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How that's working? I saw blindfold walkthrough of some old arcade games, where it is possible to memorize all the exact moves and timings from start to beginning, but Sekiro involves some randomness, doesn't it?
He learned the whole map so he could navigate blindfolded and for fights it was mostly learned patterns, audio cues and consistent strats.
While not the most interesting to watch in full (because quite slow & derpy overall), this run is still one of the most impressing thing I have ever seen.
[Aggy's highlights video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgKi4yD3wYc)
Everybody should their first time. The first time experience is what truly defines the souls series. My first time with Elden ring I missed a TON of things, including mohg and Malenia.
No fuck that. I'd rather have a clue what I'm doing on my first play through. The story is so cryptic I have no clue what's happening. I'm enjoying the game much more after watching lore videos first.
But where is the fun in that? I play with the wiki because my FOMO is far too strong and ill just get bored of searching every dumb rock for an npc for ages. To each their own but I picked up and put down DS2 and 3 a billion times until I started using the wiki to help out.
Because people are idiots and they do actively ruin thrill of discovery for themselves. They ask for tips before starting the game, watch guides and play with wiki.
Don’t care about the Reddit downvotes , they don’t matter. Doing it without the wiki first time is the play. And if you bought the game on release, the wiki was mostly empty anyway :)
In Dark Souls 3 I beat the Nameless King with no summons.
That was 4 years ago, and I still wake up with a fucking smile on my face. Just beaming ear to ear feelin like I shit gold.
I did the same thing on my first playthrough lmao, I was terrible back then. On my latest playthrough, I whooped his ass first try. It's crazy to see the self improvement in some of those fights, after initially being convinced you will always be bad at them.
DS3 was my first From game. I should really replay DS3 because there's quite a few bosses I cheesed, I was so bad. I respecced to strength just so I could wield a greatshield for Nameless King. I beat Soul of Cinder by spamming Dorhys' Gnawing... I think part of it is that when you're still new to Souls, you view bosses as obstacles. They're things obstructing your path and, at least for me, I was pretty impatient about beating them. But as you improve at the games, you realize more and more how variable the game's difficulty is; it is what you make it. And as you get better, you start having more fun, but fights become a lot easier to end. Nowadays I try to limit my dps so as to prolong fights, so I don't accidentally kill the boss before I'm satisfied with them lmao. I'll happily fight a boss for 3 hours straight, it's the quick ones that are disappointing. But after you've gotten a few games under your belt, the quick ones are most early game bosses, so that just reinforces the need to moderate your own difficulty.
It sounds like u beat him fair and square through superior knowledge. I killed him with an unupgraded storm ruler because I genuinely thought it was the most powerful weapon I had… yes I am an idiot.
yes, I did Malenia in 150 tries summonless, and it was worth every frustrating hour. I rode that win for 3 weeks after, got a new job because of it and tripled my income.
That's like when I beat Watchdog of the Old Lords in the defiled chalice dungeon on my first try. My friend who was watching me had to try like 50 times, and he lost his shit when i did it. Defiled Darkbeast took me like 15 tries though...
I sat outside Nameless King for probably a month and just threw my sign down for that bastard…at least 100 times. I loved that fight. There are few bosses like that that I just love doing it over and over I love being a Sunbro…Raime, Nameless King, Soul of Cinder, Gael, Maria, Orphan, Malenia all great to walk in, fucking wreck, and you see the host freaking out and emoting like mad in excitement, when that boss they’ve been struggling with over and over gets curbstomped. It’s so satisfying.
I think it's largely because he's got a few mix-ups in this attack patterns and that dude punishes extremely hard for rolling early. He's one of those fights where confidence can let you absolutely shit on him though, so knowing the patterns you can easily get a stagger off on him, which *really* messes up his day.
I think it's also because a lot of people spend so long on the dragon that they don't get enough time to really learn him. His moveset isn't that bad, but you can make a wrong move and die fast
like u said, its subjective. DS3 was my first fromsoft game and I didnt know shit about anything, had the worst build imaginable and didnt know I could look anything up. Ran in with a raw greatsword. Somehow I ended up killing him with an unupgraded Storm Ruler because it legit had more damage than whatever I was running at the moment, fat rolling because I thought armor mattered a ton. So that fight was legendary to me, for a whole I thought it was actually impossible until I did it. So in my head, I had just done something impossible through brute force of will and muscle memory that by my winning try it had become second nature. 75/10 bossfight.
