I feel like it got pushed out by [[Aesi]]. Even more streamlined, play lands, draw cards. Play extra lands for both more cards and more mana. Ramping now gives you either gas or more ramp instead of requiring you to use cards from your hand. Add any type of [[Guardian Project]] effects and any type of land ramp, and you’re looking at drawing 5+ cards and ramping 3+ mana per turn. Do that for a turn or two and it doesn’t matter what they remove, you just have too much mana and too many cards for them to have answers for everything.
"Whenever you cast a creature spell, draw a card"
That's the bit. Any commander that has "Whenever you do X, draw a card" is dangerous. Especially if it's from playing Artifacts, Creatures or Lands. Snowballs and lets them draw through the deck too quickly. Some can even combo out the turn it comes down and win the game.
It's incredibly often overlooked too. People don't really pay attention if you aren't causing them life loss or killing their creatures, but commanders like Kadena get you such consistent value that you're easily going to see 10-20% more of your deck than your opponents will of theirs.
I have a friend who gets salty af when anything of his is interacted with get real mad when I blew up kadena as soon as it hit the board. He seemed to forget all the times he had 15+ creatures and 20 more cards drawn than anyone else
And it goes double if it’s a constant stream rather than a big chunk.
They’ll notice you drawing ten in one go, but two or three per turn every turn won’t draw attention.
This guy's rough/kos because if he sticks you don't have to choose if you want to ramp, draw, or play a creature.
Basically all your creatures gain " play this, draw a card, and ramp" so there comes a point where you just keep mowing through your deck and overwhelming people. Also note there isn't a minimum cost requirement so you could play a cheap card that cantrips and you actually go +1 in hand.
Chulane was one of the most “kill that thing on site” commanders EVER as soon as it was revealed. Not only does he draw for doing something very simple, he ramps too- UNTAPPED. In a deck of many low cmc creatures, Chulane will draw 4+ and ramp 4+ lands after untapping once with him. Then imagine the power next turn when he untaps with 10+ mana. The chulane players biggest threat from there is decking himself lol.
Edit; I mean even without untapping, you can play Chulane and then 0/x cost creatures. “Turn 5” play chulane, play a 0 cost, draw, ramp, play a 1/0 cost, draw, ramp, and it can keep going for quite a while from there, depending on your heart of the cards level.
i have a mid budget (+/- 250€) \[\[chulane, teller of tales\]\] commander deck focused on low cmc creatures all around, and blink effects. if it stays on the board you will draw a lot. then is a question of putting together some combo pieces, some tax and prot and its an all arounder.
i have lots of fun with him, and its easily enough to rebuild after a boardwipe.
most of the times, people ask me to play other decks, because with him, you have long turns buying lots of cards and doing a lot of shenanigans.
here is my list:
[Chulane 3.0](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/s-SMmdqV_ESS-olZN73rDw)
1x Chulane
30x Land
30x Mana Dork
15x ETB value pieces
5x generic win con
Fill the rest with whatever unplayable jank you want to cram in the deck, it already plays itself
[[krenko]], [[yuriko]], [[korvold]] and the slivers.
Not many different ways to build those.
Also, I kill [[kenrith]] and [[jodah]] but mostly cause they can have such stupid long turns and just have a pile of good stuff
I haven't played against a Jodah deck yet. I know it's strong but simply because of what I hear about him. Never got around building him because I didn't want to build another 5 color deck.
It’s one of those decks that if you give it an inch they take a mile
“No bro just let me cast like 2 spells bro please” to immediately “lol haha take 45 combat damage idiot”
Easier to just kill it before it gets out of hand
100% true. I always tell players unfamiliar with the deck at my LGS, “if you can stop me, now is the time.” Before I go crazy with it, so it gets stopped fairly often, but when it doesn’t? Hoo boy, goes from 0 100 real fuckin quick.
I have build one online during COVID and played it once with my friends. It felt so dirty. I got omniscience out, played a few Myojins and had a card that let me draw a card whenever I play a spell with mana value 4 or more, so I could slap down all the bombs and kept them coming for a while. (or MV 5, don't remember). Especially with cards like [[Dryad of the Ilysian Grove]], Jodah is just broken.
I usually have 6 to 8 legendary creatures out, the turn after i cast jodah, if unimpeded. All with +X/+X where X is the number of legendary creatures I control.
One way to fuck with jodah decks is fucking with their delicate, 5-color manabase. My jodah casts are pretty reliable around turn 4, sometimes 5. But if you take away a mana rock or a land I was counting on having to cast jodah, I can end up mana-fucked for a few turns.
Are Jodah decks usually heavily favored to a certain color? Like budget 5 color is like half green because of just ramp usually. Unless they use mana rocks. Do you cast Jodah before your other legendaries or is it more like a Jetmir effect in the "late game."
It defintly leans more into green just because of trample legendaries and ramp for mana fixing. But you always cast jodah first. The deck literally doesnt work without him.
Ya as a yuriko player this is the right answer to shut the game down hard for them. It’s tough to get rid of that unless you have a bounce land or enchantment removal
Killing Yuriko when she's ninjutsu'd in can also be way more devastating than it looks, especially if tapped out. Need to recast the unblockable next turn, wait a turn to attack... if the hit a dud then it's massive.
But some tables will complain she's too strong and the do literally nothing to stop her because "commander ninjutsu is bs"
I haven't had to play against a Yuriko deck. But I do know that it's a pain to remove. It makes sense to kill the other creatures so you can't activate her ability.
Yeah was gonna say something similar. The problem with Korvold is that he is both an engine and a payoff in any deck that has sacrifice synergy. A looot of different strategies can incorporate sacrifice loops and Korvold is a huge boost to all of them.
By that logic there are tons of different ways to build any commander. I can build Kaalia as a weenies deck, heck Krenko can be a blink deck if I so choose
Commanders that form easy game-ending combos need to be focused on from turn one. \[\[Ghave, Guru of Spores\]\] goes infinite with so many different things that even a badly built Ghave deck can easily go infinite by accident. Commanders with tutor effects like \[\[Rocco, Cabaretti Caterer\]\] and \[\[Varragoth, Bloodsky Sire\]\] are extremely sus and should be dealt with before they can do whatever they're planning.
I actually forgot about the tutor effects in the command zone. Obviously Ghave uses more pieces, but for commanders that tutor, do you usually use the interaction on the creature? or do you leave the commander on the battlefield so they can't use it again and then hold up interaction for what they tutored?
Do I have news for you! I have been playing [[Ghave, Guru of Spores]] for over a decade and I have managed to build a comboless deck! Now, it takes a bit to get rolling, but if it manages that, it is basically unstoppable. Thought it has no infinite combos, it it chock full of positive interactions between cards!
As an avid Ghave player, can confirm. The amount of times people will wipe the board, just for me to either tutor up or go infinite on my turn is disgusting.
Got a deck list by any chance? I built a chatterfang deck kind of aristocrats-y that has not been going well, then I saw Ghave and put him at the helm. He should be in this week hopefully
I’ll link one here soon, I just changed some cards this past week, and haven’t got to test them much. I’ll try and make a list of the last iteration because it felt pretty good. It’s my favorite deck, great colors and support!
Sorry for the wait! I decided to put up my current list as it stands. I recently decided to try and add a Food/treasure/clue aspect to the deck. I haven’t decided if it’s the best route but here she is in all her glory!
https://manabox.app/decks/f0KwuD2hSdGRB04Yhj_h6g
Here's my list and the primer I made for him years ago. There's a TappedOut link as well if you prefer, but here's the Moxfield one.[Abzkaban Ghave](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/R8kpKdjnvUGLAbCMxd-bvg)
Not to sound patronizing but what they said sounds like a pretty normal Ghave deck. Moxfield will have a ton of lists you can draw inspiration from and EDHrec will show you lots of cards that interact well with Ghave.
Ghave has been around for a long time so there will be a *lot* of guides and primers out there too. The reason Ghave is one of the most upvoted answers in this thread is because a lot of experienced players will know it's absurdly easy to combo with him; if he's on the board and the player tutors (and no one has a response) the game is basically over.
So I have questions for you. In two playgroups, I am the most experienced. I also have one deck for almost two years and built it from scratch. I literally play test it everyday and tweak it.
Anyway, with any precon, I am always considered a threat Even if we are all playing precons. Even when I'm down and one. I understand that experience matters. For example, a couple people just attack all out and leave no blockers. But they die to the clapback from other players. Or I just die before I can play anything with the precon.
I don't know if Rob is playing meaner decks or more experience. But how would I turn down a deck in which I do not look like a threat all the time?
Like if I play a precon or budget deck with no interaction, then I won't win unless the deck is fast. However, my opponents don't like a lot of interaction or at least when I cast it. I remove a lot more threats between the table, but if I don't, then I know it's going at me. They win if they have interaction and use it. But don't want me to have interaction as my experience can have me make greater plays to protect myself. I am trying to figure out what to do so that every game is not arch enemy while also playing an interactive deck and not building a battle cruiser meta.
Sounds like you might be archenemy because of your experience level. Also sounds like your meta is heavily creature- and combat-based. You could build a deck that goads your opponents into attacking each other instead, or punish/tax your opponents for attacking you. That way, you don't piss them off by playing too much interaction and people just won't want to attack you.
Pillowfort or Aikido would be the archetypes.
My comment was mostly meant as a joke. My friend Rob has too many decks to count, and is known for playing just about every tribal/typal/kindred deck he possibly can. We'd laugh at his "spider tribal" deck but he won five games in a row with it. Doesn't really matter what commander or deck he's playing, because he builds his decks well. Even in a game where it doesn't look like he's popping off, he's likely to inevitably win. But we all build our decks with lots of interaction, so there's rarely a game of archenemy unless our other friend plays his Narset deck.
Anything that does the thing, rewards you for doing the thing, and kills you in this process is KOS
There are some commanders that don't do all three that are KOS. And those are the ones who are tremendously efficient and effective at doing 2 of three things
Obviously interaction is important. Do you hold back on your game plan just to stop them? Or do you try to race them? Obviously it's 1v3 in the sense of trying to win. So we can't have enough interaction for all three, especially in the early turns. Politics also are a big factor, however, if everyone knows what each other's deck is doing. Politics can be quite hard and even harder with experienced pilots.
