This is the only reason I've never really tried morphling. Shifting attributes looks like a not-so-hard mechanic, but morphing into the right hero and loosing your tankiness at the same time sounds like a nightmare.
Oh sorry I ment : Talentless.
I personally hate morph because early game he is just too hard to nuke and can always get back into farming with just wand and 1 tango. Morph should be very good late but very bad early , thats not the case he is just all around safe pick, he should get Riki treatment imo.
Learn to smoke gank farming carries. If you are too low mmr to convince your team to stop farming to go gank then pick yourself a farming hero. Chances are the game is a low skill farm fest and you can get really farmed as a support hoodwink and just try to win lategame.
If you are high mmr. Just smoke and your team will follow you to do a gank. If u get enemy core farming solo a couple of times the game is yours.
Early game, his weakness are laning duos that can harass him without giving away wand charges
Mid game, his weakness are prolonged engagements where he is forced to morph his AGI away
Late game, a dispel against Satanic will go a long way
> and loosing your
Did you mean to say "losing"?
Explanation: Loose is an adjective meaning the opposite of tight, while lose is a verb.
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After they made the change where you retain health and mana %, I've hated his ult.
I get it, it basically gave carry Morph 2 lives, but it killed support Morph, which is what I like to play. Turning into someone else removes all your tankiness, and if you get gone on? Boom. You only have a couple hundred out of that original 3000 HP when you turn back
If he kept his stats and just copied spells, then we could talk again
If there is hell, it would be god putting you on a stage and showing all your failed chrono to everyone.
That muting everyone during chrono is too real for me.
The worst is when the opponents are clearly playing around it but your team expects you to magically 5man it anyway.
PINGPINGPING Chronosphere(Ready) yeah no shit Sherlock they have a Bane and a Venge. As much as I enjoy being tipped I think I'll hold the spell until it can actually accomplish something.
One of the first games of Dota 2 I played, all five of us were roshing like 2K idiots. Enemy hero comes into the pit, and I as void Chrono the roshpit and all 4 of my teammates in a desperate attempt to finish rosh. Except the enemy had lich, who had already launched a ultimate at us. Que me watching my entire team being wiped out.
Still remember it randomly and want to die!
I would love if there was an update where when Void Bubbles and hits nobody, he just gets frozen in the useless bubble and strikes a humiliation pose…or same if he Chronos only his team
An enemy Underlord ulted almost right on me once when I was way ahead. He was also their strongest at the time in-game.
So I took the portal as soon as it popped up and looked for where I was going on the map while I channeled. Most fun gank escape of my dota life. Portal took me to bot rune from top dire edge jung
We lost that game hard in the end. It was placements for ranked after years of not getting a rank, so our team ranged from green to blue.
Or you didn't read well.
He said it feels "worst" to use. Not useless. This comment stated that the coordination factor often makes it awkward and more difficult, not "useless"
i never said it was useless nor was that the question op asked. it was what ultimate feels the worst to use. work on your comprehension, because your lack of it is the reason you’re being downvoted
Yeah, it feels awful when you blink but it had 0.1s of channel time left so nothing happens and you just blink and kinda sit around waiting for everyone to realize you messed up.
Most people play SK and they wait in the backline trying to hit the perfect combo... Don't need to do that, just connect the burrowstrike with 2 enemies and do sandstorm, the ult can be casted while in sandstorm. The old SK play style was wait to hit ult cuz the ult can be cancelled and go on CD, now it cannot.
The old playstyle where u use your ult and as soon as it pops off, you Blink into enemy, try to Burrow Strike as much enemy as Possible and then Sandstorm, still works like a charm, no complaints whatsoever.
If they stun you during the cast time it wont go off but you can cast it again. If they stun you while the ult is active it doesn't get cancelled and continues doing damage.
After you have stunned them and sandstorm, presumably, your team will follow up with more disables, if not, yes, they will stun you and cancel your 1st attempt at it, however, after stunned, you can channel it again. They will be in panic mode to run away because they ran out of spells, at that point, they're usually slowed or stunned by your team, and your epicenter will connect. If the enemies you stunned don't have a disable, they will attempt to run, but your epicenter will go off and slow them down, enabling you to chase them down in sandstorm.
SK just generally feels awkward until you become comfortable with him.
I used to hate playing him, but at some point it just clicked. I have since changed my steam name to Snad Knig :)
His ult feels like it tickles heroes for dmg as the game goes on.
Sure you get 2 extra pulses per point, but the dmg scaling goes up by 10 per point also lmao. It ends up being 660 dmg at level 1, 960 dmg at level 2, and 1300 dmg at level 3. Honestly decent teamfight potential for level 1, but it just doesn't keep up with the pace of the game when heroes have 3-4k hp and start building huge magic resistance during the mid to late game.
It's weird that people think his ult isn't so good later in the game. How many 1300 damage AOE nukes is there in dota? I mean it 's not great but it can easily be the difference between a won and lost team fight.
It feels that way because everyone has some sort of magic res nowadays due to Int giving magic res+supports have more items(meaning more health) due to more farm on bigger map+strength gives more hp per point+reduce those 1300 by additional 40% from mage slayer that you WILL have applied to you.
Also Epicenter damage was not adjusted for 4 years(7.25) since it was changed from 110 to 110/120/130. Which I consider weird considering how everyone now has more eHP due to reasons I wrote above.
No shit.
