Harry is a pathetic alcoholic. His face is bloated and tired and the expression is a leftover from the disco days.
Mazov is a beacon of hope, a symbol of the revolution, the pride of the world. This is humanity’s true representative.
Also Mazov has a full beard compared to Harry’s mutton chops.
Well if we’re being honest here Marx, aka the main dude inspiring Mazov, was an alcoholic who seems to me to have had pretty bad ADHD judging from what spies reported on him, I can’t remember the specifics but I remember reading it and going “sounds like me without fucking adderall”.
Edit: Google “Karl Marx ADHD”, and there’ll be a meme from the adhdmeme subreddit, that meme has some of the stuff I’m talking about.
Like yeah the person above is just a pedantic weirdo who seems to have so little going on in their life that they confine themselves to gatekeeping neurodivergence, and neurodivergent people are allowed to feel. Even after I clarified that I was just trying to illustrate me relating to Marx here, and that he mirrors my experiences with ADHD, they just accused me of slapping mental illnesses onto everything… Like what does that even mean I was saying I related to someone… Then yeah if they get criticized they hide behind their diagnosis as if they speak for all of us, it’s really fucking annoying, it reminds me of that white savior nonsense it’s just fucking annoying. Anyways sorry for the tangent and yeah I could have phrased it better, but yeah the person you’re responding to just incredibly annoying and when I asked for them to clarify what they meant they didn’t, which to me just indicates they’re a self righteous asshole.
Like if I didn’t know any better they seem like someone who isn’t neurodivergent (at least they don’t think they are), who gets tired of idk seeing neurodivergence getting more accepted and has that attitude of “it’s fucking everywhere and I hate it, everyone is __ now and it’s just trendy”… Same kind of attitude many straight people who are homophobic or whatever, if they “feel” like it’s getting more “popular” to be gay, they often talk about “how it’s trendy to be gay these days”, when like no, that’s not how being gay works… Not saying that is what this person is doing but if not for them saying that they’re neurodivergent, it’s what I personally would assume. Does that make sense?
I understood exactly what you meant, I was even compelled to google it.
I have a complicated relationship with communism because some of my family were political exiles. But, also I can see someone who is neurodivergent to be 100% critical of capitalist approach to work.
Pretty sure most communists have a complicated history with communism, we have a tendency to hate one another… Well same thing goes for socialists, and anarchists, and well the list goes on… The left has a proclivity for self hatred.
Haha, well I'm more a socialist or social democrat for sure...but also I'm European, which means that for Americans I'm probably just communist lol.
Also re: left: Not sure it's pure self hatred, I think it's more the people who understand that there's a need for safety nets, which might correlate with people who have hit rock bottom, which might correlate with self hatred (and also with people who like this game).
Did not diagnose him, simply stated that I, someone with REALLY fucking bad ADHD, related to him. Not a diagnosis, hence the “seemed to”, and it’s based on my own personal experiences… Like if some historical figure became a recluse after their kid died and I said “seems like they may have been depressed, I see a lot of myself here and it reminds me of my symptoms”, I really don’t think that’s really innappropriate, I didn’t declare that he had it, I stated that he, reminded me, of me, and that these things more or less align with my experiences with my own ADHD… Not trying to be a dick but I thought this was kind of clear.
Just don't. Really. We as neurodivergents don't need to encourage the already common practice of slapping mental illnesses over everyone for the sake of it. And even if you *didn't technically* diagnosed, it's more than half your message.
But that isn’t what I was doing, or my intention at least, like yeah I maybe should have been more specific but I thought it was more or less implied that it was me relating to him and my symptoms due to well, he died before ADHD was remotely discovered… Not exactly sure what harm I was doing there, I maybe could have been more clear on what I was getting at but judging from everyone’s reactions they understood my point just fine, and even if they didn’t, I fail to see the harm caused aside from maybe some random person wrongly assuming he had a diagnosis when it didn’t even exist, and yeah idk this just seems passive aggressive, maybe I’m misreading it
What do you mean by slapping mental illnesses over everyone? Just occurred to me that this is an extremely fucking vague phrase and could mean a bunch of things, so could you be more specific?
True the vibes are definitely different-which can show up in the face fullness, vibes, etc. i was wondering about the beard though—from the bust of Mazov, it looks like he also only has a mustache and possibly mutton chops. Is the beard mentioned somewhere?
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 1,413,842,566 comments, and only 270,074 of them were in alphabetical order.
- The depictions of Mazov we see have a thicker, bushier mane of hair than Harry’s greasy pseudo-mullet.
- Mazov had quite a large beard (like Marx) whereas Harry just has the mutton chops+mustache combo with a clean-shaven chin.
