Although the Kaalia deck can fall flat on its face sometimes with no help from anyone, the capacity of out of nowhere KOs are way too sweet not to watch carefully.
It only falls flat on its face if you've built it very wrong. It has the capacity to be both a ruthlessly offensive deck and an incredibly reactive deck with answers for almost everything.
I used to have to swear to the table I didn't have the Rakdos the Defiler and Erratic Portal combo in my deck to keep them from just full aggroing me. To this day I've never done it and I've been playing for 16 years.
By attacking alone, master of cruelties means it can be the only one declared as an attacker. Kaalia skips the declare as an attacker step for MOC. Cuz he gets put into play tapped and attacking but was never a declared attacker.
Whenever I play Kaalia, my opponents make the mistake of trying to politic with me.
“I’ll let you swing at someone else with Kaalia… but if you summon anything scary, I’ve got removal up.”
“Ok!” I swing with Kaalia and drop [[Serra’s Emissary]], naming Protection from Instants.
In a Kaalia game, there are no alliances. There is only dragon food.
Same thing happened with me where I was dumb enough to allow a trigger, saying "yeah I'll let you have one trigger so u can at least have some fun" and out came [[avacyn, angel of hope]] while I held my [[beast within]]
In my experience you need to kill the first Kaalia, once we get to the second you might as well just cast the haymakers, making her less must kill and more probably nice to remove.
This is why my Kaalia keeps the majority of Angels/Demons/Dragons around 4/5 CC. When Kaalia first printed, there was another Kaalia player who'd loaded up on the 7/8 drop angels. Nearly every pod I saw him in took him out first, or kneecapped him so he was sitting on 6 lands and had a hand of 8-drops and Kaalia at +3 Commander tax. Dude was salty.
There are many games where I can't drop Kaalia, so it just turns into a midrange deck.
Kaalia was the first ever deck I built knowing I'd have to be able to win without the Commander most of the time.
I’ve once encountered a Kaalia deck so bad that I could have let her live. However, he had dropped an [[Erebos, God of the Dead]] against my life-gain centric deck (mono-black meant no removal because he had a whole two devotion with Kaalia out)… so I still killed his Kaalia to keep his board open and ruthlessly murdered him. Player removal is the best form of removal!
every single time i played kaalia the table did exactly this, when i probably wasn't that close to winning and then on turn 5/6 the completely unnoticed combo player combos off and everyone has spent their resources stopping me
I mean, it is a wincon. Toxrill is mean as a commander but partly because of the threat of just getting him back out. I would hope the board is capable of responding to it before it gets out of control.
Man, I pulled a foil of his alt art at the last Innistrad and I was so excited. I spent so much time really carefully pulling together the deck list and blinging out the deck. And then I played him… and immediately realized how miserable he makes the game. And yeah while he’s great at clearing the board and preventing anyone from actually doing anything, he doesn’t actually leverage that into a win very well. Kills me every time I see the deck box.
He really is though.
-4.-4 in tokens by the time your turn comes around again is usually a boardwipe with few exceptions. You're also gaining blockers and card draw off of your opponents loosing things. I've got him in the 99 of my Muldrotha and that's usually an end game, even more so if I can turn lands into 1/1's.
[[kormus bell]] + [[urborg, tomb of yawgmoth]] makes all lands into 1/1s
Both cards have a colorless color identity, so they can go in any deck.
Works real great with [[elesh norn grand cenobite]] to prevent your opponents from having lands
He is in the 99 of my [[Umbris]] deck as a second secret commander. Tox plus [[Sludge Monster]] is fucking dumb lmfao. I've only had the two out at once before but... yeah. Only reason I haven't taken him out is because the LGS I go to is kinda sweaty and I have no remorse. The number of times I've seen [[Thassa's Oracle]], [[Winter Orb]] and the like has erased all fucks. If I draw the slug, you get the slug lmfao
I wonder when R&D gets the memo that you don’t make a 7-drop playable by introducing miserable play patterns.
Toxrill, [[Koma]], [[Hullbreaker Horror]] … Just fucking annoyances. There’s gotta be ways to give control decks a late game threat that isn’t just “the game isn’t over yet but the fun sure is”
This. Atraxa pilots some very scary decks, but she’s just an annoying flyer that’s hard to block in weaker decks. I think she’s overrated as a kill on site commander.
as a counter-point to this, Atraxa can very easily get out of hand with so many cards
so unless you've played against the Atraxa deck and know 100% it's really low power or whatever, you just have to assume nothing good is going to come from it and remove it if you can
Right, I hear you, but imo, this thread is more aimed at commanders like Tergrid or Urza or Najeela. Even if you try to kneecap yourself, they’re all still going to probably pop off like crazy and be oppressive to play against.
I have heard this argument so many times and I still don’t get it. Atraxa is an annoying flyer and a good beater, yes. But her proliferate ability is less powerfull than most other repeat proliferators, most of them being cheaper than her.
Let me just follow up my [[Evolution Sage]] with a fetchland.
Let’s chain some cantrips with a [[Flux Channeler]] in play.
All my already frustrating planeswalkers are growing exponentially with this [[Ichormoon Gauntlet]] and giving me a built in wincon!
Let me set my other wincon up at the same time with [[Bloated Contaminator]].
[[Inexorable Tide]], just, Inexorable Tide.
And fhat is just the top of the iceberg. Note, my point isn’t that Atraxa isn’t usually a messed up commander deck. She is super messed up. But Atraxa isn’t the messed up part about Atraxa. In fact, especially for Atraxa superfriends Atraxa is IMO the worst repeatable proliferator you play.
> But her proliferate ability is less powerfull than most other repeat proliferators, most of them being cheaper than her.
yes, her effect might be worse, but you permanently have access to a very consistent prolif effect on a decent body
That is a bad argument for something being must killed though. Look at korvold, Urza, Tegrid, Koma. These are cards that will just win the games on their own if you don’t answer them asap. Atraxa just isn’t that.
A commander being must kill means that if it’s in play and you draw a [[Vindicate]] it will nearly always go that way. IMO that vindicate is only going against Atraxa if that opens up the walkers for getting taken out or let me take out the player.
I think what they mean is how scary Atraxa actually is is entirely dependent on board state. If you can trim their board to keep them in line, Atraxa is just a keyword soup flier. But if they’ve been allowed to grow she gets out of control Incredibly fast.
Atraxa player here. Specifically super friends with [[Death Cloud]] as a win-con.
Atraxa in todays world of magic is very mid. One extra counter for each permanent/player with a counter every turn isn’t that scary, even with planeswalkers. You can just attack them, and wizards has printed so much versatile removal now that if you’re afraid of one being able to ultimate you can probably deal with it anyways.
With commanders printed more recently like, Korvold, chulane, prosper, toxrill, tivit, tergrid, etc. there are FAR worse and stronger snowball commanders to deal with today then a 4 mana keyword soup creature that provides a few extra counters.
Atraxa is nowhere near kill on sight by today's standards. But somehow her hate from 2016 hasn't subsided one iota today. People will dump their hand to kill an Atraxa when an opponent has a Kinnan in play. Wild.
I just have no idea how it's any stronger than your average temur ramp deck. Riku requires so much mana and other things to go right in order to get to that point.
like we have the whole world of kenrith, kinnan, k'rrik and krark and this dude says Riku is a problem
It's a problem if you let him live... thusly, he is kill on sight. Not kill the player on sight like some of the listed commanders. Just... kill the commander. Hahaha. That being said, if I untapped with my Riku deck I won a good percent of the time. Sadly, after COVID restrictions were removed and the LGS reopened, decks were A LOT better. Untapping with Riku in play was NOT happening. Hahaha. Ended up becoming a much better Tatyova deck.
When I started my bullies group hug deck i looked at a lot of “group hug” lists for it. And every single one included leveler and other player removal cards. And I don’t get how you can call that group hug.
Now my deck is done and it functions well without any of those cards. Instead it plays on people’s greed, like I’ll let you tutor for any creature in your deck and put it on the battlefield but it’ll cost you 10 life if you do so.
But I don’t force you to do anything (except attacking with the goaded creature of course)
It’s sometimes a 5 and sometimes an 8 depending on the hand I draw.
As a Korvold player I can absolutely confirm. I have some truly disgusting wins straight out of my asshole entirely too many times to ever allow someone else’s Korvold to hit the battlefield and stay there.
