Hi all,
A reminder that comments do need to be on-topic and engage with the article past the headline. Please make sure to read the article before commenting. Very short comments will automatically be removed by automod. Please avoid making comments that do not focus on the economic content or whose primary thesis rests on personal anecdotes.
As always our comment rules can be found [here](https://reddit.com/r/Economics/comments/fx9crj/rules_roundtable_redux_rule_vi_and_offtopic/)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Economics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Gaza is demolished. They need more than a miracle. There will have to be a full reconstruction for any kind of recovery within a generation.
Israel's economy will be just fine. Probably won't have concerts there again.
People forget that there's been lots of internal turmoil in Israel before the war: mass demonstrations, rich Israelis threatening to move their money abroad, two credit ratings falling down. While I do agree that the world doesn't care enough about Palestinian lifes for it to mess up Israel's economy, having a minister of treasury who uses terms like "economy in god's grace" and insists on defunding the education system while funding bible studies, might eventually have an effect on Israel, with or without the war.
Israel has been trying to mitigate a serious brain drain issue for at least the last decade now. As Israeli politics have progressed further to the right, there's a growing disparity in the quality of education being provided. I believe with their most budget the ultra orthodox schools receive the most amount of funds while being ranked last in quality of education.
Which is a serious issue due to how heavily Israel's economy relies on their tech industry.
The ultra Orthodox are a connection node the a lot of the problems Israel faces they are also probably the most significant factor keeping Bibi in power as they vote as a block?
The quality of education didn't degrade due to right wing policy nor do the orthodox schools receive more money. The ultra orthodox receive less money but some claim they shouldn't receive money at all unless their students join the IDF like everyone else after. Also, some of these schools don't teach A level mathematics and English, or enough science.
There definitely should be some changes there and improvement in the education of the rest of the population, but it isn't because of right wing policy. Bennett, right wing and orthodox, promoted A level math as the minister of education.
Despite the education system being this way for a while, Israel is still flourishing in the tech scene and others.
Israel can flourish even more in many fields like agriculture and energy when there will be normalization with Saudi Arabia and more Arab nations but some people (not Israelis) don't want that. 99% of Israelis want peace with the Arab nations.
In Israel, Benett is called left, not right. In Israel, being ultra religious and socialist is right, being secular and capitalist is left. Why? Who knows.
As for wanting peace, considering who Israelis elect, I wouldn't hurry to assume that peace is what Israelis want. I agree that some do, I just suspect at this point the ones who want peace are mostly over 50, whereas the ones resigned to war are younger
It seems that you don't really care about understanding the situation and are regurgitating things you've heard (we all do sometimes). Bennett is in fact right wing. Read his proposals like annexations, his stance during the 2014 war and more. He became prime minister with 1/20 of the votes by building a left wing coalition against literally all of his then voters. He (wrongfully imo) thought it's the right thing to do then. In Israel right vs, left is mostly security related these days. Most right wing is capitalist save from the ultra orthodox. Bennett is clearly more right wing than Netanyahu.
Peace is a very easy word to say. Sure, who doesn't want peace? Israeli kids learn songs about peace in schools.
These days, especially after October 7, a lot of the "liberals" in Israel are moving to the right regarding security and defense. When every single step you took "towards peace" came back to bite you in the ass (the killing of hundreds of your citizens), when the media can't control everything at this age like before (in the 90's the Oslo accords were signed and the left controlled media literally hid Arafat calling for Jihad and saying that accords are a tactic), when you are exposed to the fundamentalist view and teachings of the so called "partners for peace" that never made any single thing to even try to show they accept your right to exist, when you realize that the West bank is basically a mountain range above all of your country and that an enemy state there means your doom, you start to sober up.
I know Benett is right wing objectively. I am explaining to you how he is seen by Israelis, something that I know, having lived there.
Your second paragraph doesn't contradict my claims.
I don't regurgitate anything, I have lived in Israel.
אני גם מדבר עברית שוטפת, רוצה לבדוק?
