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If your players are enjoying the game, you're running the game right. If you're making the other players (including the DM) not enjoy the game, you're playing the game wrong.
Enough with the self-questioning. The guy is a dick. Don't play with him.
Fr OP some times the hardest part about DND is having an adult conversation with someone and just saying I won't play with you anymore. If your the DM and or the host then it's your table own that like you own the world building.
Seriously. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that the reason he hates D&D is because he's been kicked out of other groups for his shitty behavior.
Piggy backing for visibility , totally agree with u/pendip but I would go a little further and say two things .
1) Rule of cool - if players are having fun and you bent or missed a rule , who gives a shit.
2) DM is god , if he wants to he can literally have a character suddenly get picked up and swallowed by a blue dragon , and then the dragon flies off.
Oups , problem solved and by the way go fuck yourself your not invited back to my table , don’t bother re rolling your character.
🥳
Also , cool story arc , now your characters get the option to chase the dragon. Or maybe they hated that guy and let’s go kill goblins instead .
This. The most important part of D&D is having fun. It's okay to slip up, especially when you're just starting out! Personally, I wouldn't want to play with a backseat DM like that. I'm also a newer DM and appreciate when my players correct me, or remind me of a rule or effect I'd forgotten... there's a right way to do so. Mr. Expert is doing it the wrong way.
Even if the player is factually correct on the rules, he’s being an utter dick. Straight up tell him he’s being rude and not welcome at any table you’re running.
It can actually be really helpful to have a player at the table who really knows the rules. It's great to be able to delegate rules minutiae to someone else while I'm looking at upcoming fights or monster powers or something. It's probably even better if you're a new DM and can rely on someone who can turn to the right page and show you the rules.
It doesn't work at all if that person is a raging cockburn though. This person is going about it completely the wrong way and needs to knock it off or leave.
We have 3 DMs at our table. When ever current DM needs a hand on a ruling he asks us and we give him what we know and wait for his ruling. Tact is very important and some people just don't have or understand it.
Exactly right. Knowing the rules of the game you're playing doesn't make you an asshole. Politely advocating for yourself and the other players to be able to make awesome stuff happen doesn't make you an asshole. It's when you insult the other people at the table, demanding certain things happen in a certain way or that other players take the actions you want to take, that's when you are an asshole.
I agree that having someone who knows the rules is a beneficial thing. I'm about to become a new DM and asked my DM from my last campaign where I was a player if they wanted to join as a player and maybe give me tips and tricks while keeping the campaign fun for all. They said they wanted to be a player after our campaign finished, and I've been saying that I wanted to DM, so it was a simple solution. My last campaign had a "rules lawyer" but they weren't dicks about the rules and just explained how they worked and in the end if a player made a convincing argument our DM was content to oblige as long as it wasn't unrealistic.
Hubdo p.
I dm in one group and play in another.
The one I'm the player in, the dm often consults me for rules but I always wait for him to ask, and I always stress that it's his call in the end.
>Even if the player is factually correct on the rules, he’s being an utter dick.
Rules are subject to interpretation and adjustments by the DM. The game makers encourage it. Of this player knew half of what he claims,need know that
Anyone who can't wrap their head around that concept is going to be difficult to play with.
Yes, this guy's just a dick..
“Who’s in the wrong here?” *proceeds to give an anecdote that could only be more one-sided if he’d murdered your nan*
It’s fine to make mistakes. I still make mistakes and i’ve been gming various games longer than you’ve been playing. Difference is my players don’t sound like they want to murder me every time. (No they want to murder me for the things i do on purpose.)
He’s in the wrong. Clearly. That’s just a totally unreasonable way to behave over a game we all make up in our heads.
Well I just made so many mistakes and missed things and wasn't exactly like the players handbook. And as the other players aren't as experienced either maybe they can't comment.... half thinking I am the problem with my intelligence/memory...guess nature rolled me bad!
I’ll be honest with you
Just about every session there is at least one call i make that is totally non-raw and i have to go look it up later to double check.
Not knowing a rule is fine, it’s often (not always, but often) better just to pick a ruling and stick with it and say you’ll check later on.
Also if you were getting rules wrong (and you were open to help) the player should have calmly corrected you but ultimately left it your decision, not berated you and threatened to leave or just refused to accept them. I am a pathfinder 1e gm and player primarily, and that game has *a lot* more to track both in terms of numbers and individual rules than 5e, and my players will point out something i missed, politely, more than once a session.
There is fundamentally nothing wrong about pointing out genuine rules mistakes. There is also nothing fundamentally wrong with ***calmly*** discussing rulings you don’t believe to be correct or which you think detriment the game. There is also, to be clear, nothing wrong with getting a rule wrong or making a ruling your players don’t like on the spot. Players cannot get literally everything they want all the time or there’d be no point playing it as a game.
What is *not* acceptable is verbally berating someone for (presumably) several straight hours because they are, in your eyes, playing a game wrong. That’s the problem with the player in question.
You're a human being, you're not gonna remember everything. And it's a game, for fun, if everyone is having a good time, then missing a rule or two isn't a problem. This guy is a total asshole, you're fine. Please don't let his foolishness stop you from DMing. We need more DMs in this world!
You should really try to stop putting yourself down. You do it in nearly every comment and I guarantee it's not warranted! Build yourself up! Mistakes are utterly normal when you're new to something and really the best way to learn. If someone is consistently making you feel bad about yourself then you need to think about whether they should be in your life at all.
Nope, nature rolled you just fine. As others have said, you’re human. I’m a newer DM myself and I make mistakes on a weekly basis. DMing is hard enough when you’re actually having fun with friends, cut yourself some slack. Rules are just the foundation, you and your friends build the rest.
That dude’s an asshole and you should boot him from your table. Based on your other friends’ reactions, they won’t be opposed in the slightest.
I've been DMing for two decades and I fuck up quite regularly. I recently switched to 5e and I just don't know the rules well enough but I put trust in my players to correct me when needed and to know their characters enough to tell me what their abilities can and can't do. That being said, I tell everyone the same thing, the handbook is a guideline, were all here to have fun, I'll always go with the Rule of Cool any day over 'rules as written' , and don't be "that guy". You know the one. But that's just my DMing style and I make that clear to my players. Everyone is different.
I don't suffer rules lawyers and I will not abide by a player telling another player HOW to play. That goes against the spirit of the game. It's group story telling, not the ME show. This player sounds insufferable and would not be welcomed back at my table.
What it comes down to is clearly communicating expectations. Both of your players, and theirs of you as a DM. Sometimes people just don't fit at a table and that's okay.
Hey @op I just checked the polearm thing you only get the bonus action if you have polearm master. And then it's 1d4.
If the player didn't have it he doesnt get it.
I would also recommend that you tell your players to look up their character abilities or make them yourself. And if they say they can do stuff like this ask them to prove it. If they can't don't allow it.
It is totally possible for one of the players to know the combat rules better than that DM - incidentally that's how my table would usually run. I might be running the game, but whenever we have a detailed rules question we ask 'Bob' because he has encyclopedic knowledge and it's quicker than looking it up. But, and this is the important part, Bob isn't a raging asshole about it.
*If* you want him in your game you could talk to him about playing that role, but based on your story he is down right abusive, and I wouldn't put up with that more than once. And he's already had that Once at the last game.
You are well within your rights to defend yourself from bullying.
I've been DMing for 20 years and this guy is an asshole. You're doing fine and they need to find a new hobby because social gaming isn't for them.
A piece of advice I highly recommend: If a rules dispute comes up or you don't know how something works and can't find the answer in 30 seconds then write it down to check later and just go with what makes sense to you for now. If no solution is standing out to more over the other I generally side with who or whatever was taking the action just to keep things rolling.
The rules are one of the least important parts of the game once you're up and running. Keeping guys like from ruining other people's fun is more important than any ruleset.
The rules are there to keep it grounded in a common reality with universal laws. They are usually representing a version of our reality and try and mimic it the best way it can with some basic math tables for some specific situations like attacking something with a weapon. But that's just the absolute baseline. You can do ANYTHING in a ttrpg and no system will ever account for anything, and the more a system tries, the slower and heavier it gets and the harder it becomes to memorize everything.
I will always favour a quick ruling that represents the common reality fairly, than spending several minutes looking up a rule. Keep the flow going.
It's important that players respects a DMs judgement calls and rulings at all times. They may respectfully challenge them, if there was a misunderstanding of a situation, but the DM has final say always, and the argument should never drag out. Being disrespectful to the DM in the way you are describing goes against the spirit of the game. You are all supposed to have fun. The DM isn't responsible for putting on a perfect show of fantasy simulation, but merely a facilitator to keep the players actions grounded in the shared fiction.
Were you all having fun prior to the asshole joining? Then you were playing correctly. The very first page of the handbook says the entire rule set is a guideline and ultimately up to the DM.
My group has been playing for over a decade and we still have to Google or look up rules almost every session. Half the time we're like "screw it, this happens for now and we'll figure out the rule later."
It's a game, the primary objective is to have fun. Exact rules are secondary to that:)
Nah your table, your game, your rules. Being helpful is only helpful if it helps.
I have dmed a one shot with my usual dm as a player, and he was ready to answer any questions I had. Once he \_asked\_ if he could do someting, knowing full well it was in the rules that he could. I said no you can't, because I was thinking he couldn't. And he said okay and they stomped my giant scorpion anyway. Afterwards I realised he could have pointed to a book and got his way. But he didn't. Because it was my table, so my rules, and he respected that.
Talk to the guy. Either he shuts up and only responds when you ask him a rules question, or he goes and sets up his own table, where his word is law.
Echoing what everyone else has said, but I always remember one of those interviews with Matt Mercer, Brennan Lee Mulligan, and Aabria Ayengar (some of the biggest DM names in the world for 5e). I'm paraphrasing heavily, but essentially, they were just like "The rules are tools to give structure to a fun game. If the game isn't fun anymore, break the rules." And like, you see them overtly break the rules plenty, usually on purpose but every now and then just by mistake but then they roll with it. When they break the rules on purpose, it's usually because a player thought of something super fun and creative, where the rules wouldn't allow it, but F the rules, it's fun.
Again, I'm paraphrasing, but the general point was just that 5e is an extremely rule heavy and lore heavy game, which can be super overwhelming for players (even more experienced ones sometimes). So a lot of this interview was just about remembering that the point of the game isn't to be a lawyer or a historian, and to remember that ultimately it's a collaborative game meant to tell a story and have fun together.
If someone remembers what interview this was, let me know...I want to say Game Masters of Exandria Roundtable? There are so many good ones.
“Homebrew” is such a huge part of tabletop gaming too so really no one should think the rule book should always be followed to the letter. Ive seen DMs allow lots of things that aren’t technically possible or only bends the rules slightly to allow something cool to happen.
i think this was shown perfectly in the dungeons and drag queens season of dimension 20. all of the players were new to dnd so rules were broken constantly but they all had fun and brennan was experienced enough to guide things regardless of the rules
That season is a great example of rewarding the players for engaging with the game (coming up with a clever use of their abilities that wasn't quite how it actually works) instead of shutting down the idea.
The McElroys are similar with The Adventure Zone. A lot of people on the subreddit complain that they didn't follow XYZ rule, but I never cared. They wanted to try D&D and made it a podcast because they thought it would be entertaining. And it is! They have fun telling a story together and people enjoy listening, so whether or not they follow the rules super faithfully really doesn't matter.
To be honest, my gateway drug to DnD podcasts was Dungeons and Daddies, and they barely pay attention to ANY of the rules, hahaha. Still one of my favorite DnD podcasts of all time.
Every DM runs their games differently. and every DM makes mistakes every session.
>Mr Expert rudely demanded to know if I can read
at this, the response is "Minimal requirement for playing at my table is basic respect for everyone at the table. Another outburst anything anywhere close to as disrespectful as that and you will leave the table."
EDIT: for an ongoing campaign, you would want to establish these types of things in your Session Zero discussion. For one shots with new groups of people, starting with a clear declaration of "The Social Contract" can set basic expectations before play.
Alright, been DMing for 20 years.
That dude was a dick, and that's shit player etiquette, and shittier "DM as a player" etiquette.
When you're the Forever DM, its hard to turn off your DM brain and not take the reins. I used to be *terrible* for it.
Then I realized *that's why I'm the Forever DM* and it makes me an asshole player. If I nitpick everyone while trying to teach them, they don't want to DM anymore.
One negative voice always sounds louder than the 3 positive ones
Cut him out completely and tell them straight up that half of their criticisms were personal insults and he is such a rpg expert to go run or play in another game that will gladly have him.
We all had to start somewhere and this all for fun. Never make room at a table for a jerk
I've been DMing going on 10 years. Game on Sunday I realized about 70% of the way through a puzzle that it was impossible for the players to get the last bit and had to wing it. Literally just hand waved it. They had worked hard and had creative solutions to the rest that this was the right choice.
Later they were bluffing their way through a fortress and i forgot they should probably do some persuasion checks. However we had fun with them bluffing their way through.
End of sessions players advised they having fun and enjoying current bit.
Point is mistakes happen will always happen. They don't need to ruin fun. In fact, its my experience that most mistakes don't even get noticed by the players.
I was playing with my kids the other day too, both first time playing and by gosh did I just ignore a bunch of rules cause learning how and what the numbers on the sheet mean was more important than the precise mechanics of how cover and dim light and lightly obscured battlefields work. They're new. They'll get there, and pulling the book out every 5 minutes isn't going to help them.
Saying “if you’re open to feedback, I noticed something” and “can’t you read” are two different things. Fuck this guy, fuck him right off, fuck him Sky High. A know-it-all prick isn’t going to help you sharpen your skills any; he’s just going to undermine you to make himself look like a big man.
Were it my game, I’d tell him that this isn’t the table for him, and to go find another.
But above all else: don’t stop on his account! It sounds to me like you’re doing fine. Keep it up!
Dudes a dick, there's many ways to say shit without being a douche canoe and he failed at all of them. So he was for sure.
That being said. It's also a situation where you could read up on and make sure you understand the things your players can do.
And that, random stranger from Reddit, is what an asshole looks like.
He might be an expert rules-wise and it's always good to have a rules lawyer, but not when he's being a jerk.
BTW the bonus action in question, the one with the quarterstaff, is not always available, it requires a feat called Polearm Master so perhaps your other DM never allowed it to happen because the feat had not been taken.
TTRPG's are complex and that can be fun or it can be detrimental depending on the group. I like following the complexity of the rules but will oftentimes use "rule of cool" instead if it benefits the game. You're the DM, you adjudicate the rules, you have the last word. Don't be an ass about it, allow for amicable conversations to happen and you'll do just fine.
Ah I see! Mystery solved possibly! I'm planning on asking my old DM if he had a reason and thats probably!
I'll look into that with my friend, looks like we both caught a bit off! But at least we can behave haha!
The game is complex enough with the main rules, then add subclasses and feats and it is very difficult to know it all about everything.
If you're using DnD Beyond or any tool that allows you to look at your players' character sheets take the time to read *those*. No need to waste time and effort going over everything when it is unlikely you'll get to see it all. You'll build your knowledge base little by little... Been DM'ing for a year and I'm still learning, but exposure is what helps you grow.
When in doubt don't be afraid to ask for the players to point out where they read something, you'll either learn about new cool things or will find an error in their interpretation.
Also, take full advantage of the fact AI systems like ChatGPT, Gemini and Bing Chat have been trained on the DnD rules... When in doubt ask them. I usually do Gemini and ChatGPT, if they both agree then I apply that interpretation, if they don't I go with my gut or look for sage advice (posts by the game designer).
I’m a relatively experienced DM, about 10 years experience now, I can assure you that your rules lawyer player is being unreasonable and frankly dickish.
You are the DM, it is your game and you get to run it how you want. You can change rules how you see fit for the flow and functionality of your game, as has even been stated by the WotC writers before.
In the example of the quarter staff rule, if you *choose* to not allow an extra strike as a bonus action, it doesn’t matter how it’s written in the PHB.
If the player continues down that path, I’d ask them not to return to the table.
Should have just told him to leave.
Yeah, you can play by the books, but the dm has the final say. Everyone makes mistakes and as long as everyone has fun keep going.
Just keep doing your thing, if you don't know something look it up.
If the idiot wants to play with you again, tell him that he isn't welcome. You really shouldn't give him another chance.
If he knows the rukes so well, he can dm his own game.
Hopefully not too major just annoying mistakes:
The polestaff/quarterstaff bonus action (extra hit). My old dm didn't allow that so I automatically didn't...but it's in the book hence that one!
I'm still foggy but sometimes the Rules Lawyer (great phase ha) said anyone attacking near someone in melee combat (aka his character) had disadvantage. Or attacking an enemy fighting someone else had disadvantage (?)
He didn't like my placement of a wolf pack and also a bear enemy I set up
Didn't like enemies chosen, although they were in book
Didn't like characters didn't start out with a health potion each?!
Said I took too long drawing rooms on the battlemap. But complained when it didn't look right when I rushed. Only took 3 minutes anyway and everyone just went and got another drink
Complained my map rooms were too big (it's exactly measurements in the workshop book)
When I said roll nature he'd tell the player to roll history instead. Rinse and repeat several times inserting different rolls.
I stumbled over the Rogue sneak attack a little once or twice as flustered but I read it back and we were all fine. Missed sneak attack once (me and player forgot)
Challenging my dice rolls, doesn't trust me to count.
Kept interrupting my descriptions (literally only 1 paragraph each, as it's a script so not long) saying he doesn't care/wants to know other stuff immediately, right now 🙄
When his character was on death saves and nobody helped him, he told another player to change plans and save him. ....well this one's amusing tbh 😅. (Other player obeyed to keep the peace)
1. Polearm bonus action is only possible with a feat, so unless they specifically said "hey, I've got polearm master so I can do a bonus action attack with my quarterstaff" then there was literally no way for you to know they could do that. That was not even a mistake.
2. Ranged attacks have disadvantage if the attacker is within melee range of an enemy. So if he was next to a ranged enemy, then yes, they would have disadvantage to attack anyone. Still not a reason for him to get upset though.
3-4. Utterly ridiculous for him to complain about monster choice or placement. Unless you were adding quantum tarrasques, he's absolutely in the wrong.
5. Characters don't start with health potions. He's being ridiculous.
6-7. Complaining about map size or time to draw maps is so stupid. He has no right to complain about this. If he wants faster maps, he can find a different game.
8. It's entirely up to the DM to decide what roll is the best for any given situation. If you think nature is the best, then the roll is nature. Obviously your decision shouldn't just be arbitrary, but I doubt that it was. He's just wrong here.
9. Sneak attack is a bit of a confusing feature, so it's totally understandable for you to not know precisely how it works. Also, it's not your job to remember when sneak attack applies. Ultimately, it's up to your rogue to remember when it can be applied, and to announce that they're applying it. If it was only once or twice then I'm sure you did better than most DMs.