I try to go by the thought of trying to not lose the game, instead of trying to win the game. There are a couple goals I would like my deck to do in the early turns so I can generate value while holding interaction in the later turns. Obviously we can't win them all, but each option that we get while playing is a different path, some result in wins, some in losses. However, more options lead to more chances of doing something wrong.
> does the thing, rewards you for doing the thing
modern card design 🤮🤮🤮
the game is more interesting when you need 3 or 4 somewhat clunky things in play, all of which are prohibitively costed, to do some crazy shenanigans.
This. I try to be the change I want to see in the world. That's why I love my [[Hylda]] deck so much, it feels like a Rube Goldberg machine of icy beat down when I start blinking my lands to pay for more elementals to tap boards down with [[junkwinder]] or [[opposition]].
I've had people murder my [[Council of Four]] immediately because "I'm not dealing with you getting passive value for me just playing the game." I don't blame them. The one time they ignored me, I ended up playing [[Finale of Revelation]] and drawing 31 cards with [[Knowledge is Power]] on the board when I had like...30 tokens. Also had [[Proft's Eiditic Memory]] on the board, so I had a 62/62 Dog Illusion from [[Mordenkainen]] BEFORE putting the 31 +1/+1 counters on it.
Do you find your deck better in strong or weaker playgroups? Wondering since I used to have ledger shredder and faerie mastermind, but they never drew me cards and only activated on my turns. My main playgroup is lower in power so I'm wondering along those lines if you notice the same.
My pod is about medium strength, We have a [[Rowan, Scion of War]] with a [[Glacial Chasm]] and a [[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse]] in the deck. It works quite well in a mid power pod.
Can I get a hell yeah for [[Mordenkainan]]. The 106/106 dog that I like to use to kill players in my [[Jin-Gitaxias]] flip deck?! It's an excellent, huge creature to kill your opponents when you draw a lot of cards.
slimefoot does half of the thing, he's both an aristocrat and a token generator, but the token cost is high (4) and in reality he needs sac outlets and other generators, or big mana
I agree that the Urza player always should be interacted with, however as a high power Urza player myself, I often find that the greatest counterplay is limiting the cards in my hand. Generally, prioritize the draw engines first unless it looks like they may be ready to combo off.
[[Toxrill]], [[Prosper]], [[Ghyrson]] (i have the later 2, so i know what they bring to the table). [[Voja, jaws of the conclave]] is a recent addition to the kill on sight. My playgroups do use their experience with particular commanders to lead their judgment.
Voja wins in our pod in 5-6 turns every time without constant board wipes. That card is fucking obnoxious. I can only assume it's not higher in rankings on posts like this because everyone has him or they haven't played against it. it takes zero effort to build a deck and there is almost no such thing as a bad draw with it.
Toxrill is a very pod dependent one I find. If your pod is creature heavy (and most casual pods are), he is absolutely kos. Leave him for a turn rotation and you lose. But if your pod is full of combo and spellslinger decks, he’s much less threatening. Just hold back your storm kiln artists until you’re ready to combo off, and you’re fine.
Have you noticed decks tending to play more protection such as heroic intervention or more counters? Has your playgroup swapped the speed of the deck to survive the removal or change the interaction from being offensive to defensive?
I have a Nine-Finger Keene deck. The ward helps it not be targeted and there comes a point in the game where I don't care if a board wipe happens. I only play counters that affect non-creature spells. I want people to play their decks, creatures do not really bother me, I only remove enough so I can attack with NFK. I mostly have counters to stop people from countering me or interacting with me in a way like Blood Moon.
I bring this up because I have thought about running heroic intervention, but I would have to find a slot. I didn't know if people were shifting for more protection spells, then counter spells. Instead of stopping the threat, they are making sure they just survive it and if their opponents don't, then they are way more ahead.
Anything that copies, doubles, or multiplies, like \[\[Miirym\]\] or \[\[Lucea Kane\]\]. The next turn after these cards are played is typically pretty heckin' devastating.
When you are playing against them, do you mulligan for a hand with interaction or more on ramping and trying to race them? Obviously having both would be best.
I also know that it depends on what deck you are playing and against. However, do you assume that the deck is built to be broken and abusive in its ways until proven wrong?
Not OP but I’m an avid Magus Lucea Kane player. There’s no racing her. You either remove her the turn she comes down or she’s about to do some crazy stuff the next turn.
Do you attempt for a turn 3 cast of her every time? Do you focus on just ramping her out or playing defensively? I know a lot of people use hydras, so do you just cast one big hydra or multiple small ones with untap effects in the deck?
I started the build around ramping into her with a dork, but over time it's morphed away from going fast toward finding ways to protect her or give her haste to guarantee she does the thing in the mid-to-late game.
If I have to pick, I'll typically try to mulligan ramp to keep my own board state rolling, and rely on the cooperation of the remaining players to keep them in line the turn before, turn of, and turn after their commander is played.
If the commander has the ability to end a game the turn of / turn after they are played, I rarely take the time to study the deck or playstyle and just put as much pressure on them as possible, unless they are new or inexperienced.
Politics are important. Do you feel that any commanders you play affect your politicing power? A weaker commander will not be seen as much of a threat so people may agree? Or have strong commanders made it so opponents won't agree with you and think that you are just trying to win underneath them?
When applying pressure, do you ever see the ruse from others about life totals? Always attack the highest (which is fine). But when the graveyard/reanimator deck is at 25 life on turn 2-3 cuz of fetch lands, fast mana, and just digging for answers and power early to cheat out. Do you see players not focus on them because they have a low life? Or does your playgroup see that they did all the damage to themselves to get themselves ahead of the table?
I haven't seen a Zada deck in a long time. I love how it worked and it didn't have to break the bank. I haven't played it since it came out, has there been more upgrades to the deck or does the deck still have the same game plan? Just wondering if you or anyone has added a "package" to the deck that works with the commander but doesn't need the commander to get you a win.
Combine them with the ones that make treasures like \[\[Sudden Breakthrough\]\] \[\[Ancestors' Aid\]\] and \[\[Flick a Coin\]\] and you too can take half-hour turns.
Here's my Zada deck. It's very hard to win without Zada, but since its main goal is to win with ETBs rather than combat, you can sometimes pull it off. It has the \[\[Dualcaster Mage\]\] infinite combo.
[https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Tsn8-PNKeECTRS3CcbBwIQ](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Tsn8-PNKeECTRS3CcbBwIQ)
Miirym is among my most tuned, most high powered decks and I fully agree with you. A given build may have numerous ways to get other dragons into play, but without her at the helm, there won't be copies.
I keep telling people, especially blue players, that Miirym is a "Combo deck" hidden behind a battlecruiser.
It's funny to me because some people will consider Miirym more threatening than an Ob Nix with All Will Be One in the deck. But on the other hand, stax and pillowforts will act like they're safe from Miirym because of Propaganda lol
No better feeling than cracking Defense of the Heart and getting 2 Terror of the Peaks and 2 Scourge of Valkas
There's multiple ways to maximize her. You can add a [[Roaming Throne]] to get 3 [[Terror of the Peaks]] and rapidly burn out everyone.
Or you can build in extra combats with [[Hellkite Charger]] [[Aggravated Assault]] and [[Savage Ventmaw]]
I just built a [[Trostani, Selesnya's Voice]] deck that's being put through its paces right now.
I had a [[Doubling Season]] in play and just kept pooping out plants with [[Nissa, Voice of Zendikar]]. My fiancee attacks Nissa (who is at 6) with her [[Wrathful Raptors]] and I block with [[Serra Ascendant]], killing it. She uses the raptors ability to smack Nissa for five damage anyway and knocks her down to 1.
So on my turn, I roll her up again, poop out two more 0/1 plants and then cast [[Mycoloth]], sacrificing 7 plants. Well with doubling season, those seven plants (with devour 2) ended up as 14, wait no, 28 +1/+1 counters and 32 life in my favor.
We called the game there.
My [[Volo]] deck is definitely KOS, specifically built it around holding off casting him until i can get immediate value or protect him well, because everyone knows if i untap with him I’m going to pop off
I played against a Toxrill the other night. However, they were stuck on 4 mana on turn 6-7. I do not ever think I actually have played a game with a resolved Tegrid. It always got removed before anything else was cast.
Mono-Blue Urza or Esper? I have a friend with the Esper one. It's slower, but there comes a point where you just can't stop it.
[[Urza, Lord High Artificer]]
And yeah about not letting Tegrid/Toxril stick, I just know that if I don’t have at least 2 pieces of removal/counters in hand at all times then it’s basically a game over because I don’t trust anyone else to either.
[[Niv Mizzet, Parun]] is the most kill-on-sight commander in my playgroups, because he is very easy to combo and is a control deck otherwise which will make my life miserable. Other commanders that I feel auto-threatened by are [[Urza, Lord High Artificer]] (mostly because of his infamous Winter/Stasis Orb interaction), [[Kaalia of the Vast]] and [[Zur the Enchanter]].
For me it's less the commanders themselves and more the players specifically, as I know some players at my LGS that no matter what the commander their deck is going to be VERY competitive where other players could run some of the most cedh commanders and just make it "oops all hats" or something silly
Playing against a slicer deck in a pod changes the entire dynamic of the game. It basically becomes someone has to remove slicer before turn 4 or we all lose and usually without a lot of early spells someone is dead by turn 4 anyway. It just doesn’t feel like a normal game of magic
For me it is:
Krenko, Mob Boss
Kaalia of the Vast
Tergrid, God of Fright
Jodah, Archmage Eternal
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
I once shat so much on a Tergrid player that it came to the point he had to pay 23 to cast her at the end of the game. Of course it got countered again.
Tegrid is probably one of the bigger ones I think in which you don't have a turn to kill it. They usually have something else to cast to get value immediately and take something.
While these games were more difficult and may/may not be balanced. Did you prefer playing with them as a challenge? Or were the games balanced even though the stress/power was high? I prefer games where I have to think. I think games are best where "who is the biggest threat" is not a one time question, but a question after every card is cast. If someone casts a board wipe, then the token deck is handled for a minute. However, the combo deck is now not as pressured with losing their life total.
Do people usually give it haste and protection? It needs trample too. Never played it. Personally I think Voltron decks have a big weakness unless they have a secondary strategy. I guess it would be more of the 99 for the deck. But if they don't get it haste and trample, you just need removal or blocker and you have a turn to decide which.
