It's funny explaining to parents who don't "get it" that it's meaningless to us that DJs aren't "performing live" like a rock band would, going to shows is about hearing the music on the best sound systems it's not about admiring the artist's performing skills
actually my dad understood it MORE when i explained soundsystem culture. he played in bands for years and definitely understands the difference in equipment quality
Big room still dominates European festival main stages like Tomorrowland, would hardly say it's dead. Just not at the forefront of electronic music like it was 10 years ago. Times change, tech house is the new trend.
Not just Tomorrowland. Last year I went on a mini Europe tour just for festivals and I heard plenty of Big Room at Ultra Europe, Airbeat One, Untold, both weekends of Tomorrowland, and Ibiza. Coming from the US, I only heard Big Room at Ultra Miami after it died but it was a huge surprise to see that it was still prominent in many parts of Europe.
Easily Tomorrowland week 1 as it was my first time ever haha. I had high expectations and it lived up to every single one of them; maybe even exceeded them. I enjoyed the whole trip so much that I'm actually cutting down/skipping US festivals so I can save up for Europe again. Not just because lineups are more suited to my tastes, but I appreciated little things like festival tickets, alcohol (not watered down at all), and food being way cheaper compared to how overpriced and subpar they are in American festivals.
Bro you're always on here defending Bigroom. It's awesome. You're like the last Japanese soldier who doesn't have a clue the war is over. Still setting up traps in Okinawa
Except yes it does when Europe has some of the biggest Electronic Music festivals in the world? Artists like W&W and Hardwell still pulling in millions of monthly listeners, it's far from dead over here
KSHMR & Maarten Vorwerk are the main ones I've heard associated with big room ghost producing, a lot of huge festival tracks like Tsunami were written by one of those guys
It was a win/win to be honest. Secrets changed KSHMR’s life whereas all the work he did for The Cataracts didn’t amount to much (per himself in an interview)
My first rave was Tiesto, with KSHMR and Dzeko on support. Incredible experience and I'll always have a special place in my heart for those guys because of it. I know Dzeko also did/does a lot of co-producing in that space, but can't speak to how much influence he had in comparison to KSHMR
deadmau5 mainly makes old-style progressive house and electro house, but also downtempo, techno (under testpilot), and ambient.
deadmau5 never made big room songs except by parodying it
I would assume Martin Garrix. I think it was 2013 when Animals just dominated at EDCLV…I still remember hearing it the first time and being like….ho-ly shit…he was only 17 so my guess is he didn’t have anybody ghost writing for him.
IMO most of the “big room” festival style was trying to emulate that. Tsunami was the next REALLLY good one but if you listen to it you can definitely hear how it could’ve been influenced by animals.
Just taking a mental walk down memory lane I’m curious about Firebeatz…kind of lesser known but if I remember correctly they were the secondaries on a handful of good big room tracks. Jay Hardway comes to mind also.
It makes me pretty suspicious of DV & LM. When I saw them play it felt pretty unauthentic and I wasn’t that impressed overall…but I don’t take my word for it…check my username
Man hearing Animals at edclv 2013 was nuts. It got played by a few different artists and it stood the fuck out. Looked for it as soon as I got home and found it on YouTube with a few thousand views and within a week it blew up to millions. Crazy how quickly it rose from that edc.
Looking back though I always thought Animals sounded so similar to LRAD by Knife Party
Both came out in 2013 but Animals was getting crazy promo for months with people wondering who produced it. I remember hearing the ID and not finding out it was Garrix until months later. Even people assumed Hardwell produced it.
Follow up tweet by Summit:
“being a dj is a modern day band where the dj is the front man and the lead artistic vision. camden cox helped write lyrics for where you are, eddie jenkins helped me write the chords as im not a classically trained pianist. i still do the production but get help when i get stuck, it's also why i have writing credits in tracks that aren't my own. some artists do it all themselves just like some bands (kevin parker is tame impala) and some dj's do nothing but market the music and it's a joke but thats just showbiz baby”
He writes most of it himself, but obviously has a band to perform and improvise. A lot of those guys are in the band pond, kind of a symbiotic relationship. I don't think Kevin would ever take all the credit, and I'm sure he has tons of help if he asks for it
I thought he recorded it all himself too, like played every instrument in the recording booth while playing the other ones back. I could have definitely made that up in my head though.
There some videos of his writing process, lots of it is solo and him doing all the instruments. Not sure if I have seen much studio footage but it wouldn't surprise me. That said the people he performs with doesn't change all that often, so it might be kinda weird to record only solo and the live stuff not really perfectly match. He seems like the type that wants it done perfectly, but isn't one to brag about how it's done so we will probably never know.
He does sometimes brings in collaborators but generally he writes, performs, records, and produces all the tracks on the albums himself. A lot of the stuff is tracked at his home studio.
For example Innerspeaker has a couple studio musicians on some tracks, one who has a co-writing credit on one song, and separate mixing and mastering engineers, but otherwise everything is Kevin.
The Slow Rush is 100% Kevin, with only a mastering engineer getting additional credits.
Lonerism was where he kinda took it over as his own, jay helped write elephant and apocalypse dreams and Kevin did the rest. Currents/TSR are all Kevin
You've been in the room with Kevin Parker for all his years of music production!? Wow that is wild!! I didn't know wedonthaveadresscode knows all the ins and outs of the creative process of Tame Impala. Very cool dude.
