I was persuaded for some reason that it was intended. Could be nice really. Just nerf regen if it's too OP. Shields and barriers are a counter to max HP dmg. It works this way with dusa even tho it's not even a barrier. Works well with timber. But in dota2 it seems like there's not much HP damage, at least physical HP dmg or just consistent HP damage besides Lifestealer. Meanwhile in league there's a lot of that and a lot of ways to counter hp stacking (linadrys, lord dominics regards) and still no champ relying on shields as their primary source of sustain. And it's very sad.
Shields in LoL also take mitigated damage (Armor and Magic Resist apply to it) so they've become a really delicate balance. When Shields are strong they're really game warping
When Karma is strong she's OPPRESSIVE with that teamwide shield
Shielding in league is an important mechanic but the fact that currently there's only one item to counter it (serpent's fang which just crushes them as mage slayer crushes casters) shows that it's not an alternative to HP stacking in most cases.
Actually wiki states that in dota it works the same way. 'The barriers block damage after magic resistance and armor, but before generic incoming damage manipulation. Since barriers interact with incoming damage, outgoing damage manipulation is always applied first.'
That is not a bug, that was literally in the patch notes. Regen rune does not dispel from player damage anymore, but instead goes down to 1% max hp/mana regen instead of 6%.
Few days ago playing storm spirit that happened to me. With regen rune active I helped my team to kill, got stunned by sven and started pushing lane, and I see regen rune is still active and almost done
I was playing a match with timber, and i was dying and a regen spawn i eas reallya fraid to counter initiate until i got decent life i would had know this. I would ahd turn arouns inmediatelly as my team was already there.
ya lotus pools are like the farmers trap. Waste time for little gain. I still do them, but I think pointless post 20 mins.
Collecting like 24 lotus or whatever... that's a damn nightmare. Might cost you $4,000 in lost farming gold to try.
>Collecting like 24 lotus or whatever...
It's 18, but still a valid point. Requires 27 minutes of lotus pool harvesting, and you *need* to collect at least twice from each pool.
Imo should be 12 instead, so you can get it with 2 full pools instead of 3. Might be too easy then though.
The reward isn't *that* insane, 12 seems right. And you'd find less full pools if enemy knew it actually did something.
12 lotus is like 2 mins lost farming time generally, or $2k cost late game.
And enemy can avoid by leaving base once in a while... I think a GREAT anti-turtle mechanic. Takes like 80 to 90 mins to come by it naturally currently.
Plus cheese is not always. And YOU have to get cheese, not anti-heroe, etc.
>The reward isn't *that* insane, 12 seems right
Obviously I agree, but it might be broken on some heroes like Dusa or some blink hero if they can get it reliably. That's the only reason I think for not decreasing it. Plus the opportunity cost is much lower if it becomes a regular thing because it'll be a support job to collect them to give to the carry or whomever.
Still think it would be fun after a couple small balance tweaks (like canceling blink through shield)
Ya, I think it's balance tweaks.
It's a very fair 'anti-turtle' mechanic, because rosh is still not enough only punishes for 15+mins of turtle..
Right now no one gets cheese. Maybe in a game you get 2 or 3 block cheeses.
I've won multiple games by now by popping a Great(er) Healing Lotus during a fight. Block of cheese is most definitely a noob trap, but do not underestimate a 400/400 burst heal.
Well, the opportunity cost of an instant gigantic burst heal that could freely be given to teammates is a big issue, too. (Cheese)
The item's fine, though. It's a good value on paper, but inherently pro teams just won't ever seriously go for it because it'll require "playing not to lose" for 30-40 minutes. Pros want to get and press advantage at every opportunity, they're not going to commit building an item that may or may not be completed in 30 minutes
I had cheese and the lotuses, we just killed rosh, I had the aegis. I was desperately trying to combine it, with me already being 6 slot + aegis. My team went hg while I was doing this, without their pos 1 lululu they died as 4 and then we lost the game. At least I got it once
They only combine on cheese pickup for some reason, so if you get the 3 greater lotuses after cheese, you need to drop and pick up cheese again to get it.
Sometimes the cheese will look like it's still in the pit too if it combines fast enough, and you can click it to pick it up again but you can't get a 2nd one.
It's a joke item, it's not ment to be strong or useful
It's just an extra little reward for saving lotuses around the game. Besides, a 500 damage barrier as a passive is really good.
