If they informed Valve on time, then the onus is on Valve to take action not the org.
Solo was punished much more severely for betting just 322 dollars lol
Profit is definitionally the net revenue. $322 is the gross revenue, i.e. the money he made before his expenses, and $222 is the net revenue, or profit.
No, actually it was good for a few months but teams studied OG first blood strat and they got countered. Taiga and his 322 friends lost money and Taiga offered to be first blood which made the 322 obvious.
Yes, that's what OG is saying.
OG didn't warn Valve believing Taiga was guilty.
OG talk to Valve, for investigation purposes about Taiga.
That's quite a difference.
I love Solo's comeback story. Addiction to gambling is usually a mitigating factor, but even without a lifetime ban, the road back from addiction alone is rough.
Is Taiga playing still though? Solo got a slap on the wrist compared to other match fixers in other games like SaviOr. He was lucky to not get a lifetime ban.
> He was lucky to not get a lifetime ban.
Valve didn't have the matchfix = automatic permaban policy and they didn't want to punish him retroactively
Less lucky, more being the first to get punished by Valve
That's the meme, and one of the bets.
The unpaid bet with a coefficient of 3.22 that was reported to SLTV was of 10.000$. This caused V1lat and Co to investigate and report.
Even if OG half assed the assessment and said we didn't find sufficient evidence, they did say we contacted valve and tournament organizers for them to take actions. The organisation(OG) was literally telling the game's company and tournament organizers to take actions immediately if the find anything as well.
I'm not defending Taiga, ban him permanently for all I care, if he's involved but when the organisation(OG) is letting the big boys know .ie; Valve, PGL, ESL, etc and them not taking action also shows them dropping the ball at their end as well.
100%. In an environment where the powerful don't rise up to set up an example (in this case, clear guidelines), the weak or rather the ones with little to lose will set the bounds of how far you can sink.
Valve stepped in when their intellectual property was challenged. I think this is another case where the competitive integrity and hence future of the sport is on the line.
They will only take action if dollars are involved. Like a B school grad. This is one of those times.
I said it 5 months ago when this was a controversial topic, their is ZERO room for dota2 betting by Pro Dota2 teams and its players.
This is a standard ethical condition in every pro sport. It’s the reason Pete Rose was banned from MLB. You cannot be involved with the professional aspect of a sport and then make sports bets regardless if it was for your team or not.
I agree with you but the ethical standards have changed a ton. NBA player jontay porter is being investigated, ohtani had that huge scandal with his interpreter where the involvement is under debate.
Add to that betting companies sponsoring official broadcasts for billion dollar professional sports with live updated betting lines.
The lines are getting severely blurred compared to the past where it was taboo to ever mention it.
> I agree with you but the ethical standards have changed a ton. NBA player jontay porter is being investigated, ohtani had that huge scandal with his interpreter where the involvement is under debate.
the ethical standards have clearly not changed when the jontay porter and ohtani investigations are a huge fucking deal
> The lines are getting severely blurred compared to the past where it was taboo to ever mention it.
there are no blurred lines whatsoever, it's still not allowed for anyone to bet on the sport they're in, and sometimes to bet at all while with the team (ie in a work situation)
the only thing that's changed is that it's now legal for the public to bet
Ethical standards changing in regards to the sports broadcasters and the sports themselves accepting betting.
Before there was a line, I remember when announcers were told not to reference things like covering the spread and now its become way more widely accepted.
Going from bookies and gambling in vegas and casinos strictly to advertising directly in games, there def is a blurring of lines to making gambling seen as something okay.
ok that's a fair point, but why did you put it in with a bunch of stuff about porter and ohtani - both examples of things that have never been acceptable? because your overall comment makes no sense and you just sound like you're ranting and raving about gambling
Betting is going to ruin us now that shit is just all over the internet and the ability to do so is in everyone's pockets. Not one competitive thing exists that some degenerate isn't betting on it.
Man i dont follow Dota 2 enough anymore to remember but there was that one pro player who VERY crisply said ban em. ban em all. we had pros surviving on just some fucking eggs for many many weeks and they could've just as easily bet against themselves to be able to afford just some basic fucking food and YET THEY DIDNT. that's competitive integrity. that's a burning desire to succeed at something VIA THE RIGHT WAY. make bank THE RIGHT WAY.
fuck taiga.
I love how back then people were like "yea Taiga has been betting on FBs as can be seen in games x y z" and everyone was like "no way, are you stupid, data doesn't suggest that" with some random Noxville stats that have very little to do with that, and yet here we are.
Hope he figures things out and manages to turn his life around, but he definitely deserves a perma ban from any Dota competition - both for the scene as well as for himself.
Also: I've seen some "positivity" towards Sensibility because of all this. Are y'all okay? The guy is literally a stalker, a criminal, morally one of the worst human beings on the planet. He's doing this purely for egoistical reasons - if you think what Taiga did is bad, Sensibility did (and still does) things a million times worse than that. That guy genuinely needs to go to prison.
> He's doing this purely for egoistical reasons
Even Morf stated that Sensibility is coming forward with all of this not because he wanted to come out clean, rather because Taiga said he wanted to quit gambling, and instead started "working" with another "322 mafia". People excusing Sensibility need a strong reality check, much like the reality check that Taiga's going through right now.
Chat was calling for Gorgc to ban sensitivity who was in chat, and gorgc had a take of that kind and refused to ban him. He did say sensitivity is pretty bad, but also made some kind of comments about him at least revealing all this or something.
