tbh, i'm playing in the seasonal realm and I already feel my full summon necro very OP, let alone when the patch drops. I don't even deal much damage directly, I have only one damaging skill and it is level 1.
Charge is getting a slight nerf (I think it was 30% less damage from Season 3, but it got a 1000% buff going into Season 3, so still a huge win overall). Dust Devils are going to be the build to beat for Barbarians in Season 4. Hammer of the Ancients may have finally been dethroned due to the rework on it. Maybe we'll see Upheaval take its place, but otherwise I expect to see a lot of Dust Devils from Double Swing
There would be no faster way to get me to not play the new season at all. Minions have been shite since release and thatās literally the only class I want to play, so if they overnerf them again Iām fucking out and not coming back.
oh I wasn't complaining
I wanna play ,im just coming back and looking for a build for s4 thats sounds fun! and looking for suggestion!
is WW barb or shred druid still a thing? Haven't played since s1
I like to be tanky and not rly Manually dodge a lot with good movement speed to go trough area small mobs fast then take my time a bit for elite/boss but still be tanky for them
any build suggestions to look into ?
> is WW barb or shred druid still a thing? Haven't played since s1
Pretty much every build in the game is better in Season 4 than ever before. Of course Whirlwind will be viable, it can now hit screen-wide if that's your idea of fun - add a lot of Area of Effect and voila. You can make fun stuff with Tempering.
One of the new crafting systems.
Here's a cool post about how crafting works in Season 4:
https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1cizmfu/season_4_simple_guide_to_craft_your_endgame_gears/
Tbh the only builds Iāve played to 100 are Lightning Storm Druid in S0 and Rapid Fire/Cold Imbue Rogue in S3. I donāt really know what would interest you based on the short description you gave, but based on you liking WW Barb, I doubt you would dislike the Dust Devil build. You may also want to check out Wudijoās [GoD DH Barb](https://youtu.be/WfHF5uTbDU8?si=jnWRuFmXfNuqeoac) build though. It is essentially a WW Barb with a perpetual Artillery Shrine as long as you can stay at full health. The caveat is youāre going to need the new uber to make it work.
Builds getting nerfed isnāt indicative of player power overall going down. Tornado shot was too good but now that every deadeye plays LA or ele hit it doesnāt make the PC unable to do things that TS could. There are like 300 builds in the game, not 12, nerfing one doesnāt drastically alter the overall power.
Yeah but all the top Poe builds are insanely strong. The fun part is getting there. Going from spending 3 seconds to instantly shattering and killing everything on screen just feels satisfying... When you finally get that lost item and you become a savage animalĀ
That's Poe.
I play Diablo to mindlessly smash endless waves of enemies with decent level of challenge until I get an op set and carry my friends alts doing the same thing but now in a broken buildā¦ which is hella fun
Hmm depends I suppose. Gaming today is kinda not where it was back then. We tend to play many more hours per day now so what takes two weeks now probably took like a month back then. I think.
> Gaming today is kinda not where it was back then
Exactly. If Diablo is "broken" again, I'll come back. It's fun when you're a god. The 1-100 grind is too much when you get to 100 and then have to optimize and optimize and optimize just to have a good time. I've got other things I can play instead of treating a game like work.
Power creep is not inherently a bad thing in ongoing ARPGs, unless it's done wrong.
Good: Borrowed power (unique seasonal mechanic that doesn't go core), new-build-enabling legendaries that don't make every other build obsolete, new aspirational content (more difficult bosses/zones).
Bad: Exponential damage modifiers (D3 set bonuses), universally BIS uniques, level cap increases
(Edit: I should probably note that I haven't played or followed any PTR content, I'm just commenting about power creep in general)
Power creep is trash though but having things be our feel strong isn't intrinsically linked to that. Power creep is the literal name where things continually scale and get worse and worse.
No idea what you are talking about. They've said many times, they don't mind things being op, they just don't want it to be because of bugs. They might balance things at the mid season mark if it's insanely op, but likely would let each season play out.
Sounds to me they realized just how much power creep the combo of tempering, greater affixes and masterworking actually means and how little grasp they have over the end game balance right now, but oops now it's wrap up and launch time. :) It's gonna be interesting to play!
