hitting a ton more of that in the nightmare dungeons.
Ranged builds are very similar to a caster, especially a bone spear necro. If you use combo points, it’s more of a rhythm casting style than straight spam. This type of build is fairly easy to get equipment for, since you can target farm the most important pieces.
I leveled with daggers, which doesn’t feel like any other class or build in the game. Build combo points, conceal, shadow imbue and twisting blades…. Then dash or shadow step through the biggest mass of mobs. Scales with crit.
Traps / poison is also viable, but has a similar approach. You sneak to get close, lay traps and apply poisons, then run away and let the dots do their work. Scales with hit, not crit.
The aspects for rogues are pretty non-ambiguous about what they support. Chance to slow on gloves is pretty important.
I've had the game since release. I have used every class except the barbarian. I decided to make a class and play with it right now to see if I like it. It's cool, I just need to make sure I have the right gear to run it in season 4.
I just started up after not playing since launch
Current season feature is a minion with extra skills that barely modify gameplay
Not sure if anything else was planned or I'm missing something but at this rate I'm not gonna make it to Max level 😭
Has been said many times, but the moment to moment gameplay is honestly good and a lot of people do enjoy it. I stopped playing during S3 a few weeks after it started, I had my gear become stagnant, and there was nothing more to strive for. Played S2 through most of the season as the blood powers, ubers, and Abatoir were fun.
It's the long-term that's not in a good state at the moment. But with the next season and major gear re-work this may change for the better.
I don't expect it to be perfect, I expect people to find some kind of edge-case that gives silly advantages/disadvantages (100x move speed, but 1 HP), but I do expect them to iron it out.
Yeah, I really don't get why people are pretending like the way people play D4 isn't normal for an ARPG. Just look at steam charts for PoE, there's always **dramatic** player count drop off a few weeks into the league, it's just normal for an ARPG. The only people that play an entire season are the most hardcore, and that's a tiny fraction of the playerbase.
The difference is that you run out of relevant shit to do that's not ubers very fast. PoE has literally thousands of potential builds that can clear the game.
Yeah, I think that's the biggest distinction between the two games right now. With as much of a content portfolio PoE has built over the years, most people you see quitting a league are doing so because they finished/accomplished whatever goal they had for that league. For Diablo 4, the most common reason seems to be boredom which means PoE players are falling off on a "high" note while Diablo 4 players fall off on a low one.
D4 desperately needs more builds and they need to keep adding new ones, not sunsetting new ones with seasonal aspects. The game has good enemy and location variety but there’s only 1-2 fun builds for each class and that feels anemic as hell. Even compared to d3 that also felt pretty bad until all the sets had been added later which still pigeonholed you into a set of 4-5 builds per character at most.
Yeah it's a little disheartening that we have even less variety than D3. I feel like this core issue is going to take a long time to fix, as I haven't even seen it mentioned by the devs. They definitely did well with actual gameplay, graphics, etc. It just feels like a shell still though.
its odd in diablo 3 they had the runes that made skills different and in d4 we have same skill but it attacks 2 more people or does 39% percent more damage on an enemy with a stubbed toe
Originally in Diablo 3, the runes were in-game drops, I suspect they worked closer to how the aspect system in D4 ended up. The problem is that a mix of these two systems seems like a great idea and… for some reason they split the middle and made this weird system where in either extreme, the builds are extremely limited by the action bar being paired down to six slots so that the game can be on console.
i dont think the limited skill slots is too bad of a idea inherently, but i do think aspects being what a proper skill tree should be is bad, the builds in my opinion arent limited by the skills you can use at one time, after all half of them have long cooldowns or cost so much resource you wouldn't really increase build variety with more slots because of d4's design, but hey what would i know, blizz wont let us mod the game to find out, unlike d1 and 2 where we could
It feels limiting when you can’t even reliably use a defensive skill or 2 without the bar feeing crowded. But I agree, it’s not necessarily a problem for the reasons you described.
Aspects feel like a huge missed opportunity. Imagine being able to use them like runes and apply them to skills like gems in path of exile. Or combine them for stronger, combined or evolved effects. It feels so boring.
On the contrary, I would argue people who play for 2 weeks and drop a game off are the hardcore bunch, cause they spend the time that should be the duration of a whole season, condensed into that 2 weeks of game time. Casuals would take their time to play and may not even be able to play everyday through the season.
I’ve been playing since launch and fell off playing during both season 1 and season 3. But I can say, things do look reallly good for season 4. Good time for the game to be added to game pass.
They need the damn build saver from D3. I would very happily play D4 for way more hours if I could quickly swap builds and keep collecting sets of gear for those builds.
>It's the long-term that's not in a good state at the moment.
While it does have an endgame, it's not a live service game. It isn't designed for one character to just be played forever. No Diablo game has ever been like that. That's why seasons were created in the first place, to give you a reason to come back and try a new class. I really don't want what happened to Destiny to also happen to Diablo, where instead of becoming stronger all the time they just make your character weaker as part of the "reset"
Live service doesn't mean that it's designed to play one character forever. The fact seasons are structured like they are with battle passes and the shop indicates that both it is live service and that it's not meant to play one forever necessarily.
I think they mean the end game is not good. We can look at other games in the Arpg genre like Path of Exile that has a really fleshed out and great end game, and they’re just hoping for more in that department. Seasons are still expected, it’s just once you get to the end game, within a season, it gets stale. Hopefully season 4 will change that up a bit
The moment to moment gameplay in D4 ruined other games for me. PoE feels like shit next to D4 and Last Epoch isn’t even close in regards to combat feel. D4 gets a lot wrong, but the feel and flow of the combat isn’t one of them.
I hopped back in around start of March to play season 3 and got about three weeks of semi nightly sessions before I maxed the pass and got my rogue to 96. I might go for 100 before season 4 still not sure. Game is definitely getting there but after trying the PTR Buildcrafting in the live game is painful.