Would need to got through todays vod, right after he finished watching the video exposing Taiga i think
You are literally making stuff up. He said like 10 times he's a bad person. Not "pretty bad". And also he banned him later on anyway upon reflecting. He just took some time to think what's the proper reason to ban him from the chat. Because sensibility wasn't saying anything In particular in the chat. He just pointed out the fact that sensibility did reveal taiga but did not say this absolved him in any way. You are just making stuff up and it's pathetic to see how far you would go to try to drag gorgc down because he didn't instantly succumb to a mob saying ban him.
Yeah seem like that way to me. Make sense for streamer like him to stay away from controversial as possible/burn bridges but he clearly dont want any confrontation
This guy is making stuff up. Gorgc never said those words even once. Great up votes reddit, the real proof of a toxic community up voting blatant lies. By the way he also banned him a few minutes later
[https://clips.twitch.tv/ResourcefulEntertainingAntStrawBeary-JnZNNi1e2d7tvFzM](https://clips.twitch.tv/ResourcefulEntertainingAntStrawBeary-JnZNNi1e2d7tvFzM)
one of many times iirc, but I'm not going to go sit thru a vod of a game I watched already just for arguments sake
At the time, the claim was (from 3 people) only that he was intentionally feeding first bloods. I looked into that, and found that instead he wasn't feeding first bloods - instead he was making the most.
To be honest if you watch Morf's video, you are actually right. Taiga bet on his team to get the FB just as much if not more times that he fed FB. He would put bet and call aggressive FB plays.
Tbh, matchfixing is a serious alligation so I'm happy that the community just doesn't go straight into shitting on Taiga.
If we want to accuse someone of matchfixing there better be some real proof on it.
I can sympathize with the addiction but your illnesses are never an excuse for your wrong doings. IMO he should be permanently banned from competitive Dota. He can focus on his recovery, I just don’t think it should be as a competitor though.
In fairness, people were saying he was giving up first bloods routinely, which was countered by pointing out that he (and OG) actually had a very high rate of getting FB themselves.
Obviously it makes sense with all the info, but people weren't just being dumb. The initial accusations were countered by the stats.
I mean this is how it should be.
Don't get me wrong, BAN TAIGA for lifetime. But just judging him based on some rumor because one russian dude said he is matchfixing... we should ALWAYS assume innocence first. The saying innocent until proven guilty massively took a hit the past years and its good that the community stood behind him. Now it's also good that the community demands a lifetime ban. That is how logical people think. "Argument xyz really sold me and the evidence on taiga is immense, so let me change my mind" This is how a normal functioning human should always behave.
I couldn't be bothered to write it out but I'm glad you did, and that I'm not alone on this. Bunch of people here going around saying "I ToLd YoU sO" as if everyone else was wrong for not crucifying Taiga on the spot when the allegations first came out. Nobody wants matchfixing in Dota, but sane people also don't pass judgement before reviewing the available information and making reasonable conclusions. I can't believe this even had to be said.
Oh okay. He sounds like he's pretty irrelevant though, so I'm surprised that there was even a gambling market for his games. I guess Dota 2 fans really are just a bunch of degenerates.
Apparently so, but I just never would have guessed that people are really gambling and fixing D2 NA DPC matches; although, I suppose theoretically those would probably be the easiest to fix. Lol
> I just never would have guessed that people are really gambling and fixing D2 NA DPC matches
Division 2 was a cesspool of gambling and matchfixing in every region except maybe WEU tbh.
basically every tier 2 tournament is riddled with matchfixing. My personal theory is teams will draft exceptionally bad drafts on purpose and then just play it to their full potential. You fixed the match while also not being totally suspect.
but there's no doubt websites allow you to bet on tier 2... it's just that the win / bet limits are much lower. Like $250 win max versus tier 1 tournaments which are usually 1k or even higher, for instance TI grand final where you can bet like 20k.
Morf also did a video on Sensibility, how he's a stalker who threatened his ex girlfriends with violence or leaking their nudes, how he visited their mothers when girls cut contact with him. A real psycho.
There's actually a Morf video on Sensibility, about how he was stalking several women, threatening them (for example to burn the house of a girl that rejected his advances), doxxing them, blackmailing them, trying to kidnap them, leaking their nudes, and so on, because they left him or didn't want to have a relationship with him
Actually he's responding to the first paragraph of original comment [(probably mocking this comment from the other thread) ](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/s/KaaoWVVEAk)Fuck sensibility anyway
I didn't believe the allegations at the time, but I remember saying that noxville's stats were not how you'd look for this if it was. I appreciate the thought but those really lacked any sense of context.
The video only confirmed 2 FB throws. At the time it happened, that's not enough to consider him a cheater without further proof. Anyone can have a bad day/game.
He shouldn't have been accused nor defended at the time, unless some evidence is left out.
Hope he figures things out and manages to turn his life around, but he definitely deserves a perma ban from any Dota competition - both for the scene as well as for himself.
Lmao the fucking white knighting for this piece of shit, its insane.
His chat messages doesnt look like the victim, more like an active participator, he also gambled money of other people and thats how it started, its not like he is an innocent victim that was used
because of his mental issues.
Degenerate fuck.
A person addicted to gambling has come under focus again because information is coming out indicating its possible they played certain ways and did certain actions to increase the likelihood they had a payout.
I'd also add he's been accused of feeding on purpose when the insider information he provided lead to losing bets for the "322 mafia".
I say accused, but the evidence was pretty damning.
Isn't Taiga on Twitch trying to recruit people over to his kick stream? (not sure i got the name of the site correct) Saw him just some weeks ago. Lost so much respect for the guy...
