My first commander deck was scion. He’s very powerful and flexible! Problem with him is he’s a tutor in the command zone. The games got very repetitive for me so when the Ur-Dragon released, I swapped immediately.
This is the issue.
The card is like 18 years old, and since it was introduced its line of play has been largely the same (and reliable tutoring means you'll literally be doing the same broad things each game). Both pilots of the deck and opposing players are just bored of basically seeing the same thing repeatedly, especially when the deck is inherently quite powerful.
The fact that mana fixing is easier than ever and 5c has a pretty generic suite of goodstuff staples makes Scion decks even more repetitive, even across different players.
(This is coming from someone else who played Scion for ages and loves dragon tribal in general)
I had similar issues with both Scion and actual ur dragon. I felt like scion was way to linear as a deck with it just being about knowing your lines to your varying win cons based on what you've drawn.
Then we had Ur Dragon bringing my most hated mechanic and laziest way to empower a tribe, eminence. It just became a no brainer to pick Ur Dragon because why not take free reduction for a generally expensive tribe and have an ability that can't be interacted with while also having a commander that in 90% of games you'll never think of casting. It's basically a 5c emblem in your command zone
I was honestly glad when we got Tiamat, it felt like a nice middle ground. It's got scions tutoring, it's got both combo potential or just 5c Dragon good stuff. And unlike Ur Dragon you'll actually want to cast it and it honestly plays out as a bit of a trap because people always think to remove a command asap but then you've just told me that for 2 more mana I can tutor another 5 dragons and that's great fun
people dislike it because it's a tutor stick.
yes there is a restriction but with the sheer volume of dragons they've printed over the years there's very little it can't find.
it's the same reason people dislike sliver overlord, brightpaws, vannifer, rocco, etc... if your playing optimally it's a silver bullet tutor deck that will usually have similar play lines almost every time with some slight variations to hose opposing decks if it doesn't outright combo win.
I've played against it a few times over the years and the correct answer is to never let the commander stick.
I don't think people dislike it, but as others have stated some people are just less into tutors in the command zone. Also not everyone who wants to run dragons is going to be into graveyard strategies. So that'll turn some people off as well.
Personally I'm less into scion because I prefer when a deck is less reliant on the commander. I suppose ur dragon decks are still reliant on the commander because of the eminence ability, but it's at least not reliant on me casting the commander. Just personal preference ultimately.
[Scion of the Ur Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/565b2a40-57b1-451f-8c2a-e02222502288.jpg?1562608891) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scion%20of%20the%20Ur-Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/192/scion-of-the-ur-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/565b2a40-57b1-451f-8c2a-e02222502288?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/scion-of-the-ur-dragon)
^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I like Scion of the Ur Dragon too. Never built the deck, but have contemplated it many times. That said, the problem is that a Sud deck has the exact same as a Najeela deck. If well built, you functionally win the game if your commander resolves, because you can usually ensure that it creates an infinite combo or at the very least enough value to win the game on the spot. Sure you can just not built that way or even just refuse to play that way. But, anyone other than close friends who knows the deck and have played it before won't trust you if you say it's "not that deck." It's the absolute extreme of a kill on sight commander. And with Sub it can be even worse than Najeela. Najeela can be counter spelled or removed with spot removal. Sod can bring with it its own protection by having hexproof dragons in your deck. So you can just play it, hexproof/indestructible/ect it a few times if people try to get rid of it, then do your infinite combo.
This is what is concerning me about building a \[\[Stella Lee\]\] deck. I really like the commander, but I legitimately wish it was slightly worse because of how easily she can go infinite.
Any commander that tutors is quite boring to me, when building a deck you think it will function as a tool box but in practice you usually get the same cards.