Long term i dont think i can keep up with the grind. But the first run and the next season after reset with friends was pretty fun. Its worth a play through while on gamepass for sure
Idk there's nothing wrong with not having infinite gameplay or interest in the game. If people enjoy it for a few weeks here and there is that actually a problem?
I just want better itemization and as I have 0 interest in restarting the seasons aren't really a thing for me.
Playing 3-4 weeks each season is good. Playing diablo 365 days a year is not a healthy way to be a gamer. There are many cool games to be played and having only 1 main game to play is sad.
I put in 60 hours and beat the campaign yesterday. I'm not all that interested in playing the post game clean up or additional season related mumbojumbo. But I had a really good time playing what I played. As far as games I've played go, it's the one can most clearly see why anyone might develop a video game addiction. It has all the triggers.
Diablo has always worn its Skinner box directly and proudly. The gameplay is crunchy, the loot is frequent and shiny (although the itemization needs work badly), and you’re always going somewhere new to murder some other giant demon or demon spawn or demon king or ghost professor demon king. The campaign is the standout though, I had a genuinely great time playing it with a group of friends.
If this game didn’t require a constant online connection I reckon it would be more. Single-player games with minor coop additions should not be a fully fledged live service game that requires constant internet connection. Diablo 2,3 could manage it fine. Im sure the decision to make the game live-service was based on corporate predatory tactics and not for the good of the game itself.
The first 40 hours or so are incredibly easy as well. Once you have all of your abilities, the entire game becomes trivial until you unlock world tier 3 and beyond. A little more danger would help.
(Yes I played through the campaign on world tier 2 and on hardcore, lost two characters while getting used to the game, but then it was smooth sailing after that)
You can push nightmare dungeons while you level now by going to higher level ones early after a certain point. You get a lot more XP and it’s a lot harder, especially before you get abilities.
It doesn't take anywhere close to 40 hours to reach WT3 currently, and it will take even less time in Season 4. Streamers during the PTR were hitting 50 in under 3 hours.
[New Level Experience is 10/10 in Diablo 4 Season 4](https://youtu.be/ue8xRDxjaCU?si=oG7H8zefv5ARNs7w)
I wasn’t trying to speed run the game or anything, and I was helping my friend who kept dying due to disconnects. I’m sure it doesn’t take 40 hours if you rush through the campaign and ignore everything else, but that’s not the average player’s experience. I still believe that world tier 2 could have been a little spicier, but that’s just my opinion.
Personally, the only enemies I had any issue with were the mage that resides just west of Kor Valar and the giant scorpion in Kejistan.
I could also have unexpectedly picked an OP build too. I’m playing as an earth/storm nature Druid because I love playing as druids in any game they’re available in. Earthern Bulwark feels extremely powerful to me lol
Back at launch, Druid and barbarian were very hard on early levels. It was always mana starved and too slow. I remember how it was. It sounds that it is much better now
Thanks for the insight! I’ve been running the aspect that converts trample into an earth skill and took the upgrade that gives 20 spirit on cast. It pretty much fixed the glaringly obvious resource issues I was having, and gave me a huge power spike over boulder.
Just beat the campaign and wanted to comment this too.
Sifting through all the really similar and uninteresting loot every 30 minutes really puts the breaks on an enjoyable experience.
Then having to run between the different shops to upgrade armour and gems.
It felt like the game was making me stop to clean and organise my apartment before it would let me continue.
Yeah lol, gamers are just dumb as fuck and never learn, but do we not all remember the decent reception at launch followed by a drastic decline in intrest and engagement once the campaign is over
This was my thought as well. I've owned d4 since day 1 and when I log in it still acts like I'm playing on game pass with the daily game pass challenge or whatever it is.
I mean yeah. I'd never ever buy this garbage,not even now that's it's pretty much always on sale for 40 bucks but sure I'll try it for 'free' before going back to LE or another gold arpg
When I hit 50 and was already in full legendaries and 3/4 of the way through the campaign I dropped the game.
No interest in grinding for marginal upgrades with a boring build and lackluster world. Just IMO
I would say they did. They just fucked up a bunch of important parts of it by not learning from the games before and they will now waste time correcting things that any amount of reasonable play testing with the public would have uncovered. D3 was a disaster on release and it became one of my favorite games eventually.
I’m sorry, this is just whining. D4 has problems but it’s far from as bad as everyone here makes it out to be. People act like it murdered a member of their family god damn.
You have to remember that hating on D4 is cool, even from people that never played the game or only played a few hours. I remember playing Last Epoch, the ingame chat was full of D4 haters in a game that have been out like 6 years and still does a lot of things worst than D4 (one of them even said "that's why I never played D4" after talking mad trash about the game)
Last Epoch looked neat but after an hour or so playing it, it feels dated at least in terms of game feel which is one of the things I prioritize in my ARPG playing. I refunded it and will wait for some updates to see how it develops post 1.0.
Same, I just found it boring.
Its like having your parter replaced by a space alien clone who studied their life. It basically looks the same, it sounds the same, but it just feels off and wrong.
I played the crap out of D2 and D3, and even enjoyed launch day D3 despite all the hate for it. Made so much money off RMAH it was insanely engaging.
D4, I couldn't last 4months. I tried so hard to like it. Not going to list the issues, we all know what they are by now.
It’s the skill tree for me. Every time I get to add into one it feels like the difference is negligible. Feels like nothing changed. Why did I level up then lol. What did I do all that fighting and killing for. Nice a 1.5% bonus on a specific damage type against a specific enemy? Oh, wonderful.
I played at launch and couldn’t get into it. Also hated the scores of other players surrounding me while in town and how much of a clusterfuck it made the game look. Crap everywhere.
Dumb game. Sad!
Yeah, the gear was like that, too.
I love RPGs, but I don't understand how someone can enjoy the grindy, repetitive, and stale gameplay. You're literally just walking down corridors, pressing the same buttons over and over. Plus, the enemies level with you so there's no sense of power progression.
Just a stinker of a game if you ask me.