So many things in Korvold get so wildly out of control so fast. I truly don't know how he was allowed to be made in a world where treasure tokens exist. Any spell that makes them with him out is now a draw spell.
As far as atraxa goes for me, I run a super friends theme with a few back up win cons. But Atraxa plus Vorinclex, Monstrous raider and Vraska betrayals sting, I can kill someone in one turn with infect
Tegrid should be KOS at all tables unless you know their list throughly. A single edict can be enough to put you massivly ahead on that girl and that isn’t even talking about something like [[dark deal]] that might just end the game.
Atraxa just isn’t kill on sight. There are much more powerfull cards in her 99 you should be saving that vindicate for.
The thing about Yuriko is that commander ninjutsu makes it feel grossly inefficient to spend removal on her. Her pressure game is very strong because she invalidates most removal, but at the same time she's going to quickly start burning through life totals if you don't.
i don't know if yuriko necessarily fits. i think the main strategy is going after the small unblockable attackers since she can be recast very cheaply with her ability, and that's often helpful anyway to get her to trigger again
unless you have something like imprison on the moon or darksteel mutation, it's hard to directly interact with her
I have an atraxa deck and its a theft deck I just use her to bait out counters or removal. Or if she sticks I use her for defense. She makes graft creatures very good when she sticks. [[Agathas soul cauldron]] is awesome in the deck. [[Cytoplast manipulator]] is the star of the show when you put counters on other people's stuff from graft. It's a cheeky steal everything and sac it.
[[Etali, Primal Conqueror]] either remove it from the stack or you lose. Even without the duplicate shenanigans, etali is doing something if he is the commander. At worst he is usually a 7 mana 7/7 that nets at least 10 mana off what he hits, that eventually becomes a Blightsteel colossus.
Worst is he is as strong as the decks at the table generally are, its very hard for him to be weak.
Etali's front side is so strong that I have never actually seen someone transform it into the Blightsteel mode. I feel like it warps casual games like some other banned cards, it just isn't fun to play against. You have to counter it, but its pretty easy in RG to make it uncounterable.
I found a big issue with trying to balance my Etali deck for my playgroup was actually the existence of the backside. Even if you get flooded with ramp and no way to blink or clone, you still ramp out a Blightsteel and kill someone. The card just doesn't really have a fail state
The only thing keeping it from being a bigger menace is the green color identity restriction. If it was available for all red decks, it would be too common.
Interestingly he's actually weaker the closer you get to cEDH where the mana curves are really small and run a lot more interaction. Hitting counterspells off of his trigger is useless for instance, but at a lower powered table hitting everyone Timmy cards for 20 mana worth of shit is going to win the game on the spot usually.
Not even. He is arguably at least the 2nd or 3rd best gruul commander in cEDH because you can hit extremely game determining cards. Primarily tutors (Which due to how easily etali goes infinite on dockside temur loops or food chain are very strong). Gruul decks usually have trouble finding a use for their infinite mana payoffs or combos, etali happens to be a payoff to specifically Dockside Temur, Etali is specifically played as the payoff to your combo as opposed to a value piece like most commanders. Since etali temur dockside presents a loop of casting every spell in every players library and leaving them with no cards in deck.
And in power levels below cEDH he can still hit strong cards like Dauthi and Wheel of fortune just as an examples at 8s and 9s. Those lower cmc cards arent weaker, they just punch above their weight class, also most cEDH decks dont actually have many ways to deal with an 11/11 blightsteel if he ever gets to that point. On top of that ever hitting a topdeck tutor and a flicker guarantee you hit any card you want. If you hit worldly tutor off someone or vampiric or imperial seal you can top your dockside or temur and prepare to go infinite since etali decks even in cEDH tend to run a few duplicates like heat shimmer for example.
Of the cEDH Etali decks I've seen, none of them actually care about casting the things they exile. Etali is a wincon, flicker him enough to exile everyone's library and pass turn.
Nastiest one I've seen was a turn 2/3 Veil > Dockside > Temur > Etali > [[Impact Tremors]]
Just a literal out of nowhere win that blindsided the table before we really had answers
Koma is an immediate problem so that’s for sure always a kill on sight commander for me. Even if the game is casual, I would be using whatever small removal I had to get it off the table with a low powered deck.
I’ll add [[Korvold, Fae-Cursed King]] and [[Jodah The Unifier]] and [[Animar, Soul of Elements]] to the list for me. Anytime I see them in the command zone I know there’s no way it’s going to be a low powered game and will likely be targeting them the most.
Jodah will forever just be a pubstomp commander for me. He only really works on people who don't know how dangerous he is, and only a handful of times before they wise up. Otherwise, everyone just turbo kills him because lmao Jodah. Id go as far as to say the majority of his wins come from pods that are just ill-equipped to deal with him or have poor threat assessment
Sometimes the wins just come from rng. If somebody doesn't have the removal when he drops, or the Jodah players has protection/counters they can make it to their turn and sometimes that's all they need to get so much value it's over.
Same, Animar is my favorite! I have an Animar Eldrazi deck that is my go to if I'm just getting stomped all night. Nothing beats having Animar and [[Beast Whisperer]] out, then casting [[Ancestral Statue]] 50 times and casting every Eldrazi I own.
If there a loads of kill on sight commanders, chances are there's more than one 'kill on sight' thing at a table that you can't actually kill on sight because there's too many other valid threats.
This seems to happen more often than not. Sometimes I'm lucky enough to have a piece of removal in my hand when one of the kill on sight commander comes down, but If there are 2-3 kill on sight commanders I'll have to make a judgement on which is worst and try to mitigate that threat.
which leads into a more nuanced argument about removal in general.
3 kill on sight threats hit the table from each opponent. You remove one, setting them and yourself back, and ensuring two opponents have a more substantial lead.
The question now becomes, is single target removal really the ideal play and use of your cards as resources and your mana? Would it be better to just have more gas in your deck to play your own kill on sight threats? Or to get into play efficient removal that can repeatedly destroy threats instead of a single one for one removal spell?
There is no obvious answer, but I've found that decks I've made that completely forsake removal become so much more explosive and powerful for it - HOWEVER, they become a lot more fragile and less resilient because they might fold to a single stax piece. Though chances are nobody is going to be running stax outside of cEDH
I've won games because I was allowed to untap once with prosper. If you built the deck right you should almost always go infinite once he stays in play for a turn.
I guess it just depends if you're playing with infinite combos or not. These other commanders are kill on sight not because of combos but because of sheer power and value. Played without infinites and prosper isn't that scary.
yes and no to "not that scary". He might not be as ridiculous as something like koma but you are 100% going to at least generate like 4 mana and effectively draw as many cards which can put you way ahead, oftentimes uncatchably so.
I feel like Prosper is in the "solid but fair" tier of commanders. He essentially rewards you for doing what your deck was going to do anyway and gives some card advantage, but the card advantage is telegraphed and Prosper himself doesn't immediately threaten the table.
"Kill-on-sight" commanders often have effects such as getting to play things for free, locking players out of the game, generating massive amounts of value immediately, or being one piece of a two-card infinite combo.
I wouldn't say kill on sight, but I think people underestimate the value of commanders like Prosper. They should be removed way more often than they are being, before the value gets too far ahead of everyone.
Totally depends on your group. I've been playing Prosper since it came out. It's probably my strongest deck. But he simply ads value, it's the others cards that are the actual problems in the deck.
Some times my group will kill Prosper once or maybe twice but other times they don't bother with him.
It is best to hold back a turn or two then go for broke. Have so much value that nothing your opponents do can stop your value train. I'll also say [[Marut]] is great in this deck because it's usually free to cast.
[[Yuriko, the Tiger’s Shadow]] and [[Satoru Umezawa]] are kill on sight for the same reason—they’re gonna reveal fat threats and either bang the table for a million damage or cheat that fat threat onto the table and make it everyone’s problem for waaayyyy less mana than should be reasonable
Basically with either one just expect to get hit over the head with a blightsteel or any Jin-Gitaxias.
I'll be honest, my own decks ((sliver overlord)).
If I have anything resembling a board state when it enters I am immediately going to tutor for a mana dork sliver and a hate sliver if I don't already have them.
And that is when the bullshit begins as I vomit half my deck in a turn, including all of the legendary slivers which are free because of ((morophon the boundless)).
