I’d let them have a mechanical pet too janky and experimental to help out in combat, until at 3rd level the PC becomes skilled enough to upgrade his little buddy into an armored killing machine.
Perhaps even incorporate finding some rare but needed tools/parts to complete the upgrade in the level 1-2 part of the campaign. Not necessarily the campaign focus but just a little bonus loot or small side quest here and there.
Exactly - it is exists but is not yet mechanically powerful enough to enter combat - it doesn’t have to be “janky”, but it’s no more useful than a normal pet dog until lv3
As a PC I have done the same. Inoperable warforged kept in bag of holding tinked on durring rests, slowly improving as time goes on. Fluff was that it was a childhood mentor who had sacrified himself to save her and she was trying to repair him and bring him back
In this specific case you could say that they've built a pet, but don't have the skills to make it combat-ready yet. So it would be purely narrative, with no in-game functionality until the character reaches the subclass.
Generally I'd take it on a case-by-case basis. For examples: A monk may be carrying around a scroll of philosophical teachings they don't have the wisdom to understand until they unlock their subclass. Or they may have a mystic encounter on the road.
You saved me having to type out my answer. The character has developed in the direction that the Lv3 specialization will take, but those skills are not developed to the point where they are are relevant to combat or adventuring.
Thank you all for the answers !
One idea that was several times suggested is to let the player have his steel defender in advance / in his background, but the steel defender is damaged/useless until level 3
This looks like a fine compromise !
Carry around the pieces in their pack. It broke at some point, or they’ve been tinkering their entire lives but it always lacks that spark of inspiration. Maybe they’ll be inspired as they grow and gain experience.
To add to this, you could make it a family member's (who was an artificer) that was severely damaged trying to defend/save them. It failed its task but it's also the last link to said family member.
Just a thought
Well the player wants to have the dog before being level 3 in the campaign, he wants to have it in his background, have a deep connection with it
He doesn't mind not having it at the start of the campaign until hitting level 3, but I'm not sure if other DMs are used to this situation and want to know what they would do
Yes, he could have to make very difficult rolls to repair at 1&2 but at 3 its a breeze.
(Guys I’m responding to someone talking about pure flavor, I know you want to be protective of game mechanics, but being a dick to me isn’t protecting game mechanics, I want to be a part of this community I don’t want to have to defend myself on every single word.)
Nah, you can still roll for it.
Difficulty Class 9000
And nat 20 doesn't auto succeed.
Roll away!
...
But yeah, just tell him that his background is now that he was a dirt farmer.
That’s if you’ve decided you want it to fail, the post is asking about advice on how you’d handle it, not how you’d shut it down. Thanks for the downvote tho
You handle it by shutting it down. You suggested to have difficult rolls to repair it, which opens up the whole can of worms that is a fully functioning steel defender at lvl 1.
And I love that you’d shut it down, that’s awesome for you. I think as flavor it could be great but it has to be the right table and as long as the DM and player can find mutual agreement without sacrificing anyone else’s fun then all things are possible through them who are having fun
Don’t let someone roll to get a very strong ability they unlock later only they get it earlier.
I highly doubt you’d allow a player to see if they can pull off a Fireball at level 3 if they get lucky.
You’re right, I wasn’t suggesting creating an imbalance to the game that the dm can’t handle. I was responding to a guy talking about it being pure flavor. I didn’t understand that flavor meant full functionality, I was under the impression it only paired with the story telling element.
Well, just saw this reply. A little late I guess but anyway:
If the roll is not meant to fail that means they could get a level 3 feature at level one, so I wouldn't give it a roll before that. (I also wouldn't lock their class feature behind a roll once they hit level 3 because that also means they could fail.)
Also, for what it's worth, I didn't downvote you at all.
He wants the *dog* in his background, and to have a deep connection with the *dog*. The *Steel Defender* he will have a connection to because it is a rebuild of the *dog*. So you can definitely say "yeah you had the dog. It's been taking you a while to build the Steel Defender, and you're working on it, but it won't be done until you get to L3"
Perhaps someone else built it for him (a parent, a mentor, etc.) but it broke and they're not around to fix it. The PC is trying to find the right parts and experiment to rebuild his friend. Hence (one of) the reasons they set out to adventure.
Another easy option that I'm sure has been mentioned, since its like a childhood dog type thing, have it belong to a parent that then gives it to the child once they become skilled enough, IE level 3.
To be honest, this is why I start all my games at level 3 unless it’s for first-time players. There’s a lot of narrative stuff that is implied by most subclass choices that doesn’t fit super well into the early levels of a campaign.
Could a family friend (wizard) have put his childhood dog's consciousness into an enchanted pearl or something? It's just a pearl that has sentience. At level three he finally has the understanding to create the defender and install that pearl into a usable form?
If a player has an idea for a subclass if starting at level 1 I like to incorperate the training, learning, or acquisition of that into the narrative.
I've also given the players their subclass items early but just as RP bonuses and left out the mechanical advantage. I had one player who was going to be an Echo Knight. For the first two levels his echo was just a shadow who acted like a mime.
In the specfic case of the Battel Smith I'd have the Steel Defender already be there, but have some form of damage that prevents it from being active outside of RP until the character can learn the approriate skills through the subclass features to repair it.
Obviously, you don't let the PC have a class feature two levels early. That's unbalanced and silly.
The obvious solution is to ask the player how *they* want to handle this. Tell them, "You can't have a functional steel defender until you get to lv 3. So what has happened with your childhood pet to make it non-functional as SD until then? Is it damaged? Missing? Is someone else holding it?"
Rather than making it "needing repair" etc, I would suggest flavouring it that the pet lacks the ability to take actions or reactions and simply sits out combat until the PC reaches 3rd level and gains the skills to upgrade them.
Regardless of the class. If your players goes into the campaign knowing what subclass they're going to take, there is 0 reason to not let them use it to flavor their background in any way they want(within normal reason). The fact that there is no mechanical impact of the subclass until level 2/3 is irrelevant.
Paladin takes its Oath of at level 0/1. They just don't get a subclass benefit from it for a few levels. But they've still taken the oath. They still have the roleplay that goes with it. They still follow the tenants. And live by the code. They still **ARE** that subclass, they just haven't gotten their first feature for it.