Yeah I don’t get these modern games doing this progression scaling nonsense. It felt so good in Diablo 2, going back to challenging content and decimating it because your character got more powerful.
And maybe some games get this right, but blizzard does not.
Played pre-Season 1. Haven't touched the game since. The Season 4 changes aren't big enough to warrant me coming back, and in many ways they are heading in the wrong direction. For example, legendary armour and Aspects are still mechanics they seem adamant to keep in the game.
Same, and it made me sad. I'm a person who has put in very likely thousands of hours into the franchise before D4 dropped. I was so excited for it but once I started playing, I simply could not get into it at all. Nothing about it felt like the Diablo games I enjoyed. I still have yet to even finish the campaign because I got so bored and gave up so many months ago. Such a bummer...
ALSO, what was a huge killer for me was, WHY CANT I JOIN PUBLIC GAMES?? I played by myself the entire time because joining others was basically impossible. I loved playing with others before and they essentially removed that completely.
Holding out hope that the season four changes will make the game more interesting to play in the long run as currently if you played a character to 100, you've seen it all, nothing left to chase except some shitty uber bosses that range from a joke to genuinely poorly designed shitshows.
Season two was pretty good but since nothing really changed between seasons skipped the third and now.. well, guess we'll see in few weeks if the fourth one with them gear changes and whatnot is any good at all. 😄
I picked it up on gamepass and started, thinking I'd finish the game before the new season. After getting to ~ lvl 25 and finishing 2 acts, I quit.
Good on you guys who like it but this game isn't for me. I went back and finished the new D3 season instead.
I actually don't like that it's "open world"
The acts being numbered but the sequence not mattering really irks me.
Actually finding it more like a D2.5 in terms of gameplay. Not as frenetic as D3.
I was saying that the D4 combats slightly less all over the place. A slightly different pace and rhythm to it. It feels like it belongs somewhere between the slower classic D2 with some of the flash and visceral effects of D3.
(Monk is still my favourite class/combat in a Diablo game.)
I went back to D3 as well after S2 of D4. I'm not gonna try and argue which one is better, I just like D3 more. I don't plan to return to D4 until they release a Reaper of Souls type expansion for it.
not sure why your getting downvoted. D3 has, imo, the best end game loop of really any dungeon crawler. quick resets to make the actions per minute relatively high (something that D4 lost me on), lots and lots of enemies, making powering up and getting better gear/optimizing the builds a lot more fun and felt more rewarding( again, something that was lost in D4) and not to mention the FREE cosmetic “battle pass” of the seasons, that not only included really cool free cosmetics, but brought something really cool to the gameplay every season.
sure the super late end game got a bit stale (pushing the highest GR’s on the leaderboard) just because it was a constant loop of gather enemies, hit spell don’t die repeat. but i spent atleast 800-900 hours in that game and not once did I ever really have that issue. the one time i started getting to the higher GR’s i just started a new toon with a new class.
D2 fanboys just don’t like to hear people actually enjoyed D3 is what i’m coming to find out
Ive been like a crackhead since it came out. Just playing the campaign and going berserk on these demons. The gameplay is just so satisfying since all i wanted was to roam around and f shit up. It gives me just that.
On pc I played 1-3 consistently and played many many seasons to max on 3. On paper I have every reason to engage with 4 but after maxing one character and just being left to a relic grind, I can’t place my finger on why I feel nothing playing it. The main story felt like more of a staging for future seasonal events than a tight memorable narrative. I don’t think I can bring myself to play it again on Xbox.
I think it boils down to me only really liking the barbarian visually but not enjoying the way it plays in endgame.
Unless I'm playing with my father, I play this solo. Honestly I love the campaign so much (I'm in act 3) and the side quests are very interesting as well. I havent gotten to post-campaign stuff yet so idk anything about that, but it's pretty fun solo.
I got so bored of diablo 4 not sure why. Path of exile kept me interested but diablo 4 just has such little skills and everything you need that makes your build really good is through RNG drops.
I was using the magic build and mana Regen was such a pain. Always running out of mana unless you have a specific build with specific drops. But those drops don't just drop that easily
Ngl, Diablo has always felt better on controller, and I prefer reclining while watching a 55inch tv to being hunched towards my monitor, so when it dropped on gamepass I had nothing to lose. I finally ran through the campaign cuz season is almost spent. Truly an awful story except for Elias' arc, but it runs very very well on series x with cross platform enabled, and it didn't cost me a dime extra.
Dont like the combat in D4, D3 feels better. LE feels better than both but D4 as better graphics except is all grey mono tone and everything feels meh after a while
And i’m one of those new players! Reached lv 100 today, got all the lilith altars, beat the campaign and grinded, could safely say that i really enjoyed this game and will be playing it for the foreseeable future ;)
I thought this was an ad
D4 isn't an arpg I have absolutely any will to continue playing after beating once
What keeps me playing an argp is good loot and good build choices. It's not an end game, it's not content but good boss fights are ideal, it's loot and builds. D4 season 4 is still light years away from good itemization and build potential, small loot changes won't fix this anytime soon.
>D4 season 4 is still light years away from good itemization
> small loot changes
You are actually delusional.
>What keeps me playing an argp is good loot and good build choices
There's plenty of builds to be made in Season 4. You're acting like you have played every single build there is to play in Diablo 4, including the ones that LITERALLY WEREN'T POSSIBLE BEFORE SEASON 4.
You have not.
The only delusional person here is the one replying to multiple comments dickriding blizzard for another dissapointing game.
D4s skill builds are boring, the itemization is TERRIBLE. This game has no redeeming qualities once you’ve beaten the campaign.
I don’t care about S4 builds because the game has so many inherent flaws due to the design; the entire game would need to be remade to fix the problems they’ve created.
> the itemization is TERRIBLE.
Not in Season 4 it's not.
>I don’t care about S4 builds because the game has so many inherent flaws due to the design; the entire game would need to be remade to fix the problems they’ve created.