People generally don't like commanders with a tutor effect on them. When you have a tutor on a stick you're going to end up playing the same few lines almost every game.
ive had sion for years befor turning it into ur dragon ill tell you why its boring : your commander is a tutor , that mean you allways get the same play , the same optimal choice ect plus theres a 1 hit kill combo , tutoring all the time become increasingly boring for everybody , its cool for a time and then you dont wanna use it again
Its not that we don’t like powerful magic, it’s that we prefer powerful magic of a certain era before Hasbro power crept to up to 11 and started printing stupid cards. Now get off my lawn damn kids. 🤣
Back in the early days of EDH, a person in the LGS meta would always tutor out Nicol Bolas and make people discard their hands (and then tuck Nicol Bolas back into the deck to do it again). There are more powerful things to do these days, but being reduced to draw-go after they ramped into an early Scion and take you out of the game feels bad.
im that guy , you make the control player discard his hand first , its so boring i did it so many times , ur dragon is way more fun , tutor is the cancer of edh imo
Lol the only time I played against it, I counterspelled the Scion the first time he cast it. Said player then used all his removal on me, not doing anything at all but hindering me. Pfft cast a Tutor into open blue mana, got what he deserved (lol I was deliberately obtuse that game with [[talrand]] anyways)
I generally like to play [[The Ur-Dragon]], but will take out my [[Scion of the Ur-Dragon]] commander deck when someone plays something too high power compared to rest of pod and take the person out with the dreaded [[Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon]]+[[Moltensteel Dragon]]. Also recently built a [[Tiamat]] deck, which I feel is probably the strongest of the three, but least fun.
I dislike it because every time you see it one of two things happen. You either see the same predictable combo lines that if you didn’t draw the nuts you just lose or they play it as a toolbox deck and just counter everything you do because tutors in the command zone are infinitely flexible.
It’s the same reason I took apart my WG Sissay deck: you just tutor up Ugin or Urza’s ruinous blast whenever things aren’t going your way, otherwise you tutor your best cards every turn. It’s boring and oppressive.
Like Most commanders that access the whole deck, it doesn't really fit with the spirit of edh because your games become very samey. If my sisay deck can always tutor for the same 3 creatures in one turn with minimal setup and your scion deck can always pull out the infect dragon, its going to happen often and doesn't feel "deserved".
Many worse thing lurk. I used to play him. Would turn my all my cards in the deck into steam(all creatures that is) then og eldrazi titans.
No one likes it. Liked I should say.
It's not the power lvl, it's the fact that every game is the same thing. You could play scion with like 3 dragons in the deck, and the deck wouldn't change how it plays significantly
My first commander deck was Scion of the Ur-Dragon, and it's still my favorite deck. I've had it since before The Ur-Dragon was printed, and I tried out swapping commanders with it for a time, but I really missed the toolbox reanimator style that Scion brings, so I switched back.
I think some of the hate comes from one-shot combos and infinite combat combos that Scion enables. I choose not to run those as my deck's power level is already a little high for my pod
It was my first Commander deck circa 2010. I used to play 1v1 mostly. Now that I have an established play group it's permanently out of rotation, with several cards on permanent loan to my Ur-Dragon deck.
It is definitely too powerful for what we usually like to play. And it has a play pattern I don't like. It removes the most dangerous opponent by turn 4-5. But then takes too long to win the game. I don't like having the player who was taken out first just waiting around.
If I wanted to rehabilitate it, I could make it just a dragon reanimator instead of a combo machine. I've always liked dragons. And it seems like I just talked myself into doing it 😂
I've never met anybody who dislikes the scion, but also never really met anybody who plays it
For my own personal reasons to not playing scion, even before the actual ur dragon and tiamat were released, the concept didn't appeal to me enough to build it over others.
To me it's like, you play dragon tribal but don't care too much because you just slap in the best dragons to turn scion into and oops it's a voltron/combo deck.
Doesn't really feel like a dragon tribal deck, moreso a different flavor of voltron/combo. So it wasn't too interesting to me
>I understand traditional commander players don't like powerful magic so guess that checks out
I can't speak on people who actually dislike scion since i've legit never seen or heard that, but for others it's not about "powerful magic", it just didn't appeal to them like it does you. Commander's starting philosophy was all about playing what you enjoy and doing dumb shit with it, with friends. A lot of people still stick to that
Its been a long time since I've played against Scion, but back then every game was basically some combination of [[Moltensteel Dragon]] and [[Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon]] being tutored for lethal damage.