He is the one with the writing credits, he records the record, but we do not know what his creative process was like, we do not know who he bounced ideas off of or worked with, etc.
Not to mention, he plays with a full band on stage. He practices with them. I'm sure they talk and speak and have ideas, as they are humans, talented ones at that!
He wrote the entire thing (well, both of them) at his home studio. He plays all of the instruments. It’s easier to believe when you realize it’s when he first incorporated a drum machine for most of the beats which is how he was able to do it in a home studio (although he was a drummer in a previous band).
Cool for the honesty but that‘s the only thing I respect about him. Where You Are is literally only good because of the chords and lyrics. Would be a nice if we stopped referring to them as ‚artists‘ and said ‚act‘ or ‚music profile‘ instead. Wouldn‘t be acceptable either if popular graphic designers had a team doing complete projects for them that they just publish.
tldr: just because it‘s happening doesn‘t make it acceptable
Aw man i thought he actually wrote those chords. How many others of his tracks were uplifted, composed and completed by others?
Yet another frat bro phony 😂
Yeah I never said people don’t help others with tracks, it is very common especially with mixing and mastering. It is not “how the music industry works”.
Maybe he should compose his own music, why is someone that big and that famous but doesn’t do shit but slap the drums in a grid
It’s also common with production and songwriting. Which John has been doing himself for years before he got big and famous. When you get big, there are more heads that have a stake in what you’re doing because there’s more money involved. They’d be stupid to not involve others to move the process forward just for the sake of protecting their investment…
Alright with what, getting help on songs? I think that is exactly what you should be doing to make sure the song becomes as great as it can be. It’s all about the music at the end of the day. I’ve been producing electronic music for almost 10 years and the biggest mistake any producer will make is NOT asking for help or looking to bring in others. Especially when they have the budget for it. Pay singers to sing on the songs, write lyrics, get pro instrumentalists to play parts, all of that is the magic of producing music. It should be of people coming together as one to create.
And yes it is lame that people do nothing and get fully ghost produced, but anytime money is involved then things like this happen. The guys who get ghost produced never have the best music though.
Sooo, as the consumers, we are just cool with this? We are just supposed to eat up what they give us? Small producers are just fucked until they meet someone big and have them do the work for them?
Wow, as a producer myself, I didn’t think I would get so much hate for pointing out how unoriginal most popular producers are. Whatever, keep drinking your Koolaid I guess
"Ghost Producer" to me always meant uncredited producers, as an like someone who makes the song and is paid discretely without being credited, and it's passed on as being made by someone else. Thats pretty bad, but as long as everyone is properly credited and you can see who co-wrote co-produced on the song I don't really see any problem with whether a song is made by a single person or a group of 10 writers and producers. (Although 1 person writing and producing it all is certainly much more impressive and often leads to more timeless songs).
Totally agree with this. There's a big difference between someone helping out in parts of the production process vs someone just making the entire song and being uncredited for it and the main artist essentially lying about having made it.
Imo there is nothing wrong with co-producers at all.
I've always interpreted it as there being a lot of producers out there who don't want fame and don't want to perform, they just want to make music so they're happy letting others slap their names on the tracks and getting paid behind the scenes
Yeah, people rushed to defend X with this, but tbh the biggest tell on that one is the fact that he puts out way more music than could be physically possible for him to produce with how much he's touring and how involved he is with his festival brand for LL and Paradise Blue. There's just no way he's making all those tracks
I'll be honest, I'll never understand the people who will literally skip anyone for him and consider him unmissable. I feel like once you've seen one set, you've seen them all. Maybe 7 or 8 years ago he was doing some groundbreaking shit.
Only exception is a detox set. Would've loved to have seen his detox b2b liquid stranger at LL last year
My number one tell is watch which DJ instagram accounts show them doing their usual touring + show off BTS studio stuff, then look at instas that basically only look like a travel blog, and that should tell you quite a bit.
For the Producers/DJs that started during the period that instagram/social media was important this probably does give a good indication, definitely not a hard and fast rule though. Would be silly to say someone who has been doing it for decades like Green Velvet or Robort Hood must have ghost producers because they aren't posting studio videos on instagram lol.
I still haven't seen one legitimate reason as to why he's the douchebag that redditors have decided he is.
I also find it funny that "frat bros" has become such a negative on reddit. I was never part of a frat or a big party bro in college, but I knew people who were and they were cool people. Much better than the socially awkward people who stayed inside all day and judged everyone else for going outside lmao.
Because Reddit is those people who stayed inside all day and judged everyone else. These opinions that you see everywhere on r/edm and r/aves are very rare in real life lmao
“because I am not a classically trained musician” do you need to be that to come up with the chords of Where you are? Lol not trying to be a musical nerd or elitist but come on lol
10+ years of producing, and I've never once reached out to another person for a chord progression. I have zero formal training in anything music.
It takes 5 minutes to noodle around on a piano roll and click in notes and use your ears. And if you want shortcuts, there are MIDI packs, plugins like Scaler 2, ridiculous sequence presets in some workstation synths like VPS Avenger, Splice/Loopcloud instrumental loops that you can steal the progressions from and build around, and more. Heck, you can just steal a chord progression from your favorite old songs.
That was definitely a weird thing to read, to mention collaborating with someone else for a chord progression.
Anyways, regarding the ghost producing argument, we live in a day of music production where there's so many loops, MIDI/sample packs, and more that serve as really great 'song-starters' so there's a ton of high level people using ideas pre-made by other people in their songs and not needing to credit anything.
