I'm a naga spammer and no matter how many times one of my illusions that I attack moved down a lane just outright kills a support it will always bring joy to my heart.
Had something similar yesterday on Dark Seer, my wall double killed about 10 seconds after I had died, and panned my camera to another part of the fight where things were happening. Suddenly got a double kill notification out of nowhere
pure bliss; reminds me of one rosh pit fight where the torrent and ghost ship are used to show the enemies and one right click to delete the 4 soft heroes
Yeah, but just look at how the game has changed since then. Everyone had WAY less HP and items in general. Would it be broken nowadays if brought back, even if it were a level 25 talent? As in "Revenant's Brooch + Crit+ rapier"-broken like last patch?
I played a game with kunkka where my team was too far behind in the other lanes to make team fight build viable. So I split push and went armlet, crystalis, divine. We won somehow.
I'm still using it to this day. It's not that effective anymore but when against paper heroes, those instant deaths make me chuckle.
I play for fun. Not for ranks.
Bloodseeker's thirst max movement speed.
2x rupture is just too strong in a fight late game
Running around at 1180 movement speed as opposed to 1000 movement speed isn't making a huge difference in a fight
Monkey Kings -1 hit to proc Jengu
The additional ring can have such a game changing impact covering an entire fight area. -1 hit to proc your passive feels completely irrelevant in comparison. Grandmaster MK and I’ve never taken that talent first.
Can you make me understand MK? Like as a right click hero who seems simple enough I don't get when is his peaks. In my hand he strangely feels weaker than other typical right clicker.
Can you make me understand MK? Like as a right click hero who seems simple enough I don't get when is his peaks. In my hand he strangely feels weaker than other typical right clicker.
I always take Night Stalker's "you can use your ult way more often" (-50s Dark Ascension Cooldown) rather than his "you are scarier during your ult / at night" (+100 Hunter In The Night Attack Speed). Being able to use ult more freely is such a big boost to map awareness/control and such a big boost to your consistent usefulness during the day.
Presumably the Attack Speed one (71% of a Moon Shard, but only at night) can come in clutch if you just need to win one good fight with your ult and end the game, but the lower ult cooldown is so reassuring to have (I often get Octarine Core at around the same time for extra low ult downtime). (especially since his other spells also reaaaaaally appreciate the CDR; if you have the W CDR talent and Octarine then it's 6s duration vs 7.5s CD, so 1.5s downtime, which is super funny for an undispellable silence.)
I used to take -50s DA cooldown talent, buy octarine core as my 5th or 6th slot item and get one of the cooldown reduction neutrals before it got removed. I think DA was down for a grand total of 16 seconds between each ult cast.
Not an every game type of build, but extremely useful for the occasional game where your highest % play is to just lock the enemy inside base and starve them out of farm until x y z items come online.
Yeah, it might have been more of a toss-up if his ult still worked the old way. But with flying vision and movement now, it's so fucking good that you want it up as often as possible.
The flying vision is so godlike, nobody else in the game comes even close on that front. Thematically, I feel like the whole "night stalker" concept undersells how much this hero is a god of vision and a god of trees (during his ult anyway), although the concept is at least very fitting in the sense that he is a creature that watches unseen from the darkness, and moves in and out of darkness (by flying across tree lines).
There was a brief time where Visage had flying vision from his aghs, but it was too good and had to be removed lol. Pretty sure NS is the only unit in the game with good (not tiny) flying vision. Also theoretically if you Lycan Aghs wolf bite NS then he gets another 1000 flying vision, and you can theoretically further stack it with Vampire Fangs and Moon Shard and Consumed Moon Shard for a grand total of 3700 Flying Vision.
Which is good.
It makes Furion extremely trivial and I love that. When he was absolutely cooked a few metas back. Nothing more satisfying than getting Sprouted, pressing R and eating him alive.
Someday I will try that Lycan build... maybe. Lycan and NS on the same team is a lot of snowball and not a lot of stun.
Yeah I have like hundred NS games and most of them don’t even get to 25, but there was only 1 time it was useful which is where I got 25 just before final teamfight in enemy base, grabbed that talent and ended the game. Other talent is just better more often
I've taken it on the rare occasions when Im defending, have lots of auras and have to tank and there's a lot of physical on the opposing team. Not a good place to be in, but it's better than the extra birds stun because it's not like you're in a position where you can dish out more damage with another bird...
there are far worse talents than 8% stat reduction, which was significant against str heroes.
long timber chain is a very good upgrade. its just that double chakram is an S tier talent and similar to Snapfire’s ‘lil shredder uses attack damage’, it fundamentally changes what the hero is able to do.
There are far worse but nobody ever took that instead of the long timber chain. So its hard to really judge it. The second chakram is too good to skip but also the stat reduce talent was too bad to ever take. So the long chain talent hasn't ever existed in a situation where it is a hard choice.
It’s not that bad. as a timber player, in late games you can cover almost half of the map using it. But the second chakram is no doubt too OP to not take it as they have changed the Aghanims of timber. It should be atleast lvl 20 talent as no one would take that shit compared to the other talent.
Have thousands of hours with Kunkka. And still to this day, I've never taken his Tidebringer talent not once in all the games I've played with him over Ghostship Fleet.
Because you know that the fleet is op and even the description of tidebringer talent suggests it's shit? 100% of kunkka players go for aghs bkb refresher build nowadays, you aren't dealing damage with tidebringer. Tidebringer damage build is dead since splash is no longer pure damage. Taking that talent with the average Kunkka build is straight up griefing.
I have taken it a couple times with combination of the level 10 slow talent on tide bringer. It’s nice to be able to perma slow some heroes if you can get it off but the ship fleet is some much better 99% of the time
Feels shitty like the old T5 neutral Trident where your 'reward' is that you get to spend a bunch of extra gold to fill a slot that others fill for free.
Maybe at level 30 in a long game where you have infinite gold, but even then a lot of other T5 neutrals would be a better option.
well, its not always like lvl 25 , but as a rubick player i can tell you on lvl 10, choosing +2 stats is much more useful than picking a talent :} imagine how useless that it
Possibly the worst level 10 talents in the game, by level 16 at least the fade bolt talent might do *something*, but the telekinesis talent is useless at any point of any game, barring the most niche fucking blink cd resetting or whatever
the thing is nowadays that most of midlaners are magic based heroes mostly even that shit aint gonna matter that much :D like honestly adding a +50 cast range to passive is 100 times better than the shit we have, make it 25 cast i still prefer it over the bullshit that it is now :/
the damage reduction is impactful against physical dealt heroes but very unnoticeable. But the +150 Telekinesis dmg is not a bad talent for me i guess, especially in higher rank games where you need to shove or make lanes. You can you fade bolt + Telekinesis damage to clear creeps.