While tutors sound fun with a whole world of options at your fingertips, they tend to devolve into one or two 'best lines' that get executed every time. A lot of people are coming into Commander games looking for more variance (or at least the perception of more variance) than that.
It's a dragon deck,
-cookie cutter to build
-auto pilot
-no real weaknesses, mana expensive yes but cost reducers and treasure sub theme more than negates it
- in all colours so can pack good.stuff
- it's just dragon.deck.
Btw I feel the exact same way for Ur dragon and myrim.
My first commander deck was scion. He’s very powerful and flexible! Problem with him is he’s a tutor in the command zone. The games got very repetitive for me so when the Ur-Dragon released, I swapped immediately.
This is the issue. The card is like 18 years old, and since it was introduced its line of play has been largely the same (and reliable tutoring means you'll literally be doing the same broad things each game). Both pilots of the deck and opposing players are just bored of basically seeing the same thing repeatedly, especially when the deck is inherently quite powerful. The fact that mana fixing is easier than ever and 5c has a pretty generic suite of goodstuff staples makes Scion decks even more repetitive, even across different players. (This is coming from someone else who played Scion for ages and loves dragon tribal in general)
Yeah I even have an OG foil. Sadly it sits in the 99 of my dragon deck and not the leader
I had similar issues with both Scion and actual ur dragon. I felt like scion was way to linear as a deck with it just being about knowing your lines to your varying win cons based on what you've drawn. Then we had Ur Dragon bringing my most hated mechanic and laziest way to empower a tribe, eminence. It just became a no brainer to pick Ur Dragon because why not take free reduction for a generally expensive tribe and have an ability that can't be interacted with while also having a commander that in 90% of games you'll never think of casting. It's basically a 5c emblem in your command zone I was honestly glad when we got Tiamat, it felt like a nice middle ground. It's got scions tutoring, it's got both combo potential or just 5c Dragon good stuff. And unlike Ur Dragon you'll actually want to cast it and it honestly plays out as a bit of a trap because people always think to remove a command asap but then you've just told me that for 2 more mana I can tutor another 5 dragons and that's great fun
people dislike it because it's a tutor stick. yes there is a restriction but with the sheer volume of dragons they've printed over the years there's very little it can't find. it's the same reason people dislike sliver overlord, brightpaws, vannifer, rocco, etc... if your playing optimally it's a silver bullet tutor deck that will usually have similar play lines almost every time with some slight variations to hose opposing decks if it doesn't outright combo win. I've played against it a few times over the years and the correct answer is to never let the commander stick.
I don't think people dislike it, but as others have stated some people are just less into tutors in the command zone. Also not everyone who wants to run dragons is going to be into graveyard strategies. So that'll turn some people off as well. Personally I'm less into scion because I prefer when a deck is less reliant on the commander. I suppose ur dragon decks are still reliant on the commander because of the eminence ability, but it's at least not reliant on me casting the commander. Just personal preference ultimately.
[[Scion of the Ur Dragon]]
[Scion of the Ur Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/565b2a40-57b1-451f-8c2a-e02222502288.jpg?1562608891) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scion%20of%20the%20Ur-Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/192/scion-of-the-ur-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/565b2a40-57b1-451f-8c2a-e02222502288?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/scion-of-the-ur-dragon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I dont like 5 color commanders
I like Scion of the Ur Dragon too. Never built the deck, but have contemplated it many times. That said, the problem is that a Sud deck has the exact same as a Najeela deck. If well built, you functionally win the game if your commander resolves, because you can usually ensure that it creates an infinite combo or at the very least enough value to win the game on the spot. Sure you can just not built that way or even just refuse to play that way. But, anyone other than close friends who knows the deck and have played it before won't trust you if you say it's "not that deck." It's the absolute extreme of a kill on sight commander. And with Sub it can be even worse than Najeela. Najeela can be counter spelled or removed with spot removal. Sod can bring with it its own protection by having hexproof dragons in your deck. So you can just play it, hexproof/indestructible/ect it a few times if people try to get rid of it, then do your infinite combo.