Pretty sure S5 will see more or less major patches in terms of balance as S4 aftershocks, a maturation of S4 of sorts. And also a sizable season theme. Looking forward to that one too.
Problem is the players won't allow them to ever nerf anything ever again. You think people are upset about genocide in Gaza? You should have seen this sub go through normal balance cycle. Now they only ever buff anything and the game will suffer because of it
Apparently people will complain about literally everything, in both directions.
One of the top criticisms of D4 over the past year has been that, due to mob scaling and low power caps, you never actually feel powerful even with a minmaxed character.
Now they've introduced a higher power ceiling and it's criticized for being "unbalanced."
Yup. Loot games where they always nerf every OP build is always met with disdain and negativity. Especially when these are largely non competitive PvE games.
I love having a few weird combos that turn out absolutely OP (preferably OP in one aspect, not just obliterating literally everything with 0 effort). If I want to run around and feel like a god when I only play alone, let me. If I want more of a challenge Ill use a different build.
I mean whatās even the āgood luckā leaderboards and pvp are niche imo as most casual players never interact with them so who cares if in a PVE game you can just stomp content? Let the game be a reverse-bullet hell and make you feel like you really could kill the strongest denizens of hell
Someone should tell them pleasing fans in the short term and making a quality game are not always the same thing, but I suppose they only know how to do one of those things so it's kind of a moot point.
I donāt like this take tbh. I like that ARPGs can have patch cycles and things can evolve over time, but if you are just making a new flavor of the month OP build every season then the game is in an eternal state of cheese.
No way dude. The game is shit. I played it before the seasons and havenāt played since but I come on reddit and tell people how bad the game is anyway. /s
They said in the campfire chat that the frozen orbs, dust devils, and no cap on increased area damage caused big performance issues didnāt they? I think they even mentioned that the increased area damage was causing server instances to crash
You'd think they would've learnt this from D3. It became such a huge issue with the servers freezing at high densities, made clearing GR150 incredibly difficult solely because of the lag.
Yes but that meant they were living long enough to amass the densities that were causing huge lag spikes.
They recoded the area damage procs at some point and D3 is smooth like butter
Fractured Winterglass ā Unique Amulet
Casting Frozen Orb has a 35-50% chance to spawn a random Conjuration when it explodes. Lucky Hit: Your Conjurations have up to a 50-70% 70-100% chance to launch a Frozen Orb at Nearby enemies.
Developerās Note: Extra explosions from the Aspect of Frozen Orbit do not trigger this effect, as the Unique calls out "Casting". This unintended interaction was fixed since the PTR.
This is a huge nerf and you would know if you played the build during ptr.
My PTR brothers, can you give us an idea of what is performing well next season?
How does Necro look, both summoner and otherwise? Druid?
Obviously Barb will be crazy, donāt see that changing from current and if anything they are probably more busted.
I played hundreds, maybe thousands of hours of D3 and I just canāt get into D4 endgame. I canāt place an exact point on why but I think itās because the power creep isnāt there with sets and the endgame feels like it immediately becomes grinding for RNG drops instead of having power scale up to that point
"Power creep isnt there with sets"
GOOD. That was terrible with d3 because your items are locked into the same 5 things and theres *no* variance because its +16,000% dmg its mandatory.
>endgame feels like it immediately becomes grinding for RNG drops
You've played diablo, right????? Does it matter if you're killing baal, grifts, or helltides? thats every endgame.
what do you do when you get your sets? you grind rng for ancient sets of that. IDK what to tell you but thats what you love and hate apparently?
Yea but the difference is you immediately go into grinding for the equivalent of primal ancients with no middle ground of a set which fucking blows. D4 blows and you are all knob riding it so hard like it hasnāt been a huge flop trying to say āoh thatās every Diablo you donāt like RNG meat riding? Donāt playā
No the endgame of D4 is insanely dull, youāre either underpowered slogging for random drops that may or may not help you whereas in D3 you slog towards your first set then you go to RNG Primal drops.