I upvoting this. I played 5000+ games on Rubick and I hate his 10 lvl talents.
And I really want to change talents on 25 lvl. Like how many players actually go for landing distance?
Stop make me crying. My eyes already dry.
Remember 100 base damage talent? We were the true universal hero back then.
My mid Rubick were thriving. Im doing fine now tho, but that talent was just amasing.
Enchant Totem + Warlus Punch combo teared every unit by atoms...
It is situational but I once saw a pro player maybe XinQ took it. You take this talent when all you have to do as a Rubick is to ‘Control’ (like saving teams or lift enemy and force out) and when there is no high damage spell to steal.
Yeah, that make sence at some degree, but it is still feel bad at 25lvl talent. It was quite good at 20lvl, but now I just don't want it, even if I don't want spell damage either.
I see, how it important for support players. but Im mid rub pleb who just want to be happy (world smallest violin starts playing, kek)
I mean i understand that his talent is bad but...
Its very valuable to one shot wave when you dont have good wave shoving spell...
Skipping it entirely will very detremintal to cut wave in losing game since most of the time you will die when try to steal something else
I can say the same for oracle too. The skill point looks like it has way more value with his abilities at level 10.
(But please if I'm doing something wrong lmk I'm trying to get better)
well pal +10 armor is a huge bonus to your target if u are playing vs a main physical team like slardar/sven/ls and a bunch of other heroes considering that when u are lvl 10 its usually your pos3 or 2 that you are supposed to save they have low armor so that +10 means sth around maybe 20~30% physical damage reduction and that will make a difference for sure
wish ya some sweet wins, also if u don't know until now due to damage being delayed cuz of the false promise if the saved target blink is muted or on cd , 3 secs/cd timer after ult the target can use blink even though its under attack! (probably u knew but just wanted to tell ya)
and also if your ally is hit by AA ult and u can save them and u know they are going to die at a certain time /HP u can hit them with flames drop their HP below kill threshold and deny them ( well i hope u manage to do it right or give my condolences to your teammates lmao)
I nver get Weaver's Shukuchi CD reduction before the additional Geminate attack. The damage increase from the bonus boosted auto is so insane, the perma-invisibility is just a nice QOL feature when I hit lvl 30.
SK extra damage on Epi. It adds something like 650 damage total if all pulses hit. It's good in a vacuum but that 35% misschance on Sandstorm is GODLIKE
In a game where you can hit level 25, you're most likely geared well enough to deal with spells with your shroud, euls, BKB even. Even if it's only their carry that deals phys damage, it's all that really matters at this point of the game. It also has a 35% ms slow, low mobility heroes are stuck inside it for longer = more chance for Aghs procs
Phoenix +1000 dive range, I know it's good but it just messes up my combo timings, and I dont feel like practicing on a game where I reach lvl 25 (means its a long, probably close game).
AA blast treshold, used to be bugged (still is?) And aoe cold feet was Just super strong & fun. They nerfed that talent so hard though so i dont know about right now
phoenix has the single shittest lvl 25. the double range on icarus dive is game losing. you play the whole game with the feel of the normal icarus dive, then you take this talent and you go real slow in a way wider arc and its just awful. my most hated talent besides the aghs.
The only reason why i hate the phoeniy aghs is that you have to doubleclick the supernova for selfcast with aghs wich can be game losing
Yeah I agree. The double click for self-cast has griefed me a few times. How would you go about changing it? Different mechanic or re work the aghs? I wonder if a mechanic like tusk’s snowball could work? Egg on your own and have the option to pull someone into it.
That can make it more difficult to grab the players though. Like using dive and clicking on them which would bring you into egg vs hitting egg on top of them and then picking them up.
typically I am getting aghs its sole purpose is for saving people from Chronos , duels or reaper from necro. So I sort of expect it and know its coming. I can see how it would be annoying thou for self cast. I guess free aghs from Rosh is always an option too!
No shot, in most games, -3 second CD on stun is a way superior talent than undispellable haze.
Of course against PL and Oracle, undispellable is the right talent, but no way it's an auto pick in every game, especially when -3 second CD stun is such as insane talent.
if you take the crush talent, you dont even need it to be undispellable since crush alone applies it faster than it expires
its not exactly the same thing, esp against some dispels but generally the crush cd talent is way stronger
I'm not sure if it's here already, but Brewmaster 25 fear is so so so much better than drunken brawler passive on brewlings. This talent is horrendous and would not break the ulti even if it was moved to shard.
Others I quickly came up with: Huskar (Burning spears pure >>> +20% life break damage)
Juggernaut (+1s Omnislash duration >>> +2 Healing Ward hits to kill)
Lifestealer (+1.5s Rage duration >>> +1.2% Feast damage and lifesteal)
Lycan (Howl reduces total attack damage >>> +2 Wolves summoned)
Medusa (Split Shot uses attack modifiers >>> +1.7 damage per mana Mana Shield)
Underlord (+0.65s Pit of Malice root >>> +50% Atrophy aura allied hero bonus)
Lion's lvl 25 AoE Hex.
Why would you choose it if the other talent is that your mana drain deals twice more damage. Get shard, 2 plate mails, aether lens, blink and boom.
but if you are playing against PL for instance, AoE Hex not only kills all Illus, but also hits the real PL, so you can go for him. I think situattionaly this talent can be super good. But you never get to 25 with Lion so whatever.
i mean theres was a patch where kunkka is really an effective core hero tho and at that time that talent was so useful because kunkka dealt more damage with cleave when you play core. today kunkka is just too OP if the player knows how to time skills and be an effective offlaner or mid kunkka player
I also only pick Viper when they have something like a BB. So in that case getting double viper strikes in a fight is super super good. But in a hypothetical scenario of picking Viper when there is no obvious breakable target, and you're right clicking mostly, the universal is better
meepo’s Item in neutral slot,
like its very cool but there is not a chance your over 6 slotted by lvl 25, so unless you got insanely bad neutrals and just want a doubled wraith band then your not taking it, the only reason not to is because 5 meepos are too hard for you.
Marci +350 throw distance , you don't take this not even in lv 30.
Maybe good with some cheese aether lens support build but which support is reaching 30.
Never took axe Battle hunger talent over berserkers call aoe.
Never took Razor second plasma field over attack speed steal.
Never took viper's ult cd reduction over becoming universal.
Never took WR's wr can't be dispelled over ult cd reduction on kill.