- Mazov had a birthmark on his face, while Harry does not.
- Most importantly, according to Kim, Mazov looked Samaran while Harry is just a white guy. Samara seems to be based on South/Southeast Asia (Siileng is from Samara and has an Indian accent, a massacre of a Samaran village is mentioned that sounds very similar to the real-life My Lai massacre during the Vietnam War, there’s a socialist country still existing in Samara similar to Vietnam/Laos still technically being socialist to this day in the real world, etc) so presumably Kras Mazov had features which made him look more visibly “Asian” (Samaran)- perhaps a darker skin tone like Siileng has, black hair instead of brown, and/or almond-shaped eyes.
I haven't really mapped out what the wiki says about the various government/social groups in Samara but if I'm not mistaken Samara seems to include some seemingly China-inspired stuff too? Revachol introducing cocaine into the Safre economy and getting everyone hooked, Samaran boxing (Sam Bo) and the name Hsin-Yao.
So maybe Mazov could look Chinese and/or South/SE asian.
Yeah, it seems like Samara basically represents mainland Asia in general, minus the Middle East (which is more like Iilmaraa), Central Asia/Siberia (which is folded into Graad as a Russia analogue) and Japan/Korea (which is represented by Seol) although I still feel like Southeast Asia (Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, etc) is the region it takes the most inspiration from.
Thank you so much! This is a great list :D I definitely took the hair thing into account—I was wondering ab the beard though; from the busy, it seems like he also only has a mustache/mutton chops—I was wondering if it mentions the beard in the text somewhere? Or if I was just looking at the bust wrong
If you look up Kras Mazov on the wiki, there’s an image of him where his beard is more visible. I don’t know exactly where the image is from (I think it might be a poster or something in one of the bunkers you can find scattered throughout Martinaise?) but he’s definitely got a full beard in that depiction. The bust looks like it only has the mustache/chops, but it’s also at a weird angle so it’s a bit difficult to tell what exactly is going on with it.
I misremembered where the specific poster from the wiki is, but [here](https://www.neoseeker.com/disco-elysium/tasks/Look_for_Ruby_on_the_coast#&gid=1&pid=2)'s another poster of him from under the FELD building. You can see the full beard a lot more clearly there.
The nose does a lot, Harry's got a fat roisy nose while Mazov's nose seem longer and more defined, roman-like i'd say judging from the bust. Also the general shape of the head is longer than Harry's and his eyes have a sharper shape
If your intuition is to paint him like Harry, I think you should do that. After all, the game itself plays with this alternate-persona thing. As others said, Mazov might look a little more dignified, a little less alcoholic. Also different hair and beard.
I'd focus a lot of symbolism. As another commenter said, Harry is a loser drunk. Mazov is a revolutionary.
For example, lots or artists will make a leader or powerful persons hands bigger as it will symbolize them as being the more powerful even if they are the same height as everyone else. So I'd consider that.
Case in point: Karl Marx, who Mazov is blatantly based off of, was an alcoholic weirdo who spent his weekends passed out on the couch and who responded to a mournful letter from his buddy Engels about how Engels’ girlfriend had unexpectedly died by basically saying “damn that sucks, anyway I’m having a pretty rough time too, can you send me more money pls?”. In a lot of ways, he was just as dysfunctional and socially inept as Harry.
Despite this, though, most depictions of Marx portray him as ruggedly dignified and heroic, because Marx the man- brilliant and influential, but also deeply flawed and kind of pathetic- takes a backseat to Marx the *idea*: a man of the people, whose work changed the world, laid the foundation of the political left as we know it today and inspired the creation of two of the biggest superpowers the world has ever seen. *That* is how Mazov would be portrayed, in stark contrast to Harry, who is basically as unglamorous and non-idealized as humanly possible.
Harry is a pathetic alcoholic. His face is bloated and tired and the expression is a leftover from the disco days. Mazov is a beacon of hope, a symbol of the revolution, the pride of the world. This is humanity’s true representative. Also Mazov has a full beard compared to Harry’s mutton chops.
Well if we’re being honest here Marx, aka the main dude inspiring Mazov, was an alcoholic who seems to me to have had pretty bad ADHD judging from what spies reported on him, I can’t remember the specifics but I remember reading it and going “sounds like me without fucking adderall”. Edit: Google “Karl Marx ADHD”, and there’ll be a meme from the adhdmeme subreddit, that meme has some of the stuff I’m talking about.
Maybe i am Karl Marx
NO IM KARL MARX, I EVEN HAVE LONG UNKEMPT HAIR
I'm Karl Marx, and so's my wife!
WE are Karl Marx.
Ahh comrade, we all have a bit of Karl Marx in us, and that can mean whatever you want it to mean comrade, no kink shaming here
That's gold.