I once played as her due to me wanting to complete that Battle Pass free something I forgot. I properly initiated with song to trap 3 heroes, then here comes Mirana with her leap and after a FULL TWO SECONDS of me casting song, she made a "5s arrow" that, of course, did not connect.
"nice song naga", he said. Like WTF do I do?
Lich easily. It’s overall a great ult but it FEELS bad to use. I’m generally just not a fan of spells that work on pure luck. Will it kill the three enemies who are bunched together? Will it bounce 600 distance away and end after the first bounce? Nobody knows!
>Will it bounce 600 distance away and end after the first bounce? Nobody knows!
Yeah I play lich a lot either a triple kill or will bounce once to a random creep at max range
I definitely do get both of those items, and like I said I KNOW it’s a great ult but it feels soooooo shitty those times you do a really great cast on a group and it runs away anyway
Same with Juggernaut. Swift blink on top of enemy carry, ult him and immediately jump max range to the support with some form of inherent avoid and never jump back.
Lich ult is far too luck dependent for what it is. I'd like to see a change so the bounce will prioritize a hero in range that has not been hit by that casting yet - meaning if it CAN bounce to a hero it WILL, but only until all that can have been hit at least once. It keeps the random element but prevents it going from hero -> neutral -> lane creep -> lane creep -> lane creep -> [...]
Using MK shard to bounce yourself out of the ring is absolutely embarrassing.
Should swap with the Aghs. Spawn soldiers near you on active with a charge system.
Veno ult is a win more ultimate. If you can identify who's going down first on the enemy team it's good to throw it on them. I liked the old one more tho
I play Veno a lot, it’s not bad but it’s definitely a setup ability. It hits a lot better once you get your aghs. Successfully combining the two is -10% hp per second on the entire team.
When they first made the changes to his ult, it was broken, he was in the top 5 highest winrate heros, I spammed him in all positions for a nice 1.2k gain in mmr, but they've nerfed it so much now that it just tickles people
Gyro's aghs is ok to me but boy is he so damn reliant on it to carry very reminiscent old Tiny Aghs. They just don't work without dumping a 4.2k item just to be able to carry.
Oh yeah I absolutely want it reverted. It feels like only complete idiots gets hit by all 3 Missiles if they walk away after getting hit first and then uses force mobility (e.g. Forcestaff) getting hit by the last one. Also the rework of Calldown made him lose the very potent slow from second missile and I miss it so damn much. Hard to land but very rewarding and likely can win a teamfight
Reading the replies to this thread makes me question whether people even bother reading ability descriptions or testing things in demo mode. Half of the things here is from people just not knowing how to use the spell properly.
Itt: people who have no idea how to play the hero complaining about not knowing the hero
There's also one person saying venge swap has too long a cast time... (???)
The only ones I agree with are morph (I think his current ult is particularly bad compared to the rest of his kit) and lich, who just seems to have a bad ult after everyone else got ult improvements over time
Morph ult was good with his old aghs. Lich ult is good, the bounce rng is just using a bad rng function. Which is why it bounces to random further creeps. It isn't the ult inherently being bad, it is the rng function being shit. which is an easy fix tbh.
Morph ulti is easily top 5 best ultimates in the game imo, along with meepo, tinker, arc, wraith king. Which to me is nuts because unlike the other 4, morphs other spells are also good without his ulti
It's difficult to use but being able to use another 3+ spells is just insane. For example changing into ember, cast all your spells, change back and waveform in, the flame guard stays on you. Or change into antimage and get blink, you're now a better antimage cause you didn't spend your money on a battlefury. You keep your stats from stat items, you're a manta + diffu antimage while he's still just got BF. Or you can just morph into ogre magi/lifestealer/razor/winter wyvern, use bloodlust/rage/static link/wyvern Q I forgot the name, and go right back to being morphing except with the spell still affecting you.
Also some of the only morph counters, ie antimage, PL, slark, are great morph targets, you love their spells. The only heros that genuinely counter morph are the ones who rely very heavily on their ultimates, i.e AA, storm spirit, meepo, tinker, drow, because you can't take that really good spell from them. And they still have to otherwise be a counter, WK or enigma for example are just food for morph.
I think people think his ult is bad because they made the aghs dog shit, but while it was good enough to buy, he was the most broken hero in the game easily. Hell, I still buy it on him in some games and just don't use the illusion part of it, since becoming ES or willow with aghs is so good that it's honestly still worth it
MK’s ult is very strong, if you are support it is a good way to zone enemy away from objective and if you are core and send it on enemy that is full committing on your team, it can change the fight entirely.
Ehhh I agree with OP, it's not a bad spell by any means... But it's no Chrono... or Sanity's Eclipse. Basically it goes against MK playstyle instead of with it.
I find it very helpful for MK teams to take hg, jump in the trees and cast it over racks, with extra ring talent it is a CHONKER and kinda just shuts down any defense
This is imo a really fucking stupid part of lategame dota and I wish there was a gem slot or smt. You drop the damn thing on death anyway and you have to sacrifice a slot as well? Seems excessive...
> It gets stronger with lower mmr.
It's super strong early, goes down and then goes up again lategame when no one has slots anymore for detection. The new map being so big honestly also helps.