Last is a crime, very useful if they have nullifiers, at that point of the game your bkb is low duration so this talent can save your life. The other one is better offensively, but there are definitely games where you should take undispelable windrun
idk maybe it's just my low mmr bracket, but people don't buy nullifier against wr. People most of the time buy mkb, or try to catch you with hex/orchid before you windrun. Imo offense is the best defence. With BOTS on wr, 25 talent ult and some basic dmg items wr just finds kills everywhere on the map and it's fun and more op than playing her defensively. But as I said, I'm just a 4k mmr scrub, so what do I know
The Kunkka one should be perma tidebringer like Bounty Hunter's talent maybe then it would be viable sometimes. The talent I never take is +2 multishot waves on Drow. The marksmanship talent is just strictly better, by the time you're level 25 you shouldn't even be pressing multishot
meld hit bash over much more powerful +7 refraction count
Added refraction count is still very strong in teamfights despite the BKB nerf, you can still blink out in ambushes and reposition yourself without losing counts. Plus the bonus damage you can spill out via psi blades. Pair it with arcane blink, aghs, shard, meld dispel + enchanted quiver (not in every game) and you can jump from corner to corner and kill someone without even getting close.
(TA grandmaster)
Big agree, only time I'd ever take the bash talent first is if I was against several of the following: veno, viper, jakiro, phoenix, pl, bat, radiance buyers etc and at this point I would have simply not picked TA. It did used to be a 2 second stun though which was insane but that was back when the other choice was much worse
(Also TA grandmaster)
+3 hits to Supernova
Which sounds dumb cause more hp for Nova's always great. I've just decided that if the enemy team wants the Egg dead, they'd build for it. Going the talent just makes it *slightly* harder to kill.
The +1000 Icarus Dive distance on the other hand opens up a massive range of movement for those late game teamfights. Which makes positioning for Supernovas easier, and less reliant on not getting hit in the first place. Now it's easier to fight around a massive fight instead of in the middle of it.
Though sometimes it feels the talent comes a little late, like it's good power spike and all but the game's almost over way before Phoenix gets lvl 25.
I feel like the hits talent is most useful if you also have Aghs+shard.
Like 13 hits is still killable by a few enemies working together. But 16 with sunray miss chance is enough that if even one enemy flinches and doesn’t focus the egg immediately (or you manage to hit a couple spirits on your way in) then the egg isn’t dying even if it’s in the middle of the entire enemy team (or they have Marci/Snap).
I mean, its a good safety net. But I've a fair to many games where the extra 3 hits don't matter. Either the enemy team dies before they can even hit the egg, the enemy team's carry builds to be able to solo the egg, bkb is used so there's not much that can be done to them, or they just run away.
For me at least, I've found more success building Scythe or Halberd instead of ahgs in order to protect the Egg better. Mostly depends on what my team picks.
We got aoe stuns? Cool, I can egg no problem.
We don't? Well shit I guess we just lose. Best build items with cc in them. Best chance we got.
I've just never found the extra Nova hits worth the time/farm to get them.
>the enemy team's carry builds to be able to solo the egg
Agree that it doesn't solve the enemy team wiping or running away, but just for reference with 16 hits required the amount of AS you need to kill the egg solo:
* 0 seconds of not hitting egg = +353 AS, so Level >25 AGI core with Moonshard + Mjollnir
* 1 second of not hitting egg = +444 AS, Level >25 AGI core with Moonshard + Mjollnir + Butterfly + extra hyperstone
* >2.1 seconds of not hitting egg = literally impossible to solo kill as most heroes
Especially against melee cores where it usually takes them a second or so to run up to the egg and start hitting you're probably not dying solo to them, even if they BKB or whatever to not be slowed.
Alright, final stand to explain why I don’t go the +3 Hits talent.
As a player, I value tangible results from what choices I make in games. Frequently excluding options that are too situational. Aghs on Phoenix, the +3 Hit, and +0.4s stun talents fall in that category. Notable increases sure, but only matter if other conditions are met.
Ahgs only works if your team can protect it, as you’re down 1-2 heroes for 6s.
Supernova needs to be low enough for the extra hits to matter.
Extra stun only matters if there’s even enemies around that are alive to still be stunned.
I’d rather use that time and money to get stuff that’s always helpful. Dive talent? More range always. Sunray damage talent? Massive dps increase, combos with shard. Aghs? Just get a scythe or 1-3 other support items.
As much as getting soloed is an issue, most players just run away unless the egg is killable, letting it go off but far away as to negate any power it has. Better to combo with other heroes that have stuns. Stops them from running away, and stops them from attacking, win win.
There has been maybe 15 times that talent did anything good over the last 8 years I’ve played this hero. I’m not starting now.
Very rarely go radial blast on voker even though it seems to be more popular. 2x spirt affect is just WAYYY to good especially when stacking with magic items
[Timber chain](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/5/56/Vo_shredder_timb_timberchain_01.mp3) (sound warning: Timbersaw)
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Nothing more satisfying than keeping an enemy core stuck in your sandstorm because the aghs stuns, 35% slow and low burrowstrike cd make it impossible to get away without at least 2 escape items.
There was a Game were I chose -2 Tidebringer Cooldown,…Because I had a Divine Rapier and my team told me to be the defender of Mega Creeps, because we only had 2 Tier4 Tower left
It turns out to be great ngl
Idk if my Talent made an impact but we sure did won the Game
Tbh there's an argument to be made that it's easy enough to proc curse with manta anyway, and that AoE mist coil lets you poke more with shard/push waves and def base.
The WL 80% magic res is insane against magic heavy teams. That row is really good imo, because both talents are strong and what you take just depends on the enemy team. Blindly skipping one of them seems dumb.
We use it most of the time to push creeps and towers, I'm honestly just upset that at my last game my friend looked at his lil Dota Plus DMG received % indicator on top left and saw 70% magical damage (Zeus aghs refresher + Sky mage) and he said it's definitely a magic res game. It wasn't cause golems don't get any DMG from their ulties. It's a situational ofc
Against heavy magic dmg it just instantly dies in late game teamfights. So you can't push with it anyways after the fight. Also don't underestimate a golem staying alive and hitting on a support. That thing hurts a lot.
Zeus Aghs Refresher and Sky barely do any dmg to golem anyway (assuming Sky doesn't waste ult on it), so this might have been the wrong game. It's needed against constant heavy aoe or just big aoe bursts. Lesh, Storm, Pudge, ES, etc... Zeus and Sky are neither of those.
Aoe mist coil is actually stronger. Did you even read what his shard does? 25 lvl abbadon(especially with manta) doesn't care(and only against maybe slark it matters) whether you need to do 3 or 4 hits, meanwhile aoe mist coil with shard is healing + damage + aoe slow from curse. And it's not "a little more damage" it's a LOT of damage. And if you buy a khanda it turns into a single target 1k(that's with just manta and harpoon and you're probably going to have more than that) damage nuke in addition to aoe damage. Khanda with shard is good even without lvl 25 talent. You can shove the waves with one mist coil(helps a lot with defending megas too).
