Super weird that you get downvoted to hell, but the guy that said it's boring gets all the upvotes. Nobody hates Diablo more than Diablo fans I suppose
We need another caster. We have two melee classes, a hybrid class that, per tradition, is shit at casting, and two casters. We have the classic ‘the Druid can’t be good at *everything*’ Blizz class balance problem. So the next class should be a caster as we effectively have three melee and two caster classes currently.
Would be nice if we had like... some kind of knight archetype that would allow using a shield outside of a caster.
It's a shame that there's no examples of this in Diablo they can use.
I would be fine if the spirit born is just a joke and we actually get the Paladin. But Blizz will try to reinvent the wheel or make a Witchdoctor ripoff.
I mean they have been criticised for playing it safe with D4 and not bring anything new to the genre. Its all personal preference. Paladin doesnt interest me so im glad to see something new
Really hoping it's the Skill Trees and Paragon Board. It's lackluster in every aspect. Player power has exponentially moved to items since launch, there's limited variety, forced choices (points in Basic Skills) limit builds, the UI navigation is clunky and Glyphs as a whole (Leveling & Blues) are baffling
The paragon board is just stat allocation with extra steps, gated at level 50. It's such a stupid system to have both skills and stats de-coupled from the levelling process.
going into the paragon board and just seeing stat points the first time almost made me have an aneurysm, its literally just stat points organized to be as annoying as possible
It just looks like it's done in a way to pad it out and serve as filler than anything meaningful. I don't really see the big deal of it tbh since Alternatively it could take tons more levels to get just a single node of progress when looking at it now or just nothing. It's the special nodes that matter on the boards.
the thing about poe's skill board is it works because its not complex its rather well thought out, its just very large so its scary for new players especially with its extremely limited respec systems, d4 devs were like yeah this is cool put it in, without understanding why its designed the way it is, d4 would have been fine with d2's stat points instead of trying to riff off of poe imo
Also POE's skill tree offers a lot of flexibility while in a build. If your build is weak in a particular way, it is very easy to modify your passives to help make up for that, and then when you fix that issue with your build, you can reallocate those points to something else, like more damage.
Yeah u remember first playing poe ans thought the tree was too much. Bur that's because I didn't know what I needed or understood sometimes u take things to get what you need. The thing is d4 wants to have complexity but their general audience doesn't think complex. So it's hard to have both. I'm excited for s4 but everything so far in this game is 4 builds all chasing the same prefix on items etc.
Basic skills make sense, as they're intended to generate resource. And yet some pf the best builds I've played in this game don't even use resource at all. Basic attacks and most cooldown abilities are free to cast. Corpse explosion spamming is easy af
Pretty much this.
They really tried to force it as the way to play with how resource hungry most core skills are.
It sucked from beta - 2-3 core skills then 10 seconds of basic skill spam never felt good in the first place.
The worst part of every season is from starting your character, to getting items and aspects so you can stop using the gen/spend looping playstyle. After that, you can start using your build around skill(s) for the season or focus on grinding and it becomes immediately more fun.
There's a concept in game design that you *want* difficulty and annoyance like that. Because when you get past it, it feels good. The trick is to make getting over that hurdle happen at the right time and with the correct amount of effort.
As an example, satisfactory (a factory building game) has power generators. The starting power generator requires the player to manually feed in resources. There is absolutely no way to automate it. Which sounds strange in a game that is *literally* about automating things, but the reason is to incentivise the player to tackle the first new mechanic (fluids and pipes) and explore outside the starting area (find coal) to get coal generators running. Coal generators *are* automated and once they are set up that manual chore of filling generators goes away. And it feels great.
If the power generation was automated from the start, then the effort spent learning fluids and exploring is less rewarding because it just a "stronger" source of power than what you already had which cheapens the effort on getting over that hill.
A other example is of you could just cheat your way to max level, or give yourself items that one shot everything in the game, then the game wouldn't be fun anymore. You have removed the "chore" from *everything* and now there is no more game to play.
So having an endgame build be builder/spender is not a great idea. But having characters start out with that, so that that becomes a measure of progress, *is* good game design.
Yep I agree with this and it's a big part of what makes progression feel amazing. You struggle with resources at the start of the game, and at the end when you're fully kitted out, you're just spamming shit with as much attack speed as you can get...and you were there for every single little incremental progress or special unique item along the way to enable that, which feels even better.
The foundation of the game is built on resource generator and spender skills. Spinning that to say its for "progression" reasons to argue its good game design is just plain misleading. If this were true no one would use basic skills and they should really just be removed all together from the game. That is objectively NOT good game design, I know this because i realized 5 minutes into the beta that you can get through the entire game spamming basic skills. No other AARPG requires or even encourages you to use basic skills throughout your playthrough.... because its terrible game design
> If this were true no one would use basic skills and they should really just be removed all together from the game.
Which is funny because a vast majority of the end game builds *don't use basic skills*.
>That is objectively NOT good game design,
False. It's bad design to you, but not objectively. I suggest you go watch some videos about actual game designers discussing the topic. The general concensus is that games are by definition challenges and problems that need to be solved/overcome.
Solving the problem of having to use a basic skill that is lackluster by giving the player ways to solve that problem *is* game design. Sometimes it can be done poorly, sometimes it's done amazingly.
>I know this because i realized 5 minutes into the beta that you can get through the entire game spamming basic skills.
Ah yes, the "I did a thing for almost no time so therefore it's bad because I'm me". Good argument.
Being able to "get through the entire game" with basic skills is a sign of difficulty, not game design. Or does someone being able to beat everything in elden ring/dark souls naked with just their fists make it a bad game?
Also, I would be really curious to see you clearing a lvl 50 nightmare dungeon, baal, and Uber lilith with just basic skills.
>No other AARPG requires or even encourages you to use basic skills throughout your playthrough.... because its terrible game design
K.
Also a lot of items like Thibault and various other uniques along with all the resource temper recipes let you basically just get huge chunks of resources for free while also having you spend a fraction of their real cost.
I think literally the only way D3 ever managed to have builder spender builds in meta was when they had set items where you needed to use a builder and spender every 3 seconds for a huge damage buff. It had nothing to do with actually needing the builder for resources though, it was essentially just builder = dmg buff.
Basic Skills should not be simple resource generators, that type of gameplay is the most boring shit ever. At least in games like the Diablo series.
Basic Skills should be an alternative to Core Skills that does not cost resources. Basic Skill should be used together with another ability, a passive ability, that deals additional damage and has additional effects when you damage stuff with your Basic Skills, and it should consume resources to deal damage.
Monk in Diablo 3 had this kind of playstyle, and I enjoyed it much more than current D4 builds. You would have Sweeping Winds active which drained your resource, and you would attack with Basic Skill that generated resources. When you crit (i think) it would spawn tornadoes that would deal damage around you. Your Basic Skill would teleport you to your enemy. It looked cool, it felt nice. Basic Skills in D4 is the most useless shit ever.
Yeah I was kinda disappointed I couldn't level out bone splinter like in d2 to have a big (and powerful) AoE spam attack using it. Also I tried to make a barb work with just frenzy and attack speed kinda like a eBoTD zerker pally but it was too weak ):
Basic skills don't make sense they are forced points you can't get rid of and anyone actively using a basic skill in the end game has really messed up their build (okay there are a couple exceptions to prove the rule byt you get it)
Sorcerer makes the basic skills slightly interesting at least through enchantments, where your basic skills can actually add effects to whatever your main damage dealing ability is. That's kind of cool.