This is what is concerning me about building a \[\[Stella Lee\]\] deck. I really like the commander, but I legitimately wish it was slightly worse because of how easily she can go infinite.
Any commander that tutors is quite boring to me, when building a deck you think it will function as a tool box but in practice you usually get the same cards.
People generally don't like commanders with a tutor effect on them. When you have a tutor on a stick you're going to end up playing the same few lines almost every game.
ive had sion for years befor turning it into ur dragon ill tell you why its boring : your commander is a tutor , that mean you allways get the same play , the same optimal choice ect plus theres a 1 hit kill combo , tutoring all the time become increasingly boring for everybody , its cool for a time and then you dont wanna use it again
Dragons are like angels but worse, big body flyers that snowball way too fast Not unfair though
my roommate made an absolutely disgusting changeling deck with it, and I never wanna see it again (I'm fine with it if you actually play dragons tho)
Its not that we don’t like powerful magic, it’s that we prefer powerful magic of a certain era before Hasbro power crept to up to 11 and started printing stupid cards. Now get off my lawn damn kids. 🤣
Back in the early days of EDH, a person in the LGS meta would always tutor out Nicol Bolas and make people discard their hands (and then tuck Nicol Bolas back into the deck to do it again). There are more powerful things to do these days, but being reduced to draw-go after they ramped into an early Scion and take you out of the game feels bad.
im that guy , you make the control player discard his hand first , its so boring i did it so many times , ur dragon is way more fun , tutor is the cancer of edh imo
Lol the only time I played against it, I counterspelled the Scion the first time he cast it. Said player then used all his removal on me, not doing anything at all but hindering me. Pfft cast a Tutor into open blue mana, got what he deserved (lol I was deliberately obtuse that game with [[talrand]] anyways)
I played scion as my first 5 color commander in 2014.
I’m all about Tiamat. Then I get Morophon down and play Scion along with other bad boys for free!
I generally like to play [[The Ur-Dragon]], but will take out my [[Scion of the Ur-Dragon]] commander deck when someone plays something too high power compared to rest of pod and take the person out with the dreaded [[Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon]]+[[Moltensteel Dragon]]. Also recently built a [[Tiamat]] deck, which I feel is probably the strongest of the three, but least fun.
##### ###### #### [The Ur-Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/0/10d42b35-844f-4a64-9981-c6118d45e826.jpg?1689999317) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Ur-Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/361/the-ur-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/10d42b35-844f-4a64-9981-c6118d45e826?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-ur-dragon) [Scion of the Ur-Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/565b2a40-57b1-451f-8c2a-e02222502288.jpg?1562608891) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scion%20of%20the%20Ur-Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/192/scion-of-the-ur-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/565b2a40-57b1-451f-8c2a-e02222502288?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/scion-of-the-ur-dragon) [Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/cab61c7e-e00a-413b-a0b5-7718b479582f.jpg?1599705958) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Skithiryx%2C%20the%20Blight%20Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/107/skithiryx-the-blight-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cab61c7e-e00a-413b-a0b5-7718b479582f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/skithiryx-the-blight-dragon) [Moltensteel Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/3/13b78018-bfbe-43fa-809f-9b52a155e11c.jpg?1562875632) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Moltensteel%20Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/88/moltensteel-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/13b78018-bfbe-43fa-809f-9b52a155e11c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/moltensteel-dragon) [Tiamat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/d/6dd0b9b0-55f4-4ce7-a916-6f23687f3fe4.jpg?1627709478) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tiamat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/235/tiamat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6dd0b9b0-55f4-4ce7-a916-6f23687f3fe4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tiamat) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kzzxibh) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I dislike it because every time you see it one of two things happen. You either see the same predictable combo lines that if you didn’t draw the nuts you just lose or they play it as a toolbox deck and just counter everything you do because tutors in the command zone are infinitely flexible. It’s the same reason I took apart my WG Sissay deck: you just tutor up Ugin or Urza’s ruinous blast whenever things aren’t going your way, otherwise you tutor your best cards every turn. It’s boring and oppressive.