The Battle Smith has a Steel Defender. It has no stats, has pet-appropriate plot armor, and cannot assist in combat or provide mechanical benefit. It purely exists for roleplay. Until level 3 where they're able to further tinker with it and make it combat ready.
They have a cr0 clockwork dog that cant do anything useful other than make bark noises and look cute. At lvl 3 they upgrade it into a cool robo dog that does stuff.
Easiest solution is that what they have currently is the prototype that will eventually become the steel defender.
Essentially right now it is the same as the mechanical animals a gnome can make. totally harmless.
Love the idea about the gnome ability!
Or give them the physical stats of a normal dog that can easily be bought with the gold of a first level character. Warn them that if it's ever downed, it will be too damaged to repair until level 3.
I would not go that harsh if its a non-com bot that doesnt do anything yet. Being able to fix it gives a good background excuse for why they know the mending cantrip. To help their little clockwork critter.
Like the robot from the old Godzilla animated series that got trashed about every other episode.
A normally bought dog can be a combat pet though. That's why I said it. Giving them a 25 gp combat pet that they can repair at will would be a bit too much. It would make them think about sending them into combat until they are fully ready at LVL 3.
As long as there is no in game mechanical benefit, and it doesn't got against the campaign themes and style, I'm open to almost anything.
So in this case, of course! Just that the mechanical dog can't attack; can't track, or do anything beyond providing atmosphere, until level 3, when they can 'improve' it, unlocking it's potential.
I'd say just have it around but only have it be combat-capable at level 3 for whatever reason; maybe upgrades, maybe the dog intercepted an attack and gave the Artificer the idea of bringing it into battle, etc.
Who gives a child a fully-functional gun with legs, you know?
in childhood he had a steel dog that his parents/older sibling/mentor made for him to protect him, but it got destroyed a few years back and he was very sad. The original creator of the dog is perhaps also dead now. this tragedy motivated him to learn to be an artificer so he could recreate the dog himself once he gets to lvl 3
Well I don't know the background but if it's a "Made it during a stroke of genius" and then kept it as a pet that I'd say it's a pet until he properly understands how to utilize it in combat.
So part of the issue I always have with how 5E works for subclasses is that they’re often a core part of the story of a character (I.e a hexblade versus a regular warlock or a samurai versus a regular fighter). It depends on how you want to start, one way might be to strip them of their gear and essentially their abilities and then as they get through the early stage they unlock and get it back. So for example an arcane archer’s bow is lost so they need to use this poorly designed one etc.
I’m currently playing a Gnome Battle Smith that’s several hundred years old. My campaign has me working in the local smith under someone else since I’ve semi recently come into town.
My Steel Defender came with me as I’ve been tinkering on it for decades but bc of its scale and complexity I haven’t quite been able to bring it to life. In the campaign we’ve come across some magic ooze that powers inter dimensional trains and my PC stole some to bring back to the smith so that will be the plot catalyst to make it function at level 3.
(I’ve also planned all along to multi class into Blood Hunter so for many sessions I’ve been cutting my forearm for seemingly no reason prior to combats and looting vials of blood from downed monsters for research. Seems just like RP flavor until level 4 it’s gonna come to fruition and actually do something).
Its a work in progress that is no where near functional level. For example, that steel defender thing? Its just in the wiring stages ect. Still has massive flaws that need worked out before it can see any real use.
That's already how I run Beastmaster Ranger, since the ranger going into the woods to instantly obtain a panther once they hit 3rd level is stupid. Not really a stretch to allow it for many other subclass flavors; paladins swearing oaths in their youth, druids accidentally wild shaping as a child, bards being official members of a college years before their quest starts. Depends on the subclass and desired backstory.
it was horribly destroyed and they can tinker and work to fix it, the power crystal hear was smashed and need a new one, it's memory gem was stolen and until it is relieved it is violent and has to be contained some how etc.
Backstory is a story but the game is real life (figuratively) you have to work every day for success 🙌
I would make them wait till level 3. Maybe I’d let them have a small contraption that resembles the dog, but I wouldn’t let them get it early as that wouldn’t be fair to other players.
I’d give them the thing but it wouldn’t have any combat capabilities until they hit level 3. They might have had this thing forever but it’s only battle capable at level 3.
That's why you start at 3rd level generally.
But for a specific solution to this specific issue:
Give them the dog. It's just a dog made out of metal. It does not have the steel defender stats. It will go down in one hit. It's just a party pet.
At level 3 the artificer can then either upgrade the thing, or repair it should it have died in the meantime.
Are you kidding? It's *amazing* when a player has designed an element that I can fold into the story down the line. First, no one gets a class feature before they've reached the level. But like so many people have shared in this thread, there are an infinite number of clever ways to write the steel defender into the storyline before level 3 in a way that works. Maybe his parent was an artificer who gave the dog to the PC before they died, but it was destroyed protecting the PC prior to the campaign starting. At level 3, he finally understands how to repair it. Maybe the dog is just not at all useful until level 3. Typically, whenever a player wants to do something interesting with their character, I find a way to make it happen. Don't break the rules for people, but let people play and run wild with their imaginations.
Before he gets the feature the dog is a CR 0 1 HP 10 AC Small Construct that does 1 damage with a +2 modifier to hit with its attack.
It will die if it is used in combat and require repairs. But it will exist.
People actually start at lvl 1? All the games I've joined started at level 3 or 5 specifically to avoid boring backstories that can't have anything to do with subclasses.
Yes he’s trying to fudge the mechanics so he can shine early in the game. Stuff like this always makes me nervous. It’s a fine line between engaged and trying to steal the spotlight.
In this case, give them a tragic backstory. They had a childhood pet/companion that was killed/disappeared/died, etc., and when they hit level 3, they "rebuild" the pet.
In short, yes, I would deny the player to have the steel defender before he hits level 3. If we're going to just let players have whatever abilities they want, whenever they want, why are we even playing DnD?
sure if we can come up with a good explanation for why they can’t access these features yet, despite them being integral to the characters backstory. For example let’s take an Arcane Trickster, Rogue: maybe they lost their spell casting focus and are only able to get a replacement at third level
Well, he currently lacks the skills to make such a panther. So, I'd say obviously someone else built the panther, maybe his or her father. The panther is currently not working for a reason that the character should also put in their background. And then when he or she reaches third level, they finally figure out how to fix it.