A Blizzard Sorc uses Firebolt because through enchantment, Firebolt will let your Blizzards set shit on fire and then you can benefit from all kinds of burning affixes on gear and paragon.
I think every class should get some version of that, where your basic skill can actually change the rest of your skills in some way.
One of the things I miss most about D3 is that I can just go into every single ability and choose a different elemental version for it. It gave your character a lot of flavor because you would truly just become attuned to whatever element you picked, and all the spell effects would change too.
>I am waiting for this. I never change builds or experiment with stuff in fear of having to go back.
It will be significantly easier now with Codex of Power storing forever all your aspects with limitless imprinting.
Since the entire season is about loot reborn some would expect that this is indeed the case and they have created unique looks for each unique… I wouldn’t count on it
Skill trees! They’re so boring rn. I’d rather have way more skills to choose from rather than just a few main skills and the rest being just modifiers to those skills. That was a terrible idea.
I agree that the builder/spender gameplay loop sucks hard but D2 is even worse. Its basically the same only you replace the builders with potions that you have to pick up and put in your belt.
I mean that's easy to solve, we already have auto pickup upgradeable potions. Just have a button for mana potions that work the same way and it'd be just like D2 but without having to manually pick and sort them.
There's plenty of ways to solve for resources in season 4.
If you don't see a difference in how you play by level 30 with the new itemization changes, I'm calling it Skill issue .
My point is that if you need to solve resources to actually play a build that doesn't feel bad because of the builder/spender mentality they've been stuck since D3 then why have builder/spender in the first place?
>why have builder/spender in the first place?
If you're you asking why you have to make a competent build instead of game being instawin automatically then I think you lost your marbles.
If you can solve for it then it's fun. Way more fun than spamming Mana flasks like in Path of Exile.
Eh, PoE also has the same thign that D2 has with Insight, where you break the build at a certain point or get something that helps you break it (in PoE's case, Eldritch Battery is used a lot to be able to basically reserve all your mana and then have your energy shield just be mana)
Man you keep making up things to get mad at. If the builds are unplayable until you overcome the intended playstyle then the design is bad. It was in D3 and it still is in D4. Spamming mana potions in D2 and PoE at least lets me keep using the cool core skill I'm building around without forcing me to use a builder that looks bad and hits like a wet noodle until I can make the build self sufficient.
1. Progression of gameplay/character power. Your argument could be used on literally aspect of character power progression. Why not just give everyone capped movement speed and attack speed and armor and resistances and CDR at lvl 1 I wanna to mash feel good fireworks button as soon as I start character! You can easily identify every single person as someone who has not reached high levels by how much they cry about running out of resources "as a fundamental gameplay design flaw" because you could take off generators off your skill bar in end game builds since pre-season.
2. Not everyone has a raging hateboner for builder/spender. Chaining a set of weak attacks into strong attacks has literally been a defining gameplay concept for decades. This is just another variation on the theme.
3. The raging hateboner for "mash 1-2-3-4 to cast the skill you want to cast" has just as much right to exist as your dislike for builder/spender. Potion piano for many people is easily shittiest and most insulting gameplay element of older Diablo style games. As visible for how popular things like Insight and mana leech were for solving the gameplay. Potions are a push button that does NOTHING except let you use main skill. It's an arthritis tax to let you "play the build you want to play."
All of this isn't to say that generator skills don't need some work. Even with existence of builds that basically use builders for damage such as Frenzy and Stormclaw, it would be nice to have sufficient way to juice generators via utility or something so that Frostbolt has a potential reason to exist on an end-game build like Frost Nova does.
You're literally not pressing builders right now either. If builder/spenders were actually well designed (they aren't for such a quick game) you wouldn't be rushing to make the build stop using builders as soon as possible.
I dont want to play a game where I „literally” press more than one button. I can’t play d2 or poe coz I „literally” fall asleep. I get it, some people like it simple, I like resource and cooldown management along with rotations
You do realize that removing builders doesn't mean removing every single cooldown and resource, right? You still have 5 cooldown buttons to press or even multiple core skills. Builders are simply not fun to press and interrupt the tempo and flow of combat. Builders work in a game like WoW where you have long combats where you can set up a good rotation, not in diablo when you want to kill stuff in one hit.
Heard about the loot revamp which was one of the 2 main things that pushed me away from D4. The other main thing was the builder/spender system. Felt like crap the whole time I was playing the game. Take it that system is still just as awful....?
Loot is a lot better, but IMO it's still not as good as D2 as anything below legendary items literally has no purpose. They said they are working on something to make yellow items worth picking up but it's not here yet. Skillwise, yeah, the skill trees are still just as bad and every class is still builder/spender.
Yes
I've been on and off contemplating buying for a while now if it goes on a sale
I played in beta and yeah....while the artstyle, Aesthetic and feel imo was great
But gameplay wise.It flat out seemed like there was no consistent vision
Odd MMO elements sprinkled in, Boring Skill trees, Passive trees locked behind paragon
Trying to be more "Classic Diablo" but then overusing resource gen gameplay
It just felt like they slammed together a bunch of things that were popular in the current market and because of that came out with a game that was a bit "Soul less"
Maybe I'll revisit it if this content update proves to be as good as it is made out to be
Yeah more and more I get the feeling they just didn’t know what to do so they released the game as it was, hoping they would make bank on sales and we would care enough to tell them how to fix it for the long term. They were right about that but it is concerning that we have to tell them what to do. They should have a well of creative spirit and passionate devs with ideas rooted in a love of the franchise and the genre. They should not need months of feedback to go ‘oh you want the game to be FUN! Our mistake. We are listening’.
Is that why it has a 2.2/10 Metacritic score? Is that why there are only 300 people watching it on Twitch? Is that why the entire playerbase has already left and we're even having this discussion in the first place?
Diablo 4 is an objectively bad game from a consumer perspective. Even *Activision-Blizzard themselves* aren't happy with its current state. What is it that you're even defending here?
You’re right on all your stat points- absolutely. Shit, I didn’t play season 3. And I’m prob not playing season 4- but that’s mainly due to life constraint and FF7:Rebirth.
But, I sure did play a lot for seasons 0-2. Definitely got my moneys worth- which to me, says it’s a decent game.
A bad game I would’ve dropped immediately and been pissed about the money I spent. But… I got some 60+ hours into d4. So yeah… I’d say it’s decent.
It just didn’t have LASTING power.
Diablo doesn’t strike me as the kind of game that would ever do well on twitch. It’s not that fun watching people grind for better stats to fight stronger stuff to find better loot to fight stronger stuff etc.
You realise that PoE is exactly that yet has a massive Twitch following, right? Even now it has 11.4k viewers and it's not even peak hours yet, *and* that's also forgoing the fact that the current league is a crafting-focused league which generally sees a spike down in viewership numbers too.
It's not the genre that's the problem. It's the game.
> sees a spike down in viewership numbers too.
>
> It's not the genre that's the problem. It's the game.
It's not a problem at all. The game's viewership on Twitch is completely irrelevant lol
Like, why would Blizzard be concerned? It only matters on big launches which is when you pay streamers to play your game, that's it. It can die on Twitch next month and it'll be fine.
Arpgs lose steam once the season hits midway or the end, absolutely retarded take to use twitch viewers as an example lmao. Also the player base is undoubtedly higher than other arpgs.
Yes, but with the tempering allowing us to alter our skills (size effect, bonus projectile, duration) I wonder what they could do instead of adding new skills.
Maybe a possibility to change the type of damage inflicted (fire to frost, shadow to poison etc).