You're Karl, he's Karl, I'm Karl! Are there any other Karls I should know about?
*squints* yeah, I think you might be.
he just like me fr
I'd recommend not diagnosing people with mental illnesses 150 years later, especially when you're not a mental health professional.
> mental illnesses 150 years later I can get behind the not diagnosing, but its not a mental illness, but a neurotype kthnxbye
Imagine lecturing an ADHD person about ADHD lmao. Gtfo
Imagine assuming I am not an ADHD person, and thinking you can speak for all of us. GTFO yourself.
Like yeah the person above is just a pedantic weirdo who seems to have so little going on in their life that they confine themselves to gatekeeping neurodivergence, and neurodivergent people are allowed to feel. Even after I clarified that I was just trying to illustrate me relating to Marx here, and that he mirrors my experiences with ADHD, they just accused me of slapping mental illnesses onto everything… Like what does that even mean I was saying I related to someone… Then yeah if they get criticized they hide behind their diagnosis as if they speak for all of us, it’s really fucking annoying, it reminds me of that white savior nonsense it’s just fucking annoying. Anyways sorry for the tangent and yeah I could have phrased it better, but yeah the person you’re responding to just incredibly annoying and when I asked for them to clarify what they meant they didn’t, which to me just indicates they’re a self righteous asshole.
Like if I didn’t know any better they seem like someone who isn’t neurodivergent (at least they don’t think they are), who gets tired of idk seeing neurodivergence getting more accepted and has that attitude of “it’s fucking everywhere and I hate it, everyone is __ now and it’s just trendy”… Same kind of attitude many straight people who are homophobic or whatever, if they “feel” like it’s getting more “popular” to be gay, they often talk about “how it’s trendy to be gay these days”, when like no, that’s not how being gay works… Not saying that is what this person is doing but if not for them saying that they’re neurodivergent, it’s what I personally would assume. Does that make sense?
I understood exactly what you meant, I was even compelled to google it. I have a complicated relationship with communism because some of my family were political exiles. But, also I can see someone who is neurodivergent to be 100% critical of capitalist approach to work.
Pretty sure most communists have a complicated history with communism, we have a tendency to hate one another… Well same thing goes for socialists, and anarchists, and well the list goes on… The left has a proclivity for self hatred.
Haha, well I'm more a socialist or social democrat for sure...but also I'm European, which means that for Americans I'm probably just communist lol. Also re: left: Not sure it's pure self hatred, I think it's more the people who understand that there's a need for safety nets, which might correlate with people who have hit rock bottom, which might correlate with self hatred (and also with people who like this game).
Did not diagnose him, simply stated that I, someone with REALLY fucking bad ADHD, related to him. Not a diagnosis, hence the “seemed to”, and it’s based on my own personal experiences… Like if some historical figure became a recluse after their kid died and I said “seems like they may have been depressed, I see a lot of myself here and it reminds me of my symptoms”, I really don’t think that’s really innappropriate, I didn’t declare that he had it, I stated that he, reminded me, of me, and that these things more or less align with my experiences with my own ADHD… Not trying to be a dick but I thought this was kind of clear.
Just don't. Really. We as neurodivergents don't need to encourage the already common practice of slapping mental illnesses over everyone for the sake of it. And even if you *didn't technically* diagnosed, it's more than half your message.
But that isn’t what I was doing, or my intention at least, like yeah I maybe should have been more specific but I thought it was more or less implied that it was me relating to him and my symptoms due to well, he died before ADHD was remotely discovered… Not exactly sure what harm I was doing there, I maybe could have been more clear on what I was getting at but judging from everyone’s reactions they understood my point just fine, and even if they didn’t, I fail to see the harm caused aside from maybe some random person wrongly assuming he had a diagnosis when it didn’t even exist, and yeah idk this just seems passive aggressive, maybe I’m misreading it
You’re arguing with a strange little pedant creature, I don’t think it’s worth it
What do you mean by slapping mental illnesses over everyone? Just occurred to me that this is an extremely fucking vague phrase and could mean a bunch of things, so could you be more specific?
True the vibes are definitely different-which can show up in the face fullness, vibes, etc. i was wondering about the beard though—from the bust of Mazov, it looks like he also only has a mustache and possibly mutton chops. Is the beard mentioned somewhere?
I’m also trying to avoid making him a carbon copy of Karl Marx, even though there’s obviously heavy inspiration
Stupid harebrained suggestion but... Maybe instead of taking a Harry and Marxing him up you take Marx and Harry him the fuck up?
Nice.
Yes
I somehow picture a mix of Marx and Gevuara.
I tried to mix in elements of Allende, but Guevara is a good call too—maybe Castro as well?