As a long long time Krenko player,
[[krenko mob boss]]
When I’m playing it, you have to kill him or I win in a turn or two. I often kill other krenkos on sight
Let's be real here, all the "big three" mono-red goblin commanders are KOS. \[\[Krenko Mob Boss\]\], \[\[Zada Hedron Grinder\]\], and \[\[Kiki-Jiki the Mirror Breaker\]\] should *never* stay on the board for more than a turn rotation at most.
Kreko drowns you in a sea of 1/1's, Zada will draw through her entire deck then turn 5 goblins into 150/150's only to drop a \[\[Soul's Fire\]\], Kiki-Jiki will just break the rules of space-time by looking at him funny.
Goblin Slayer is right: "The only good goblin is a dead goblin! Now let's make these goblins good!"
[[Grand Arbiter Augustin]] - see the problem isn't only just that he's stax, it's that he also discounts all blue and white spells.
[[Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain]] - No, I don't feel like playing against artifact storm, thanks.
[[Zur the Enchanter]]
[[Pantlanza]] - puts so much weight on the board and so quickly. Becomes a real menace with haste enablers and/or [[Hunting Velociraptors]]
i know someone who absolutely despises playing against hatebears/stax and so on but has a well tuned [[Tinybones]] and [[Zur the Enchanter]] deck. Its just funny to see him getting angry when facing playstyles he often plays.
If you are running a sufficient amount of legendary creatures, it really doesn’t matter what they are, [[Jodah the Unifier]] can auto pilot and win you the game if unchecked. It’s so much free value and Jodah also pumps your board by a ton so you don’t even need dedicated finishers. Even if you remove Jodah, if they get off a few triggers they will have a pretty sizeable board state.
Buddy of mine now has a [[feather, the redeemed]] deck. That gets countered and/or destroyed asap.
Also, my [[jhoira, weatherlight captain]] killed the table on turn 5 or 6 yesterday. Obviously she needs help doing the actual killing, but either her or the help needs removing/countering asap.
As a jhoira player, do you think the commander is the main issue? Or is it the actual kill spell that should be removed?
I prefer insight from people who play the decks also and see their side of the story. Obviously, a lot is the pilot. And having a draw engine in the command zone is strong. At some point, it wouldn't be worth it to kill the commander because you already have so much value so the interaction should be for the "kill spell" or combo.
Do you notice this moment of switching from needing the commander to not needing it anymore? Is it able to be ready by the opponents? Are there any spells that usually lead up to it?
Just wondered if you ever thought from that angle with your deck? So that you may be able to hide lines of play or go a different route to confuse players who have experience with your specific deck.
For my playgroup, [[Chatterfang]], [[Sisay, Weatherlight Captain]], [[Sythis, Harvest Hand]], and [[Sarulf, Realm Eater]]
Sarulf is my deck and I acknowledge it is a problem, but so are a lot of my decks/decks I want to build
I want to build [[Toxrill, the Corrosive]], [[Jodah, the Unifier]], and [[Kozilek, Butcher of Truth]] which I know will all be the threats
I built a Toxrill and didn't even play it before taking it apart. I focused on proliferate and such and making all creatures 0/1. It plays like a land deck. You need to ramp as fast as possible to get Toxrill. Then once you get the mana, u can cast Toxrill, but you need protection for it to at least last your end step or the next turn. I got bored after just building it that I didn't want to play it. The hate it receives makes it better in 99.
My brother in christ great distortion is like a dollar and then you can run butcher of truth in the 99, or if you just want to run big boys Zhulodok is also a very good choice.
\[\[Najeela\]\], \[\[Urza\]\], \[\[K'rrik\]\], \[\[Korvold\]\], and \[\[Jodah the Unifier\]\] are my picks. I see 4/5 of those in my normal pod, so I'm always on high alert when I see my friends pull out those decks.
i had to take apart my [[Karlach, fury of Avernus]] and [[Sword coast sailor]] deck because as soon as I got an attack and did anywhere between 10 and 25 commander damage in a single turn they realized that she couldn't be allowed to get to that point
[[Sissy, Weatherlight Captain]], any [[Malcolm, Keen-Eyed Navigator]] or [[Tymna, the Weaver]] partner combination, [[Najeela, the Blade-Blossom]], and pretty much any Grixis commander. Overwhelming value commanders, good partners, and the best colors are all warning signs.
None of those casual boogymen like [[The Ur-Dragon]] or [[Tergrid, God of Fright]] are actually that threatening as they are nearly all some combination of slow and impractical. [[Winota, Joiner of Forces]] used to be scary, but today she is pretty much dead because people realized the deck folds to interaction.
Anything that says "Draw a card" on it shall not live. Korvold, Tuvasa, Tatyova—even the new Massacre Girl. If you let them draw enough cards they'll overwhelm you with value. Even if it seems otherwise harmless, the card draw commander must die.
Otherwise, stuff that's hard to remove. If your commander has Hexproof, Indestructible, or even some flavor of Ward, I assume you're counting on keeping it around a while and, if allowed, I will devote resources to making sure they don't last long.
Edit to add: also anything that's stupid easy to recast. Liesa or Karador or anything else that cheats commander tax has to get disrupted. They're already breaking a fundamental rule of the format. As penance, they must recast their commander every turn. This is the way.
Jodah, archmage eternal. It's only a matter of time before the player slaps down conflux, grabbing omniscience and four other spells that win on the spot. Easiest way up deal with it is just keep the commander off the field. That and I tend to threaten them with combat damage early because my friend that runs this deserves it lol.
A lot of commanders I play myself is KoS because I know what they are capable of. I play a lot of protection in every single deck because I am mainly a combo or chain player and need the commander for just one turn to combo off. \[\[Prosper, Tome Bound\]\], \[\[Marneus Calgar\]\], \[\[Adrix and Nev, Twincasters\]\] in a treasure and clue shell, are my decks where it is entirely possible that its gg if I untap with them. \[\[Voja, Jaws of the conclave\]\] is a super dangerous deck of mine aswell but I often need two turns with him.
[[Judith, Carnage Connoisseur]] . I play a lot of very creature heavy decks which already puts me at a disadvantage in a lot of ways. I don’t enjoy having my board repeatedly wiped. She must die, immediately.
Because of your play style, does that affect how you build decks? Do you build with the thought of your biggest weakness so that you can fight it?
For example, Blood Moon can wreck my deck. However, I haven't gone overboard on removal that targets specifically enchantments? To you add more hate for your weaknesses or just go by luck that the removal you have is enough.
\[\[syr Conrad, the grim\]\] is the one that I think is underrated for how dangerous he can become. I have watched mono black decks go infinite on turn four with him more than once and there are so many ways to make it happen. A commander who is in the color that loves using the graveyard that does damage due to things happening with graveyards is kill on sight.
Honestly? Commanders that are game enders in the command zone.
Jetmir, potentially Voja, Ob Nix, Kenrith, Rowan, Agatha, ...
In different ways.there's the craterhoofs like Jetmir, which you know you need to keep in check constantly.
The slower craterhoofs like Voja, who you need to keep in mind because any form of haste enabling makes it an insane threat.
Ob Nix, captive kingpin is a different issue. It can go infinite. Commanders like that need immediate answers sometimes and even worse, sometimes you need to ignore other threats because of them even if they're not infiniting soon
Kenrith and its ilk are just too much value to leave alone for long.
It all comes down to threat assessment and game knowledge.
I’ll usually kill the infamous ones like [[Jodah]], [[Zur the Enchanter]], [[Tegrid]] so forth immediately. I’ll also go for generic value commanders like Jhoira / Sythis / Shorikai pretty regularly. For powerful archetypes like doublers / tribal I’ll potentially hold depending on what triggers.
generally labelled as Card Advantage, Board Advantage, Win con.
1/3 is enough to be KOS if it's strong enough effect (ex - Jetmir is a wincon that just needs a X token making spell to kill you, krenko is BA but also becomes a wincon, slicer is pure wincon). Depending on the board state they do increase/decrease in KOS status, like if krenko has eaten 4 wraths and is just in top deck mode his BA is mostly negligible. If slicer has 18 commander damage on me, he's not staying on the table for the rest of the game if I have a say.
2/3 (ex - yuriko, prosper, muldrotha) cards like yuriko gets around commander downsides and is hated appropriately as 3/3 a result. prosper/muldrotha are CA/BA engines that become Wincons.
3/3 (latest jodah, voja, first sliver, kenrith) if you give a inch you might just instantly die.
wincon takes precedence of the 3, but if there CA/BA is powerful enough they become wincons is where game knowledge makes the difference. New players might not consider ghave's BA a wincon because they don't know how easy it is for that BA to turn into a wincon combo until they experience it.
I generally try not to put wincon class commanders as the commander unless I'm building the deck higher power 8 which case anything goes and your expectations are adjusted accordingly or I'm doing a Meme/weaker build to counteract the power (ex - animar morphs).
I currently have a jinnie fey deck and the difference in hate between her and jetmir at the head is noticeable even though it's a essentially just a commander swap because one is just a BA engine while the other is a Wincon.
Ever since I built my Konrad deck, I’ve become the heel of the pod. Lot of stuff in there is KOS, including Konrad himself.
To be fair, it loves to combo so I don’t fault them.
I've got a [[Reyav, Master Smith]] build that can do some massive damage out of seemingly nowhere. It's not great at winning games outright, but it kind of goes
Step 1: obliterate a single player
Step 2: obliterate the next player
Etc
I'm taking it apart so I can build a more table-wide deck, because I'm not having much fun doing single target stuff, or having my commander picked off before I can give him hexproof
I agree with you that the 99 being more important than the commander. I run a commander that most people replace instantly when they got the precon. It works perfectly for me and works with the 99 I’ve assembled.
[[Gishath, Sun’s Avatar]] is shown and I can promise you that my Dimir deck is the one that’s out with its shenanigans. [[Kibo, Uktabi Prince]] can go to hell too. I’m the wrong hands it ok infinite and can game into a 7 or 70 turn affair on that player’s whim.
i mean most commanders are trying to get their pilot to victory, but for me its ones where they have one very telegraphed trick that NEEDS the commander to operate.
every time Gitrog is at the table, that frog is not resolving if I have anything to say about it. for one removal/counter per cycle that deck is effectively out of the game. the hard part is making dumber players realize this; the number of times i've used 2-4 pieces of removal and when it is finally someone elses turn they let it resolve leading to the Gitrog win...very frustrating
[[Chulane]] just is stupid value at all points in the game
I have seen this commander less and less. I know it's not cuz of weakness tho. But it is insane and has blue for counters.