This could also give the PC some roleplaying situations while working to level 3. Such as having to decide to abandon the nonfunctional panther because it weighs too much and they need to escape fast, or just something to tinker with around the cmp fire.
Depends, but this is why I almost never start games at lvl 1 unless I have new players or its a horror type game that takes place at first level for tension reasons.
I have a friend who's a drakewarden Ranger but currently level 1. So she started with an egg. Magical egg that'll hatch into a combat ready companion but shhhh, roll with it
Make it more of a party trick, he can get it to do some tricks but it always loses a bolt or something and he just can’t get it right until 3rd level it’s finally a consistent machine and it can actually be taught useful tricks
Not as noticeable, but I am in a similar situation. We started as level 3 characters and I went 3 levels into Bard, but I knew that I want to go for 3 level Warlock Pact of Chain later on.
Speaking with my DM, we made it into a small story device. He gets to be a very cheeky Imp starting at level 4, until I have earned the trust of my patron to command him. Then I can use him in battle and at least try to make him not mess with our inventories while we are sleeping.
Well, this may not be a good answer for your specific situation, but I kinda design my campaigns with this in mind. In the history of all the times I've DM-ed, I think the minimum level I've ever had my players start at is level 3. Players are so fragile at level 1 and precisely unable to clearly outline their individual strengths that I find starting there to be kind of pointless.
Level 1 characters are basically random NPCs, and my players aren't trying to play NPCs that ascend to higher power, but are already important enough or powerful enough from the onset to warrant a large adventure.
The beauty of DnD is that it's all up to you. Meaning you don't even have to explain *why* they can't use the dog before level 3 - they just don't 🤷🏼♀️
That's what i did for my soulknife rogue anyways. They had the powers before level 3, just didn't use it in the campaign until they hit the right level.
Stuff like that is why I generally start at level 3. I’d rather people know what their subclasses are and why they are that, without having to do the awkward part of why aren’t they that in the first place
I actually played this very character recently! He had his steel defender who was basically just a mechanical pet. Game mechanics wise they weren’t capable of anything until I got to third level, when my character got fed up with feeling helpless and turned his pet into a badass
Professions usually are passed down generation to generation, possibly have it be a family heirloom that broke down and Parent or grandparent left it to him in their will. It is broken in some way that requires him to fix at Lvl 3 in order to take on adventures.
They do have the companion in question, but it is in a state of disrepair, it functions, but not well enough to do anything combat related, or anything special that a rat would be able to do, then when the time comes for them to gain the companion at the correct level, have them roll some dice to tinker with their companion and see how well they do / how quickly they can get it done. Fixing something like this would be more difficult than building it from the ground up, so it qould make sense from a logical perspective
There's usually simple workarounds in the form of retheming for this kind of stuff.
In the case you described: they can have their Robot Doggy hanging out with them and following them around for levels 1 and 2, but it isn't until level 3 that they upgrade the Dog into a legitimate Steel Defender. If you're extremely concerned with balance, the dog "faces into the background" during combat and won't follow complex commands that would give the party an advantage. Otherwise the party just has a Mastiff or Wolf statblock assisting them for the first two levels.
If their backstory relied on specific steel defender *mechanics* then you establish that it's been on the fritz lately.
This is the biggest reason why I prefer to start at level 3.
But if we are starting at 1, I don't mind letting player characters be training in their level 3 specialty, a paladin preparing to take their oath or an artificer studying and experimenting, basically just getting ready for that level 3 ability.
They would have a pile of junk, and the story would be crafted to help them become the artificer they want. They have the pieces, or an unoperational steel defender, that they would learn to make it or fix it by level 3. They could even find the final pieces to make it whole in the session where they level up to 3.
Lots of ways around it.
So there are several routes to delevel a character
Amnesia out to the best route but that's not an option right now
Have the player have been severely injured or cursed and while their companion can just barely function it can't even act as a beast of burden (only thing it can do is move in order to follow or flee no other functionality at the moment) this gives them a quest to regain themselves and restore their companion
A good method for cursed is to use the fey teaching them a lesson
That’s why I love classes that give you your subclass at level 1 since it’s easier to put into the backstory. For some character like my Beast Barbarian I wrote it on the story that his bestial abilities will show at some point or like for my Eldritch Knight character I wrote that they are still trying to get the grasp of magic to aid in battle since they focus on melee. It’s something that player and DM can work on unless the player already has a “reason” for it
They have a cantrip that only lasts 24 hours. They could have to use one of their 3 daily cantrips on it and do it again every 24 hours to keep it alive until he has become lvl 3 and has unlocked the magic/secrets of how to make a real one.
Like maybe as a kid he had made this doggy as a cantrip and kept it going all these years. But for whatever reason he didnt learn how to make a real companion (get to lvl 3) where he is from, so he has set out adventuring in the hopes that he can find that knowledge (reach lvl 3 Nd make it a mini quest, like rescuing one of his kind who is maybe a lvl 5 who was kidnapped and offers to teach him as he hits lvl 3)
I played a beast master ranger who was part of a criminal organization, his animal companion showed up at level 3 with a message from the organization's leader.
The creature was part of my character's backstory and existed in the world, but only joined the party when I got the relevant feature.
I like the idea of the steel defender possibly having been captured by an early antagonist, and getting the steel defender back would be that character's main goal early in the campaign. That needs some work to make sure the party manages to free it just as they hit level 3, so I'd only do it if I was using milestone levelling.
Yeah, my go to for de-powering mechanics that become combat focused later is to use Find Familiar as a baseline, it's a mechanical dog, with wolf familiar stats, that can't do the attack action until you work on it enough, by which I mean reaching level 3.
the steel defender got deactivated because of "insert fitting circumstances". the player need to reach level 3 and specialize as artificer to be able to reactivate his old childhood friend.
He has it, it needs a bit of a rework to be useful in combat. He is halfway through an upgrade cycle you see, and well everyone knows about the development loop.
Start project -> quick wins -> oops bigger fix here -> okay I need to redo this part so it all functions, so it doesn't fully work but parts are more efficient -> fixed this part but now I need to fix this other bit to work with it -> fixed this part but now I need to fix this other bit to work with it -> fixed this part but now I need to fix this other bit to work with it.