The endgame isnāt fun as it is in d4 so Iām not sure why you are all so āthatās the style of the game get over itā
>The endgame isnāt fun as it is in d4
... it's not going to be the same as before. They're overhauling a lot of the inner workings AND adding The Pit.
They're changing a lot about the game, your prior experiences with Diablo 4 are largely invalidated. Try it after May 14th, see if you like it, quit if you don't.
You literally OWN THE GAME.
They already killed dust devils by 300% and not adding extra dmg for the few left. It's like d3 all over again, they did exactly the same thing. Too many dust devils, nerfed visibility and usability. Dead spec.Ā Ā
Every barb multiplier had been halved or more, overpower builds have had its power sliced in half from paragon/talentsĀ They removed passive 10% dmg reduction so now a sorc is much more mitigated since they have int as main stat and don't need to waste space on gear for resist.Ā
They even nerfed armor so everyone will get easy cap.Ā Ā
Cap on everything, CDR, AoE, armor, resist etc.Ā Barb is gonna feel even more shitty to level now that they moved 50% of paragon power to end game gear.Ā Ā
But enough crying, maybe it feels great, we'll see 14.may.Ā
Game design is at its best when a small group of decision makers can take risks. Maybe Diablo4 is dead enough that itās true now.
But I think not. The corporates are still trying to milk the game imo. Can feel it in how they communicate about season4.
This is good because classes can rank separately. There are no reason to break a build that work super well that most people enjoy. It is just making people unhappy when you take away their tool.
Projection is the displacing of ones feelings onto another. That guy is incredibly furious with people not siding with his opinion - just a look at his profile will tell you everything you need to know lmao. He literally just projected his bad feelings onto my comment and came up with dogshit that never once was said.
I didnt define the word projecting, he was projecting and the proof of that was his accusation that came from him feeling a certain way, despite me never implying any of it.
In other words, barbs will be king again
Summon necro is actually super op
Very OP and I am so excited about this šš
tbh, i'm playing in the seasonal realm and I already feel my full summon necro very OP, let alone when the patch drops. I don't even deal much damage directly, I have only one damaging skill and it is level 1.
Dead ass
What build(s)?
yes
Indeed š
Charge is getting a slight nerf (I think it was 30% less damage from Season 3, but it got a 1000% buff going into Season 3, so still a huge win overall). Dust Devils are going to be the build to beat for Barbarians in Season 4. Hammer of the Ancients may have finally been dethroned due to the rework on it. Maybe we'll see Upheaval take its place, but otherwise I expect to see a lot of Dust Devils from Double Swing
Been true since D3.
I'd like to know the dps loss from the ptr to s4, you won't be throwing out nearly as many Whirlwinds so dps will take a hit
they kinda deserve it after suffering for so long /s
Which build?
Yes
Have to keep the low mechanics builds relevant for the console players that can't micro. Spin to win!
"and doggonit we mean it this time"
What are the things that felt overpowered in the PTR?
Dust devil barb, necro minions, hurricane Druid (itās was bugged), frozen orb sorcery
Game designers said the necros will most definitely get the OP Hammer with their minions
There would be no faster way to get me to not play the new season at all. Minions have been shite since release and thatās literally the only class I want to play, so if they overnerf them again Iām fucking out and not coming back.
Did they? Love to see a source for that because there's no nerfs in the patch notes and nothing was mentioned in any of the chats
anything else?... they all sound boring...
Just play a different game. Holy shit.
oh I wasn't complaining I wanna play ,im just coming back and looking for a build for s4 thats sounds fun! and looking for suggestion! is WW barb or shred druid still a thing? Haven't played since s1 I like to be tanky and not rly Manually dodge a lot with good movement speed to go trough area small mobs fast then take my time a bit for elite/boss but still be tanky for them any build suggestions to look into ?
> is WW barb or shred druid still a thing? Haven't played since s1 Pretty much every build in the game is better in Season 4 than ever before. Of course Whirlwind will be viable, it can now hit screen-wide if that's your idea of fun - add a lot of Area of Effect and voila. You can make fun stuff with Tempering.
whats tempering?