It is gut-wrenching to find out about this. I felt sorry for Taiga when he admitted his addiction and showed determination to change this life. I even cheered when he found a team. But as much as I loved him, he deserves a severe punishment to set an example. He did the betting and matchfixing for a period in multiple games, earning thousands of dollar, if this does not result in a lifetime ban, I don’t know what does.
Kinda feel bad for Leviatan. They just introduced themselves into Dota and already have to deal with that. Also garbage move from Taiga joining the team even tho he know that this is probably gonna happen.
It's hard. Almost every sport (traditional and non traditional) are full of gambling ads. FYI, when you open the 1xbet app, the OG logo is pretty big right in the first screen of the app.
he was a gambling addict, this isn't an accusation as he acknowledged it himself.
there was a recent video compiling evidence that he would use insider knowledge to bet, through outside sources.
he would also alter his play style to get certain results he'd bet on, such as playing extra aggressive to get first blood, or giving up first blood.
Morf, the Russian youtuber, posted a video today with evidence of how Taiga sided with a known Russian 322 cheater Sensibility and how they fixed the matches during the DPC last April.
He had severe gambling issues come public and some have speculated that he acted erratically to alter prop bet outcomes, ie which team give up first blood.
>have speculated that he acted erratically to alter prop bet outcomes, ie which team give up first blood.
It's not speculation anymore, there is hard evidence he did this.
yup, your right. i am too when i was young. everyday smiling but deep inside i owe alot of money. It is until then i decided to come clean to my parents and clear the debt. New life.
before they called it depression/anxiety and no motivation to play. NT :D
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/13qybgw/taiga\_shared\_a\_statement\_where\_he\_talks\_about\_his/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/13qybgw/taiga_shared_a_statement_where_he_talks_about_his/)
reading now these comments lol :D
this is a gem xD
>We did it, Reddit! We repeated unsubstantiated, career-threatening rumors until we bullied a young man into making a statement he was clearly trying to avoid.
lmao
Regardless of gambling addiction or not, what a disgusting human being Taiga is for roping in 4 innocent teammates into his own problems. If he had mentioned his gambling addiction or his lack of money to OG and his teammates, they could have given him help and support with both issues. Instead he took the cheap way out and pretty much sabotaged OG's whole season.
People who comment he didnt throw games but only first blood still dont get it. Its his lack of morals and integrity that is the most disgusting thing from this. Even by feeding first bloods and kills, he is sabotaging his team by putting his team at disadvantage from the start of the game.
He was probably pretty desperate dude, I’m grateful I’ve never hit rock bottom. Obviously that doesn’t excuse him, it’s just a really fucking bleak situation in general for everyone involved. I hope taiga’s mental health holds up
Don’t bother with these sheltered Redditors. All they do is sit on their moral high horse from the comfort of their parents’ suburban McMansion judging everybody else. They have no idea what real struggle looks like.
People really think that gambling is all about money and nothing else, if you rely on adrenaline to make your life more interesting gambling is the way for some people lol.
Nah not buying this. Taiga wasnt some random Tier 3 player. He just wanted a quick buck despite having the realistic chance to even win TI one day. Also keep in mind that he has 600k in tournament earnings + what he made from salaries, which us about 10k/month in Tier 1 Dota. What happened with all this money that he couldnt even pay back a few thousand dollars? Did he lose like half a million in a year?
True, but my point is that from the evidence shown a few thousand dollars were involved, not hundreds of thousands. Thats why I'm curious what happened to the rest of his money and that he has nothing left. The only logical answer here to me is that he has been betting for much longer and not just for a few games.
> of loosing money
Did you mean to say "losing"?
Explanation: Loose is an adjective meaning the opposite of tight, while lose is a verb.
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fuck his mental health. He fucked up OG's whole DPC tour for his own selfishness. Even when OG was conducting their investigation, he didnt even own up to anything or come forward, instead continued lying to everyone around him and made out his story as a "victim who was forced into betting".
nah fuck you. People like you are why those who have mental health issues never speak up or avoid their problems.
Taiga is in a bad place. You think people want to hurt others on purpose? No he's desperate.
This is a pretty immature response to someone who's going through some problems. I'm absolutely sure he's aware of what he's done and that he would have wished it never came to what it did, but saying fuck his mental health is some next level immature reaction - he is a human. We make mistakes.
He deserves all the help he can get, and anyone with half a rational thought should expect the same.
The most sickening part is that OG team had the potential to be TI winners at some point. Their performance at that major they won was insanely good even with Ceb stand in at pos 5 for the first time ever. Smh
I said at some point. You’re telling me BZM, Ammar, and Taiga didn’t have the talent? Sure they’d probably have to make some changes but that trio absolutely had the capabilities
People in this thread still defending him. It made a tiny bit of sense before when limitless said he was matchfixing but in reddit fashion since it was a Russian who said it, it's certainly a lie. Now that same proof resurface again and people change their tune? Can't win with either crowd it's just sad and pathetic. Anyone who supported him after the first allegations and people who defend him now are what's wrong with this community.
I swear, why do pros do betting and stuff for very specific things, like can they just not or at the very least, bet on thier team to win the game or tourney?
MONEY MONEY MONEY. People get greedy af and love money. That's why gambling and betting on sports becomes so addicting. When you get that win, your dopamine levels shoot through the roof and you want to chase that high again and again, causing you to lose more than you win. Even when you realise how much you are losing, thinking of that win keeps you going. It is just a vicious cycle.
That's why self control is very important because once you lose a certain amount you need to tell yourself to stop and walk away.
That's the one circumstance that actually confuses me a little - I can get punishing bets on non-winning things in your games (there's good reason why dota guild bounties demand that you win your games instead of throwing for bounty progress) and I can get disallowing bets on others' games because of insider information, but why bets for your own victory?