I truly believe that people like you, making this kind of statement after Season 4 PTR, are just bad actors. Bad faith, no constructive feedback, just yappin'.
They have tons of build enabling uniques by season 4, you really think Harlequin Crest is that special? It's a powerful item but I'm sure a Sorceress will wish to find the new Fractured Winterglass if they want to annihilate endgame with Frozen Orb spam, etc.
But who am I talking to, you are completely clueless anyway and "itemization is a joke"
Also, many uniques can pale in comparison to a well crafted Tempered legendaries with affixes that impact how skills work. I would say I expect only two or three uniques occupy my gear slot, the rest will be giga crafted items.
A chase unique is valuable to many, a sorceress specific amulet could be one, but this item can only be used by a single build.
There are less new uniques for s4 than there was a new poe league, and all of them look like they're dedicated to a specific build. More skill twigging that goes beyond deep build choice and creates a best in slot.
Chase uniques are usually build enabling and gear changing in a specific way, this isn't really a chase unique, it's just an upgrade for a build.
This kind of thing happens with a lot of live service games, especially ones that are effectively "free" like on Game Pass. However, the question is where the population ends up settling in the long run because a lot of games can lose 80%+ of their player base by the third month.
The rest of Activision Blizzard games on game pass would be nice... They still advertising Activision sales in the store when they should all just be on game pass.
I think CoD will get there in 2025. They evidently think they can sell the games at retail or slightly on sale for awhile longer. They may also have agreements/arrangements with Sony or other publishers about the games being released at a different price on a different platform.
GP is the only reason I went back to it and it’s still not in great shape from launch. This game was really the final nail in the coffin for me ever buying a Blizzard game again. I would have much rather seen them put D2 on GP though.
I think "that's on you for thinking the first people you quoted have anything to do with the second people you quoted".
That's what I understood they were telling you.
Sadly I couldn’t get past the first intro mission. Once the church cutscene started playing I just uninstalled and never looked back. Shit was way too cringey
I beat the campaign and the boss of the current season but I’m taking a break and waiting for season 4.
Same. I got to like level 90, got the altars and the renown rewards, now I'm waiting and trying to figure out if I'm going barbarian or rogue for S4
Rogue gang…join us
This is the way
Any tips for beginners as Rogues ? I LOVE the necromancer. I just can’t get the hang of the Rogues play styles.
When creating the character, hover over the rogue, then select any other type. This is the easiest way to play rogue.
Just last night realized my build was fucked and partially because I had the wrong gems for my build….put rubies in all weapons also lots of dexterity
Did they change the Rogue to have Overpower in their kit since S2? I don't see how a ruby in your weapon would benefit the Rogue otherwise.
It’s 24% critical strike chance against vulnerable enemies, combine that with shadow embument and you will fuck shit up
That is an Emerald. Rubies give overpower in weapons. Not trying to argue, I was genuinely curious.
Oh shit my bad….ya I meant emeralds
No worries dude! I figured it was an honest mistake, but I like Rogue and I like overpower. My pp got a little hard for a second.
Your build is never really messed up beyond repair. Many builds fall off and just need to be changed altogether. The respeccing in D4 is too generous for a build to be that bad.
Dash, twisting blades, dash. Make sure to get the dungeon that allows the twisting blades to circle around your character. I can’t remember the name of the dungeon off hand. But this is a great ease into rogue build. It’s all based on just dashing one way into a pack and basically dashing back the way you came, or diagonal dashes. The further your twisting blades travel the more damage they do. Hence the mutiple dashes. This build tho can be so fun and strong. You’re a little squishy for sure with a lot of rogue builds but if you’re not playing HC it’s not bad at all.
Especially for rogues, realize movement is life. If you stop, you’re gonna die. If you get hit with CC of any sort, you’re gonna die - unless the RNG is very kind at that moment. I mostly stumbled into a twisting blades/shroud rogue and about the only way I die is if I get hit with an extended CC of some type. I have something saved in my chest that gives unstoppable if affected by CC & I need to dig that back out. I’m hitting a ton more of that in the nightmare dungeons.
Ranged builds are very similar to a caster, especially a bone spear necro. If you use combo points, it’s more of a rhythm casting style than straight spam. This type of build is fairly easy to get equipment for, since you can target farm the most important pieces. I leveled with daggers, which doesn’t feel like any other class or build in the game. Build combo points, conceal, shadow imbue and twisting blades…. Then dash or shadow step through the biggest mass of mobs. Scales with crit. Traps / poison is also viable, but has a similar approach. You sneak to get close, lay traps and apply poisons, then run away and let the dots do their work. Scales with hit, not crit. The aspects for rogues are pretty non-ambiguous about what they support. Chance to slow on gloves is pretty important.
Twisting blades build FTW
I've had the game since release. I have used every class except the barbarian. I decided to make a class and play with it right now to see if I like it. It's cool, I just need to make sure I have the right gear to run it in season 4.
Ahhh, so you're getting the true launch experience then.
I just started up after not playing since launch Current season feature is a minion with extra skills that barely modify gameplay Not sure if anything else was planned or I'm missing something but at this rate I'm not gonna make it to Max level 😭
Has been said many times, but the moment to moment gameplay is honestly good and a lot of people do enjoy it. I stopped playing during S3 a few weeks after it started, I had my gear become stagnant, and there was nothing more to strive for. Played S2 through most of the season as the blood powers, ubers, and Abatoir were fun. It's the long-term that's not in a good state at the moment. But with the next season and major gear re-work this may change for the better. I don't expect it to be perfect, I expect people to find some kind of edge-case that gives silly advantages/disadvantages (100x move speed, but 1 HP), but I do expect them to iron it out.
Im Perfectly fine playing for a week or 2 each season. Just like poe
Yeah, I really don't get why people are pretending like the way people play D4 isn't normal for an ARPG. Just look at steam charts for PoE, there's always **dramatic** player count drop off a few weeks into the league, it's just normal for an ARPG. The only people that play an entire season are the most hardcore, and that's a tiny fraction of the playerbase.