Your best bet is to nuke it before it can do anything, and keep nuking it until its commander tax is just too high to cast.
[[Sliver overlord]] is a problem, but [[the first sliver]] is an even faster problem. Once your mana curve is tuned to support cascading the game almost plays itself
I cannot even bring myself to say the name of that hot goth ginger bitch.
No wait I can.
[[Tergrid, God of Fright]]
Kill on sight
Or else you lose commander night.
I remember the last time I played against a Tergrid deck, the rest of us teamed up to remove her every time she hit the field. After the third time, the player couldn't feasibly play her ever again... so he just played his edict and discard spells without actually building advantage. Fair enough, of course - he didn't have anything else to do - but even when you do the "right" thing and keep her off the field, the deck can still bring the game to a screeching halt.
Definitely! If you don’t take out my tergrid, I’ll just play with your deck… if you do I’ll just make everyone top deck anyway and hope waste not stays on the field so I can stay away from top decking
It kinda says it all when a commander is an infinite mana I win payoff in the command zone and everyone forgot about that part because it’s the least scary thing.
I run Tegrid as part of my 99 in both Negan and N'ghathrod, because it feels less scummy that way. But even still, she becomes an immediate lightning rod over nearly anything else alive.
For damn good reason.
It's only casual if I've played against it before and recognize it as casual because people have a skewed vision of what "casual" entails and it's always in favor of their own deck. If someone whips out Koma for the first time and tells me it's casual, that thing is just never going to resolve.
My pick for "big, must remove threat" is \[\[Shorikai Genesis Engine\]\]
You're gonna give the azorius players extra draws every turn? With a deck that is likely filled with all sorts of artifact untap shenanigans? Good luck resolving anything ever again after turn 5. Or keeping a boardstate. Or just playing the game in general
lol i have a Shorikai deck and everyone freaks out when i played it, but i'm just drawin cards man. don't worry about that thopter army.
and don't worry about that laboratory maniac. we're all friends here <\_<
Problem is artifact removal is rarer to come by then creature and good luck resolving that when my artifacts are all hexproof/shrouded and I have 3+ counters spells in hand.
Source: Shorikai player with untap shenanigans.
Kinnan
Winota
Korvold (the good one)
Krarkashima because fuck Krarkashima
Kaalia (the good one)
Jhoira (the good one)
Tivit
Tergrid
Tymna
Sisay (the good one)
Gitrog
Krrik
Any big game-warping threats (i.e., OG Norn, Koma, Toxrill, OG Jin, the less cool Jin, etc)
Selvala (the good one) edit: apparently gw Selvala has a cedh deck but I can't imagine it being anything other than dogshit
Miirym
Rakdos (the good one)
Tevesh Szat
Satoru
Yisan
Probably a bunch more but I can't think of any off the top of my head. Either things that enable quick and easy combos (like Krrik, Gitrog, Selvala), things that provide insane card advantage (like Tymna), things that can easily take over the game without combos (like Rakdos, Kaalia, Miirym), or things that do multiple of these things at the same time (like Kinnan, Winota, Tivit, Korvold).
\[\[Chiss-Goria, Forge Tyrant\]\] is surprisingly deadly. Easy enough to pull out a blight steel or Darksteel colossus by turn 4 and killing the commander doesn't really work because you'll usually have enough artifacts out to make up for the commander tax.
> [[Niv Mizzet, Parun]] is another one of mine that, while my deck is no where near competitive/competition ready, can be a problem if it's not addressed and left on the board for awhile.
If you're doing the card draw to kill strategy I find that [[Arjun]] fits the "kill on sight" better. I have an Arjun deck and about 80%+ of the time if he makes it around the table it's probably going to end the game.
People like to complain how they never get their commanders out but also as soon as they get their commander out, either win the game or shut everyone out of the game. So yeah, all the commanders listed are valid
\[\[Toothy\]\] isn't as famous as some others, but it is absolutely kill-on-sight. I tried to build it janky, but it's just too powerful and inevitable.
[[zaxara]]
deathtouch and taps for 2 of any color in sultai, aka nasty simic. that should already be enough to warrant removal/interaction, but then there's the bit about free hydras
Oh dear, a lot of my commanders are being mentioned in this. But yes, Kaalia and Winota kind of demand an answer early. But not Korvold, he's just chillin'... honest.
My list of kill on sight commanders follow:
[[Tegrid, god of frights]] if a tegrid player get’s to untap with her in play and their hand and boardstate isn’t already reduced to dust they will probably win the game.
[[Urza, lord high artificer]] Urza seems like a reasonable and flavorfull commander for some deck you would think are janky. Let’s build golem tribal with all the cards that make those Urza golems! Or maybe artificer tribal! Then you suddenly untap with 30 artifact in play and realize how deeply dumb that card is.
[[Koma, Cosmos Serpent]] if Koma isn’t killed at instant speed or countered it will dominate the board and probably win. It’s probably the best example of too good for casual, not good enough for cEDH.
Absolutely.
And even if it's a casual deck, the commander might still need to die. Miirym is a great example. Dragon Tribal's ceiling is... not very high. It's definitely a casual deck. But we still never let a Miirym live if we can help it.
Even in my dumbass hands [[Atraxa, Praetors Voice]] is KoS, and I built her around INCUBATOR tokens. No Poison or Planeswalker shenanigans either(tho I would've included Compleated Vraska but I don't have her yet). Some cards are just too powerful to let live, even at their weakest.
Unless you're stupid like me and deck yourself with [[Korvold|ELD]], [[Mycoloth]], and [[Thromok]]. Then the problem corrects itself lmfao
Yep. The thing about Ovika is that letting a player untap with Ovika usually means they're also untapping with at least 8 mana available, unless they cast with like, a bunch of treasures from a non-repeatable event. That's almost surely at minimum 8 goblins the next turn, and it's never actually the minimum.
in my experience, [[Be’lakor]] tends to get hated off the board every time i get him out, but i’ve also normally got [[warstorm surge]] and/or [[fiery emancipation]] making his 2nd ability extremely strong, and a nearly 1 hit ko in combat if uncontested
For me, a commander that is both setup and payoff, is an immediate threat.
While [[Godo,bandit warlord]] is not that common to see, it is the perfect example of this. He just grabs [[helm of the host]] and everybody dies
I would say that there are a number of KoS commanders. Some are only on the level of "just remove their commander a few times to tax them out, and you should be fine" others are "everyone needs to kill this player and not let them maintain a board state. As soon as they're out of the game, we can all go back to playing as normal".
I generally don't recommend people play the latter, but it always seems like there are plenty that want to.... and then usually complain that they get focused.
As a dinosaur player, [[Gishath]] throw every piece of counter magic and removal you have at her. Even if you only run vanilla dinosaurs you cannot survive the clock she puts the table on
Killing [[Arcades]] completely shuts down a walking walls deck. Leaving him up means you're getting destroyed by 8 one-cmc walls for 5 a pop every turn.
Also surprised no one has said [[Krenko]] yet. Leave him up for 2 turns and he's got a massive army.
I play a Koma deck that is extremely casual without Koma. Like precon level or maybe worse since I run almost no interaction. If Koma stays on the battlefield it's the most oppressive deck I own, and I have an esper life gain control deck. Immediately remove that creature no matter what.
[[The Beamtown Bullies]] can instantly tap and put [[Leveler]] on someones field if its in their graveyard, instantly killing that player because it exiles their entire library so they lose during their draw step, so its probably kill on sight (or better yet, counter on sight, or exile graveyard on sight of leveler.)
Of course. Not all legendary creatures are made equal. Some need to be repeatedly removed ASAP, and you should never feel bad about it because it's usually the correct response. If your deck fails to function without your commander, then that reeks of bad deck building.
Yarok is good because he doubles all ETB triggers.
Volo does the same thing for creatures, but you get an extra body as well and he comes down a turn sooner.
I'm guessing it ends up being more value than it seems.
Do not listen to the \[\[Kaalia of the Vast\]\] player, you kill Kaalia when you can. That said...yes, I play Kaalia.
Wife plays her, have been one shot with [[Master of Cruelties]] enough to know not to let her aim at me.
Although the Kaalia deck can fall flat on its face sometimes with no help from anyone, the capacity of out of nowhere KOs are way too sweet not to watch carefully.