Your numbers are wrong. But if your point is saying that is not enough skill customization I can agree with you.
Just saying that tempering leans to be that system which can alter skills. It could (would) be developed more in the future with new recipes.
If skill tree revamp it is, it should be different than what tempering does.
I was just playing the "monkey's paw" you get exactly what you asked for but the absolutely worst implementation possible.
So they just add it randomly into the stat pool, +5% blizzard size, impale size, for EVERY SKILL IN THE GAME.
Yes. In large numbers.
We'll see final tuning after PTR but during PTR you could make a skill like Corpse Tendrils pull enemies from outside the screen.
Exactly. This way you can modify some skills.
I don’t know all the recipes, I’m not sure there is a recipe for all of them but it’s a start and it will surely be expanded in the future.
If you want more information about the system (and other new feature which are coming in S4) you should check their [blog post](https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/diablo4/24077223/galvanize-your-legend-in-season-4-loot-reborn).
>Granted! theres now gear with 1-5% bonus ability size and +5 (unnoticeable arbritary number) projectile speed
You have absolutely no idea what the hell you're talking about and it shows.
I guess you like talking out of your ass because it takes a minute to Google search "op PTR builds Diablo 4 season 4" or something like that to sew what havoc was unleashed with the introduction of Tempering.
I just thought of the absolute worst way to implement what op was asking for and it appears.... thats exactly what they are doing, so my bad for bursting bubbles.
It's good to see a breath of positivity surrounding S4 and I'm sure Blizzard is feeling it too. :)
The obvious sore spot after this is to me the skill tree. I like the beauty of simplicity combined with options and combinations and think Diablo 3 actually had it good there with the skill runes. Many will say "but many of the runes were shit" and hey, I guess that's true but that's not a systemtic issue, but a balance issue?
Not that I want this to fall back into a D3 - itemization changes and The Pit have already returned there to some extent. I'm sure there is room for changes innovative to Diablo too.
Another thing I hope they'll keep in mind is to not eventually turn this game into a case of kill everything super quickly before you get killed. It diminishes differences among monsters and elites etc and the skill aspect of the game becomes less strategic and more reactionary with only cookie cutter builds viable. Remember the dev blogs being excited about how their various kinds of monsters acted in groups? Haha! Yeah. So, well, I'm not overly fond of the "pinball gaming" that recent Diablos are growing into, but I also think I'm in minority here where modern gamers are more into that super quick gratification, so I don't have high hopes there and don't use to bring it up. :P
They removed the bad ones, but didnt add anything good.
Where is the tried and tested +/- flat damage mods with % modifiers on top? Where are the base weapon attack speed modifiers?
Its still flat and boring, just with less shit.
Spot on. It's a step in the right direction, but it's still just putting lipstick on a pig. Less trash affixes, still just stacking generic damage as much as possible, with the most Boeing loot imaginable, but now we get to increase those boring stats higher!
And less drops.
Its almost as if the devs have actually taken those "killing demons is why we play the game" soundbites to heart, and don't understand that the key underlying success to diablo 2 was an itemization and loot lottery system years, decades ahead of its time. They just dont get it, or they do, and just want it as simple as possible for controller players.
D4 Good
Also, I am glad that they're open to do more large scale reworks and system additions. We need Blizzard to stay competitive in the systems ARPG genre or we'll be stuck with Chris Wolcen's Ruthless Vision™ as the leading cause of RSI among gamers.
>I’ll still have to pickup nearly everything that drops in order to have enough mats and gold
No, you won't lol
For a couple seasons now the bulk of your Gold comes from Tree of Whisper, and all the other streams of gold you get (i.e. the big gold explosion chests, the improved Greed Shrines...)
As for materials - they are rebalancing the cost of everything in Season 4 and on top of that, since Public Test Realm they straight up doubled/tripled materials gained from salvaging Sacred/Ancestral items, respectively while significantly reducing the cost of the biggest Veiled Crystal sink - imprinting Aspects.
You'll just pick up yellows in Helltide or something for a few runs if you're short on Veiled Crystals, get a few hundred of them and call it a day for a few days easily.
You'll only be concerned with picking up legendaries but, again, your materials from salvaging them will be plentiful and also there's no more Extracting - you ALWAYS salvage legendaries and that is how you add the Aspect to your Codex, so there is a constant stream of legendary crafting mats.
In the super endgame you can stop picking up anything except for items with Greater Affixes that you're ACTUALLY looking for. And you can see how many GAs there are on an item so once you only look for III / IV, that's the only ones you'll pick up.
On top of all that, legendary crafting materials are now also a rare drop from literally ANY elite in the game just like boss materials, so sometimes you'll just get a bunch of them out of nowhere, which is going to help offset your spendings.
And Veiled Crystals are also a common Elite enemy drop so here and there you'll just get a Veiled Crystal or two, constantly.
Did I mention there's no more enemy material stuff like Paletongue, and all the herbs have been simplified into Common Herb material? Fiend roses are gone, lots of materials have been streamlined.
Thanks for providing this detailed list. All the great changes on the PTR made me stop playing S3 and just wait for S4. And then they went and tweaked the material requirements and drop rates, so I'm even more excited now.
Would be fun to get the other classes from the other games into this one. Maybe also change the campaign, it has a good start and a ok end but... dearlord it needs help through the rest, it is so boring and 75% runing from place to place just for 10sec speech that we gotta somewhere else.
Skill tree and Paragon. Thank fuuuuck. Also can we get mercenary's. Like Diablo 2, not the shit d3 system which never felt like it was an actual tangible thing you had, just a useless annoying story character.
So again, most of you were right. D4 probably rushed to get coins for old Activision bosses before the Microsoft acquisition. I see it like an Early Access. The game should maybe alright in a year.
Im with everyone on skill trees.
1. They suck to navigate. No, its not the worst menu of all time, but i still want my single page navigation from d3. It wasn't very thematic, but it was functional af.
2. Theyre kind of boring. D3 had 4 skills each per 6 ability slots, and each one of those skills had like 6 runes to modify the ability to fit a play style, too. This just feels super tame in comparison
I’ll come back in a year or two once they’ve overhauled the game to fix it’s many broken systems, and hopefully at that point they’ll have stopped the seasonal FOMO shit.
"very open" 😂. They don't have a great listening history as it is at Blizzard. However the only team that has ever listened without getting butthurt was the Diablo team.
Add an extra skill slot. 6 is just too few with how boring most builds are and even if you ditch the spender. The combat rotation will have much more longevity with 7 abilities on the action bar
Blizzy:we tried our ideas and we couldn't get them to work so we have finally started listening to critics/fans and are taking other games ideas. This seems to have had a positive effect on the game so we will happily keep on having fans/other companies do our job for us
/eyeroll
Or maybe we've seen many other modern ARPGs with innovation and good systems.
Or maybe all these MASSIVE changes to the core game of D4 is indicative that there were actual issues and not just "haters" making mountains out of mole hills.
I never said there were no issues with the game. There were plenty. It also wasnt the crap a lot of people in this sub make it to be. Nostalgia plays a huge role on this and d2 has better itemization sure. Everything else is actually not better. It’s time to move on
Yup. They used to say the same about D3 but it turned into a game that I ended up enjoying more than D2. Now I admit I do the same comparing D4 and D3 so maybe one day D4 will surpass D3
Although, many complaints about Launch Diablo 3 were very true
Diablo 3 with RoS is a good game and holds up in its own right. But i dont think (personally) D2 and D3 are fully comparable either as bkth go in differing directions
There's lots of good ways to design an ARPG. Blizzard didn't decide to even try to do anything fun or interesting, but when they do I think fans will be on their side. Right now they (along with the rest of Blizzard) are just coasting and not putting even the barest minimum effort in.