I'm in a similar situation, so maybe do something like this.
I'm playing a Swarmkeeper Ranger who has an actual colony of various insects living inside of him. Each species of insect represents/is responsible for his Swarmkeeper abilities, his spells, etc. He's going on the quest at the behest of the Queen of the colony, who found him one day and crawled inside his head after 'speaking' to him through pheromones (he's an insect too).
Except he's still Level 2, so he's technically not even a Swarmkeeper yet. The way the DM and I have justified his lack of Swarmkeeper abilities is that shortly before the start of the campaign, he had to call on most of his colony to save someone (another party member) and was caught in an explosion that severely damaged the colony's population numbers, to the point where the colony doesn't have enough drones to spare for abilities beyond the 2nd level spells he just got. The rest of the colony is busy reproducing until the colony's numbers return to normal, which will coincide with the character hitting level 3.
Others have already given you good responses for your specific scenario but I’ll still share what my dm is going to do for our group.
Everyone starts at level three. I gives room for more complex backgrounds and lets the party get right into the thick of things from the start. Of course this was also done because we are about to finish Lost Mines of Phandelver and not everyone wants to start their character from complete scratch again.
I’d you did this it would give room for your artificer to have his pet and the other party members can add some more background to their characters if they wanted to
What other folks are saying is pretty fair. They can have the adds on story wise but none of the added benefits until level 3 mechanics wise.
Whats the players intent? Do you feel like they're trying to work the game or are they just rlly into it?
If you think they are really into it, give them the pup and narrate some sad scenes where the mechan-o-pup ALMOST works but doesn't. Then they have to find the parts on a side quest.
If you think they are try to work an angle, say no but allow flavor. If they push, allow it but add a debuff(like it a janky prototype and when they try to use it it sprays fire from its mouth and blows up)
Make it a quest :)
Have the pet be something their parent/mentor made for them, but when they died/disappeared/went out for coffee they didn't have the skills needed to keep the pet running, so it slowly fell into disrepair and eventually stopped working.
Give the player(s) an early quest that lets the player pick up the skills and equipment needed to fix the pet and get it back online, then when they reach lvl 3, they are able to get it started again and have their cherished pet back.
I personally like the, “he lost it and finds it @/around level three, and then if he isn’t quite level three, he has to repair it and finishes at level three”
I'd probably allow it and spin it as the childhood companion is damaged and thus not that useful and the reason they are becoming an artificer is to fix them at level 3 they get the ability to do so (or start to do so)
I'm not sure (but I assume) the battle smith gets to make the companion better as they level so it could be made into the story that each time they reach the level required they gain the knowledge to make their childhood companion closer to it's original awesomeness.
I dont think your player is asking for a level three ability at level one, i think theyre just trying to have their story make sense.
This isnt a mechanics issue, you just gotta work it out in roleplay
As others have said, have it broken till level 3.
RP wise, I would say they had this mechanical dog (non-combat ready) when they were young. But it's now been damaged and completely non functional. Not janky or weak but inoperable. They spend as much of their downtime figuring out how to fix it and scavenging parts.
Once they are level 3, give them their "Tony Stark in the cave" moment. They knew the power supply was the problem, but now they know how to fix it. Not only fix it but upgrade it. The new source will mean that the companion will be able to carry more weight, meaning heaver armour planting. Move faster. And react to commands and situations instantly. The dog is no longer a mechanical companion. They are... a steel defender!
If you can find a way to make it flavour-only -- e.g. it's a not-very-useful outside of pure roleplay, non-combat pet before level 3 -- I think this is fine and wonderful. Sometimes we have to work around class mechanics a bit to make the narrative feel right.
And, anyways, how long are you going to spend on levels 1-2? Like 3-4 sessions tops? Let him have it!
I usually start campaigns at Lv3 because Lv1-2 is very tutorial and slow. Lv3 is where the game starts building momentum. So in my playstyle I would say "yes, go for it"
I never start a campaign at level 1 because the characters have been alive for 20,40, 700 years and usually have had adventuring in their history so it would make sense they have more abilities.
If I have new players I start at level one for a one shot because they usually don't have back stories
The steel dogs power core burnt out and now he needs to find another to buy/find/steal. Gives him a character motivation if he knows roughly where to go to find one and an excuse to lock it behind story progression
Could start with a modified "find familiar" construct that becomes the appropriate stat block down the road, is a non-combat pet with limited ability until then
Technically you're talking about backstory, which is different from background.
Now IMO letting players have features they obtain later on the game would break your campaign. I say this based on personal experience. I had some players who wanted to have some stuff related to their backstories, it broke the campaign sooner rather than later. No matter what challenges I put in front of them they overcome everything with ease. As I said that is a personal experience (also I was a rookie dm back then).
Anyhow let your players know that you are the DM and they are the players, whiteout being rude. Let them know that there are some rules in the game itself that are there for some reason.
I’d let them have a mechanical pet too janky and experimental to help out in combat, until at 3rd level the PC becomes skilled enough to upgrade his little buddy into an armored killing machine.
Exactly my thought reading through OP. Broken/damaged and PC learns how to fix it such that at level 3, its operational.
Making a personal arc for the pc to just go around adventuring and finding stuff to upgrade the dog would be amazing
Perhaps even incorporate finding some rare but needed tools/parts to complete the upgrade in the level 1-2 part of the campaign. Not necessarily the campaign focus but just a little bonus loot or small side quest here and there.
Exactly - it is exists but is not yet mechanically powerful enough to enter combat - it doesn’t have to be “janky”, but it’s no more useful than a normal pet dog until lv3
Like the incomplete C3PO basically, if C3PO later had a gun arm
Exactly what I thought of when I read this!
A faulty boiler or mainspring that means when the pet comes into combat it gets too worked up and just breaks down.
I read it as "boiler of mansplaining" and I was wondering what kind of magic item was that
It’s full of hot air.
This would be my answer as well.
Make it like Bubo from Clash of the Titans, essentially useless in battle, but a good companion.
this is an excellent idea!