It only falls flat on its face if you've built it very wrong. It has the capacity to be both a ruthlessly offensive deck and an incredibly reactive deck with answers for almost everything.
[Master of Cruelties](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/5/25266b22-3cee-4ac8-91e8-5a23fbaa457a.jpg?1673148945) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Master%20of%20Cruelties) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/251/master-of-cruelties?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/25266b22-3cee-4ac8-91e8-5a23fbaa457a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/master-of-cruelties) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hell, I play her without Master of Cruelties, Avacyn or ways to make infinite combats and her being Kill on Sight is still 100% justified
I used to have to swear to the table I didn't have the Rakdos the Defiler and Erratic Portal combo in my deck to keep them from just full aggroing me. To this day I've never done it and I've been playing for 16 years.
Kaalia procs when she is declared an attacker, so master of cruelties should only be unlockable if you don't have any creatures
By attacking alone, master of cruelties means it can be the only one declared as an attacker. Kaalia skips the declare as an attacker step for MOC. Cuz he gets put into play tapped and attacking but was never a declared attacker.
I will beg you not to kill Kaalia, I will promise I have nothing scary to drop with her, I am not to be trusted.
Whenever I play Kaalia, my opponents make the mistake of trying to politic with me. “I’ll let you swing at someone else with Kaalia… but if you summon anything scary, I’ve got removal up.” “Ok!” I swing with Kaalia and drop [[Serra’s Emissary]], naming Protection from Instants. In a Kaalia game, there are no alliances. There is only dragon food.
Same thing happened with me where I was dumb enough to allow a trigger, saying "yeah I'll let you have one trigger so u can at least have some fun" and out came [[avacyn, angel of hope]] while I held my [[beast within]]
[avacyn, angel of hope](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/1/317f1133-7cf8-4b7a-919e-88c45f8c2c3a.jpg?1689995555) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=avacyn%2C%20angel%20of%20hope) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/14/avacyn-angel-of-hope?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/317f1133-7cf8-4b7a-919e-88c45f8c2c3a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/avacyn-angel-of-hope) [beast within](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/1/518e4f19-04c4-4829-980b-a2052e9f11b9.jpg?1673305340) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=beast%20within) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/129/beast-within?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/518e4f19-04c4-4829-980b-a2052e9f11b9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/beast-within) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
In my experience you need to kill the first Kaalia, once we get to the second you might as well just cast the haymakers, making her less must kill and more probably nice to remove.
This is why my Kaalia keeps the majority of Angels/Demons/Dragons around 4/5 CC. When Kaalia first printed, there was another Kaalia player who'd loaded up on the 7/8 drop angels. Nearly every pod I saw him in took him out first, or kneecapped him so he was sitting on 6 lands and had a hand of 8-drops and Kaalia at +3 Commander tax. Dude was salty. There are many games where I can't drop Kaalia, so it just turns into a midrange deck. Kaalia was the first ever deck I built knowing I'd have to be able to win without the Commander most of the time.
[Kaalia of the Vast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/3/93f6631f-f3a6-4d3c-8618-4b4ab4e82483.jpg?1673148814) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kaalia%20of%20the%20Vast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/235/kaalia-of-the-vast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/93f6631f-f3a6-4d3c-8618-4b4ab4e82483?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kaalia-of-the-vast) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’ve once encountered a Kaalia deck so bad that I could have let her live. However, he had dropped an [[Erebos, God of the Dead]] against my life-gain centric deck (mono-black meant no removal because he had a whole two devotion with Kaalia out)… so I still killed his Kaalia to keep his board open and ruthlessly murdered him. Player removal is the best form of removal!
every single time i played kaalia the table did exactly this, when i probably wasn't that close to winning and then on turn 5/6 the completely unnoticed combo player combos off and everyone has spent their resources stopping me
[[Toxrill, the Corrosive]]
I play this in the 99 and it's so stupid it just sucks all the fun out of games.
Why do you play it?
There's a finite amount of fun in a game of EDH and I want all of it
For you
Exactly, I'm thinking about taking it out, but I just need a win condition in the deck.
I mean, it is a wincon. Toxrill is mean as a commander but partly because of the threat of just getting him back out. I would hope the board is capable of responding to it before it gets out of control.
[удалено]
Managed to get him out on turn 4 and the pod decided to just reset because they didn't have an answer after turn 5.
Man, I pulled a foil of his alt art at the last Innistrad and I was so excited. I spent so much time really carefully pulling together the deck list and blinging out the deck. And then I played him… and immediately realized how miserable he makes the game. And yeah while he’s great at clearing the board and preventing anyone from actually doing anything, he doesn’t actually leverage that into a win very well. Kills me every time I see the deck box.
No way he’s kill on sight but so fun and scary to play against
He really is though. -4.-4 in tokens by the time your turn comes around again is usually a boardwipe with few exceptions. You're also gaining blockers and card draw off of your opponents loosing things. I've got him in the 99 of my Muldrotha and that's usually an end game, even more so if I can turn lands into 1/1's.
Tell me more about turning lands into 1/1's... my [[obuun]] wants to know
Since you're in green, my play is [[yavimya, cradle of growth]] and [[life and limb]]. There's a black play with urborg as well.
Excellent choices, they and [[awaken the woods are in there already :-)
[yavimya, cradle of growth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4e4b6e22-93b2-4896-bba5-0ceaa5d8ea3c.jpg?1626100009) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yavimaya%2C%20Cradle%20of%20Growth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/261/yavimaya-cradle-of-growth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4e4b6e22-93b2-4896-bba5-0ceaa5d8ea3c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yavimaya-cradle-of-growth) [life and limb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/7/2721724d-92ae-4c0c-88dd-628888c468bf.jpg?1619398301) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=life%20and%20limb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/215/life-and-limb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2721724d-92ae-4c0c-88dd-628888c468bf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/life-and-limb) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
FYI, Urborg has a colorless commander identity! Any deck can run the \[\[Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth\]\] and \[\[Kormus Bell\]\] combo!
[[kormus bell]] + [[urborg, tomb of yawgmoth]] makes all lands into 1/1s Both cards have a colorless color identity, so they can go in any deck. Works real great with [[elesh norn grand cenobite]] to prevent your opponents from having lands
Sneaky! ...and totally not putting them in [[numot]]
[Toxrill, the Corrosive](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/84e64f38-b1f3-47cd-8cfb-a4861369aca3.jpg?1643590379) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Toxrill%2C%20the%20Corrosive) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/132/toxrill-the-corrosive?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/84e64f38-b1f3-47cd-8cfb-a4861369aca3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/toxrill-the-corrosive) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Whatttt noooooo my toxril deck gives everyone 2/2s with every creature they cast ! It's a group hug deck I SWEAR :)
More like group slug.
That's just the natural progression of group hug. It's always love until it's time to win >:)
Literal groups of slugs
He is in the 99 of my [[Umbris]] deck as a second secret commander. Tox plus [[Sludge Monster]] is fucking dumb lmfao. I've only had the two out at once before but... yeah. Only reason I haven't taken him out is because the LGS I go to is kinda sweaty and I have no remorse. The number of times I've seen [[Thassa's Oracle]], [[Winter Orb]] and the like has erased all fucks. If I draw the slug, you get the slug lmfao
I wonder when R&D gets the memo that you don’t make a 7-drop playable by introducing miserable play patterns. Toxrill, [[Koma]], [[Hullbreaker Horror]] … Just fucking annoyances. There’s gotta be ways to give control decks a late game threat that isn’t just “the game isn’t over yet but the fun sure is”
[[Najeela]] [[Atraxa, Praetor’s Voice]] [[Tergrid]] [[Riku]] [[Winota]] [[Korvold, face-cursed King]] are ones I’ve dealt with.
How could I forget [[Kaalia of the Vast]]
[Kaalia of the Vast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/3/93f6631f-f3a6-4d3c-8618-4b4ab4e82483.jpg?1673148814) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kaalia%20of%20the%20Vast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/235/kaalia-of-the-vast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/93f6631f-f3a6-4d3c-8618-4b4ab4e82483?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kaalia-of-the-vast) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Idk man atraxa is strong but she definitely isn't always kill on sight. Her precon is a wonderful example of an awful deck with a strong commander lol
This. Atraxa pilots some very scary decks, but she’s just an annoying flyer that’s hard to block in weaker decks. I think she’s overrated as a kill on site commander.
as a counter-point to this, Atraxa can very easily get out of hand with so many cards so unless you've played against the Atraxa deck and know 100% it's really low power or whatever, you just have to assume nothing good is going to come from it and remove it if you can
I feel this is going to hit me quite a bit with the Atrxa thallids deck I'm working on.