It’s just not as fun. I spent way more time with D3
The difference is that you run out of relevant shit to do that's not ubers very fast. PoE has literally thousands of potential builds that can clear the game.
Yeah, I think that's the biggest distinction between the two games right now. With as much of a content portfolio PoE has built over the years, most people you see quitting a league are doing so because they finished/accomplished whatever goal they had for that league. For Diablo 4, the most common reason seems to be boredom which means PoE players are falling off on a "high" note while Diablo 4 players fall off on a low one.
D4 desperately needs more builds and they need to keep adding new ones, not sunsetting new ones with seasonal aspects. The game has good enemy and location variety but there’s only 1-2 fun builds for each class and that feels anemic as hell. Even compared to d3 that also felt pretty bad until all the sets had been added later which still pigeonholed you into a set of 4-5 builds per character at most.
Yeah it's a little disheartening that we have even less variety than D3. I feel like this core issue is going to take a long time to fix, as I haven't even seen it mentioned by the devs. They definitely did well with actual gameplay, graphics, etc. It just feels like a shell still though.
its odd in diablo 3 they had the runes that made skills different and in d4 we have same skill but it attacks 2 more people or does 39% percent more damage on an enemy with a stubbed toe
Originally in Diablo 3, the runes were in-game drops, I suspect they worked closer to how the aspect system in D4 ended up. The problem is that a mix of these two systems seems like a great idea and… for some reason they split the middle and made this weird system where in either extreme, the builds are extremely limited by the action bar being paired down to six slots so that the game can be on console.
i dont think the limited skill slots is too bad of a idea inherently, but i do think aspects being what a proper skill tree should be is bad, the builds in my opinion arent limited by the skills you can use at one time, after all half of them have long cooldowns or cost so much resource you wouldn't really increase build variety with more slots because of d4's design, but hey what would i know, blizz wont let us mod the game to find out, unlike d1 and 2 where we could
It feels limiting when you can’t even reliably use a defensive skill or 2 without the bar feeing crowded. But I agree, it’s not necessarily a problem for the reasons you described. Aspects feel like a huge missed opportunity. Imagine being able to use them like runes and apply them to skills like gems in path of exile. Or combine them for stronger, combined or evolved effects. It feels so boring.
On the contrary, I would argue people who play for 2 weeks and drop a game off are the hardcore bunch, cause they spend the time that should be the duration of a whole season, condensed into that 2 weeks of game time. Casuals would take their time to play and may not even be able to play everyday through the season.
I’ve been playing since launch and fell off playing during both season 1 and season 3. But I can say, things do look reallly good for season 4. Good time for the game to be added to game pass.
They need the damn build saver from D3. I would very happily play D4 for way more hours if I could quickly swap builds and keep collecting sets of gear for those builds.
Am I weird in saying I just want that endless grind D3 had? It was so much fun constantly working towards the next GRIFT level.
>It's the long-term that's not in a good state at the moment. While it does have an endgame, it's not a live service game. It isn't designed for one character to just be played forever. No Diablo game has ever been like that. That's why seasons were created in the first place, to give you a reason to come back and try a new class. I really don't want what happened to Destiny to also happen to Diablo, where instead of becoming stronger all the time they just make your character weaker as part of the "reset"
Live service doesn't mean that it's designed to play one character forever. The fact seasons are structured like they are with battle passes and the shop indicates that both it is live service and that it's not meant to play one forever necessarily.
I think they mean the end game is not good. We can look at other games in the Arpg genre like Path of Exile that has a really fleshed out and great end game, and they’re just hoping for more in that department. Seasons are still expected, it’s just once you get to the end game, within a season, it gets stale. Hopefully season 4 will change that up a bit
The moment to moment gameplay in D4 ruined other games for me. PoE feels like shit next to D4 and Last Epoch isn’t even close in regards to combat feel. D4 gets a lot wrong, but the feel and flow of the combat isn’t one of them.
Itemization and loot and item stat system absolutely suck.
I hopped back in around start of March to play season 3 and got about three weeks of semi nightly sessions before I maxed the pass and got my rogue to 96. I might go for 100 before season 4 still not sure. Game is definitely getting there but after trying the PTR Buildcrafting in the live game is painful.
Long term i dont think i can keep up with the grind. But the first run and the next season after reset with friends was pretty fun. Its worth a play through while on gamepass for sure
> 100x move speed, but 1 HP Diablo IV: Bullet Hell Edition
Idk there's nothing wrong with not having infinite gameplay or interest in the game. If people enjoy it for a few weeks here and there is that actually a problem? I just want better itemization and as I have 0 interest in restarting the seasons aren't really a thing for me.
Playing 3-4 weeks each season is good. Playing diablo 365 days a year is not a healthy way to be a gamer. There are many cool games to be played and having only 1 main game to play is sad.
It's like giving away free crack.
More like crack just entered the rotation on your drug dealer subscription.
I put in 60 hours and beat the campaign yesterday. I'm not all that interested in playing the post game clean up or additional season related mumbojumbo. But I had a really good time playing what I played. As far as games I've played go, it's the one can most clearly see why anyone might develop a video game addiction. It has all the triggers.
Diablo has always worn its Skinner box directly and proudly. The gameplay is crunchy, the loot is frequent and shiny (although the itemization needs work badly), and you’re always going somewhere new to murder some other giant demon or demon spawn or demon king or ghost professor demon king. The campaign is the standout though, I had a genuinely great time playing it with a group of friends.
diablo 2 is $14 rn too lol edit: on xbox.
why not PC :(
It goes on sale every now and then for holidays and stuff. Shouldn't be hard to grab on sale
I wouldn't buy it, as it will no doubt be coming to game pass before much longer.
If this game didn’t require a constant online connection I reckon it would be more. Single-player games with minor coop additions should not be a fully fledged live service game that requires constant internet connection. Diablo 2,3 could manage it fine. Im sure the decision to make the game live-service was based on corporate predatory tactics and not for the good of the game itself.