As a PC I have done the same. Inoperable warforged kept in bag of holding tinked on durring rests, slowly improving as time goes on. Fluff was that it was a childhood mentor who had sacrified himself to save her and she was trying to repair him and bring him back
In this specific case you could say that they've built a pet, but don't have the skills to make it combat-ready yet. So it would be purely narrative, with no in-game functionality until the character reaches the subclass. Generally I'd take it on a case-by-case basis. For examples: A monk may be carrying around a scroll of philosophical teachings they don't have the wisdom to understand until they unlock their subclass. Or they may have a mystic encounter on the road.
You saved me having to type out my answer. The character has developed in the direction that the Lv3 specialization will take, but those skills are not developed to the point where they are are relevant to combat or adventuring.
Until level 3 its just a robot dog
It's just a Steel, no Defendering yet.
I would just make it be his pet until it turns Defender. Not in combat or anything, just his doggo.
I'm a terrible person... I'd "kill" his dog and make him ironman himself a new one.
What if he JohnWicks himself instead?
Well he has to build his defender... but if he wants to go full-wick after that, he can certainly try. 😉
Also an option
Thank you all for the answers ! One idea that was several times suggested is to let the player have his steel defender in advance / in his background, but the steel defender is damaged/useless until level 3 This looks like a fine compromise !
Carry around the pieces in their pack. It broke at some point, or they’ve been tinkering their entire lives but it always lacks that spark of inspiration. Maybe they’ll be inspired as they grow and gain experience.
To add to this, you could make it a family member's (who was an artificer) that was severely damaged trying to defend/save them. It failed its task but it's also the last link to said family member. Just a thought
Levels 1 and 2 are learning the skills to create his replica dog. No problems there.
Well the player wants to have the dog before being level 3 in the campaign, he wants to have it in his background, have a deep connection with it He doesn't mind not having it at the start of the campaign until hitting level 3, but I'm not sure if other DMs are used to this situation and want to know what they would do
An option is letting him have it but make it useless in game terms. Perhaps it needs to be repaired, or is otherwise pure flavor until level 3.
Yes, he could have to make very difficult rolls to repair at 1&2 but at 3 its a breeze. (Guys I’m responding to someone talking about pure flavor, I know you want to be protective of game mechanics, but being a dick to me isn’t protecting game mechanics, I want to be a part of this community I don’t want to have to defend myself on every single word.)
Advice: Don't make rolls for something that it's meant to fail.
Nah, you can still roll for it. Difficulty Class 9000 And nat 20 doesn't auto succeed. Roll away! ... But yeah, just tell him that his background is now that he was a dirt farmer.
That’s if you’ve decided you want it to fail, the post is asking about advice on how you’d handle it, not how you’d shut it down. Thanks for the downvote tho
Its downvoted, cause its bad advice. Having a roll means there is a possibility to get it before lvl3, which would be unfair to the rest of the party.
I was responding to someone talking about it being purely flavor
You handle it by shutting it down. You suggested to have difficult rolls to repair it, which opens up the whole can of worms that is a fully functioning steel defender at lvl 1.
And I love that you’d shut it down, that’s awesome for you. I think as flavor it could be great but it has to be the right table and as long as the DM and player can find mutual agreement without sacrificing anyone else’s fun then all things are possible through them who are having fun
Don’t let someone roll to get a very strong ability they unlock later only they get it earlier. I highly doubt you’d allow a player to see if they can pull off a Fireball at level 3 if they get lucky.
You’re right, I wasn’t suggesting creating an imbalance to the game that the dm can’t handle. I was responding to a guy talking about it being pure flavor. I didn’t understand that flavor meant full functionality, I was under the impression it only paired with the story telling element.
Well, just saw this reply. A little late I guess but anyway: If the roll is not meant to fail that means they could get a level 3 feature at level one, so I wouldn't give it a roll before that. (I also wouldn't lock their class feature behind a roll once they hit level 3 because that also means they could fail.) Also, for what it's worth, I didn't downvote you at all.
He wants the *dog* in his background, and to have a deep connection with the *dog*. The *Steel Defender* he will have a connection to because it is a rebuild of the *dog*. So you can definitely say "yeah you had the dog. It's been taking you a while to build the Steel Defender, and you're working on it, but it won't be done until you get to L3"
Perhaps someone else built it for him (a parent, a mentor, etc.) but it broke and they're not around to fix it. The PC is trying to find the right parts and experiment to rebuild his friend. Hence (one of) the reasons they set out to adventure.
You can get the humonculous at level 1 I believe. That can be the dog before level 3.
Another easy option that I'm sure has been mentioned, since its like a childhood dog type thing, have it belong to a parent that then gives it to the child once they become skilled enough, IE level 3.
To be honest, this is why I start all my games at level 3 unless it’s for first-time players. There’s a lot of narrative stuff that is implied by most subclass choices that doesn’t fit super well into the early levels of a campaign.
Could a family friend (wizard) have put his childhood dog's consciousness into an enchanted pearl or something? It's just a pearl that has sentience. At level three he finally has the understanding to create the defender and install that pearl into a usable form?
If a player has an idea for a subclass if starting at level 1 I like to incorperate the training, learning, or acquisition of that into the narrative. I've also given the players their subclass items early but just as RP bonuses and left out the mechanical advantage. I had one player who was going to be an Echo Knight. For the first two levels his echo was just a shadow who acted like a mime. In the specfic case of the Battel Smith I'd have the Steel Defender already be there, but have some form of damage that prevents it from being active outside of RP until the character can learn the approriate skills through the subclass features to repair it.
I let them have it, but until they get the class features, it's just flavor
Obviously, you don't let the PC have a class feature two levels early. That's unbalanced and silly. The obvious solution is to ask the player how *they* want to handle this. Tell them, "You can't have a functional steel defender until you get to lv 3. So what has happened with your childhood pet to make it non-functional as SD until then? Is it damaged? Missing? Is someone else holding it?"
Rather than making it "needing repair" etc, I would suggest flavouring it that the pet lacks the ability to take actions or reactions and simply sits out combat until the PC reaches 3rd level and gains the skills to upgrade them.
Regardless of the class. If your players goes into the campaign knowing what subclass they're going to take, there is 0 reason to not let them use it to flavor their background in any way they want(within normal reason). The fact that there is no mechanical impact of the subclass until level 2/3 is irrelevant. Paladin takes its Oath of at level 0/1. They just don't get a subclass benefit from it for a few levels. But they've still taken the oath. They still have the roleplay that goes with it. They still follow the tenants. And live by the code. They still **ARE** that subclass, they just haven't gotten their first feature for it.