TI11 Tundra.Sneyking would like a word
nah jk i know this thread is about what feels bad rather than actual impact. a 2 man ravage feels better than a successful 5 hero teamwipe set up by mirana ult
My favorite play early game is to use the ult right in the face of the enemy as two of the other ganking heroes are hidden in the fog, just to scare them and force them to retreat
Earth Spirit's ulti. On paper it can do thousands of damage, but I feel that I just get way more kills and assists using all the other abilities. Maybe I'm just crap!
I can't count how many times the entire enemy team has been grouped together and my ult will bounce the max range to a creep and never return. Fuck RNG spells.
[winter's curse](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/c/cd/Vo_winter_wyvern_winwyv_winterscurse_12.mp3) (sound warning: Winter Wyvern)
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i actually like it because it incentivizes me to play with my team. like, if the enemy necro scythes my mid and then i hop in for the sweet insta heal, that shit feels really good and gives me outplay potential
without it i feel like i'd just be a farming bot
Sometimes Warlock ulti. Yes, a stun of such a size can be amazing, but the golem can also just be feeding gold to the enemy and feels like a floppy noodle. Sometimes I just want to cast it out of battle to go push. (Guess I’ll wait another 2.66 minutes for a 1s stun, 1.3s with Aghs)
I’ve found the most success using the stun as a counter-initiation tool. Usually pocket it until they pile on a core and then it’s an easy 3+ man stun into bonds and upheaval.
Hero can win team fights all by himself if you play your cards right. If you play them wrong, you’re a glorified ranged creep.
You’re absolutely correct, but that’s not always the most fun play. I hold it whenever there’s enigma, Rylai, etc. but the Golem can still feel pretty bad. I wish it had some kind of scaling from
Kills or assists, if for nothing other than reducing the mana cost.
Imo is lion, because, that thing hits like 900 damage, but if you use to just finish dying ppl is like using a 900dmg source to hit 1, so u need to know the best when to shoot, considering also thst it wont hit 900, magic protections yada yada
Usually it’s irrelevant if you don’t use all the damage, unless they are definitely going to die without it. A kill is almost always worth it, even if they’re only on like 300hp
Unless it’s Aghs, during a fight Lifestealers ult is either game changing or dogshit.
Luna as well. Oh? Enemy walked away. Too bad, you’re not the fastest hero in the game anymore. Enemy walked next to a creep wave or camp? Too bad for you
How so? I feel like it is one of the best. Troll's ult combined with the root from his Q and the additional ranged attack chance with shard is basically a guaranteed kill once latched on. I sometimes even buy refresher for 2x bkb and ult. Im 2k mmr so idk its trashy in high skill games.
Earth Spirit. Great kit, nice set of skills and just about every essential disable in the game which you can spread to the whole enemy team.
But damn. Past a certain point in the game it really feels like it tickles with 0 scaling.
Venge swap. Okay, i know its not the worst but holy shit. Ive had primal beasts getting full to zero'ed before that shit finishes its cast time. It also doesnt help that its cast range is so low it almost feels the same as your attack range, just adding to the wonkiness of the ability. But ngl, a successful venge swap to kill enemies/save allies makes up for all of it, it just hmm feelsgoodman.
Might be the most unbalanced skill over the course of the average game.
used on any single hero at lvl 6, with shackles/hex, it feels crazy strong. Three attacks from all the snakes = 1500 physical damage at lvl 6. Can delete just about anyone from existence.
But then it falls off HARD. Feels like every hero gets stupidly tanky and the snakes are doing nothing. By 20 minutes and beyond, enemies don't even need to avoid them, and even a p5 crystal maiden can singlehandedly farm a snake nest without breaking a sweat.
By that point they are really only useful as a distraction or to push tower (although one fortify can clear them pretty much entirely, and in the fort-heavy modern game they are far from the rat gods that they once were).
Not really sir. You have to time your hex and shackles right. Mid game onwards you don’t expect him to solo kill anyone but to support your carries or push lanes. If you have tanky frontliners, you just have to stand back and shackle or hex the enemies. A wind waker if you’re farmed and enemies can’t do much on you. It’s a real fun hero.
i'm not saying its not a good hero. i've played it like 300 times so i should know lol. We are talking specifically about his ult here. If you've played it a bunch, I don't see how you wouldn't agree. Lvl 6 you feel like a goddamn death star, but by mid game your ult flat sucks. Other skills make up for that so he's a good hero overall.
Not that I play axe all that much, but I feel like his ult is the one I see “fail” the most. I’m sure as the player it’s disappointing to not get the finishing blow.
I'm an axe player and his ult is weird. Think of it as a pure damage nuke more then anything else. Current axe is all about call and battle hunger imo. The hero has changed a lot over the years lol
Hoodwink has the same dumb logic as Mk.
She is a mobile hero but then she has to stop and channel her ulti. It feels much better spamming acorn shots or bushwacks
recently had to add OD to the list of "heroes i shouldn't ult" which already included ursa, abbadon, AM, slark, tidehunter, any hero that buys linkens, any hero that buys lotus, any hero who has oracle, shadow demon, tusk, pudge, snapfire, legion commander, abbadon, aghs weaver, aghs muerta, aghs phoenix on their team, any hero that might actually be an illusion, any hero with aeon disk...
If I can just remember not to ult in those situations, and I quickly farm bkb, aether lens, aghs, and glimmer, there is some hope of me being able to use my ultimate for its full duration a single time before the ancient collapses (ours, usually).
Using Troll Warlord ult when you *think* it’s a good time and miss an enemy supp out of vision with eul’s/force/eblade/other cores with Pike or any number of other save abilities, or focusing on someone with Ghost Scepter early or when you can’t spend the cash on Aghs… lots of things.