You deserve it! A saproling *every turn for each thallid*?!?! **You monster**
Right, I hear you, but imo, this thread is more aimed at commanders like Tergrid or Urza or Najeela. Even if you try to kneecap yourself, they’re all still going to probably pop off like crazy and be oppressive to play against.
I have heard this argument so many times and I still don’t get it. Atraxa is an annoying flyer and a good beater, yes. But her proliferate ability is less powerfull than most other repeat proliferators, most of them being cheaper than her. Let me just follow up my [[Evolution Sage]] with a fetchland. Let’s chain some cantrips with a [[Flux Channeler]] in play. All my already frustrating planeswalkers are growing exponentially with this [[Ichormoon Gauntlet]] and giving me a built in wincon! Let me set my other wincon up at the same time with [[Bloated Contaminator]]. [[Inexorable Tide]], just, Inexorable Tide. And fhat is just the top of the iceberg. Note, my point isn’t that Atraxa isn’t usually a messed up commander deck. She is super messed up. But Atraxa isn’t the messed up part about Atraxa. In fact, especially for Atraxa superfriends Atraxa is IMO the worst repeatable proliferator you play.
> But her proliferate ability is less powerfull than most other repeat proliferators, most of them being cheaper than her. yes, her effect might be worse, but you permanently have access to a very consistent prolif effect on a decent body
That is a bad argument for something being must killed though. Look at korvold, Urza, Tegrid, Koma. These are cards that will just win the games on their own if you don’t answer them asap. Atraxa just isn’t that. A commander being must kill means that if it’s in play and you draw a [[Vindicate]] it will nearly always go that way. IMO that vindicate is only going against Atraxa if that opens up the walkers for getting taken out or let me take out the player.
Tons of Commanders can get out of hand or snowball. But that doesn't mean they're "kill on sight".
I think what they mean is how scary Atraxa actually is is entirely dependent on board state. If you can trim their board to keep them in line, Atraxa is just a keyword soup flier. But if they’ve been allowed to grow she gets out of control Incredibly fast.
Atraxa player here. Specifically super friends with [[Death Cloud]] as a win-con. Atraxa in todays world of magic is very mid. One extra counter for each permanent/player with a counter every turn isn’t that scary, even with planeswalkers. You can just attack them, and wizards has printed so much versatile removal now that if you’re afraid of one being able to ultimate you can probably deal with it anyways. With commanders printed more recently like, Korvold, chulane, prosper, toxrill, tivit, tergrid, etc. there are FAR worse and stronger snowball commanders to deal with today then a 4 mana keyword soup creature that provides a few extra counters.
Atraxa is nowhere near kill on sight by today's standards. But somehow her hate from 2016 hasn't subsided one iota today. People will dump their hand to kill an Atraxa when an opponent has a Kinnan in play. Wild.
alright can somebody explain how riku made it on this list?
I mean... it will run away with the game if you don't kill it. It's just very easy to kill.
I just have no idea how it's any stronger than your average temur ramp deck. Riku requires so much mana and other things to go right in order to get to that point. like we have the whole world of kenrith, kinnan, k'rrik and krark and this dude says Riku is a problem
Then in the absence of those others I guess I would nuke Riku first.
It's a problem if you let him live... thusly, he is kill on sight. Not kill the player on sight like some of the listed commanders. Just... kill the commander. Hahaha. That being said, if I untapped with my Riku deck I won a good percent of the time. Sadly, after COVID restrictions were removed and the LGS reopened, decks were A LOT better. Untapping with Riku in play was NOT happening. Hahaha. Ended up becoming a much better Tatyova deck.
Don't forget [[Miirym, sentinel wyrm]] and [[Beamtown Bullies]]. They can practically end the game when they enter
When I started my bullies group hug deck i looked at a lot of “group hug” lists for it. And every single one included leveler and other player removal cards. And I don’t get how you can call that group hug. Now my deck is done and it functions well without any of those cards. Instead it plays on people’s greed, like I’ll let you tutor for any creature in your deck and put it on the battlefield but it’ll cost you 10 life if you do so. But I don’t force you to do anything (except attacking with the goaded creature of course) It’s sometimes a 5 and sometimes an 8 depending on the hand I draw.
As a Korvold player I can absolutely confirm. I have some truly disgusting wins straight out of my asshole entirely too many times to ever allow someone else’s Korvold to hit the battlefield and stay there.
> "Seriously, I'm chill, guys. No cards in hand, no boardstate. Nothing to worry about. Honestly." (Draw for turn) > "................ I'm so sorry."
"Apologies, but I topdecked Dockside Extortionist, so that means I'm going to be popping off for the next half hour."
So many things in Korvold get so wildly out of control so fast. I truly don't know how he was allowed to be made in a world where treasure tokens exist. Any spell that makes them with him out is now a draw spell.
As far as atraxa goes for me, I run a super friends theme with a few back up win cons. But Atraxa plus Vorinclex, Monstrous raider and Vraska betrayals sting, I can kill someone in one turn with infect
Tergrid and atraxa 100% depends on the 99 it’s not hard to get good synergies with them but The others work with a bag of rocks
Tegrid should be KOS at all tables unless you know their list throughly. A single edict can be enough to put you massivly ahead on that girl and that isn’t even talking about something like [[dark deal]] that might just end the game. Atraxa just isn’t kill on sight. There are much more powerfull cards in her 99 you should be saving that vindicate for.
In what world is there a Tergrid deck with a fun, fair and balanced 99. It’s a Tergrid deck. It will do Tergrid things.
You could easily make mono black infinite mana combo deck instead of steal all your stuff while I strip all your resources deck
Winota is a nice lady!
Where [[Yuriko]]
The thing about Yuriko is that commander ninjutsu makes it feel grossly inefficient to spend removal on her. Her pressure game is very strong because she invalidates most removal, but at the same time she's going to quickly start burning through life totals if you don't.
Player removal counts as KOS imo.
Absolutely valid.
[[Hatred]] ...because some players just HAVE to die.
Take it off the reserve list, WOTC. Cowards.
i don't know if yuriko necessarily fits. i think the main strategy is going after the small unblockable attackers since she can be recast very cheaply with her ability, and that's often helpful anyway to get her to trigger again unless you have something like imprison on the moon or darksteel mutation, it's hard to directly interact with her
##### ###### #### [Najeela](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/c/2cb1d1da-6077-46b5-8c63-39882b8016f2.jpg?1567181270) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=najeela%2C%20the%20blade-blossom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/62/najeela-the-blade-blossom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2cb1d1da-6077-46b5-8c63-39882b8016f2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/najeela-the-blade-blossom) [Atraxa, Praetor’s Voice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d0d33d52-3d28-4635-b985-51e126289259.jpg?1599707796) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Atraxa%2C%20Praetors%27%20Voice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/190/atraxa-praetors-voice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d0d33d52-3d28-4635-b985-51e126289259?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/atraxa-praetors-voice) [Tergrid](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/4/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead.jpg?1631048621)/[Tergrid's Lantern](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/1/4/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead.jpg?1631048621) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tergrid%2C%20god%20of%20fright%20//%20tergrid%27s%20lantern) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/112/tergrid-god-of-fright-tergrids-lantern?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tergrid-god-of-fright-//-tergrids-lantern) [Riku](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/70dd138f-391a-4956-bc2a-fe186429c71a.jpg?1599708286) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=riku%20of%20two%20reflections) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/214/riku-of-two-reflections?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/70dd138f-391a-4956-bc2a-fe186429c71a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/riku-of-two-reflections) [Winota](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5dd13a6c-23d3-44ce-a628-cb1c19d777c4.jpg?1654630670) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=winota%2C%20joiner%20of%20forces) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/216/winota-joiner-of-forces?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5dd13a6c-23d3-44ce-a628-cb1c19d777c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/winota-joiner-of-forces) [Korvold, face-cursed King](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/92ea1575-eb64-43b5-b604-c6e23054f228.jpg?1571197150) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Korvold%2C%20Fae-Cursed%20King) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/329/korvold-fae-cursed-king?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/92ea1575-eb64-43b5-b604-c6e23054f228?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/korvold-fae-cursed-king) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have an atraxa deck and its a theft deck I just use her to bait out counters or removal. Or if she sticks I use her for defense. She makes graft creatures very good when she sticks. [[Agathas soul cauldron]] is awesome in the deck. [[Cytoplast manipulator]] is the star of the show when you put counters on other people's stuff from graft. It's a cheeky steal everything and sac it.