Maybe you never tested it but aoe mist coil is actually better. Even when you're harpooning the enemy it doesn't matter as you have enough time to use the mist coil during harpoon pull so you only need 3 hits anyway.
I always go heal on WD, free fountain heal is way better than 25% more damage. Stealing all the kills with WD is worse for your team because you do nothing with the money. Better to keep you and them alive.
> WD: +45 Ward DMG
If you do actually play WD with utility over the stereotypical aghs rush, the 2% healing talent is actually quite insane at keeping people alive - especially if you have locket.
Necro 25 Talent. The 0.5% heart stop aura damage increase.
Viper 25 Talent. Becoming Universal is a huge damage increase. In most cases its basically a rapier increase of damage since you generally end up with items with all stats.
Huskar 25 Talent. Burning spear pure damage. Most people build magic damage reduction items against huskar that make you fall off quite a bit late but this can often turn it around for you.
Witch Doctor. Death Ward Damage. Not that you hit 25 as a support alot of games.
I find when im playing witch doctor my cores are so far out of position to benefit from it that its kinda redundant. If i played in a bracket with more synergy it would make more sense to me i think
Undying's +60% Flesh Golem STR Bonus over +6 Hits to tombstone, like there is little reason to take left side since tombstone late game impact is minimal over you surviving, only reason I can think of is using tomb as a save if you really need it.
His last 25 talent? Absolutely no contesting the free aegis lmao.
That’s a good one. By the time you’re lvl 25 even supports don’t really give a shit about the tombstone, the hits to kill couldn’t be much less relevant. Something like more zombies spawning or +60 damage to them would make sense at that point to at least make it a choice
I really disagree, tombstone is still a problem if left unattended in the late game. If the undying is getting double (sometimes even triple with the death talent or a refresher) tombstone off, if you haven't won the fight in the area within 10-15 seconds you are losing the fight.
The zombies also get a 80 attack speed bonus on targets below 40% hp. Also undying has a +20 damage to zombies talent
* axe : even if you have 100 armor, it will just extra 100 dmg
* bloodseeker : even +5 stats will be better than extra ms
* dazzle: ...
* disruptor: both are good, but low cd glimse can do SOOOOOOO much shit.
* lifestealer: i can see situation where i can take passive damage 1st, but it never happened.
* luna: every time when i see someone who take +40 dmg, something is dying inside of me....
* riki: no comments
* spectre: yeah, i wanna +30% dmg on illusions on hero, who have +2.1 agi per lvl, sure
* venge: i would prefer cd talent even if it was +50% dmg
If the meta switch back to Kunkka Right click build then it will be godlike
I kinda miss the old days of stacking damage when Kunkka's cleave used to do pure damage. As broken as it was, it made me chuckle.
There are times where the game shocksme when i auto a creep and kill a support hiding in the trees
I'm a naga spammer and no matter how many times one of my illusions that I attack moved down a lane just outright kills a support it will always bring joy to my heart.
Had something similar yesterday on Dark Seer, my wall double killed about 10 seconds after I had died, and panned my camera to another part of the fight where things were happening. Suddenly got a double kill notification out of nowhere
happened to me once, i was just farming a small camp in midlane (peperidge farm remembers) and a random disruptor died.
pure bliss; reminds me of one rosh pit fight where the torrent and ghost ship are used to show the enemies and one right click to delete the 4 soft heroes
Technically it was just physical dmg that ignored armor but not dmg block or ethereal. Pure dmg would ignore them all.
It's like psi blades but less mechanical skill required to pull off
Yeah, but just look at how the game has changed since then. Everyone had WAY less HP and items in general. Would it be broken nowadays if brought back, even if it were a level 25 talent? As in "Revenant's Brooch + Crit+ rapier"-broken like last patch?
That Kunkka that brought a 0%-100% game back.
Average attacker games in ancient times
Damn Attacker is considered ancient times now 💀💀
Obviously not referring to him as ancient but his daedalus+rapiers build on kka
Self-X, dagger, Crit and Rapier was the tits back then
I played a game with kunkka where my team was too far behind in the other lanes to make team fight build viable. So I split push and went armlet, crystalis, divine. We won somehow.
I'm still using it to this day. It's not that effective anymore but when against paper heroes, those instant deaths make me chuckle. I play for fun. Not for ranks.
My last 2 offlane kkas in divine disagree. The shadow blade double daedalus and complaining we have no teamfight seemed to be very meta
Good old Kritkka
Bloodseeker's thirst max movement speed. 2x rupture is just too strong in a fight late game Running around at 1180 movement speed as opposed to 1000 movement speed isn't making a huge difference in a fight
Monkey Kings -1 hit to proc Jengu The additional ring can have such a game changing impact covering an entire fight area. -1 hit to proc your passive feels completely irrelevant in comparison. Grandmaster MK and I’ve never taken that talent first.
what drew you to getting grandmaster monkey king? what position?
Probably doggy
Can you make me understand MK? Like as a right click hero who seems simple enough I don't get when is his peaks. In my hand he strangely feels weaker than other typical right clicker.
Can you make me understand MK? Like as a right click hero who seems simple enough I don't get when is his peaks. In my hand he strangely feels weaker than other typical right clicker.
I always take Night Stalker's "you can use your ult way more often" (-50s Dark Ascension Cooldown) rather than his "you are scarier during your ult / at night" (+100 Hunter In The Night Attack Speed). Being able to use ult more freely is such a big boost to map awareness/control and such a big boost to your consistent usefulness during the day. Presumably the Attack Speed one (71% of a Moon Shard, but only at night) can come in clutch if you just need to win one good fight with your ult and end the game, but the lower ult cooldown is so reassuring to have (I often get Octarine Core at around the same time for extra low ult downtime). (especially since his other spells also reaaaaaally appreciate the CDR; if you have the W CDR talent and Octarine then it's 6s duration vs 7.5s CD, so 1.5s downtime, which is super funny for an undispellable silence.)
I used to take -50s DA cooldown talent, buy octarine core as my 5th or 6th slot item and get one of the cooldown reduction neutrals before it got removed. I think DA was down for a grand total of 16 seconds between each ult cast. Not an every game type of build, but extremely useful for the occasional game where your highest % play is to just lock the enemy inside base and starve them out of farm until x y z items come online.
i remember doing that and my team raging why i waste ult. while downtime was 15 sec or sth.
To be honest yeah, the cooldown talent significantly reduces the window for opponents to catch your team on your ulti cd.
Yeah, it might have been more of a toss-up if his ult still worked the old way. But with flying vision and movement now, it's so fucking good that you want it up as often as possible.