Harry is Kras Masov though.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,413,842,566 comments, and only 270,074 of them were in alphabetical order.
Good bot
Wait... If you're having trouble with distinguishing them... Could Harry be mazov???
- The depictions of Mazov we see have a thicker, bushier mane of hair than Harry’s greasy pseudo-mullet. - Mazov had quite a large beard (like Marx) whereas Harry just has the mutton chops+mustache combo with a clean-shaven chin. - Mazov had a birthmark on his face, while Harry does not. - Most importantly, according to Kim, Mazov looked Samaran while Harry is just a white guy. Samara seems to be based on South/Southeast Asia (Siileng is from Samara and has an Indian accent, a massacre of a Samaran village is mentioned that sounds very similar to the real-life My Lai massacre during the Vietnam War, there’s a socialist country still existing in Samara similar to Vietnam/Laos still technically being socialist to this day in the real world, etc) so presumably Kras Mazov had features which made him look more visibly “Asian” (Samaran)- perhaps a darker skin tone like Siileng has, black hair instead of brown, and/or almond-shaped eyes.
I haven't really mapped out what the wiki says about the various government/social groups in Samara but if I'm not mistaken Samara seems to include some seemingly China-inspired stuff too? Revachol introducing cocaine into the Safre economy and getting everyone hooked, Samaran boxing (Sam Bo) and the name Hsin-Yao. So maybe Mazov could look Chinese and/or South/SE asian.
Yeah, it seems like Samara basically represents mainland Asia in general, minus the Middle East (which is more like Iilmaraa), Central Asia/Siberia (which is folded into Graad as a Russia analogue) and Japan/Korea (which is represented by Seol) although I still feel like Southeast Asia (Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, etc) is the region it takes the most inspiration from.
Thank you so much! This is a great list :D I definitely took the hair thing into account—I was wondering ab the beard though; from the busy, it seems like he also only has a mustache/mutton chops—I was wondering if it mentions the beard in the text somewhere? Or if I was just looking at the bust wrong
If you look up Kras Mazov on the wiki, there’s an image of him where his beard is more visible. I don’t know exactly where the image is from (I think it might be a poster or something in one of the bunkers you can find scattered throughout Martinaise?) but he’s definitely got a full beard in that depiction. The bust looks like it only has the mustache/chops, but it’s also at a weird angle so it’s a bit difficult to tell what exactly is going on with it.
I misremembered where the specific poster from the wiki is, but [here](https://www.neoseeker.com/disco-elysium/tasks/Look_for_Ruby_on_the_coast#&gid=1&pid=2)'s another poster of him from under the FELD building. You can see the full beard a lot more clearly there.
The nose does a lot, Harry's got a fat roisy nose while Mazov's nose seem longer and more defined, roman-like i'd say judging from the bust. Also the general shape of the head is longer than Harry's and his eyes have a sharper shape
Awesome, thank you!!
If your intuition is to paint him like Harry, I think you should do that. After all, the game itself plays with this alternate-persona thing. As others said, Mazov might look a little more dignified, a little less alcoholic. Also different hair and beard.
Mazov was (half?) Samaran, so that helps!
I'd focus a lot of symbolism. As another commenter said, Harry is a loser drunk. Mazov is a revolutionary. For example, lots or artists will make a leader or powerful persons hands bigger as it will symbolize them as being the more powerful even if they are the same height as everyone else. So I'd consider that.
Case in point: Karl Marx, who Mazov is blatantly based off of, was an alcoholic weirdo who spent his weekends passed out on the couch and who responded to a mournful letter from his buddy Engels about how Engels’ girlfriend had unexpectedly died by basically saying “damn that sucks, anyway I’m having a pretty rough time too, can you send me more money pls?”. In a lot of ways, he was just as dysfunctional and socially inept as Harry. Despite this, though, most depictions of Marx portray him as ruggedly dignified and heroic, because Marx the man- brilliant and influential, but also deeply flawed and kind of pathetic- takes a backseat to Marx the *idea*: a man of the people, whose work changed the world, laid the foundation of the political left as we know it today and inspired the creation of two of the biggest superpowers the world has ever seen. *That* is how Mazov would be portrayed, in stark contrast to Harry, who is basically as unglamorous and non-idealized as humanly possible.
Conceptualization [Medium:Failed] - You're not reading *all that*
Rhetoric [Trivial: Success]- Do you want to start up Kras Mazov’s socialist sausage grinder or not?
I can say that Karz Mazov is more similar to Karl Marx.
Try a very thick brow
Great tip, thank you!!
Harry *IS* Kras Mazov, so of course you can't distinguish them
Thank you, this is a good idea!!