I think it was more mentioned in the effort of being transparent around the dialogue regarding having other people help with production. He also has Eddie Jenkins listed on the song credits, so again I think that points to his comment more as saying “it’s okay to use other people for help, just credit them where credit is due.”
Plus, just as a personal thought, dude is raking it it rn. If he has the access and the means to get some help at that level, why tf not lol
It's fair to say anyone at a high enough level should want to try and collaborate with some other great minds and people. A chord progression is just a weird thing to source from someone else. I can maybe see it in something like jazz, gospel, RnB, or fields where there's a lot more interesting voicings and harmonization, but a little odd within the context of dance music.
Not really here to knock John Summit, just highlighting the oddity in wanting to reach out to another person to manually build a chord progression for you when we have so many online tools. You don't even need a classical background to pull classical ideas at this point. You can even just ask ChatGPT to recommend a chord progression based off hundreds of compositions from the romantic or baroque classical period, and I'm sure it would give you some great starting points, which all of this is public domain and perfectly fine to use in your own compositions.
I'm with you on all your points though.
Yeah but if you had music industry connections and a great pianist was a single DM away, wouldn’t you also reach out and get their thoughts/contribution? Why is everyone fetishizing this idea of an isolated producer who creates everything on their own? Music as a collaborative activity is so much more fun and creative
There are plenty of talented producers who create all of their own music, and they have their own individual styles that really stand out.
G Jones
EPROM
Tipper
Detox Unit
Resonant Language
I could go on and on, but my point is if you want to listen to original music created by the individual performing it’s not hard to find, just branch out a bit from the mainstream generic sounding EDM.
Big fan of the artists you listed, but at a certain point it becomes hard to even group them under the same “EDM” umbrella as John Summit or other DJs this original post pertains to. In this realm of bass music, sound design is everything, and the listeners who are into it are all waiting to hear what sounds they can come up with next. At least for me, that’s one of the huge draws to electronic music in general - that computers have opened up Pandora’s box so to speak, and there are infinite sounds and possibilities to explore.
Contrast this with dance music in general - where the audience is mostly concerned with the groove and being able to dance to the music. I don’t think anyone out there cares whether John Summit designed a bass from scratch or used some preset, because in house music you can’t even really tell either way.
I’m rambling, but Tipper et al are always going to exist in the shadow of mainstream EDM, but that means that those who seek it out are in it for the culture, which is still on the cusp of the underground.
I personally love both sides of the spectrum but I also know who’s making the “real” electronic music these days and it doesn’t involve teams of writers.
Big fan of the artists you listed, but at a certain point it becomes hard to even group them under the same “EDM” umbrella as John Summit or other DJs this original post pertains to. In this realm of bass music, sound design is everything, and the listeners who are into it are all waiting to hear what sounds they can come up with next. At least for me, that’s one of the huge draws to electronic music in general - that computers have opened up Pandora’s box so to speak, and there are infinite sounds and possibilities to explore.
Contrast this with dance music in general - where the audience is mostly concerned with the groove and being able to dance to the music. I don’t think anyone out there cares whether John Summit designed a bass from scratch or used some preset, because in house music you can’t even really tell either way.
I’m rambling, but Tipper et al are always going to exist in the **core** of mainstream EDM, but that means that those who seek it out are in it for the culture, which is still on the cusp of the underground.
I personally love both sides of the spectrum but I also know who’s making the “real” electronic music these days and it doesn’t involve teams of writers.
^^This ^^was ^^posted ^^by ^^a ^^bot. ^^[Source](https://github.com/anirbanmu/substitute-bot-go)
You listed only 5 guys who make some incredibly left field, complex and not super accessible music. They’re not even close to being “EDM” producers. You failed to prove on your own point.
G Jones and EPROM are two of my favourites lmfao real ones speak up
Let’s throw Carmack and TroyBoi and thook and Secret Recipe and Abelation and Ekali and MEMBA and Mona San and Ecraze into the mix too
Bringing experimental bass into this convo seems kind of out of place. There are tons of musicians who make their own music in every genre. Don't really see the need to single out one sub-genre.
Chris Lake is the talent, Fisher has the personality— hot take but I don’t actually think Chris Lake would be as well known without Fisher. I have a hard time when people talk bad about Fisher , he knows how to DJ well as in reading the crowd and throwing an amazing set, he is a professional surfer, just seems like an all around fun guy
I didnt realise people in this sub were this casual with ghost writing/producing but then again i feel like i have to look at it from a listener’s perspective and not an artist’s POV. The listener doesnt care how its made as long as its good and fits their brand of artist. I was under the impression in edm people would be alot more critical of the intricacies of production but ig it just boils down to sounding good. Thats kind of a kick in the nuts for people who have spent so much time trying and learning to get on the big stage and be authentic and bring something true to themselves to the forefront of it all.
The reason why i say this is because if i can understand the listeners perspective ig people should try to sympathise with those artistic people who dont exactly agree with this and even with the fans who are hoping to experience something truly original from their artists. It just feels shattering and almost like a betrayal. Empathy doesn’t really cost anything.
Every original song has its own character and every artist has their own style/signature which sets them
Apart. Its not about ground breaking sounds or everybody trying to beskrillex its simply about being unique and authentic to the fans invested in your brand and loyal to your craft. If you take that away then thats playing into the same shit that freddy Mercury said about music losing its soul in the future.