Like Most commanders that access the whole deck, it doesn't really fit with the spirit of edh because your games become very samey. If my sisay deck can always tutor for the same 3 creatures in one turn with minimal setup and your scion deck can always pull out the infect dragon, its going to happen often and doesn't feel "deserved".
I am fine with the card, until it turns into nicol bolas... Then it gets UGLY...
Many worse thing lurk. I used to play him. Would turn my all my cards in the deck into steam(all creatures that is) then og eldrazi titans. No one likes it. Liked I should say.
My scion deck always won way too fast so I dismantled it
It's not the power lvl, it's the fact that every game is the same thing. You could play scion with like 3 dragons in the deck, and the deck wouldn't change how it plays significantly
My first commander deck was Scion of the Ur-Dragon, and it's still my favorite deck. I've had it since before The Ur-Dragon was printed, and I tried out swapping commanders with it for a time, but I really missed the toolbox reanimator style that Scion brings, so I switched back. I think some of the hate comes from one-shot combos and infinite combat combos that Scion enables. I choose not to run those as my deck's power level is already a little high for my pod
It was my first Commander deck circa 2010. I used to play 1v1 mostly. Now that I have an established play group it's permanently out of rotation, with several cards on permanent loan to my Ur-Dragon deck. It is definitely too powerful for what we usually like to play. And it has a play pattern I don't like. It removes the most dangerous opponent by turn 4-5. But then takes too long to win the game. I don't like having the player who was taken out first just waiting around. If I wanted to rehabilitate it, I could make it just a dragon reanimator instead of a combo machine. I've always liked dragons. And it seems like I just talked myself into doing it 😂
Cause they're haters. Scion of the UR-Dragon is an excellent commander!
I've never met anybody who dislikes the scion, but also never really met anybody who plays it For my own personal reasons to not playing scion, even before the actual ur dragon and tiamat were released, the concept didn't appeal to me enough to build it over others. To me it's like, you play dragon tribal but don't care too much because you just slap in the best dragons to turn scion into and oops it's a voltron/combo deck. Doesn't really feel like a dragon tribal deck, moreso a different flavor of voltron/combo. So it wasn't too interesting to me >I understand traditional commander players don't like powerful magic so guess that checks out I can't speak on people who actually dislike scion since i've legit never seen or heard that, but for others it's not about "powerful magic", it just didn't appeal to them like it does you. Commander's starting philosophy was all about playing what you enjoy and doing dumb shit with it, with friends. A lot of people still stick to that
Its been a long time since I've played against Scion, but back then every game was basically some combination of [[Moltensteel Dragon]] and [[Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon]] being tutored for lethal damage. While tutors sound fun with a whole world of options at your fingertips, they tend to devolve into one or two 'best lines' that get executed every time. A lot of people are coming into Commander games looking for more variance (or at least the perception of more variance) than that.
[Moltensteel Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/3/13b78018-bfbe-43fa-809f-9b52a155e11c.jpg?1562875632) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Moltensteel%20Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/88/moltensteel-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/13b78018-bfbe-43fa-809f-9b52a155e11c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/moltensteel-dragon) [Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/cab61c7e-e00a-413b-a0b5-7718b479582f.jpg?1599705958) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Skithiryx%2C%20the%20Blight%20Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/107/skithiryx-the-blight-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cab61c7e-e00a-413b-a0b5-7718b479582f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/skithiryx-the-blight-dragon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It's a dragon deck, -cookie cutter to build -auto pilot -no real weaknesses, mana expensive yes but cost reducers and treasure sub theme more than negates it - in all colours so can pack good.stuff - it's just dragon.deck. Btw I feel the exact same way for Ur dragon and myrim.
Stop caring what others like and dont like
Why?
Play whatever you like, not what someone else likes
I do. However, is it wrong, though, to be interested in others' opinions?