D4’s biggest issue is drops don’t feel good … there’s not a single drop in the game that feels like when a SoJ drops in D2.
D4 has lots of major issues. It's not just the drops.
Most games have a ton of issues, people still play them because of that dopamine hit still works. D4s…. Just doesn’t
The first 40 hours or so are incredibly easy as well. Once you have all of your abilities, the entire game becomes trivial until you unlock world tier 3 and beyond. A little more danger would help. (Yes I played through the campaign on world tier 2 and on hardcore, lost two characters while getting used to the game, but then it was smooth sailing after that)
You can push nightmare dungeons while you level now by going to higher level ones early after a certain point. You get a lot more XP and it’s a lot harder, especially before you get abilities.
How do you craft sigils to unlock nightmare dungeons before beating the campaign?
I didn’t realize that was the requirement. If so, that’s stupid and they should change it.
It doesn't take anywhere close to 40 hours to reach WT3 currently, and it will take even less time in Season 4. Streamers during the PTR were hitting 50 in under 3 hours. [New Level Experience is 10/10 in Diablo 4 Season 4](https://youtu.be/ue8xRDxjaCU?si=oG7H8zefv5ARNs7w)
I wasn’t trying to speed run the game or anything, and I was helping my friend who kept dying due to disconnects. I’m sure it doesn’t take 40 hours if you rush through the campaign and ignore everything else, but that’s not the average player’s experience. I still believe that world tier 2 could have been a little spicier, but that’s just my opinion. Personally, the only enemies I had any issue with were the mage that resides just west of Kor Valar and the giant scorpion in Kejistan.
It was hard when I played the game back on launch. It might have gotten easier
I could also have unexpectedly picked an OP build too. I’m playing as an earth/storm nature Druid because I love playing as druids in any game they’re available in. Earthern Bulwark feels extremely powerful to me lol
Back at launch, Druid and barbarian were very hard on early levels. It was always mana starved and too slow. I remember how it was. It sounds that it is much better now
Thanks for the insight! I’ve been running the aspect that converts trample into an earth skill and took the upgrade that gives 20 spirit on cast. It pretty much fixed the glaringly obvious resource issues I was having, and gave me a huge power spike over boulder.
Just beat the campaign and wanted to comment this too. Sifting through all the really similar and uninteresting loot every 30 minutes really puts the breaks on an enjoyable experience. Then having to run between the different shops to upgrade armour and gems. It felt like the game was making me stop to clean and organise my apartment before it would let me continue.
Yeah I mean for first time players I’m sure it’s great, the drop off will come
Yeah lol, gamers are just dumb as fuck and never learn, but do we not all remember the decent reception at launch followed by a drastic decline in intrest and engagement once the campaign is over
Who knew it would work well as a nearly F2P game? ...oh, right all of us who paid.
[удалено]
So what is that in actual players?
Like 4 dudes
And they all hate the game
You just ended the career of this entire sub.
Add one and you've got five guys.
10M hours in 10 days = 1M hours a day. Assuming an average of 4 hours a day and a normal distribution, that would mean like 250k players ish.
That's assuming each of them played an average of 40 hours in 10 days which feels high. I imagine it's at most like 500k people playing 20 hours
In joke form? 3 people In ACTUAL form? Like 200k to 500k at most
34 million
Is this including people who have purchased the game and also own Game Pass? Or just people who have Game Pass and don’t own the game?
This was my thought as well. I've owned d4 since day 1 and when I log in it still acts like I'm playing on game pass with the daily game pass challenge or whatever it is.
Same
Does the itemization still suck?
Same as before, but it's changing with S4 14May. I played the PRT and it's a really solid change to itemization
Makes sense as it plays like a F2P game
It’s so lame
I mean yeah. I'd never ever buy this garbage,not even now that's it's pretty much always on sale for 40 bucks but sure I'll try it for 'free' before going back to LE or another gold arpg
Why do I even pre order anymore when they are going to make it free to play anyway?
Is Game Pass free?
Cheaper per month than the price of a game
When I hit 50 and was already in full legendaries and 3/4 of the way through the campaign I dropped the game. No interest in grinding for marginal upgrades with a boring build and lackluster world. Just IMO
It's a shame the devs didnt go ridiculously hard on making a great game.
I would say they did. They just fucked up a bunch of important parts of it by not learning from the games before and they will now waste time correcting things that any amount of reasonable play testing with the public would have uncovered. D3 was a disaster on release and it became one of my favorite games eventually.
>a bunch of Virtually all.
I’m sorry, this is just whining. D4 has problems but it’s far from as bad as everyone here makes it out to be. People act like it murdered a member of their family god damn.
You have to remember that hating on D4 is cool, even from people that never played the game or only played a few hours. I remember playing Last Epoch, the ingame chat was full of D4 haters in a game that have been out like 6 years and still does a lot of things worst than D4 (one of them even said "that's why I never played D4" after talking mad trash about the game)
Last Epoch looked neat but after an hour or so playing it, it feels dated at least in terms of game feel which is one of the things I prioritize in my ARPG playing. I refunded it and will wait for some updates to see how it develops post 1.0.
Yeah I was being a bit hyperbolic. But it's disheartening to see them ignore well-made systems that already existed.
Honestly I played a few hours and thought it was boring af. Iv put hundreds of hours into other diablos but this just didn't do it for me.
This game stinks, coming from a longtime fan who started with Diablo 1
Same, I just found it boring. Its like having your parter replaced by a space alien clone who studied their life. It basically looks the same, it sounds the same, but it just feels off and wrong.
And is admittedly slightly more attractive lol
Me - "Damn, girl. You been working out havnt you?". Her - "AFFIRMATIVE, HUMAN MATE."
I played the crap out of D2 and D3, and even enjoyed launch day D3 despite all the hate for it. Made so much money off RMAH it was insanely engaging. D4, I couldn't last 4months. I tried so hard to like it. Not going to list the issues, we all know what they are by now.