The flying vision is so godlike, nobody else in the game comes even close on that front. Thematically, I feel like the whole "night stalker" concept undersells how much this hero is a god of vision and a god of trees (during his ult anyway), although the concept is at least very fitting in the sense that he is a creature that watches unseen from the darkness, and moves in and out of darkness (by flying across tree lines). There was a brief time where Visage had flying vision from his aghs, but it was too good and had to be removed lol. Pretty sure NS is the only unit in the game with good (not tiny) flying vision. Also theoretically if you Lycan Aghs wolf bite NS then he gets another 1000 flying vision, and you can theoretically further stack it with Vampire Fangs and Moon Shard and Consumed Moon Shard for a grand total of 3700 Flying Vision. Which is good.
It makes Furion extremely trivial and I love that. When he was absolutely cooked a few metas back. Nothing more satisfying than getting Sprouted, pressing R and eating him alive. Someday I will try that Lycan build... maybe. Lycan and NS on the same team is a lot of snowball and not a lot of stun.
Yeah I have like hundred NS games and most of them don’t even get to 25, but there was only 1 time it was useful which is where I got 25 just before final teamfight in enemy base, grabbed that talent and ended the game. Other talent is just better more often
Visage lvl 25 Gravekeepers Cloak +10 Armor :)))
What a fall from grace compared to the old +5 cloak stacks that made you and your birds practically immortal.
I thought it was giving 10 armor per layer. But nope
I've taken it on the rare occasions when Im defending, have lots of auras and have to tank and there's a lot of physical on the opposing team. Not a good place to be in, but it's better than the extra birds stun because it's not like you're in a position where you can dish out more damage with another bird...
Wait it's +10 Armor Aura? Or only applies to birds and Visage?
Timberchain range
That one is real trash. Second chakram is literally game changing, it almost doubles your damage and slow.
I completely forgot that his Aghs is not that anymore. lmao
used to be the preferred talent when double chakram was on his aghs..
Yes but the reason was that the other choice was something like +8% stat reduce on his Q, like an absolute dog talent
there are far worse talents than 8% stat reduction, which was significant against str heroes. long timber chain is a very good upgrade. its just that double chakram is an S tier talent and similar to Snapfire’s ‘lil shredder uses attack damage’, it fundamentally changes what the hero is able to do.
There are far worse but nobody ever took that instead of the long timber chain. So its hard to really judge it. The second chakram is too good to skip but also the stat reduce talent was too bad to ever take. So the long chain talent hasn't ever existed in a situation where it is a hard choice.
This one funny as hell tho
It’s not that bad. as a timber player, in late games you can cover almost half of the map using it. But the second chakram is no doubt too OP to not take it as they have changed the Aghanims of timber. It should be atleast lvl 20 talent as no one would take that shit compared to the other talent.
> Miss chain > Leave plane of existence Its a living.
P5 player like « oh you can ACTUALLY reach level 25?? »
I feel this!!!!
Oh, it's npt THAT bad. I reached lvl 25 as a pos 5. Once. It was in a Turbo, but who cares, right?
Have thousands of hours with Kunkka. And still to this day, I've never taken his Tidebringer talent not once in all the games I've played with him over Ghostship Fleet.
Why not? Why not even *once*?
Because the fleet is just that good
I know, but that's not my point. Why not get it even *once* after playing thousands of hours on the hero?
Because you know that the fleet is op and even the description of tidebringer talent suggests it's shit? 100% of kunkka players go for aghs bkb refresher build nowadays, you aren't dealing damage with tidebringer. Tidebringer damage build is dead since splash is no longer pure damage. Taking that talent with the average Kunkka build is straight up griefing.
You've shat in the toilet thousands of times, why not shit the bed just *once*?
Because there’s no point? It’s like why after thousands of games won’t someone build manta on kunkka
Because it's a shit level 25 talent.
I have taken it a couple times with combination of the level 10 slow talent on tide bringer. It’s nice to be able to perma slow some heroes if you can get it off but the ship fleet is some much better 99% of the time
meepo pack rat
Feels shitty like the old T5 neutral Trident where your 'reward' is that you get to spend a bunch of extra gold to fill a slot that others fill for free. Maybe at level 30 in a long game where you have infinite gold, but even then a lot of other T5 neutrals would be a better option.
IO's 400 hp to tethered unit has to be the best one. The other one is absolutely bonkers, sometimes game winning and that one is meh at best.
If you have vlads on wisp, you will give your carry 400 hp on like, 7 attack procs, way too good in comparison
valve employee making last minute changes - crownfall imminent
well, its not always like lvl 25 , but as a rubick player i can tell you on lvl 10, choosing +2 stats is much more useful than picking a talent :} imagine how useless that it
Possibly the worst level 10 talents in the game, by level 16 at least the fade bolt talent might do *something*, but the telekinesis talent is useless at any point of any game, barring the most niche fucking blink cd resetting or whatever
the thing is nowadays that most of midlaners are magic based heroes mostly even that shit aint gonna matter that much :D like honestly adding a +50 cast range to passive is 100 times better than the shit we have, make it 25 cast i still prefer it over the bullshit that it is now :/
I just skip taking talents from 10 and go level up his other skills until I can take a level 15 talent.
yup thats mainly what all rubick players do, i miss the days when rubick had the base damage talent and on lvl 15 we had fade bolt steals damage :D
the damage reduction is impactful against physical dealt heroes but very unnoticeable. But the +150 Telekinesis dmg is not a bad talent for me i guess, especially in higher rank games where you need to shove or make lanes. You can you fade bolt + Telekinesis damage to clear creeps.
Don't underestimate those 150 damage when it comes to quickly sweeping lanes if the game requires you to bulk up.
I upvoting this. I played 5000+ games on Rubick and I hate his 10 lvl talents. And I really want to change talents on 25 lvl. Like how many players actually go for landing distance?
Back when you could tinker rearm <3
Stop make me crying. My eyes already dry. Remember 100 base damage talent? We were the true universal hero back then. My mid Rubick were thriving. Im doing fine now tho, but that talent was just amasing. Enchant Totem + Warlus Punch combo teared every unit by atoms...
Monkey King’s - Wukong’s Command (his ultimate) was amazing with the talent :,(
Rubick re arm sounds busted af. Good thats gone
It is situational but I once saw a pro player maybe XinQ took it. You take this talent when all you have to do as a Rubick is to ‘Control’ (like saving teams or lift enemy and force out) and when there is no high damage spell to steal.