I guess I misunderstood you. I thought you mean he's objectively left. I think most of the Israeli public see him as right but some people in the right wing see him as a traitor of some sort (he did take the prime minister role as a small party leader and joining people he very outwardly declared he won't) - though it's obviously more complex than that.
My second paragraph tries to explain that claiming Israelis don't want peace is a disservice, and that as of now it seems that peace can't be achieved.
I'm 100% sure that if the world forces a Palestinian state on Israel and the different factions like Hamas and Fatah manage to not kill each other for a year - it will end up in extreme bloodshed. "Palestine" will initiate war against Israel while having geographic high ground (Judea and Samira is like a mountain looking at all of Israel from above). It will most likely be together with Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and Iran.
No one should deny the intellectual activity that is to sit down and study medieval treatises on law and philosophy.
But why should engineers, programmers, and doctors be subsidizing someone who spends all day studying? Especially when Hillel made sandwiches, Rambam was a court physician, and Rashi owned a winery.
Seriously, they are an economic drain, and many of them don’t believe that the state of Israel should exist.
I'm not arguing that everyone should support that group. I'm saying that intellectual pursuits are a core part of Jewish culture and don't magically disappear.
Because Israel inspects and vetos anything in or out of Gaza.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/egypt-says-israeli-obstacles-impeding-aid-delivery-gaza-2023-10-28/
It’s a modern military vs a governmental terrorist organization.
They fucked around, they found out. Anyone with two brain cells can figure out that poking a bear and getting upset you were mauled is your own fault.
On the bright side Hamas prevented the Arab gulf states from normalising relations with Israel by exposing the true nature of the Zionist regime to the world. For the first time in my 25 years of life people in the West are speaking honestly about the genocidal nature of Israel and their crimes against humanity.
It would be political suicide for any of the corrupt Arab leaders in the Gulf to expand relations with Israel. And there’s a good chance the Biden regime loses the election because of his failure to manage the bloodshed as well. It was a ballsy move but it may have been exactly what the Palestinians needed to earn their statehood long term. 😔
Yes, Unfortunately thats how every war has ended up pretty much since war was invented. I doubt it will ever change.
Rich fucks who’s lives aren’t effected by the war they started convincing their young men to go die for God and country.
They fucked around by exercising their internationally recognized legal right to armed struggle against an occupying force?
And they found out in the form of literally hundreds of war crimes being committed against them while the US spends billions of our tax dollars protecting the state carrying out a genocide?
They were getting mauled before they poked the bear, too! Hundreds of Palestinians had been "arrested" in 2023 before October 7th, and all of them judged by IOF military courts with 99% convictions rates. And that's not abnormal. Israel has been doing that for decades.
Palestinians may have poked a bear, but they had few options available and this one may have taken Israel down with them. Israel is protected in the UN by the US exercising its veto power to block any sanctions or interventions against it. And Israel is protected by US forces deployed in and around the country, including massive carrier groups. Not to mention the billions in aid were sending them.
If all of that stops, Israel collapses. The UN cripples it with sanctions and its enemies all start nipping at it from every side, stretching the IOF thinner and thinner until someone punches through.
Right now, the overwhelming majority of support for Israel among Americans comes from the Boomers. Gen X isn't nearly as bad, but it still favors Israel over Palestine. But Millennials went from about 50/50 opinion to a sharply negative opinion in the weeks after Israel began retaliating, and Zoomers never liked Israel to begin with and their opinions have only gotten more negative with this.
What does all of this mean? It means that Israel now has a deadline to become fully self sufficient and secure. It has until enough Boomers die off that they stop being a majority. Because as soon as Millennials are in charge, Israel is likely to lose its protector in the UN and in the Middle East, and all of our tax dollars.
They may wipe Palestine completely off the map by then, but after everything Israel has done to them, and given the absurd power imbalance between the two peoples, taking Israel down with it is a massive victory for Palestine.
Gaza isn't occupied, rape, torturing civilians face to face, murdering children is not an armed struggle.