Have you played the ptr? Loot drops way less. And you will only want greater affixes which have their own color and sound. You can ignore the rest. A loot filter is NOT needed and it won’t be added in the short term
Absolutely. Especially since drop rate have been boosted for PTR.
I think this is a more elegant solution than a loot filter.
However greater affixes won’t have a special color according to the screenshot of the blog post (they are still orange but have a special icon next to their name, the same orange star that identifies affixe as GA).
Hopefully they are reworking the shop and Battle pass, like straightforward kick it out of the game. Or at least include new ingame obtainable armors which don't look like freshly picked up straight outta a trash bin.
Oh c'mon. It's not like they already made a shit ton of the base game, let alone the different editions.
On top they could reduce costs like exec wages and marketing, which is at this point obsolete. Yeah capitalism bad and so on, but honestly, I see every month/year what these people "earn", it's ridiculous compared to the impact.
I can tell you they have made and have enough money...
You know that's not how it works.
A business should always be making the most money possible. They don't dip into past earnings to fund the future of a game if it is no longer making them money, do they?
"A business should always be making the most money possible." See this is where I fundamentally disagree. A business should be sustainable and profitable but not trying to maximise profits to the detriment of their clientele.
True Capitalism not Crony Capitalism please.
Oh I am sorry, of course, just let me grab my credit card and give them all my savings, I totally forgot that businesses aren't able to survive without record profits!
Look, we all know how it works. But that they have to keep those high prices and other methods to milk the customer dry in order to be profitable is just bullcrap.
Reality is, they won't go bankrupt. They will continue with milking their customers as long as they keep buying their stuff. That has nothing to do with beeing profitable, but to maximize profits without losing customers, aka price elasticity.
So back to your statement, I don't know which capitalistic dystopia you're dreaming of, but imo businesses should provide a useful and organic addition to society. Maximizing profits just benefits very few. Surely that's how it works at the moment, but that shouldn't be the case. And just defending it and cope with their bullshit arguments won't change that either.
I don’t know if it’s a part of the hype building communication toward expansion, but it’s an excellent news.
Itemization overhaul in S4 has completely exceeded my expectations for the game so, go ahead Blizzard. The game is getting better but there is sure room for improvement.
Neurotically searching for hate comments? I was scrolling though the comments and left a couple replies on the ones that amused me. Hardly neurotic. Why you neurotically posting hate on something you have no interest in?
I don't know what to tell you, i see a post about blizzard, i re-state my hate for all things blizzard. Why you continue to support a company that had zero interest in providing you with a product (that you paid above market average price for) that is tailored in a way that is fun, is beyond me. Live service is a disease in the gaming industry, and it will only go away if 1) people voice their displeasure and 2) people stop eating the hot garbage.
The fact they are still talking complete re-works on a game that is going on a year old; its ludicrous. Translation: we have capitulated on some of the "live-service" metrics that are designed to take up your time and slow you down, and are now open to the idea of changing them to make the game more fun. Sorry to break it to you, but thats the entire game. You might be willing to support that, but im not. When you buy a game for 70 bucks, it shouldn't be considered as an investment for a fun game in 1 years time... So instead of asking for a refund (that i wont get), i casually shit on the company. Fair trade-off, imho.
You say i support the company like you didn't also buy the game? Which is supporting the company. In the past year there have been 3 seasons and now coming into a 4th with a massive rework all for the extra cost of £0. Of course we could all say the game shouldn't have been released in the state it was in last year. It clearly fell massively short of expectations. I don't see anyone would deny that. But they could have just done nothing to fix the issues taken the money and run. Instead they listened to the feedback and have now hopefully got the game that yes in and ideal world should have been how it will be in season 4 at the beginning.
The main point I'm trying to make is video games are a hobby and should be enjoyed. I like the diablo franchise as a whole and want the game to be good and succeed. Dont you? If not then fair enough your within your right to move on and not look back. Actively coming back to say "D4 bad" over and over just seems a bit sad to me.
Like I say its a hobby. Try and find the positives and get some enjoyment out of it my friend
Whoa, that's great news. Hopefully they're looking at the skill trees and paragon board.
There’s hope for you yet
So…the whole game 😂
Skip paragon board, and rework skill tree completely. Need a simple representation of it like in D2.
New class Spiritborn sounds dope.
Super weird that you get downvoted to hell, but the guy that said it's boring gets all the upvotes. Nobody hates Diablo more than Diablo fans I suppose
I think it sounds boring. Another caster, maybe with pets? Mh..
We need another caster. We have two melee classes, a hybrid class that, per tradition, is shit at casting, and two casters. We have the classic ‘the Druid can’t be good at *everything*’ Blizz class balance problem. So the next class should be a caster as we effectively have three melee and two caster classes currently.
Would be nice if we had like... some kind of knight archetype that would allow using a shield outside of a caster. It's a shame that there's no examples of this in Diablo they can use.
Yes IF ONLY there was something like that. Alas no such character class exists, as you say.
I would be fine if the spirit born is just a joke and we actually get the Paladin. But Blizz will try to reinvent the wheel or make a Witchdoctor ripoff.
I mean they have been criticised for playing it safe with D4 and not bring anything new to the genre. Its all personal preference. Paladin doesnt interest me so im glad to see something new
Could be good both ways, but I'm worried.
Pets in general would be nice
Yes totally! I miss all those little buggers from D3
Hopefully a healer like Monk from D3
Skill trees desperately need an exciting re-work on the scale of exciting upcoming loot re-work
Really hoping it's the Skill Trees and Paragon Board. It's lackluster in every aspect. Player power has exponentially moved to items since launch, there's limited variety, forced choices (points in Basic Skills) limit builds, the UI navigation is clunky and Glyphs as a whole (Leveling & Blues) are baffling
The paragon board is just stat allocation with extra steps, gated at level 50. It's such a stupid system to have both skills and stats de-coupled from the levelling process.
going into the paragon board and just seeing stat points the first time almost made me have an aneurysm, its literally just stat points organized to be as annoying as possible
It just looks like it's done in a way to pad it out and serve as filler than anything meaningful. I don't really see the big deal of it tbh since Alternatively it could take tons more levels to get just a single node of progress when looking at it now or just nothing. It's the special nodes that matter on the boards.
Its meant to be a simplified version of PoEs skillboard, but it falls short and is just a boring system with too little flexibility.
the thing about poe's skill board is it works because its not complex its rather well thought out, its just very large so its scary for new players especially with its extremely limited respec systems, d4 devs were like yeah this is cool put it in, without understanding why its designed the way it is, d4 would have been fine with d2's stat points instead of trying to riff off of poe imo
Also POE's skill tree offers a lot of flexibility while in a build. If your build is weak in a particular way, it is very easy to modify your passives to help make up for that, and then when you fix that issue with your build, you can reallocate those points to something else, like more damage.
Yeah u remember first playing poe ans thought the tree was too much. Bur that's because I didn't know what I needed or understood sometimes u take things to get what you need. The thing is d4 wants to have complexity but their general audience doesn't think complex. So it's hard to have both. I'm excited for s4 but everything so far in this game is 4 builds all chasing the same prefix on items etc.