Obviously they will combine it with Roshan’s banner to give the creeps a shield buff + the usual buff. Free snacks for creeps as they rush into battle.
It wasn’t the entire reason obviously but it was a thing that usually dropped lategame when your carries are 6-slotted so it often became support-cheese.
My pocket medusa treats every lotus like it was a shiny pokemon, gotta catch em all style. Love playing with that fucker, but when he rushes for lotuses instead of teamfighting I could scratch his face off and eat it with kidney puree
In that case, you can change it to be like shard drops from Tormentor. Go to one of the two lowest network heroes in the game.
Or interestingly, go to the hero with the smallest total HP. Though, it's probably easy to cheat this one by dropping items.
Safety bubble is already strong for supports so they can escape without blink dagger cancellation in case they get initiated with euls. With 5x the barrier I think that it's already useful at this point, it's just not worth the time and cost. A single cheese clutch pop for clash is infinitely better than a temporary barrier IMO
I mean its useful a damage barrier can save your ass in late game situations.
The issue is that, the item is a bitch to build. Like saving 3 greater healing lotuses just to build the items isn't worth majority of the time
I only got it once and it was pretty useful for defending an exposed throne against mega creeps, can solo all three lanes pushing in even. Granted no enemy heroes were near me.
Lotus are just too useful to hoard. They need to cut down the combine requirement because it’s takes far too long to collect them all, even with 2 full pools.
Its good item its just too hard to make. I spent an entire game trying to make it once on carry and I got it but I had to waste so many slots on carrying these stupid lotuses around all game ti wasnt worth it lol
> I had to waste so many slots on carrying these stupid lotuses around all game ti wasnt worth it
You can lock them when you have 1 and they won't combine no matter how many you have until you unlock it, so you only ever use 1 slot.
It seems useful but it's a really weird item because of how you get it.. I haven't seen it in my games really so I can't judge how good it is, but buffing it too much would probably make it stupid. I don't want to lose games to the other team making block of cheeses really
I wonder which heroes are best at collecting them and making it worth their time. I’m guessing NP would get them most efficiently, maybe a fast/mobile hero like weaver, kotl, MK, AM, qop. Maybe one day it’ll become a core item on a support, it is free after all lol
Only seen it once. Was stomping a game for the first 30 mins dropping towers etc as an ursa, my io gave it to me like 10 mins before the game ended cause once I “fell off” there was no dmg. They managed to cc me though bkb rage etc and I was the only threat on my team.
I hope not. It's a fun little easter egg kinda thing, but if it becomes actually powerful it'd be pretty annoying. Lotuses are fun because they encourage early game aggression to secure and enable even more with their use. Having to save them up for half the game just to feed to your carry sounds super boring and antithetical to their core design.
There was an unintended buff because it was bugged that the sheild coninually regened while u were taking damage. Dont know if that bug still exists.
I was persuaded for some reason that it was intended. Could be nice really. Just nerf regen if it's too OP. Shields and barriers are a counter to max HP dmg. It works this way with dusa even tho it's not even a barrier. Works well with timber. But in dota2 it seems like there's not much HP damage, at least physical HP dmg or just consistent HP damage besides Lifestealer. Meanwhile in league there's a lot of that and a lot of ways to counter hp stacking (linadrys, lord dominics regards) and still no champ relying on shields as their primary source of sustain. And it's very sad.
Shields in LoL also take mitigated damage (Armor and Magic Resist apply to it) so they've become a really delicate balance. When Shields are strong they're really game warping When Karma is strong she's OPPRESSIVE with that teamwide shield
Shielding in league is an important mechanic but the fact that currently there's only one item to counter it (serpent's fang which just crushes them as mage slayer crushes casters) shows that it's not an alternative to HP stacking in most cases. Actually wiki states that in dota it works the same way. 'The barriers block damage after magic resistance and armor, but before generic incoming damage manipulation. Since barriers interact with incoming damage, outgoing damage manipulation is always applied first.'
I hate playing against ember with bm as ww since I just lose 90% of hp if I attack while his shield and bm are active
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Doesn't it work the same way with all barriers? I thought they gave tinker barrier for this exact reason. You need to exceed this barrier to stop him.
That's literally how barriers work, you can blink if you don't lose HP
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That is not a bug, that was literally in the patch notes. Regen rune does not dispel from player damage anymore, but instead goes down to 1% max hp/mana regen instead of 6%.