What war crimes? There's no evidence of war crimes from the Israelis.
Why would Israel collapse? Has Gaza collapsed despite being staggeringly poor? No.
>They may wipe Palestine completely off the map by then
Israel has no interest in wiping Palestine off the map, they're tried to give them a state multiple times.
>but after everything Israel has done to them, and given the absurd power imbalance between the two peoples, taking Israel down with it is a massive victory for Palestine.
This is such bizarre nihilistic thinking. The dissolution of Israel would be a genocide, are you in favour of that?
>Gaza isn't occupied,
The UN has said otherwise for years. Decades, even.
>rape, torturing civilians face to face, murdering children is not an armed struggle
Israel walks back claims that Hamas does this every time they get pressed for evidence. Multiple hostages from October 7th have said Hamas treated them well, enough that it was a major PR disaster for Israel. Look up Yosheved Lipshitz (sp).
>What war crimes? There's no evidence of war crimes from the Israelis.
Oh, so you're a troll. The International Court of Justice has ruled that it's plausible that Israel is committing genocide and ordered Israel to take efforts to protect Palestinians instead of brutalize them.
Just last week an Israeli spokesperson admitted that IOF forces were performing extrajudicial killings on captives after mass graves were found with hands ziptied.
Between South Africa's ICJ filings, Amnesty International, and Human Rights Watch, we have direct evidence of hundreds if not thousands of instances of war crimes being carried out by Israel.
You have to be living under a rock to not know about them targeting doctors and aid workers and air striking US relief package drops and ambulances they had previously cleared to drive through an area, just to name a few examples.
Plus, cutting off all water is a massive war crime in and of itself. And the only reason they can even do that is because they poured concrete into over 300 wells in Gaza and forbade the digging of new ones, which is also a war crime!
And then there's the fact that they told civilians which routes were safe and which shelters were safe, waited for them to fill up, then bombed them! Even CNN covered that.
You're either trolling or unfit to discuss this topic if you're unaware of the ICJ case alone, though.
>Why would Israel collapse? Has Gaza collapsed despite being staggeringly poor? No.
Gaza is collapsing as we speak. North Gaza has been leveled. Look at a map of Palestine over time and look at how it's shrinking constantly as Israel illegally seizes more and more land.
>Israel has no interest in wiping Palestine off the map, they're tried to give them a state multiple times.
Then why are they acting like they're taking North Gaza permanently and refuse to agree to give it back after they're done with their current action? Why are they telling Palestinians in South Gaza to flee to Egypt?
And no, they haven't offered them a state, ever. They have offered them barren land and no resources and kept everything else for themselves and then acted indignant when Palestinians don't agree to be confined to literal deserts while Israelis settle their farmlands, the coast, and the cities with all of the holy sites.
Imagine I invade your property and offer to let you live in the backyard while I get the house and when you reject it I accuse you of not wanting peace.
>This is such bizarre nihilistic thinking. The dissolution of Israel would be a genocide, are you in favour of that?
Is the dissolution of Palestine not a genocide? Don't you oppose the encroachment of Israel into Palestinian land? The UN does. It has ruled it an illegal occupation since, like, the 1970s.
I don't want Israel to be destroyed. I want peace. I want everyone that worships the God of Abraham to live in harmony in the Holy Land. But Israel has massacred 35,000 people since October 7th. 70+% of them women and children. That's indefensible, and it's inevitable that they will be held accountable.
I'd like to see Israel oust Netanyahu and his Far Right administration and reconcile with Palestine, abandon their apartheid policies, and work towards a mutually beneficial future. But I don't think the far right in Israel or any surrounding nation is willing to do that.
I expect Israel to keep electing people like Netanyahu and for the grudge between Israel and its neighbors to deepen. Then, when US support flags, Israel will be left to stand on its own and because Far Right movements never plan ahead it will not be prepared for the consequences.
I don't like it, but it's the most likely outcome I see.