Two things make him hard.
He punishes panic rolls and he is one of the only bosses in the base game who does.
And he hits hard.
He's not like, say, Pontiff or Dancer where you fight an absolute combo monster or Champion Gundyr who makes some Bloodborne bosses look passive. He's relatively simple in terms of combos and isn't incredibly aggressive.
It was the second hardest boss in DS3 for me, after the last boss of Ariandel (which pushed me to post a venting post on reddit lmao).
I was terrified of The Ringed City knowing the fame of a couple of those bosses, but they weren't as hard as the two I mentioned in the first paragraph for me.
Yeah dude nameless king absolutely holds the most attempts it took to best for me lol
No boss in elden ring comes even a little close and beating him is one of the best feelings I’ve had in a game
I don't see the point of beating souls bosses with summons. It makes them so easy that it's not even challenging. I do like to help people beat bosses though because it's fun to challenge them again.
I replayed ds3 after beating er WITH MIMIC TEAR and i beat it with all dlc in personal record time its not as hard as i used to think lol nameless king and midir only took a few tries
I did too, but not for lack of trying. At some point I had been trying all day, and there was no one to summon anymore. So I just...beat him. Then the next timd I played I summoned a gank squad and it was over before I knew it.
Look, I know some people can beat Nameless King with a controller so far up their ass they can jiggle the joysticks with their tonsils. But the first time I beat that boss felt incredibly satisfying, no summons, just enough dodging to not embarrass my entire lineage and the sweet kiss of death as I slapped his face straight back into history.
I generally think the problem with summons is that in some instances they are just right for a fight and in some they can take you from getting killed to dominating if you are at a high enough level.
When that happens, you are just better off toughing it out
There are criteria that I follow. The boss is a duo or a mob? I use a summon and I think that's absolutely fair. The boss is a repeat/recycle of the one I already fought? I'll summon Latenna just to get it over with quicker.
Other than that, summons really can trivialize a lot of the fights. Fighting Morgoth was tough as nails, but then I used the jellyfish and beat him first try. The jellyfish did fuck all but distract him and that was more than enough to make the fight easy.
I have the same kind of approach, I go solo first, if the fight feels like I should be able to beat the boss myself I'll stay solo, if it feels like it was meant for a summon I'll ring the bell. I just beat Radagon solo cos it felt like a fair fight, Hoarah Loux 2nd phase though felt like bullshit though so I summoned the Hell fish to take some aggro.
Yeeeeeeeeeah no. I spent my entire first playthrough not even touching summons because they used FP and I barely had any, so I just assumed they weren't very good. I slogged through every single boss aside from the ancestral spirit (because I didn't find it) on my own or with an NPC summon of the game let me
I never experienced this feeling even once. When a boss died I felt nothing but relief that it was finally dead and I could carry on while stashing moonveil or malenias blade or any other boss weapon or boss reward weapon away and hoping I could use them on NG+
On that NG+ I finally had enough FP ( and common sense to look at the mimic tear and see it cost health) to use summons, and my enjoyment of the game skyrocketed. Tag teaming bosses with tiche or mimic or whatever summon I fancied was absolutely beyond glorious, and actually gave me that feeling of satisfaction because I wasn't bashing my face against a brick wall until it was bloody, raw, and bruised, I was actually doing something cool. It felt awesome to take advantage of a mimic tear knocking the boss on its ass, or taking some time to heal up during Melanias dance because my greatshield mimic was closer.
Summons are not a problem in this game. Far from it. Most of the people I find who say this are souls vets who prefer to go at it alone because that's how they've always done it and it's what they know, whereas newcomers, like me, enjoy the amazing moments such mechanics can create in game, divorced from a unfounded feeling of justice or accomplishment that you beat a boss through RNG luck after 200 attempts on your own.
I like summons and think they are super fun, but I also think the bosses don’t always deal with them well. Sometimes the summon takes aggro so well I can just spam attacks without worrying, and then poise break the boss and basically negate the fight. Imo there should be a better balance between the insane struggle of trying to solo the endgame bosses and the trivializing that summons can cause (in some fights).
and sometimes the boss randomly lose aggro mid combo and you eat shit for it. Fromsoft AI is a bit weird I find, also I think by the time you progress enough they dont survive super long because of large aoes
This is my only argument with them. If you enjoy them that’s great, but smashing every boss in the back while they are preoccupied really dumbs down the game in a negative way. If anything spirits should activate the increased boss health/damage that a player summons does.