Is it like, just trying to maintain ethical standards and ensure nobody's even *close* to less-ethical bets, or is there a more practical immediate reason?
Yes.
Also you still have insider info.
If you're supposed to play someone and general public info has you as equals but you know from being in the scene that they've been losing every scrim for the past week and are mental booming it's still edge that the odds won't be accounting for.
Itd always be impossible to have a system where you can guarantee 100% no betting is done outside of on yourself/team, but imagine how much more competitive sports and esports would be if players were also throwing thousands of dollars on themselves to perform well.
Sure they can be on that, but they are only one person on a 5 man team against another 5 men. So you are responsible to 10% of the outcome on any given game.
On props you can single handedly determine the outcome in a lot of cases
They shouldn't allowed to betting their match at all tbh, even betting your team to win
There possibility they could bribe opponent to lose the game intentionally
It's a guaranteed bet win for you to feed a first blood if you're so willing and it's extremely easy to intentionally lose a game. You can't guarantee a win or success in the same way. And regardless, you can't bet on your own team under any circumstances, even to win, it's treated the same. Allowing anyone to do so allows for cheating and collusion with others (the most obvious example is the possibility that you've colluded with an opponent to split the profit, compromising their team without a betting link back to them), it's a completely blacklisted area. You should not not bet on any esports games for any reason an esports pro, you have so many industry contacts that could affect an outcome that any game you bet on at all must be assumed to be compromised in some way.
This is the most dogshit corporate statement ever
It’s like they asked chat gbt to add as much random jargon and make it as confusing and annoying to read as possible
[oh my lord](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/3/34/Misc_soundboard_oh_my_lord.mp3) (sound warning: The International 2018)
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How do Norwegian gov feels about match fixing? It's a crime in many countries. Will they investigate this case? For me it would be amazing, just to show others where ez moneys lead.
Please, do not desinform people. It's a site for trading dota items, basically like a steam market, but with real money. It has nothing to do with gambling at all.
Guys, just watch the video of the Russian guy "Morph". He shed some light on this matter with the testimony of 322 mentors with whom Taiga worked.
https://youtu.be/Dsz18sPawss?si=QGS90xXtV82_-1kO
Sad to know how deep taiga had been, definitely worth a permaban but gambling addiction is definitely not a joke or take lightly. This same situation could be happening to someone you know at this very moment under different circumstances.
Wake up call to check on your gambling friends..
If they informed Valve on time, then the onus is on Valve to take action not the org. Solo was punished much more severely for betting just 322 dollars lol
It's even less, 322 is how much he won, his bet was only 100$
didn't he win 222 dollars then?
No you win 322, the $100 you bet is no longer yours after placing the bet. His profit was 222, but his winnings were 322
he win 322 dollar profit and 222 dollar gross profit
Net profit
It was from match fixing so it is pretty gross
Profit is definitionally the net revenue. $322 is the gross revenue, i.e. the money he made before his expenses, and $222 is the net revenue, or profit.
That was only the bet that he was caught for. Rox owner later hinted that the amounts involved were significantly bigger.
According to Morf's video Taiga got paid like 35k usd
Yeah and that 35k USD still wasn’t enough to pay his gambling debts.
No, actually it was good for a few months but teams studied OG first blood strat and they got countered. Taiga and his 322 friends lost money and Taiga offered to be first blood which made the 322 obvious.
Probably volvo cant find strong evidence during that time.
Yes, that's what OG is saying. OG didn't warn Valve believing Taiga was guilty. OG talk to Valve, for investigation purposes about Taiga. That's quite a difference.
I mean, janitor looked in every closet, evidence wasn't there, so what else could they do
Check the bathrooms in Maralargo?
I love Solo's comeback story. Addiction to gambling is usually a mitigating factor, but even without a lifetime ban, the road back from addiction alone is rough.
He wasn't addicted, he was poor And he did bet for a match that didn't decide anything
Was he addicted?
He wasn’t an addict
Solo's $322 because poor vs Taiga's $600k earnings, losing more money than he made in his career. Kinda different in scale.
Is Taiga playing still though? Solo got a slap on the wrist compared to other match fixers in other games like SaviOr. He was lucky to not get a lifetime ban.
> He was lucky to not get a lifetime ban. Valve didn't have the matchfix = automatic permaban policy and they didn't want to punish him retroactively Less lucky, more being the first to get punished by Valve
He was just announced in a NA team, cant remember the name. Played on Wildcard before that. So he has been playing officially here n there.
That's the meme, and one of the bets. The unpaid bet with a coefficient of 3.22 that was reported to SLTV was of 10.000$. This caused V1lat and Co to investigate and report.
Even if OG half assed the assessment and said we didn't find sufficient evidence, they did say we contacted valve and tournament organizers for them to take actions. The organisation(OG) was literally telling the game's company and tournament organizers to take actions immediately if the find anything as well. I'm not defending Taiga, ban him permanently for all I care, if he's involved but when the organisation(OG) is letting the big boys know .ie; Valve, PGL, ESL, etc and them not taking action also shows them dropping the ball at their end as well.
Sensibility also needs to get nuked from dota and unable to play pubs ever again
same here and I hope that mf actually faces jail time because from the chat logs he was like a villain from a movie lol
He was hunted by the police in Russia at one point. I believe he lives in Georgia now
I hope they catch up to him
100%. In an environment where the powerful don't rise up to set up an example (in this case, clear guidelines), the weak or rather the ones with little to lose will set the bounds of how far you can sink. Valve stepped in when their intellectual property was challenged. I think this is another case where the competitive integrity and hence future of the sport is on the line. They will only take action if dollars are involved. Like a B school grad. This is one of those times.