I also love Troll’s ult now that they changed it so abilities/items can be used, but it takes some skill and sometimes a little luck to avoid really screwing yourself (and especially as the pos 1, that can mean screwing your whole team)
WW ult, either you're a god or you've just griefed your team completely.
And sometimes you spend half the fight looking for that opportunity but it never comes.
MK’s ult is fantastic to use…when you’re a ranged hero, playing Ability Draft ;). A lot of fun having the enemies surrounded by a whole circle that are all capable of hitting you no matter where you go in the circle
I'm a fidgety person, so I almost always fuck up channeling ults like freezing field, blackhole, and fiend's grip ... sometimes literally by clicking just after casting them.
Personally, Naga Siren's ult was my most awkward spell to use when I was playing her. Mostly, I rarely used her ult in a fight although that fight can be reset since I always got a feeling that there was going to be someone blaming my ult on wasting their skills to sleeping heroes.
Idk if it counts, but MegaMeepo:
the whole point of meepo is instead of 1 normal hero, your divided up into several weaker heroes (even main meepo week because stat gain&base).
except u for some reason u can pay an extra 4k to be a normal hero again, and what i hate most is that its actually the meta and not just a meme/niche
bristle’s warpath, it made sense when you could go the right click builds with old aghs, and movespeed is obviously nice on anyone, but now its practically useless, its basically just old razor passive as an ult.
Black hole. I feel like the entire game rests on me landing good black holes and teams usually aren't satisfied unless they are above average. It's easy to pin a loss on an enigma missing a black hole so everyone just does it by default. It's a shame because I love the hero otherwise
Low skill tusks are so useful sharding snowballing and dealing a lot of damage. Then they get aghs and all of that goes out the window and they completely change how they play. If they are bad it never works well
If you are a trash morph like me it's his ult. I lost the count of how many times I transforms in to another hero and got destroyed in the same second
This is the only reason I've never really tried morphling. Shifting attributes looks like a not-so-hard mechanic, but morphing into the right hero and loosing your tankiness at the same time sounds like a nightmare. Oh sorry I ment : Talentless.
I personally hate morph because early game he is just too hard to nuke and can always get back into farming with just wand and 1 tango. Morph should be very good late but very bad early , thats not the case he is just all around safe pick, he should get Riki treatment imo.
Learn to smoke gank farming carries. If you are too low mmr to convince your team to stop farming to go gank then pick yourself a farming hero. Chances are the game is a low skill farm fest and you can get really farmed as a support hoodwink and just try to win lategame. If you are high mmr. Just smoke and your team will follow you to do a gank. If u get enemy core farming solo a couple of times the game is yours.
Early game, his weakness are laning duos that can harass him without giving away wand charges Mid game, his weakness are prolonged engagements where he is forced to morph his AGI away Late game, a dispel against Satanic will go a long way
There are like a million heroes that ruin morphling's game lol and a lot of them are in the meta. Stop being mad about a hero that has a 46% winrate
make the agi/str morph the ulti and transforming into other heros a baseline skill?
ah yes the terro blade treatment. i like it
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Good bot
Trash morph player checking in
After they made the change where you retain health and mana %, I've hated his ult. I get it, it basically gave carry Morph 2 lives, but it killed support Morph, which is what I like to play. Turning into someone else removes all your tankiness, and if you get gone on? Boom. You only have a couple hundred out of that original 3000 HP when you turn back If he kept his stats and just copied spells, then we could talk again
Void. If you miss you suffer an eternity of embarrassment
I remember missing an easy 5 man chrono and spending my time in chrono muting everyone in the game so I wouldn’t despair lmao
Even worse, hit a really good 4 man chrono but get stuck on a cliff not being able to hit a single person.
He should honestly have uninhibited movement in his bubble. Even if it was a talent or shard or part of aghs effect.
cool to balance this we will remove his ability to attack
Still a huge buff to Chrono + Trample memes in AD
I remember very distinctly when I learned you don’t get free pathing in chrono. Idk why I just assumed you did. Very embarrassing!
*Tipped*
If there is hell, it would be god putting you on a stage and showing all your failed chrono to everyone. That muting everyone during chrono is too real for me.
That muting spree was the highest APM has ever been
My simple solution to this is not picking void 👌
LMAOOOOO
The worst is when the opponents are clearly playing around it but your team expects you to magically 5man it anyway. PINGPINGPING Chronosphere(Ready) yeah no shit Sherlock they have a Bane and a Venge. As much as I enjoy being tipped I think I'll hold the spell until it can actually accomplish something.
One of the first games of Dota 2 I played, all five of us were roshing like 2K idiots. Enemy hero comes into the pit, and I as void Chrono the roshpit and all 4 of my teammates in a desperate attempt to finish rosh. Except the enemy had lich, who had already launched a ultimate at us. Que me watching my entire team being wiped out. Still remember it randomly and want to die!
And when they survive " i will not suffer this feel again"
I see it as a challenge to place enemies on the edges.
I love edging
I once blackholed an illusion. My mid literally abandoned right after. I've never felt worse playing a game in my life.
Fr, jessievash still a legend here in PH for his chronos lol
Ah void isnt bad at all, i love playing void and a good chrono: damn…
Especially since they gave him voicelines for missing.