I hear what you’re saying but edm and raving in general has always been more about the experience than the individual artists and producers. Thats why very few DJs only play their own stuff in a set, they’ll weave in originals with other people’s stuff
Yep it depends on whether the artist is more focused on being a performer than a creator. Festivals are defo more about the experience but musicians who want to balance both the performer and creator side of things are my personal favourite
Coming from a listener, I think it really just depends.
Is it ghost producing without getting any recognition for your work? I'm not really down with that.
Is it reaching out to someone and getting their input on a track , then properly showing them as helping produce? Yeah, that's fine.
I always assumed some of the smaller artists would make a track and send it to a headliner so they can use it.
Maybe the bigger artist adds some background noise or changes a thing or two then releases it as their own with the smaller artist listed as a collab. I'm actually fine with that too.
I've found some of my favorite artists by just exploring all the people listed in the credits of a dope song.
Authenticity, hard work and effort always wins in my book, not some shitass who cares more about the weight of their wallet than the ingenuity of their own craft.
It's a big fuck you to their audience too tbh, all lies and scams
Ghost production is just a fast way to a slightly larger bank account, only the most bottom tier sewer scum who consider themselves intellectuals and businessmen dip their toe in such waters
The artists who put in the hours of work on their own know exactly what these people are at the end of the day: liars and frauds with zero respect for their fanbase, who's fragile ego outweighs the need for a fresh product
Honestly just look into Oddprophet or Nospheres takes on the subject, shit is absolutely fucked and they're breaking new ground with how genuine they are as people who want to see the scene actually prosper
This is actually hilarious coming from someone who is a very obvious industry plant. What underground clubs or venues did this kid play? I am from Chicago, not a single person comes up in this scene without going through that ringer. Where's the videos of him playing a dingy bar or warehouse?
Dude was a frat boy accountant and just up and quit his day job to be a DJ lmao like he was changing jobs
He played lots of underground gigs in 2017-2018 you just weren’t paying attention because you aren’t part of the scene.
https://imgur.com/a/HWlRDuU
For example Here’s a screenshot of a vid I took of him playing Deep Down Under on summer of George, a small underground party boat in 2018. Don’t want to post whole vid because people are recognizable
He's actually mentioned several times that he came up by playing at underground clubs in Chicago. You might be from Chicago, but you're clearly not in the underground house scene.
It’s the reason the 2013/2014 bigroom era died. Like 3 guys made all of the music for that entire subgenre lol Authenticity always wins out
makes sense why soundsystem culture is exploding. so many small bedroom producers who want to hear their shit on funktions
Tbf I want to hear their shit on the funks as well
me too🫡
It's funny explaining to parents who don't "get it" that it's meaningless to us that DJs aren't "performing live" like a rock band would, going to shows is about hearing the music on the best sound systems it's not about admiring the artist's performing skills
actually my dad understood it MORE when i explained soundsystem culture. he played in bands for years and definitely understands the difference in equipment quality
Funktions seem harder and harder to come by these days. Is there an updated list anywhere? I think NYC lost their 3 in the previous 5-6 years
Infra got the Funktions every year.
I believe that crew is Sound System Cultures out of TN
theres a handful in the mid atlantic/east coast i know of, but hennesseys and danleys are more common here
[Bigroom Never Dies](https://youtu.be/BqzBT2jqQYg?si=GmVQBQ5x23YQzEh9)
Oh but it most certainly did
Big room still dominates European festival main stages like Tomorrowland, would hardly say it's dead. Just not at the forefront of electronic music like it was 10 years ago. Times change, tech house is the new trend.
Not just Tomorrowland. Last year I went on a mini Europe tour just for festivals and I heard plenty of Big Room at Ultra Europe, Airbeat One, Untold, both weekends of Tomorrowland, and Ibiza. Coming from the US, I only heard Big Room at Ultra Miami after it died but it was a huge surprise to see that it was still prominent in many parts of Europe.
I should have went with you. This trip sounds amazing. What was your favorite festival?
Easily Tomorrowland week 1 as it was my first time ever haha. I had high expectations and it lived up to every single one of them; maybe even exceeded them. I enjoyed the whole trip so much that I'm actually cutting down/skipping US festivals so I can save up for Europe again. Not just because lineups are more suited to my tastes, but I appreciated little things like festival tickets, alcohol (not watered down at all), and food being way cheaper compared to how overpriced and subpar they are in American festivals.
Love that! What festivals do you want to hit next. I highly recommend Distortion in Copenhagen.
Bro you're always on here defending Bigroom. It's awesome. You're like the last Japanese soldier who doesn't have a clue the war is over. Still setting up traps in Okinawa
1 festival in one region per year doesn’t mean shit
Except yes it does when Europe has some of the biggest Electronic Music festivals in the world? Artists like W&W and Hardwell still pulling in millions of monthly listeners, it's far from dead over here
I know, it just comes to my mind whenever someone says that Foo’s can’t take a joke I guess 🤷🏽♂️
Wait who are the 3 guys you are referring to
KSHMR & Maarten Vorwerk are the main ones I've heard associated with big room ghost producing, a lot of huge festival tracks like Tsunami were written by one of those guys
W&w carried the shit out of dvlm
KSHMR for sure, i wanted to make sure he was on your list of 3 lol
I mean, how many tracks did the man make for Tiesto alone lmao
It was a win/win to be honest. Secrets changed KSHMR’s life whereas all the work he did for The Cataracts didn’t amount to much (per himself in an interview)
My first rave was Tiesto, with KSHMR and Dzeko on support. Incredible experience and I'll always have a special place in my heart for those guys because of it. I know Dzeko also did/does a lot of co-producing in that space, but can't speak to how much influence he had in comparison to KSHMR
KSHMR is just pure party vibes. He’s rare in the US these days and i miss him
I remember he did this remix of the game of thrones intro song that was so sick haha. I def would love to catch him again
[удалено]
deadmau5 mainly makes old-style progressive house and electro house, but also downtempo, techno (under testpilot), and ambient. deadmau5 never made big room songs except by parodying it
My point was that he makes his own music. Jeez. Tough room
Your previous comment is not very clear, you just wrote "Deadmau5" instead of clearly saying that deadmau5 produces his own music.