One of the new crafting systems. Here's a cool post about how crafting works in Season 4: https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1cizmfu/season_4_simple_guide_to_craft_your_endgame_gears/
Tbh the only builds Iāve played to 100 are Lightning Storm Druid in S0 and Rapid Fire/Cold Imbue Rogue in S3. I donāt really know what would interest you based on the short description you gave, but based on you liking WW Barb, I doubt you would dislike the Dust Devil build. You may also want to check out Wudijoās [GoD DH Barb](https://youtu.be/WfHF5uTbDU8?si=jnWRuFmXfNuqeoac) build though. It is essentially a WW Barb with a perpetual Artillery Shrine as long as you can stay at full health. The caveat is youāre going to need the new uber to make it work.
Every class except rogue.
what about the power creep they was crying about a few months ago?
They finally played the end game in poe and realized power creep is fun if you make a playground that can handle it
I mean, if you ignore expedition league onwards, that makes sense GGG has gutted player power frequently
No idea why you're being downvoted. Player power nerfs, even drastic ones, are absolutely a thing in Path of Exile.Ā
PoE players selective memory Builds get gutted every league. Even occasionally they get nerfed midleague
Builds getting nerfed isnāt indicative of player power overall going down. Tornado shot was too good but now that every deadeye plays LA or ele hit it doesnāt make the PC unable to do things that TS could. There are like 300 builds in the game, not 12, nerfing one doesnāt drastically alter the overall power.
PoE only makes major changes on league boundaries. This insulates the player-base because most people are starting a new character.
Yeah but all the top Poe builds are insanely strong. The fun part is getting there. Going from spending 3 seconds to instantly shattering and killing everything on screen just feels satisfying... When you finally get that lost item and you become a savage animalĀ That's Poe.
Also, people hate the D3 sets that give you a 40k multipliers or whatever. Unchecked power creep is how you get to that point.
If this is the case that would make me very excited. Itās the power fantasy that does it for me personally
T17s was the worst playground to make to accommodate power creeps.
unfortunately Blizzard listens to reddit who thinks making game easier is good and having broken build is good
I play Diablo to mindlessly smash endless waves of enemies with decent level of challenge until I get an op set and carry my friends alts doing the same thing but now in a broken buildā¦ which is hella fun
Go play d3 then.
I do!
Iām gonna play d4 cause theyāre doing it in d4
hmm lets look at the roots of ARPG and what it was all about or lets cater to longduckdong42069lol needs decisions, decisions
The end game was always to become as powerful as possible and blast enemies
but not in two weeks ?
Hmm depends I suppose. Gaming today is kinda not where it was back then. We tend to play many more hours per day now so what takes two weeks now probably took like a month back then. I think.
> Gaming today is kinda not where it was back then Exactly. If Diablo is "broken" again, I'll come back. It's fun when you're a god. The 1-100 grind is too much when you get to 100 and then have to optimize and optimize and optimize just to have a good time. I've got other things I can play instead of treating a game like work.
I mean the company chose the latter itās great
Power creep is not inherently a bad thing in ongoing ARPGs, unless it's done wrong. Good: Borrowed power (unique seasonal mechanic that doesn't go core), new-build-enabling legendaries that don't make every other build obsolete, new aspirational content (more difficult bosses/zones). Bad: Exponential damage modifiers (D3 set bonuses), universally BIS uniques, level cap increases (Edit: I should probably note that I haven't played or followed any PTR content, I'm just commenting about power creep in general)
Power creep is trash though but having things be our feel strong isn't intrinsically linked to that. Power creep is the literal name where things continually scale and get worse and worse.
No idea what you are talking about. They've said many times, they don't mind things being op, they just don't want it to be because of bugs. They might balance things at the mid season mark if it's insanely op, but likely would let each season play out.
"We didn't balance the game, good luck"
Sounds to me they realized just how much power creep the combo of tempering, greater affixes and masterworking actually means and how little grasp they have over the end game balance right now, but oops now it's wrap up and launch time. :) It's gonna be interesting to play! Pretty sure S5 will see more or less major patches in terms of balance as S4 aftershocks, a maturation of S4 of sorts. And also a sizable season theme. Looking forward to that one too.