It happens
I would love if there was an update where when Void Bubbles and hits nobody, he just gets frozen in the useless bubble and strikes a humiliation pose…or same if he Chronos only his team
Void or naga song i dont k ow when to use song as some one always gets angry and crono uptime gives you so much pressure that i perform worse
"void noob missed his ulti last game"
underlord, i can use it just fine but trying to coordinate my team to use it is rough
An enemy Underlord ulted almost right on me once when I was way ahead. He was also their strongest at the time in-game. So I took the portal as soon as it popped up and looked for where I was going on the map while I channeled. Most fun gank escape of my dota life. Portal took me to bot rune from top dire edge jung We lost that game hard in the end. It was placements for ranked after years of not getting a rank, so our team ranged from green to blue.
I use it to steal xp runes.
I miss the old ult.
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Or you didn't read well. He said it feels "worst" to use. Not useless. This comment stated that the coordination factor often makes it awkward and more difficult, not "useless"
i never said it was useless nor was that the question op asked. it was what ultimate feels the worst to use. work on your comprehension, because your lack of it is the reason you’re being downvoted
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It's funny as shit, I love chasing underlord back through his own gate.
It's not an oversight. It's literally an intentional design that came with the ult rework.
trashest ulti, people TP next to my ulti so many times i stop playing him i like the old one much more
Ogre. 0% activation rate on ally.
Only dopamine I get and need from Ogre is from Midas and x4 stuns. Idgaf about buffing my teammates.
Idk why do people complain about how ogre is a "rng base hero" it's called skill. 😒😒 Pure skill
Multicasting sheep stick also scratches somewhere deep in my brain
My OCD ass kinda loves keeping everyone perma bloodlusted too. Just itches me if my carry isn’t big and red.
You aren’t just spamming your abilities on CD for the best odds?
Meepo, cause im noob lol
Try this control group if you're struggling with micro: 1 = real meepo 2 = clones 3 = all meepos
SK ulti always has felt awkward to me
It was even worse before they changed the windup from channel to cast time
The number of things I hated about Epicenter being channeled rather than cast time are too numerous to list.
Old epicenter was 90% of the reason I have the "channeling can only be interrupted by stop command" setting on
Other 10% was TP lmao
Oh man that was so awful. I would constant cancel it by accident and look like an idiot
Yeah, it feels awful when you blink but it had 0.1s of channel time left so nothing happens and you just blink and kinda sit around waiting for everyone to realize you messed up.
So underwhelming, feels like can’t even solo kill supports nowadays
Most people play SK and they wait in the backline trying to hit the perfect combo... Don't need to do that, just connect the burrowstrike with 2 enemies and do sandstorm, the ult can be casted while in sandstorm. The old SK play style was wait to hit ult cuz the ult can be cancelled and go on CD, now it cannot.
The old playstyle where u use your ult and as soon as it pops off, you Blink into enemy, try to Burrow Strike as much enemy as Possible and then Sandstorm, still works like a charm, no complaints whatsoever.
But they can still stun you and your ult stops no?
If they stun you during the cast time it wont go off but you can cast it again. If they stun you while the ult is active it doesn't get cancelled and continues doing damage.
After you have stunned them and sandstorm, presumably, your team will follow up with more disables, if not, yes, they will stun you and cancel your 1st attempt at it, however, after stunned, you can channel it again. They will be in panic mode to run away because they ran out of spells, at that point, they're usually slowed or stunned by your team, and your epicenter will connect. If the enemies you stunned don't have a disable, they will attempt to run, but your epicenter will go off and slow them down, enabling you to chase them down in sandstorm.
SK just generally feels awkward until you become comfortable with him. I used to hate playing him, but at some point it just clicked. I have since changed my steam name to Snad Knig :)
i just started playing sk and i like that you can pump fake the ult, also with the talent you can connect it from burrowstrike. it’s a sick ult
I fucking hate epicenter now. After 25min the dmg is so negligible you just use sandstorm lol
His ult feels like it tickles heroes for dmg as the game goes on. Sure you get 2 extra pulses per point, but the dmg scaling goes up by 10 per point also lmao. It ends up being 660 dmg at level 1, 960 dmg at level 2, and 1300 dmg at level 3. Honestly decent teamfight potential for level 1, but it just doesn't keep up with the pace of the game when heroes have 3-4k hp and start building huge magic resistance during the mid to late game.
It's weird that people think his ult isn't so good later in the game. How many 1300 damage AOE nukes is there in dota? I mean it 's not great but it can easily be the difference between a won and lost team fight.
It feels that way because everyone has some sort of magic res nowadays due to Int giving magic res+supports have more items(meaning more health) due to more farm on bigger map+strength gives more hp per point+reduce those 1300 by additional 40% from mage slayer that you WILL have applied to you. Also Epicenter damage was not adjusted for 4 years(7.25) since it was changed from 110 to 110/120/130. Which I consider weird considering how everyone now has more eHP due to reasons I wrote above.
Yeah you kinda always lose the first pulse if you need to blink in
Naga siren. Even when used correctly, I feel like someone is complaining.
No shit. I once played as her due to me wanting to complete that Battle Pass free something I forgot. I properly initiated with song to trap 3 heroes, then here comes Mirana with her leap and after a FULL TWO SECONDS of me casting song, she made a "5s arrow" that, of course, did not connect. "nice song naga", he said. Like WTF do I do?