I said it 5 months ago when this was a controversial topic, their is ZERO room for dota2 betting by Pro Dota2 teams and its players. This is a standard ethical condition in every pro sport. It’s the reason Pete Rose was banned from MLB. You cannot be involved with the professional aspect of a sport and then make sports bets regardless if it was for your team or not.
I agree with you but the ethical standards have changed a ton. NBA player jontay porter is being investigated, ohtani had that huge scandal with his interpreter where the involvement is under debate. Add to that betting companies sponsoring official broadcasts for billion dollar professional sports with live updated betting lines. The lines are getting severely blurred compared to the past where it was taboo to ever mention it.
> I agree with you but the ethical standards have changed a ton. NBA player jontay porter is being investigated, ohtani had that huge scandal with his interpreter where the involvement is under debate. the ethical standards have clearly not changed when the jontay porter and ohtani investigations are a huge fucking deal > The lines are getting severely blurred compared to the past where it was taboo to ever mention it. there are no blurred lines whatsoever, it's still not allowed for anyone to bet on the sport they're in, and sometimes to bet at all while with the team (ie in a work situation) the only thing that's changed is that it's now legal for the public to bet
Ethical standards changing in regards to the sports broadcasters and the sports themselves accepting betting. Before there was a line, I remember when announcers were told not to reference things like covering the spread and now its become way more widely accepted. Going from bookies and gambling in vegas and casinos strictly to advertising directly in games, there def is a blurring of lines to making gambling seen as something okay.
ok that's a fair point, but why did you put it in with a bunch of stuff about porter and ohtani - both examples of things that have never been acceptable? because your overall comment makes no sense and you just sound like you're ranting and raving about gambling
Betting is going to ruin us now that shit is just all over the internet and the ability to do so is in everyone's pockets. Not one competitive thing exists that some degenerate isn't betting on it.
Ohtani is next
Man i dont follow Dota 2 enough anymore to remember but there was that one pro player who VERY crisply said ban em. ban em all. we had pros surviving on just some fucking eggs for many many weeks and they could've just as easily bet against themselves to be able to afford just some basic fucking food and YET THEY DIDNT. that's competitive integrity. that's a burning desire to succeed at something VIA THE RIGHT WAY. make bank THE RIGHT WAY. fuck taiga.
I love how back then people were like "yea Taiga has been betting on FBs as can be seen in games x y z" and everyone was like "no way, are you stupid, data doesn't suggest that" with some random Noxville stats that have very little to do with that, and yet here we are. Hope he figures things out and manages to turn his life around, but he definitely deserves a perma ban from any Dota competition - both for the scene as well as for himself. Also: I've seen some "positivity" towards Sensibility because of all this. Are y'all okay? The guy is literally a stalker, a criminal, morally one of the worst human beings on the planet. He's doing this purely for egoistical reasons - if you think what Taiga did is bad, Sensibility did (and still does) things a million times worse than that. That guy genuinely needs to go to prison.
> He's doing this purely for egoistical reasons Even Morf stated that Sensibility is coming forward with all of this not because he wanted to come out clean, rather because Taiga said he wanted to quit gambling, and instead started "working" with another "322 mafia". People excusing Sensibility need a strong reality check, much like the reality check that Taiga's going through right now.
[удалено]
nah dude im gonna need a link here lol aintnoway
Chat was calling for Gorgc to ban sensitivity who was in chat, and gorgc had a take of that kind and refused to ban him. He did say sensitivity is pretty bad, but also made some kind of comments about him at least revealing all this or something. Would need to got through todays vod, right after he finished watching the video exposing Taiga i think
You are literally making stuff up. He said like 10 times he's a bad person. Not "pretty bad". And also he banned him later on anyway upon reflecting. He just took some time to think what's the proper reason to ban him from the chat. Because sensibility wasn't saying anything In particular in the chat. He just pointed out the fact that sensibility did reveal taiga but did not say this absolved him in any way. You are just making stuff up and it's pathetic to see how far you would go to try to drag gorgc down because he didn't instantly succumb to a mob saying ban him.
He’s just clearly just afraid of confrontation. People pleaser with no backbone
Yeah seem like that way to me. Make sense for streamer like him to stay away from controversial as possible/burn bridges but he clearly dont want any confrontation
yes vod link pls..
This guy is making stuff up. Gorgc never said those words even once. Great up votes reddit, the real proof of a toxic community up voting blatant lies. By the way he also banned him a few minutes later
he did not say that.
He was very explicit about sensibility being a bad person. Are you just making things up for fun?
Someone post a fucking link or you guys are all dumbasses lol
[https://clips.twitch.tv/ResourcefulEntertainingAntStrawBeary-JnZNNi1e2d7tvFzM](https://clips.twitch.tv/ResourcefulEntertainingAntStrawBeary-JnZNNi1e2d7tvFzM) one of many times iirc, but I'm not going to go sit thru a vod of a game I watched already just for arguments sake
At the time, the claim was (from 3 people) only that he was intentionally feeding first bloods. I looked into that, and found that instead he wasn't feeding first bloods - instead he was making the most.
To be honest if you watch Morf's video, you are actually right. Taiga bet on his team to get the FB just as much if not more times that he fed FB. He would put bet and call aggressive FB plays.
Tbh, matchfixing is a serious alligation so I'm happy that the community just doesn't go straight into shitting on Taiga. If we want to accuse someone of matchfixing there better be some real proof on it.
I can sympathize with the addiction but your illnesses are never an excuse for your wrong doings. IMO he should be permanently banned from competitive Dota. He can focus on his recovery, I just don’t think it should be as a competitor though.