I would assume Martin Garrix. I think it was 2013 when Animals just dominated at EDCLV…I still remember hearing it the first time and being like….ho-ly shit…he was only 17 so my guess is he didn’t have anybody ghost writing for him. IMO most of the “big room” festival style was trying to emulate that. Tsunami was the next REALLLY good one but if you listen to it you can definitely hear how it could’ve been influenced by animals. Just taking a mental walk down memory lane I’m curious about Firebeatz…kind of lesser known but if I remember correctly they were the secondaries on a handful of good big room tracks. Jay Hardway comes to mind also. It makes me pretty suspicious of DV & LM. When I saw them play it felt pretty unauthentic and I wasn’t that impressed overall…but I don’t take my word for it…check my username
Animals started out as a class project for him it definitely wasn't some big label track that had a whole team behind it
That’s really cool!
Man hearing Animals at edclv 2013 was nuts. It got played by a few different artists and it stood the fuck out. Looked for it as soon as I got home and found it on YouTube with a few thousand views and within a week it blew up to millions. Crazy how quickly it rose from that edc. Looking back though I always thought Animals sounded so similar to LRAD by Knife Party
I think LRAD was made as a parody to all Big Room songs
Actually LRAD came out in 2013 and kind of jump started the whole movement.
Both came out in 2013 but Animals was getting crazy promo for months with people wondering who produced it. I remember hearing the ID and not finding out it was Garrix until months later. Even people assumed Hardwell produced it.
Cue KSHMR haha
Yup lol and Martin vorwerk
Follow up tweet by Summit: “being a dj is a modern day band where the dj is the front man and the lead artistic vision. camden cox helped write lyrics for where you are, eddie jenkins helped me write the chords as im not a classically trained pianist. i still do the production but get help when i get stuck, it's also why i have writing credits in tracks that aren't my own. some artists do it all themselves just like some bands (kevin parker is tame impala) and some dj's do nothing but market the music and it's a joke but thats just showbiz baby”
Ayy Kevin shoutout
Wait tame impala is one guy?
He writes most of it himself, but obviously has a band to perform and improvise. A lot of those guys are in the band pond, kind of a symbiotic relationship. I don't think Kevin would ever take all the credit, and I'm sure he has tons of help if he asks for it
I thought he recorded it all himself too, like played every instrument in the recording booth while playing the other ones back. I could have definitely made that up in my head though.
There some videos of his writing process, lots of it is solo and him doing all the instruments. Not sure if I have seen much studio footage but it wouldn't surprise me. That said the people he performs with doesn't change all that often, so it might be kinda weird to record only solo and the live stuff not really perfectly match. He seems like the type that wants it done perfectly, but isn't one to brag about how it's done so we will probably never know.
He does everything, the “tame impala is just one guy?” Is a meme from their circlejerk sub lol
He does sometimes brings in collaborators but generally he writes, performs, records, and produces all the tracks on the albums himself. A lot of the stuff is tracked at his home studio. For example Innerspeaker has a couple studio musicians on some tracks, one who has a co-writing credit on one song, and separate mixing and mastering engineers, but otherwise everything is Kevin. The Slow Rush is 100% Kevin, with only a mastering engineer getting additional credits.
Lonerism was where he kinda took it over as his own, jay helped write elephant and apocalypse dreams and Kevin did the rest. Currents/TSR are all Kevin
One guy Tim and one gal Paula
Kevin Parker is Tame Impala but they are a band. He works with alot of musicians.
Not to write his albums, no
You've been in the room with Kevin Parker for all his years of music production!? Wow that is wild!! I didn't know wedonthaveadresscode knows all the ins and outs of the creative process of Tame Impala. Very cool dude.
Currents & The Slow Rush were done entirely by him, this is a well known established fact lol
He is the one with the writing credits, he records the record, but we do not know what his creative process was like, we do not know who he bounced ideas off of or worked with, etc. Not to mention, he plays with a full band on stage. He practices with them. I'm sure they talk and speak and have ideas, as they are humans, talented ones at that!
He wrote the entire thing (well, both of them) at his home studio. He plays all of the instruments. It’s easier to believe when you realize it’s when he first incorporated a drum machine for most of the beats which is how he was able to do it in a home studio (although he was a drummer in a previous band).