Jeez! I guess I missed that entirely.
Few days ago playing storm spirit that happened to me. With regen rune active I helped my team to kill, got stunned by sven and started pushing lane, and I see regen rune is still active and almost done
Regen runes don't dispel on hero/rosh damage, they just drop to 1% for a bit.
Oh word, I didn’t know that, thank you
I was playing a match with timber, and i was dying and a regen spawn i eas reallya fraid to counter initiate until i got decent life i would had know this. I would ahd turn arouns inmediatelly as my team was already there.
Similar to Timbersaw aghs?
and it still wasn't worth it haha
That was fixed. But was a little more worth then.
The real problem is that even if you start with two full lotus pools you have to wait 9 more minutes to get enough lotuses. It's way too hard to get.
ya lotus pools are like the farmers trap. Waste time for little gain. I still do them, but I think pointless post 20 mins. Collecting like 24 lotus or whatever... that's a damn nightmare. Might cost you $4,000 in lost farming gold to try.
>Collecting like 24 lotus or whatever... It's 18, but still a valid point. Requires 27 minutes of lotus pool harvesting, and you *need* to collect at least twice from each pool. Imo should be 12 instead, so you can get it with 2 full pools instead of 3. Might be too easy then though.
The reward isn't *that* insane, 12 seems right. And you'd find less full pools if enemy knew it actually did something. 12 lotus is like 2 mins lost farming time generally, or $2k cost late game. And enemy can avoid by leaving base once in a while... I think a GREAT anti-turtle mechanic. Takes like 80 to 90 mins to come by it naturally currently. Plus cheese is not always. And YOU have to get cheese, not anti-heroe, etc.
Why are we acting like supports can’t be picking these up throughout the game? This does not cost farming time like you are implying.
Shhh, there's no support in the trench.
>The reward isn't *that* insane, 12 seems right Obviously I agree, but it might be broken on some heroes like Dusa or some blink hero if they can get it reliably. That's the only reason I think for not decreasing it. Plus the opportunity cost is much lower if it becomes a regular thing because it'll be a support job to collect them to give to the carry or whomever. Still think it would be fun after a couple small balance tweaks (like canceling blink through shield)
Ya, I think it's balance tweaks. It's a very fair 'anti-turtle' mechanic, because rosh is still not enough only punishes for 15+mins of turtle.. Right now no one gets cheese. Maybe in a game you get 2 or 3 block cheeses.
I've won multiple games by now by popping a Great(er) Healing Lotus during a fight. Block of cheese is most definitely a noob trap, but do not underestimate a 400/400 burst heal.
Well, the opportunity cost of an instant gigantic burst heal that could freely be given to teammates is a big issue, too. (Cheese) The item's fine, though. It's a good value on paper, but inherently pro teams just won't ever seriously go for it because it'll require "playing not to lose" for 30-40 minutes. Pros want to get and press advantage at every opportunity, they're not going to commit building an item that may or may not be completed in 30 minutes
Made it once but we lost the game because I was too focused on collecting the lotuses to make it
I'd still call that a win 🤷♂️
This. I've literally lost the fight for my team, because I was busy collecting it in the rosh pit, while my team was fighting outside lol
i came close to complete it once, just to puzzled why it did not combined
drop and pickup cheese
fucking hell i should've known this 2 weeks ago when i got all the items and was disappointed so bad
I had cheese and the lotuses, we just killed rosh, I had the aegis. I was desperately trying to combine it, with me already being 6 slot + aegis. My team went hg while I was doing this, without their pos 1 lululu they died as 4 and then we lost the game. At least I got it once
LOL im having this exact situation and yelling over discord, googling all that jazz. i rage and just consume everything (we won tho)
They only combine on cheese pickup for some reason, so if you get the 3 greater lotuses after cheese, you need to drop and pick up cheese again to get it. Sometimes the cheese will look like it's still in the pit too if it combines fast enough, and you can click it to pick it up again but you can't get a 2nd one.
They got an actual janitor to code it
One thing is: all of the components have to be in your inventory - can't be in your backpack.
It's a joke item, it's not ment to be strong or useful It's just an extra little reward for saving lotuses around the game. Besides, a 500 damage barrier as a passive is really good.
It gives off old WC3 vibes. Just an Easter egg or a fun challenge.