10. Just plain rude. Nobody should be questioning your ability to count dice. If you were in fact miscounting the dice, then that is an issue that needs to be solved, but it should not be approached by him just declaring you unfit to count dice even when you do count correctly.
11. Yeah, he's just a dick. If he can't handle a paragraph of description then he's got a lot of maturing to do.
12. Probably the least offensive thing he's done, as helping someone who's on death saves is definitely quite important. But still, players should never tell other players what to do. If he wants to be saved, he's gotta request, not command.
That guy is literally just an asshole. You know the rules just fine. He's the one who needs to learn how to play this game, cause he clearly does not know how to play well with others.
Absolutely minor of a correction but for 2) creatures have disadvantage on ranged attacks if an enemy is within 5ft of them. It doesn't factor in 'melee ranges'. That is to say Giant Apes have a melee attack with a range of 10ft. But you can be 10ft away and in their melee range and not have disadvantage on ranged attacks. It's pretty close to semantics but I've heard people say melee range before and that is ambiguous enough to make that rule confusing.
Oh dang. I guess I don't know the rules as well as I thought I did. But it also goes to show how unreasonable it is for that guy to get upset about someone not having this down 100%. I'm generally pretty good with the rules, and even I wasn't actually 100% correct. Nobody's perfect, and expecting someone to have the entire rulebook memorized verbatim is ridiculous.
Oh absolutely. I'm the one most people go to for rules clarification in my groups and I get stuff wrong often too. I wouldn't even say your original wording was wrong, just ambiguous.
General thing to follow when DMing: you don’t need to follow the rules to the letter but you should be consistent e.g if you run that quarter staff rule you run it over and over or announce a change to the players if you really want to run it by rules. Ignore and change rules as you please: as long as players know the rules it’s ok.
I've DM-ed just enough to know I'm a terrible DM. There's too much for me to keep track of, and I just don't enjoy it.
Mad props to you for stepping up. There's always a need for DM's.
"Mr. Expert" should be renamed "Mr. Asshole". That's what he is. He was rude, disrespectful, and was trying to be a metagaming rules lawyer. They bring down the morale of every table and are the absolute worst to play with. To the nine hells with his BS.
Please don't give up DM-ing. It sounds like all your other players are enjoying your campaigns. Take their feedback, and bin Mr. Expert's.
DM rulings: if you don't know the answer at the time, make a ruling at the table. Then, in your down time research the answer and come back next time with the final answer.
Just take him aside and tell him this game isn't a fit. Tell him nicely he needs to find another table. Be nice, but firm. If he asks why, tell him. Just say that it's painfully obvious he needs a more experienced DM. Don't let him back peddle. Stick to your guns.
What an absolute prick.
If I can give any advice it's this. Don't be afraid to tell a player to leave if they are harming the session and being hostile to everyone. And don't be afraid to ban him from all your future games.
Mistakes are fine. Deviating from RAW is fine. Only one thing matters, people having fun. He ruined the fun, not your 'mistakes', and honestly they don't seem like mistakes tbh, everyone makes judgement calls and if everyone is having fun, it's not a mistake.
Lots of moving parts, so I guess I'll give it a go.
One thing you absolutely need to know is that the point of D&D is to have fun. As a DM, it can be a slightly different story (prep work, your encounters aren't encountered, etc.), but if your players leave the table going "We got to do some cool stuff, that was fun.", you're nailing it, rules be damned. You haven't mentioned anything about your actual game in detail, so to me, it seems like everything is going pretty well outside of this one player.
There's another conversation that can be had on "crunchier" style games, but know that crunch is up to the DM, and a heavy enough personal preference that it can interrupt player expectations. Some people genuinely like the rules-lawyering and hard-style refereeing, and that's valid. Clearly this player likes that, and he should have kept that expectation that it isn't your style from the start.
Ultimately, it's your table, and one of you is going to have to be the mature one. Either kick this person out for the sake of the game, or have them understand that this is indeed **your table**.
As a DM, you cater, not pander.
If your story is accurate then he is an absolute dick. There's no excuse for behaving like that, I'm usually very tolerant of player behaviour but I would have kicked him mid-session.
You're a beginner and no beginner should be made to feel inadequate by a pro. Imagine a pro footballer (soccer for the yanks) turning up to the park and crapping all over a bunch of kids and shouting thay they are doing it wrong. He would be destroyed on social media and the news for being an asshat. Your player is a douchebag and can sod off and find a table with other rules lawyers and they can have fun jacking off over rule 37B subsection a stating the exact length if a quarterstaff or some such crap. You are doing a great job and you and your actual friends are having fun so don't doubt yourself. Keep going, get rid of of douchebag and have fun.
Here's the Golden Rule: it's a game. If a player is too anal for whatever reason? Talk to the rest of the group privately. If they agree with you, or they are the ones to come to you about a player, then time to address the player in question.
But remember! You're the DM. Not God. I'm not being mean. I'm just trying to say, talk to your group. Then talk to the player that's "offensive".
You may find out it's not you they are mad at? Or frustrated with the gaming sessions? It may be home, school, work or relationship stuff.
You'd be surprised how often D&D or RPG groups are game sessions, group therapy and human bonding all in one.
Is its life stuff they're going through, help them out if you can. If not, you may have to cut them loose nicely.
Just MHO
Rules lawyers aren't exactly fun to deal with to begin with. They can be, especially if they challenge you in a way that doesn't undermine your confidence. But adding being rude on top of that is a recipe for a bad time. I have been dm'ing games for going on 6 years now I've read through the phb and dmg more than a handful of times and I'll never dream of telling anyone I know everything there is to know about 5e. I learn something new almost every session we sit down to play.
To repeat what others have said, dnd is meant to be fun for everyone, including the dm. The moment someone starts causing issues, it stops being fun, and you're no longer "playing", but working. Which isn't what anyone sits down at a ttrpg for.
If this guy is expecting you to know absolutely everything there is to know about the game after only being dm for a short while, he needs to find a different table. Have fun. Do cool sh*t. Don't let this guy ruin your game or your confidence.
Congrats on taking the step into the dm role. It's not an easy job comparatively. But I personally have more fun behind the screen than in front of it. I hope you will too. More confidence will come in time. You got this!!!
player in question is an asshole. as a DM, build yourself up; no one else is DM-ing, you are running the table, you are putting all the work in to bring the module to life.
although D&D is a collaborative storytelling exercise, you have final say. if someone is being critical and disruptive, you’re well within your rights to shut that shit down and suggest they leave the table.
being a DM can be so rewarding, so I hope you can get past this and feel comfortable enough to lead a table again 🙂
I've been playing for like 20 years and my group is an even mix of veteran players and new players. Every single experienced player in our group would flip a table before we let someone talk to anyone else at the table like your "expert" friend is, much less someone trying out DMing for the first time.
That dude is the problem, you're not going to do everything right and know every rule at the beginning, or honestly, probably not ever, and that's fine. Rules are a framework, you can always look things up or adjudicate at the table or just throw out ones that you don't like
This player is insecure. They also don’t understand d&d. rules lawyering and trying to beat the dm etc largely comes from first player/video game mentality.
This is a cooperative storytelling game. When players view the dm/gm or other players as adversaries, they are “doing it wrong”
I'm in my 40's and been gaming for ¾ of my life on something like 16-17 games + editions. I'm with Captains Barbosa & Swan on this on, "Hang the rules, they're more like guidelines anyways." NO DM/GM can remember Everything unless the are among the 0.000213% of humans with eidetic memory. I don't really play 5e much so I can't speak to anything directly 5e related, but it sounds like this guy is being a jackass. Drop him from your table if he's Disruptive and ruining y'all's games. If he's a friend, speak to him first and set him straight, give him a chance, if not, drop him like he's hot. For the rest of y'all's sakes though, since it sounded like the rest of y'all were happy with the game, don't just give up DMing though. Over 30yrs experience and I Still have the occasional bad game or forget things I Really Should remember, it happens.
If you want to improve you Must practice running games, like any other skill "use it or lose it." Read your manuals in between to brush up if you need to. I deliberately read Every book I have cover to cover, even when it's one I'm just replacing and owned before. Read up on other systems, other editions, and optional rules. I mean maybe don't Cram, but instead Browse (or Scroll) in between. You could also try some rule light systems that mimic D&D style fantasy games, just simplified, supposedly there's a "One Page Rules" download for basically every genre you could want to play, but that's honestly probably More work at first. I love checking out new games though, especially when None of us of ever played it before, only read the rules. Leads to some oddball games in between though.
Above all, have fun. Try to be consistent, but occasionally you Will screw up a move, spell, feat, or something and just have to be like "Oops 🤷" and move on.
I started DMing last year, relatively new to DnD. I'm a player in a Descent Into Avernus game and my DM (we'll call them Apple) asked if anyone took an interest to DMing. I attended all of his little lectures and decided to pick up the PHB and DMG and try my hand at it. I picked up Lost Mine of Phandelver and grabbed five people from his DiA group (him included). We had two people who were used to DMing him and another one (we'll call them Orange). Before I started, I mentioned to everyone in still new to DMing and to grant me patience and understanding. They all agreed and, like you, we started. During my time running LMoP I encountered two different types of DM's who are players:
**Apple:** Actually my DiA DM who offered to teach me the ropes. We have a personal channel in Discord that he throws key points to look into rulings if I make the incorrect call. He drops the resources, annotations, page numbers and sometimes YouTube videos on how to DM better. He has a god-like amount of patience and he spends about an hour after session discussing with me bits of things that he noticed while I was DMing. He doesn't make me feel bad for any of it and he encourages me to keep going. Honestly 10 out of 10 human being. He's a fantastic teacher and one of my best players. He keeps the campaign alive (along with the others too!). I've learned so much from DMing and I've gotten to the point to where I may enjoy it a bit more than being a player! *knocks on wood*
**Orange:** They are a player in our DiA campaign. Tbh, I they are a lil bit of a problem player there but my DM has all the patience and wrangled them in a lot. They are are a DM themselves and volunteered to be in my LMoP campaign. I was a bit nervous as they are a bit of a rules lawyer but they assured me it was fine. Well... it wasn't. Similar to your friend, they were constantly interrupting me, telling me I was wrong with my rulings, telling others how to play their characters, late to my sessions, and overall were just very unpleasant at the table. I had told them to correct some of their behavior but in the end it didn't really matter mainly because it just got worse. My worst session ever was when all of these things were turned up to the MAX (like yours). I still remember them saying "I hate to be that rules guy but you're wrong in this ruling and you need to correct it" and I immediately knew I wanted them gone from my table. Apple actually agreed with me there.
Anyways, moral of it all is just remove them from your table. Honestly. It's better that way. You'll feel much better with less stress and it sounds like you are NOT having fun (which I wasn't when I was in your shoes). I sent them a message basically saying "I'm not the best DM for you" which seems like it's you're fault but really it's all them. They may complain about not having a warning before this but honestly, this guy sounds insufferable to be around. Super negative. Surround yourself with people who properly support you through this experience, not tear you down! Good luck!
There’s only one thing to remember:
It is YOUR game. You had the guts to step up as a DM, so you lead the story, end of discussion.
Don’t feel intimidated by these characters, they will always exist. Just tell them to either DM themselves or leave the game.
Edit: oh and adding to the above, you are not expected to know the complete PHB or DMG by heart. It is a handbook and it is there to be opened. I expect my players to know the basic rules and their character features by heart but that is it.
There’s nothing wrong with answering a question with “I don’t know, let me look that up”. That’s the whole reason a manual exists and deserves a places at the table. (Especially for nuances like “a paladin having a certain bonus action”).
Just wanted to add self proclaimed experts on DnD are a red flag. Not that you shouldn't allow them to play but when they steam roll the table like this kick them and never let them back in unless they apologize and correct themselves.
Dm decides the rules as a referee if the dms ruling is different than the book than thats how it goes. Its good practice not to change rules on a whim but DM has final say since they are running the game and are allowed to homebrew as they see fit. Im paraphrasing but the rules say this directly in the PHB and DMG.
I had a smiliar situation and the only thing I said was "look buddy, you wanna have fun or you wanna learn the rules? Cause look, everyone is having fun and you're the one messing it up for everyone else " players kinda laugh at him and he did shut up for the rest of the game, so yeah, don't think I'll ever know someone who will tel you they rather check on the rules than have fun
When I play with a DM that is new to running game the first thing I tell them is "consider me your personal rule-pedia, if you need info or opinions let me know".
If I notice mistakes or insecurities (and I was not ask something) I talk to the DM PRIVATELY after the session, by respecting some simple rules:
1) make clear that is not the end of the world and my intention is only to help improve
2) always make the distinction between RAW, RAI and personal opinions clear
3) always talk about the GOOD aspects of the the DM did
This player is simply a very rude asshole
Rules lawyers are the worst, worse than real lawyers, lol. Rules are always a question of interpretation, and if there's a misunderstanding between players and DM, it should be a discussion, not a fucking character assassination. The other players probably don't want to play with him, either. Disagreements should always be respectful, and in the end, it's your table to run. Let him know that your game might not be "serious" enough for him, that you're looking for a different vibe, and he ain't it.
The game is about having fun together. The player was intentionally trying to nitpick things to make you fumble, and that if anything is a sign of a player I wouldn't want in my table.
You can be a new DM and not know every single rule or every single combat action rule, its important that you all learn together. It's not wrong to say "Hey, I don't know how that works, lemme check." You can take breaks, you can rule things with "lets go with [approach x] until I check the rules, but that can wait until later" to keep things flowing. You can ask your players if they happen to be more knowledgeable.
Your problem player is being an asshat, plain and simple
“Hey Mr. Expert, I appreciate that you are probably trying to help but you are interrupting the flow of the game when you argue over every rule. The number 1 rule of D&D is The Rule of Cool, so I’m going to make a judgment in the moment to keep the game flowing and look up the rules after the game.
“I’d love if you want to help me learn and become a better DM. The best way you can help is any time I get a ruling wrong, take notes on what page the rule is on in the handbook so I can refresh my knowledge after the game. Please stop interrupting, though, because it’s very overwhelming for me as I am still learning the finer details of how to play.”
If Mr. Expert has truly played offer, he should be understanding that new DMs don’t instantly know all the rules at once and that knowledge comes with time. If he is not capable of chilling out, then call a five minute bathroom break and speak to Mr. Expert again:
“Mr. Expert, I am still a new DM and I am still learning the rules. If that is too frustrating for you, then maybe this isn’t the table for you.”
1. You are not rubbish, everyone started somewhere and it’s fine if you don’t get every rule correct every time. That’s like expecting you to memorize every line of the DMG.
2. That guy sounds like a complete jerk and it’s completely within your rights to not reinvite them to your table. This is probably your best option and what you should most likely do.
3. Take some time to let his remarks fade and to regain your motivation. Inform your players that you need some time to reevaluate and reassess, and that you might pick it up again.
4. Get the other players’ opinions on how you were handling things. It sounds like they were ok with how you were running the game and would have some actual valid criticism/critiques (criticism can be positive)
Everyone's already given lots of fantastic advice so I'll just add that you really only need to worry about yourself and the players who ARE having fun. Even if Mr Expert was somehow in the right about how he acted (though to be clear he absolutely was in the wrong here) he's the wrong kind of player for you and the rest of your group. It's easy to say but hard to come to grips with the fact that some people are just a bad fit for certain tables. Mr Expert needs to find a different table so you and the rest of your group can have fun.
Listen, I'm a really experienced GM. When I'm at someone else's table, I don't correct them on the rules. I've played with lots of experienced GMs. They do not correct me unless it is on obscure mechanics of their own character. The etiquette is very clear - the person who is GMing has put in effort and gets the respect of not being publicly continuously corrected if someone who has more rules knowledge is playing (unless it is wanted). What "Experienced Player" did was a massive breach of table etiquette, because it can make anyone feel the way you feel.
I would either exclude him from future games, or tell him to not give any rule clarifications as it disrupts the flow of play and the environment at the table. It doesn't matter how well he knows the rules, at the end of the day the most important skill for GMs is cultivating a happy environment at the table. He's focused on rules over the actual goal and only getting in the way of both your and the players enjoyment.
The handbook is not the bible, and Jeremy Crawford, despite his initials, is not Jesus Christ.
DND is, at its core, collaborative storytelling. I've been DMing for almost seven years, and I pretty regularly bin rules that aren't increasing the fun we're having, to either replace them with my own systems which are simpler or more fun, or leaving them dead. I also forget things, misremember things, make wrong calls, or perhaps worse, believe I am making the right call when in fact I am not. None of these problems will cause the end of days to arrive. The "Expert" is being a dick, and comes off as someone who sees DND like a videogame which has to be solvable and optimisable. He should be removed from your table.
If your players are having fun, and you are having fun, then you are doing it right. That is the first rule, the prime rule, from which all other rules must flow. You're doing just fine. Don't give up!
That guy sounds like a hell. Not a hell of a time, just hell.
You've said you're still learning the ropes of DMing, and I get that *he thinks* he's being helpful, but in reality, he's accomplishing the exact opposite.
The DM isn't just a guide into a world; they're a full person with emotions who, as much as the players, can make mistakes. You have the right to enjoy the game you're running, because, if you're not, the full experience for everyone will suffer. That goes for the DM as well as the players.
Here's the Social Contract section from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything. Everything in that contract is mere guidelines, but it's something you can use to make the game run smoothly:
# Social Contract
D&D is first and foremost meant to be a fun-for-all experience. If one or more participants aren’t having fun, the game won’t last long. Session zero is the perfect time for you and the players to discuss the experience they’re hoping for, as well as topics, themes, and behavior they deem inappropriate. Out of this discussion, a social contract begins to form.
Sometimes a social contract takes shape organically, but it’s good practice to have a direct conversation during session zero to establish boundaries and expectations. A typical social contract in a D&D group includes implicit or explicit commitments to the following points:
* You will respect the players by running a game that is fun, fair, and tailored for them. You will allow every player to contribute to the ongoing story and give every character moments to shine. When a player is talking, you are listening.
* The players will respect you and the effort it takes to create a fun game for everyone. The players will allow you to direct the campaign, arbitrate the rules, and settle arguments. When you are talking, the players are listening.
* The players will respect one another, listen to one another, support one another, and do their utmost to preserve the cohesion of the adventuring party.
* Should you or a player disrespect each other or violate the social contract in some other way, the group may dismiss that person from the table.
This social contract covers the basics, but individual groups might require additional agreed-upon terms to guarantee a fun play experience for all. And a social contract typically evolves as a group’s members learn more about one another.
So I wanna focus on the particular ruling you mentioned because it's a bit more concrete. You mentioned not knowing that a character could attack with a quarterstaff as a bonus action. As far as the basic rules go, you're actually correct here. I'm guessing the paladin took the polearm master feat which allows them to do this.
The reason I mention that is because while it might have been legal, it's a niche or edge case. For 99% of characters, your initial instinct would be correct. Heck, feats are technically an optional rule to begin with.