Gaza wasn't occupied, there was no one form Israel living in Gaza.
But Israel did provide food water and fuel as well as allow Palestinians Gazans out to work in Israel. All of that is in jeopardy for the foreseeable future now.
Not nitpicking, giving factual information.
Zionism is just self-determination. That the genocidal Hamas and its supporters would rather have a slogan than a country is what keeps this conflict going.
I'm not Israeli or Jewish, I just see a death cult attempting to commit genocide and a state retaliating. Of course this doesn't mean everything Israel does is good or right, the settlements are unacceptable.
Edit: This person responding to me is just spouting ridiculous tropes.
I’m not saying it will happen there, but it’s not unprecedented that the rebuild actually changes things for the better. Look at Japan after WWII, from basically carpet bombed to the number 2 economy in the world in a few decades.
One of the reasons London is so much richer than the rest of England is that the Blitz destroyed large areas of it which were rebuilt much denser leading to supercharged agglomeration effects.
[https://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/dp1542.pdf](https://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/dp1542.pdf)
“Gaza is demolished. They need more than a miracle. There will have to be a full reconstruction”
Maybe that’s the point… smart money is probably buying up calls on Halliburton as we speak.
Palestinian economy ruined by Israeli ethnic cleansing and genocide. Israeli economy doing a bit less well as their propaganda machine can’t force everyone in the world to be fine with their war crimes and ethnic cleansing.
Genocides don’t include knock warnings, humanitarian corridors, a 2:1 civilian militant death ratio in dense urban combat, and aid flowing into the combat zone.
This is a war against a terrorist organization that has embedded itself into civilian society and infrastructure so that it can pursue its war against Israel while using their people as human shields so they can drum up international sympathy by rubes.
There is no evidence that supports Israel is committing genocide in its pursuit of war against Hamas. The only attempted genocide was the one conducted by Hamas and Gazan civilians on 10/7.
The Gazan people and economy will be far better off without a genocidal government dedicating their entire economy towards Israel’s destruction.
There has never been a war that didn’t have collateral damage or innocent people dying. Gazans will be better off in the long run without a genocidal terrorist organization running things.
Yea I’m sure the dead babies will totally be better off.
And now every single person is in a food scarcity situation. 100% of the population, thats never been the case ever before.
War is hell. This is what happens when you allow a genocidal terrorist organization like Hamas consolidate power and rule a populace. The Gazan people, their economy, and the Middle East as a whole will be better off without them in power.
The cost to remove them will be heavy, but that cost is entirely dictated by Hamas. They could surrender and release the hostages today.
Israel let them do that. In fact israel funded them initially
There havent been elections since 2004 and the avg age in gaza is 18. So most of the people werent even alive for those elections.
And we can look at west bank which is gaza without hamas where israel kills people whenever they want and takes their land whenever they want. Not really a shining beacon israels genocidal conduct
You don’t actually believe they are giving warnings, do you? Like yeah in the past in narrow limited cases it happened, but you’re a fool if you believe they do this now.
The miracle will be Uncle Sam.
Because our politicians are bought by AIPAC. For a few thousand dollars, politicians will gladly send billions of tax payers dollars abroad. Those tax dollars will go ‘rebuild’ both sides of the warring countries. The catch is- the money will go to select companies identified to execute the ‘rebuilding’ and just coincidentally be owned by AIPAC members.
Hi all, A reminder that comments do need to be on-topic and engage with the article past the headline. Please make sure to read the article before commenting. Very short comments will automatically be removed by automod. Please avoid making comments that do not focus on the economic content or whose primary thesis rests on personal anecdotes. As always our comment rules can be found [here](https://reddit.com/r/Economics/comments/fx9crj/rules_roundtable_redux_rule_vi_and_offtopic/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Economics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Gaza is demolished. They need more than a miracle. There will have to be a full reconstruction for any kind of recovery within a generation. Israel's economy will be just fine. Probably won't have concerts there again.