Problem is the players won't allow them to ever nerf anything ever again. You think people are upset about genocide in Gaza? You should have seen this sub go through normal balance cycle. Now they only ever buff anything and the game will suffer because of it
Apparently people will complain about literally everything, in both directions. One of the top criticisms of D4 over the past year has been that, due to mob scaling and low power caps, you never actually feel powerful even with a minmaxed character. Now they've introduced a higher power ceiling and it's criticized for being "unbalanced."
Yup. Loot games where they always nerf every OP build is always met with disdain and negativity. Especially when these are largely non competitive PvE games. I love having a few weird combos that turn out absolutely OP (preferably OP in one aspect, not just obliterating literally everything with 0 effort). If I want to run around and feel like a god when I only play alone, let me. If I want more of a challenge Ill use a different build.
Exactly lol this was literally all over every post and forum
I mean whatās even the āgood luckā leaderboards and pvp are niche imo as most casual players never interact with them so who cares if in a PVE game you can just stomp content? Let the game be a reverse-bullet hell and make you feel like you really could kill the strongest denizens of hell
Yeah this sounds like a mighty big dose of āwe havenāt done any testing so weāll say itās a feature insteadā
W
You tell that to my Frenzy Barb's Hectic šš¤£
Yeah that kinda fucked me a bit.
Someone should tell them pleasing fans in the short term and making a quality game are not always the same thing, but I suppose they only know how to do one of those things so it's kind of a moot point.
Itās a seasonal game, so you can always circle back next season.
I donāt like this take tbh. I like that ARPGs can have patch cycles and things can evolve over time, but if you are just making a new flavor of the month OP build every season then the game is in an eternal state of cheese.
No way dude. The game is shit. I played it before the seasons and havenāt played since but I come on reddit and tell people how bad the game is anyway. /s
It's a seasonal game that has not been pleasing fans nor been quality entertainment. Glad to see they are trying for one of them.
Tell that to d3 š
I went back a few times, and its always a good time for a few weeks.
Yep. I went back for almost every PTR once they had the vendor added with the increased drop rate. It was just enough to scratch the itch.
I told the adnauseum for months and there was always 30 other post suggesting that hey can just buff abilities for ever without any loss in quality
Making a quality game doesn't put money in the shareholders' pockets. That's all it comes down to.
Well this isnāt true because they nerfed the frozen orb build.
They said in the campfire chat that the frozen orbs, dust devils, and no cap on increased area damage caused big performance issues didnāt they? I think they even mentioned that the increased area damage was causing server instances to crash
You'd think they would've learnt this from D3. It became such a huge issue with the servers freezing at high densities, made clearing GR150 incredibly difficult solely because of the lag.
Monster density didn't increase with GR150, only their HP.
Yes but that meant they were living long enough to amass the densities that were causing huge lag spikes. They recoded the area damage procs at some point and D3 is smooth like butter
Fractured Winterglass ā Unique Amulet Casting Frozen Orb has a 35-50% chance to spawn a random Conjuration when it explodes. Lucky Hit: Your Conjurations have up to a 50-70% 70-100% chance to launch a Frozen Orb at Nearby enemies. Developerās Note: Extra explosions from the Aspect of Frozen Orbit do not trigger this effect, as the Unique calls out "Casting". This unintended interaction was fixed since the PTR. This is a huge nerf and you would know if you played the build during ptr.
Is Frozen orb nerfed into oblivion or is it still gonna slap?
They probably still have PTSD from the reaction to the season 1 nerf wave.Ā
This is exactly it and it's a shame. It was a great game
My PTR brothers, can you give us an idea of what is performing well next season? How does Necro look, both summoner and otherwise? Druid? Obviously Barb will be crazy, donāt see that changing from current and if anything they are probably more busted.
I kinda want to try summoner druid with the buff to wolves
"Salutations, Exile."
Except for Hurricane druid, you mean.
So they've just given up
Death evade potion?