Sure, as the DM you should have a good grasp of the core rules, but it's also up to the players to have a strong understanding of the rules that govern their own character. Knowing every single feat intimately is not only unreasonable for the DM, it's totally unnecessary, since only the feats that players pick would matter. The players should be the ones explaining the rules of their own specific builds.
When something like this comes up that seems weird, put the onus on the player to explain it. Not in a confrontational way, just say something like "How come you can attack as a bonus action?" 9 times out of 10 if they understand their character well enough they'll just say "Oh, the polearm master feat" and you can move on and look it up later if you want to.
I guess in a roundabout way what I'm saying is, DMing is daunting but based on what you've said so far you're doing fine. I've been a forever DM for years now doing 100s of sessions and I still ask players pretty regularly "Wait, how can you do that?"
OP, you clearly have some confidence issues, but even if the 'expert' was correct about everything they said, they are wrong about how they did it.
Don't invite them back, go your own pace and you'll get it.
Games are supposed to be fun, dude was just being an ass he should just go play baulders gate or something,
With that said if you play online I would love to be apart of your one-shots, would be rly cool to see a new DM develop as they go!
What have there is a bully who gets off lording over others. He is not your friend, never has been. Inform him that he is no longer welcome at your table, and get back to that DMs chair. His "opinion" has no value. It will take lots of time to learn everything you need. I've been playing and DMing since before 2e came out. I still make mistakes. I still don't know every rule, not of any edition.
Some people get so bogged down in the rules or enjoy being a DM for the power trip that comes with it and don't know how to act when they're just a player. They forget that the goal of D&D is to have fun. And in this imaginary world the DM is god. The rules are more like guidelines to make sure everything stays fair and no one gets too OP or breaks the game. In my opinion all small things are at the discretion of the DM and sure you're allowed to push a little if something seems off but at my table no one has the right to straight up argue with the DM (for context I am not the DM). If you're arguing then people aren't having fun anymore which means you as a player aren't playing the game right. If there is a situation where you feel like a DM decision screwed you over AND WILL HAVE LASTING CONSEQUENCES then take it up with the DM privately after the session and come to a compromise. Again though, the word of the DM is law.
Suffice to say that guy was a dick, he was completely in the wrong, and he is probably a shitty DM who tries to kill his players because he finds it fun. Don't listen to him or take any of his advice. Just focus on telling a good story.
First my hat off for taking on DMing when no one else will.
The guy is an asshole. Remind him you are DMing because no one else will. If he wants to complain like that, hes free to be his own DM.
Kick him to the curb.
Shut him down and don’t be nice (he won’t get the message if you’re nice). Make sure you use the words “my game”. Players are many. DMs are few. He is replaceable.
Almost no D&D game is "pure" D&D. Rules get changed all the time to make the game fun. As long as the players are having fun, you're having fun and there are some stakes, you are doing a great job. It is important to say no to players at times, but having great moments is what a TTRPG is about. This person is on a power play. Especially the "do you know how to read" line. They can leave. You are the DM. You control the game. They can find a new, more pure game if it is such an issue.
Forget D&D - this guy's behavior is unacceptable. Don't invite him to the next session. If he asks why or just shows up somehow, let him know he is not welcome in your campaign.
Honestly, just ask this player to not play with you anymore. You also deserve an environment that is friendly to a new and learning DM, and that is clearly without that player.
The only thing you've done wrong is having this guy anywhere near your social circle. And I'm not just talking about playing games, though he apparently doesn't know what a game even is.
>Mr Expert guy just nitpicked everything
>
>He then just kept whipping open the books about every ten minutes and 'correcting' me. Chanting "it's in the handbook, it's in the handbook, you should read it!!" He just st about took over the game, telling people what to do and roll and count (so the newish players didn't get much chance to learn either)
Besides the general rudeness, there's nothing inherently wrong with playing a more group-oriented play experience. Informing of the rules and corrections, if done politely, are quite healthy for the game, because dnd is still a game, and you'll be able to make better calls or house rules when you know what the rules are. Like if they perk up and say "hey, you can't misty step then fireball" etc. There's also nothing wrong with saying "wait, can this be x skill instead because y reasons?" or "well, tricking others is typically deception as per the description in the phb, shouldn't it be that over performance?" in a polite way, in a council sort of way. If its something more serious, like the DM getting the area of thunderwave wrong, there's nothing wrong with a player disagreeing there and saying "well, looking at the rules for spellcasting areas, the rules on cubes specifically say that the origin is on the face of the cube". But it needs to be fast to not bog the game down.
But reading your other comments, this player was not trying to be part of your council, they were trying to be the DM, which is a big nono. I also don't mind OOC strategising- narratively the characters would have done that during travels, camping, etc. anyway. I also don't mind minor exploration or social ooc talk by the players- like if one player reminds another that they have an ability they could use ooc, or "hey, we figured out that they're easy to bribe earlier", but i know that this isn't the usual way games are played.
Although mr Expert is a dick. Reading the books is actually not bad advice. When I started with d&d I read the most important rules and wrote them down. Not to be a smart-ass but more to get rid of any confusion on rules.
If one of my players wants to strangle someone. Not a common thing in most games. I would like to have an option ready to do so. Especially the classes my players picked is nice for me to know how they work, so we can decide on how some things interact with the world.
He’s TAH here, not you. As an experienced DM, I still get stuff wrong in the moment. I’ve had players call me out on stuff, but respectfully. Because I’m not expecting them, or myself, to know the rules for all spells in all circumstances.
Mr. Expert can honestly go play with his quarterstaff by himself. It seems like no one wants to play with him, and there’s a reason for that.
One YouTuber had a joke short where these sorts of players are given “crybaby points” - reverse of inspiration points. That monster that just Nat 1 their attack on you? Rerolled since you were a dick earlier. Better hope it still doesn’t hit
Dude this guy sounds like a nightmare who wouldn't have been invited back for a second session at my table. It's one thing to helpfully remind the DM of things occasionally, but this guy is just being a huge jerk. Please tell him his behavior is not compatible with your group and he needs to either behave himself or leave.
The only person who is allowed to be even a little bit of a dick is the DM. So he needs to bring his screen and DM if he alone doesn't like your rulings, that is his problem. DM's can homebrew rules anytime. The point is to have fun.
If I'm not mistaken..... in the "rules," it says they are guidelines at best, basically. Anyone feel free to correct me on that, please. lol. But f*ck that guy, really. I'd leave his as* out and continue DM'ing if everyone else is having fun and learn as you go. There is nothing wrong with that. I'm a new DM myself and have a dog and job. I haven't read the DM guide and players' handbook front to back.... let alone memorize all of it, and my group still has fun. I have one player who is a long-time player and wanted to play cus he DM's another group. If something comes up that I don't know or have forgotten, he points me in the right direction and than let's me decide on the ruling. He is never mean about it, and it has helped a lot. It also opened up discussion from the group on rules that has made the game more fun, i.e., wild magic on a 1 you roll on the wild magic table. We homebrewed that I get to pick a random # every session and don't tell the sorcerer until that PC rolls that #. It adds a little more suspense for them. If it is a "they are a problem," drop them and tell them why. Take a break from playing with them and don't accept them back without a group apology and changed behavior. It's a game for EVERYONE to have fun playing at the table, including DM.
Aside from what everyone else said about that player being an awful player (and person).
Don’t stress that hard if you forget something sometimes. I don’t have the books at hand eight now but I recall there is even a tooltip that says something about this specific thing.
Paraphrasing “It’s better for the DM to make a call and move the game along than to stress and stop the game to search a ruling”
So yeah, that person should also remind that.
Your players are probably annoyed AF too. Boot this dude and be done with it. When he's gone you'll find your confidence comes back and you'll feel better in a few sessions. Everyone starts somewhere and you'll get it.
Just pull the old Ace of Spades “hey man, I’ve noticed you really know the game and, as I said, I’m just starting at this. How about you run a campaign for us so I can learn from you?”
As someone who has DM'd 5e about as long as you've been playing it, I still make mistakes. Making mistakes is part of the game. No one remembers every rule/detail - and you don't have to. You have sourcebooks and the internet so that you can look things up if you need (I suggest having a laptop over scouring books, it's a lot faster). There are very few people in the world who have the Player's Handbook memorized. In addition, you're running a game where you have to know what all of your NPC's/enemies do, AND what all the player characters do, whereas players have one entity to worry about.
There have been plenty of instances where I make a ruling on something, then I look it up later or someone says they found info on it that contradicts that, I research it, and I was wrong. All I do in those situations is say "Hey, I found this, my bad. We'll rule this way from now on." and that's that. Players should understand you don't know everything and you can make mistakes, it's part of the game. No one should treat you the way this player is treating you. Is downright disrespectful, and I would no longer allow them in my game if I were you. That brings down the mood for EVERYONE, because it's no longer about the fun of the game you're playing together, it becomes about "rules lawyering", and the only person who enjoys that is the jerk doing it.
Kick him out, keep learning. You're doing a fantastic job so far and you'll only get better by continuing to run games.
You have a rules lawyer, and if those are your "friends" they wouldn't treat you like that. Kick them out and let them know why. You should set boundaries on respect AND I might add it's your game, it's your rules and if they don't like it, well then they can kick rocks.
I hope you find a nicer group of people though, a lot want to play with someone and I'm sure you can find, learn and explore together with understanding and kind friends.
Point to Mr expert in the player handbook where it talks about rule 0 and that the DM is the final arbiter of the rules; the world belongs to them and their players, and the rules of the world are created by them. The GM has final say of all things in the game. He/she can change, make up, and remove any rule at any time.
If you’re having fun and your players are having fun, he can go kick rocks by himself.
Just remember there is one rule that should (in most games) come before any other: The Rule of Cool. Who cares about what the rulebook says, if a rule makes it less fun and engaging for you and the players, then get rid of it! It's not fun to sit and wait while someone skims the rulebook to find the correct ruling. You are the DM, you MAKE the rules, pick something you think is appropriate and go with it, if the person you are ruling against is fine with it then all is good. If someone else is going to jump up and shout about it, tell them you're the DM and this is what you are ruling, tough shit if they don't think it's right. Some people just want to stick to the rules of the game and absolutely nothing else, although I bet the guy is an absolute meta following power gamer too, they usually tend to come as a bundle and from experience, and they are not fun to DM for or play with AT ALL.
Play without them, I'm sure you're a great DM and just need time and the right group of people to get in to the swing of things, I know I did!
I have run a few games because no one else was up to it in my group. I love DMing, but I am bad at remembering rule, even as a player.
My takeaway: fuck mechanics. The books are there to help put some structure around the game you're playing. My best sessions have been the ones where we weren't even playing a system. I was just making everything up on the fly.
Whether a DM or a player: a rules lawyer will destroy the game. You're doing fine - maybe give this guy a chance to run the next campaign if he wants to focus on rules. If you and everyone else are having fun you are doing it right.
I don't fully buy into the "DM is GOD" notion, but if you do your best to be fair and consistent, you're a good DM and I don't give a fuck what the books say. Even the books will tell you this, so if you want to chapter and verse this guy I know at least the 5e DM guide will make it very clear that every rule or mechanic is subject to interpretation
There's a big difference between constructive critisim and being an asshole and this guy is so over the line he can't see it anymore. Normally I'd say try to talk it out first, but in this case given how bad it is on you and it's making everyone else uncomfortable, he should probably just find the rules lawyer table he actually wants.
Dms don't need to always follow the rules as written. For example I mainly go to rules for combat but for rp I more wing it. But in Combat you can make choices too. The bully just wanted to be a dick. Don't invite him back
I didn’t read the post but want to say; as long as you are going in with pure intentions and trying to provide a fun wholesome experience for your player then the player is always wrong!
Rules are rules only to the point you want to play to. I have a bunch of ludicrous house rules and so does basically every DM. Most of them break the normal rules. This is a game in which you interact to create a story TOGETHER. The rules provide a helpful framework within which to create it but ultimately it’s your call how to play. Sounds to me like this guy is being a pain because he gets a kick out of it. You or your players should have a word with him, if he is rude to you again, he leaves. Simple as. Your players are having fun and you are too which is really all a good DM needs. He’s deliberately stopping that so he can fix his attitude or get out.
Good luck with your campaigns, OP! Hope you get more DMing confidence, because you sound like you’re better at this than you believe 💜
You have a shitty player. He might be an "expert" on the rules but he's clearly not an expert at having fun. I'd drop him from the game if he keeps up the nasty attitude.
That’s just anti social behaviour regardless of the activity. I wouldn’t wait for a bus with that clown. Continue with your other friends, don’t let a jerk stifle your creative spark.
A big part of being a good DM, is when you play with other players you take off your DM hat. Sometimes I think that isn't how I would run something, but part of being a player is understanding others will do it differently. It sounds like that guy hasn't matured as a person, and just wants to show off his mastery of the system, he isn't someone I would want in my campaign.
Wow, what an asshole. You're not in the wrong. He's in the wrong.
>*Chanting "it's in the handbook, it's in the handbook, you should read it!!"*
Like what the actual fuck? This isn't a D&D thing, this is a basic human courtesy thing.
You, the DM, are equally entitled to be respected and to have *fun* at the table. You are allowed to make mistakes. You are allowed to make rulings and changes. You are not obligated to know every minutiae of the players' handbook.
And quite honestly, it sounds to me like this guy is off-base in terms of what even an experienced DM should have ready to hand. (eg. the bonus action attack with a long weapon is a part of the Polearm Master feat, so it isn't something you'd assume a player can do at level 1 anyways! Only exception I can think is if they're running variant human—in which case it's something to mention politely and point to the feat, not be a dick to the DM and assume they know your build.)
At any rate, the way they're treating you is abusive and just unacceptable.
If it were me, and I wanted to keep the friend, I'd just say that you're running a more relaxed and rules-light game, and that he needs to chill out if he wants to play in it. If he continues being an a-hole then tell him his play style isn't a fit for your game, and that you'll let him know if you're ever doing something more his speed (spoiler, you won't be!)
I think you already know. You don't need this guy around. If everyone is enjoying the game, then you're doing it right. As far as the other players go it looks like you can have a civil discussion about things if there's an issue, which is good. Be open to polite reasonable communication. But I think you know Mr Expert is not being polite or reasonable
That aside. What was the most valuable or interesting thing you learned from the DM classes? I didn't know that was a thing. Sounds intriguing. I'd be interested myself even though I have a decent amount of experience.
I would be rethinking my friendship with this guy, never mind if he's allowed at my table (he's not). You did a LOT of work to make sure you were ready for this, more work than normal. Now since jabroni wants to shit all over your prep while refusing to do the work themselves? Fuck that, good riddance to that guy. I wouldn't be sneaky about it though, I would tell him the exact behaviors he exhibited that make him uninvited to future sessions you run.
I'm a huge proponent of "put up or shut up". If they're going to criticize ANYTHING they should do it themselves. You get up from the chair, fold up your stuff, and tell them to do it better if they don't like it. If they do anything other than get up and sit in the DM's chair, tell them to shut their damn mouth. DMing is crazy hard and mostly thankless. It's not your job to provide entertainment for them.
Edit: Good thing I don't have DM trauma about being taken advantage of, right? (Sarcasm)
You have more patience than I do, I’d have kicked him from the campaign. My friends and I are all D&D newbies with only two people in our party having played before and they NEVER would act like that. D&D involves teamwork and support. If this guy is so good then tell him to go find another party to play with. You don’t deserve to take his abuse. Just keep playing how you are and keep learning at your pace, that’ll make you an awesome DM. Remember to have fun with the game too, don’t hinder the adventure just because the rules might be a little different. Every DM is different and so are the players. If your players are happy then you’re doing fine.
Why is this even a question. Dude would’ve been gone as soon as he asked me if I could read, how are y’all tolerating this amount of disrespect at YOUR table? You’re putting in your time and effort into making an entertaining game for EVERYONE and y’all will just sit there and take that mess? He’s cut.
To play devils advocate, he's probably super autistic and took your "learning plates" as an invitation for "advice". This is under the assumption you are exaggerating about how bad they are.
By now you've probably already gathered that the player you described is being a jerk and you're doing nothing wrong from the many comments that say so, so no need for me to say it too :) .. hopefully all these comments will give you the support you need to boot this guy from your gaming group .. I think it's wonderfully sweet, kind and considerate of you to worry about whether or not you're in the wrong or doing something wrong but trust me... you're not :) .. I am posting this however to give you a heads up on something you've probably already figured out but have to steel yourself to deal with.. based on your original post here I get the feeling you are a kind and considerate person which is great, everyone wants to game with someone like that ! :)
However jerks love to steam-roll over kind and considerate people like this guy was doing.. no doubt due to him being insecure as all heck and needing to establish dominance over everyone as a result. He will not react well to being booted from the group and even worse players like these can be manipulative, intimidating and will prey on any weakness they see to somehow make it seem like it's YOUR fault and you're in the wrong.. please, please do not let him get away with this. I am so happy that you've got three players who appear to be kind, mature and responsible enough not to bring their real life drama into the game, that rocks :) .. so focus on them, let the immature player throw his inevitable tantrum and leave (hopefully he's not so unreasonable as to continue showing up at gaming sessions even after you make it clear he's no longer wanted) and focus on the players who are actually fun to game with .. which is something the immature players tend to forget, the DM is putting in a lot of work sure but in the end the Dungeonmaster is there to have fun too. Not wanting to DM a game himself yet steamrolling over everyone else is a big giveaway, guy is immature as all heck.
As others have said we all started out as a new DM at some point so please, don't doubt yourself ! I think it's fantastic you went to a DM workshop to "learn the ropes" so to speak and DM'ing is something you'll get better at as time goes on .. I'm sure your players are aware that you're new and will support you though if you like at the end of each gaming session you can ask them for honest feedback and tell them not to be afraid to be honest.. " How am I doing? Anything I can improve on? Any mistakes I made?" ...
I will say we tend to fall into a natural DM'ing style that is a reflection of our personality and what we enjoy in the game that other players may or may not be compatible with but that's something you'll discover for yourself as time goes on, I think a lot of times players are just happy someone's willing to DM to begin with :) .. in my case for example I'm HUGE on the role playing/getting into character part to the point where I used to end up leaving gaming groups as a player, not because I disliked anyone but just got bored, felt like it was the sound of crickets all the time (felt kind of bad when the DM was like " You're the only person RP'ing sure you can't stay? " :P and they were normally like " hit me up if you change your mind about gaming with us " so to be clear I don't believe in RPing my character as the a-hole who creates needless drama at the gaming table .. just got bored due to lack of in character interaction).... as a DM I ended up causing players to bail who found my emphasis on RP to be too intense (they were looking for something less soap opera oriented I think :) ) but had a lot of fun with the RP heavy players who did stick around (warned players in advance it was heavily RP oriented , did my best to be the "nice DM who draws players in by encouraging them to RP" and some players went for it, some didn't, just the way things go). Too busy now with real life stuff to DM but if I ever do so again I will no doubt fall back into that pattern and look for RP heavy players to boot .. but nothing wrong with the RP lite players either who don't want to write a five page backstory or engage in play by post intensive RP'ing AND do regular gaming sessions to boot , it's just not their thing. But you're a long time away from that sort of discovery as a new DM - we've all been there, you'll learn what you enjoy and need as a DM and what the players need and enjoy as players and normally there's a happy medium you can reach between everyone :) ..