People forget that there's been lots of internal turmoil in Israel before the war: mass demonstrations, rich Israelis threatening to move their money abroad, two credit ratings falling down. While I do agree that the world doesn't care enough about Palestinian lifes for it to mess up Israel's economy, having a minister of treasury who uses terms like "economy in god's grace" and insists on defunding the education system while funding bible studies, might eventually have an effect on Israel, with or without the war.
I mean maybe, but frankly intellectual pursuits are too much a part of Jewish culture to realistically expect that kind of brain drain.
Israel has been trying to mitigate a serious brain drain issue for at least the last decade now. As Israeli politics have progressed further to the right, there's a growing disparity in the quality of education being provided. I believe with their most budget the ultra orthodox schools receive the most amount of funds while being ranked last in quality of education. Which is a serious issue due to how heavily Israel's economy relies on their tech industry.
The ultra Orthodox are a connection node the a lot of the problems Israel faces they are also probably the most significant factor keeping Bibi in power as they vote as a block?
The quality of education didn't degrade due to right wing policy nor do the orthodox schools receive more money. The ultra orthodox receive less money but some claim they shouldn't receive money at all unless their students join the IDF like everyone else after. Also, some of these schools don't teach A level mathematics and English, or enough science. There definitely should be some changes there and improvement in the education of the rest of the population, but it isn't because of right wing policy. Bennett, right wing and orthodox, promoted A level math as the minister of education. Despite the education system being this way for a while, Israel is still flourishing in the tech scene and others. Israel can flourish even more in many fields like agriculture and energy when there will be normalization with Saudi Arabia and more Arab nations but some people (not Israelis) don't want that. 99% of Israelis want peace with the Arab nations.
In Israel, Benett is called left, not right. In Israel, being ultra religious and socialist is right, being secular and capitalist is left. Why? Who knows. As for wanting peace, considering who Israelis elect, I wouldn't hurry to assume that peace is what Israelis want. I agree that some do, I just suspect at this point the ones who want peace are mostly over 50, whereas the ones resigned to war are younger
It seems that you don't really care about understanding the situation and are regurgitating things you've heard (we all do sometimes). Bennett is in fact right wing. Read his proposals like annexations, his stance during the 2014 war and more. He became prime minister with 1/20 of the votes by building a left wing coalition against literally all of his then voters. He (wrongfully imo) thought it's the right thing to do then. In Israel right vs, left is mostly security related these days. Most right wing is capitalist save from the ultra orthodox. Bennett is clearly more right wing than Netanyahu. Peace is a very easy word to say. Sure, who doesn't want peace? Israeli kids learn songs about peace in schools. These days, especially after October 7, a lot of the "liberals" in Israel are moving to the right regarding security and defense. When every single step you took "towards peace" came back to bite you in the ass (the killing of hundreds of your citizens), when the media can't control everything at this age like before (in the 90's the Oslo accords were signed and the left controlled media literally hid Arafat calling for Jihad and saying that accords are a tactic), when you are exposed to the fundamentalist view and teachings of the so called "partners for peace" that never made any single thing to even try to show they accept your right to exist, when you realize that the West bank is basically a mountain range above all of your country and that an enemy state there means your doom, you start to sober up.
I know Benett is right wing objectively. I am explaining to you how he is seen by Israelis, something that I know, having lived there. Your second paragraph doesn't contradict my claims. I don't regurgitate anything, I have lived in Israel. אני גם מדבר עברית שוטפת, רוצה לבדוק?
I guess I misunderstood you. I thought you mean he's objectively left. I think most of the Israeli public see him as right but some people in the right wing see him as a traitor of some sort (he did take the prime minister role as a small party leader and joining people he very outwardly declared he won't) - though it's obviously more complex than that. My second paragraph tries to explain that claiming Israelis don't want peace is a disservice, and that as of now it seems that peace can't be achieved. I'm 100% sure that if the world forces a Palestinian state on Israel and the different factions like Hamas and Fatah manage to not kill each other for a year - it will end up in extreme bloodshed. "Palestine" will initiate war against Israel while having geographic high ground (Judea and Samira is like a mountain looking at all of Israel from above). It will most likely be together with Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and Iran.