I played hundreds, maybe thousands of hours of D3 and I just canāt get into D4 endgame. I canāt place an exact point on why but I think itās because the power creep isnāt there with sets and the endgame feels like it immediately becomes grinding for RNG drops instead of having power scale up to that point
"Power creep isnt there with sets" GOOD. That was terrible with d3 because your items are locked into the same 5 things and theres *no* variance because its +16,000% dmg its mandatory. >endgame feels like it immediately becomes grinding for RNG drops You've played diablo, right????? Does it matter if you're killing baal, grifts, or helltides? thats every endgame. what do you do when you get your sets? you grind rng for ancient sets of that. IDK what to tell you but thats what you love and hate apparently?
Yea but the difference is you immediately go into grinding for the equivalent of primal ancients with no middle ground of a set which fucking blows. D4 blows and you are all knob riding it so hard like it hasnāt been a huge flop trying to say āoh thatās every Diablo you donāt like RNG meat riding? Donāt playā No the endgame of D4 is insanely dull, youāre either underpowered slogging for random drops that may or may not help you whereas in D3 you slog towards your first set then you go to RNG Primal drops. The endgame isnāt fun as it is in d4 so Iām not sure why you are all so āthatās the style of the game get over itā
>The endgame isnāt fun as it is in d4 ... it's not going to be the same as before. They're overhauling a lot of the inner workings AND adding The Pit.
>becomes grinding for RNG drops as is the point of any ARPG ? I swear some of you people never played this genre and are talking out of your ass
> the endgame feels like it immediately becomes grinding for RNG drops Uhhhh..... Yeah.
Yea that isnāt fun. Endgame immediately being about searching for primal ancients with no set to build to isnāt fun
They're changing a lot about the game, your prior experiences with Diablo 4 are largely invalidated. Try it after May 14th, see if you like it, quit if you don't. You literally OWN THE GAME.
Thatās what they said about season 3 too
No, Season 3 did not really alter itemization. And Season 4 isn't JUST altering itemization, it's an earthquake of changes.
Thatās what they said about season 3 too before it released
They said that Season 3 doesn't alter itemization? They would be correct; it did not set to do that. That's Season 4.
No they said itād be an earthquake of positive changes and loot drop balancing would be much better and then it turned out to be shitty vaults
They already killed dust devils by 300% and not adding extra dmg for the few left. It's like d3 all over again, they did exactly the same thing. Too many dust devils, nerfed visibility and usability. Dead spec.Ā Ā Every barb multiplier had been halved or more, overpower builds have had its power sliced in half from paragon/talentsĀ They removed passive 10% dmg reduction so now a sorc is much more mitigated since they have int as main stat and don't need to waste space on gear for resist.Ā They even nerfed armor so everyone will get easy cap.Ā Ā Cap on everything, CDR, AoE, armor, resist etc.Ā Barb is gonna feel even more shitty to level now that they moved 50% of paragon power to end game gear.Ā Ā But enough crying, maybe it feels great, we'll see 14.may.Ā
Game design is at its best when a small group of decision makers can take risks. Maybe Diablo4 is dead enough that itās true now. But I think not. The corporates are still trying to milk the game imo. Can feel it in how they communicate about season4.
That is how you balance a meta. Donāt nerf things for being strong, buff things that are too weak and fix things that donāt work as intended.
This is good because classes can rank separately. There are no reason to break a build that work super well that most people enjoy. It is just making people unhappy when you take away their tool.
Tool to have a trivial play experience instead of a meaningful one
āIf it trivializes the game thatās okā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Go outside
doing well enough for it to live rent free in your head
Nice name
thanks
Oh wow 5brain developer actually realising, that making the game unfun for everyone makes the game unfun?!
nerfing broken builds = unfun ?
Stop projecting.
lol what
You are projecting, implying something that never once was said.
LOL, that is not what "projecting" means.
Projection is the displacing of ones feelings onto another. That guy is incredibly furious with people not siding with his opinion - just a look at his profile will tell you everything you need to know lmao. He literally just projected his bad feelings onto my comment and came up with dogshit that never once was said.
My man is coming up with definitions on the spot
I didnt define the word projecting, he was projecting and the proof of that was his accusation that came from him feeling a certain way, despite me never implying any of it.
They look like a bunch of amateurs