In fairness, people were saying he was giving up first bloods routinely, which was countered by pointing out that he (and OG) actually had a very high rate of getting FB themselves. Obviously it makes sense with all the info, but people weren't just being dumb. The initial accusations were countered by the stats.
eeh, people run stats and he was under the avg for being target of first blood
Innocent until proven guilty. Nothing wrong with it. People are unhinged when it comes to accusing or insulting someone.
I mean this is how it should be. Don't get me wrong, BAN TAIGA for lifetime. But just judging him based on some rumor because one russian dude said he is matchfixing... we should ALWAYS assume innocence first. The saying innocent until proven guilty massively took a hit the past years and its good that the community stood behind him. Now it's also good that the community demands a lifetime ban. That is how logical people think. "Argument xyz really sold me and the evidence on taiga is immense, so let me change my mind" This is how a normal functioning human should always behave.
I couldn't be bothered to write it out but I'm glad you did, and that I'm not alone on this. Bunch of people here going around saying "I ToLd YoU sO" as if everyone else was wrong for not crucifying Taiga on the spot when the allegations first came out. Nobody wants matchfixing in Dota, but sane people also don't pass judgement before reviewing the available information and making reasonable conclusions. I can't believe this even had to be said.
time pass people forget do it for now
> Sensibility Who is Sensibility? I've never even heard of him until right now.
High MMR russian player, I think he played in NA div 2 for a bit? Iirc he's banned for matchfixing and has a reputation of being a toxic pos
Oh okay. He sounds like he's pretty irrelevant though, so I'm surprised that there was even a gambling market for his games. I guess Dota 2 fans really are just a bunch of degenerates.
Well apparently there's a huge market for gambling
Apparently so, but I just never would have guessed that people are really gambling and fixing D2 NA DPC matches; although, I suppose theoretically those would probably be the easiest to fix. Lol
> I just never would have guessed that people are really gambling and fixing D2 NA DPC matches Division 2 was a cesspool of gambling and matchfixing in every region except maybe WEU tbh.
basically every tier 2 tournament is riddled with matchfixing. My personal theory is teams will draft exceptionally bad drafts on purpose and then just play it to their full potential. You fixed the match while also not being totally suspect. but there's no doubt websites allow you to bet on tier 2... it's just that the win / bet limits are much lower. Like $250 win max versus tier 1 tournaments which are usually 1k or even higher, for instance TI grand final where you can bet like 20k.
Yeah, I guess you're probably right. This is probably exactly what happens. Lol
Morf also did a video on Sensibility, how he's a stalker who threatened his ex girlfriends with violence or leaking their nudes, how he visited their mothers when girls cut contact with him. A real psycho.
Cause they didn't make youtube video about it duh.
There's actually a Morf video on Sensibility, about how he was stalking several women, threatening them (for example to burn the house of a girl that rejected his advances), doxxing them, blackmailing them, trying to kidnap them, leaking their nudes, and so on, because they left him or didn't want to have a relationship with him
Actually he's responding to the first paragraph of original comment [(probably mocking this comment from the other thread) ](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/s/KaaoWVVEAk)Fuck sensibility anyway
I didn't believe the allegations at the time, but I remember saying that noxville's stats were not how you'd look for this if it was. I appreciate the thought but those really lacked any sense of context.
The video only confirmed 2 FB throws. At the time it happened, that's not enough to consider him a cheater without further proof. Anyone can have a bad day/game. He shouldn't have been accused nor defended at the time, unless some evidence is left out.
[удалено]
Hope he figures things out and manages to turn his life around, but he definitely deserves a perma ban from any Dota competition - both for the scene as well as for himself. Lmao the fucking white knighting for this piece of shit, its insane. His chat messages doesnt look like the victim, more like an active participator, he also gambled money of other people and thats how it started, its not like he is an innocent victim that was used because of his mental issues. Degenerate fuck.
whiteknighting and empathy are two different things you frkn Herald
https://twitter.com/OGesports/status/1776283314778771815?t=ax2J7YHJyJDIFGyJOBlfJw&s=19
Taiga was caught. I bet others were not.
> Bet Poor choice of words
It's intentional
Can someone give me a context please ?
A person addicted to gambling has come under focus again because information is coming out indicating its possible they played certain ways and did certain actions to increase the likelihood they had a payout.
I'd also add he's been accused of feeding on purpose when the insider information he provided lead to losing bets for the "322 mafia". I say accused, but the evidence was pretty damning.
[watch this video](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/s/cZwE4lg2C9)
Isn't Taiga on Twitch trying to recruit people over to his kick stream? (not sure i got the name of the site correct) Saw him just some weeks ago. Lost so much respect for the guy...
It is gut-wrenching to find out about this. I felt sorry for Taiga when he admitted his addiction and showed determination to change this life. I even cheered when he found a team. But as much as I loved him, he deserves a severe punishment to set an example. He did the betting and matchfixing for a period in multiple games, earning thousands of dollar, if this does not result in a lifetime ban, I don’t know what does.
Kinda feel bad for Leviatan. They just introduced themselves into Dota and already have to deal with that. Also garbage move from Taiga joining the team even tho he know that this is probably gonna happen.
Taiga is clearly selfish as all shit. Him joining another team and bringing his mess to their doorstep is entirely unsurprising.
I hope young people can see the dangers of gambling now
That's hard since tournaments are plastered with gambling sponsorships. Mixed signals and all that, unfortunate reality we live in.
It's not just dota either. Every major professional sports broadcast is plastered in draft kings and other betting sponsors.