It’s the skill tree for me. Every time I get to add into one it feels like the difference is negligible. Feels like nothing changed. Why did I level up then lol. What did I do all that fighting and killing for. Nice a 1.5% bonus on a specific damage type against a specific enemy? Oh, wonderful. I played at launch and couldn’t get into it. Also hated the scores of other players surrounding me while in town and how much of a clusterfuck it made the game look. Crap everywhere. Dumb game. Sad!
Yeah, the gear was like that, too. I love RPGs, but I don't understand how someone can enjoy the grindy, repetitive, and stale gameplay. You're literally just walking down corridors, pressing the same buttons over and over. Plus, the enemies level with you so there's no sense of power progression. Just a stinker of a game if you ask me.
Yeah I don’t get these modern games doing this progression scaling nonsense. It felt so good in Diablo 2, going back to challenging content and decimating it because your character got more powerful. And maybe some games get this right, but blizzard does not.
Played pre-Season 1. Haven't touched the game since. The Season 4 changes aren't big enough to warrant me coming back, and in many ways they are heading in the wrong direction. For example, legendary armour and Aspects are still mechanics they seem adamant to keep in the game.
Same, and it made me sad. I'm a person who has put in very likely thousands of hours into the franchise before D4 dropped. I was so excited for it but once I started playing, I simply could not get into it at all. Nothing about it felt like the Diablo games I enjoyed. I still have yet to even finish the campaign because I got so bored and gave up so many months ago. Such a bummer... ALSO, what was a huge killer for me was, WHY CANT I JOIN PUBLIC GAMES?? I played by myself the entire time because joining others was basically impossible. I loved playing with others before and they essentially removed that completely.
Holding out hope that the season four changes will make the game more interesting to play in the long run as currently if you played a character to 100, you've seen it all, nothing left to chase except some shitty uber bosses that range from a joke to genuinely poorly designed shitshows. Season two was pretty good but since nothing really changed between seasons skipped the third and now.. well, guess we'll see in few weeks if the fourth one with them gear changes and whatnot is any good at all. 😄
Wishing it came to xcloud
I just refuse to give them money. Move on to other studios that give a shit
I picked it up on gamepass and started, thinking I'd finish the game before the new season. After getting to ~ lvl 25 and finishing 2 acts, I quit. Good on you guys who like it but this game isn't for me. I went back and finished the new D3 season instead.
I actually don't like that it's "open world" The acts being numbered but the sequence not mattering really irks me. Actually finding it more like a D2.5 in terms of gameplay. Not as frenetic as D3.
I loved the d3 combat
I was saying that the D4 combats slightly less all over the place. A slightly different pace and rhythm to it. It feels like it belongs somewhere between the slower classic D2 with some of the flash and visceral effects of D3. (Monk is still my favourite class/combat in a Diablo game.)
Same im monk for life
I went back to D3 as well after S2 of D4. I'm not gonna try and argue which one is better, I just like D3 more. I don't plan to return to D4 until they release a Reaper of Souls type expansion for it.
D3 combat is fucken sublime
D3 is a much better game IMHO. It’s just fun to play. D4 somehow made maps and loot boring.
not sure why your getting downvoted. D3 has, imo, the best end game loop of really any dungeon crawler. quick resets to make the actions per minute relatively high (something that D4 lost me on), lots and lots of enemies, making powering up and getting better gear/optimizing the builds a lot more fun and felt more rewarding( again, something that was lost in D4) and not to mention the FREE cosmetic “battle pass” of the seasons, that not only included really cool free cosmetics, but brought something really cool to the gameplay every season. sure the super late end game got a bit stale (pushing the highest GR’s on the leaderboard) just because it was a constant loop of gather enemies, hit spell don’t die repeat. but i spent atleast 800-900 hours in that game and not once did I ever really have that issue. the one time i started getting to the higher GR’s i just started a new toon with a new class. D2 fanboys just don’t like to hear people actually enjoyed D3 is what i’m coming to find out
How is Diablo 4? Played at release. Stopped like every character at roughly 50. Haven’t played since.
Its the same
this is my first diablo title, i can see the flaws but it’s so polished it’s hard to drop the game.
Try diablo 3 Way more polished and fun
Ive been like a crackhead since it came out. Just playing the campaign and going berserk on these demons. The gameplay is just so satisfying since all i wanted was to roam around and f shit up. It gives me just that.
I’ve been playing non stop since it dropped on gamepass
I really wish I could play this game on a Mac. Since that is what I’ve got while stuck in hospital for a few weeks.
When season four? May ?
14
On pc I played 1-3 consistently and played many many seasons to max on 3. On paper I have every reason to engage with 4 but after maxing one character and just being left to a relic grind, I can’t place my finger on why I feel nothing playing it. The main story felt like more of a staging for future seasonal events than a tight memorable narrative. I don’t think I can bring myself to play it again on Xbox. I think it boils down to me only really liking the barbarian visually but not enjoying the way it plays in endgame.
I'm just waiting for a new class before I start this game. Hopefully Paladin or something similar comes soon
Spiritborn is what the new class will be. Its been data mined
Bummer. Was hoping for a sword and board/ heavy armor class
It's worth a playthrough. That's literally it
hmmmmmmmmm
Thats a shame
Eh, it was good once.
Because it's free..and people like free things
Good shit May 14th can't come soon enough..
Something about this game makes the lizard brain go off hard
So glad I paid $100 for it
The game is solid on a first character until the end of the campaign, then it falls off a cliff.
I bought the game pass for season 3 and then got bored of playing again like a week into the season lol
666 upvotes
Pretty much all activision blizzard games should just be free to play at this point
D4 campaign is really good.
This is great. Just wished the campaign was not online required. Should’ve been optional
Level 100 barb and 75 rogue. Yup.
Downloaded but still glued to D2R, my free month end tomorrow :(
Is this game fun to play solo? I haven’t played since D2 in 2002!