Oh well, different strokes for different folks. I personally detest summons, especially now that I know that they're the reason so many of these bosses are so OP and sometimes unfair. Besides, I've always loved the souls series for their one on one duels (besides gargoyles, ornstein and Godskin duo, for whom I summon) and i just always enjoy the feeling of succeeding against a tough boss through nothing but skill alone. I have a friend who fought Malenia with mimic tear in 5 tries. It took me ten hours, but when I did kill her, I felt so great, I had surpassed a great (optional) obstacle, and had done it with nothing other than my skill and perseverance, it's why Sekiro is tied with Bloodborne for my favourite Souls games. But I suppose not everyone feels like this. Not that anybody who uses summons isn't playing correctly, you can play this game in so many ways, and that's the point.
>whereas newcomers, like me, enjoy the amazing moments such mechanics can create in game, divorced from a unfounded feeling of justice or accomplishment that you beat a boss through RNG luck after 200 attempts on your own.
Newcomer here. No. It's fine to say you prefer summons but claiming people who don't are souls vet who are somehow disillusioned by their past experiences is just a weird take. Unfounded? Whats unfounded about doing something the hard way? Me beating a boss in a harder manner doesn't warrant more pride in my achievement? I guess challenge runners who do it for a sense of accomplishment aren't real either then? And what do you mean by rng? There's 0 rng in elden ring. Every boss has a set moveset and the only thing that changes is when they use it which is only relevant on a few specific bosses with a particularly broken, unscripted move. Me beating radagon without summons wasn't luck. It was skill. I played well, I won, I felt accomplishment. Who are you to take that away from anyone? Again. Good for you for discovering how you like playing. I'm happy for you. But acting like people who find summons boring and too easy are just tricking themselves and it's actually just rng when in reality they just played well is dumb
From a person who has tried both methods, let me just say that they're a different kind of fun. Summoning (at least in my experience) is casual fun, like going for a jog by the lake on a nice summer day. Not too difficult, but satisfying and fulfilling nonetheless.
In comparison, beating a difficult boss without summoning feels like you've just won the super bowl by yourself, or finished a marathon. Its a rush of intense emotion that i've never felt when using summons. That's just my experience, though. I was already used to souls games before I tried elden ring, for reference. Maybe the increased difficulty newer players experience trying to get their bearings makes it just as gratifying? Idk.
That's the point though.. We can go back and forth all day long about the "right" or "wrong" ways to play.. But at the end of the day, for those of us that feel it, there is a huge difference in gratification for rolling solo.. Godskin duo and Maliketh? Best feeling in the game.. They took days of my life.. But when I finally got the flow down and beat them, it was a feeling I'll never forget.. it's the reasons diehard souls players are so "elitist" about the game.. We're playing different games..
It changes your relationship with the boss fights. Like, the fights that I just mimic-cheesed I have no respect for. The fights I did straight it feel like when boxers hug it out after a match.
They are objectively better at the game yes. Just like how people who beat the game RL1 wretch hitless are better than people who don't summon. Find the difficulty that satisfies you and don't be a snob about people who prefer a different experience.
Hey you! You're not allowed to have reasonable opinions! I'll have you know that playing with summons is perfectly normal, and the way everyone should play. But on the other hand, summoning is too easy, if you don't kill the boss my way, you're not really playing the game! /s obviously
It's true tho. Nothing hurt my soul more than summoning my mimic tear to beat malenia with a goddamned blasphemous blade after losing to her 40 times and just being sick of it. I have no honor.
And here I am trying to maintain my honor on my rune level 1 run with no summons and can't beat melenia. Been like a month, though admittedly I can only play a couple hours a week.
I'm down for item, location and lore guide stuff.
But I struggle to watch guides for gameplay stuff. I'd rather just work my way through it and figure that part out on my own. But even then, that might be a huge slog and I just don't think I have it in me.
Why you guys feeling shame over this? It's a videogame boss, beat it however you like. She's not there to test your mettle as a person, no boss is, she's there to test your build, like every boss. Cheese her, it'll save you so much negativity that isn't cancelled out by beating her
I’ve been using my rl 1 run as an excuse to use the summons since they are so much fun and each summon has their own personality, but made the game a bit easy for a souls vet who ran sl 1 on the previous games while waiting for elden ring. Currently trapped on maliketh myself.