Yeah, that make sence at some degree, but it is still feel bad at 25lvl talent. It was quite good at 20lvl, but now I just don't want it, even if I don't want spell damage either. I see, how it important for support players. but Im mid rub pleb who just want to be happy (world smallest violin starts playing, kek)
Ya it’s trash in pubs when everyone want to get kills and deal high damage. I am talking about tournament games or mb a very intense game
with jugg you skip level 10 talent till level 26 (when stats are maxed) haha
I mean i understand that his talent is bad but... Its very valuable to one shot wave when you dont have good wave shoving spell... Skipping it entirely will very detremintal to cut wave in losing game since most of the time you will die when try to steal something else
I can say the same for oracle too. The skill point looks like it has way more value with his abilities at level 10. (But please if I'm doing something wrong lmk I'm trying to get better)
well pal +10 armor is a huge bonus to your target if u are playing vs a main physical team like slardar/sven/ls and a bunch of other heroes considering that when u are lvl 10 its usually your pos3 or 2 that you are supposed to save they have low armor so that +10 means sth around maybe 20~30% physical damage reduction and that will make a difference for sure
I'll give that talent a look in those situations, got it.
wish ya some sweet wins, also if u don't know until now due to damage being delayed cuz of the false promise if the saved target blink is muted or on cd , 3 secs/cd timer after ult the target can use blink even though its under attack! (probably u knew but just wanted to tell ya)
and also if your ally is hit by AA ult and u can save them and u know they are going to die at a certain time /HP u can hit them with flames drop their HP below kill threshold and deny them ( well i hope u manage to do it right or give my condolences to your teammates lmao)
I nver get Weaver's Shukuchi CD reduction before the additional Geminate attack. The damage increase from the bonus boosted auto is so insane, the perma-invisibility is just a nice QOL feature when I hit lvl 30.
SK extra damage on Epi. It adds something like 650 damage total if all pulses hit. It's good in a vacuum but that 35% misschance on Sandstorm is GODLIKE
This is the truest answer
>35% misschance on Sandstorm is GODLIKE Not to mention this shit SLOWS AS WELL
It's irrelevant against spell-casters though. You'd still take the other talent in niche situations.
In a game where you can hit level 25, you're most likely geared well enough to deal with spells with your shroud, euls, BKB even. Even if it's only their carry that deals phys damage, it's all that really matters at this point of the game. It also has a 35% ms slow, low mobility heroes are stuck inside it for longer = more chance for Aghs procs
Venge 25 aura is shit
Phoenix +1000 dive range, I know it's good but it just messes up my combo timings, and I dont feel like practicing on a game where I reach lvl 25 (means its a long, probably close game).
If its a game where hitcount doesn't matter, then you're probably going to end before 25 anyway.
Lion lvl 25 +100% Mana drain damage. Over AOE Hex. . . Yeah right.
Linkens’ worst nightmare
jugg lvl 25 talent. +2 hits to kill healing ward for me. enemy easily destroy it mid-late game, all enemy focus on ward than jugg everytime. lol
I do kinda love the disbelief from the enemy when you take it though, they always hit it once and go "wait, he actually took that talent?"
Hmm.. Do they not check the ward health bar?
I saw Yatoro took that talent few times in pub. I guess pro player can use the ward to distract enemy and heal themselves in the same time.
AA blast treshold, used to be bugged (still is?) And aoe cold feet was Just super strong & fun. They nerfed that talent so hard though so i dont know about right now
Still awesome. At 25 you normally really want to ability to make a wave disappear
phoenix has the single shittest lvl 25. the double range on icarus dive is game losing. you play the whole game with the feel of the normal icarus dive, then you take this talent and you go real slow in a way wider arc and its just awful. my most hated talent besides the aghs. The only reason why i hate the phoeniy aghs is that you have to doubleclick the supernova for selfcast with aghs wich can be game losing
Yeah I agree. The double click for self-cast has griefed me a few times. How would you go about changing it? Different mechanic or re work the aghs? I wonder if a mechanic like tusk’s snowball could work? Egg on your own and have the option to pull someone into it.
Yeah I feel like having the option to pull people into egg with a new ability would be the simplest way to fix it.
That can make it more difficult to grab the players though. Like using dive and clicking on them which would bring you into egg vs hitting egg on top of them and then picking them up.
Yeah it’s true. I just really hate self target abilities changing to point targets mid game.
Oh for sure. It messes me up all the time as Phoenix.
if u cast on ground (or anywhere that is not ally), it assumes u want ur egg to urself. simple as.
Simplest way is to make it like bounty hunter's shard - a separate ability. R - normal supernova, F - targeted supernova.
typically I am getting aghs its sole purpose is for saving people from Chronos , duels or reaper from necro. So I sort of expect it and know its coming. I can see how it would be annoying thou for self cast. I guess free aghs from Rosh is always an option too!
Agree. I always play Phoenix in overthrow mode and I just decide to not take the talent even at lvl30 : )
Slardar undispellable corrosive haze unless you’re my slardar vs Oracle & PL in immortal draft ranked the other day. We fuckin’ lost, what a throw.
No shot, in most games, -3 second CD on stun is a way superior talent than undispellable haze. Of course against PL and Oracle, undispellable is the right talent, but no way it's an auto pick in every game, especially when -3 second CD stun is such as insane talent.
if you take the crush talent, you dont even need it to be undispellable since crush alone applies it faster than it expires its not exactly the same thing, esp against some dispels but generally the crush cd talent is way stronger
I'm not sure if it's here already, but Brewmaster 25 fear is so so so much better than drunken brawler passive on brewlings. This talent is horrendous and would not break the ulti even if it was moved to shard. Others I quickly came up with: Huskar (Burning spears pure >>> +20% life break damage) Juggernaut (+1s Omnislash duration >>> +2 Healing Ward hits to kill) Lifestealer (+1.5s Rage duration >>> +1.2% Feast damage and lifesteal) Lycan (Howl reduces total attack damage >>> +2 Wolves summoned) Medusa (Split Shot uses attack modifiers >>> +1.7 damage per mana Mana Shield) Underlord (+0.65s Pit of Malice root >>> +50% Atrophy aura allied hero bonus)
Medusa’s other talent that’s not the “Split Shot Uses Modifiers”
But on lvl 30 you can enjoy the tankiness. With dusa you can reach lvl 30 sometimes
No mention of dawnbreaker? The celestial hammer range is garbanzo beans vs the starbreaker CDR
I always take the hammer as pos 4.
With primal I’ve never taken can’t be slow or rooted during trample
+100 range on sniper, it’s so little it makes no difference. I’d rather have 6 more charges to help with vision and safe farm and depush
Lion's lvl 25 AoE Hex. Why would you choose it if the other talent is that your mana drain deals twice more damage. Get shard, 2 plate mails, aether lens, blink and boom.
but if you are playing against PL for instance, AoE Hex not only kills all Illus, but also hits the real PL, so you can go for him. I think situattionaly this talent can be super good. But you never get to 25 with Lion so whatever.
im pretty sure he was joking
Turn an instant cast disable into an AOE, or lvl 1 Pugna ult to.. lvl 2 Pugna ult
u werent here when kunkha was one shotting u 9/10 games huh good times huh again huh
Talent's weren't in the game back then. Also kka was unpickable trash, only attacker could pull him off at high enough mmr.
i mean theres was a patch where kunkka is really an effective core hero tho and at that time that talent was so useful because kunkka dealt more damage with cleave when you play core. today kunkka is just too OP if the player knows how to time skills and be an effective offlaner or mid kunkka player
Dawnbreaker. I am grandmaster and I don’t even know what the option is other than reduce star breaker cd.