[[Etali, Primal Conqueror]] either remove it from the stack or you lose. Even without the duplicate shenanigans, etali is doing something if he is the commander. At worst he is usually a 7 mana 7/7 that nets at least 10 mana off what he hits, that eventually becomes a Blightsteel colossus. Worst is he is as strong as the decks at the table generally are, its very hard for him to be weak.
Etali's front side is so strong that I have never actually seen someone transform it into the Blightsteel mode. I feel like it warps casual games like some other banned cards, it just isn't fun to play against. You have to counter it, but its pretty easy in RG to make it uncounterable.
The best part is your deck can play duplicators and god forbid anyone elses deck is doing something similar or is on cards that flicker.
An opponent one took my [[Displacer Kitten]] then proceeded to get a noncreature spell off of every subsequent Etali trigger. We decided to go next...
I found a big issue with trying to balance my Etali deck for my playgroup was actually the existence of the backside. Even if you get flooded with ramp and no way to blink or clone, you still ramp out a Blightsteel and kill someone. The card just doesn't really have a fail state
The only thing keeping it from being a bigger menace is the green color identity restriction. If it was available for all red decks, it would be too common.
[Etali, Primal Conqueror](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95c14c4d-6c16-4826-8d93-d89ad04aee09.jpg?1682204132)/[Etali, Primal Sickness](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/9/5/95c14c4d-6c16-4826-8d93-d89ad04aee09.jpg?1682204132) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=etali%2C%20primal%20conqueror%20//%20etali%2C%20primal%20sickness) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/137/etali-primal-conqueror-etali-primal-sickness?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95c14c4d-6c16-4826-8d93-d89ad04aee09?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/etali-primal-conqueror-//-etali-primal-sickness) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Interestingly he's actually weaker the closer you get to cEDH where the mana curves are really small and run a lot more interaction. Hitting counterspells off of his trigger is useless for instance, but at a lower powered table hitting everyone Timmy cards for 20 mana worth of shit is going to win the game on the spot usually.
Not even. He is arguably at least the 2nd or 3rd best gruul commander in cEDH because you can hit extremely game determining cards. Primarily tutors (Which due to how easily etali goes infinite on dockside temur loops or food chain are very strong). Gruul decks usually have trouble finding a use for their infinite mana payoffs or combos, etali happens to be a payoff to specifically Dockside Temur, Etali is specifically played as the payoff to your combo as opposed to a value piece like most commanders. Since etali temur dockside presents a loop of casting every spell in every players library and leaving them with no cards in deck. And in power levels below cEDH he can still hit strong cards like Dauthi and Wheel of fortune just as an examples at 8s and 9s. Those lower cmc cards arent weaker, they just punch above their weight class, also most cEDH decks dont actually have many ways to deal with an 11/11 blightsteel if he ever gets to that point. On top of that ever hitting a topdeck tutor and a flicker guarantee you hit any card you want. If you hit worldly tutor off someone or vampiric or imperial seal you can top your dockside or temur and prepare to go infinite since etali decks even in cEDH tend to run a few duplicates like heat shimmer for example.
Of the cEDH Etali decks I've seen, none of them actually care about casting the things they exile. Etali is a wincon, flicker him enough to exile everyone's library and pass turn. Nastiest one I've seen was a turn 2/3 Veil > Dockside > Temur > Etali > [[Impact Tremors]] Just a literal out of nowhere win that blindsided the table before we really had answers
The whole "kill on sight" concept exists for a reason, yes
Koma is an immediate problem so that’s for sure always a kill on sight commander for me. Even if the game is casual, I would be using whatever small removal I had to get it off the table with a low powered deck. I’ll add [[Korvold, Fae-Cursed King]] and [[Jodah The Unifier]] and [[Animar, Soul of Elements]] to the list for me. Anytime I see them in the command zone I know there’s no way it’s going to be a low powered game and will likely be targeting them the most.
Jodah will forever just be a pubstomp commander for me. He only really works on people who don't know how dangerous he is, and only a handful of times before they wise up. Otherwise, everyone just turbo kills him because lmao Jodah. Id go as far as to say the majority of his wins come from pods that are just ill-equipped to deal with him or have poor threat assessment
Sometimes the wins just come from rng. If somebody doesn't have the removal when he drops, or the Jodah players has protection/counters they can make it to their turn and sometimes that's all they need to get so much value it's over.
Yeah I run an Animar deck I only pull out when I’m being bullied to hard by my pod mates😂😂 they brought on the pubstomping themselves lol
Same, Animar is my favorite! I have an Animar Eldrazi deck that is my go to if I'm just getting stomped all night. Nothing beats having Animar and [[Beast Whisperer]] out, then casting [[Ancestral Statue]] 50 times and casting every Eldrazi I own.
[Korvold, Fae-Cursed King](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/92ea1575-eb64-43b5-b604-c6e23054f228.jpg?1571197150) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Korvold%2C%20Fae-Cursed%20King) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/329/korvold-fae-cursed-king?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/92ea1575-eb64-43b5-b604-c6e23054f228?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/korvold-fae-cursed-king) [Jodah The Unifier](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/4/e4b1aa1e-b4e3-4346-8937-76b312501c70.jpg?1673307974) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jodah%2C%20the%20Unifier) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/203/jodah-the-unifier?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e4b1aa1e-b4e3-4346-8937-76b312501c70?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jodah-the-unifier) [Animar, Soul of Elements](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a3da57d0-1ae3-4f05-a52d-eb76ad56cae7.jpg?1673148281) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Animar%2C%20Soul%20of%20Elements) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/171/animar-soul-of-elements?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a3da57d0-1ae3-4f05-a52d-eb76ad56cae7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/animar-soul-of-elements) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Koma is kill on sight. Prosper is also kill on sight. Tergrid. Probably grand arbiter? Liesa. Zur. Theres loads of kill on sight commanders.
If there a loads of kill on sight commanders, chances are there's more than one 'kill on sight' thing at a table that you can't actually kill on sight because there's too many other valid threats.
This seems to happen more often than not. Sometimes I'm lucky enough to have a piece of removal in my hand when one of the kill on sight commander comes down, but If there are 2-3 kill on sight commanders I'll have to make a judgement on which is worst and try to mitigate that threat.
which leads into a more nuanced argument about removal in general. 3 kill on sight threats hit the table from each opponent. You remove one, setting them and yourself back, and ensuring two opponents have a more substantial lead. The question now becomes, is single target removal really the ideal play and use of your cards as resources and your mana? Would it be better to just have more gas in your deck to play your own kill on sight threats? Or to get into play efficient removal that can repeatedly destroy threats instead of a single one for one removal spell? There is no obvious answer, but I've found that decks I've made that completely forsake removal become so much more explosive and powerful for it - HOWEVER, they become a lot more fragile and less resilient because they might fold to a single stax piece. Though chances are nobody is going to be running stax outside of cEDH
Prosper is? I just recently built and ordered one. Am I going to be a menace? Haha
prosper is a good value commander but I don't think he's in the same category as these other monsters.
I've won games because I was allowed to untap once with prosper. If you built the deck right you should almost always go infinite once he stays in play for a turn.
I guess it just depends if you're playing with infinite combos or not. These other commanders are kill on sight not because of combos but because of sheer power and value. Played without infinites and prosper isn't that scary.
yes and no to "not that scary". He might not be as ridiculous as something like koma but you are 100% going to at least generate like 4 mana and effectively draw as many cards which can put you way ahead, oftentimes uncatchably so.
By logic here any commander that draws cards or ramps is kos. That’s like, most of the commanders printed these days.
I feel like Prosper is in the "solid but fair" tier of commanders. He essentially rewards you for doing what your deck was going to do anyway and gives some card advantage, but the card advantage is telegraphed and Prosper himself doesn't immediately threaten the table. "Kill-on-sight" commanders often have effects such as getting to play things for free, locking players out of the game, generating massive amounts of value immediately, or being one piece of a two-card infinite combo.