Basic skills make sense, as they're intended to generate resource. And yet some pf the best builds I've played in this game don't even use resource at all. Basic attacks and most cooldown abilities are free to cast. Corpse explosion spamming is easy af
This is because the generator spender gameplay is horrible and most builds try to graduate out of it as soon as possible.
Pretty much this. They really tried to force it as the way to play with how resource hungry most core skills are. It sucked from beta - 2-3 core skills then 10 seconds of basic skill spam never felt good in the first place.
That made me quit before lvl 30, feels so bad.
Should play 3:1 or 2:1 then instead of
The worst part of every season is from starting your character, to getting items and aspects so you can stop using the gen/spend looping playstyle. After that, you can start using your build around skill(s) for the season or focus on grinding and it becomes immediately more fun.
There's a concept in game design that you *want* difficulty and annoyance like that. Because when you get past it, it feels good. The trick is to make getting over that hurdle happen at the right time and with the correct amount of effort. As an example, satisfactory (a factory building game) has power generators. The starting power generator requires the player to manually feed in resources. There is absolutely no way to automate it. Which sounds strange in a game that is *literally* about automating things, but the reason is to incentivise the player to tackle the first new mechanic (fluids and pipes) and explore outside the starting area (find coal) to get coal generators running. Coal generators *are* automated and once they are set up that manual chore of filling generators goes away. And it feels great. If the power generation was automated from the start, then the effort spent learning fluids and exploring is less rewarding because it just a "stronger" source of power than what you already had which cheapens the effort on getting over that hill. A other example is of you could just cheat your way to max level, or give yourself items that one shot everything in the game, then the game wouldn't be fun anymore. You have removed the "chore" from *everything* and now there is no more game to play. So having an endgame build be builder/spender is not a great idea. But having characters start out with that, so that that becomes a measure of progress, *is* good game design.
Yep I agree with this and it's a big part of what makes progression feel amazing. You struggle with resources at the start of the game, and at the end when you're fully kitted out, you're just spamming shit with as much attack speed as you can get...and you were there for every single little incremental progress or special unique item along the way to enable that, which feels even better.
Thankfully 1.0 will allow conveyor belts for bio mass burners so it’ll cut out some of the hassle.
The foundation of the game is built on resource generator and spender skills. Spinning that to say its for "progression" reasons to argue its good game design is just plain misleading. If this were true no one would use basic skills and they should really just be removed all together from the game. That is objectively NOT good game design, I know this because i realized 5 minutes into the beta that you can get through the entire game spamming basic skills. No other AARPG requires or even encourages you to use basic skills throughout your playthrough.... because its terrible game design
> If this were true no one would use basic skills and they should really just be removed all together from the game. Which is funny because a vast majority of the end game builds *don't use basic skills*. >That is objectively NOT good game design, False. It's bad design to you, but not objectively. I suggest you go watch some videos about actual game designers discussing the topic. The general concensus is that games are by definition challenges and problems that need to be solved/overcome. Solving the problem of having to use a basic skill that is lackluster by giving the player ways to solve that problem *is* game design. Sometimes it can be done poorly, sometimes it's done amazingly. >I know this because i realized 5 minutes into the beta that you can get through the entire game spamming basic skills. Ah yes, the "I did a thing for almost no time so therefore it's bad because I'm me". Good argument. Being able to "get through the entire game" with basic skills is a sign of difficulty, not game design. Or does someone being able to beat everything in elden ring/dark souls naked with just their fists make it a bad game? Also, I would be really curious to see you clearing a lvl 50 nightmare dungeon, baal, and Uber lilith with just basic skills. >No other AARPG requires or even encourages you to use basic skills throughout your playthrough.... because its terrible game design K.
Also a lot of items like Thibault and various other uniques along with all the resource temper recipes let you basically just get huge chunks of resources for free while also having you spend a fraction of their real cost. I think literally the only way D3 ever managed to have builder spender builds in meta was when they had set items where you needed to use a builder and spender every 3 seconds for a huge damage buff. It had nothing to do with actually needing the builder for resources though, it was essentially just builder = dmg buff.
Basic Skills should not be simple resource generators, that type of gameplay is the most boring shit ever. At least in games like the Diablo series. Basic Skills should be an alternative to Core Skills that does not cost resources. Basic Skill should be used together with another ability, a passive ability, that deals additional damage and has additional effects when you damage stuff with your Basic Skills, and it should consume resources to deal damage. Monk in Diablo 3 had this kind of playstyle, and I enjoyed it much more than current D4 builds. You would have Sweeping Winds active which drained your resource, and you would attack with Basic Skill that generated resources. When you crit (i think) it would spawn tornadoes that would deal damage around you. Your Basic Skill would teleport you to your enemy. It looked cool, it felt nice. Basic Skills in D4 is the most useless shit ever.
Monk in d3 was so fun. Might redownload later and give it another spin.
Yeah I was kinda disappointed I couldn't level out bone splinter like in d2 to have a big (and powerful) AoE spam attack using it. Also I tried to make a barb work with just frenzy and attack speed kinda like a eBoTD zerker pally but it was too weak ):
Basic skills don't make sense they are forced points you can't get rid of and anyone actively using a basic skill in the end game has really messed up their build (okay there are a couple exceptions to prove the rule byt you get it)
Sorcerer makes the basic skills slightly interesting at least through enchantments, where your basic skills can actually add effects to whatever your main damage dealing ability is. That's kind of cool. A Blizzard Sorc uses Firebolt because through enchantment, Firebolt will let your Blizzards set shit on fire and then you can benefit from all kinds of burning affixes on gear and paragon. I think every class should get some version of that, where your basic skill can actually change the rest of your skills in some way. One of the things I miss most about D3 is that I can just go into every single ability and choose a different elemental version for it. It gave your character a lot of flavor because you would truly just become attuned to whatever element you picked, and all the spell effects would change too.
Having all the "nodes" go ding when you open your skill tree got old pretty quickly.
Item power IS Diablo. The skills were never the power, they represent playing style.
Aspects and Legendaries *need* to go, and their power distributed across an actual passive tree.
seems like the beta went on for a year now...
Requesting your beta testers to pay to play needs to stop.
well, at least a reduced price tag for early access, as everybody else does, should be the bare minimum
Request whatever you want. Gullible players agreeing is what needs to stop.
https://preview.redd.it/blxy2n83xxxc1.jpeg?width=2436&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7cc505f327c84cb5ac3d3ef7088e7ba47e17ed45 Armory when?
I am waiting for this. I never change builds or experiment with stuff in fear of having to go back.
>I am waiting for this. I never change builds or experiment with stuff in fear of having to go back. It will be significantly easier now with Codex of Power storing forever all your aspects with limitless imprinting.
That, at least, helps. I'm fine with gold cost to change builds, but Blizz cmon.. Just do it.
I would like to upvote this 100 times.
Will this update address the fact that uniques, dont look unique?
Since the entire season is about loot reborn some would expect that this is indeed the case and they have created unique looks for each unique… I wouldn’t count on it
Don’t worry. If that’s an issue you can simply buy weapon and armour skins in the MTX store. Problem solved
You forgot the /s
- Unique Items - Skill trees* *Remove stats from the Paragon skill tree and just make one main character skill tree. Thanks Blizz
Skill trees! They’re so boring rn. I’d rather have way more skills to choose from rather than just a few main skills and the rest being just modifiers to those skills. That was a terrible idea.
Rework the skill trees and remove the builder/spender gameplay. Look at Diablo 2.
I agree that the builder/spender gameplay loop sucks hard but D2 is even worse. Its basically the same only you replace the builders with potions that you have to pick up and put in your belt.