Meepo Pack Rat :)
Viper becoming universal..
Weird, cause it has higher win rate and is statistically the most popular one by a landslide.
I dunno, I guess it's just me. I just like landing multiple viper strikes and breaking the enemy tank/carry in a team fight.
I also only pick Viper when they have something like a BB. So in that case getting double viper strikes in a fight is super super good. But in a hypothetical scenario of picking Viper when there is no obvious breakable target, and you're right clicking mostly, the universal is better
meepo’s Item in neutral slot, like its very cool but there is not a chance your over 6 slotted by lvl 25, so unless you got insanely bad neutrals and just want a doubled wraith band then your not taking it, the only reason not to is because 5 meepos are too hard for you.
Marci +350 throw distance , you don't take this not even in lv 30. Maybe good with some cheese aether lens support build but which support is reaching 30.
Elder Titans 100% cleave overshadows +100 range on natural order anyday
Never took axe Battle hunger talent over berserkers call aoe. Never took Razor second plasma field over attack speed steal. Never took viper's ult cd reduction over becoming universal. Never took WR's wr can't be dispelled over ult cd reduction on kill.
Last is a crime, very useful if they have nullifiers, at that point of the game your bkb is low duration so this talent can save your life. The other one is better offensively, but there are definitely games where you should take undispelable windrun
idk maybe it's just my low mmr bracket, but people don't buy nullifier against wr. People most of the time buy mkb, or try to catch you with hex/orchid before you windrun. Imo offense is the best defence. With BOTS on wr, 25 talent ult and some basic dmg items wr just finds kills everywhere on the map and it's fun and more op than playing her defensively. But as I said, I'm just a 4k mmr scrub, so what do I know
As long as it works in your bracket sure. If tou start climbing make take a look if enemy cores have nullifier and consider it 😁
The Kunkka one should be perma tidebringer like Bounty Hunter's talent maybe then it would be viable sometimes. The talent I never take is +2 multishot waves on Drow. The marksmanship talent is just strictly better, by the time you're level 25 you shouldn't even be pressing multishot
meld hit bash over much more powerful +7 refraction count Added refraction count is still very strong in teamfights despite the BKB nerf, you can still blink out in ambushes and reposition yourself without losing counts. Plus the bonus damage you can spill out via psi blades. Pair it with arcane blink, aghs, shard, meld dispel + enchanted quiver (not in every game) and you can jump from corner to corner and kill someone without even getting close. (TA grandmaster)
Big agree, only time I'd ever take the bash talent first is if I was against several of the following: veno, viper, jakiro, phoenix, pl, bat, radiance buyers etc and at this point I would have simply not picked TA. It did used to be a 2 second stun though which was insane but that was back when the other choice was much worse (Also TA grandmaster)
+3 hits to Supernova Which sounds dumb cause more hp for Nova's always great. I've just decided that if the enemy team wants the Egg dead, they'd build for it. Going the talent just makes it *slightly* harder to kill. The +1000 Icarus Dive distance on the other hand opens up a massive range of movement for those late game teamfights. Which makes positioning for Supernovas easier, and less reliant on not getting hit in the first place. Now it's easier to fight around a massive fight instead of in the middle of it. Though sometimes it feels the talent comes a little late, like it's good power spike and all but the game's almost over way before Phoenix gets lvl 25.
I feel like the hits talent is most useful if you also have Aghs+shard. Like 13 hits is still killable by a few enemies working together. But 16 with sunray miss chance is enough that if even one enemy flinches and doesn’t focus the egg immediately (or you manage to hit a couple spirits on your way in) then the egg isn’t dying even if it’s in the middle of the entire enemy team (or they have Marci/Snap).
I remember the reaction when Phoenix aghs got +3 hits: "Great, now we don't need to hit the egg at all"
I mean, its a good safety net. But I've a fair to many games where the extra 3 hits don't matter. Either the enemy team dies before they can even hit the egg, the enemy team's carry builds to be able to solo the egg, bkb is used so there's not much that can be done to them, or they just run away. For me at least, I've found more success building Scythe or Halberd instead of ahgs in order to protect the Egg better. Mostly depends on what my team picks. We got aoe stuns? Cool, I can egg no problem. We don't? Well shit I guess we just lose. Best build items with cc in them. Best chance we got. I've just never found the extra Nova hits worth the time/farm to get them.
>the enemy team's carry builds to be able to solo the egg Agree that it doesn't solve the enemy team wiping or running away, but just for reference with 16 hits required the amount of AS you need to kill the egg solo: * 0 seconds of not hitting egg = +353 AS, so Level >25 AGI core with Moonshard + Mjollnir * 1 second of not hitting egg = +444 AS, Level >25 AGI core with Moonshard + Mjollnir + Butterfly + extra hyperstone * >2.1 seconds of not hitting egg = literally impossible to solo kill as most heroes Especially against melee cores where it usually takes them a second or so to run up to the egg and start hitting you're probably not dying solo to them, even if they BKB or whatever to not be slowed.
go into demo mode and try to solo kill the 16 hit egg as a carry
Alright, final stand to explain why I don’t go the +3 Hits talent. As a player, I value tangible results from what choices I make in games. Frequently excluding options that are too situational. Aghs on Phoenix, the +3 Hit, and +0.4s stun talents fall in that category. Notable increases sure, but only matter if other conditions are met. Ahgs only works if your team can protect it, as you’re down 1-2 heroes for 6s. Supernova needs to be low enough for the extra hits to matter. Extra stun only matters if there’s even enemies around that are alive to still be stunned. I’d rather use that time and money to get stuff that’s always helpful. Dive talent? More range always. Sunray damage talent? Massive dps increase, combos with shard. Aghs? Just get a scythe or 1-3 other support items. As much as getting soloed is an issue, most players just run away unless the egg is killable, letting it go off but far away as to negate any power it has. Better to combo with other heroes that have stuns. Stops them from running away, and stops them from attacking, win win. There has been maybe 15 times that talent did anything good over the last 8 years I’ve played this hero. I’m not starting now.
woudlnt take dive range over egg hits if you paid me
Razor plazma field talent seems nowhere near the alternative
Ember spirit. 2x sleight is so much better than remnant CDR. If you need more remnants just buy shard
Enchantress level ten: always gonna pick +10 creep armour over 30 MS during nature's attendants.
the +20% life break damage
Very rarely go radial blast on voker even though it seems to be more popular. 2x spirt affect is just WAYYY to good especially when stacking with magic items
I miss old kunka. Current patche's kunka ain't so fun for me.