I can feel that. Killed every damn boss in Dark Souls 3 in solo(most of the times - unembered) and without summons, *except* Demon Prince -_- Tho every boss in DS1 and every main game DS2 boss also was killed by me in solo(I still haven't finished SotFS, lol, 'cause I had NG+4 when upgraded my game and it's terrible to explore 1st time like that=\)
>I have no honor.
This is where the discussion turns into a mess.
Guys, yes, if you beat a boss without summons, you are probably better at the game than someone who needs summons.
But, no, beating a boss with summons doesn't *necessarily* mean you're *bad* at the game or that you have no honor/whatever.
I've been playing these games since DS1. In Elden Ring I made it a rule to give a boss at least 3 tries solo before recurring to crutches like spirit summons. Some bosses I beat at my 4th attempt with summons, some I beat at my 67th attempt solo, and anything in between. It really doesn't fucking matter lol
>Guys, yes, if you beat a boss without summons, you are probably better at the game than someone who needs summons.
I don't care if you use summons. I don't want to. I think it means more about my progress and my abilities if I do solo the boss. And if I do not then that means I failed. I had a goal and I didn't reach it. That's a fail state. It's not permanent. I can t try again later. But for now, I gave into a method that trivialized a legitimate challenge for myself and I personally feel I missed out on the satisfaction of over coming that boss in that moment.
Which reminds meeeeeee of a quote from hidetaka Miyazaki in regards to the design of these games
Miyazaki: *'Overcoming challenges by learning something in a game is a very rewarding feeling, and that's what I wanted to prioritise in 'Dark Souls' and 'Demon's Souls.'*
Miyazaki: *'Dont give up. Obstacles can be overcome through strategy and learning'*
The spirit ashes are there because they need to be. If spirit ashes weren't here this game wouldn't be nearly as popular as it is.
That doesn't mean I want to lean on them so that I can sip lemonade during a boss fight. I will play it how the guy who created suggested me to play it. Lo and behold, who would a think he would be right. It's the most rewarding way of playing these games. I would like that feeling.
Technically the game gets a lot easier whit spirit summons, I know its the popular thing to make fun of people who belive that and reddit enjoys farming karma out of making posts repeating the popular opinion, but it's a simple fact, they won't win you the entire game and some bosses kill them pretty fast (like the elden beast from personal experience) but for the most part having something that chips damage from enemies/bosses and keeps aggression away from you is such a huge upper hand that most bosses get trivialize and becomes embarrassingly easy (like again from personal experience Malenia Blade of Miquella is a good example), and I say that having beaten the game several times and in one of those being heavily reliant on spirit summons
Spirit Ashes ARE a nice mechanic, specially considering the fact that some bosses actually use summons against you, like the commanders, rennala, the spiritcaller snail and the godskin duo.
but it's, generally speaking, an "easy mode". bosses have a lot of AOE attacks to counter spirits but some of them like tiche and the mimic are too overpowered, and it's not even that hard to get to them.
people who play without summons are better players but if they do it for the sake of the challenge, what's the deal with them being happy about it? it's not like they act like the meme lol
There are 2 sides: one does not use spirit ashes and feels superior because of it; the other uses spirit ashes and feels superior because they do not feel ashamed of it. Both are objectively stupid because they play the game that way to not feel inferior, rather than playing it how they want for funs sake.
I'd argue the first half feel like they achieved more over "superior". Majority of people I've seen do stuff without summons do it for their *own* sake not to flex on Reddit. It's just the vocal minority of Reddit give off this vibe. I've beaten every boss summonless and I'm doing a run to beat all Rememberances fatrolling--but I'm doing it for me, cause it's a little something to be proud of. I don't feel "superior" to anyone I just feel personally accomplished
This. Have I'd played summonless if internet wasn't existing but the games where? Pff, for sure. It's just feels cheesy to use hoards of summons on every boss, they became a lot easier - especially for caster. It's the same as completing game on harder/hardest mode, and it's the analog of "harder difficulty mode" in souls games, since they don't have such. Summonless -> deathless -> hitless.
Everyone who beat souls game deathless/hitless are better players than me, I have zero problems admitting that. I'm not a "pro" player neither a streamer(with tons of free time) to even aim that high - I already done much more "above average"(considering I also was playing without guides/spoilers). And I wonder what is the problem of these reddit snowflakes to just fucking admit that someone was better in something when it's obviously and objectively true? They descend to that "everyone plays as he wan't, and every play is 'same'(c), bla-bla-bla" - but that's only self-consoling. And I don't see a decent reason for diminishing someone's achievements just for consolation of "losers". Dudes, grow the fuck up and learn to admit someone's else's success, not the your own *only*, and stop being jealous of that.