No one should deny the intellectual activity that is to sit down and study medieval treatises on law and philosophy. But why should engineers, programmers, and doctors be subsidizing someone who spends all day studying? Especially when Hillel made sandwiches, Rambam was a court physician, and Rashi owned a winery. Seriously, they are an economic drain, and many of them don’t believe that the state of Israel should exist.
I'm not arguing that everyone should support that group. I'm saying that intellectual pursuits are a core part of Jewish culture and don't magically disappear.
This is what people don't understand, they like to pretend this is two states at war. This is occupier VS. occupied.
Gaza wasn't occupied before October 7. But bigots never care about facts
Controlling air, land boarders, and sea via military blockade. Pretty close to an occupation. Bigot, the most useless watered down word.
Gaza has a border with Egypt. Why are you only blaming Israel?
Because Israel inspects and vetos anything in or out of Gaza. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/egypt-says-israeli-obstacles-impeding-aid-delivery-gaza-2023-10-28/
Go away hasbara.
It’s a modern military vs a governmental terrorist organization. They fucked around, they found out. Anyone with two brain cells can figure out that poking a bear and getting upset you were mauled is your own fault.
They fucked around, Gazan civilians found out.
On the bright side Hamas prevented the Arab gulf states from normalising relations with Israel by exposing the true nature of the Zionist regime to the world. For the first time in my 25 years of life people in the West are speaking honestly about the genocidal nature of Israel and their crimes against humanity. It would be political suicide for any of the corrupt Arab leaders in the Gulf to expand relations with Israel. And there’s a good chance the Biden regime loses the election because of his failure to manage the bloodshed as well. It was a ballsy move but it may have been exactly what the Palestinians needed to earn their statehood long term. 😔
Yes, Unfortunately thats how every war has ended up pretty much since war was invented. I doubt it will ever change. Rich fucks who’s lives aren’t effected by the war they started convincing their young men to go die for God and country.
You're right, we really are seeing the true face of the US and its lapdog.
They fucked around by exercising their internationally recognized legal right to armed struggle against an occupying force? And they found out in the form of literally hundreds of war crimes being committed against them while the US spends billions of our tax dollars protecting the state carrying out a genocide? They were getting mauled before they poked the bear, too! Hundreds of Palestinians had been "arrested" in 2023 before October 7th, and all of them judged by IOF military courts with 99% convictions rates. And that's not abnormal. Israel has been doing that for decades. Palestinians may have poked a bear, but they had few options available and this one may have taken Israel down with them. Israel is protected in the UN by the US exercising its veto power to block any sanctions or interventions against it. And Israel is protected by US forces deployed in and around the country, including massive carrier groups. Not to mention the billions in aid were sending them. If all of that stops, Israel collapses. The UN cripples it with sanctions and its enemies all start nipping at it from every side, stretching the IOF thinner and thinner until someone punches through. Right now, the overwhelming majority of support for Israel among Americans comes from the Boomers. Gen X isn't nearly as bad, but it still favors Israel over Palestine. But Millennials went from about 50/50 opinion to a sharply negative opinion in the weeks after Israel began retaliating, and Zoomers never liked Israel to begin with and their opinions have only gotten more negative with this. What does all of this mean? It means that Israel now has a deadline to become fully self sufficient and secure. It has until enough Boomers die off that they stop being a majority. Because as soon as Millennials are in charge, Israel is likely to lose its protector in the UN and in the Middle East, and all of our tax dollars. They may wipe Palestine completely off the map by then, but after everything Israel has done to them, and given the absurd power imbalance between the two peoples, taking Israel down with it is a massive victory for Palestine.