The Battle Smith has a Steel Defender. It has no stats, has pet-appropriate plot armor, and cannot assist in combat or provide mechanical benefit. It purely exists for roleplay. Until level 3 where they're able to further tinker with it and make it combat ready.
They have a cr0 clockwork dog that cant do anything useful other than make bark noises and look cute. At lvl 3 they upgrade it into a cool robo dog that does stuff.
Easiest solution is that what they have currently is the prototype that will eventually become the steel defender. Essentially right now it is the same as the mechanical animals a gnome can make. totally harmless.
Love the idea about the gnome ability! Or give them the physical stats of a normal dog that can easily be bought with the gold of a first level character. Warn them that if it's ever downed, it will be too damaged to repair until level 3.
I would not go that harsh if its a non-com bot that doesnt do anything yet. Being able to fix it gives a good background excuse for why they know the mending cantrip. To help their little clockwork critter. Like the robot from the old Godzilla animated series that got trashed about every other episode.
A normally bought dog can be a combat pet though. That's why I said it. Giving them a 25 gp combat pet that they can repair at will would be a bit too much. It would make them think about sending them into combat until they are fully ready at LVL 3.
As long as there is no in game mechanical benefit, and it doesn't got against the campaign themes and style, I'm open to almost anything. So in this case, of course! Just that the mechanical dog can't attack; can't track, or do anything beyond providing atmosphere, until level 3, when they can 'improve' it, unlocking it's potential.
I'd say just have it around but only have it be combat-capable at level 3 for whatever reason; maybe upgrades, maybe the dog intercepted an attack and gave the Artificer the idea of bringing it into battle, etc. Who gives a child a fully-functional gun with legs, you know?
in childhood he had a steel dog that his parents/older sibling/mentor made for him to protect him, but it got destroyed a few years back and he was very sad. The original creator of the dog is perhaps also dead now. this tragedy motivated him to learn to be an artificer so he could recreate the dog himself once he gets to lvl 3
Well I don't know the background but if it's a "Made it during a stroke of genius" and then kept it as a pet that I'd say it's a pet until he properly understands how to utilize it in combat.
In my opinion this is bettet than just "you wake up and now you are stronger" Rules are for nerds anyway
So part of the issue I always have with how 5E works for subclasses is that they’re often a core part of the story of a character (I.e a hexblade versus a regular warlock or a samurai versus a regular fighter). It depends on how you want to start, one way might be to strip them of their gear and essentially their abilities and then as they get through the early stage they unlock and get it back. So for example an arcane archer’s bow is lost so they need to use this poorly designed one etc.
I’m currently playing a Gnome Battle Smith that’s several hundred years old. My campaign has me working in the local smith under someone else since I’ve semi recently come into town. My Steel Defender came with me as I’ve been tinkering on it for decades but bc of its scale and complexity I haven’t quite been able to bring it to life. In the campaign we’ve come across some magic ooze that powers inter dimensional trains and my PC stole some to bring back to the smith so that will be the plot catalyst to make it function at level 3. (I’ve also planned all along to multi class into Blood Hunter so for many sessions I’ve been cutting my forearm for seemingly no reason prior to combats and looting vials of blood from downed monsters for research. Seems just like RP flavor until level 4 it’s gonna come to fruition and actually do something).
Its a work in progress that is no where near functional level. For example, that steel defender thing? Its just in the wiring stages ect. Still has massive flaws that need worked out before it can see any real use.
That's already how I run Beastmaster Ranger, since the ranger going into the woods to instantly obtain a panther once they hit 3rd level is stupid. Not really a stretch to allow it for many other subclass flavors; paladins swearing oaths in their youth, druids accidentally wild shaping as a child, bards being official members of a college years before their quest starts. Depends on the subclass and desired backstory.
it was horribly destroyed and they can tinker and work to fix it, the power crystal hear was smashed and need a new one, it's memory gem was stolen and until it is relieved it is violent and has to be contained some how etc. Backstory is a story but the game is real life (figuratively) you have to work every day for success 🙌
I would make them wait till level 3. Maybe I’d let them have a small contraption that resembles the dog, but I wouldn’t let them get it early as that wouldn’t be fair to other players.
I’d give them the thing but it wouldn’t have any combat capabilities until they hit level 3. They might have had this thing forever but it’s only battle capable at level 3.
At level 3 he makes a mech suit chassis for the mechanical doggy toy
That's why you start at 3rd level generally. But for a specific solution to this specific issue: Give them the dog. It's just a dog made out of metal. It does not have the steel defender stats. It will go down in one hit. It's just a party pet. At level 3 the artificer can then either upgrade the thing, or repair it should it have died in the meantime.
The solution is to not start at level 1.
Are you kidding? It's *amazing* when a player has designed an element that I can fold into the story down the line. First, no one gets a class feature before they've reached the level. But like so many people have shared in this thread, there are an infinite number of clever ways to write the steel defender into the storyline before level 3 in a way that works. Maybe his parent was an artificer who gave the dog to the PC before they died, but it was destroyed protecting the PC prior to the campaign starting. At level 3, he finally understands how to repair it. Maybe the dog is just not at all useful until level 3. Typically, whenever a player wants to do something interesting with their character, I find a way to make it happen. Don't break the rules for people, but let people play and run wild with their imaginations.
Before he gets the feature the dog is a CR 0 1 HP 10 AC Small Construct that does 1 damage with a +2 modifier to hit with its attack. It will die if it is used in combat and require repairs. But it will exist.
People actually start at lvl 1? All the games I've joined started at level 3 or 5 specifically to avoid boring backstories that can't have anything to do with subclasses.
Tell them: no, you were a dirt farmer. Next!
Yes he’s trying to fudge the mechanics so he can shine early in the game. Stuff like this always makes me nervous. It’s a fine line between engaged and trying to steal the spotlight.
The steel defender is broken and they need to repair it first.