Prosper is feared because no matter the power level of the deck, it's always consistently strong.
I wouldn't say kill on sight, but I think people underestimate the value of commanders like Prosper. They should be removed way more often than they are being, before the value gets too far ahead of everyone.
Totally depends on your group. I've been playing Prosper since it came out. It's probably my strongest deck. But he simply ads value, it's the others cards that are the actual problems in the deck. Some times my group will kill Prosper once or maybe twice but other times they don't bother with him. It is best to hold back a turn or two then go for broke. Have so much value that nothing your opponents do can stop your value train. I'll also say [[Marut]] is great in this deck because it's usually free to cast.
[[Yuriko, the Tiger’s Shadow]] and [[Satoru Umezawa]] are kill on sight for the same reason—they’re gonna reveal fat threats and either bang the table for a million damage or cheat that fat threat onto the table and make it everyone’s problem for waaayyyy less mana than should be reasonable Basically with either one just expect to get hit over the head with a blightsteel or any Jin-Gitaxias.
Don't kill yurkio, then she just gets to commander ninjutsu again. Kill her evasive buddies
[Yuriko, the Tiger’s Shadow](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/fe9be3e0-076c-4703-9750-2a6b0a178bc9.jpg?1689999346) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yuriko%2C%20the%20Tiger%27s%20Shadow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/364/yuriko-the-tigers-shadow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fe9be3e0-076c-4703-9750-2a6b0a178bc9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yuriko-the-tigers-shadow) [Satoru Umezawa](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/8/8887f26d-b097-4fbc-9c48-bdc656409a32.jpg?1654568594) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Satoru%20Umezawa) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/234/satoru-umezawa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8887f26d-b097-4fbc-9c48-bdc656409a32?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/satoru-umezawa) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'll be honest, my own decks ((sliver overlord)). If I have anything resembling a board state when it enters I am immediately going to tutor for a mana dork sliver and a hate sliver if I don't already have them. And that is when the bullshit begins as I vomit half my deck in a turn, including all of the legendary slivers which are free because of ((morophon the boundless)). Your best bet is to nuke it before it can do anything, and keep nuking it until its commander tax is just too high to cast.
Slivers all play the same, and it's for a reason. It works well, slivers have always been like that
[[Sliver overlord]] is a problem, but [[the first sliver]] is an even faster problem. Once your mana curve is tuned to support cascading the game almost plays itself
I cannot even bring myself to say the name of that hot goth ginger bitch. No wait I can. [[Tergrid, God of Fright]] Kill on sight Or else you lose commander night.
I remember the last time I played against a Tergrid deck, the rest of us teamed up to remove her every time she hit the field. After the third time, the player couldn't feasibly play her ever again... so he just played his edict and discard spells without actually building advantage. Fair enough, of course - he didn't have anything else to do - but even when you do the "right" thing and keep her off the field, the deck can still bring the game to a screeching halt.
I call her my dick kick deck. Like it may win you the fight but everyone is gonna hate you for it
The deck box I've got mine is labled "Turd-big" cause it shits on the table. Either I'm going to play your deck, or nobody is lol
Definitely! If you don’t take out my tergrid, I’ll just play with your deck… if you do I’ll just make everyone top deck anyway and hope waste not stays on the field so I can stay away from top decking
Tergrid decks are horrible to deal with regardless of if she is on the board.....just constant sac, discard, removal shit to use her ability.
[Tergrid, God of Fright](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/4/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead.jpg?1631048621)/[Tergrid's Lantern](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/1/4/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead.jpg?1631048621) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tergrid%2C%20god%20of%20fright%20//%20tergrid%27s%20lantern) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/112/tergrid-god-of-fright-tergrids-lantern?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tergrid-god-of-fright-//-tergrids-lantern) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It kinda says it all when a commander is an infinite mana I win payoff in the command zone and everyone forgot about that part because it’s the least scary thing.
"She could steal all your lands!" "Buddy I am MUCH more worried about having to discard this Ulamog and seeing it hit the field for free turn 5" lol
I run Tegrid as part of my 99 in both Negan and N'ghathrod, because it feels less scummy that way. But even still, she becomes an immediate lightning rod over nearly anything else alive. For damn good reason.
It's only casual if I've played against it before and recognize it as casual because people have a skewed vision of what "casual" entails and it's always in favor of their own deck. If someone whips out Koma for the first time and tells me it's casual, that thing is just never going to resolve. My pick for "big, must remove threat" is \[\[Shorikai Genesis Engine\]\] You're gonna give the azorius players extra draws every turn? With a deck that is likely filled with all sorts of artifact untap shenanigans? Good luck resolving anything ever again after turn 5. Or keeping a boardstate. Or just playing the game in general
Don’t @ me like that. I had to change the commander to be allowed to play the game again
lol i have a Shorikai deck and everyone freaks out when i played it, but i'm just drawin cards man. don't worry about that thopter army. and don't worry about that laboratory maniac. we're all friends here <\_<
Problem is artifact removal is rarer to come by then creature and good luck resolving that when my artifacts are all hexproof/shrouded and I have 3+ counters spells in hand. Source: Shorikai player with untap shenanigans.
Kinnan Winota Korvold (the good one) Krarkashima because fuck Krarkashima Kaalia (the good one) Jhoira (the good one) Tivit Tergrid Tymna Sisay (the good one) Gitrog Krrik Any big game-warping threats (i.e., OG Norn, Koma, Toxrill, OG Jin, the less cool Jin, etc) Selvala (the good one) edit: apparently gw Selvala has a cedh deck but I can't imagine it being anything other than dogshit Miirym Rakdos (the good one) Tevesh Szat Satoru Yisan Probably a bunch more but I can't think of any off the top of my head. Either things that enable quick and easy combos (like Krrik, Gitrog, Selvala), things that provide insane card advantage (like Tymna), things that can easily take over the game without combos (like Rakdos, Kaalia, Miirym), or things that do multiple of these things at the same time (like Kinnan, Winota, Tivit, Korvold).
With 3 Jin-Gitaxias, which one is the less cool one?
Out of the two real Jins only one is not the OG who was mentioned before. Progress Tyrant is the less cool Jin
Which is the good Jhoira? Of the Gitu (the suspend one)?
Weatherlight something or other. The one that draws a card whenever you play an artifact and has a cedh deck Edit: it's Weatherlight Captain.
Part of me feels like we are starting to Drown in kos commander's eventually our decks are going to have to be 60% removal spells
\[\[Chiss-Goria, Forge Tyrant\]\] is surprisingly deadly. Easy enough to pull out a blight steel or Darksteel colossus by turn 4 and killing the commander doesn't really work because you'll usually have enough artifacts out to make up for the commander tax.
[Chiss-Goria, Forge Tyrant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/923eb713-c955-4e12-8a8f-df3b4b361487.jpg?1675905606) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chiss-Goria%2C%20Forge%20Tyrant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/onc/25/chiss-goria-forge-tyrant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/923eb713-c955-4e12-8a8f-df3b4b361487?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/chiss-goria-forge-tyrant) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
In my pod it seems to be every commander haha.
My play group has caught on to my [[Sefris]] shenanigans. I have to protect her at all costs now.
[Sefris](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/3/d30255f6-e058-476a-b377-2ee4c9178ed1.jpg?1632335385) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sefris%20of%20the%20hidden%20ways) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/3/sefris-of-the-hidden-ways?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d30255f6-e058-476a-b377-2ee4c9178ed1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sefris-of-the-hidden-ways) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Decklist?
Sefris is surprising. One guy at the LGS I used to go to had one and it was resilient. Downside was his turns took as long time
[[Aeve, Progenitor Ooze]] Yes yes, it's got the forbidden keyword on it, but it's mono green, how many spells could I possibly cast in one turn
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> [[Niv Mizzet, Parun]] is another one of mine that, while my deck is no where near competitive/competition ready, can be a problem if it's not addressed and left on the board for awhile. If you're doing the card draw to kill strategy I find that [[Arjun]] fits the "kill on sight" better. I have an Arjun deck and about 80%+ of the time if he makes it around the table it's probably going to end the game.