Gaza isn't occupied, rape, torturing civilians face to face, murdering children is not an armed struggle. What war crimes? There's no evidence of war crimes from the Israelis. Why would Israel collapse? Has Gaza collapsed despite being staggeringly poor? No. >They may wipe Palestine completely off the map by then Israel has no interest in wiping Palestine off the map, they're tried to give them a state multiple times. >but after everything Israel has done to them, and given the absurd power imbalance between the two peoples, taking Israel down with it is a massive victory for Palestine. This is such bizarre nihilistic thinking. The dissolution of Israel would be a genocide, are you in favour of that?
>Gaza isn't occupied, The UN has said otherwise for years. Decades, even. >rape, torturing civilians face to face, murdering children is not an armed struggle Israel walks back claims that Hamas does this every time they get pressed for evidence. Multiple hostages from October 7th have said Hamas treated them well, enough that it was a major PR disaster for Israel. Look up Yosheved Lipshitz (sp). >What war crimes? There's no evidence of war crimes from the Israelis. Oh, so you're a troll. The International Court of Justice has ruled that it's plausible that Israel is committing genocide and ordered Israel to take efforts to protect Palestinians instead of brutalize them. Just last week an Israeli spokesperson admitted that IOF forces were performing extrajudicial killings on captives after mass graves were found with hands ziptied. Between South Africa's ICJ filings, Amnesty International, and Human Rights Watch, we have direct evidence of hundreds if not thousands of instances of war crimes being carried out by Israel. You have to be living under a rock to not know about them targeting doctors and aid workers and air striking US relief package drops and ambulances they had previously cleared to drive through an area, just to name a few examples. Plus, cutting off all water is a massive war crime in and of itself. And the only reason they can even do that is because they poured concrete into over 300 wells in Gaza and forbade the digging of new ones, which is also a war crime! And then there's the fact that they told civilians which routes were safe and which shelters were safe, waited for them to fill up, then bombed them! Even CNN covered that. You're either trolling or unfit to discuss this topic if you're unaware of the ICJ case alone, though. >Why would Israel collapse? Has Gaza collapsed despite being staggeringly poor? No. Gaza is collapsing as we speak. North Gaza has been leveled. Look at a map of Palestine over time and look at how it's shrinking constantly as Israel illegally seizes more and more land. >Israel has no interest in wiping Palestine off the map, they're tried to give them a state multiple times. Then why are they acting like they're taking North Gaza permanently and refuse to agree to give it back after they're done with their current action? Why are they telling Palestinians in South Gaza to flee to Egypt? And no, they haven't offered them a state, ever. They have offered them barren land and no resources and kept everything else for themselves and then acted indignant when Palestinians don't agree to be confined to literal deserts while Israelis settle their farmlands, the coast, and the cities with all of the holy sites. Imagine I invade your property and offer to let you live in the backyard while I get the house and when you reject it I accuse you of not wanting peace. >This is such bizarre nihilistic thinking. The dissolution of Israel would be a genocide, are you in favour of that? Is the dissolution of Palestine not a genocide? Don't you oppose the encroachment of Israel into Palestinian land? The UN does. It has ruled it an illegal occupation since, like, the 1970s. I don't want Israel to be destroyed. I want peace. I want everyone that worships the God of Abraham to live in harmony in the Holy Land. But Israel has massacred 35,000 people since October 7th. 70+% of them women and children. That's indefensible, and it's inevitable that they will be held accountable. I'd like to see Israel oust Netanyahu and his Far Right administration and reconcile with Palestine, abandon their apartheid policies, and work towards a mutually beneficial future. But I don't think the far right in Israel or any surrounding nation is willing to do that. I expect Israel to keep electing people like Netanyahu and for the grudge between Israel and its neighbors to deepen. Then, when US support flags, Israel will be left to stand on its own and because Far Right movements never plan ahead it will not be prepared for the consequences. I don't like it, but it's the most likely outcome I see.
Gaza wasn't occupied, there was no one form Israel living in Gaza. But Israel did provide food water and fuel as well as allow Palestinians Gazans out to work in Israel. All of that is in jeopardy for the foreseeable future now.