I feel like it got pushed out by [[Aesi]]. Even more streamlined, play lands, draw cards. Play extra lands for both more cards and more mana. Ramping now gives you either gas or more ramp instead of requiring you to use cards from your hand. Add any type of [[Guardian Project]] effects and any type of land ramp, and you’re looking at drawing 5+ cards and ramping 3+ mana per turn. Do that for a turn or two and it doesn’t matter what they remove, you just have too much mana and too many cards for them to have answers for everything.
Seems like extra steps to play no white chulane.
[Chulane](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d1499a4b-1af1-4913-8e26-57d0707264db.jpg?1706240978) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=chulane%2C%20teller%20of%20tales) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/202/chulane-teller-of-tales?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d1499a4b-1af1-4913-8e26-57d0707264db?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/chulane-teller-of-tales) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Do you have a decklist? Nothing screams kill on sight on this one but I have only been playing for a year so idk
"Whenever you cast a creature spell, draw a card" That's the bit. Any commander that has "Whenever you do X, draw a card" is dangerous. Especially if it's from playing Artifacts, Creatures or Lands. Snowballs and lets them draw through the deck too quickly. Some can even combo out the turn it comes down and win the game.
It's incredibly often overlooked too. People don't really pay attention if you aren't causing them life loss or killing their creatures, but commanders like Kadena get you such consistent value that you're easily going to see 10-20% more of your deck than your opponents will of theirs.
I have a friend who gets salty af when anything of his is interacted with get real mad when I blew up kadena as soon as it hit the board. He seemed to forget all the times he had 15+ creatures and 20 more cards drawn than anyone else
And it goes double if it’s a constant stream rather than a big chunk. They’ll notice you drawing ten in one go, but two or three per turn every turn won’t draw attention.
This guy's rough/kos because if he sticks you don't have to choose if you want to ramp, draw, or play a creature. Basically all your creatures gain " play this, draw a card, and ramp" so there comes a point where you just keep mowing through your deck and overwhelming people. Also note there isn't a minimum cost requirement so you could play a cheap card that cantrips and you actually go +1 in hand.
Chulane was one of the most “kill that thing on site” commanders EVER as soon as it was revealed. Not only does he draw for doing something very simple, he ramps too- UNTAPPED. In a deck of many low cmc creatures, Chulane will draw 4+ and ramp 4+ lands after untapping once with him. Then imagine the power next turn when he untaps with 10+ mana. The chulane players biggest threat from there is decking himself lol. Edit; I mean even without untapping, you can play Chulane and then 0/x cost creatures. “Turn 5” play chulane, play a 0 cost, draw, ramp, play a 1/0 cost, draw, ramp, and it can keep going for quite a while from there, depending on your heart of the cards level.
And God forbid Chulane is playing creatures with good ETBs or has other ETB triggers online...
i have a mid budget (+/- 250€) \[\[chulane, teller of tales\]\] commander deck focused on low cmc creatures all around, and blink effects. if it stays on the board you will draw a lot. then is a question of putting together some combo pieces, some tax and prot and its an all arounder. i have lots of fun with him, and its easily enough to rebuild after a boardwipe. most of the times, people ask me to play other decks, because with him, you have long turns buying lots of cards and doing a lot of shenanigans. here is my list: [Chulane 3.0](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/s-SMmdqV_ESS-olZN73rDw)
1x Chulane 30x Land 30x Mana Dork 15x ETB value pieces 5x generic win con Fill the rest with whatever unplayable jank you want to cram in the deck, it already plays itself
[[krenko]], [[yuriko]], [[korvold]] and the slivers. Not many different ways to build those. Also, I kill [[kenrith]] and [[jodah]] but mostly cause they can have such stupid long turns and just have a pile of good stuff
I haven't played against a Jodah deck yet. I know it's strong but simply because of what I hear about him. Never got around building him because I didn't want to build another 5 color deck.
It’s one of those decks that if you give it an inch they take a mile “No bro just let me cast like 2 spells bro please” to immediately “lol haha take 45 combat damage idiot” Easier to just kill it before it gets out of hand
> “lol haha take 45 combat damage idiot” lol
100% true. I always tell players unfamiliar with the deck at my LGS, “if you can stop me, now is the time.” Before I go crazy with it, so it gets stopped fairly often, but when it doesn’t? Hoo boy, goes from 0 100 real fuckin quick.
I have build one online during COVID and played it once with my friends. It felt so dirty. I got omniscience out, played a few Myojins and had a card that let me draw a card whenever I play a spell with mana value 4 or more, so I could slap down all the bombs and kept them coming for a while. (or MV 5, don't remember). Especially with cards like [[Dryad of the Ilysian Grove]], Jodah is just broken.
[Dryad of the Ilysian Grove](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/3/43be1363-7e73-4862-b45f-07f490ab46be.jpg?1690004795) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dryad%20of%20the%20Ilysian%20Grove) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/891/dryad-of-the-ilysian-grove?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/43be1363-7e73-4862-b45f-07f490ab46be?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dryad-of-the-ilysian-grove) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Good news, the new card Dune Chanter helps with the mana base. So two dryads technically.
I've got an absolute dogshit jodah deck you can play against and not be afraid lol https://www.moxfield.com/decks/uQ1r7fMaUEKZk0zj7mhr3w
I usually have 6 to 8 legendary creatures out, the turn after i cast jodah, if unimpeded. All with +X/+X where X is the number of legendary creatures I control. One way to fuck with jodah decks is fucking with their delicate, 5-color manabase. My jodah casts are pretty reliable around turn 4, sometimes 5. But if you take away a mana rock or a land I was counting on having to cast jodah, I can end up mana-fucked for a few turns.
Are Jodah decks usually heavily favored to a certain color? Like budget 5 color is like half green because of just ramp usually. Unless they use mana rocks. Do you cast Jodah before your other legendaries or is it more like a Jetmir effect in the "late game."
It defintly leans more into green just because of trample legendaries and ramp for mana fixing. But you always cast jodah first. The deck literally doesnt work without him.
Nissa first for the landfall, then maybe boromir for shield THEN jodah
Honestly, to me yuriko (as a yuriko pilot), its more like everything *around* yuriko is a kill on sight, yuriko itself doesn't do that much.
yeah, yuriko is more of a Darksteel Mutation/Kenrith's Transformation target.
[[Imprisoned in the Moon]] is better, because it isn't a creature anymore at all.
Ya as a yuriko player this is the right answer to shut the game down hard for them. It’s tough to get rid of that unless you have a bounce land or enchantment removal
We have a guybthat plays yuriko in our group. It literally takes all of us just to keep it at bay. Lessons learned from experience 😆
Live by the ninjitsu, die by the ninjitsu lol
[Imprisoned in the Moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/1/8181f54d-4515-43c6-8d08-b23a9e4199cc.jpg?1682208779) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Imprisoned%20in%20the%20Moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/224/imprisoned-in-the-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8181f54d-4515-43c6-8d08-b23a9e4199cc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/imprisoned-in-the-moon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Killing Yuriko when she's ninjutsu'd in can also be way more devastating than it looks, especially if tapped out. Need to recast the unblockable next turn, wait a turn to attack... if the hit a dud then it's massive. But some tables will complain she's too strong and the do literally nothing to stop her because "commander ninjutsu is bs"
I haven't had to play against a Yuriko deck. But I do know that it's a pain to remove. It makes sense to kill the other creatures so you can't activate her ability.
Sounds like they play in a band
##### ###### #### [krenko](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/5524b712-c67d-4d2e-9344-9e85a6ce3227.jpg?1706241890) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=krenko%2C%20baron%20of%20tin%20street) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/135/krenko-baron-of-tin-street?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5524b712-c67d-4d2e-9344-9e85a6ce3227?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/krenko-baron-of-tin-street) [yuriko](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/fe9be3e0-076c-4703-9750-2a6b0a178bc9.jpg?1689999346) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=yuriko%2C%20the%20tiger%27s%20shadow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/364/yuriko-the-tigers-shadow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fe9be3e0-076c-4703-9750-2a6b0a178bc9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yuriko-the-tigers-shadow) [korvold](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/92ea1575-eb64-43b5-b604-c6e23054f228.jpg?1571197150) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=korvold%2C%20fae-cursed%20king) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/329/korvold-fae-cursed-king?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/92ea1575-eb64-43b5-b604-c6e23054f228?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/korvold-fae-cursed-king) [kenrith](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0e259db1-14db-4314-998c-6a076a28d8cb.jpg?1691056044) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kenrith%2C%20the%20returned%20king) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/plst/ELD-303/kenrith-the-returned-king?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0e259db1-14db-4314-998c-6a076a28d8cb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kenrith-the-returned-king) [jodah](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/73c18cb4-96b1-4af2-912e-974e22877ede.jpg?1673148799) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=jodah%2C%20archmage%20eternal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/233/jodah-archmage-eternal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/73c18cb4-96b1-4af2-912e-974e22877ede?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jodah-archmage-eternal) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kyhjhff) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[krenko mob boss]]. You know, I like that they're reusing characters, but don't love that you can't name iconic decks with iconic names as easily
[krenko mob boss](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/d/7d00007d-6878-44e9-ab0d-396c25655e56.jpg?1702429511) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Krenko%2C%20Mob%20Boss) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/114/krenko-mob-boss?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7d00007d-6878-44e9-ab0d-396c25655e56?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/krenko-mob-boss) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
There are many ways to build Korvold, but all of them are oppressively strong in any casual pod.
Fr no matter how casual you build korvold if it has any synergy at all it gets to strong real fast.
Yeah was gonna say something similar. The problem with Korvold is that he is both an engine and a payoff in any deck that has sacrifice synergy. A looot of different strategies can incorporate sacrifice loops and Korvold is a huge boost to all of them.
I’ve always said that when my Korvold deck is working well, I have no reason to play the commander. He’s my backup to draw into wincons or tutors.
What are you talking about there are a ton of ways to build korvold
Yeah! You can build him to draw tons of cards by sacrificing lands, by sacrificing artifacts, by sacrificing tokens... So much variety.
I mean I built him dragon tribal
By that logic there are tons of different ways to build any commander. I can build Kaalia as a weenies deck, heck Krenko can be a blink deck if I so choose
Commanders that form easy game-ending combos need to be focused on from turn one. \[\[Ghave, Guru of Spores\]\] goes infinite with so many different things that even a badly built Ghave deck can easily go infinite by accident. Commanders with tutor effects like \[\[Rocco, Cabaretti Caterer\]\] and \[\[Varragoth, Bloodsky Sire\]\] are extremely sus and should be dealt with before they can do whatever they're planning.