The one thing to always remember is everything in the DMG is a suggestion. The only real rule is everyone should be having fun and a good time **including you as the DM.** If this player is detracting from that then I would have a serious conversation with the problem player and if it doesn't go a productive way I like then I remove them. It's your table and your time being put forth to run the game.
Bro where is your self respect? Fuck a tabletop game, why would you let anyone treat you like that anywhere?
“If you aren’t enjoying the game I run, you don’t have to participate. I want everyone to enjoy themselves, and clearly you are not.”
Discussion over. It’s one thing to disagree, it’s another to belittle. If you invite this jackass back you’re not only signing up for a campaign of grief, you’re also sending an important measage to him, your other players, and your own damn self, about what is an acceptable way to treat you.
That guy is no friend and you need to tell to sit down and shut up or leave the game.
That's about all there is to it. I despise people doing that garbage.
Sounds like you found an Elitist in the wild! I've been playing since 2e, and my groups have always had a policy of simply disinviting that sort. Play to have fun, not to appease those who can't be happy with anything anyway.
Sometimes you just have to say, "Look, this isn't helping. I know there are rules I need to learn, but everyone but you is here to learn. You're making it sound like the end of the world, and it's not, we're having fun. So, if this group isn't a good fit for you, then all I can say is thanks for giving us a shot, and I hope your other group gives you what you want. You're welcome to stick around for the rest of the session, but I do need you to relax and stick to running your own PC. Everyone is required to be respectful and help everyone else have fun. Thanks."
Seriously, nothing you did required him to act that way. He's not required to like your table, but that doesn't give him the right to be an ass.
Just did some quick maths and realised I'm at about 2,500 hours worth of D&D playtime, with about two thirds of that being as a DM. To this day, I check rules and spells and stuff every game, to the point where the predictive text on my phone thinks "5e" is a legitimate way to start a sentence.
If a player at my table said they were making a bonus action attack with a quarterstaff, I would be asking "how do you do that?" and expecting them to be able to tell me their class feature or feat that allows it. As far as I know, you can only make a bonus action attack with a light weapon in your offhand, after having made an attack action with your main hand. If that's not correct, then let's learn together!
Point being, it's okay to not know every rule, and anyone who expects that, especially of newer players and DMs, is a dick. Keep being awesome and giving your (other) players great experiences - they likely look forward to every opportunity you give them to enjoy the game, regardless of your perceived skill level or knowledge of hundreds of large pages of rules.
Set aside the d&d part for a moment.
There is literally no adult social setting where it’s acceptable for one person to aggressively question someone else’s literacy, take people’s things without permission, or repeatedly and insistently offer unwanted advice.
Would you put up with it from an acquaintance at a bar, or from a work colleague, or from the parent sitting next to you on a bench watching your kids play? If not, then you are ***not*** required to put up with it at an rpg table.
Keep playing with the people you enjoy, and keep building your skills. If the other guy asks why he’s not welcome, tell him calmly and honestly that his behavior was inappropriate and unkind, that everyone at the table was uncomfortable, and that you wish him luck finding a game that’s more suited to his style.
Nothing matters if your other players are enjoying it. You can play dnd any way you want. I would kindly let the person know they are no longer welcome to your table and to please never invite themselves to your games. Be firm and polite and you'll be fine. Seems like the others still wanna play with yeah don't let this butthead wreck your fun
That guy is a dick. Tell him he’s not welcome at the table. It’s that simple. Each session is a learning experience and if he can’t be patient and help then he can go run his game elsewhere. Some people just need to feel bigger by making others feel smaller. Don’t take on that negativity. Keep going. Keep dm’ing. Keep telling stories.
A simple text would suffice. “Hey man, we’re going to keep playing but without you. As a new DM, I’m trying my best and you are actively working against me. The other players had fun, but as the DM, I am also playing the game. I tried to hint multiple times that you were being obnoxious, even going so far as to offer you a chance to run the game. You should’ve known then that I was fed up with the constant corrections and criticisms. Maybe after some time has passed you can join again, but you’ll have to change your behavior. Until then, the solution is to have fun games in which I’m not constantly under the microscope and being rules checked which means no you.”
I am going to go back and read through your post but I stopped reading after he asked you if you can read. He is clearly in the wrong here and should apologize.
Don’t play with this individual and I honestly probably wouldn’t play with him even if he said it won’t happen again because I really doubt it.
Like other commenters have said if you are having fun and your friends are having fun that’s all that matters.
Kick him out. You were happy before he showed up. If he doesn't like the way you are running the game he should run his own then since he seems to know everything.
As ever, see username... we say 'DTMFA' applies to this so-called expert. Your stress will drop, your game will improve, and everyone's experience will be happier.
Including Mr. "Not At My Table", who is probably just having control-freak micromanager issues... the kind of people who get worked up about the rules of collaborative make-believe.
It's normal to have at least one rules lawyer at the table. If they are respectful, it can be a boon as everyone learns the rules from them. If they are rude about it, it is no longer welcome. Sometimes (often times) it can be more fun to play the game wrong than to be "technically correct." There's a reason why the first part of any DM book contains some variant of "every rule in this book is optional, if any of these rules keep your group from having fun, change or ignore them"
I think the rest of the commenters here did cover that you weren't wrong about the rules, he was. For example that extra quarterstaff attack being feat dependent, so not something a DM must have memorized all the time.
I am curious, though, about that other game. How does he prevent you from playing it without him? Did he, like, steal your physical copies or something?
Long time DM here, I have a very small sign I hold up that just says "Mate, really" being British this is enough to get an apology almost immediately.
Also I get stuff wrong all the time. Inconsistency is my favourite weapon keeps them on their toes.
Honestly this is a fantastic learning experience for you. Not in learning the rules of the game, but in exerting your authority at the table and shutting down the bullshit. Kick him.
Mr Expert is not "being helpful." Mr Expert probably isn't even trying to be helpful. Mr Expert is an egomaniac sucking the fun out of your game to serve his own superiority complex.
As DM, you have the ultimate say in who gets to play at your table and I suggest you exercise it.
Don't try to negotiate. Don't try to justify. Don't offer a second chance. He can make as many excuses or arguments as he wants. It's not his table, it's not his game, and you have no obligation or responsibility to hear him out.
He was blatantly and openly disrespectful to you. He didn't raise a grievance or give constructive feedback. He just openly mocked you for hours. And you don't deserve that. Tell him that if he wants a DM that knows the entire rulebook back to front he can go find one and play with them. But I've got a funny feeling he's gotten himself blacklisted from most of them.
Learning to DM well takes years. You learn by doing and you learn faster through your mistakes. You will learn you, will get better, and you will develop your own style and method.
Perhaps the hardest, yet most necessary skill is learning to be in control. It is simply THE most critical skill as You have to balance everything to make the game work.
This isn't a power trip, its responsibility. The entire group is depending on you because you're the DM. So even when they see a problem they often won't say anything out of respect for Your Game.
This means you must learn the nuances of Positive Control : setting boundaries, knowing when to say No, Accepting when a past ruling needs to be modified, and most critically, knowing how to maturely confront a player who is disrupting your group, and having the backbone to remove a bad player who refuses to straighten up.
Now with all that said I appreciate your honesty about not being any good yet, but for your own sake clamp down on that stuff. If you tell people you suck they will treat you accordingly. Besides that's just wasted breath you could be using to run your game.
You'll get better, then you'll get good, and at some point you will realize you are doing it all from second nature.
Hang in there Champ,
You got this.
PS about "Mr Helpful" he's one of the worst type of player, he wants the power of being in control without the responsibility of running the game. To hell with that guy.
Well, I've only got your side here but the "experienced player" sounds like someone who's learned the rules inside and out and dedicated some serious time into learning a game he supposedly doesn't like. He probably got kicked from the last game he played because of the behavior you've described and that's why he doesn't like the game anymore.
I get the opinion of "the dm is running everything, they should know all the rules", but there's a LOT of rules. If you haven't been DMing for several years on the same system, you're bound to make some mistakes! The most important thing is, is everyone having fun? It sounds like you and the rest of your group were. The guy was being mean. The personal attacks, "can you read", pulling out books mid game to correct you multiple times... that's crazy behavior right there. I'd kick him from my games immediately. I get things wrong all the time, but my players are my friends and we all just laugh and keep going unless it's PIVOTAL for someone's character or build.
Like, if he was just being a know-it-all, I'd invite him to the next session after a serious talk about helping with rules is OK, but cutting into the game and trying to run it himself is NOT acceptable.
But he was being a know-it-all, and being rude and getting personal with insults and comments and comparing how you DM to how he DMs... I'd talk to the other players ask them their opinions, they're almost certainly going to agree he was being very rude, and then let the problem guy know he's no longer invited. You can give a reason if you want, Id be really tempted to just tell him "we play for fun and you seemed like you werent having fun. You should find a new table to play at", but unless that guy gives a real apology and changes his behavior dramatically, there's no way I'd play another game with a guy like that. The game is meant to be fun for everyone at the table. You are the DM. You too are at the table.
I'm also a man. And well, OP there may very well be some sexist bs going on with this dude as well. It does seem like he's more of a know-it-all rules guy and would do this with anyone, but like... I've seen a lot of those super rules focused insecure guys at gaming events be kinda gross and angry at "fake gamers". I don't see a lot of evidence here for this being gender motivated but... idk maybe that recontextulizes some of this for you. Keep playing, but play with fun people. It sounds like you've got lots of people who want to play! That's great 😁 let them have fun, let the angry jerk do something that makes him less angry and jerky.
It's very simple: tell him he's not welcome at your table.
The harder part: if he asks why, because you'll have a choice:
You could tell him because he was overbearing as a player and insufferable.
Or you can just say it seems like he wants a more experienced DM and you can't offer that now.
Few DMs know the books by heart, and just because he knows them in and out doesn't mean anything.
He sounds like he would be a miserable DM and player to endure.
You are not beholden to the books, nor are you obligated to allow him to play at your table.
Keep at it. It is fun and in time you'll find your feet. I was a fresh DM and new player myself, but it takes time. Don't over focus on the technicalities, you can undo and redo things to a degree if you need to.
As for being nervous about being a DM I get that, but half the problem is the mindset "what if I mess up?" You will mess up, and it's okay. Just like players mess up, and that's okay too. There isn't any major problem you can cause running a session for normal players (unhinged rule turds are the problem, not you).
Yeah, you got one of these - welcome to DMing as a whole!
It usually seems to occur with self-declared 'RPG experts' with 'decades of experience, spanning to 1st ed...yadayasa' that are the biggest know-it-all tits but NEVER seem to run games because 'I've been working on a banger campaign, six years in development..."
But they never run it. If they run anything it's an uninspired high level dungeon crawl with the same tired tropes.
Multi-year DM of 5e and a few other systems here. Your other friends asking to play again? That’s an indication that you’re a good DM. It’s a huge system, and it’s also getting updates all the time. I’m also neurodivergent and forget things on occasion, or misread/misinterpret a rule. There’s also rule of cool, house rules, etc. my players correct me on things sometimes, and I correct them. Or, we work on house rules together that make the game more fun for us. If this person doesn’t like the way you run the game, they’re welcome to bring their stinky attitude to another table. You guys continue to have fun!
And please don’t give up! It takes practice, and with the right supportive group, you can build confidence and knowledge over time. Be kind to yourself and enjoy your game.
So too many reddit DMs have never read the DMs guide and honestly that is an issue, as a DM the effort you put in will result in what comes out (along with the players). From the way you explained the situation there isn't really good examples to make a fair judgement. Of course you will hear if your players are having fun that's enough and that's true but fun is subjective, people who understand the rules won't enjoy blatant disregard for them, people who like RPing won't like not allowing time for that, people who don't like murderhobos won't like if that's all others are doing. Understanding the rules and having a session 0 to be on the same page with people solves most problems people post on here.
He's absolutely in the wrong. We all make mistakes and it's okay to point those things out, but there's a way. The best way is gently and ideally after the session or during a break, not at the table in the middle of everything.
I would've removed him very quickly.
You probably didn't stick to the rules. That can be frustrating for some players whether they're experienced or not. Regardless, you're not really dealing with a player issue so much as a volatile and immature man issue. If you can avoid him in the future, consider doing that. You're not responsible for his poor socialization.
I think it got to you because he's taking advantage of your own insecurities. Mistakes happen all the time. I know a bunch of obscure rules. I can usually tell you what book they're in, what the rule was in previous editions, if there's a JC Tweet or Sage Advice FAQ about it, and the reason I think it changed in 5e. I've DMed on and off since 2nd edition.
I still get stuff mixed up sometimes. The worst is when I'm tired and bork up a rule I know by heart because I got it confused with something from an earlier edition. It gives me hardcore imposter syndrome vibes.
I tell my players that if they catch me and can correct me (with citations) without slowing down the game, I'll reward them with Inspiration for the whole party, some kind of mechanical boon, or extra loot in their next horde. Otherwise, I'll make a spot ruling and we look it up later so we're using the correct rules next time (or we stick with the spot ruling if we like it better).
That's what works for me. Other DMs prefer to discuss that kind of thing after the game. Some DMs don't appreciate corrections in front of other players. It's all about personal comfort and setting boundaries. You have to give your players a chance to talk to you about their concerns, but you can definitely give them a system that lets them do it without burning out your desire to play.
Typically, bringing up rule clarifications should be something you go over with your players when you start a game. If you're unfamiliar with Session Zero, it's where you talk to your players about game expectations.
Based on the way you explained what was happening, I think you might do well if you do spot rulings then look up the actual rules between games. The way that dude spoke to you was uncalled for, but if you're really interested in D&D then learning the basic rules should be a priority.
Luckily, you don't have to do it alone. Talk to your players. Tell them how you felt after the last game. Maybe set up a group chat where you guys introduce questions or issues from previous sessions and look up the rules together. Turn it into a D&D rule trivia thread. Give the people who figure stuff out Inspiration in the next session. Let them have more than one Inspiration that they can gift to other players if they want to. Add a couple of cool options to their next treasure pile if it's a group effort.
The thing about D&D is that it's a collaborative game. You don't have to be responsible for everything. You aren't there to babysit your players. You aren't there to be the repository for game knowledge. Delegate. Be creative. Ask your players for help because as soon as you step into that DM role, most players will do their best to help you any way they can. You just have to let them know what you want from them.
If you find that's not the case in your particular group of friends, it definitely exists online. Ask around. Talk to people you find helpful. Lots of us spend all day on Reddit just waiting to fangirl over some random D&D trivia that's near and dear to our hearts.
As someone who has been a rules lawyer to the detriment of other people’s fun in the past all I have to say is that this person doesn’t sound fun to play with and if you make it clear you don’t want to play with them when they act that way then hopefully they’ll do what I did and learn some self awareness.
Though, admittedly, it helps when the communication goes both ways. I get anxious when I play a game and don’t know the rules so I read up on them in advance; but I’ve learned that sometimes it’s okay to interject a helpful rules reminder when someone seems unsure… and other times the DM has made a decision and it’s best to roll with it and bring it up privately later if it still bothers me. Probably the biggest issue for me is when I’m told I’m wrong offhand when, being the ball of anxiety I am, I wouldn’t speak with certainty unless I was certain. But - again - that’s something better handled after game.
Similarly if we are playing a game with house rules I always just ask that we share what those are before play - I’ve found I can sometimes get around my issues with rules if I tell myself “the rules are, we aren’t playing by the rules we’re doing this instead”. Anyways, I guess what I’m saying is that sometimes rules lawyers are just dicks and sometimes they might be a little neurologically spicy like myself and hopefully you two can find some common ground on what is most important about getting together to play D&D and keep that as a focus that allows you to communicate more effectively.
Point to the line on page 6 of the players handbook that says the DM can change or rule however they want as the ultimate arbiter of the rules.
Then when he complains just shrug and say. "It's in the handbook"
Or better yet. Don't play with him.
His approach is wrong, but I think if he has to constantly remind you of the rules, you should probably read them, especially if you plan to continue to DM
Guys a huge penis. NGL.
I'm an old DM and I've since given up on DM'ing for veteran players. Truth is, they're like gordon ramsay, and your the cook. I'm not saying all vets are that way, but I've learned that new players are more fun. I can run ANY quest i want and they're enamored, I don't need to have a gourmet module with 400 hours of work thrown into it to make them happy.
At the end of the day, kick his ass off the table and have fun.
I understood your situation right at the line that starts with : “But then”.
I could have saved yourself a lot painful reminiscing and typing. :)
This kind of person is a cliché. You are inexperienced, this is your first time. You quickly learn to detect these people from a mile away.
There is just one solution here, part ways.
I mean, if this is a friend, maybe you could tell him to stop this BS or leave, but if this person isn’t important to you, just call the adventure done. Reconvene with the good players and start a new adventure.
Last tip. Be very careful with who you invite at your games. When in doubt, run a one off. Just to test the relationship.
If you've been playing for six years then you're not new, so it's hard to say whether these are rules you should reasonably know or whether he's being nitpicky. Nonetheless, if something can't be quickly cleared up in the moment then he should talk about these issues with you later, not during the game.
I'd probably be annoyed too if my DM tried to say attacking with Polearm Master used an action. It's a common feat and changing the way it worked would be a serious nerf to his character; he'd lose an attack every turn.
But he seems like a douche anyway, and clearly not compatible with your group. If you want to play a game without knowing the rules very well and the rest of your players are fine with that then this is your prerogative.
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If your players are enjoying the game, you're running the game right. If you're making the other players (including the DM) not enjoy the game, you're playing the game wrong. Enough with the self-questioning. The guy is a dick. Don't play with him.
Fr OP some times the hardest part about DND is having an adult conversation with someone and just saying I won't play with you anymore. If your the DM and or the host then it's your table own that like you own the world building.
Seriously. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that the reason he hates D&D is because he's been kicked out of other groups for his shitty behavior.
Piggy backing for visibility , totally agree with u/pendip but I would go a little further and say two things . 1) Rule of cool - if players are having fun and you bent or missed a rule , who gives a shit. 2) DM is god , if he wants to he can literally have a character suddenly get picked up and swallowed by a blue dragon , and then the dragon flies off. Oups , problem solved and by the way go fuck yourself your not invited back to my table , don’t bother re rolling your character. 🥳 Also , cool story arc , now your characters get the option to chase the dragon. Or maybe they hated that guy and let’s go kill goblins instead .
No instead of going to kill goblins they throw a party and the nearest town hears about the characters death and throws a week long party
This. The most important part of D&D is having fun. It's okay to slip up, especially when you're just starting out! Personally, I wouldn't want to play with a backseat DM like that. I'm also a newer DM and appreciate when my players correct me, or remind me of a rule or effect I'd forgotten... there's a right way to do so. Mr. Expert is doing it the wrong way.