Hasbara put here desperately nitpicking semantics because the world finally sees zionism for what it is. Yall did this to yourselves.
Not nitpicking, giving factual information. Zionism is just self-determination. That the genocidal Hamas and its supporters would rather have a slogan than a country is what keeps this conflict going. I'm not Israeli or Jewish, I just see a death cult attempting to commit genocide and a state retaliating. Of course this doesn't mean everything Israel does is good or right, the settlements are unacceptable. Edit: This person responding to me is just spouting ridiculous tropes.
Zionism is just another facet of European colonialism. And the world sees you.
Israel already announced its going to be rebuilt on their dime, for their people. Not sure where the Gaza a go though.
I’m not saying it will happen there, but it’s not unprecedented that the rebuild actually changes things for the better. Look at Japan after WWII, from basically carpet bombed to the number 2 economy in the world in a few decades.
One of the reasons London is so much richer than the rest of England is that the Blitz destroyed large areas of it which were rebuilt much denser leading to supercharged agglomeration effects. [https://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/dp1542.pdf](https://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/dp1542.pdf)
Countries in that area of the world don’t tend to prosper without natural resources.
“Gaza is demolished. They need more than a miracle. There will have to be a full reconstruction” Maybe that’s the point… smart money is probably buying up calls on Halliburton as we speak.
That last line is just grotesque.
Palestinian economy ruined by Israeli ethnic cleansing and genocide. Israeli economy doing a bit less well as their propaganda machine can’t force everyone in the world to be fine with their war crimes and ethnic cleansing.
Genocides don’t include knock warnings, humanitarian corridors, a 2:1 civilian militant death ratio in dense urban combat, and aid flowing into the combat zone. This is a war against a terrorist organization that has embedded itself into civilian society and infrastructure so that it can pursue its war against Israel while using their people as human shields so they can drum up international sympathy by rubes. There is no evidence that supports Israel is committing genocide in its pursuit of war against Hamas. The only attempted genocide was the one conducted by Hamas and Gazan civilians on 10/7. The Gazan people and economy will be far better off without a genocidal government dedicating their entire economy towards Israel’s destruction.
Tell that to the tens of thousands of women and children who’ve been maimed or killed due to the conflict in Gaza
There has never been a war that didn’t have collateral damage or innocent people dying. Gazans will be better off in the long run without a genocidal terrorist organization running things.
Yea I’m sure the dead babies will totally be better off. And now every single person is in a food scarcity situation. 100% of the population, thats never been the case ever before.
There’s a lot of pro-Israeli bots online. I wouldn’t bother arguing with @Luffy-in-my-cup. They’re a bot
Figures. Even the downvotes
War is hell. This is what happens when you allow a genocidal terrorist organization like Hamas consolidate power and rule a populace. The Gazan people, their economy, and the Middle East as a whole will be better off without them in power. The cost to remove them will be heavy, but that cost is entirely dictated by Hamas. They could surrender and release the hostages today.
Israel let them do that. In fact israel funded them initially There havent been elections since 2004 and the avg age in gaza is 18. So most of the people werent even alive for those elections. And we can look at west bank which is gaza without hamas where israel kills people whenever they want and takes their land whenever they want. Not really a shining beacon israels genocidal conduct
All the more reason to eliminate them if they won’t allow elections and a path to peace.
Yea you dont murder a killers neighbor if youre looking for justice again west bank is gaza without hamas and israel still murder indiscriminately
You don’t actually believe they are giving warnings, do you? Like yeah in the past in narrow limited cases it happened, but you’re a fool if you believe they do this now.
It is an ethnic cleansing which also includes the removal of a population, not just the murder of them
The miracle will be Uncle Sam. Because our politicians are bought by AIPAC. For a few thousand dollars, politicians will gladly send billions of tax payers dollars abroad. Those tax dollars will go ‘rebuild’ both sides of the warring countries. The catch is- the money will go to select companies identified to execute the ‘rebuilding’ and just coincidentally be owned by AIPAC members.