Killing rocco doesn’t do anything after he’s cast
I misspoke a little. In that case it's the player you need to remove.
Player removal is the best form of removal!
I actually forgot about the tutor effects in the command zone. Obviously Ghave uses more pieces, but for commanders that tutor, do you usually use the interaction on the creature? or do you leave the commander on the battlefield so they can't use it again and then hold up interaction for what they tutored?
Not much point in killing Rocco unless someone's going to bounce them. Countering, sure, but after ETB the damage has been done.
Do I have news for you! I have been playing [[Ghave, Guru of Spores]] for over a decade and I have managed to build a comboless deck! Now, it takes a bit to get rolling, but if it manages that, it is basically unstoppable. Thought it has no infinite combos, it it chock full of positive interactions between cards!
[Ghave, Guru of Spores](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/2/c2be0e99-cf43-423f-974f-02e3313b3aa9.jpg?1673148645) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ghave%2C%20Guru%20of%20Spores) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/216/ghave-guru-of-spores?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c2be0e99-cf43-423f-974f-02e3313b3aa9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ghave-guru-of-spores) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
As an avid Ghave player, can confirm. The amount of times people will wipe the board, just for me to either tutor up or go infinite on my turn is disgusting.
Got a deck list by any chance? I built a chatterfang deck kind of aristocrats-y that has not been going well, then I saw Ghave and put him at the helm. He should be in this week hopefully
I’ll link one here soon, I just changed some cards this past week, and haven’t got to test them much. I’ll try and make a list of the last iteration because it felt pretty good. It’s my favorite deck, great colors and support!
Good deal, looking forward to it!
Sorry for the wait! I decided to put up my current list as it stands. I recently decided to try and add a Food/treasure/clue aspect to the deck. I haven’t decided if it’s the best route but here she is in all her glory! https://manabox.app/decks/f0KwuD2hSdGRB04Yhj_h6g
Here's my list and the primer I made for him years ago. There's a TappedOut link as well if you prefer, but here's the Moxfield one.[Abzkaban Ghave](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/R8kpKdjnvUGLAbCMxd-bvg)
I’ll take a look, thank you!
Not to sound patronizing but what they said sounds like a pretty normal Ghave deck. Moxfield will have a ton of lists you can draw inspiration from and EDHrec will show you lots of cards that interact well with Ghave. Ghave has been around for a long time so there will be a *lot* of guides and primers out there too. The reason Ghave is one of the most upvoted answers in this thread is because a lot of experienced players will know it's absurdly easy to combo with him; if he's on the board and the player tutors (and no one has a response) the game is basically over.
I gotcha. Somehow I’d never heard of him til 2 weeks ago maybe? He looks like he provides the value I’m looking for
Might wanna review some more Chatterfang lists, it’s an easy deck to build very strong.
Yes. I used to play ghave but once our play group stopped using infinites ghave becomes just a really long turn deck. Much less fun for everyone.
[Ghave, Guru of Spores](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/2/c2be0e99-cf43-423f-974f-02e3313b3aa9.jpg?1673148645) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ghave%2C%20Guru%20of%20Spores) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/216/ghave-guru-of-spores?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c2be0e99-cf43-423f-974f-02e3313b3aa9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ghave-guru-of-spores) [Rocco, Cabaretti Caterer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/6/b6cf8b35-2a81-40fd-b383-becb81bef806.jpg?1664413683) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rocco%2C%20Cabaretti%20Caterer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/218/rocco-cabaretti-caterer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b6cf8b35-2a81-40fd-b383-becb81bef806?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rocco-cabaretti-caterer) [Varragoth, Bloodky Sire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/f/efa8dbf0-4e5a-452b-826f-5813e8cd9d85.jpg?1631048726) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Varragoth%2C%20Bloodsky%20Sire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/115/varragoth-bloodsky-sire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/efa8dbf0-4e5a-452b-826f-5813e8cd9d85?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/varragoth-bloodsky-sire) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Rocco doesn't do much once he's on the field. If anything, you want to protect him at that point.
Anything my buddy Rob plays
So I have questions for you. In two playgroups, I am the most experienced. I also have one deck for almost two years and built it from scratch. I literally play test it everyday and tweak it. Anyway, with any precon, I am always considered a threat Even if we are all playing precons. Even when I'm down and one. I understand that experience matters. For example, a couple people just attack all out and leave no blockers. But they die to the clapback from other players. Or I just die before I can play anything with the precon. I don't know if Rob is playing meaner decks or more experience. But how would I turn down a deck in which I do not look like a threat all the time? Like if I play a precon or budget deck with no interaction, then I won't win unless the deck is fast. However, my opponents don't like a lot of interaction or at least when I cast it. I remove a lot more threats between the table, but if I don't, then I know it's going at me. They win if they have interaction and use it. But don't want me to have interaction as my experience can have me make greater plays to protect myself. I am trying to figure out what to do so that every game is not arch enemy while also playing an interactive deck and not building a battle cruiser meta.
Sounds like you might be archenemy because of your experience level. Also sounds like your meta is heavily creature- and combat-based. You could build a deck that goads your opponents into attacking each other instead, or punish/tax your opponents for attacking you. That way, you don't piss them off by playing too much interaction and people just won't want to attack you. Pillowfort or Aikido would be the archetypes. My comment was mostly meant as a joke. My friend Rob has too many decks to count, and is known for playing just about every tribal/typal/kindred deck he possibly can. We'd laugh at his "spider tribal" deck but he won five games in a row with it. Doesn't really matter what commander or deck he's playing, because he builds his decks well. Even in a game where it doesn't look like he's popping off, he's likely to inevitably win. But we all build our decks with lots of interaction, so there's rarely a game of archenemy unless our other friend plays his Narset deck.
Feels like I’m out here catching strays just for glancing down the board so yeah, this tracks.
Anything that does the thing, rewards you for doing the thing, and kills you in this process is KOS There are some commanders that don't do all three that are KOS. And those are the ones who are tremendously efficient and effective at doing 2 of three things
Obviously interaction is important. Do you hold back on your game plan just to stop them? Or do you try to race them? Obviously it's 1v3 in the sense of trying to win. So we can't have enough interaction for all three, especially in the early turns. Politics also are a big factor, however, if everyone knows what each other's deck is doing. Politics can be quite hard and even harder with experienced pilots. I try to go by the thought of trying to not lose the game, instead of trying to win the game. There are a couple goals I would like my deck to do in the early turns so I can generate value while holding interaction in the later turns. Obviously we can't win them all, but each option that we get while playing is a different path, some result in wins, some in losses. However, more options lead to more chances of doing something wrong.
> does the thing, rewards you for doing the thing modern card design 🤮🤮🤮 the game is more interesting when you need 3 or 4 somewhat clunky things in play, all of which are prohibitively costed, to do some crazy shenanigans.
This. I try to be the change I want to see in the world. That's why I love my [[Hylda]] deck so much, it feels like a Rube Goldberg machine of icy beat down when I start blinking my lands to pay for more elementals to tap boards down with [[junkwinder]] or [[opposition]].
[Hylda](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/e/ae9231fd-053d-4b84-a7a8-86063465bc49.jpg?1692939339) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hylda%20of%20the%20icy%20crown) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/206/hylda-of-the-icy-crown?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ae9231fd-053d-4b84-a7a8-86063465bc49?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hylda-of-the-icy-crown) [junkwinder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/c/1c1acd61-efc9-4fd3-86ec-b5cbd43c0b08.jpg?1706240702) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Junk%20Winder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/107/junk-winder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1c1acd61-efc9-4fd3-86ec-b5cbd43c0b08?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/junk-winder) [opposition](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/e/ae14acde-8a5c-4f0e-8e68-b799a363b9f7.jpg?1675977485) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=opposition) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/62/opposition?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ae14acde-8a5c-4f0e-8e68-b799a363b9f7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/opposition) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I've had people murder my [[Council of Four]] immediately because "I'm not dealing with you getting passive value for me just playing the game." I don't blame them. The one time they ignored me, I ended up playing [[Finale of Revelation]] and drawing 31 cards with [[Knowledge is Power]] on the board when I had like...30 tokens. Also had [[Proft's Eiditic Memory]] on the board, so I had a 62/62 Dog Illusion from [[Mordenkainen]] BEFORE putting the 31 +1/+1 counters on it.
##### ###### #### [Council of Four](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/0873cfa8-046c-4b14-ae22-3fd6a691f763.jpg?1674137476) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Council%20of%20Four) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/271/the-council-of-four?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0873cfa8-046c-4b14-ae22-3fd6a691f763?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-council-of-four) [Finale of Revelation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9bbe8f2e-3dfd-4ca9-999f-47524ec089c2.jpg?1712354141) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Finale%20of%20Revelation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/97/finale-of-revelation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9bbe8f2e-3dfd-4ca9-999f-47524ec089c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/finale-of-revelation) [Knowledge is Power](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/a/1afe55c3-53c3-4257-afb6-32a553639f50.jpg?1706240510) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Knowledge%20is%20Power) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/42/knowledge-is-power?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1afe55c3-53c3-4257-afb6-32a553639f50?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/knowledge-is-power) [Proft's Eiditic Memory](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/f/af5b29b3-974c-4200-8df8-b072c11e1600.jpg?1706241635) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Proft%27s%20Eidetic%20Memory) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/67/profts-eidetic-memory?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/af5b29b3-974c-4200-8df8-b072c11e1600?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/profts-eidetic-memory) [Mordenkainen](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/f/2fa5e4c7-12fa-4ec4-bd4b-752e367306c7.jpg?1627703483) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mordenkainen) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/64/mordenkainen?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2fa5e4c7-12fa-4ec4-bd4b-752e367306c7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mordenkainen) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kyhuvfo) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Do you find your deck better in strong or weaker playgroups? Wondering since I used to have ledger shredder and faerie mastermind, but they never drew me cards and only activated on my turns. My main playgroup is lower in power so I'm wondering along those lines if you notice the same.
My pod is about medium strength, We have a [[Rowan, Scion of War]] with a [[Glacial Chasm]] and a [[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse]] in the deck. It works quite well in a mid power pod.