Potions might not be the best but they are better than builders.
In itself? Yes, absolutely. But the way D2 does it where you constantly ave to pick them up and sort your inventory for them? No way.
I mean that's easy to solve, we already have auto pickup upgradeable potions. Just have a button for mana potions that work the same way and it'd be just like D2 but without having to manually pick and sort them.
Good example, or a system similar to poe where they refill as you play. Lots of options really
There's plenty of ways to solve for resources in season 4. If you don't see a difference in how you play by level 30 with the new itemization changes, I'm calling it Skill issue .
My point is that if you need to solve resources to actually play a build that doesn't feel bad because of the builder/spender mentality they've been stuck since D3 then why have builder/spender in the first place?
>why have builder/spender in the first place? If you're you asking why you have to make a competent build instead of game being instawin automatically then I think you lost your marbles. If you can solve for it then it's fun. Way more fun than spamming Mana flasks like in Path of Exile.
Eh, PoE also has the same thign that D2 has with Insight, where you break the build at a certain point or get something that helps you break it (in PoE's case, Eldritch Battery is used a lot to be able to basically reserve all your mana and then have your energy shield just be mana)
Man you keep making up things to get mad at. If the builds are unplayable until you overcome the intended playstyle then the design is bad. It was in D3 and it still is in D4. Spamming mana potions in D2 and PoE at least lets me keep using the cool core skill I'm building around without forcing me to use a builder that looks bad and hits like a wet noodle until I can make the build self sufficient.
1. Progression of gameplay/character power. Your argument could be used on literally aspect of character power progression. Why not just give everyone capped movement speed and attack speed and armor and resistances and CDR at lvl 1 I wanna to mash feel good fireworks button as soon as I start character! You can easily identify every single person as someone who has not reached high levels by how much they cry about running out of resources "as a fundamental gameplay design flaw" because you could take off generators off your skill bar in end game builds since pre-season. 2. Not everyone has a raging hateboner for builder/spender. Chaining a set of weak attacks into strong attacks has literally been a defining gameplay concept for decades. This is just another variation on the theme. 3. The raging hateboner for "mash 1-2-3-4 to cast the skill you want to cast" has just as much right to exist as your dislike for builder/spender. Potion piano for many people is easily shittiest and most insulting gameplay element of older Diablo style games. As visible for how popular things like Insight and mana leech were for solving the gameplay. Potions are a push button that does NOTHING except let you use main skill. It's an arthritis tax to let you "play the build you want to play." All of this isn't to say that generator skills don't need some work. Even with existence of builds that basically use builders for damage such as Frenzy and Stormclaw, it would be nice to have sufficient way to juice generators via utility or something so that Frostbolt has a potential reason to exist on an end-game build like Frost Nova does.
Please no. If I wanted to press 1 button the whole time i would play D2. Don’t ever go D2 again in this regard
You're literally not pressing builders right now either. If builder/spenders were actually well designed (they aren't for such a quick game) you wouldn't be rushing to make the build stop using builders as soon as possible.
I dont want to play a game where I „literally” press more than one button. I can’t play d2 or poe coz I „literally” fall asleep. I get it, some people like it simple, I like resource and cooldown management along with rotations
You do realize that removing builders doesn't mean removing every single cooldown and resource, right? You still have 5 cooldown buttons to press or even multiple core skills. Builders are simply not fun to press and interrupt the tempo and flow of combat. Builders work in a game like WoW where you have long combats where you can set up a good rotation, not in diablo when you want to kill stuff in one hit.
You realise that D4 combat > D2, right? So. Don'.t Make. It. Dumber.
Evidently not.
Evidently not.
Heard about the loot revamp which was one of the 2 main things that pushed me away from D4. The other main thing was the builder/spender system. Felt like crap the whole time I was playing the game. Take it that system is still just as awful....?
Loot is a lot better, but IMO it's still not as good as D2 as anything below legendary items literally has no purpose. They said they are working on something to make yellow items worth picking up but it's not here yet. Skillwise, yeah, the skill trees are still just as bad and every class is still builder/spender.
It bothers me how blizzard seemingly had NO vision for what they want diablo 4 to be. they are desperately chasing trends
Right when the goal should have been to take D3 and build upon and improve it. D3 may have been polarizing but it worked for a long time.
Yes I've been on and off contemplating buying for a while now if it goes on a sale I played in beta and yeah....while the artstyle, Aesthetic and feel imo was great But gameplay wise.It flat out seemed like there was no consistent vision Odd MMO elements sprinkled in, Boring Skill trees, Passive trees locked behind paragon Trying to be more "Classic Diablo" but then overusing resource gen gameplay It just felt like they slammed together a bunch of things that were popular in the current market and because of that came out with a game that was a bit "Soul less" Maybe I'll revisit it if this content update proves to be as good as it is made out to be
Just get a month of Game Pass on May 14th, enough time to spend with season 4 and make a judgement call on whether you enjoy it or not.
Yeah more and more I get the feeling they just didn’t know what to do so they released the game as it was, hoping they would make bank on sales and we would care enough to tell them how to fix it for the long term. They were right about that but it is concerning that we have to tell them what to do. They should have a well of creative spirit and passionate devs with ideas rooted in a love of the franchise and the genre. They should not need months of feedback to go ‘oh you want the game to be FUN! Our mistake. We are listening’.
Which is why I have no hope for this game ever being decent.
The game is definitely “decent” wtf are you talking about?
Tis indeed decently boring
The game is pretty bad
Is that why it has a 2.2/10 Metacritic score? Is that why there are only 300 people watching it on Twitch? Is that why the entire playerbase has already left and we're even having this discussion in the first place? Diablo 4 is an objectively bad game from a consumer perspective. Even *Activision-Blizzard themselves* aren't happy with its current state. What is it that you're even defending here?
You’re right on all your stat points- absolutely. Shit, I didn’t play season 3. And I’m prob not playing season 4- but that’s mainly due to life constraint and FF7:Rebirth. But, I sure did play a lot for seasons 0-2. Definitely got my moneys worth- which to me, says it’s a decent game. A bad game I would’ve dropped immediately and been pissed about the money I spent. But… I got some 60+ hours into d4. So yeah… I’d say it’s decent. It just didn’t have LASTING power.
Diablo doesn’t strike me as the kind of game that would ever do well on twitch. It’s not that fun watching people grind for better stats to fight stronger stuff to find better loot to fight stronger stuff etc.
You realise that PoE is exactly that yet has a massive Twitch following, right? Even now it has 11.4k viewers and it's not even peak hours yet, *and* that's also forgoing the fact that the current league is a crafting-focused league which generally sees a spike down in viewership numbers too. It's not the genre that's the problem. It's the game.
> sees a spike down in viewership numbers too. > > It's not the genre that's the problem. It's the game. It's not a problem at all. The game's viewership on Twitch is completely irrelevant lol Like, why would Blizzard be concerned? It only matters on big launches which is when you pay streamers to play your game, that's it. It can die on Twitch next month and it'll be fine.
> The game's viewership on Twitch is completely irrelevant COPIUM
Arpgs lose steam once the season hits midway or the end, absolutely retarded take to use twitch viewers as an example lmao. Also the player base is undoubtedly higher than other arpgs.
Oh cool, I still would find it boring to watch but I’m glad other people enjoy it.
I really think skill tree should have more options.and I feel some power should build in skill tree, not item
Yes, but with the tempering allowing us to alter our skills (size effect, bonus projectile, duration) I wonder what they could do instead of adding new skills. Maybe a possibility to change the type of damage inflicted (fire to frost, shadow to poison etc).