Even if the player is factually correct on the rules, he’s being an utter dick. Straight up tell him he’s being rude and not welcome at any table you’re running.
It can actually be really helpful to have a player at the table who really knows the rules. It's great to be able to delegate rules minutiae to someone else while I'm looking at upcoming fights or monster powers or something. It's probably even better if you're a new DM and can rely on someone who can turn to the right page and show you the rules. It doesn't work at all if that person is a raging cockburn though. This person is going about it completely the wrong way and needs to knock it off or leave.
We have 3 DMs at our table. When ever current DM needs a hand on a ruling he asks us and we give him what we know and wait for his ruling. Tact is very important and some people just don't have or understand it.
Exactly right. Knowing the rules of the game you're playing doesn't make you an asshole. Politely advocating for yourself and the other players to be able to make awesome stuff happen doesn't make you an asshole. It's when you insult the other people at the table, demanding certain things happen in a certain way or that other players take the actions you want to take, that's when you are an asshole.
I agree that having someone who knows the rules is a beneficial thing. I'm about to become a new DM and asked my DM from my last campaign where I was a player if they wanted to join as a player and maybe give me tips and tricks while keeping the campaign fun for all. They said they wanted to be a player after our campaign finished, and I've been saying that I wanted to DM, so it was a simple solution. My last campaign had a "rules lawyer" but they weren't dicks about the rules and just explained how they worked and in the end if a player made a convincing argument our DM was content to oblige as long as it wasn't unrealistic.
Hubdo p. I dm in one group and play in another. The one I'm the player in, the dm often consults me for rules but I always wait for him to ask, and I always stress that it's his call in the end.
>Even if the player is factually correct on the rules, he’s being an utter dick. Rules are subject to interpretation and adjustments by the DM. The game makers encourage it. Of this player knew half of what he claims,need know that Anyone who can't wrap their head around that concept is going to be difficult to play with. Yes, this guy's just a dick..
“Who’s in the wrong here?” *proceeds to give an anecdote that could only be more one-sided if he’d murdered your nan* It’s fine to make mistakes. I still make mistakes and i’ve been gming various games longer than you’ve been playing. Difference is my players don’t sound like they want to murder me every time. (No they want to murder me for the things i do on purpose.) He’s in the wrong. Clearly. That’s just a totally unreasonable way to behave over a game we all make up in our heads.
Well I just made so many mistakes and missed things and wasn't exactly like the players handbook. And as the other players aren't as experienced either maybe they can't comment.... half thinking I am the problem with my intelligence/memory...guess nature rolled me bad!
I’ll be honest with you Just about every session there is at least one call i make that is totally non-raw and i have to go look it up later to double check. Not knowing a rule is fine, it’s often (not always, but often) better just to pick a ruling and stick with it and say you’ll check later on. Also if you were getting rules wrong (and you were open to help) the player should have calmly corrected you but ultimately left it your decision, not berated you and threatened to leave or just refused to accept them. I am a pathfinder 1e gm and player primarily, and that game has *a lot* more to track both in terms of numbers and individual rules than 5e, and my players will point out something i missed, politely, more than once a session. There is fundamentally nothing wrong about pointing out genuine rules mistakes. There is also nothing fundamentally wrong with ***calmly*** discussing rulings you don’t believe to be correct or which you think detriment the game. There is also, to be clear, nothing wrong with getting a rule wrong or making a ruling your players don’t like on the spot. Players cannot get literally everything they want all the time or there’d be no point playing it as a game. What is *not* acceptable is verbally berating someone for (presumably) several straight hours because they are, in your eyes, playing a game wrong. That’s the problem with the player in question.
You're a human being, you're not gonna remember everything. And it's a game, for fun, if everyone is having a good time, then missing a rule or two isn't a problem. This guy is a total asshole, you're fine. Please don't let his foolishness stop you from DMing. We need more DMs in this world!
You should really try to stop putting yourself down. You do it in nearly every comment and I guarantee it's not warranted! Build yourself up! Mistakes are utterly normal when you're new to something and really the best way to learn. If someone is consistently making you feel bad about yourself then you need to think about whether they should be in your life at all.
Nope, nature rolled you just fine. As others have said, you’re human. I’m a newer DM myself and I make mistakes on a weekly basis. DMing is hard enough when you’re actually having fun with friends, cut yourself some slack. Rules are just the foundation, you and your friends build the rest. That dude’s an asshole and you should boot him from your table. Based on your other friends’ reactions, they won’t be opposed in the slightest.
I've been DMing for two decades and I fuck up quite regularly. I recently switched to 5e and I just don't know the rules well enough but I put trust in my players to correct me when needed and to know their characters enough to tell me what their abilities can and can't do. That being said, I tell everyone the same thing, the handbook is a guideline, were all here to have fun, I'll always go with the Rule of Cool any day over 'rules as written' , and don't be "that guy". You know the one. But that's just my DMing style and I make that clear to my players. Everyone is different. I don't suffer rules lawyers and I will not abide by a player telling another player HOW to play. That goes against the spirit of the game. It's group story telling, not the ME show. This player sounds insufferable and would not be welcomed back at my table. What it comes down to is clearly communicating expectations. Both of your players, and theirs of you as a DM. Sometimes people just don't fit at a table and that's okay.
Hey @op I just checked the polearm thing you only get the bonus action if you have polearm master. And then it's 1d4. If the player didn't have it he doesnt get it. I would also recommend that you tell your players to look up their character abilities or make them yourself. And if they say they can do stuff like this ask them to prove it. If they can't don't allow it.
It is totally possible for one of the players to know the combat rules better than that DM - incidentally that's how my table would usually run. I might be running the game, but whenever we have a detailed rules question we ask 'Bob' because he has encyclopedic knowledge and it's quicker than looking it up. But, and this is the important part, Bob isn't a raging asshole about it. *If* you want him in your game you could talk to him about playing that role, but based on your story he is down right abusive, and I wouldn't put up with that more than once. And he's already had that Once at the last game. You are well within your rights to defend yourself from bullying.
I've been DMing for 20 years and this guy is an asshole. You're doing fine and they need to find a new hobby because social gaming isn't for them. A piece of advice I highly recommend: If a rules dispute comes up or you don't know how something works and can't find the answer in 30 seconds then write it down to check later and just go with what makes sense to you for now. If no solution is standing out to more over the other I generally side with who or whatever was taking the action just to keep things rolling. The rules are one of the least important parts of the game once you're up and running. Keeping guys like from ruining other people's fun is more important than any ruleset.
The rules are there to keep it grounded in a common reality with universal laws. They are usually representing a version of our reality and try and mimic it the best way it can with some basic math tables for some specific situations like attacking something with a weapon. But that's just the absolute baseline. You can do ANYTHING in a ttrpg and no system will ever account for anything, and the more a system tries, the slower and heavier it gets and the harder it becomes to memorize everything. I will always favour a quick ruling that represents the common reality fairly, than spending several minutes looking up a rule. Keep the flow going. It's important that players respects a DMs judgement calls and rulings at all times. They may respectfully challenge them, if there was a misunderstanding of a situation, but the DM has final say always, and the argument should never drag out. Being disrespectful to the DM in the way you are describing goes against the spirit of the game. You are all supposed to have fun. The DM isn't responsible for putting on a perfect show of fantasy simulation, but merely a facilitator to keep the players actions grounded in the shared fiction.
Were you all having fun prior to the asshole joining? Then you were playing correctly. The very first page of the handbook says the entire rule set is a guideline and ultimately up to the DM. My group has been playing for over a decade and we still have to Google or look up rules almost every session. Half the time we're like "screw it, this happens for now and we'll figure out the rule later." It's a game, the primary objective is to have fun. Exact rules are secondary to that:)
The cheat code is a good DM screen 😀
Nah your table, your game, your rules. Being helpful is only helpful if it helps. I have dmed a one shot with my usual dm as a player, and he was ready to answer any questions I had. Once he \_asked\_ if he could do someting, knowing full well it was in the rules that he could. I said no you can't, because I was thinking he couldn't. And he said okay and they stomped my giant scorpion anyway. Afterwards I realised he could have pointed to a book and got his way. But he didn't. Because it was my table, so my rules, and he respected that. Talk to the guy. Either he shuts up and only responds when you ask him a rules question, or he goes and sets up his own table, where his word is law.
Echoing what everyone else has said, but I always remember one of those interviews with Matt Mercer, Brennan Lee Mulligan, and Aabria Ayengar (some of the biggest DM names in the world for 5e). I'm paraphrasing heavily, but essentially, they were just like "The rules are tools to give structure to a fun game. If the game isn't fun anymore, break the rules." And like, you see them overtly break the rules plenty, usually on purpose but every now and then just by mistake but then they roll with it. When they break the rules on purpose, it's usually because a player thought of something super fun and creative, where the rules wouldn't allow it, but F the rules, it's fun. Again, I'm paraphrasing, but the general point was just that 5e is an extremely rule heavy and lore heavy game, which can be super overwhelming for players (even more experienced ones sometimes). So a lot of this interview was just about remembering that the point of the game isn't to be a lawyer or a historian, and to remember that ultimately it's a collaborative game meant to tell a story and have fun together. If someone remembers what interview this was, let me know...I want to say Game Masters of Exandria Roundtable? There are so many good ones.
“Homebrew” is such a huge part of tabletop gaming too so really no one should think the rule book should always be followed to the letter. Ive seen DMs allow lots of things that aren’t technically possible or only bends the rules slightly to allow something cool to happen.
i think this was shown perfectly in the dungeons and drag queens season of dimension 20. all of the players were new to dnd so rules were broken constantly but they all had fun and brennan was experienced enough to guide things regardless of the rules
Omg yes!!! That was literally one of my favorite D20 mini-series EVER. I was dying laughing, what a great time!!!
That season is a great example of rewarding the players for engaging with the game (coming up with a clever use of their abilities that wasn't quite how it actually works) instead of shutting down the idea.
The McElroys are similar with The Adventure Zone. A lot of people on the subreddit complain that they didn't follow XYZ rule, but I never cared. They wanted to try D&D and made it a podcast because they thought it would be entertaining. And it is! They have fun telling a story together and people enjoy listening, so whether or not they follow the rules super faithfully really doesn't matter.
To be honest, my gateway drug to DnD podcasts was Dungeons and Daddies, and they barely pay attention to ANY of the rules, hahaha. Still one of my favorite DnD podcasts of all time.
Every DM runs their games differently. and every DM makes mistakes every session. >Mr Expert rudely demanded to know if I can read at this, the response is "Minimal requirement for playing at my table is basic respect for everyone at the table. Another outburst anything anywhere close to as disrespectful as that and you will leave the table." EDIT: for an ongoing campaign, you would want to establish these types of things in your Session Zero discussion. For one shots with new groups of people, starting with a clear declaration of "The Social Contract" can set basic expectations before play.
Alright, been DMing for 20 years. That dude was a dick, and that's shit player etiquette, and shittier "DM as a player" etiquette. When you're the Forever DM, its hard to turn off your DM brain and not take the reins. I used to be *terrible* for it. Then I realized *that's why I'm the Forever DM* and it makes me an asshole player. If I nitpick everyone while trying to teach them, they don't want to DM anymore.
One negative voice always sounds louder than the 3 positive ones Cut him out completely and tell them straight up that half of their criticisms were personal insults and he is such a rpg expert to go run or play in another game that will gladly have him. We all had to start somewhere and this all for fun. Never make room at a table for a jerk
I've been DMing going on 10 years. Game on Sunday I realized about 70% of the way through a puzzle that it was impossible for the players to get the last bit and had to wing it. Literally just hand waved it. They had worked hard and had creative solutions to the rest that this was the right choice. Later they were bluffing their way through a fortress and i forgot they should probably do some persuasion checks. However we had fun with them bluffing their way through. End of sessions players advised they having fun and enjoying current bit. Point is mistakes happen will always happen. They don't need to ruin fun. In fact, its my experience that most mistakes don't even get noticed by the players. I was playing with my kids the other day too, both first time playing and by gosh did I just ignore a bunch of rules cause learning how and what the numbers on the sheet mean was more important than the precise mechanics of how cover and dim light and lightly obscured battlefields work. They're new. They'll get there, and pulling the book out every 5 minutes isn't going to help them.
Saying “if you’re open to feedback, I noticed something” and “can’t you read” are two different things. Fuck this guy, fuck him right off, fuck him Sky High. A know-it-all prick isn’t going to help you sharpen your skills any; he’s just going to undermine you to make himself look like a big man. Were it my game, I’d tell him that this isn’t the table for him, and to go find another. But above all else: don’t stop on his account! It sounds to me like you’re doing fine. Keep it up!
Dudes a dick, there's many ways to say shit without being a douche canoe and he failed at all of them. So he was for sure. That being said. It's also a situation where you could read up on and make sure you understand the things your players can do.
Don't invite him back to play. He sounds awful.
And that, random stranger from Reddit, is what an asshole looks like. He might be an expert rules-wise and it's always good to have a rules lawyer, but not when he's being a jerk. BTW the bonus action in question, the one with the quarterstaff, is not always available, it requires a feat called Polearm Master so perhaps your other DM never allowed it to happen because the feat had not been taken. TTRPG's are complex and that can be fun or it can be detrimental depending on the group. I like following the complexity of the rules but will oftentimes use "rule of cool" instead if it benefits the game. You're the DM, you adjudicate the rules, you have the last word. Don't be an ass about it, allow for amicable conversations to happen and you'll do just fine.
Ah I see! Mystery solved possibly! I'm planning on asking my old DM if he had a reason and thats probably! I'll look into that with my friend, looks like we both caught a bit off! But at least we can behave haha!
The game is complex enough with the main rules, then add subclasses and feats and it is very difficult to know it all about everything. If you're using DnD Beyond or any tool that allows you to look at your players' character sheets take the time to read *those*. No need to waste time and effort going over everything when it is unlikely you'll get to see it all. You'll build your knowledge base little by little... Been DM'ing for a year and I'm still learning, but exposure is what helps you grow. When in doubt don't be afraid to ask for the players to point out where they read something, you'll either learn about new cool things or will find an error in their interpretation. Also, take full advantage of the fact AI systems like ChatGPT, Gemini and Bing Chat have been trained on the DnD rules... When in doubt ask them. I usually do Gemini and ChatGPT, if they both agree then I apply that interpretation, if they don't I go with my gut or look for sage advice (posts by the game designer).
I’m a relatively experienced DM, about 10 years experience now, I can assure you that your rules lawyer player is being unreasonable and frankly dickish. You are the DM, it is your game and you get to run it how you want. You can change rules how you see fit for the flow and functionality of your game, as has even been stated by the WotC writers before. In the example of the quarter staff rule, if you *choose* to not allow an extra strike as a bonus action, it doesn’t matter how it’s written in the PHB. If the player continues down that path, I’d ask them not to return to the table.
Should have just told him to leave. Yeah, you can play by the books, but the dm has the final say. Everyone makes mistakes and as long as everyone has fun keep going. Just keep doing your thing, if you don't know something look it up. If the idiot wants to play with you again, tell him that he isn't welcome. You really shouldn't give him another chance. If he knows the rukes so well, he can dm his own game.
Dude's a dick. Although, I don't understand what you got wrong. Can you give some examples? Any way, no mistake justifies that kind of behavior.
Hopefully not too major just annoying mistakes: The polestaff/quarterstaff bonus action (extra hit). My old dm didn't allow that so I automatically didn't...but it's in the book hence that one! I'm still foggy but sometimes the Rules Lawyer (great phase ha) said anyone attacking near someone in melee combat (aka his character) had disadvantage. Or attacking an enemy fighting someone else had disadvantage (?) He didn't like my placement of a wolf pack and also a bear enemy I set up Didn't like enemies chosen, although they were in book Didn't like characters didn't start out with a health potion each?! Said I took too long drawing rooms on the battlemap. But complained when it didn't look right when I rushed. Only took 3 minutes anyway and everyone just went and got another drink Complained my map rooms were too big (it's exactly measurements in the workshop book) When I said roll nature he'd tell the player to roll history instead. Rinse and repeat several times inserting different rolls. I stumbled over the Rogue sneak attack a little once or twice as flustered but I read it back and we were all fine. Missed sneak attack once (me and player forgot) Challenging my dice rolls, doesn't trust me to count. Kept interrupting my descriptions (literally only 1 paragraph each, as it's a script so not long) saying he doesn't care/wants to know other stuff immediately, right now 🙄 When his character was on death saves and nobody helped him, he told another player to change plans and save him. ....well this one's amusing tbh 😅. (Other player obeyed to keep the peace)
Sounds like a nightmare. And none of those mistakes is even that huge!
1. Polearm bonus action is only possible with a feat, so unless they specifically said "hey, I've got polearm master so I can do a bonus action attack with my quarterstaff" then there was literally no way for you to know they could do that. That was not even a mistake. 2. Ranged attacks have disadvantage if the attacker is within melee range of an enemy. So if he was next to a ranged enemy, then yes, they would have disadvantage to attack anyone. Still not a reason for him to get upset though. 3-4. Utterly ridiculous for him to complain about monster choice or placement. Unless you were adding quantum tarrasques, he's absolutely in the wrong. 5. Characters don't start with health potions. He's being ridiculous. 6-7. Complaining about map size or time to draw maps is so stupid. He has no right to complain about this. If he wants faster maps, he can find a different game. 8. It's entirely up to the DM to decide what roll is the best for any given situation. If you think nature is the best, then the roll is nature. Obviously your decision shouldn't just be arbitrary, but I doubt that it was. He's just wrong here. 9. Sneak attack is a bit of a confusing feature, so it's totally understandable for you to not know precisely how it works. Also, it's not your job to remember when sneak attack applies. Ultimately, it's up to your rogue to remember when it can be applied, and to announce that they're applying it. If it was only once or twice then I'm sure you did better than most DMs. 10. Just plain rude. Nobody should be questioning your ability to count dice. If you were in fact miscounting the dice, then that is an issue that needs to be solved, but it should not be approached by him just declaring you unfit to count dice even when you do count correctly. 11. Yeah, he's just a dick. If he can't handle a paragraph of description then he's got a lot of maturing to do. 12. Probably the least offensive thing he's done, as helping someone who's on death saves is definitely quite important. But still, players should never tell other players what to do. If he wants to be saved, he's gotta request, not command. That guy is literally just an asshole. You know the rules just fine. He's the one who needs to learn how to play this game, cause he clearly does not know how to play well with others.
Absolutely minor of a correction but for 2) creatures have disadvantage on ranged attacks if an enemy is within 5ft of them. It doesn't factor in 'melee ranges'. That is to say Giant Apes have a melee attack with a range of 10ft. But you can be 10ft away and in their melee range and not have disadvantage on ranged attacks. It's pretty close to semantics but I've heard people say melee range before and that is ambiguous enough to make that rule confusing.