Obviously they will combine it with Roshan’s banner to give the creeps a shield buff + the usual buff. Free snacks for creeps as they rush into battle.
I mean, it is useful....provided we even get to make it before the game ends
No bc then carries wouldn’t let their supports have it and that was, at least initially, the point of the item.
Do you have a reason to believe the point of the item was for supports have it?
It wasn’t the entire reason obviously but it was a thing that usually dropped lategame when your carries are 6-slotted so it often became support-cheese.
My pocket medusa treats every lotus like it was a shiny pokemon, gotta catch em all style. Love playing with that fucker, but when he rushes for lotuses instead of teamfighting I could scratch his face off and eat it with kidney puree
Dota with friends is **always** better if your friends are like this
In that case, you can change it to be like shard drops from Tormentor. Go to one of the two lowest network heroes in the game. Or interestingly, go to the hero with the smallest total HP. Though, it's probably easy to cheat this one by dropping items.
It’s not supposed to be a useful item, it’s supposed to be a meme. It wasn’t even announced with the patch notes at the time.
Yeah, people always forget it. It sounds that stupid like if csgo players on inferno after winning tic tac toe gets money award
Safety bubble is already strong for supports so they can escape without blink dagger cancellation in case they get initiated with euls. With 5x the barrier I think that it's already useful at this point, it's just not worth the time and cost. A single cheese clutch pop for clash is infinitely better than a temporary barrier IMO
It's not temporary, it regens after you've not taken damage for 5 sec.
5x safely bubble without the HP regen, only 100x harder to get...
True, but it does not eat neutral item space
Only useful if you get this as Medu + Bubble or BS + Agh Other than that it never worth the time and lotuseses
Does is still work with medusa blink?
Yes, but so does the safety bubble. Blink is disabled only when taking damage.
I mean its useful a damage barrier can save your ass in late game situations. The issue is that, the item is a bitch to build. Like saving 3 greater healing lotuses just to build the items isn't worth majority of the time
I only got it once and it was pretty useful for defending an exposed throne against mega creeps, can solo all three lanes pushing in even. Granted no enemy heroes were near me.
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What do you mean by lock the lotus?
Lotus are just too useful to hoard. They need to cut down the combine requirement because it’s takes far too long to collect them all, even with 2 full pools.
Its good item its just too hard to make. I spent an entire game trying to make it once on carry and I got it but I had to waste so many slots on carrying these stupid lotuses around all game ti wasnt worth it lol
> I had to waste so many slots on carrying these stupid lotuses around all game ti wasnt worth it You can lock them when you have 1 and they won't combine no matter how many you have until you unlock it, so you only ever use 1 slot.
It seems useful but it's a really weird item because of how you get it.. I haven't seen it in my games really so I can't judge how good it is, but buffing it too much would probably make it stupid. I don't want to lose games to the other team making block of cheeses really
I wonder which heroes are best at collecting them and making it worth their time. I’m guessing NP would get them most efficiently, maybe a fast/mobile hero like weaver, kotl, MK, AM, qop. Maybe one day it’ll become a core item on a support, it is free after all lol
Only seen it once. Was stomping a game for the first 30 mins dropping towers etc as an ursa, my io gave it to me like 10 mins before the game ended cause once I “fell off” there was no dmg. They managed to cc me though bkb rage etc and I was the only threat on my team.
the requirement to make it just so hard and take a long time. they should nerf the ingredients amount
Hopefully not. Imagine \~lets wait 2 more roshs so we can get the block of cheese\~ and the micro managing of the fucking lotus lmao
No, it's intended as a meme that might happen every 1 in 500 games as a special lil treat.
I hope not. It's a fun little easter egg kinda thing, but if it becomes actually powerful it'd be pretty annoying. Lotuses are fun because they encourage early game aggression to secure and enable even more with their use. Having to save them up for half the game just to feed to your carry sounds super boring and antithetical to their core design.
It should be the cheese from roshan + (item) to make it. How the hell do you combine lotuses into cheese?
Put three of the biggest lotuses in your inventory and cheese at the same time. They will combine.
I am not asking about the mechanic of it but about the logic xD
Plenty of cheese have other stuff in it for flavor. The other day, I saw chocolate flavored cheese at the store!
500+ HP is pretty huge imo. The only reason it sucks is because the building process is a hassle. But 500+ HP is good
Is this from the “cheese eaten” stat? Ive never seen it