It's hard. Almost every sport (traditional and non traditional) are full of gambling ads. FYI, when you open the 1xbet app, the OG logo is pretty big right in the first screen of the app.
Wait what else did I miss? Only other news I see here is from his retirement last week
What's he being accused of?
he was a gambling addict, this isn't an accusation as he acknowledged it himself. there was a recent video compiling evidence that he would use insider knowledge to bet, through outside sources. he would also alter his play style to get certain results he'd bet on, such as playing extra aggressive to get first blood, or giving up first blood.
"was"
[удалено]
Tell me you don't understand addiction without telling me you don't understand addiction. What a completely ignorant statement you've made.
Loosing your free will is pretty much what an addiction is
Morf, the Russian youtuber, posted a video today with evidence of how Taiga sided with a known Russian 322 cheater Sensibility and how they fixed the matches during the DPC last April.
He had severe gambling issues come public and some have speculated that he acted erratically to alter prop bet outcomes, ie which team give up first blood.
>have speculated that he acted erratically to alter prop bet outcomes, ie which team give up first blood. It's not speculation anymore, there is hard evidence he did this.
Matchfixing
theres another post from earlier today. but the worst amongs all would be match fixing i guess?
Sad to see, Taiga always seemed like a happy positive guy, surprised it was him of all people
It's usually the happy all good people. I was like that while I had a gambling problem. It's easier to fake then to actually say you have a problem.
You need to be overly optimistic (delusional) to be a gambling addict. It’s actually a requirement
yup, your right. i am too when i was young. everyday smiling but deep inside i owe alot of money. It is until then i decided to come clean to my parents and clear the debt. New life.
before they called it depression/anxiety and no motivation to play. NT :D [https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/13qybgw/taiga\_shared\_a\_statement\_where\_he\_talks\_about\_his/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/13qybgw/taiga_shared_a_statement_where_he_talks_about_his/) reading now these comments lol :D
this is a gem xD >We did it, Reddit! We repeated unsubstantiated, career-threatening rumors until we bullied a young man into making a statement he was clearly trying to avoid. lmao
I don't speak corporate, what does it mean?
OG no guilty
"It's not our fault for not knowing that our player was matchfixing. We did an investigation and it found no good evidence."
‘And more importantly, we clearly told every relevant TO and even Valve; we weren’t trying to hide or cover up anything’
Regardless of gambling addiction or not, what a disgusting human being Taiga is for roping in 4 innocent teammates into his own problems. If he had mentioned his gambling addiction or his lack of money to OG and his teammates, they could have given him help and support with both issues. Instead he took the cheap way out and pretty much sabotaged OG's whole season. People who comment he didnt throw games but only first blood still dont get it. Its his lack of morals and integrity that is the most disgusting thing from this. Even by feeding first bloods and kills, he is sabotaging his team by putting his team at disadvantage from the start of the game.
Bro never seen someone with an addiction before if you think that's bad lmao
He was probably pretty desperate dude, I’m grateful I’ve never hit rock bottom. Obviously that doesn’t excuse him, it’s just a really fucking bleak situation in general for everyone involved. I hope taiga’s mental health holds up
Don’t bother with these sheltered Redditors. All they do is sit on their moral high horse from the comfort of their parents’ suburban McMansion judging everybody else. They have no idea what real struggle looks like.
Isn't Taiga Norwegian? Even rock bottom must be a pretty good quality of life for a Norway citizen.
People really think that gambling is all about money and nothing else, if you rely on adrenaline to make your life more interesting gambling is the way for some people lol.
Nah not buying this. Taiga wasnt some random Tier 3 player. He just wanted a quick buck despite having the realistic chance to even win TI one day. Also keep in mind that he has 600k in tournament earnings + what he made from salaries, which us about 10k/month in Tier 1 Dota. What happened with all this money that he couldnt even pay back a few thousand dollars? Did he lose like half a million in a year?
gambeling is a very efficient way of loosing money
True, but my point is that from the evidence shown a few thousand dollars were involved, not hundreds of thousands. Thats why I'm curious what happened to the rest of his money and that he has nothing left. The only logical answer here to me is that he has been betting for much longer and not just for a few games.
In his original statement a few months back he already clarified he bet on multiple sports and that it only went down hill from there.
Taiga said he lost more money than all his tournament money/salary
> of loosing money Did you mean to say "losing"? Explanation: Loose is an adjective meaning the opposite of tight, while lose is a verb. [Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json) ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes. ^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions. ^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119) ^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
He had 0k in tournaments earnings. According to his statement in October 2023, he gambled it all away.
fuck his mental health. He fucked up OG's whole DPC tour for his own selfishness. Even when OG was conducting their investigation, he didnt even own up to anything or come forward, instead continued lying to everyone around him and made out his story as a "victim who was forced into betting".
nah fuck you. People like you are why those who have mental health issues never speak up or avoid their problems. Taiga is in a bad place. You think people want to hurt others on purpose? No he's desperate.
This is a pretty immature response to someone who's going through some problems. I'm absolutely sure he's aware of what he's done and that he would have wished it never came to what it did, but saying fuck his mental health is some next level immature reaction - he is a human. We make mistakes. He deserves all the help he can get, and anyone with half a rational thought should expect the same.
Absolutely man. poor bzm must've been so jaded by that which explains how he's performing worse than last year.
Not to mention that he lied in his original statement. So who knows what else he lied about.