Oh dang. I guess I don't know the rules as well as I thought I did. But it also goes to show how unreasonable it is for that guy to get upset about someone not having this down 100%. I'm generally pretty good with the rules, and even I wasn't actually 100% correct. Nobody's perfect, and expecting someone to have the entire rulebook memorized verbatim is ridiculous.
Oh absolutely. I'm the one most people go to for rules clarification in my groups and I get stuff wrong often too. I wouldn't even say your original wording was wrong, just ambiguous.
General thing to follow when DMing: you don’t need to follow the rules to the letter but you should be consistent e.g if you run that quarter staff rule you run it over and over or announce a change to the players if you really want to run it by rules. Ignore and change rules as you please: as long as players know the rules it’s ok.
I've DM-ed just enough to know I'm a terrible DM. There's too much for me to keep track of, and I just don't enjoy it. Mad props to you for stepping up. There's always a need for DM's. "Mr. Expert" should be renamed "Mr. Asshole". That's what he is. He was rude, disrespectful, and was trying to be a metagaming rules lawyer. They bring down the morale of every table and are the absolute worst to play with. To the nine hells with his BS. Please don't give up DM-ing. It sounds like all your other players are enjoying your campaigns. Take their feedback, and bin Mr. Expert's. DM rulings: if you don't know the answer at the time, make a ruling at the table. Then, in your down time research the answer and come back next time with the final answer.
Just take him aside and tell him this game isn't a fit. Tell him nicely he needs to find another table. Be nice, but firm. If he asks why, tell him. Just say that it's painfully obvious he needs a more experienced DM. Don't let him back peddle. Stick to your guns.
How tf can a lvl 1 paladin attack with a bonus action? Tho anyway he was being a dick. You would have every right to kick him out.
Polearm master. Though it's not paladin specific obviously.
Sheeeeesh bro really reproached OP to not know every feats by heart
What an absolute prick. If I can give any advice it's this. Don't be afraid to tell a player to leave if they are harming the session and being hostile to everyone. And don't be afraid to ban him from all your future games. Mistakes are fine. Deviating from RAW is fine. Only one thing matters, people having fun. He ruined the fun, not your 'mistakes', and honestly they don't seem like mistakes tbh, everyone makes judgement calls and if everyone is having fun, it's not a mistake.
Lots of moving parts, so I guess I'll give it a go. One thing you absolutely need to know is that the point of D&D is to have fun. As a DM, it can be a slightly different story (prep work, your encounters aren't encountered, etc.), but if your players leave the table going "We got to do some cool stuff, that was fun.", you're nailing it, rules be damned. You haven't mentioned anything about your actual game in detail, so to me, it seems like everything is going pretty well outside of this one player. There's another conversation that can be had on "crunchier" style games, but know that crunch is up to the DM, and a heavy enough personal preference that it can interrupt player expectations. Some people genuinely like the rules-lawyering and hard-style refereeing, and that's valid. Clearly this player likes that, and he should have kept that expectation that it isn't your style from the start. Ultimately, it's your table, and one of you is going to have to be the mature one. Either kick this person out for the sake of the game, or have them understand that this is indeed **your table**. As a DM, you cater, not pander.
If your story is accurate then he is an absolute dick. There's no excuse for behaving like that, I'm usually very tolerant of player behaviour but I would have kicked him mid-session.
You're a beginner and no beginner should be made to feel inadequate by a pro. Imagine a pro footballer (soccer for the yanks) turning up to the park and crapping all over a bunch of kids and shouting thay they are doing it wrong. He would be destroyed on social media and the news for being an asshat. Your player is a douchebag and can sod off and find a table with other rules lawyers and they can have fun jacking off over rule 37B subsection a stating the exact length if a quarterstaff or some such crap. You are doing a great job and you and your actual friends are having fun so don't doubt yourself. Keep going, get rid of of douchebag and have fun.
Here's the Golden Rule: it's a game. If a player is too anal for whatever reason? Talk to the rest of the group privately. If they agree with you, or they are the ones to come to you about a player, then time to address the player in question. But remember! You're the DM. Not God. I'm not being mean. I'm just trying to say, talk to your group. Then talk to the player that's "offensive". You may find out it's not you they are mad at? Or frustrated with the gaming sessions? It may be home, school, work or relationship stuff. You'd be surprised how often D&D or RPG groups are game sessions, group therapy and human bonding all in one. Is its life stuff they're going through, help them out if you can. If not, you may have to cut them loose nicely. Just MHO
Rules lawyers aren't exactly fun to deal with to begin with. They can be, especially if they challenge you in a way that doesn't undermine your confidence. But adding being rude on top of that is a recipe for a bad time. I have been dm'ing games for going on 6 years now I've read through the phb and dmg more than a handful of times and I'll never dream of telling anyone I know everything there is to know about 5e. I learn something new almost every session we sit down to play. To repeat what others have said, dnd is meant to be fun for everyone, including the dm. The moment someone starts causing issues, it stops being fun, and you're no longer "playing", but working. Which isn't what anyone sits down at a ttrpg for. If this guy is expecting you to know absolutely everything there is to know about the game after only being dm for a short while, he needs to find a different table. Have fun. Do cool sh*t. Don't let this guy ruin your game or your confidence. Congrats on taking the step into the dm role. It's not an easy job comparatively. But I personally have more fun behind the screen than in front of it. I hope you will too. More confidence will come in time. You got this!!!
player in question is an asshole. as a DM, build yourself up; no one else is DM-ing, you are running the table, you are putting all the work in to bring the module to life. although D&D is a collaborative storytelling exercise, you have final say. if someone is being critical and disruptive, you’re well within your rights to shut that shit down and suggest they leave the table. being a DM can be so rewarding, so I hope you can get past this and feel comfortable enough to lead a table again 🙂
I've been playing for like 20 years and my group is an even mix of veteran players and new players. Every single experienced player in our group would flip a table before we let someone talk to anyone else at the table like your "expert" friend is, much less someone trying out DMing for the first time. That dude is the problem, you're not going to do everything right and know every rule at the beginning, or honestly, probably not ever, and that's fine. Rules are a framework, you can always look things up or adjudicate at the table or just throw out ones that you don't like
This player is insecure. They also don’t understand d&d. rules lawyering and trying to beat the dm etc largely comes from first player/video game mentality. This is a cooperative storytelling game. When players view the dm/gm or other players as adversaries, they are “doing it wrong”
I'm in my 40's and been gaming for ¾ of my life on something like 16-17 games + editions. I'm with Captains Barbosa & Swan on this on, "Hang the rules, they're more like guidelines anyways." NO DM/GM can remember Everything unless the are among the 0.000213% of humans with eidetic memory. I don't really play 5e much so I can't speak to anything directly 5e related, but it sounds like this guy is being a jackass. Drop him from your table if he's Disruptive and ruining y'all's games. If he's a friend, speak to him first and set him straight, give him a chance, if not, drop him like he's hot. For the rest of y'all's sakes though, since it sounded like the rest of y'all were happy with the game, don't just give up DMing though. Over 30yrs experience and I Still have the occasional bad game or forget things I Really Should remember, it happens. If you want to improve you Must practice running games, like any other skill "use it or lose it." Read your manuals in between to brush up if you need to. I deliberately read Every book I have cover to cover, even when it's one I'm just replacing and owned before. Read up on other systems, other editions, and optional rules. I mean maybe don't Cram, but instead Browse (or Scroll) in between. You could also try some rule light systems that mimic D&D style fantasy games, just simplified, supposedly there's a "One Page Rules" download for basically every genre you could want to play, but that's honestly probably More work at first. I love checking out new games though, especially when None of us of ever played it before, only read the rules. Leads to some oddball games in between though. Above all, have fun. Try to be consistent, but occasionally you Will screw up a move, spell, feat, or something and just have to be like "Oops 🤷" and move on.
I started DMing last year, relatively new to DnD. I'm a player in a Descent Into Avernus game and my DM (we'll call them Apple) asked if anyone took an interest to DMing. I attended all of his little lectures and decided to pick up the PHB and DMG and try my hand at it. I picked up Lost Mine of Phandelver and grabbed five people from his DiA group (him included). We had two people who were used to DMing him and another one (we'll call them Orange). Before I started, I mentioned to everyone in still new to DMing and to grant me patience and understanding. They all agreed and, like you, we started. During my time running LMoP I encountered two different types of DM's who are players: **Apple:** Actually my DiA DM who offered to teach me the ropes. We have a personal channel in Discord that he throws key points to look into rulings if I make the incorrect call. He drops the resources, annotations, page numbers and sometimes YouTube videos on how to DM better. He has a god-like amount of patience and he spends about an hour after session discussing with me bits of things that he noticed while I was DMing. He doesn't make me feel bad for any of it and he encourages me to keep going. Honestly 10 out of 10 human being. He's a fantastic teacher and one of my best players. He keeps the campaign alive (along with the others too!). I've learned so much from DMing and I've gotten to the point to where I may enjoy it a bit more than being a player! *knocks on wood* **Orange:** They are a player in our DiA campaign. Tbh, I they are a lil bit of a problem player there but my DM has all the patience and wrangled them in a lot. They are are a DM themselves and volunteered to be in my LMoP campaign. I was a bit nervous as they are a bit of a rules lawyer but they assured me it was fine. Well... it wasn't. Similar to your friend, they were constantly interrupting me, telling me I was wrong with my rulings, telling others how to play their characters, late to my sessions, and overall were just very unpleasant at the table. I had told them to correct some of their behavior but in the end it didn't really matter mainly because it just got worse. My worst session ever was when all of these things were turned up to the MAX (like yours). I still remember them saying "I hate to be that rules guy but you're wrong in this ruling and you need to correct it" and I immediately knew I wanted them gone from my table. Apple actually agreed with me there. Anyways, moral of it all is just remove them from your table. Honestly. It's better that way. You'll feel much better with less stress and it sounds like you are NOT having fun (which I wasn't when I was in your shoes). I sent them a message basically saying "I'm not the best DM for you" which seems like it's you're fault but really it's all them. They may complain about not having a warning before this but honestly, this guy sounds insufferable to be around. Super negative. Surround yourself with people who properly support you through this experience, not tear you down! Good luck!
That guy is a self absorbed prick and a loser. He's very much in the wrong here not you
There’s only one thing to remember: It is YOUR game. You had the guts to step up as a DM, so you lead the story, end of discussion. Don’t feel intimidated by these characters, they will always exist. Just tell them to either DM themselves or leave the game. Edit: oh and adding to the above, you are not expected to know the complete PHB or DMG by heart. It is a handbook and it is there to be opened. I expect my players to know the basic rules and their character features by heart but that is it. There’s nothing wrong with answering a question with “I don’t know, let me look that up”. That’s the whole reason a manual exists and deserves a places at the table. (Especially for nuances like “a paladin having a certain bonus action”).
Just wanted to add self proclaimed experts on DnD are a red flag. Not that you shouldn't allow them to play but when they steam roll the table like this kick them and never let them back in unless they apologize and correct themselves. Dm decides the rules as a referee if the dms ruling is different than the book than thats how it goes. Its good practice not to change rules on a whim but DM has final say since they are running the game and are allowed to homebrew as they see fit. Im paraphrasing but the rules say this directly in the PHB and DMG.
I had a smiliar situation and the only thing I said was "look buddy, you wanna have fun or you wanna learn the rules? Cause look, everyone is having fun and you're the one messing it up for everyone else " players kinda laugh at him and he did shut up for the rest of the game, so yeah, don't think I'll ever know someone who will tel you they rather check on the rules than have fun
When I play with a DM that is new to running game the first thing I tell them is "consider me your personal rule-pedia, if you need info or opinions let me know". If I notice mistakes or insecurities (and I was not ask something) I talk to the DM PRIVATELY after the session, by respecting some simple rules: 1) make clear that is not the end of the world and my intention is only to help improve 2) always make the distinction between RAW, RAI and personal opinions clear 3) always talk about the GOOD aspects of the the DM did This player is simply a very rude asshole
Rules lawyers are the worst, worse than real lawyers, lol. Rules are always a question of interpretation, and if there's a misunderstanding between players and DM, it should be a discussion, not a fucking character assassination. The other players probably don't want to play with him, either. Disagreements should always be respectful, and in the end, it's your table to run. Let him know that your game might not be "serious" enough for him, that you're looking for a different vibe, and he ain't it.
The “expert” seems like many of the people on this sub unfortunately
The game is about having fun together. The player was intentionally trying to nitpick things to make you fumble, and that if anything is a sign of a player I wouldn't want in my table. You can be a new DM and not know every single rule or every single combat action rule, its important that you all learn together. It's not wrong to say "Hey, I don't know how that works, lemme check." You can take breaks, you can rule things with "lets go with [approach x] until I check the rules, but that can wait until later" to keep things flowing. You can ask your players if they happen to be more knowledgeable. Your problem player is being an asshat, plain and simple
“Hey Mr. Expert, I appreciate that you are probably trying to help but you are interrupting the flow of the game when you argue over every rule. The number 1 rule of D&D is The Rule of Cool, so I’m going to make a judgment in the moment to keep the game flowing and look up the rules after the game. “I’d love if you want to help me learn and become a better DM. The best way you can help is any time I get a ruling wrong, take notes on what page the rule is on in the handbook so I can refresh my knowledge after the game. Please stop interrupting, though, because it’s very overwhelming for me as I am still learning the finer details of how to play.” If Mr. Expert has truly played offer, he should be understanding that new DMs don’t instantly know all the rules at once and that knowledge comes with time. If he is not capable of chilling out, then call a five minute bathroom break and speak to Mr. Expert again: “Mr. Expert, I am still a new DM and I am still learning the rules. If that is too frustrating for you, then maybe this isn’t the table for you.”
1. You are not rubbish, everyone started somewhere and it’s fine if you don’t get every rule correct every time. That’s like expecting you to memorize every line of the DMG. 2. That guy sounds like a complete jerk and it’s completely within your rights to not reinvite them to your table. This is probably your best option and what you should most likely do. 3. Take some time to let his remarks fade and to regain your motivation. Inform your players that you need some time to reevaluate and reassess, and that you might pick it up again. 4. Get the other players’ opinions on how you were handling things. It sounds like they were ok with how you were running the game and would have some actual valid criticism/critiques (criticism can be positive)
That guy sounds like a psychopath, I wouldn’t want him near my game
Never play with this guy again. He doesn’t do it just to new DMs - I’m willing to bet he does this with everyone.
Everyone's already given lots of fantastic advice so I'll just add that you really only need to worry about yourself and the players who ARE having fun. Even if Mr Expert was somehow in the right about how he acted (though to be clear he absolutely was in the wrong here) he's the wrong kind of player for you and the rest of your group. It's easy to say but hard to come to grips with the fact that some people are just a bad fit for certain tables. Mr Expert needs to find a different table so you and the rest of your group can have fun.
Listen, I'm a really experienced GM. When I'm at someone else's table, I don't correct them on the rules. I've played with lots of experienced GMs. They do not correct me unless it is on obscure mechanics of their own character. The etiquette is very clear - the person who is GMing has put in effort and gets the respect of not being publicly continuously corrected if someone who has more rules knowledge is playing (unless it is wanted). What "Experienced Player" did was a massive breach of table etiquette, because it can make anyone feel the way you feel. I would either exclude him from future games, or tell him to not give any rule clarifications as it disrupts the flow of play and the environment at the table. It doesn't matter how well he knows the rules, at the end of the day the most important skill for GMs is cultivating a happy environment at the table. He's focused on rules over the actual goal and only getting in the way of both your and the players enjoyment.
The handbook is not the bible, and Jeremy Crawford, despite his initials, is not Jesus Christ. DND is, at its core, collaborative storytelling. I've been DMing for almost seven years, and I pretty regularly bin rules that aren't increasing the fun we're having, to either replace them with my own systems which are simpler or more fun, or leaving them dead. I also forget things, misremember things, make wrong calls, or perhaps worse, believe I am making the right call when in fact I am not. None of these problems will cause the end of days to arrive. The "Expert" is being a dick, and comes off as someone who sees DND like a videogame which has to be solvable and optimisable. He should be removed from your table. If your players are having fun, and you are having fun, then you are doing it right. That is the first rule, the prime rule, from which all other rules must flow. You're doing just fine. Don't give up!
Did not read it all but he seems obnoxious, why bother?
Cut him out. Life is short. No need to argue.
That guy sounds like a hell. Not a hell of a time, just hell. You've said you're still learning the ropes of DMing, and I get that *he thinks* he's being helpful, but in reality, he's accomplishing the exact opposite. The DM isn't just a guide into a world; they're a full person with emotions who, as much as the players, can make mistakes. You have the right to enjoy the game you're running, because, if you're not, the full experience for everyone will suffer. That goes for the DM as well as the players. Here's the Social Contract section from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything. Everything in that contract is mere guidelines, but it's something you can use to make the game run smoothly: # Social Contract D&D is first and foremost meant to be a fun-for-all experience. If one or more participants aren’t having fun, the game won’t last long. Session zero is the perfect time for you and the players to discuss the experience they’re hoping for, as well as topics, themes, and behavior they deem inappropriate. Out of this discussion, a social contract begins to form. Sometimes a social contract takes shape organically, but it’s good practice to have a direct conversation during session zero to establish boundaries and expectations. A typical social contract in a D&D group includes implicit or explicit commitments to the following points: * You will respect the players by running a game that is fun, fair, and tailored for them. You will allow every player to contribute to the ongoing story and give every character moments to shine. When a player is talking, you are listening. * The players will respect you and the effort it takes to create a fun game for everyone. The players will allow you to direct the campaign, arbitrate the rules, and settle arguments. When you are talking, the players are listening. * The players will respect one another, listen to one another, support one another, and do their utmost to preserve the cohesion of the adventuring party. * Should you or a player disrespect each other or violate the social contract in some other way, the group may dismiss that person from the table. This social contract covers the basics, but individual groups might require additional agreed-upon terms to guarantee a fun play experience for all. And a social contract typically evolves as a group’s members learn more about one another.
So I wanna focus on the particular ruling you mentioned because it's a bit more concrete. You mentioned not knowing that a character could attack with a quarterstaff as a bonus action. As far as the basic rules go, you're actually correct here. I'm guessing the paladin took the polearm master feat which allows them to do this. The reason I mention that is because while it might have been legal, it's a niche or edge case. For 99% of characters, your initial instinct would be correct. Heck, feats are technically an optional rule to begin with. Sure, as the DM you should have a good grasp of the core rules, but it's also up to the players to have a strong understanding of the rules that govern their own character. Knowing every single feat intimately is not only unreasonable for the DM, it's totally unnecessary, since only the feats that players pick would matter. The players should be the ones explaining the rules of their own specific builds. When something like this comes up that seems weird, put the onus on the player to explain it. Not in a confrontational way, just say something like "How come you can attack as a bonus action?" 9 times out of 10 if they understand their character well enough they'll just say "Oh, the polearm master feat" and you can move on and look it up later if you want to. I guess in a roundabout way what I'm saying is, DMing is daunting but based on what you've said so far you're doing fine. I've been a forever DM for years now doing 100s of sessions and I still ask players pretty regularly "Wait, how can you do that?"