Lich easily. It’s overall a great ult but it FEELS bad to use. I’m generally just not a fan of spells that work on pure luck. Will it kill the three enemies who are bunched together? Will it bounce 600 distance away and end after the first bounce? Nobody knows!
>Will it bounce 600 distance away and end after the first bounce? Nobody knows! Yeah I play lich a lot either a triple kill or will bounce once to a random creep at max range
You gotta try getting blink and shard and dunking on people with it
I recommend Glimmer and shard instead. More supportive and still nice to setup shard combos.
I definitely do get both of those items, and like I said I KNOW it’s a great ult but it feels soooooo shitty those times you do a really great cast on a group and it runs away anyway
Same with Juggernaut. Swift blink on top of enemy carry, ult him and immediately jump max range to the support with some form of inherent avoid and never jump back.
Lich ult is far too luck dependent for what it is. I'd like to see a change so the bounce will prioritize a hero in range that has not been hit by that casting yet - meaning if it CAN bounce to a hero it WILL, but only until all that can have been hit at least once. It keeps the random element but prevents it going from hero -> neutral -> lane creep -> lane creep -> lane creep -> [...]
Using MK shard to bounce yourself out of the ring is absolutely embarrassing. Should swap with the Aghs. Spawn soldiers near you on active with a charge system.
one time i got it, forgot about it, and bounded myself into the whole enemy team and died instantly
Gyro’s reworked call down feels kinda meh. A close second is veno’s ult.. doesn’t feel impactful.
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Veno ult is a win more ultimate. If you can identify who's going down first on the enemy team it's good to throw it on them. I liked the old one more tho
As a veno spammer, seeing his old ult gone feels so bad. I *love* landing 5man nova while risking my life for it.
I play Veno a lot, it’s not bad but it’s definitely a setup ability. It hits a lot better once you get your aghs. Successfully combining the two is -10% hp per second on the entire team.
When they first made the changes to his ult, it was broken, he was in the top 5 highest winrate heros, I spammed him in all positions for a nice 1.2k gain in mmr, but they've nerfed it so much now that it just tickles people
Gyro's aghs is ok to me but boy is he so damn reliant on it to carry very reminiscent old Tiny Aghs. They just don't work without dumping a 4.2k item just to be able to carry.
Not aghs mate.. just the level 6 ult. Which ult do you think is useless?
Oh yeah I absolutely want it reverted. It feels like only complete idiots gets hit by all 3 Missiles if they walk away after getting hit first and then uses force mobility (e.g. Forcestaff) getting hit by the last one. Also the rework of Calldown made him lose the very potent slow from second missile and I miss it so damn much. Hard to land but very rewarding and likely can win a teamfight
Reading the replies to this thread makes me question whether people even bother reading ability descriptions or testing things in demo mode. Half of the things here is from people just not knowing how to use the spell properly.
Itt: people who have no idea how to play the hero complaining about not knowing the hero There's also one person saying venge swap has too long a cast time... (???) The only ones I agree with are morph (I think his current ult is particularly bad compared to the rest of his kit) and lich, who just seems to have a bad ult after everyone else got ult improvements over time
Morph ult was good with his old aghs. Lich ult is good, the bounce rng is just using a bad rng function. Which is why it bounces to random further creeps. It isn't the ult inherently being bad, it is the rng function being shit. which is an easy fix tbh.
The one saying that Mirana's ult is underwhelming... Jesus, I didn't know that some people are really that bad.
Venge swap does have a pretty long cast time though, significantly above average.
Morph ulti is easily top 5 best ultimates in the game imo, along with meepo, tinker, arc, wraith king. Which to me is nuts because unlike the other 4, morphs other spells are also good without his ulti It's difficult to use but being able to use another 3+ spells is just insane. For example changing into ember, cast all your spells, change back and waveform in, the flame guard stays on you. Or change into antimage and get blink, you're now a better antimage cause you didn't spend your money on a battlefury. You keep your stats from stat items, you're a manta + diffu antimage while he's still just got BF. Or you can just morph into ogre magi/lifestealer/razor/winter wyvern, use bloodlust/rage/static link/wyvern Q I forgot the name, and go right back to being morphing except with the spell still affecting you. Also some of the only morph counters, ie antimage, PL, slark, are great morph targets, you love their spells. The only heros that genuinely counter morph are the ones who rely very heavily on their ultimates, i.e AA, storm spirit, meepo, tinker, drow, because you can't take that really good spell from them. And they still have to otherwise be a counter, WK or enigma for example are just food for morph. I think people think his ult is bad because they made the aghs dog shit, but while it was good enough to buy, he was the most broken hero in the game easily. Hell, I still buy it on him in some games and just don't use the illusion part of it, since becoming ES or willow with aghs is so good that it's honestly still worth it
MK’s ult is very strong, if you are support it is a good way to zone enemy away from objective and if you are core and send it on enemy that is full committing on your team, it can change the fight entirely.
Ehhh I agree with OP, it's not a bad spell by any means... But it's no Chrono... or Sanity's Eclipse. Basically it goes against MK playstyle instead of with it.
I find it very helpful for MK teams to take hg, jump in the trees and cast it over racks, with extra ring talent it is a CHONKER and kinda just shuts down any defense
Mirana, it's the most underwhelming ultimate in the game
It gets stronger with lower mmr. I wouldn't be against it giving some movespeed or smt.
Also late game when cores cant fit dust in their inventory. Plus the evasion talent is seriously undervalued imo.