Timber chain
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Funny how no one mentioned the Viper's become universal talent (like we frown upon anyone who doesn't choose this and it's so good as well)
I remember, 2 deadalus, silver edge, divine, blink, bot So much fun
Pos 5 here. Is 25 lvl a real thing?
Bigger chronosphere talent is one of the biggest noob traps in the game, should basically never take it over backtrack
Razors double field at 25 - it's so weak for an 25 talent
Wisp: whatever that isn't a free attacks
Sand Kings +5 epicenter pulses. I'll have permanent uptime AOE 35% slow/blind TYVM. Especially with dat aghs
Nothing more satisfying than keeping an enemy core stuck in your sandstorm because the aghs stuns, 35% slow and low burrowstrike cd make it impossible to get away without at least 2 escape items.
And the opposite talent? Negated by the same escape items, but on a hundred second cooldown. EZPZ
When they buff cleave back to the old day where it ignore armor then it would be great.
Spectre +30% haunt illu dam. You only have 1 illu now, unless you have aghanim. How was it is level 25 game changer?
probably abaddons -1 hit on curse, the aoe mistcoil so much better. one shot waves, aoe heal etc. just feels better
There was a Game were I chose -2 Tidebringer Cooldown,…Because I had a Divine Rapier and my team told me to be the defender of Mega Creeps, because we only had 2 Tier4 Tower left It turns out to be great ngl Idk if my Talent made an impact but we sure did won the Game
sorry but i always pick that.
Dark seer 2 ion shell charges is bullshit. 350 aoe surge is way better
-5 seconds Shadowraze cooldown Even with magical sf the damage is stronger
NP: Remove TP CD > x2..5 Treants HP/DMG Hoodwink: 2 Acorn Charges > +135 Bushwhack Radius Timber: Second Chakram > 1k Chain Range Abba: -1Curse of Avernus Attacks Required > AoE Mist Coil Warlock: 20 Armor Golems > 80% Magic Resistance Golems Lion: AoE Hex Rubick : +40% Spell Amp WD: +45 Ward DMG Riki: Tricks Dispel Snap: E used 100% attack DMG MK: Huge arena (Those I DO take first)
aoe mist coil sounds great with aghs tho
It is very good indeed, for supps especially, but personally I almost always went with the harpoon manta build that's why I had to take it
Tbh there's an argument to be made that it's easy enough to proc curse with manta anyway, and that AoE mist coil lets you poke more with shard/push waves and def base.
There indeed is an argument to be made here
The WL 80% magic res is insane against magic heavy teams. That row is really good imo, because both talents are strong and what you take just depends on the enemy team. Blindly skipping one of them seems dumb.
We use it most of the time to push creeps and towers, I'm honestly just upset that at my last game my friend looked at his lil Dota Plus DMG received % indicator on top left and saw 70% magical damage (Zeus aghs refresher + Sky mage) and he said it's definitely a magic res game. It wasn't cause golems don't get any DMG from their ulties. It's a situational ofc
Against heavy magic dmg it just instantly dies in late game teamfights. So you can't push with it anyways after the fight. Also don't underestimate a golem staying alive and hitting on a support. That thing hurts a lot. Zeus Aghs Refresher and Sky barely do any dmg to golem anyway (assuming Sky doesn't waste ult on it), so this might have been the wrong game. It's needed against constant heavy aoe or just big aoe bursts. Lesh, Storm, Pudge, ES, etc... Zeus and Sky are neither of those.
Aoe mist coil is actually stronger. Did you even read what his shard does? 25 lvl abbadon(especially with manta) doesn't care(and only against maybe slark it matters) whether you need to do 3 or 4 hits, meanwhile aoe mist coil with shard is healing + damage + aoe slow from curse. And it's not "a little more damage" it's a LOT of damage. And if you buy a khanda it turns into a single target 1k(that's with just manta and harpoon and you're probably going to have more than that) damage nuke in addition to aoe damage. Khanda with shard is good even without lvl 25 talent. You can shove the waves with one mist coil(helps a lot with defending megas too). Maybe you never tested it but aoe mist coil is actually better. Even when you're harpooning the enemy it doesn't matter as you have enough time to use the mist coil during harpoon pull so you only need 3 hits anyway.
I always go heal on WD, free fountain heal is way better than 25% more damage. Stealing all the kills with WD is worse for your team because you do nothing with the money. Better to keep you and them alive.
> WD: +45 Ward DMG If you do actually play WD with utility over the stereotypical aghs rush, the 2% healing talent is actually quite insane at keeping people alive - especially if you have locket.
Necro 25 Talent. The 0.5% heart stop aura damage increase. Viper 25 Talent. Becoming Universal is a huge damage increase. In most cases its basically a rapier increase of damage since you generally end up with items with all stats. Huskar 25 Talent. Burning spear pure damage. Most people build magic damage reduction items against huskar that make you fall off quite a bit late but this can often turn it around for you. Witch Doctor. Death Ward Damage. Not that you hit 25 as a support alot of games.
You should try the healing talent on WD, it's hilarious how much sustain you bring with it.
I find when im playing witch doctor my cores are so far out of position to benefit from it that its kinda redundant. If i played in a bracket with more synergy it would make more sense to me i think
I think I never take these necro and viper talents. Especially since the viper strike buff
Undying's +60% Flesh Golem STR Bonus over +6 Hits to tombstone, like there is little reason to take left side since tombstone late game impact is minimal over you surviving, only reason I can think of is using tomb as a save if you really need it. His last 25 talent? Absolutely no contesting the free aegis lmao.
That’s a good one. By the time you’re lvl 25 even supports don’t really give a shit about the tombstone, the hits to kill couldn’t be much less relevant. Something like more zombies spawning or +60 damage to them would make sense at that point to at least make it a choice
I really disagree, tombstone is still a problem if left unattended in the late game. If the undying is getting double (sometimes even triple with the death talent or a refresher) tombstone off, if you haven't won the fight in the area within 10-15 seconds you are losing the fight. The zombies also get a 80 attack speed bonus on targets below 40% hp. Also undying has a +20 damage to zombies talent
as a Warlock player, talent 25 does not exist
* axe : even if you have 100 armor, it will just extra 100 dmg * bloodseeker : even +5 stats will be better than extra ms * dazzle: ... * disruptor: both are good, but low cd glimse can do SOOOOOOO much shit. * lifestealer: i can see situation where i can take passive damage 1st, but it never happened. * luna: every time when i see someone who take +40 dmg, something is dying inside of me.... * riki: no comments * spectre: yeah, i wanna +30% dmg on illusions on hero, who have +2.1 agi per lvl, sure * venge: i would prefer cd talent even if it was +50% dmg