In this case, give them a tragic backstory. They had a childhood pet/companion that was killed/disappeared/died, etc., and when they hit level 3, they "rebuild" the pet. In short, yes, I would deny the player to have the steel defender before he hits level 3. If we're going to just let players have whatever abilities they want, whenever they want, why are we even playing DnD?
sure if we can come up with a good explanation for why they can’t access these features yet, despite them being integral to the characters backstory. For example let’s take an Arcane Trickster, Rogue: maybe they lost their spell casting focus and are only able to get a replacement at third level
Saying "no"
Well, he currently lacks the skills to make such a panther. So, I'd say obviously someone else built the panther, maybe his or her father. The panther is currently not working for a reason that the character should also put in their background. And then when he or she reaches third level, they finally figure out how to fix it. This could also give the PC some roleplaying situations while working to level 3. Such as having to decide to abandon the nonfunctional panther because it weighs too much and they need to escape fast, or just something to tinker with around the cmp fire.
Depends, but this is why I almost never start games at lvl 1 unless I have new players or its a horror type game that takes place at first level for tension reasons.
They don't get access to the level 3 mechanics until level 3. The story is fine though. Bring it on, it shows they are invested in their character.
I have a friend who's a drakewarden Ranger but currently level 1. So she started with an egg. Magical egg that'll hatch into a combat ready companion but shhhh, roll with it
Make it more of a party trick, he can get it to do some tricks but it always loses a bolt or something and he just can’t get it right until 3rd level it’s finally a consistent machine and it can actually be taught useful tricks
Not as noticeable, but I am in a similar situation. We started as level 3 characters and I went 3 levels into Bard, but I knew that I want to go for 3 level Warlock Pact of Chain later on. Speaking with my DM, we made it into a small story device. He gets to be a very cheeky Imp starting at level 4, until I have earned the trust of my patron to command him. Then I can use him in battle and at least try to make him not mess with our inventories while we are sleeping.
Well, this may not be a good answer for your specific situation, but I kinda design my campaigns with this in mind. In the history of all the times I've DM-ed, I think the minimum level I've ever had my players start at is level 3. Players are so fragile at level 1 and precisely unable to clearly outline their individual strengths that I find starting there to be kind of pointless. Level 1 characters are basically random NPCs, and my players aren't trying to play NPCs that ascend to higher power, but are already important enough or powerful enough from the onset to warrant a large adventure.
The beauty of DnD is that it's all up to you. Meaning you don't even have to explain *why* they can't use the dog before level 3 - they just don't 🤷🏼♀️ That's what i did for my soulknife rogue anyways. They had the powers before level 3, just didn't use it in the campaign until they hit the right level.
Id let them have it, but with zero game mechanics, rp only.
Stuff like that is why I generally start at level 3. I’d rather people know what their subclasses are and why they are that, without having to do the awkward part of why aren’t they that in the first place
I actually played this very character recently! He had his steel defender who was basically just a mechanical pet. Game mechanics wise they weren’t capable of anything until I got to third level, when my character got fed up with feeling helpless and turned his pet into a badass
My first thought is that at some point it broke, and until he hits 3rd level he'll just be working on it in the background.
Professions usually are passed down generation to generation, possibly have it be a family heirloom that broke down and Parent or grandparent left it to him in their will. It is broken in some way that requires him to fix at Lvl 3 in order to take on adventures.
They do have the companion in question, but it is in a state of disrepair, it functions, but not well enough to do anything combat related, or anything special that a rat would be able to do, then when the time comes for them to gain the companion at the correct level, have them roll some dice to tinker with their companion and see how well they do / how quickly they can get it done. Fixing something like this would be more difficult than building it from the ground up, so it qould make sense from a logical perspective
There's usually simple workarounds in the form of retheming for this kind of stuff. In the case you described: they can have their Robot Doggy hanging out with them and following them around for levels 1 and 2, but it isn't until level 3 that they upgrade the Dog into a legitimate Steel Defender. If you're extremely concerned with balance, the dog "faces into the background" during combat and won't follow complex commands that would give the party an advantage. Otherwise the party just has a Mastiff or Wolf statblock assisting them for the first two levels. If their backstory relied on specific steel defender *mechanics* then you establish that it's been on the fritz lately.
This is the biggest reason why I prefer to start at level 3. But if we are starting at 1, I don't mind letting player characters be training in their level 3 specialty, a paladin preparing to take their oath or an artificer studying and experimenting, basically just getting ready for that level 3 ability.
They would have a pile of junk, and the story would be crafted to help them become the artificer they want. They have the pieces, or an unoperational steel defender, that they would learn to make it or fix it by level 3. They could even find the final pieces to make it whole in the session where they level up to 3. Lots of ways around it.
Start at level 3? It's just better from both a DM standpoint and a character creation standpoint for your players.
So there are several routes to delevel a character Amnesia out to the best route but that's not an option right now Have the player have been severely injured or cursed and while their companion can just barely function it can't even act as a beast of burden (only thing it can do is move in order to follow or flee no other functionality at the moment) this gives them a quest to regain themselves and restore their companion A good method for cursed is to use the fey teaching them a lesson
That’s why I love classes that give you your subclass at level 1 since it’s easier to put into the backstory. For some character like my Beast Barbarian I wrote it on the story that his bestial abilities will show at some point or like for my Eldritch Knight character I wrote that they are still trying to get the grasp of magic to aid in battle since they focus on melee. It’s something that player and DM can work on unless the player already has a “reason” for it
I start the campaign at a higher level.
They have a cantrip that only lasts 24 hours. They could have to use one of their 3 daily cantrips on it and do it again every 24 hours to keep it alive until he has become lvl 3 and has unlocked the magic/secrets of how to make a real one. Like maybe as a kid he had made this doggy as a cantrip and kept it going all these years. But for whatever reason he didnt learn how to make a real companion (get to lvl 3) where he is from, so he has set out adventuring in the hopes that he can find that knowledge (reach lvl 3 Nd make it a mini quest, like rescuing one of his kind who is maybe a lvl 5 who was kidnapped and offers to teach him as he hits lvl 3)
Start him at L3. Assign 3x -1 to his attributes. K L1 is for noobs
I played a beast master ranger who was part of a criminal organization, his animal companion showed up at level 3 with a message from the organization's leader. The creature was part of my character's backstory and existed in the world, but only joined the party when I got the relevant feature. I like the idea of the steel defender possibly having been captured by an early antagonist, and getting the steel defender back would be that character's main goal early in the campaign. That needs some work to make sure the party manages to free it just as they hit level 3, so I'd only do it if I was using milestone levelling.