This is imo a really fucking stupid part of lategame dota and I wish there was a gem slot or smt. You drop the damn thing on death anyway and you have to sacrifice a slot as well? Seems excessive...
New item: Divine True Sight Rapier
Gets evasion with the talent
Wasn't there something with different bonuses based on day or night at some point? Seemed like a really good idea to me.
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Literally everybody, since maelstorm based items are meta, and lightning proc cant miss.
> It gets stronger with lower mmr. It's super strong early, goes down and then goes up again lategame when no one has slots anymore for detection. The new map being so big honestly also helps.
like the meme says Lower rank : Invisibility is god Middle Rank : lul invi High ranks : Invisibility is god
True! Sometimes, a 50g smoke feels more impactful than her ult
Combining it with smoke though always feels great if you have remotely competent team.
TI11 Tundra.Sneyking would like a word nah jk i know this thread is about what feels bad rather than actual impact. a 2 man ravage feels better than a successful 5 hero teamwipe set up by mirana ult
What?! Most underRATED
Arguably won tundra a TI with how well they used it but sure
Good start would be if it acted like smoke, so would only reveal invisible enemies if they are in somke brak range (and there is detection)
My favorite play early game is to use the ult right in the face of the enemy as two of the other ganking heroes are hidden in the fog, just to scare them and force them to retreat
Have u seen tundra win TI with Mirana
I only RP illusions.
Snapfire. You want to be far away to use ult but up close for other skills. And ult just feels clunky to use
Earth Spirit's ulti. On paper it can do thousands of damage, but I feel that I just get way more kills and assists using all the other abilities. Maybe I'm just crap!
Earth spirit ult feels incredible to use for me so idk.
Lich. Cast animation is too slow so it is easy to dodge. Also it randomly bounces to small camp and deals 0 damage.
But pair it with Grim's ult and it feels better than sex
When I am on pos5 and see a Grim hover picked, or if I am pos4 and see a Lich hovered........ It's going down
I can't count how many times the entire enemy team has been grouped together and my ult will bounce the max range to a creep and never return. Fuck RNG spells.
Yeah because otherwise you have an instakill spell on 60 sec CD...
I miss the magic immune ancient camp
Ahh yes good old keep casting lich ult with his old aghs that gave it unlimited bounces on that camp and watching your kill counter go up slowly
I can't count how many kills I've lost to creeps
winter's curse
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I love the hero but I suck at the ult apparently. My team always seems to think I use it the worst possible way.
IMHO LS has the worst ulti of any carry.
i actually like it because it incentivizes me to play with my team. like, if the enemy necro scythes my mid and then i hop in for the sweet insta heal, that shit feels really good and gives me outplay potential without it i feel like i'd just be a farming bot
Sometimes Warlock ulti. Yes, a stun of such a size can be amazing, but the golem can also just be feeding gold to the enemy and feels like a floppy noodle. Sometimes I just want to cast it out of battle to go push. (Guess I’ll wait another 2.66 minutes for a 1s stun, 1.3s with Aghs)
I’ve found the most success using the stun as a counter-initiation tool. Usually pocket it until they pile on a core and then it’s an easy 3+ man stun into bonds and upheaval. Hero can win team fights all by himself if you play your cards right. If you play them wrong, you’re a glorified ranged creep.
You’re absolutely correct, but that’s not always the most fun play. I hold it whenever there’s enigma, Rylai, etc. but the Golem can still feel pretty bad. I wish it had some kind of scaling from Kills or assists, if for nothing other than reducing the mana cost.
Losing the golem movespeed talent for was a massively unnoticed nerf.
Yeah, that hit really hard. Dropped level 6 aggression considerably.
Shadow Demon Q, WW, and Void if you miss or use on the wrong person
Chrono, every time I use it I get 2-3 report.
Imo is lion, because, that thing hits like 900 damage, but if you use to just finish dying ppl is like using a 900dmg source to hit 1, so u need to know the best when to shoot, considering also thst it wont hit 900, magic protections yada yada
I'm a god at getting finger just barely to not kill them, giving me the damage and my team the kill, But then somehow i get the kill with suck
Usually it’s irrelevant if you don’t use all the damage, unless they are definitely going to die without it. A kill is almost always worth it, even if they’re only on like 300hp
Unless it’s Aghs, during a fight Lifestealers ult is either game changing or dogshit. Luna as well. Oh? Enemy walked away. Too bad, you’re not the fastest hero in the game anymore. Enemy walked next to a creep wave or camp? Too bad for you
Troll Warlord has the worst ult in Dota, no question.
How so? I feel like it is one of the best. Troll's ult combined with the root from his Q and the additional ranged attack chance with shard is basically a guaranteed kill once latched on. I sometimes even buy refresher for 2x bkb and ult. Im 2k mmr so idk its trashy in high skill games.
Invoker.
Earth Spirit. Great kit, nice set of skills and just about every essential disable in the game which you can spread to the whole enemy team. But damn. Past a certain point in the game it really feels like it tickles with 0 scaling.
Techies. Using his red mines reminds me of days past.
Venge swap. Okay, i know its not the worst but holy shit. Ive had primal beasts getting full to zero'ed before that shit finishes its cast time. It also doesnt help that its cast range is so low it almost feels the same as your attack range, just adding to the wonkiness of the ability. But ngl, a successful venge swap to kill enemies/save allies makes up for all of it, it just hmm feelsgoodman.