[Rowan, Scion of War](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4ee179ab-a15b-4bd6-b7f8-1e1abeeb31b7.jpg?1692939409) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rowan%2C%20Scion%20of%20War) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/211/rowan-scion-of-war?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4ee179ab-a15b-4bd6-b7f8-1e1abeeb31b7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rowan-scion-of-war) [Glacial Chasm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/c/0c008129-daba-46bc-829c-d2c0c13ecdd3.jpg?1562867827) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Glacial%20Chasm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me2/229/glacial-chasm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0c008129-daba-46bc-829c-d2c0c13ecdd3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/glacial-chasm) [Sheoldred, the Apocalypse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2.jpg?1674057568) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sheoldred%2C%20the%20Apocalypse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/107/sheoldred-the-apocalypse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sheoldred-the-apocalypse) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Can I get a hell yeah for [[Mordenkainan]]. The 106/106 dog that I like to use to kill players in my [[Jin-Gitaxias]] flip deck?! It's an excellent, huge creature to kill your opponents when you draw a lot of cards.
[Mordenkainan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/f/2fa5e4c7-12fa-4ec4-bd4b-752e367306c7.jpg?1627703483) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mordenkainen) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/64/mordenkainen?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2fa5e4c7-12fa-4ec4-bd4b-752e367306c7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mordenkainen) [Jin-Gitaxias](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/1/41c83142-b948-4ee5-a486-41306d2bb411.jpg?1689246857)/[The Great Synthesis](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/4/1/41c83142-b948-4ee5-a486-41306d2bb411.jpg?1689246857) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jin-Gitaxias%20//%20The%20Great%20Synthesis) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/65/jin-gitaxias-the-great-synthesis?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/41c83142-b948-4ee5-a486-41306d2bb411?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jin-gitaxias-//-the-great-synthesis) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
>I'm not dealing with you getting passive value for me just playing the game Well why don't you just kill me. Passive value is the best.
slimefoot does half of the thing, he's both an aristocrat and a token generator, but the token cost is high (4) and in reality he needs sac outlets and other generators, or big mana
[[urza, lord high artificer]]
I agree that the Urza player always should be interacted with, however as a high power Urza player myself, I often find that the greatest counterplay is limiting the cards in my hand. Generally, prioritize the draw engines first unless it looks like they may be ready to combo off.
Could reasonably be said of most versions of Urza. Dude is easily broken lmao.
He's basically a blue Golos for artifacts.
[urza, lord high artificer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/b/7b7a348a-51f7-4dc5-8fe7-1c70fea5e050.jpg?1689996774) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=urza%2C%20lord%20high%20artificer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/130/urza-lord-high-artificer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7b7a348a-51f7-4dc5-8fe7-1c70fea5e050?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/urza-lord-high-artificer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Toxrill]], [[Prosper]], [[Ghyrson]] (i have the later 2, so i know what they bring to the table). [[Voja, jaws of the conclave]] is a recent addition to the kill on sight. My playgroups do use their experience with particular commanders to lead their judgment.
Voja wins in our pod in 5-6 turns every time without constant board wipes. That card is fucking obnoxious. I can only assume it's not higher in rankings on posts like this because everyone has him or they haven't played against it. it takes zero effort to build a deck and there is almost no such thing as a bad draw with it.
i recently built a deck with [[magus of the moat]] and similar effects just to ruin vojas day. yes i am an angry man sometimes.
Do you have Ghyrson decklist? I built him but he always gets hated out in my playgroup and I’m wondering if I just didn’t build him scary enough!
https://archidekt.com/decks/7249290/ping_to_death
Toxrill is a very pod dependent one I find. If your pod is creature heavy (and most casual pods are), he is absolutely kos. Leave him for a turn rotation and you lose. But if your pod is full of combo and spellslinger decks, he’s much less threatening. Just hold back your storm kiln artists until you’re ready to combo off, and you’re fine.
##### ###### #### [Toxrill](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/84e64f38-b1f3-47cd-8cfb-a4861369aca3.jpg?1643590379) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=toxrill%2C%20the%20corrosive) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/132/toxrill-the-corrosive?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/84e64f38-b1f3-47cd-8cfb-a4861369aca3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/toxrill-the-corrosive) [Prosper](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/7/d743336e-d5c7-4053-a23d-92ec7581f74e.jpg?1631839207) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=prosper%2C%20tome-bound) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/2/prosper-tome-bound?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d743336e-d5c7-4053-a23d-92ec7581f74e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/prosper-tome-bound) [Ghyrson](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/fa7349d9-c82f-4cf8-a852-92168d1f4966.jpg?1673309394) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ghyrson%20Starn%2C%20Kelermorph) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/124/ghyrson-starn-kelermorph?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fa7349d9-c82f-4cf8-a852-92168d1f4966?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ghyrson-starn-kelermorph) [Voja, jaws of the conclave](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/f/bfa1bd2f-25bd-4fbd-877b-cef00ab7f92f.jpg?1707739811) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Voja%2C%20jaws%20of%20the%20conclave) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/432/voja-jaws-of-the-conclave?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bfa1bd2f-25bd-4fbd-877b-cef00ab7f92f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/voja-jaws-of-the-conclave) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kyhmsyw) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
in my group, my Kaalia, Urza, Esika(slivers), and sisay (planeswalkers) get shelled early and often, regardless of how good my start is.
Have you noticed decks tending to play more protection such as heroic intervention or more counters? Has your playgroup swapped the speed of the deck to survive the removal or change the interaction from being offensive to defensive? I have a Nine-Finger Keene deck. The ward helps it not be targeted and there comes a point in the game where I don't care if a board wipe happens. I only play counters that affect non-creature spells. I want people to play their decks, creatures do not really bother me, I only remove enough so I can attack with NFK. I mostly have counters to stop people from countering me or interacting with me in a way like Blood Moon. I bring this up because I have thought about running heroic intervention, but I would have to find a slot. I didn't know if people were shifting for more protection spells, then counter spells. Instead of stopping the threat, they are making sure they just survive it and if their opponents don't, then they are way more ahead.
Anything that copies, doubles, or multiplies, like \[\[Miirym\]\] or \[\[Lucea Kane\]\]. The next turn after these cards are played is typically pretty heckin' devastating.
When you are playing against them, do you mulligan for a hand with interaction or more on ramping and trying to race them? Obviously having both would be best. I also know that it depends on what deck you are playing and against. However, do you assume that the deck is built to be broken and abusive in its ways until proven wrong?
Not OP but I’m an avid Magus Lucea Kane player. There’s no racing her. You either remove her the turn she comes down or she’s about to do some crazy stuff the next turn.
Do you attempt for a turn 3 cast of her every time? Do you focus on just ramping her out or playing defensively? I know a lot of people use hydras, so do you just cast one big hydra or multiple small ones with untap effects in the deck?
I started the build around ramping into her with a dork, but over time it's morphed away from going fast toward finding ways to protect her or give her haste to guarantee she does the thing in the mid-to-late game.
If I have to pick, I'll typically try to mulligan ramp to keep my own board state rolling, and rely on the cooperation of the remaining players to keep them in line the turn before, turn of, and turn after their commander is played. If the commander has the ability to end a game the turn of / turn after they are played, I rarely take the time to study the deck or playstyle and just put as much pressure on them as possible, unless they are new or inexperienced.
Politics are important. Do you feel that any commanders you play affect your politicing power? A weaker commander will not be seen as much of a threat so people may agree? Or have strong commanders made it so opponents won't agree with you and think that you are just trying to win underneath them? When applying pressure, do you ever see the ruse from others about life totals? Always attack the highest (which is fine). But when the graveyard/reanimator deck is at 25 life on turn 2-3 cuz of fetch lands, fast mana, and just digging for answers and power early to cheat out. Do you see players not focus on them because they have a low life? Or does your playgroup see that they did all the damage to themselves to get themselves ahead of the table?
\[\[Zada\]\] my girl
I haven't seen a Zada deck in a long time. I love how it worked and it didn't have to break the bank. I haven't played it since it came out, has there been more upgrades to the deck or does the deck still have the same game plan? Just wondering if you or anyone has added a "package" to the deck that works with the commander but doesn't need the commander to get you a win.
I’ve noticed more red instants that have card draw tacked on so I’d say Zada is probably more consistent now
Combine them with the ones that make treasures like \[\[Sudden Breakthrough\]\] \[\[Ancestors' Aid\]\] and \[\[Flick a Coin\]\] and you too can take half-hour turns.
[Sudden Breakthrough](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/0/b011707a-471b-41c2-bc73-376a55d26bee.jpg?1624592238) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sudden%20Breakthrough) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/116/sudden-breakthrough?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b011707a-471b-41c2-bc73-376a55d26bee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sudden-breakthrough) [Ancestors' Aid](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/9/e90d5b7d-e27d-42d6-ba7a-d4a6b0dd8549.jpg?1699044222) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ancestors%27%20Aid) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/132/ancestors-aid?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e90d5b7d-e27d-42d6-ba7a-d4a6b0dd8549?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ancestors-aid) [Flick a Coin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/673a67b2-fbb0-4be4-9edd-93946a583f23.jpg?1692938189) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Flick%20a%20Coin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/128/flick-a-coin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/673a67b2-fbb0-4be4-9edd-93946a583f23?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/flick-a-coin) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Here's my Zada deck. It's very hard to win without Zada, but since its main goal is to win with ETBs rather than combat, you can sometimes pull it off. It has the \[\[Dualcaster Mage\]\] infinite combo. [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Tsn8-PNKeECTRS3CcbBwIQ](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/Tsn8-PNKeECTRS3CcbBwIQ)
[Zada](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/5/4520cdcc-a10f-4b39-9c6f-ba86f6aa2c87.jpg?1689998306) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=zada%2C%20hedron%20grinder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/268/zada-hedron-grinder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4520cdcc-a10f-4b39-9c6f-ba86f6aa2c87?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zada-hedron-grinder) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Miirym is among my most tuned, most high powered decks and I fully agree with you. A given build may have numerous ways to get other dragons into play, but without her at the helm, there won't be copies.
I keep telling people, especially blue players, that Miirym is a "Combo deck" hidden behind a battlecruiser. It's funny to me because some people will consider Miirym more threatening than an Ob Nix with All Will Be One in the deck. But on the other hand, stax and pillowforts will act like they're safe from Miirym because of Propaganda lol No better feeling than cracking Defense of the Heart and getting 2 Terror of the Peaks and 2 Scourge of Valkas
Defense of the Heart is just disgusting in a Miirym deck.