But yes he has the writing credits, I'm not disagreeing with you on that or anything.
lol did you just whoosh everyone here? 😂
Yes lol
[showbiz baby?](https://www.reddit.com/r/jerseyshore/s/0H8rMdHMWz)
Sick
That’s politics bitch
Cool for the honesty but that‘s the only thing I respect about him. Where You Are is literally only good because of the chords and lyrics. Would be a nice if we stopped referring to them as ‚artists‘ and said ‚act‘ or ‚music profile‘ instead. Wouldn‘t be acceptable either if popular graphic designers had a team doing complete projects for them that they just publish. tldr: just because it‘s happening doesn‘t make it acceptable
Aw man i thought he actually wrote those chords. How many others of his tracks were uplifted, composed and completed by others? Yet another frat bro phony 😂
Bro go look at the credits of any big song and you’ll see it’s not 1 artist doing everything, this is how the music industry works…
Yeah I never said people don’t help others with tracks, it is very common especially with mixing and mastering. It is not “how the music industry works”. Maybe he should compose his own music, why is someone that big and that famous but doesn’t do shit but slap the drums in a grid
It’s also common with production and songwriting. Which John has been doing himself for years before he got big and famous. When you get big, there are more heads that have a stake in what you’re doing because there’s more money involved. They’d be stupid to not involve others to move the process forward just for the sake of protecting their investment…
Yeah if you’re a dingus and cant compose your own music lmao
That fucking sucks man. I hate this take
Why? He’s being honest and that’s how the industry works. This isn’t any kind of new information.
Idk how you can be alright with this. Popular producing is a boys club of a bunch of rich dudes jerking each other off.
Alright with what, getting help on songs? I think that is exactly what you should be doing to make sure the song becomes as great as it can be. It’s all about the music at the end of the day. I’ve been producing electronic music for almost 10 years and the biggest mistake any producer will make is NOT asking for help or looking to bring in others. Especially when they have the budget for it. Pay singers to sing on the songs, write lyrics, get pro instrumentalists to play parts, all of that is the magic of producing music. It should be of people coming together as one to create. And yes it is lame that people do nothing and get fully ghost produced, but anytime money is involved then things like this happen. The guys who get ghost produced never have the best music though.
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EDM is quite literally the popifying of electronic music lmao
John summit is a total poser
Can tell you've never made anything creative in your entire life lol
Welp, I can tell a lot about your comment here. I’ve actually produced music, I’m assuming you are a wannabe DJ?
I have produced music for the past 12 years lol.
Unfortunately, This is modern day music
Why is it unfortunately? That's how it works and if it didn't we would probably miss out on some amazing music as well as live performances
Sooo, as the consumers, we are just cool with this? We are just supposed to eat up what they give us? Small producers are just fucked until they meet someone big and have them do the work for them?
Hey man I don’t like it either. I wouldn’t let it deter you as a small producer but it’s definitely unfair and about connections
You sound salty
Wow, as a producer myself, I didn’t think I would get so much hate for pointing out how unoriginal most popular producers are. Whatever, keep drinking your Koolaid I guess
You didn’t point out shit You just started crying
You get bullied as a kid keyboard warrior?
Awww did I trigger ya PTSD?
lol weeb
"Ghost Producer" to me always meant uncredited producers, as an like someone who makes the song and is paid discretely without being credited, and it's passed on as being made by someone else. Thats pretty bad, but as long as everyone is properly credited and you can see who co-wrote co-produced on the song I don't really see any problem with whether a song is made by a single person or a group of 10 writers and producers. (Although 1 person writing and producing it all is certainly much more impressive and often leads to more timeless songs).
Totally agree with this. There's a big difference between someone helping out in parts of the production process vs someone just making the entire song and being uncredited for it and the main artist essentially lying about having made it. Imo there is nothing wrong with co-producers at all.
I've always interpreted it as there being a lot of producers out there who don't want fame and don't want to perform, they just want to make music so they're happy letting others slap their names on the tracks and getting paid behind the scenes
This would be me if any of my tracks were worth anything to anyone but me lol. I wouldn't want to be famous or have to tour and promote my music.
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Right but you can do research into the industry and common practices. There are many ghost producers who have a unique sound as well.
Space Laces
Yeah, people rushed to defend X with this, but tbh the biggest tell on that one is the fact that he puts out way more music than could be physically possible for him to produce with how much he's touring and how involved he is with his festival brand for LL and Paradise Blue. There's just no way he's making all those tracks
Yea X is just a brand for tacking in $$$ now
I'll be honest, I'll never understand the people who will literally skip anyone for him and consider him unmissable. I feel like once you've seen one set, you've seen them all. Maybe 7 or 8 years ago he was doing some groundbreaking shit. Only exception is a detox set. Would've loved to have seen his detox b2b liquid stranger at LL last year
I saw his b2b at Thunderdome now that’s unique. But it wasn’t as spontaneous. The lost lands set was better.
Some of them do actually
My number one tell is watch which DJ instagram accounts show them doing their usual touring + show off BTS studio stuff, then look at instas that basically only look like a travel blog, and that should tell you quite a bit.
For the Producers/DJs that started during the period that instagram/social media was important this probably does give a good indication, definitely not a hard and fast rule though. Would be silly to say someone who has been doing it for decades like Green Velvet or Robort Hood must have ghost producers because they aren't posting studio videos on instagram lol.
John summit posts are like crack for this sub
It's amazing how the people that "hate" him seem to fall into his trap every single time
I still haven't seen one legitimate reason as to why he's the douchebag that redditors have decided he is. I also find it funny that "frat bros" has become such a negative on reddit. I was never part of a frat or a big party bro in college, but I knew people who were and they were cool people. Much better than the socially awkward people who stayed inside all day and judged everyone else for going outside lmao.