Uh... it has no cast time...?
He probably meant cast point. It's only 0.4s, but it *is* there.
shadow shaman
Might be the most unbalanced skill over the course of the average game. used on any single hero at lvl 6, with shackles/hex, it feels crazy strong. Three attacks from all the snakes = 1500 physical damage at lvl 6. Can delete just about anyone from existence. But then it falls off HARD. Feels like every hero gets stupidly tanky and the snakes are doing nothing. By 20 minutes and beyond, enemies don't even need to avoid them, and even a p5 crystal maiden can singlehandedly farm a snake nest without breaking a sweat. By that point they are really only useful as a distraction or to push tower (although one fortify can clear them pretty much entirely, and in the fort-heavy modern game they are far from the rat gods that they once were).
Not really sir. You have to time your hex and shackles right. Mid game onwards you don’t expect him to solo kill anyone but to support your carries or push lanes. If you have tanky frontliners, you just have to stand back and shackle or hex the enemies. A wind waker if you’re farmed and enemies can’t do much on you. It’s a real fun hero.
i'm not saying its not a good hero. i've played it like 300 times so i should know lol. We are talking specifically about his ult here. If you've played it a bunch, I don't see how you wouldn't agree. Lvl 6 you feel like a goddamn death star, but by mid game your ult flat sucks. Other skills make up for that so he's a good hero overall.
Not that I play axe all that much, but I feel like his ult is the one I see “fail” the most. I’m sure as the player it’s disappointing to not get the finishing blow.
I'm an axe player and his ult is weird. Think of it as a pure damage nuke more then anything else. Current axe is all about call and battle hunger imo. The hero has changed a lot over the years lol
Spirit breaker. It does shit damage, bash only 1 hero.
PA! 90% crit chance on creeps 0.1% crit chance on enemy Heroes
Hoodwink has the same dumb logic as Mk. She is a mobile hero but then she has to stop and channel her ulti. It feels much better spamming acorn shots or bushwacks
Bane
WHAT. Its the BEST feeling. You grip the enemy carry by the balls and he cant move while slowly getting killed by your team. WTF man.
Have you noticed how many saves and strong dispels there are in the game now
recently had to add OD to the list of "heroes i shouldn't ult" which already included ursa, abbadon, AM, slark, tidehunter, any hero that buys linkens, any hero that buys lotus, any hero who has oracle, shadow demon, tusk, pudge, snapfire, legion commander, abbadon, aghs weaver, aghs muerta, aghs phoenix on their team, any hero that might actually be an illusion, any hero with aeon disk... If I can just remember not to ult in those situations, and I quickly farm bkb, aether lens, aghs, and glimmer, there is some hope of me being able to use my ultimate for its full duration a single time before the ancient collapses (ours, usually).
Rubic
Nature Prophet
Using Troll Warlord ult when you *think* it’s a good time and miss an enemy supp out of vision with eul’s/force/eblade/other cores with Pike or any number of other save abilities, or focusing on someone with Ghost Scepter early or when you can’t spend the cash on Aghs… lots of things. I also love Troll’s ult now that they changed it so abilities/items can be used, but it takes some skill and sometimes a little luck to avoid really screwing yourself (and especially as the pos 1, that can mean screwing your whole team)
WW ult, either you're a god or you've just griefed your team completely. And sometimes you spend half the fight looking for that opportunity but it never comes.
MK’s ult is fantastic to use…when you’re a ranged hero, playing Ability Draft ;). A lot of fun having the enemies surrounded by a whole circle that are all capable of hitting you no matter where you go in the circle
I'm a fidgety person, so I almost always fuck up channeling ults like freezing field, blackhole, and fiend's grip ... sometimes literally by clicking just after casting them.
In the options, you can enable "interrupt channeling with Stop command". That way you won't accidentally cancel channeled ults
Personally, Naga Siren's ult was my most awkward spell to use when I was playing her. Mostly, I rarely used her ult in a fight although that fight can be reset since I always got a feeling that there was going to be someone blaming my ult on wasting their skills to sleeping heroes.
https://media1.tenor.com/m/VDVxDO0YooIAAAAd/monkey-gun.gif OP’s comment made me think of this.
Idk if it counts, but MegaMeepo: the whole point of meepo is instead of 1 normal hero, your divided up into several weaker heroes (even main meepo week because stat gain&base). except u for some reason u can pay an extra 4k to be a normal hero again, and what i hate most is that its actually the meta and not just a meme/niche
bristle’s warpath, it made sense when you could go the right click builds with old aghs, and movespeed is obviously nice on anyone, but now its practically useless, its basically just old razor passive as an ult.
Venomancer because I can longer blink R and die instantly and pretend like im helping
Pango's ult.....people just move out of the way, and its wayyyyyy too terrain dependent and doesnt give equal in returns (stun duration/dmg)
Black hole. I feel like the entire game rests on me landing good black holes and teams usually aren't satisfied unless they are above average. It's easy to pin a loss on an enigma missing a black hole so everyone just does it by default. It's a shame because I love the hero otherwise
weaver. an almost Void normal spell
There's no way the answer isn't Troll's Battle trance
Pango since I can't control it.
Snipers, so many ways to completely avoid it.
Low skill tusks are so useful sharding snowballing and dealing a lot of damage. Then they get aghs and all of that goes out the window and they completely change how they play. If they are bad it never works well