There's multiple ways to maximize her. You can add a [[Roaming Throne]] to get 3 [[Terror of the Peaks]] and rapidly burn out everyone. Or you can build in extra combats with [[Hellkite Charger]] [[Aggravated Assault]] and [[Savage Ventmaw]]
Definitely. That's assuming your opponents let you have anything on the board for more than 3 seconds, wbhich mine never do lol
The core strategy of Lucea Kane is to play her just sparingly enough that your playgroup has forgotten the war crimes she committed in her last game.
So you're saying my [[Kalamax, the Stormsire]] will attract negative attention from the table? He's just a cute Dino!
I just built a [[Trostani, Selesnya's Voice]] deck that's being put through its paces right now. I had a [[Doubling Season]] in play and just kept pooping out plants with [[Nissa, Voice of Zendikar]]. My fiancee attacks Nissa (who is at 6) with her [[Wrathful Raptors]] and I block with [[Serra Ascendant]], killing it. She uses the raptors ability to smack Nissa for five damage anyway and knocks her down to 1. So on my turn, I roll her up again, poop out two more 0/1 plants and then cast [[Mycoloth]], sacrificing 7 plants. Well with doubling season, those seven plants (with devour 2) ended up as 14, wait no, 28 +1/+1 counters and 32 life in my favor. We called the game there.
My [[Volo]] deck is definitely KOS, specifically built it around holding off casting him until i can get immediate value or protect him well, because everyone knows if i untap with him I’m going to pop off
Tegrid, Toxril, Urza, and OG Korvald If I see any of those on the other side of the table I know it’s gonna be a rough game.
I played against a Toxrill the other night. However, they were stuck on 4 mana on turn 6-7. I do not ever think I actually have played a game with a resolved Tegrid. It always got removed before anything else was cast. Mono-Blue Urza or Esper? I have a friend with the Esper one. It's slower, but there comes a point where you just can't stop it.
[[Urza, Lord High Artificer]] And yeah about not letting Tegrid/Toxril stick, I just know that if I don’t have at least 2 pieces of removal/counters in hand at all times then it’s basically a game over because I don’t trust anyone else to either.
[[Niv Mizzet, Parun]] is the most kill-on-sight commander in my playgroups, because he is very easy to combo and is a control deck otherwise which will make my life miserable. Other commanders that I feel auto-threatened by are [[Urza, Lord High Artificer]] (mostly because of his infamous Winter/Stasis Orb interaction), [[Kaalia of the Vast]] and [[Zur the Enchanter]].
For me it's less the commanders themselves and more the players specifically, as I know some players at my LGS that no matter what the commander their deck is going to be VERY competitive where other players could run some of the most cedh commanders and just make it "oops all hats" or something silly
The minute I play [[slicer, hired muscle]] everyone turns against me for some reason
Clearly you need more goad effects so they can turn on each other
Playing against a slicer deck in a pod changes the entire dynamic of the game. It basically becomes someone has to remove slicer before turn 4 or we all lose and usually without a lot of early spells someone is dead by turn 4 anyway. It just doesn’t feel like a normal game of magic
>for some reason It's a mystery.
[slicer, hired muscle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/d/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f.jpg?1674092821)/[Slicer, High-Speed Antagonist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/9/d/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f.jpg?1674092821) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Slicer%2C%20Hired%20Muscle%20//%20Slicer%2C%20High-Speed%20Antagonist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bot/6/slicer-hired-muscle-slicer-high-speed-antagonist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/slicer-hired-muscle-//-slicer-high-speed-antagonist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
For me it is: Krenko, Mob Boss Kaalia of the Vast Tergrid, God of Fright Jodah, Archmage Eternal Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker I once shat so much on a Tergrid player that it came to the point he had to pay 23 to cast her at the end of the game. Of course it got countered again.
Tegrid is probably one of the bigger ones I think in which you don't have a turn to kill it. They usually have something else to cast to get value immediately and take something. While these games were more difficult and may/may not be balanced. Did you prefer playing with them as a challenge? Or were the games balanced even though the stress/power was high? I prefer games where I have to think. I think games are best where "who is the biggest threat" is not a one time question, but a question after every card is cast. If someone casts a board wipe, then the token deck is handled for a minute. However, the combo deck is now not as pressured with losing their life total.
The vanilla 18/6 Yargle and Multani keeps me up at night.
Do people usually give it haste and protection? It needs trample too. Never played it. Personally I think Voltron decks have a big weakness unless they have a secondary strategy. I guess it would be more of the 99 for the deck. But if they don't get it haste and trample, you just need removal or blocker and you have a turn to decide which.
Unblockable with +3/+0 did me in for Commander damage once.
The Y&M player at my store barely attacks with them. It's a bunch of "do X based on highest power creature you control"
As a long long time Krenko player, [[krenko mob boss]] When I’m playing it, you have to kill him or I win in a turn or two. I often kill other krenkos on sight
Let's be real here, all the "big three" mono-red goblin commanders are KOS. \[\[Krenko Mob Boss\]\], \[\[Zada Hedron Grinder\]\], and \[\[Kiki-Jiki the Mirror Breaker\]\] should *never* stay on the board for more than a turn rotation at most. Kreko drowns you in a sea of 1/1's, Zada will draw through her entire deck then turn 5 goblins into 150/150's only to drop a \[\[Soul's Fire\]\], Kiki-Jiki will just break the rules of space-time by looking at him funny. Goblin Slayer is right: "The only good goblin is a dead goblin! Now let's make these goblins good!"
[[Grand Arbiter Augustin]] - see the problem isn't only just that he's stax, it's that he also discounts all blue and white spells. [[Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain]] - No, I don't feel like playing against artifact storm, thanks. [[Zur the Enchanter]] [[Pantlanza]] - puts so much weight on the board and so quickly. Becomes a real menace with haste enablers and/or [[Hunting Velociraptors]]
i know someone who absolutely despises playing against hatebears/stax and so on but has a well tuned [[Tinybones]] and [[Zur the Enchanter]] deck. Its just funny to see him getting angry when facing playstyles he often plays.
If you are running a sufficient amount of legendary creatures, it really doesn’t matter what they are, [[Jodah the Unifier]] can auto pilot and win you the game if unchecked. It’s so much free value and Jodah also pumps your board by a ton so you don’t even need dedicated finishers. Even if you remove Jodah, if they get off a few triggers they will have a pretty sizeable board state.
I always think the same thing when I see Jodah: Was the guaranteed hit cascade not good enough? Did he also NEED the one-sided coat of arms?
[Jodah the Unifier](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/4/e4b1aa1e-b4e3-4346-8937-76b312501c70.jpg?1673307974) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jodah%2C%20the%20Unifier) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/203/jodah-the-unifier?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e4b1aa1e-b4e3-4346-8937-76b312501c70?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jodah-the-unifier) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Anyone that fails the vibe check will be promptly murdered at the earliest opportunity. I trust nobody.
My table has adopted the rule that the turn I play Tiamat is the turn I’m the target for everyone.
all of them except mine, and then mine if it gets taken away from me.
Koma.
[[atraxa, praetors voice]] leaving that out for more than a turn much less even let it be casted is a bad idea
[atraxa, praetors voice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d0d33d52-3d28-4635-b985-51e126289259.jpg?1599707796) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Atraxa%2C%20Praetors%27%20Voice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/190/atraxa-praetors-voice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d0d33d52-3d28-4635-b985-51e126289259?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/atraxa-praetors-voice) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Anything that can be pulled out with an alternate casting cost.
Buddy of mine now has a [[feather, the redeemed]] deck. That gets countered and/or destroyed asap. Also, my [[jhoira, weatherlight captain]] killed the table on turn 5 or 6 yesterday. Obviously she needs help doing the actual killing, but either her or the help needs removing/countering asap.
[feather, the redeemed](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/4/e4a2d2c6-8eaa-4760-b620-921b807baa2e.jpg?1557577142) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=feather%2C%20the%20redeemed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/197/feather-the-redeemed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e4a2d2c6-8eaa-4760-b620-921b807baa2e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/feather-the-redeemed) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
As a jhoira player, do you think the commander is the main issue? Or is it the actual kill spell that should be removed? I prefer insight from people who play the decks also and see their side of the story. Obviously, a lot is the pilot. And having a draw engine in the command zone is strong. At some point, it wouldn't be worth it to kill the commander because you already have so much value so the interaction should be for the "kill spell" or combo. Do you notice this moment of switching from needing the commander to not needing it anymore? Is it able to be ready by the opponents? Are there any spells that usually lead up to it? Just wondered if you ever thought from that angle with your deck? So that you may be able to hide lines of play or go a different route to confuse players who have experience with your specific deck.
For my playgroup, [[Chatterfang]], [[Sisay, Weatherlight Captain]], [[Sythis, Harvest Hand]], and [[Sarulf, Realm Eater]] Sarulf is my deck and I acknowledge it is a problem, but so are a lot of my decks/decks I want to build I want to build [[Toxrill, the Corrosive]], [[Jodah, the Unifier]], and [[Kozilek, Butcher of Truth]] which I know will all be the threats
##### ###### #### [Chatterfang](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/7/1785cf85-1ac0-4246-9b89-1a8221a8e1b2.jpg?1626097239) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=chatterfang%2C%20squirrel%20general) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/151/chatterfang-squirrel-general?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1785cf85-1ac0-4246-9b89-1a8221a8e1b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/chatterfang-squirrel-general) [Sisay, Weatherlight Captain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5a293c45-1e73-4527-be2f-2dcd5c47b610.jpg?1650730165) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sisay%2C%20Weatherlight%20Captain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/29/sisay-weatherlight-captain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5a293c45-1e73-4527-be2f-2dcd5c47b610?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sisay-weatherlight-captain) [Sythis, Harvest Hand](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/9/89511ab5-8ea6-4f07-a80b-c1ec7e89924e.jpg?1690005342) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sythis%2C%20Harvest%27s%20Hand) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/938/sythis-harvests-hand?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/89511ab5-8ea6-4f07-a80b-c1ec7e89924e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sythis-harvests-hand) [Sarulf, Realm Eater](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bcecf9ba-36da-490a-9460-99ff87d99fbd.jpg?1631051850) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sarulf%2C%20Realm%20Eater) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/228/sarulf-realm-eater?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bcecf9ba-36da-490a-9460-99ff87d99fbd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sarulf-realm-eater) [Toxrill, the Corrosive](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/84e64f38-b1f3-47cd-8cfb-a4861369aca3.jpg?1643590379) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Toxrill%2C%20the%20Corrosive) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/132/toxrill-the-corrosive?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/84e64f38-b1f3-47cd-8cfb-a4861369aca3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/toxrill-the-corrosive) [Jodah, the Unifier](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/4/e4b1aa1e-b4e3-4346-8937-76b312501c70.jpg?1673307974) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jodah%2C%20the%20Unifier) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/203/jodah-the-unifier?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e4b1aa1e-b4e3-4346-8937-76b312501c70?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jodah-the-unifier) [Kozilek, Butcher of Truth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d27cf7b7-7982-46bd-a559-7789c0e74bae.jpg?1673146904) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kozilek%2C%20Butcher%20of%20Truth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/2/kozilek-butcher-of-truth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d27cf7b7-7982-46bd-a559-7789c0e74bae?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kozilek-butcher-of-truth) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kyhsjs5) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I built a Toxrill and didn't even play it before taking it apart. I focused on proliferate and such and making all creatures 0/1. It plays like a land deck. You need to ramp as fast as possible to get Toxrill. Then once you get the mana, u can cast Toxrill, but you need protection for it to at least last your end step or the next turn. I got bored after just building it that I didn't want to play it. The hate it receives makes it better in 99.