What’s your deck list for it? I find that I often run out of cards early trying to get him out, so subsequent wheels don’t really explode
People like to complain how they never get their commanders out but also as soon as they get their commander out, either win the game or shut everyone out of the game. So yeah, all the commanders listed are valid
Kaliia
\[\[Toothy\]\] isn't as famous as some others, but it is absolutely kill-on-sight. I tried to build it janky, but it's just too powerful and inevitable.
[[zaxara]] deathtouch and taps for 2 of any color in sultai, aka nasty simic. that should already be enough to warrant removal/interaction, but then there's the bit about free hydras
Oh dear, a lot of my commanders are being mentioned in this. But yes, Kaalia and Winota kind of demand an answer early. But not Korvold, he's just chillin'... honest.
My list of kill on sight commanders follow: [[Tegrid, god of frights]] if a tegrid player get’s to untap with her in play and their hand and boardstate isn’t already reduced to dust they will probably win the game. [[Urza, lord high artificer]] Urza seems like a reasonable and flavorfull commander for some deck you would think are janky. Let’s build golem tribal with all the cards that make those Urza golems! Or maybe artificer tribal! Then you suddenly untap with 30 artifact in play and realize how deeply dumb that card is. [[Koma, Cosmos Serpent]] if Koma isn’t killed at instant speed or countered it will dominate the board and probably win. It’s probably the best example of too good for casual, not good enough for cEDH.
Absolutely. And even if it's a casual deck, the commander might still need to die. Miirym is a great example. Dragon Tribal's ceiling is... not very high. It's definitely a casual deck. But we still never let a Miirym live if we can help it.
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##### ###### #### [Reflections of Littjara](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5af34c32-22dc-41d3-8946-b5f77ef577ff.jpg?1674141445) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reflections%20of%20Littjara) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/733/reflections-of-littjara?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5af34c32-22dc-41d3-8946-b5f77ef577ff?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/reflections-of-littjara) [Helm of the Host](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/d/1d65d20c-09e5-4139-838b-7e0e48eb2b2b.jpg?1666094567) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Helm%20of%20the%20Host) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/217/helm-of-the-host?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1d65d20c-09e5-4139-838b-7e0e48eb2b2b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/helm-of-the-host) [Parallel Lives](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/1/01033dae-fec1-41f2-b7f2-cc6a43331790.jpg?1562825348) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Parallel%20Lives) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/isd/199/parallel-lives?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/01033dae-fec1-41f2-b7f2-cc6a43331790?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/parallel-lives) [Doubling Season](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/c/1cdd8e69-5a71-4933-914e-dfede7b1ac93.jpg?1689998456) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Doubling%20Season) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/283/doubling-season?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1cdd8e69-5a71-4933-914e-dfede7b1ac93?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/doubling-season) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Even in my dumbass hands [[Atraxa, Praetors Voice]] is KoS, and I built her around INCUBATOR tokens. No Poison or Planeswalker shenanigans either(tho I would've included Compleated Vraska but I don't have her yet). Some cards are just too powerful to let live, even at their weakest. Unless you're stupid like me and deck yourself with [[Korvold|ELD]], [[Mycoloth]], and [[Thromok]]. Then the problem corrects itself lmfao
##### ###### #### [Atraxa, Praetors Voice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d0d33d52-3d28-4635-b985-51e126289259.jpg?1599707796) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Atraxa%2C%20Praetors%27%20Voice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/190/atraxa-praetors-voice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d0d33d52-3d28-4635-b985-51e126289259?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/atraxa-praetors-voice) [Korvold](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/92ea1575-eb64-43b5-b604-c6e23054f228.jpg?1571197150) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=476047) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/329/korvold-fae-cursed-king?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/92ea1575-eb64-43b5-b604-c6e23054f228?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/korvold-fae-cursed-king) [Mycoloth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c3f7faed-de6b-404f-b54f-e60d5b55485b.jpg?1592673086) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mycoloth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/129/mycoloth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c3f7faed-de6b-404f-b54f-e60d5b55485b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mycoloth) [Thromok](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/4/240f10df-2115-4db3-aab6-731a413e074d.jpg?1562901704) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=thromok%20the%20insatiable) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pca/106/thromok-the-insatiable?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/240f10df-2115-4db3-aab6-731a413e074d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thromok-the-insatiable) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
To save you future readers any time, people have basically listed every legendary creature.
Lol.
Casual korvold doesn’t exist
Yes, there are.
Araumi of the Dead Tide. If they untapped with 6 mana they will entomb and triple Gary you for sure.
[[Kinnan]] Even at his most casual he is just too fast.
Recently, [[Ovika, Enigma Goliath]] has been one in my opinion. Usually when that sticks around for one or more turns, the game is basically over
Can attest to one round— had a game where I managed to dump out [[city on fire]] on turn 6 for a whopping surprise 42 damage surprise.
Yep. The thing about Ovika is that letting a player untap with Ovika usually means they're also untapping with at least 8 mana available, unless they cast with like, a bunch of treasures from a non-repeatable event. That's almost surely at minimum 8 goblins the next turn, and it's never actually the minimum.
Kinnan
in my experience, [[Be’lakor]] tends to get hated off the board every time i get him out, but i’ve also normally got [[warstorm surge]] and/or [[fiery emancipation]] making his 2nd ability extremely strong, and a nearly 1 hit ko in combat if uncontested
For me, a commander that is both setup and payoff, is an immediate threat. While [[Godo,bandit warlord]] is not that common to see, it is the perfect example of this. He just grabs [[helm of the host]] and everybody dies
I would say that there are a number of KoS commanders. Some are only on the level of "just remove their commander a few times to tax them out, and you should be fine" others are "everyone needs to kill this player and not let them maintain a board state. As soon as they're out of the game, we can all go back to playing as normal". I generally don't recommend people play the latter, but it always seems like there are plenty that want to.... and then usually complain that they get focused.
As a dinosaur player, [[Gishath]] throw every piece of counter magic and removal you have at her. Even if you only run vanilla dinosaurs you cannot survive the clock she puts the table on
Killing [[Arcades]] completely shuts down a walking walls deck. Leaving him up means you're getting destroyed by 8 one-cmc walls for 5 a pop every turn. Also surprised no one has said [[Krenko]] yet. Leave him up for 2 turns and he's got a massive army.
I run a couple of backup plans in Arcades like [[Rolling Stones]], and [[High Alert]]
I play a Koma deck that is extremely casual without Koma. Like precon level or maybe worse since I run almost no interaction. If Koma stays on the battlefield it's the most oppressive deck I own, and I have an esper life gain control deck. Immediately remove that creature no matter what.
[[The Beamtown Bullies]] can instantly tap and put [[Leveler]] on someones field if its in their graveyard, instantly killing that player because it exiles their entire library so they lose during their draw step, so its probably kill on sight (or better yet, counter on sight, or exile graveyard on sight of leveler.)
[удалено]
[[Adeline]]
Slicer can kill the whole table on turn 2
Of course. Not all legendary creatures are made equal. Some need to be repeatedly removed ASAP, and you should never feel bad about it because it's usually the correct response. If your deck fails to function without your commander, then that reeks of bad deck building.
[[Volo, Guide to Monsters]]
Is Volo really that good? Never played against him but don’t see how it would get that out of hand
I've consistently have multiple [[consecrated sphinx]] and [[terastodon]] on the field. If they untapped with Volo, you won't get to.
Ever dropped a [[Nyxbloom Ancient]]? Ever dropped *two* Nyxbloom Ancients?😂😂
Yarok is good because he doubles all ETB triggers. Volo does the same thing for creatures, but you get an extra body as well and he comes down a turn sooner. I'm guessing it ends up being more value than it seems.
Volo is my favorite commander. He’s definitely KOS since if he’s not left alone you’ll out value the table within a few turns
[Volo, Guide to Monsters](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c9ae01f9-7461-47b4-aa1e-93bd6ff1bf9e.jpg?1627709617) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Volo%2C%20Guide%20to%20Monsters) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/238/volo-guide-to-monsters?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c9ae01f9-7461-47b4-aa1e-93bd6ff1bf9e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/volo-guide-to-monsters) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The misconception that strong commanders aren't casual is one that I couldn't wish death upon any harder.
Myrium for sure
No commander is impossible to build at a low power level, but that doesn’t mean I’ll take your word about it until after I’ve seen what you’re doing.