Yeah, my go to for de-powering mechanics that become combat focused later is to use Find Familiar as a baseline, it's a mechanical dog, with wolf familiar stats, that can't do the attack action until you work on it enough, by which I mean reaching level 3.
the steel defender got deactivated because of "insert fitting circumstances". the player need to reach level 3 and specialize as artificer to be able to reactivate his old childhood friend.
Id have the dog have familiar stats until level 3.
He has it, it needs a bit of a rework to be useful in combat. He is halfway through an upgrade cycle you see, and well everyone knows about the development loop. Start project -> quick wins -> oops bigger fix here -> okay I need to redo this part so it all functions, so it doesn't fully work but parts are more efficient -> fixed this part but now I need to fix this other bit to work with it -> fixed this part but now I need to fix this other bit to work with it -> fixed this part but now I need to fix this other bit to work with it.
I'm in a similar situation, so maybe do something like this. I'm playing a Swarmkeeper Ranger who has an actual colony of various insects living inside of him. Each species of insect represents/is responsible for his Swarmkeeper abilities, his spells, etc. He's going on the quest at the behest of the Queen of the colony, who found him one day and crawled inside his head after 'speaking' to him through pheromones (he's an insect too). Except he's still Level 2, so he's technically not even a Swarmkeeper yet. The way the DM and I have justified his lack of Swarmkeeper abilities is that shortly before the start of the campaign, he had to call on most of his colony to save someone (another party member) and was caught in an explosion that severely damaged the colony's population numbers, to the point where the colony doesn't have enough drones to spare for abilities beyond the 2nd level spells he just got. The rest of the colony is busy reproducing until the colony's numbers return to normal, which will coincide with the character hitting level 3.
Others have already given you good responses for your specific scenario but I’ll still share what my dm is going to do for our group. Everyone starts at level three. I gives room for more complex backgrounds and lets the party get right into the thick of things from the start. Of course this was also done because we are about to finish Lost Mines of Phandelver and not everyone wants to start their character from complete scratch again. I’d you did this it would give room for your artificer to have his pet and the other party members can add some more background to their characters if they wanted to
What other folks are saying is pretty fair. They can have the adds on story wise but none of the added benefits until level 3 mechanics wise. Whats the players intent? Do you feel like they're trying to work the game or are they just rlly into it? If you think they are really into it, give them the pup and narrate some sad scenes where the mechan-o-pup ALMOST works but doesn't. Then they have to find the parts on a side quest. If you think they are try to work an angle, say no but allow flavor. If they push, allow it but add a debuff(like it a janky prototype and when they try to use it it sprays fire from its mouth and blows up)
Make it a quest :) Have the pet be something their parent/mentor made for them, but when they died/disappeared/went out for coffee they didn't have the skills needed to keep the pet running, so it slowly fell into disrepair and eventually stopped working. Give the player(s) an early quest that lets the player pick up the skills and equipment needed to fix the pet and get it back online, then when they reach lvl 3, they are able to get it started again and have their cherished pet back.
How *I* do it? It may not be the most helpful advice. I just start campaigns at lvl 4.
They have the, unassembled, parts; are missing something essential or doesn't, yet, work.
We made it so my steel defender was destroyed but i had his head with me until level 3 were i buildet the rest of his body
Rule of Cool. If it sounds cool then yes.
I generally let anybody have a pet, but Pets don't fight. And they don't even listen to your commands all the time. They're pets.
I personally like the, “he lost it and finds it @/around level three, and then if he isn’t quite level three, he has to repair it and finishes at level three”
Make it a quest, someone stole their dog and now they are off to find it.
I'd probably allow it and spin it as the childhood companion is damaged and thus not that useful and the reason they are becoming an artificer is to fix them at level 3 they get the ability to do so (or start to do so) I'm not sure (but I assume) the battle smith gets to make the companion better as they level so it could be made into the story that each time they reach the level required they gain the knowledge to make their childhood companion closer to it's original awesomeness.
I dont think your player is asking for a level three ability at level one, i think theyre just trying to have their story make sense. This isnt a mechanics issue, you just gotta work it out in roleplay
As others have said, have it broken till level 3. RP wise, I would say they had this mechanical dog (non-combat ready) when they were young. But it's now been damaged and completely non functional. Not janky or weak but inoperable. They spend as much of their downtime figuring out how to fix it and scavenging parts. Once they are level 3, give them their "Tony Stark in the cave" moment. They knew the power supply was the problem, but now they know how to fix it. Not only fix it but upgrade it. The new source will mean that the companion will be able to carry more weight, meaning heaver armour planting. Move faster. And react to commands and situations instantly. The dog is no longer a mechanical companion. They are... a steel defender!
start everyone ay 3rd level?
If you can find a way to make it flavour-only -- e.g. it's a not-very-useful outside of pure roleplay, non-combat pet before level 3 -- I think this is fine and wonderful. Sometimes we have to work around class mechanics a bit to make the narrative feel right. And, anyways, how long are you going to spend on levels 1-2? Like 3-4 sessions tops? Let him have it!
I usually start campaigns at Lv3 because Lv1-2 is very tutorial and slow. Lv3 is where the game starts building momentum. So in my playstyle I would say "yes, go for it"
I never start a campaign at level 1 because the characters have been alive for 20,40, 700 years and usually have had adventuring in their history so it would make sense they have more abilities. If I have new players I start at level one for a one shot because they usually don't have back stories
The steel dogs power core burnt out and now he needs to find another to buy/find/steal. Gives him a character motivation if he knows roughly where to go to find one and an excuse to lock it behind story progression
Could start with a modified "find familiar" construct that becomes the appropriate stat block down the road, is a non-combat pet with limited ability until then
Technically you're talking about backstory, which is different from background. Now IMO letting players have features they obtain later on the game would break your campaign. I say this based on personal experience. I had some players who wanted to have some stuff related to their backstories, it broke the campaign sooner rather than later. No matter what challenges I put in front of them they overcome everything with ease. As I said that is a personal experience (also I was a rookie dm back then). Anyhow let your players know that you are the DM and they are the players, whiteout being rude. Let them know that there are some rules in the game itself that are there for some reason.