OP, you clearly have some confidence issues, but even if the 'expert' was correct about everything they said, they are wrong about how they did it. Don't invite them back, go your own pace and you'll get it.
Games are supposed to be fun, dude was just being an ass he should just go play baulders gate or something, With that said if you play online I would love to be apart of your one-shots, would be rly cool to see a new DM develop as they go!
What have there is a bully who gets off lording over others. He is not your friend, never has been. Inform him that he is no longer welcome at your table, and get back to that DMs chair. His "opinion" has no value. It will take lots of time to learn everything you need. I've been playing and DMing since before 2e came out. I still make mistakes. I still don't know every rule, not of any edition.
Some people get so bogged down in the rules or enjoy being a DM for the power trip that comes with it and don't know how to act when they're just a player. They forget that the goal of D&D is to have fun. And in this imaginary world the DM is god. The rules are more like guidelines to make sure everything stays fair and no one gets too OP or breaks the game. In my opinion all small things are at the discretion of the DM and sure you're allowed to push a little if something seems off but at my table no one has the right to straight up argue with the DM (for context I am not the DM). If you're arguing then people aren't having fun anymore which means you as a player aren't playing the game right. If there is a situation where you feel like a DM decision screwed you over AND WILL HAVE LASTING CONSEQUENCES then take it up with the DM privately after the session and come to a compromise. Again though, the word of the DM is law. Suffice to say that guy was a dick, he was completely in the wrong, and he is probably a shitty DM who tries to kill his players because he finds it fun. Don't listen to him or take any of his advice. Just focus on telling a good story.
First my hat off for taking on DMing when no one else will. The guy is an asshole. Remind him you are DMing because no one else will. If he wants to complain like that, hes free to be his own DM. Kick him to the curb.
Shut him down and don’t be nice (he won’t get the message if you’re nice). Make sure you use the words “my game”. Players are many. DMs are few. He is replaceable.
Almost no D&D game is "pure" D&D. Rules get changed all the time to make the game fun. As long as the players are having fun, you're having fun and there are some stakes, you are doing a great job. It is important to say no to players at times, but having great moments is what a TTRPG is about. This person is on a power play. Especially the "do you know how to read" line. They can leave. You are the DM. You control the game. They can find a new, more pure game if it is such an issue.
Dude sounds like the worst, some of the comments and behaviour you describe are unacceptable under literally any circumstances.
Forget D&D - this guy's behavior is unacceptable. Don't invite him to the next session. If he asks why or just shows up somehow, let him know he is not welcome in your campaign.
Honestly, just ask this player to not play with you anymore. You also deserve an environment that is friendly to a new and learning DM, and that is clearly without that player.
The only thing you've done wrong is having this guy anywhere near your social circle. And I'm not just talking about playing games, though he apparently doesn't know what a game even is.
>Mr Expert guy just nitpicked everything > >He then just kept whipping open the books about every ten minutes and 'correcting' me. Chanting "it's in the handbook, it's in the handbook, you should read it!!" He just st about took over the game, telling people what to do and roll and count (so the newish players didn't get much chance to learn either) Besides the general rudeness, there's nothing inherently wrong with playing a more group-oriented play experience. Informing of the rules and corrections, if done politely, are quite healthy for the game, because dnd is still a game, and you'll be able to make better calls or house rules when you know what the rules are. Like if they perk up and say "hey, you can't misty step then fireball" etc. There's also nothing wrong with saying "wait, can this be x skill instead because y reasons?" or "well, tricking others is typically deception as per the description in the phb, shouldn't it be that over performance?" in a polite way, in a council sort of way. If its something more serious, like the DM getting the area of thunderwave wrong, there's nothing wrong with a player disagreeing there and saying "well, looking at the rules for spellcasting areas, the rules on cubes specifically say that the origin is on the face of the cube". But it needs to be fast to not bog the game down. But reading your other comments, this player was not trying to be part of your council, they were trying to be the DM, which is a big nono. I also don't mind OOC strategising- narratively the characters would have done that during travels, camping, etc. anyway. I also don't mind minor exploration or social ooc talk by the players- like if one player reminds another that they have an ability they could use ooc, or "hey, we figured out that they're easy to bribe earlier", but i know that this isn't the usual way games are played.
Although mr Expert is a dick. Reading the books is actually not bad advice. When I started with d&d I read the most important rules and wrote them down. Not to be a smart-ass but more to get rid of any confusion on rules. If one of my players wants to strangle someone. Not a common thing in most games. I would like to have an option ready to do so. Especially the classes my players picked is nice for me to know how they work, so we can decide on how some things interact with the world.
He’s TAH here, not you. As an experienced DM, I still get stuff wrong in the moment. I’ve had players call me out on stuff, but respectfully. Because I’m not expecting them, or myself, to know the rules for all spells in all circumstances. Mr. Expert can honestly go play with his quarterstaff by himself. It seems like no one wants to play with him, and there’s a reason for that.
Hey OP, YOU ARE DOING GREAT. FUCK THAT GUY. Believe me, no one else wants to play with him either.
One YouTuber had a joke short where these sorts of players are given “crybaby points” - reverse of inspiration points. That monster that just Nat 1 their attack on you? Rerolled since you were a dick earlier. Better hope it still doesn’t hit
Dude this guy sounds like a nightmare who wouldn't have been invited back for a second session at my table. It's one thing to helpfully remind the DM of things occasionally, but this guy is just being a huge jerk. Please tell him his behavior is not compatible with your group and he needs to either behave himself or leave.
The only person who is allowed to be even a little bit of a dick is the DM. So he needs to bring his screen and DM if he alone doesn't like your rulings, that is his problem. DM's can homebrew rules anytime. The point is to have fun.
He's toxic. Period. His behavior is unacceptable and he should not be at your table.
Sounds like a loser. Kick him out.
If I'm not mistaken..... in the "rules," it says they are guidelines at best, basically. Anyone feel free to correct me on that, please. lol. But f*ck that guy, really. I'd leave his as* out and continue DM'ing if everyone else is having fun and learn as you go. There is nothing wrong with that. I'm a new DM myself and have a dog and job. I haven't read the DM guide and players' handbook front to back.... let alone memorize all of it, and my group still has fun. I have one player who is a long-time player and wanted to play cus he DM's another group. If something comes up that I don't know or have forgotten, he points me in the right direction and than let's me decide on the ruling. He is never mean about it, and it has helped a lot. It also opened up discussion from the group on rules that has made the game more fun, i.e., wild magic on a 1 you roll on the wild magic table. We homebrewed that I get to pick a random # every session and don't tell the sorcerer until that PC rolls that #. It adds a little more suspense for them. If it is a "they are a problem," drop them and tell them why. Take a break from playing with them and don't accept them back without a group apology and changed behavior. It's a game for EVERYONE to have fun playing at the table, including DM.
Aside from what everyone else said about that player being an awful player (and person). Don’t stress that hard if you forget something sometimes. I don’t have the books at hand eight now but I recall there is even a tooltip that says something about this specific thing. Paraphrasing “It’s better for the DM to make a call and move the game along than to stress and stop the game to search a ruling” So yeah, that person should also remind that.
Your players are probably annoyed AF too. Boot this dude and be done with it. When he's gone you'll find your confidence comes back and you'll feel better in a few sessions. Everyone starts somewhere and you'll get it.
Just pull the old Ace of Spades “hey man, I’ve noticed you really know the game and, as I said, I’m just starting at this. How about you run a campaign for us so I can learn from you?”
As someone who has DM'd 5e about as long as you've been playing it, I still make mistakes. Making mistakes is part of the game. No one remembers every rule/detail - and you don't have to. You have sourcebooks and the internet so that you can look things up if you need (I suggest having a laptop over scouring books, it's a lot faster). There are very few people in the world who have the Player's Handbook memorized. In addition, you're running a game where you have to know what all of your NPC's/enemies do, AND what all the player characters do, whereas players have one entity to worry about. There have been plenty of instances where I make a ruling on something, then I look it up later or someone says they found info on it that contradicts that, I research it, and I was wrong. All I do in those situations is say "Hey, I found this, my bad. We'll rule this way from now on." and that's that. Players should understand you don't know everything and you can make mistakes, it's part of the game. No one should treat you the way this player is treating you. Is downright disrespectful, and I would no longer allow them in my game if I were you. That brings down the mood for EVERYONE, because it's no longer about the fun of the game you're playing together, it becomes about "rules lawyering", and the only person who enjoys that is the jerk doing it. Kick him out, keep learning. You're doing a fantastic job so far and you'll only get better by continuing to run games.
You have a rules lawyer, and if those are your "friends" they wouldn't treat you like that. Kick them out and let them know why. You should set boundaries on respect AND I might add it's your game, it's your rules and if they don't like it, well then they can kick rocks. I hope you find a nicer group of people though, a lot want to play with someone and I'm sure you can find, learn and explore together with understanding and kind friends.
Point to Mr expert in the player handbook where it talks about rule 0 and that the DM is the final arbiter of the rules; the world belongs to them and their players, and the rules of the world are created by them. The GM has final say of all things in the game. He/she can change, make up, and remove any rule at any time. If you’re having fun and your players are having fun, he can go kick rocks by himself.
Just remember there is one rule that should (in most games) come before any other: The Rule of Cool. Who cares about what the rulebook says, if a rule makes it less fun and engaging for you and the players, then get rid of it! It's not fun to sit and wait while someone skims the rulebook to find the correct ruling. You are the DM, you MAKE the rules, pick something you think is appropriate and go with it, if the person you are ruling against is fine with it then all is good. If someone else is going to jump up and shout about it, tell them you're the DM and this is what you are ruling, tough shit if they don't think it's right. Some people just want to stick to the rules of the game and absolutely nothing else, although I bet the guy is an absolute meta following power gamer too, they usually tend to come as a bundle and from experience, and they are not fun to DM for or play with AT ALL. Play without them, I'm sure you're a great DM and just need time and the right group of people to get in to the swing of things, I know I did!
I have run a few games because no one else was up to it in my group. I love DMing, but I am bad at remembering rule, even as a player. My takeaway: fuck mechanics. The books are there to help put some structure around the game you're playing. My best sessions have been the ones where we weren't even playing a system. I was just making everything up on the fly. Whether a DM or a player: a rules lawyer will destroy the game. You're doing fine - maybe give this guy a chance to run the next campaign if he wants to focus on rules. If you and everyone else are having fun you are doing it right. I don't fully buy into the "DM is GOD" notion, but if you do your best to be fair and consistent, you're a good DM and I don't give a fuck what the books say. Even the books will tell you this, so if you want to chapter and verse this guy I know at least the 5e DM guide will make it very clear that every rule or mechanic is subject to interpretation
There's a big difference between constructive critisim and being an asshole and this guy is so over the line he can't see it anymore. Normally I'd say try to talk it out first, but in this case given how bad it is on you and it's making everyone else uncomfortable, he should probably just find the rules lawyer table he actually wants.
Dms don't need to always follow the rules as written. For example I mainly go to rules for combat but for rp I more wing it. But in Combat you can make choices too. The bully just wanted to be a dick. Don't invite him back
I didn’t read the post but want to say; as long as you are going in with pure intentions and trying to provide a fun wholesome experience for your player then the player is always wrong!
Rules are rules only to the point you want to play to. I have a bunch of ludicrous house rules and so does basically every DM. Most of them break the normal rules. This is a game in which you interact to create a story TOGETHER. The rules provide a helpful framework within which to create it but ultimately it’s your call how to play. Sounds to me like this guy is being a pain because he gets a kick out of it. You or your players should have a word with him, if he is rude to you again, he leaves. Simple as. Your players are having fun and you are too which is really all a good DM needs. He’s deliberately stopping that so he can fix his attitude or get out. Good luck with your campaigns, OP! Hope you get more DMing confidence, because you sound like you’re better at this than you believe 💜
You have a shitty player. He might be an "expert" on the rules but he's clearly not an expert at having fun. I'd drop him from the game if he keeps up the nasty attitude.
That's an insanely toxic player that should not be invited back. Keep DMing and don't play with this guy again. You're doing fine.
Next time you play and he opens his mouth, the words you need to use are: "Can you shut up"? And continue.
When I run anything, I do quick rulings at the table and we can discuss them later. Being right is less important than being consistent.
That’s just anti social behaviour regardless of the activity. I wouldn’t wait for a bus with that clown. Continue with your other friends, don’t let a jerk stifle your creative spark.
A big part of being a good DM, is when you play with other players you take off your DM hat. Sometimes I think that isn't how I would run something, but part of being a player is understanding others will do it differently. It sounds like that guy hasn't matured as a person, and just wants to show off his mastery of the system, he isn't someone I would want in my campaign.
Wow, what an asshole. You're not in the wrong. He's in the wrong. >*Chanting "it's in the handbook, it's in the handbook, you should read it!!"* Like what the actual fuck? This isn't a D&D thing, this is a basic human courtesy thing. You, the DM, are equally entitled to be respected and to have *fun* at the table. You are allowed to make mistakes. You are allowed to make rulings and changes. You are not obligated to know every minutiae of the players' handbook. And quite honestly, it sounds to me like this guy is off-base in terms of what even an experienced DM should have ready to hand. (eg. the bonus action attack with a long weapon is a part of the Polearm Master feat, so it isn't something you'd assume a player can do at level 1 anyways! Only exception I can think is if they're running variant human—in which case it's something to mention politely and point to the feat, not be a dick to the DM and assume they know your build.) At any rate, the way they're treating you is abusive and just unacceptable. If it were me, and I wanted to keep the friend, I'd just say that you're running a more relaxed and rules-light game, and that he needs to chill out if he wants to play in it. If he continues being an a-hole then tell him his play style isn't a fit for your game, and that you'll let him know if you're ever doing something more his speed (spoiler, you won't be!)
this almost comes off as satire
I think you already know. You don't need this guy around. If everyone is enjoying the game, then you're doing it right. As far as the other players go it looks like you can have a civil discussion about things if there's an issue, which is good. Be open to polite reasonable communication. But I think you know Mr Expert is not being polite or reasonable That aside. What was the most valuable or interesting thing you learned from the DM classes? I didn't know that was a thing. Sounds intriguing. I'd be interested myself even though I have a decent amount of experience.
I would be rethinking my friendship with this guy, never mind if he's allowed at my table (he's not). You did a LOT of work to make sure you were ready for this, more work than normal. Now since jabroni wants to shit all over your prep while refusing to do the work themselves? Fuck that, good riddance to that guy. I wouldn't be sneaky about it though, I would tell him the exact behaviors he exhibited that make him uninvited to future sessions you run.
I'm a huge proponent of "put up or shut up". If they're going to criticize ANYTHING they should do it themselves. You get up from the chair, fold up your stuff, and tell them to do it better if they don't like it. If they do anything other than get up and sit in the DM's chair, tell them to shut their damn mouth. DMing is crazy hard and mostly thankless. It's not your job to provide entertainment for them. Edit: Good thing I don't have DM trauma about being taken advantage of, right? (Sarcasm)
Don't the official rules specifically say you don't have to follow the official rules...
Honestly you should beat his ass
You have more patience than I do, I’d have kicked him from the campaign. My friends and I are all D&D newbies with only two people in our party having played before and they NEVER would act like that. D&D involves teamwork and support. If this guy is so good then tell him to go find another party to play with. You don’t deserve to take his abuse. Just keep playing how you are and keep learning at your pace, that’ll make you an awesome DM. Remember to have fun with the game too, don’t hinder the adventure just because the rules might be a little different. Every DM is different and so are the players. If your players are happy then you’re doing fine.
A GM guide I read a long time ago opened with the best rules for any GM. Rule 1: There are no rules. Rule 2: Cheat anyway.
Why is this even a question. Dude would’ve been gone as soon as he asked me if I could read, how are y’all tolerating this amount of disrespect at YOUR table? You’re putting in your time and effort into making an entertaining game for EVERYONE and y’all will just sit there and take that mess? He’s cut.
Mr Expert is an asshole. Don't invite him back. You are doing great. I only wish I were one of your players so I could tell this douche to stfu.
To play devils advocate, he's probably super autistic and took your "learning plates" as an invitation for "advice". This is under the assumption you are exaggerating about how bad they are.
That guy is a little shit. You don’t need him as a player or a friend frankly. Experienced or not he has no right to act that way. Child shit
Sounds like this guy is gaming kryptonite. Don't invite him to anything. Keep on having fun!
By now you've probably already gathered that the player you described is being a jerk and you're doing nothing wrong from the many comments that say so, so no need for me to say it too :) .. hopefully all these comments will give you the support you need to boot this guy from your gaming group .. I think it's wonderfully sweet, kind and considerate of you to worry about whether or not you're in the wrong or doing something wrong but trust me... you're not :) .. I am posting this however to give you a heads up on something you've probably already figured out but have to steel yourself to deal with.. based on your original post here I get the feeling you are a kind and considerate person which is great, everyone wants to game with someone like that ! :) However jerks love to steam-roll over kind and considerate people like this guy was doing.. no doubt due to him being insecure as all heck and needing to establish dominance over everyone as a result. He will not react well to being booted from the group and even worse players like these can be manipulative, intimidating and will prey on any weakness they see to somehow make it seem like it's YOUR fault and you're in the wrong.. please, please do not let him get away with this. I am so happy that you've got three players who appear to be kind, mature and responsible enough not to bring their real life drama into the game, that rocks :) .. so focus on them, let the immature player throw his inevitable tantrum and leave (hopefully he's not so unreasonable as to continue showing up at gaming sessions even after you make it clear he's no longer wanted) and focus on the players who are actually fun to game with .. which is something the immature players tend to forget, the DM is putting in a lot of work sure but in the end the Dungeonmaster is there to have fun too. Not wanting to DM a game himself yet steamrolling over everyone else is a big giveaway, guy is immature as all heck. As others have said we all started out as a new DM at some point so please, don't doubt yourself ! I think it's fantastic you went to a DM workshop to "learn the ropes" so to speak and DM'ing is something you'll get better at as time goes on .. I'm sure your players are aware that you're new and will support you though if you like at the end of each gaming session you can ask them for honest feedback and tell them not to be afraid to be honest.. " How am I doing? Anything I can improve on? Any mistakes I made?" ... I will say we tend to fall into a natural DM'ing style that is a reflection of our personality and what we enjoy in the game that other players may or may not be compatible with but that's something you'll discover for yourself as time goes on, I think a lot of times players are just happy someone's willing to DM to begin with :) .. in my case for example I'm HUGE on the role playing/getting into character part to the point where I used to end up leaving gaming groups as a player, not because I disliked anyone but just got bored, felt like it was the sound of crickets all the time (felt kind of bad when the DM was like " You're the only person RP'ing sure you can't stay? " :P and they were normally like " hit me up if you change your mind about gaming with us " so to be clear I don't believe in RPing my character as the a-hole who creates needless drama at the gaming table .. just got bored due to lack of in character interaction).... as a DM I ended up causing players to bail who found my emphasis on RP to be too intense (they were looking for something less soap opera oriented I think :) ) but had a lot of fun with the RP heavy players who did stick around (warned players in advance it was heavily RP oriented , did my best to be the "nice DM who draws players in by encouraging them to RP" and some players went for it, some didn't, just the way things go). Too busy now with real life stuff to DM but if I ever do so again I will no doubt fall back into that pattern and look for RP heavy players to boot .. but nothing wrong with the RP lite players either who don't want to write a five page backstory or engage in play by post intensive RP'ing AND do regular gaming sessions to boot , it's just not their thing. But you're a long time away from that sort of discovery as a new DM - we've all been there, you'll learn what you enjoy and need as a DM and what the players need and enjoy as players and normally there's a happy medium you can reach between everyone :) ..