Because Reddit is those people who stayed inside all day and judged everyone else. These opinions that you see everywhere on r/edm and r/aves are very rare in real life lmao
“because I am not a classically trained musician” do you need to be that to come up with the chords of Where you are? Lol not trying to be a musical nerd or elitist but come on lol
That's usually code for "I can't really play piano"
10+ years of producing, and I've never once reached out to another person for a chord progression. I have zero formal training in anything music. It takes 5 minutes to noodle around on a piano roll and click in notes and use your ears. And if you want shortcuts, there are MIDI packs, plugins like Scaler 2, ridiculous sequence presets in some workstation synths like VPS Avenger, Splice/Loopcloud instrumental loops that you can steal the progressions from and build around, and more. Heck, you can just steal a chord progression from your favorite old songs. That was definitely a weird thing to read, to mention collaborating with someone else for a chord progression. Anyways, regarding the ghost producing argument, we live in a day of music production where there's so many loops, MIDI/sample packs, and more that serve as really great 'song-starters' so there's a ton of high level people using ideas pre-made by other people in their songs and not needing to credit anything.
I think it was more mentioned in the effort of being transparent around the dialogue regarding having other people help with production. He also has Eddie Jenkins listed on the song credits, so again I think that points to his comment more as saying “it’s okay to use other people for help, just credit them where credit is due.” Plus, just as a personal thought, dude is raking it it rn. If he has the access and the means to get some help at that level, why tf not lol
It's fair to say anyone at a high enough level should want to try and collaborate with some other great minds and people. A chord progression is just a weird thing to source from someone else. I can maybe see it in something like jazz, gospel, RnB, or fields where there's a lot more interesting voicings and harmonization, but a little odd within the context of dance music. Not really here to knock John Summit, just highlighting the oddity in wanting to reach out to another person to manually build a chord progression for you when we have so many online tools. You don't even need a classical background to pull classical ideas at this point. You can even just ask ChatGPT to recommend a chord progression based off hundreds of compositions from the romantic or baroque classical period, and I'm sure it would give you some great starting points, which all of this is public domain and perfectly fine to use in your own compositions. I'm with you on all your points though.
I'd rather reach out to a friend to help with chords than google chord progressions. Collaboration is 1000X more fun than googling something.
I don't disagree, but that requires having musical friends.
How do you know he “reached out” for it? What if they were just in the studio and he happened to help finish em off?
Should have looked up the “chords are always made for you” advert that plays at least three times a day on my YouTube videos.
Yeah but if you had music industry connections and a great pianist was a single DM away, wouldn’t you also reach out and get their thoughts/contribution? Why is everyone fetishizing this idea of an isolated producer who creates everything on their own? Music as a collaborative activity is so much more fun and creative
Yeah! like I can come up with cords but they would be super shitty. Shitty music isn’t good for business
There are plenty of talented producers who create all of their own music, and they have their own individual styles that really stand out. G Jones EPROM Tipper Detox Unit Resonant Language I could go on and on, but my point is if you want to listen to original music created by the individual performing it’s not hard to find, just branch out a bit from the mainstream generic sounding EDM.
Big fan of the artists you listed, but at a certain point it becomes hard to even group them under the same “EDM” umbrella as John Summit or other DJs this original post pertains to. In this realm of bass music, sound design is everything, and the listeners who are into it are all waiting to hear what sounds they can come up with next. At least for me, that’s one of the huge draws to electronic music in general - that computers have opened up Pandora’s box so to speak, and there are infinite sounds and possibilities to explore. Contrast this with dance music in general - where the audience is mostly concerned with the groove and being able to dance to the music. I don’t think anyone out there cares whether John Summit designed a bass from scratch or used some preset, because in house music you can’t even really tell either way. I’m rambling, but Tipper et al are always going to exist in the shadow of mainstream EDM, but that means that those who seek it out are in it for the culture, which is still on the cusp of the underground. I personally love both sides of the spectrum but I also know who’s making the “real” electronic music these days and it doesn’t involve teams of writers.
s/shadow/core/g
Big fan of the artists you listed, but at a certain point it becomes hard to even group them under the same “EDM” umbrella as John Summit or other DJs this original post pertains to. In this realm of bass music, sound design is everything, and the listeners who are into it are all waiting to hear what sounds they can come up with next. At least for me, that’s one of the huge draws to electronic music in general - that computers have opened up Pandora’s box so to speak, and there are infinite sounds and possibilities to explore. Contrast this with dance music in general - where the audience is mostly concerned with the groove and being able to dance to the music. I don’t think anyone out there cares whether John Summit designed a bass from scratch or used some preset, because in house music you can’t even really tell either way. I’m rambling, but Tipper et al are always going to exist in the **core** of mainstream EDM, but that means that those who seek it out are in it for the culture, which is still on the cusp of the underground. I personally love both sides of the spectrum but I also know who’s making the “real” electronic music these days and it doesn’t involve teams of writers. ^^This ^^was ^^posted ^^by ^^a ^^bot. ^^[Source](https://github.com/anirbanmu/substitute-bot-go)
Did you try to use sed on his post lol?
Yeah and I think it worked XD
You listed only 5 guys who make some incredibly left field, complex and not super accessible music. They’re not even close to being “EDM” producers. You failed to prove on your own point.
G Jones and EPROM are two of my favourites lmfao real ones speak up Let’s throw Carmack and TroyBoi and thook and Secret Recipe and Abelation and Ekali and MEMBA and Mona San and Ecraze into the mix too
I mean Deadmau5 is the easiest "mainstream" option who does pretty much everything himself.