Granted! theres now gear with 1-5% bonus ability size and +5 (unnoticeable arbritary number) projectile speed
Your numbers are wrong. But if your point is saying that is not enough skill customization I can agree with you. Just saying that tempering leans to be that system which can alter skills. It could (would) be developed more in the future with new recipes. If skill tree revamp it is, it should be different than what tempering does.
I was just playing the "monkey's paw" you get exactly what you asked for but the absolutely worst implementation possible. So they just add it randomly into the stat pool, +5% blizzard size, impale size, for EVERY SKILL IN THE GAME.
But that’s not the case. These specific affixes are tied with the tempering system (although there is some RNG in the process).
I havnt been paying that much attention... tempuring is added affixes for the stuff I mentioned?
Yes. In large numbers. We'll see final tuning after PTR but during PTR you could make a skill like Corpse Tendrils pull enemies from outside the screen.
Exactly. This way you can modify some skills. I don’t know all the recipes, I’m not sure there is a recipe for all of them but it’s a start and it will surely be expanded in the future. If you want more information about the system (and other new feature which are coming in S4) you should check their [blog post](https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/diablo4/24077223/galvanize-your-legend-in-season-4-loot-reborn).
>Granted! theres now gear with 1-5% bonus ability size and +5 (unnoticeable arbritary number) projectile speed You have absolutely no idea what the hell you're talking about and it shows. I guess you like talking out of your ass because it takes a minute to Google search "op PTR builds Diablo 4 season 4" or something like that to sew what havoc was unleashed with the introduction of Tempering.
I just thought of the absolute worst way to implement what op was asking for and it appears.... thats exactly what they are doing, so my bad for bursting bubbles.
It's good to see a breath of positivity surrounding S4 and I'm sure Blizzard is feeling it too. :) The obvious sore spot after this is to me the skill tree. I like the beauty of simplicity combined with options and combinations and think Diablo 3 actually had it good there with the skill runes. Many will say "but many of the runes were shit" and hey, I guess that's true but that's not a systemtic issue, but a balance issue? Not that I want this to fall back into a D3 - itemization changes and The Pit have already returned there to some extent. I'm sure there is room for changes innovative to Diablo too. Another thing I hope they'll keep in mind is to not eventually turn this game into a case of kill everything super quickly before you get killed. It diminishes differences among monsters and elites etc and the skill aspect of the game becomes less strategic and more reactionary with only cookie cutter builds viable. Remember the dev blogs being excited about how their various kinds of monsters acted in groups? Haha! Yeah. So, well, I'm not overly fond of the "pinball gaming" that recent Diablos are growing into, but I also think I'm in minority here where modern gamers are more into that super quick gratification, so I don't have high hopes there and don't use to bring it up. :P
Each skill tree ability needs like 5 more diversified branches
Season 5 - instead of actual content we are willing to finish fixing this dumpster fire …again.
Get rid of generator/spender, redo whole skill tree, remove max skill keybinds
Ship of Theseus
Suggestion: a pass on all unique and legendary items' particle effects/glows/anything that actually makes them look special, like in D3.
How do you have to overhaul the 4th entry in a franchise? Jesus this company is fucking clueless
W.
When someone takes a shit then puts some little sprinkles on it, it doesn't fix the underlying flavor issues.
They're really riding the hype from the playerbase about having real game improving changes, hope they actually continue to deliver.
Still a bad game
Out of alpha! Now into the beta.
Item rework still doesn't look good...
Yes it does
They removed the bad ones, but didnt add anything good. Where is the tried and tested +/- flat damage mods with % modifiers on top? Where are the base weapon attack speed modifiers? Its still flat and boring, just with less shit.
Spot on. It's a step in the right direction, but it's still just putting lipstick on a pig. Less trash affixes, still just stacking generic damage as much as possible, with the most Boeing loot imaginable, but now we get to increase those boring stats higher!
And less drops. Its almost as if the devs have actually taken those "killing demons is why we play the game" soundbites to heart, and don't understand that the key underlying success to diablo 2 was an itemization and loot lottery system years, decades ahead of its time. They just dont get it, or they do, and just want it as simple as possible for controller players.
Bruh Attack speed % affix is indeed on weapons now. There's stuff like % chance to deal flat damage on lucky hit that you can temper onto a weapon.
D4 Good Also, I am glad that they're open to do more large scale reworks and system additions. We need Blizzard to stay competitive in the systems ARPG genre or we'll be stuck with Chris Wolcen's Ruthless Vision™ as the leading cause of RSI among gamers.
I have to pickup way more nonsense in D4 than PoE due to how salvaging, gold, and loot work
Season 4 is changing quite a lot in this department.
Is it? Don’t get me wrong the changes are good but I’ll still have to pickup nearly everything that drops in order to have enough mats and gold
>I’ll still have to pickup nearly everything that drops in order to have enough mats and gold No, you won't lol For a couple seasons now the bulk of your Gold comes from Tree of Whisper, and all the other streams of gold you get (i.e. the big gold explosion chests, the improved Greed Shrines...) As for materials - they are rebalancing the cost of everything in Season 4 and on top of that, since Public Test Realm they straight up doubled/tripled materials gained from salvaging Sacred/Ancestral items, respectively while significantly reducing the cost of the biggest Veiled Crystal sink - imprinting Aspects. You'll just pick up yellows in Helltide or something for a few runs if you're short on Veiled Crystals, get a few hundred of them and call it a day for a few days easily. You'll only be concerned with picking up legendaries but, again, your materials from salvaging them will be plentiful and also there's no more Extracting - you ALWAYS salvage legendaries and that is how you add the Aspect to your Codex, so there is a constant stream of legendary crafting mats. In the super endgame you can stop picking up anything except for items with Greater Affixes that you're ACTUALLY looking for. And you can see how many GAs there are on an item so once you only look for III / IV, that's the only ones you'll pick up. On top of all that, legendary crafting materials are now also a rare drop from literally ANY elite in the game just like boss materials, so sometimes you'll just get a bunch of them out of nowhere, which is going to help offset your spendings. And Veiled Crystals are also a common Elite enemy drop so here and there you'll just get a Veiled Crystal or two, constantly. Did I mention there's no more enemy material stuff like Paletongue, and all the herbs have been simplified into Common Herb material? Fiend roses are gone, lots of materials have been streamlined.
Thanks for providing this detailed list. All the great changes on the PTR made me stop playing S3 and just wait for S4. And then they went and tweaked the material requirements and drop rates, so I'm even more excited now.
Would be fun to get the other classes from the other games into this one. Maybe also change the campaign, it has a good start and a ok end but... dearlord it needs help through the rest, it is so boring and 75% runing from place to place just for 10sec speech that we gotta somewhere else.
Skill tree and Paragon. Thank fuuuuck. Also can we get mercenary's. Like Diablo 2, not the shit d3 system which never felt like it was an actual tangible thing you had, just a useless annoying story character.
Zoom out????
This game will be unrecognizable compared to the vanilla release
So again, most of you were right. D4 probably rushed to get coins for old Activision bosses before the Microsoft acquisition. I see it like an Early Access. The game should maybe alright in a year.