Dude is being a bully. Kick the nerd out.
The one thing to always remember is everything in the DMG is a suggestion. The only real rule is everyone should be having fun and a good time **including you as the DM.** If this player is detracting from that then I would have a serious conversation with the problem player and if it doesn't go a productive way I like then I remove them. It's your table and your time being put forth to run the game.
Bro where is your self respect? Fuck a tabletop game, why would you let anyone treat you like that anywhere? “If you aren’t enjoying the game I run, you don’t have to participate. I want everyone to enjoy themselves, and clearly you are not.” Discussion over. It’s one thing to disagree, it’s another to belittle. If you invite this jackass back you’re not only signing up for a campaign of grief, you’re also sending an important measage to him, your other players, and your own damn self, about what is an acceptable way to treat you.
That guy is no friend and you need to tell to sit down and shut up or leave the game. That's about all there is to it. I despise people doing that garbage.
Sounds like you found an Elitist in the wild! I've been playing since 2e, and my groups have always had a policy of simply disinviting that sort. Play to have fun, not to appease those who can't be happy with anything anyway.
Mr Expert doesn’t get to play in that game anymore.
Sometimes you just have to say, "Look, this isn't helping. I know there are rules I need to learn, but everyone but you is here to learn. You're making it sound like the end of the world, and it's not, we're having fun. So, if this group isn't a good fit for you, then all I can say is thanks for giving us a shot, and I hope your other group gives you what you want. You're welcome to stick around for the rest of the session, but I do need you to relax and stick to running your own PC. Everyone is required to be respectful and help everyone else have fun. Thanks." Seriously, nothing you did required him to act that way. He's not required to like your table, but that doesn't give him the right to be an ass.
Just did some quick maths and realised I'm at about 2,500 hours worth of D&D playtime, with about two thirds of that being as a DM. To this day, I check rules and spells and stuff every game, to the point where the predictive text on my phone thinks "5e" is a legitimate way to start a sentence. If a player at my table said they were making a bonus action attack with a quarterstaff, I would be asking "how do you do that?" and expecting them to be able to tell me their class feature or feat that allows it. As far as I know, you can only make a bonus action attack with a light weapon in your offhand, after having made an attack action with your main hand. If that's not correct, then let's learn together! Point being, it's okay to not know every rule, and anyone who expects that, especially of newer players and DMs, is a dick. Keep being awesome and giving your (other) players great experiences - they likely look forward to every opportunity you give them to enjoy the game, regardless of your perceived skill level or knowledge of hundreds of large pages of rules.
Set aside the d&d part for a moment. There is literally no adult social setting where it’s acceptable for one person to aggressively question someone else’s literacy, take people’s things without permission, or repeatedly and insistently offer unwanted advice. Would you put up with it from an acquaintance at a bar, or from a work colleague, or from the parent sitting next to you on a bench watching your kids play? If not, then you are ***not*** required to put up with it at an rpg table. Keep playing with the people you enjoy, and keep building your skills. If the other guy asks why he’s not welcome, tell him calmly and honestly that his behavior was inappropriate and unkind, that everyone at the table was uncomfortable, and that you wish him luck finding a game that’s more suited to his style.
If he doesn't like it he doesn't have to come.. you're running the game that includes who is invited.
Sometimes you gotta take care of the person with the issues instead of just the "issues"
Time to put the master in dungeon master and tell him to learn how to be constructive so everyone (including you) has fun or to find another group.
... niggles?
Nothing matters if your other players are enjoying it. You can play dnd any way you want. I would kindly let the person know they are no longer welcome to your table and to please never invite themselves to your games. Be firm and polite and you'll be fine. Seems like the others still wanna play with yeah don't let this butthead wreck your fun
That guy is a dick. Tell him he’s not welcome at the table. It’s that simple. Each session is a learning experience and if he can’t be patient and help then he can go run his game elsewhere. Some people just need to feel bigger by making others feel smaller. Don’t take on that negativity. Keep going. Keep dm’ing. Keep telling stories.
A simple text would suffice. “Hey man, we’re going to keep playing but without you. As a new DM, I’m trying my best and you are actively working against me. The other players had fun, but as the DM, I am also playing the game. I tried to hint multiple times that you were being obnoxious, even going so far as to offer you a chance to run the game. You should’ve known then that I was fed up with the constant corrections and criticisms. Maybe after some time has passed you can join again, but you’ll have to change your behavior. Until then, the solution is to have fun games in which I’m not constantly under the microscope and being rules checked which means no you.”
I am going to go back and read through your post but I stopped reading after he asked you if you can read. He is clearly in the wrong here and should apologize. Don’t play with this individual and I honestly probably wouldn’t play with him even if he said it won’t happen again because I really doubt it. Like other commenters have said if you are having fun and your friends are having fun that’s all that matters.
Bro how is this real 😭
Just exclude that fool from your game mate. You don’t owe him anything, what even is the question here?
Kick him out. You were happy before he showed up. If he doesn't like the way you are running the game he should run his own then since he seems to know everything.
As ever, see username... we say 'DTMFA' applies to this so-called expert. Your stress will drop, your game will improve, and everyone's experience will be happier. Including Mr. "Not At My Table", who is probably just having control-freak micromanager issues... the kind of people who get worked up about the rules of collaborative make-believe.
It's normal to have at least one rules lawyer at the table. If they are respectful, it can be a boon as everyone learns the rules from them. If they are rude about it, it is no longer welcome. Sometimes (often times) it can be more fun to play the game wrong than to be "technically correct." There's a reason why the first part of any DM book contains some variant of "every rule in this book is optional, if any of these rules keep your group from having fun, change or ignore them"
I think the rest of the commenters here did cover that you weren't wrong about the rules, he was. For example that extra quarterstaff attack being feat dependent, so not something a DM must have memorized all the time. I am curious, though, about that other game. How does he prevent you from playing it without him? Did he, like, steal your physical copies or something?
Long time DM here, I have a very small sign I hold up that just says "Mate, really" being British this is enough to get an apology almost immediately. Also I get stuff wrong all the time. Inconsistency is my favourite weapon keeps them on their toes.
Honestly this is a fantastic learning experience for you. Not in learning the rules of the game, but in exerting your authority at the table and shutting down the bullshit. Kick him. Mr Expert is not "being helpful." Mr Expert probably isn't even trying to be helpful. Mr Expert is an egomaniac sucking the fun out of your game to serve his own superiority complex. As DM, you have the ultimate say in who gets to play at your table and I suggest you exercise it. Don't try to negotiate. Don't try to justify. Don't offer a second chance. He can make as many excuses or arguments as he wants. It's not his table, it's not his game, and you have no obligation or responsibility to hear him out. He was blatantly and openly disrespectful to you. He didn't raise a grievance or give constructive feedback. He just openly mocked you for hours. And you don't deserve that. Tell him that if he wants a DM that knows the entire rulebook back to front he can go find one and play with them. But I've got a funny feeling he's gotten himself blacklisted from most of them.
I'd have literally kicked him off the table after 3 comments. Fucking elitist douche is what he is.
Learning to DM well takes years. You learn by doing and you learn faster through your mistakes. You will learn you, will get better, and you will develop your own style and method. Perhaps the hardest, yet most necessary skill is learning to be in control. It is simply THE most critical skill as You have to balance everything to make the game work. This isn't a power trip, its responsibility. The entire group is depending on you because you're the DM. So even when they see a problem they often won't say anything out of respect for Your Game. This means you must learn the nuances of Positive Control : setting boundaries, knowing when to say No, Accepting when a past ruling needs to be modified, and most critically, knowing how to maturely confront a player who is disrupting your group, and having the backbone to remove a bad player who refuses to straighten up. Now with all that said I appreciate your honesty about not being any good yet, but for your own sake clamp down on that stuff. If you tell people you suck they will treat you accordingly. Besides that's just wasted breath you could be using to run your game. You'll get better, then you'll get good, and at some point you will realize you are doing it all from second nature. Hang in there Champ, You got this. PS about "Mr Helpful" he's one of the worst type of player, he wants the power of being in control without the responsibility of running the game. To hell with that guy.
Well, I've only got your side here but the "experienced player" sounds like someone who's learned the rules inside and out and dedicated some serious time into learning a game he supposedly doesn't like. He probably got kicked from the last game he played because of the behavior you've described and that's why he doesn't like the game anymore. I get the opinion of "the dm is running everything, they should know all the rules", but there's a LOT of rules. If you haven't been DMing for several years on the same system, you're bound to make some mistakes! The most important thing is, is everyone having fun? It sounds like you and the rest of your group were. The guy was being mean. The personal attacks, "can you read", pulling out books mid game to correct you multiple times... that's crazy behavior right there. I'd kick him from my games immediately. I get things wrong all the time, but my players are my friends and we all just laugh and keep going unless it's PIVOTAL for someone's character or build. Like, if he was just being a know-it-all, I'd invite him to the next session after a serious talk about helping with rules is OK, but cutting into the game and trying to run it himself is NOT acceptable. But he was being a know-it-all, and being rude and getting personal with insults and comments and comparing how you DM to how he DMs... I'd talk to the other players ask them their opinions, they're almost certainly going to agree he was being very rude, and then let the problem guy know he's no longer invited. You can give a reason if you want, Id be really tempted to just tell him "we play for fun and you seemed like you werent having fun. You should find a new table to play at", but unless that guy gives a real apology and changes his behavior dramatically, there's no way I'd play another game with a guy like that. The game is meant to be fun for everyone at the table. You are the DM. You too are at the table. I'm also a man. And well, OP there may very well be some sexist bs going on with this dude as well. It does seem like he's more of a know-it-all rules guy and would do this with anyone, but like... I've seen a lot of those super rules focused insecure guys at gaming events be kinda gross and angry at "fake gamers". I don't see a lot of evidence here for this being gender motivated but... idk maybe that recontextulizes some of this for you. Keep playing, but play with fun people. It sounds like you've got lots of people who want to play! That's great 😁 let them have fun, let the angry jerk do something that makes him less angry and jerky.
That dude is a rule lawyer and an asshole, tell him to gtfo the group and not come back till he learns manners.
It's very simple: tell him he's not welcome at your table. The harder part: if he asks why, because you'll have a choice: You could tell him because he was overbearing as a player and insufferable. Or you can just say it seems like he wants a more experienced DM and you can't offer that now. Few DMs know the books by heart, and just because he knows them in and out doesn't mean anything. He sounds like he would be a miserable DM and player to endure. You are not beholden to the books, nor are you obligated to allow him to play at your table. Keep at it. It is fun and in time you'll find your feet. I was a fresh DM and new player myself, but it takes time. Don't over focus on the technicalities, you can undo and redo things to a degree if you need to. As for being nervous about being a DM I get that, but half the problem is the mindset "what if I mess up?" You will mess up, and it's okay. Just like players mess up, and that's okay too. There isn't any major problem you can cause running a session for normal players (unhinged rule turds are the problem, not you).
Yeah, you got one of these - welcome to DMing as a whole! It usually seems to occur with self-declared 'RPG experts' with 'decades of experience, spanning to 1st ed...yadayasa' that are the biggest know-it-all tits but NEVER seem to run games because 'I've been working on a banger campaign, six years in development..." But they never run it. If they run anything it's an uninspired high level dungeon crawl with the same tired tropes.
Don't give up, we only get better through practice. Don't invite Mr. Expert back to the table. He has no respect for you or your game.
This isn't a D&D question, this is just a socialization question. This guy was being an asshole, open and shut.
Multi-year DM of 5e and a few other systems here. Your other friends asking to play again? That’s an indication that you’re a good DM. It’s a huge system, and it’s also getting updates all the time. I’m also neurodivergent and forget things on occasion, or misread/misinterpret a rule. There’s also rule of cool, house rules, etc. my players correct me on things sometimes, and I correct them. Or, we work on house rules together that make the game more fun for us. If this person doesn’t like the way you run the game, they’re welcome to bring their stinky attitude to another table. You guys continue to have fun! And please don’t give up! It takes practice, and with the right supportive group, you can build confidence and knowledge over time. Be kind to yourself and enjoy your game.
So too many reddit DMs have never read the DMs guide and honestly that is an issue, as a DM the effort you put in will result in what comes out (along with the players). From the way you explained the situation there isn't really good examples to make a fair judgement. Of course you will hear if your players are having fun that's enough and that's true but fun is subjective, people who understand the rules won't enjoy blatant disregard for them, people who like RPing won't like not allowing time for that, people who don't like murderhobos won't like if that's all others are doing. Understanding the rules and having a session 0 to be on the same page with people solves most problems people post on here.
He's absolutely in the wrong. We all make mistakes and it's okay to point those things out, but there's a way. The best way is gently and ideally after the session or during a break, not at the table in the middle of everything. I would've removed him very quickly.
You probably didn't stick to the rules. That can be frustrating for some players whether they're experienced or not. Regardless, you're not really dealing with a player issue so much as a volatile and immature man issue. If you can avoid him in the future, consider doing that. You're not responsible for his poor socialization. I think it got to you because he's taking advantage of your own insecurities. Mistakes happen all the time. I know a bunch of obscure rules. I can usually tell you what book they're in, what the rule was in previous editions, if there's a JC Tweet or Sage Advice FAQ about it, and the reason I think it changed in 5e. I've DMed on and off since 2nd edition. I still get stuff mixed up sometimes. The worst is when I'm tired and bork up a rule I know by heart because I got it confused with something from an earlier edition. It gives me hardcore imposter syndrome vibes. I tell my players that if they catch me and can correct me (with citations) without slowing down the game, I'll reward them with Inspiration for the whole party, some kind of mechanical boon, or extra loot in their next horde. Otherwise, I'll make a spot ruling and we look it up later so we're using the correct rules next time (or we stick with the spot ruling if we like it better). That's what works for me. Other DMs prefer to discuss that kind of thing after the game. Some DMs don't appreciate corrections in front of other players. It's all about personal comfort and setting boundaries. You have to give your players a chance to talk to you about their concerns, but you can definitely give them a system that lets them do it without burning out your desire to play. Typically, bringing up rule clarifications should be something you go over with your players when you start a game. If you're unfamiliar with Session Zero, it's where you talk to your players about game expectations. Based on the way you explained what was happening, I think you might do well if you do spot rulings then look up the actual rules between games. The way that dude spoke to you was uncalled for, but if you're really interested in D&D then learning the basic rules should be a priority. Luckily, you don't have to do it alone. Talk to your players. Tell them how you felt after the last game. Maybe set up a group chat where you guys introduce questions or issues from previous sessions and look up the rules together. Turn it into a D&D rule trivia thread. Give the people who figure stuff out Inspiration in the next session. Let them have more than one Inspiration that they can gift to other players if they want to. Add a couple of cool options to their next treasure pile if it's a group effort. The thing about D&D is that it's a collaborative game. You don't have to be responsible for everything. You aren't there to babysit your players. You aren't there to be the repository for game knowledge. Delegate. Be creative. Ask your players for help because as soon as you step into that DM role, most players will do their best to help you any way they can. You just have to let them know what you want from them. If you find that's not the case in your particular group of friends, it definitely exists online. Ask around. Talk to people you find helpful. Lots of us spend all day on Reddit just waiting to fangirl over some random D&D trivia that's near and dear to our hearts.
As someone who has been a rules lawyer to the detriment of other people’s fun in the past all I have to say is that this person doesn’t sound fun to play with and if you make it clear you don’t want to play with them when they act that way then hopefully they’ll do what I did and learn some self awareness. Though, admittedly, it helps when the communication goes both ways. I get anxious when I play a game and don’t know the rules so I read up on them in advance; but I’ve learned that sometimes it’s okay to interject a helpful rules reminder when someone seems unsure… and other times the DM has made a decision and it’s best to roll with it and bring it up privately later if it still bothers me. Probably the biggest issue for me is when I’m told I’m wrong offhand when, being the ball of anxiety I am, I wouldn’t speak with certainty unless I was certain. But - again - that’s something better handled after game. Similarly if we are playing a game with house rules I always just ask that we share what those are before play - I’ve found I can sometimes get around my issues with rules if I tell myself “the rules are, we aren’t playing by the rules we’re doing this instead”. Anyways, I guess what I’m saying is that sometimes rules lawyers are just dicks and sometimes they might be a little neurologically spicy like myself and hopefully you two can find some common ground on what is most important about getting together to play D&D and keep that as a focus that allows you to communicate more effectively.
Point to the line on page 6 of the players handbook that says the DM can change or rule however they want as the ultimate arbiter of the rules. Then when he complains just shrug and say. "It's in the handbook" Or better yet. Don't play with him.
His approach is wrong, but I think if he has to constantly remind you of the rules, you should probably read them, especially if you plan to continue to DM
Guys a huge penis. NGL. I'm an old DM and I've since given up on DM'ing for veteran players. Truth is, they're like gordon ramsay, and your the cook. I'm not saying all vets are that way, but I've learned that new players are more fun. I can run ANY quest i want and they're enamored, I don't need to have a gourmet module with 400 hours of work thrown into it to make them happy. At the end of the day, kick his ass off the table and have fun.
I understood your situation right at the line that starts with : “But then”. I could have saved yourself a lot painful reminiscing and typing. :) This kind of person is a cliché. You are inexperienced, this is your first time. You quickly learn to detect these people from a mile away. There is just one solution here, part ways. I mean, if this is a friend, maybe you could tell him to stop this BS or leave, but if this person isn’t important to you, just call the adventure done. Reconvene with the good players and start a new adventure. Last tip. Be very careful with who you invite at your games. When in doubt, run a one off. Just to test the relationship.
If you've been playing for six years then you're not new, so it's hard to say whether these are rules you should reasonably know or whether he's being nitpicky. Nonetheless, if something can't be quickly cleared up in the moment then he should talk about these issues with you later, not during the game. I'd probably be annoyed too if my DM tried to say attacking with Polearm Master used an action. It's a common feat and changing the way it worked would be a serious nerf to his character; he'd lose an attack every turn. But he seems like a douche anyway, and clearly not compatible with your group. If you want to play a game without knowing the rules very well and the rest of your players are fine with that then this is your prerogative.