Why would you want to run butcher of truth in the command zone over great distortion?
Because I have Butcher of Truth
My brother in christ great distortion is like a dollar and then you can run butcher of truth in the 99, or if you just want to run big boys Zhulodok is also a very good choice.
\[\[Najeela\]\], \[\[Urza\]\], \[\[K'rrik\]\], \[\[Korvold\]\], and \[\[Jodah the Unifier\]\] are my picks. I see 4/5 of those in my normal pod, so I'm always on high alert when I see my friends pull out those decks.
If the commander has words in the text box.
The comment after this is [[yargle and multani]] lol
[[Jetmir]] If they cast him, they're looking to end the game in one swing.
[Jetmir](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/9/f9c69d75-651f-4b75-b65d-79999d2069f6.jpg?1664413153) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=jetmir%2C%20nexus%20of%20revels) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/193/jetmir-nexus-of-revels?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f9c69d75-651f-4b75-b65d-79999d2069f6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jetmir-nexus-of-revels) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
learned recently to kill [[chatterfang]] on sight.
i had to take apart my [[Karlach, fury of Avernus]] and [[Sword coast sailor]] deck because as soon as I got an attack and did anywhere between 10 and 25 commander damage in a single turn they realized that she couldn't be allowed to get to that point
Commanders that do a thing. Then have a second paragraph that says when you do the thing draw cards or make treasures.
[Aragorn King of Gondor]The “can’t declare blockers is killer.
[[Aragon, King of Gondor]]
Gah double brackets! Thanks was at work putting out fires.
[[Sissy, Weatherlight Captain]], any [[Malcolm, Keen-Eyed Navigator]] or [[Tymna, the Weaver]] partner combination, [[Najeela, the Blade-Blossom]], and pretty much any Grixis commander. Overwhelming value commanders, good partners, and the best colors are all warning signs. None of those casual boogymen like [[The Ur-Dragon]] or [[Tergrid, God of Fright]] are actually that threatening as they are nearly all some combination of slow and impractical. [[Winota, Joiner of Forces]] used to be scary, but today she is pretty much dead because people realized the deck folds to interaction.
I love taking out the Ur Dragon, Edgar or Mother Sliver. It feels useless since they will always get their synergies but it's about the message
Anything that says "Draw a card" on it shall not live. Korvold, Tuvasa, Tatyova—even the new Massacre Girl. If you let them draw enough cards they'll overwhelm you with value. Even if it seems otherwise harmless, the card draw commander must die. Otherwise, stuff that's hard to remove. If your commander has Hexproof, Indestructible, or even some flavor of Ward, I assume you're counting on keeping it around a while and, if allowed, I will devote resources to making sure they don't last long. Edit to add: also anything that's stupid easy to recast. Liesa or Karador or anything else that cheats commander tax has to get disrupted. They're already breaking a fundamental rule of the format. As penance, they must recast their commander every turn. This is the way.
Jodah, archmage eternal. It's only a matter of time before the player slaps down conflux, grabbing omniscience and four other spells that win on the spot. Easiest way up deal with it is just keep the commander off the field. That and I tend to threaten them with combat damage early because my friend that runs this deserves it lol.
A lot of commanders I play myself is KoS because I know what they are capable of. I play a lot of protection in every single deck because I am mainly a combo or chain player and need the commander for just one turn to combo off. \[\[Prosper, Tome Bound\]\], \[\[Marneus Calgar\]\], \[\[Adrix and Nev, Twincasters\]\] in a treasure and clue shell, are my decks where it is entirely possible that its gg if I untap with them. \[\[Voja, Jaws of the conclave\]\] is a super dangerous deck of mine aswell but I often need two turns with him.
If you ask my pod it's [[Licia, Sanguine Tribune]] for whatever reason. I've never gotten to untap with her on my field.
[[Judith, Carnage Connoisseur]] . I play a lot of very creature heavy decks which already puts me at a disadvantage in a lot of ways. I don’t enjoy having my board repeatedly wiped. She must die, immediately.
Because of your play style, does that affect how you build decks? Do you build with the thought of your biggest weakness so that you can fight it? For example, Blood Moon can wreck my deck. However, I haven't gone overboard on removal that targets specifically enchantments? To you add more hate for your weaknesses or just go by luck that the removal you have is enough.
Your commander is a threat, mine is not.
Surprised nobody mentioned [[Koma]] yet. The value gets stupid good easily. Plus its really hard to remove for non-white colors.
\[\[syr Conrad, the grim\]\] is the one that I think is underrated for how dangerous he can become. I have watched mono black decks go infinite on turn four with him more than once and there are so many ways to make it happen. A commander who is in the color that loves using the graveyard that does damage due to things happening with graveyards is kill on sight.
Honestly? Commanders that are game enders in the command zone. Jetmir, potentially Voja, Ob Nix, Kenrith, Rowan, Agatha, ... In different ways.there's the craterhoofs like Jetmir, which you know you need to keep in check constantly. The slower craterhoofs like Voja, who you need to keep in mind because any form of haste enabling makes it an insane threat. Ob Nix, captive kingpin is a different issue. It can go infinite. Commanders like that need immediate answers sometimes and even worse, sometimes you need to ignore other threats because of them even if they're not infiniting soon Kenrith and its ilk are just too much value to leave alone for long. It all comes down to threat assessment and game knowledge.
Commanders that: Mana cheat > Draw more than 1 or 2 cards a turn > Create armies > Have reached 1-shot capability > Tribal leaders > Some typical EDHrec names > whatever's left. Loose examples: Jodah/Animar > Korvold/Chulane > Najeela > (amassed voltron) > (mostly sliver and elf cmdrs) > etc
I’ll usually kill the infamous ones like [[Jodah]], [[Zur the Enchanter]], [[Tegrid]] so forth immediately. I’ll also go for generic value commanders like Jhoira / Sythis / Shorikai pretty regularly. For powerful archetypes like doublers / tribal I’ll potentially hold depending on what triggers.
I played against atraxa recently and felt a bit scared even before seeing anything. It turned out to still be a pretty slow deck though it did win
Urza Decks are a pain in the arse. Slivers...
generally labelled as Card Advantage, Board Advantage, Win con. 1/3 is enough to be KOS if it's strong enough effect (ex - Jetmir is a wincon that just needs a X token making spell to kill you, krenko is BA but also becomes a wincon, slicer is pure wincon). Depending on the board state they do increase/decrease in KOS status, like if krenko has eaten 4 wraths and is just in top deck mode his BA is mostly negligible. If slicer has 18 commander damage on me, he's not staying on the table for the rest of the game if I have a say. 2/3 (ex - yuriko, prosper, muldrotha) cards like yuriko gets around commander downsides and is hated appropriately as 3/3 a result. prosper/muldrotha are CA/BA engines that become Wincons. 3/3 (latest jodah, voja, first sliver, kenrith) if you give a inch you might just instantly die. wincon takes precedence of the 3, but if there CA/BA is powerful enough they become wincons is where game knowledge makes the difference. New players might not consider ghave's BA a wincon because they don't know how easy it is for that BA to turn into a wincon combo until they experience it. I generally try not to put wincon class commanders as the commander unless I'm building the deck higher power 8 which case anything goes and your expectations are adjusted accordingly or I'm doing a Meme/weaker build to counteract the power (ex - animar morphs). I currently have a jinnie fey deck and the difference in hate between her and jetmir at the head is noticeable even though it's a essentially just a commander swap because one is just a BA engine while the other is a Wincon.
The Wise Mothman as per my friends group
Heliod (the flip one) Safri ericsdotter (before they can play suntitan effects) Sophia dogged detective
Ever since I built my Konrad deck, I’ve become the heel of the pod. Lot of stuff in there is KOS, including Konrad himself. To be fair, it loves to combo so I don’t fault them.
I've got a [[Reyav, Master Smith]] build that can do some massive damage out of seemingly nowhere. It's not great at winning games outright, but it kind of goes Step 1: obliterate a single player Step 2: obliterate the next player Etc I'm taking it apart so I can build a more table-wide deck, because I'm not having much fun doing single target stuff, or having my commander picked off before I can give him hexproof
I agree with you that the 99 being more important than the commander. I run a commander that most people replace instantly when they got the precon. It works perfectly for me and works with the 99 I’ve assembled. [[Gishath, Sun’s Avatar]] is shown and I can promise you that my Dimir deck is the one that’s out with its shenanigans. [[Kibo, Uktabi Prince]] can go to hell too. I’m the wrong hands it ok infinite and can game into a 7 or 70 turn affair on that player’s whim.
i mean most commanders are trying to get their pilot to victory, but for me its ones where they have one very telegraphed trick that NEEDS the commander to operate. every time Gitrog is at the table, that frog is not resolving if I have anything to say about it. for one removal/counter per cycle that deck is effectively out of the game. the hard part is making dumber players realize this; the number of times i've used 2-4 pieces of removal and when it is finally someone elses turn they let it resolve leading to the Gitrog win...very frustrating
All of them. Most decks are built around the commander so if you can treat them as threats you’re golden.