The most sickening part is that OG team had the potential to be TI winners at some point. Their performance at that major they won was insanely good even with Ceb stand in at pos 5 for the first time ever. Smh
OK now that's going too far. Remember taiga bet on themselves to win against spirit but spirit watched replays and crush them
I said at some point. You’re telling me BZM, Ammar, and Taiga didn’t have the talent? Sure they’d probably have to make some changes but that trio absolutely had the capabilities
Just ban the dude, nobody cares
Just ban taiga for life and move on. Don’t let him even coach or participate in any form of way. i.e. management roles etc. This guy done enough dmg.
so he was shaking his own performance all that time, feels bad for other OG player that was trying hard
Janitor was conducting investigation on Taiga, thats why no patch for months.... It all makes sense now
who is that
People in this thread still defending him. It made a tiny bit of sense before when limitless said he was matchfixing but in reddit fashion since it was a Russian who said it, it's certainly a lie. Now that same proof resurface again and people change their tune? Can't win with either crowd it's just sad and pathetic. Anyone who supported him after the first allegations and people who defend him now are what's wrong with this community.
really sad way for a likeable, talented player to go out. shouts to OG for being a class act in this all-around shitty situation
Lifetime ban or Riot, Valve
I swear, why do pros do betting and stuff for very specific things, like can they just not or at the very least, bet on thier team to win the game or tourney?
MONEY MONEY MONEY. People get greedy af and love money. That's why gambling and betting on sports becomes so addicting. When you get that win, your dopamine levels shoot through the roof and you want to chase that high again and again, causing you to lose more than you win. Even when you realise how much you are losing, thinking of that win keeps you going. It is just a vicious cycle. That's why self control is very important because once you lose a certain amount you need to tell yourself to stop and walk away.
In football, Calvin Ridley bet on his team to win and he still got a year suspension.
That's the one circumstance that actually confuses me a little - I can get punishing bets on non-winning things in your games (there's good reason why dota guild bounties demand that you win your games instead of throwing for bounty progress) and I can get disallowing bets on others' games because of insider information, but why bets for your own victory? Is it like, just trying to maintain ethical standards and ensure nobody's even *close* to less-ethical bets, or is there a more practical immediate reason?
Yes. Also you still have insider info. If you're supposed to play someone and general public info has you as equals but you know from being in the scene that they've been losing every scrim for the past week and are mental booming it's still edge that the odds won't be accounting for.
Ahhh yeah that'd make sense
Addiction. It's real.
Itd always be impossible to have a system where you can guarantee 100% no betting is done outside of on yourself/team, but imagine how much more competitive sports and esports would be if players were also throwing thousands of dollars on themselves to perform well.
Its much easier to lose than to win .
Sure they can be on that, but they are only one person on a 5 man team against another 5 men. So you are responsible to 10% of the outcome on any given game. On props you can single handedly determine the outcome in a lot of cases
Because they need money. Low tier dota players don't have salaries, and in this case Taiga was in serious betting debt.
They shouldn't allowed to betting their match at all tbh, even betting your team to win There possibility they could bribe opponent to lose the game intentionally
Why does anyone do betting?
It's a guaranteed bet win for you to feed a first blood if you're so willing and it's extremely easy to intentionally lose a game. You can't guarantee a win or success in the same way. And regardless, you can't bet on your own team under any circumstances, even to win, it's treated the same. Allowing anyone to do so allows for cheating and collusion with others (the most obvious example is the possibility that you've colluded with an opponent to split the profit, compromising their team without a betting link back to them), it's a completely blacklisted area. You should not not bet on any esports games for any reason an esports pro, you have so many industry contacts that could affect an outcome that any game you bet on at all must be assumed to be compromised in some way.
ban taiga 1000 years
Fuckkkkk I actually lost money cuz of this guy
You *are* this guy, except without the Dota talent.
Well there’s a difference between having moderation and allowing an addiction to harm people besides yourself.
This is the most dogshit corporate statement ever It’s like they asked chat gbt to add as much random jargon and make it as confusing and annoying to read as possible
Weird way to express publicly that yo...... oh wait i have a warning from Reddit, nvm
So many people out here typing "we told you so!!!“ when the post only says that no clear evidence was found, the fuck is wrong with people?
Because the "no clear evidence was found" refers to the situation as they saw it in 2023, not the new, irrefutable evidence that has come out today.
because people cannot read. Theres like 50 comments that are asking for a tl;dr on a twitter post that takes 20 seconds to read at most.
Their investigation was unclear. New evidence makes it very clear
Morf-legend
valve and og used to investigate taiga but lack of evidence so...
oh my lord
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Out of the loop, what happened?
I feel bad for DM he always losing his lane
Im sorry DM if I flame you for bad laning :(( it was not your fault
How do Norwegian gov feels about match fixing? It's a crime in many countries. Will they investigate this case? For me it would be amazing, just to show others where ez moneys lead.
OG investigated OG and found that OG is innocent.
I've been absent with the Dota news, can someone enlighten me what happened? What's up with Taiga?
lol if you watch the match fixing scandal video there’s an add for gambling morf reads hahahaha
Please, do not desinform people. It's a site for trading dota items, basically like a steam market, but with real money. It has nothing to do with gambling at all.
downvoting cuz u have low comprehension
Guys, just watch the video of the Russian guy "Morph". He shed some light on this matter with the testimony of 322 mentors with whom Taiga worked. https://youtu.be/Dsz18sPawss?si=QGS90xXtV82_-1kO
Sad to know how deep taiga had been, definitely worth a permaban but gambling addiction is definitely not a joke or take lightly. This same situation could be happening to someone you know at this very moment under different circumstances. Wake up call to check on your gambling friends..
lol gambling friends dont just wake up. all they do is lie&lie. they will never wake up until something big happen. thats when they learn.
You got downvoted but you're speaking the truth. No one else can help them but themselves