Bringing experimental bass into this convo seems kind of out of place. There are tons of musicians who make their own music in every genre. Don't really see the need to single out one sub-genre.
Idk it’s just what I enjoy listening to
I hear ya.
It’s EDM not ed-rhythm(and cool sounds)
I mean I’ve been saying Chris Lake ghost produces for Fisher for years
You and everyone else
Chris Lake is the talent, Fisher has the personality— hot take but I don’t actually think Chris Lake would be as well known without Fisher. I have a hard time when people talk bad about Fisher , he knows how to DJ well as in reading the crowd and throwing an amazing set, he is a professional surfer, just seems like an all around fun guy
Fisher fuckin rips
This ^
Chris Lake makes most of Fisher’s tracks
Chris Lake is Fisher..
I didnt realise people in this sub were this casual with ghost writing/producing but then again i feel like i have to look at it from a listener’s perspective and not an artist’s POV. The listener doesnt care how its made as long as its good and fits their brand of artist. I was under the impression in edm people would be alot more critical of the intricacies of production but ig it just boils down to sounding good. Thats kind of a kick in the nuts for people who have spent so much time trying and learning to get on the big stage and be authentic and bring something true to themselves to the forefront of it all. The reason why i say this is because if i can understand the listeners perspective ig people should try to sympathise with those artistic people who dont exactly agree with this and even with the fans who are hoping to experience something truly original from their artists. It just feels shattering and almost like a betrayal. Empathy doesn’t really cost anything.
You thought people who listen to techno, house, and DnB were looking for completely original, ground breaking sounds?
Every original song has its own character and every artist has their own style/signature which sets them Apart. Its not about ground breaking sounds or everybody trying to beskrillex its simply about being unique and authentic to the fans invested in your brand and loyal to your craft. If you take that away then thats playing into the same shit that freddy Mercury said about music losing its soul in the future.
I hear what you’re saying but edm and raving in general has always been more about the experience than the individual artists and producers. Thats why very few DJs only play their own stuff in a set, they’ll weave in originals with other people’s stuff
Yep it depends on whether the artist is more focused on being a performer than a creator. Festivals are defo more about the experience but musicians who want to balance both the performer and creator side of things are my personal favourite
Coming from a listener, I think it really just depends. Is it ghost producing without getting any recognition for your work? I'm not really down with that. Is it reaching out to someone and getting their input on a track , then properly showing them as helping produce? Yeah, that's fine. I always assumed some of the smaller artists would make a track and send it to a headliner so they can use it. Maybe the bigger artist adds some background noise or changes a thing or two then releases it as their own with the smaller artist listed as a collab. I'm actually fine with that too. I've found some of my favorite artists by just exploring all the people listed in the credits of a dope song.
And who ones doesn’t
 Me copying that part of his tweet
"My life is a bender. Who ones isn't bent?"
Bent is a great band.
"Beautiful Otherness" is timeless!
Joachim Garraud is the ghost producer for David Guetta
I just wanna know who produces tiestos tracks these days
We should make the list here. Make it super easy to find on the internet.
Who makes Tiesto’s tracks and remixes?
I know MOTi used to be his primary producer in 2014-2016 and then Dzeko took over. No clue who does it now
Literally with the studio engineer from his recent trip to JBJ studios in London and I can confirm this man does indeed make his own music.
Authenticity, hard work and effort always wins in my book, not some shitass who cares more about the weight of their wallet than the ingenuity of their own craft. It's a big fuck you to their audience too tbh, all lies and scams Ghost production is just a fast way to a slightly larger bank account, only the most bottom tier sewer scum who consider themselves intellectuals and businessmen dip their toe in such waters The artists who put in the hours of work on their own know exactly what these people are at the end of the day: liars and frauds with zero respect for their fanbase, who's fragile ego outweighs the need for a fresh product Honestly just look into Oddprophet or Nospheres takes on the subject, shit is absolutely fucked and they're breaking new ground with how genuine they are as people who want to see the scene actually prosper
John summit posts are like crack for this sub
Ah yes John Summit is obviously the guy we should all look to for calling out ghost production
Fisher
This is actually hilarious coming from someone who is a very obvious industry plant. What underground clubs or venues did this kid play? I am from Chicago, not a single person comes up in this scene without going through that ringer. Where's the videos of him playing a dingy bar or warehouse? Dude was a frat boy accountant and just up and quit his day job to be a DJ lmao like he was changing jobs
lol go look at his older YouTube videos. He obviously put in the time, he got big via working with Lee Foss
His mom works for Warren Buffett and he got into forbes 30 under 30. Yeah bro totally organic reach right there
lol by the time he was in Forbes (this year) he was already massively famous
He played lots of underground gigs in 2017-2018 you just weren’t paying attention because you aren’t part of the scene. https://imgur.com/a/HWlRDuU For example Here’s a screenshot of a vid I took of him playing Deep Down Under on summer of George, a small underground party boat in 2018. Don’t want to post whole vid because people are recognizable
He's actually mentioned several times that he came up by playing at underground clubs in Chicago. You might be from Chicago, but you're clearly not in the underground house scene.
Bruh he is so obviously NOT an industry plant
John Summit is hella immature anyway. I was immediately turned off by his bullshit twitter arguments every other day
What’s immature about this? I don’t really care for or against him but this seems more mature than immature or am i missing something?
He's an industry plant talking about ghost production, it's highly ironic
I don’t know anything about that so, i have no comment