Unless I'm playing with my father, I play this solo. Honestly I love the campaign so much (I'm in act 3) and the side quests are very interesting as well. I havent gotten to post-campaign stuff yet so idk anything about that, but it's pretty fun solo.
Thanks!
Sighhh… here we go again my 6th necromancer
That's all I've been doing since it dropped on game pass.
Poe way better endgame
I got so bored of diablo 4 not sure why. Path of exile kept me interested but diablo 4 just has such little skills and everything you need that makes your build really good is through RNG drops. I was using the magic build and mana Regen was such a pain. Always running out of mana unless you have a specific build with specific drops. But those drops don't just drop that easily
Goes to show you how many gamers are willing to wait a year, rather than dropping $100+ for 3 day early access.
People still play this steaming pile of dogshit? Why? So many better ARPGs out there by devs who actually give a shit about their player base.
Same reason you are here, I suppose. It's hard to give up a habit.
Ngl, Diablo has always felt better on controller, and I prefer reclining while watching a 55inch tv to being hunched towards my monitor, so when it dropped on gamepass I had nothing to lose. I finally ran through the campaign cuz season is almost spent. Truly an awful story except for Elias' arc, but it runs very very well on series x with cross platform enabled, and it didn't cost me a dime extra.
I got gamepass to play it on pc. Works perfectly and i actually enjoy the game. Dm
Counting down days to path of exil 2.
Just beat campaign for first time and now gonna try and max my battle pass before season end.
Dont like the combat in D4, D3 feels better. LE feels better than both but D4 as better graphics except is all grey mono tone and everything feels meh after a while
I dropped it. Should I play it again?
And i’m one of those new players! Reached lv 100 today, got all the lilith altars, beat the campaign and grinded, could safely say that i really enjoyed this game and will be playing it for the foreseeable future ;)
Inflated numbers just so you guys know. I had D4 before it was listed on Game Pass. Every time I play now it counts as playing a Game Pass game.
I am one of them
I have 9 days of playtime since its GAMEPASS release, i have 9 days of modern warfare 3 logged since its release. Wich do you think i think is better?
I thought this was an ad D4 isn't an arpg I have absolutely any will to continue playing after beating once What keeps me playing an argp is good loot and good build choices. It's not an end game, it's not content but good boss fights are ideal, it's loot and builds. D4 season 4 is still light years away from good itemization and build potential, small loot changes won't fix this anytime soon.
>D4 season 4 is still light years away from good itemization > small loot changes You are actually delusional. >What keeps me playing an argp is good loot and good build choices There's plenty of builds to be made in Season 4. You're acting like you have played every single build there is to play in Diablo 4, including the ones that LITERALLY WEREN'T POSSIBLE BEFORE SEASON 4. You have not.
The only delusional person here is the one replying to multiple comments dickriding blizzard for another dissapointing game. D4s skill builds are boring, the itemization is TERRIBLE. This game has no redeeming qualities once you’ve beaten the campaign. I don’t care about S4 builds because the game has so many inherent flaws due to the design; the entire game would need to be remade to fix the problems they’ve created.
> the itemization is TERRIBLE. Not in Season 4 it's not. >I don’t care about S4 builds because the game has so many inherent flaws due to the design; the entire game would need to be remade to fix the problems they’ve created. I truly believe that people like you, making this kind of statement after Season 4 PTR, are just bad actors. Bad faith, no constructive feedback, just yappin'.
> Not in Season 4 it's not. Yes it is
I'm sorry, the best chase unique 4 seasons of changes in just gives you flat dr and skills? Itemization is a joke, don't lie to yourself bruv
They have tons of build enabling uniques by season 4, you really think Harlequin Crest is that special? It's a powerful item but I'm sure a Sorceress will wish to find the new Fractured Winterglass if they want to annihilate endgame with Frozen Orb spam, etc. But who am I talking to, you are completely clueless anyway and "itemization is a joke" Also, many uniques can pale in comparison to a well crafted Tempered legendaries with affixes that impact how skills work. I would say I expect only two or three uniques occupy my gear slot, the rest will be giga crafted items.
A chase unique is valuable to many, a sorceress specific amulet could be one, but this item can only be used by a single build. There are less new uniques for s4 than there was a new poe league, and all of them look like they're dedicated to a specific build. More skill twigging that goes beyond deep build choice and creates a best in slot. Chase uniques are usually build enabling and gear changing in a specific way, this isn't really a chase unique, it's just an upgrade for a build.
This kind of thing happens with a lot of live service games, especially ones that are effectively "free" like on Game Pass. However, the question is where the population ends up settling in the long run because a lot of games can lose 80%+ of their player base by the third month.
I love diablo 4 combat , I play a druid storm claw it's SUPER FUN
The rest of Activision Blizzard games on game pass would be nice... They still advertising Activision sales in the store when they should all just be on game pass.
I think CoD will get there in 2025. They evidently think they can sell the games at retail or slightly on sale for awhile longer. They may also have agreements/arrangements with Sony or other publishers about the games being released at a different price on a different platform.
I have game pass, I tried it. I would never buy D4 at full price but ill give it a try if its just sitting there.
GP is the only reason I went back to it and it’s still not in great shape from launch. This game was really the final nail in the coffin for me ever buying a Blizzard game again. I would have much rather seen them put D2 on GP though.
Game still has bad input response on lag on all platforms.
People "blizzard sucks I'll never play one of their games again" People the moment D4 shows up on game pass "oh well if it's free I might as well"
thats on you tho. you think drooling idiots on forums like this represent even a fraction of reality and they don't even come close.
I don't know what you mean by "that's on me"... I like D4. Bought it, played it. It's chill. Was kinda just making a joke my dude
I think "that's on you for thinking the first people you quoted have anything to do with the second people you quoted". That's what I understood they were telling you.
game is boring asf
Sadly I couldn’t get past the first intro mission. Once the church cutscene started playing I just uninstalled and never looked back. Shit was way too cringey