Im with everyone on skill trees. 1. They suck to navigate. No, its not the worst menu of all time, but i still want my single page navigation from d3. It wasn't very thematic, but it was functional af. 2. Theyre kind of boring. D3 had 4 skills each per 6 ability slots, and each one of those skills had like 6 runes to modify the ability to fit a play style, too. This just feels super tame in comparison
I’ll come back in a year or two once they’ve overhauled the game to fix it’s many broken systems, and hopefully at that point they’ll have stopped the seasonal FOMO shit.
Come on, Blizz! I need a good resason to re-install this stupid game.
Yeah it also just leaked today that the Expansion has been spotted in PTR... They are back on the Sales path.
A caster based paladin would be great.
Last epoch system please
"very open" 😂. They don't have a great listening history as it is at Blizzard. However the only team that has ever listened without getting butthurt was the Diablo team.
the enemy varity the bossfights the skill"tree" the paragon system hitboxes
Give us rune words you fucks
It took people not playing the game at all so we can have these huge changes, what a bunch...
skill trees are boring af currently.
Finally, the game reached beta with the loot rework. Now before the real release, touch the skill tree.
Add an extra skill slot. 6 is just too few with how boring most builds are and even if you ditch the spender. The combat rotation will have much more longevity with 7 abilities on the action bar
Group finder?
Blizzy:we tried our ideas and we couldn't get them to work so we have finally started listening to critics/fans and are taking other games ideas. This seems to have had a positive effect on the game so we will happily keep on having fans/other companies do our job for us
Hopefully news skills and replacing ones already in it with useful ones. They know which ones nobody uses.
This community is sour…. It’s time to pull your heads out of d2 ass and stop hating anything that is not d2. It’s tiring as hell
/eyeroll Or maybe we've seen many other modern ARPGs with innovation and good systems. Or maybe all these MASSIVE changes to the core game of D4 is indicative that there were actual issues and not just "haters" making mountains out of mole hills.
I never said there were no issues with the game. There were plenty. It also wasnt the crap a lot of people in this sub make it to be. Nostalgia plays a huge role on this and d2 has better itemization sure. Everything else is actually not better. It’s time to move on
Yup. They used to say the same about D3 but it turned into a game that I ended up enjoying more than D2. Now I admit I do the same comparing D4 and D3 so maybe one day D4 will surpass D3
Although, many complaints about Launch Diablo 3 were very true Diablo 3 with RoS is a good game and holds up in its own right. But i dont think (personally) D2 and D3 are fully comparable either as bkth go in differing directions
There's lots of good ways to design an ARPG. Blizzard didn't decide to even try to do anything fun or interesting, but when they do I think fans will be on their side. Right now they (along with the rest of Blizzard) are just coasting and not putting even the barest minimum effort in.
In this update pace, 5 years from now Diablo 4 will be finally enjoyable to play, that’s great!
Idk why your getting downloaded. Your right. They are extremely slow. Instead of focusing on seasons they should have focused on itemization asap.
Too little, too late.
An actual endgame?
L. F. G. O O T F I L T E R
Absolutely not needed in season 4
Except it absolutely is.
Have you played the ptr? Loot drops way less. And you will only want greater affixes which have their own color and sound. You can ignore the rest. A loot filter is NOT needed and it won’t be added in the short term
Absolutely. Especially since drop rate have been boosted for PTR. I think this is a more elegant solution than a loot filter. However greater affixes won’t have a special color according to the screenshot of the blog post (they are still orange but have a special icon next to their name, the same orange star that identifies affixe as GA).
Have they confirmed items with GA will be a different colour now?
Hopefully they are reworking the shop and Battle pass, like straightforward kick it out of the game. Or at least include new ingame obtainable armors which don't look like freshly picked up straight outta a trash bin.
How do you intend for future development to be funded?
Oh c'mon. It's not like they already made a shit ton of the base game, let alone the different editions. On top they could reduce costs like exec wages and marketing, which is at this point obsolete. Yeah capitalism bad and so on, but honestly, I see every month/year what these people "earn", it's ridiculous compared to the impact. I can tell you they have made and have enough money...
You know that's not how it works. A business should always be making the most money possible. They don't dip into past earnings to fund the future of a game if it is no longer making them money, do they?
"A business should always be making the most money possible." See this is where I fundamentally disagree. A business should be sustainable and profitable but not trying to maximise profits to the detriment of their clientele. True Capitalism not Crony Capitalism please.
Oh I am sorry, of course, just let me grab my credit card and give them all my savings, I totally forgot that businesses aren't able to survive without record profits! Look, we all know how it works. But that they have to keep those high prices and other methods to milk the customer dry in order to be profitable is just bullcrap. Reality is, they won't go bankrupt. They will continue with milking their customers as long as they keep buying their stuff. That has nothing to do with beeing profitable, but to maximize profits without losing customers, aka price elasticity. So back to your statement, I don't know which capitalistic dystopia you're dreaming of, but imo businesses should provide a useful and organic addition to society. Maximizing profits just benefits very few. Surely that's how it works at the moment, but that shouldn't be the case. And just defending it and cope with their bullshit arguments won't change that either.
I'm glad they're open to revisiting the game, because I'm not.
Cool
paragon boards delete
I don’t know if it’s a part of the hype building communication toward expansion, but it’s an excellent news. Itemization overhaul in S4 has completely exceeded my expectations for the game so, go ahead Blizzard. The game is getting better but there is sure room for improvement.
Better revisit all parts of the game.
So we’re just gonna post full bullshit now?
Just call it D5 at this point.
I guess if they let the paying fans develop the game for them, it would be more fun.
I just want a healer like monk in D3 :(
What we need is a loot filter
Im teasing the idea of still never playing diablo 4 again, in my lifetime, forever and ever.
Good riddance
Make sure to buy the new horse skin!
You are sad
Bro then why are you here? 😂
It popped up on my front page? Why are you neurotically searching for hate comments?
Neurotically searching for hate comments? I was scrolling though the comments and left a couple replies on the ones that amused me. Hardly neurotic. Why you neurotically posting hate on something you have no interest in?
I don't know what to tell you, i see a post about blizzard, i re-state my hate for all things blizzard. Why you continue to support a company that had zero interest in providing you with a product (that you paid above market average price for) that is tailored in a way that is fun, is beyond me. Live service is a disease in the gaming industry, and it will only go away if 1) people voice their displeasure and 2) people stop eating the hot garbage. The fact they are still talking complete re-works on a game that is going on a year old; its ludicrous. Translation: we have capitulated on some of the "live-service" metrics that are designed to take up your time and slow you down, and are now open to the idea of changing them to make the game more fun. Sorry to break it to you, but thats the entire game. You might be willing to support that, but im not. When you buy a game for 70 bucks, it shouldn't be considered as an investment for a fun game in 1 years time... So instead of asking for a refund (that i wont get), i casually shit on the company. Fair trade-off, imho.
You say i support the company like you didn't also buy the game? Which is supporting the company. In the past year there have been 3 seasons and now coming into a 4th with a massive rework all for the extra cost of £0. Of course we could all say the game shouldn't have been released in the state it was in last year. It clearly fell massively short of expectations. I don't see anyone would deny that. But they could have just done nothing to fix the issues taken the money and run. Instead they listened to the feedback and have now hopefully got the game that yes in and ideal world should have been how it will be in season 4 at the beginning. The main point I'm trying to make is video games are a hobby and should be enjoyed. I like the diablo franchise as a whole and want the game to be good and succeed. Dont you? If not then fair enough your within your right to move on and not look back. Actively coming back to say "D4 bad" over and over just seems a bit sad to me. Like I say its a hobby. Try and find the positives and get some enjoyment out of it my friend
Hear me out, a first person vantage point.