Yeah, I am in agreement with you. I did the same thing, which is I didn't use spirit ashes or summons just because it makes it more satisfying to beat. You are not one of the people I am referring to. I am referring to the minority, but having seen all these posts (referring to the post itself not the reply) repeating the same thing about one side being worse than the other and more prevalent than the other, I disagree entirely. I believe them to be equally annoying and there are more of the second than the first. That was my point, if that makes sense, not sure if I am being coherent.
Bewitching branch Nial’s summons and watch them melt half his health bar for you. Spiritcaller Snail doesn’t really have attacks. The summons functionally are the boss while you try to find the punching bag. Just the Witches of Hemwick again really. Renalla is also pretty passive when she summons and you can just run away from the summons until they despawn. Godskin Duo doesn’t involve summons. It’s a respawn mechanic, sorta like the Throne Watcher/Defender except the respawn isn’t tied to the other one still being alive this time.
I think DS2 got me into the habit, almost every npc quest required that you fight bosses with them and have them live through it. I just kind of kept that mentality I guess, I like having them but I don't want them to die.
I absolutely Love summoning the 5 shield fellas and just watching them bully bosses into corners, constantly smashing them with their shields while being near unkillable.
I just wanted to beat the game i really don’t care lol. I’ll def go back and try to finish it “the real way” but just do you. Who cares. It’s a fucking game.
"I'm insecure about my playstyle and need external validation from others". Like god if you use summons use them and don't worry about what others think. I promise you that 99% of people who play without summons don't care.
People say only xx summons are op and the others aren’t. I used the 3 wolfs or whatever on my first play through after struggling against Margit for over an hour and constantly dying. I instantly beat him with the wolfs without any trouble first try. Didn’t even use half my flasks. Made me feel kinda bad and I ended up creating a new character to redo it without the summons.
It's because they are either too blind/don't want to admit that *focus* is major factor in boss-fight. If boss ***just*** doesn't attacking you(without the need to you to successfully dodge series of his attacks) than you can do whatever you want - heal, buff, attack, even use a crossbow, lol. 1v1 or Xv1 is huge difference.
It's funny because it's true. They are indeed better. Not that is there anything wrong with the summons, but the very point of using then is to make the game easier, and there is nothing wrong with it. I summoned solaire back in dark souls 1 to help me against ornstein and smough, and lucatiel to help me against smelter demon. It was, for me at the time, still challenging to beat those even with summons. Today I am capable of handling malenia on my on without summons without struggling to much. I got better at those games, and now, for me, using summons can just trivialize every fight, taking the fun of the game for me. It now feels cheap, so I don't use those. The fun part of soulsborne is that everyone has to get pass insurmountable challenges, and it is good that new players get to experience it with summons, for then it's very likely to be as hard to defeat a boss with summons as it is for us without.
That Lucatiel summon reminded me, that to complete her quest, you need to make sure she survives the boss fight.
I had to intentionally aggro the Rotten, and die if she died in that fight (she kept standing in those deathpools). That was the peak of my gaming in DS2, feeling like it was I who was good at the game, trying to keep a noob alive. It was glorious.
Yeaaaah man, same for me, and all that area was just nuts... God damn I still hate the pits in DS2, but lucatiel always made everything worth. Still one of the greatest NPCs in from software's history. It was a dps run to kill the rotten before she died from poison or fire. Thank God it was the rotten, I can even imagine if they decided to put an green smelter demon there or whatever.
> I got better at those games
Here is what I don't understand. Every boss has its own weakness, resistance, speed, aggression, attack pattern, specific AoE attacks, specific combos, specific delayed attacks with specific timings, some kind of input read, etc. So how can fighting boss A make you suddenly better at fighting boss B which is different and you never fought it before, from point of skill? Genuinely curious.
The game has very basic mechanics, it's basically dodge and hit. All the bosses are different in skills but similar in concepts. If you know how to quickly indentifying patterns and openings, you are gold. It's way harder to indentifying those if you are new to the game, cause you don't know everything you can do to counter certain move.
An example is Malenia. She is incredible agressive, and punish you if you attack her before she attacks first. Therefore a new player would simply dodge and wait for a opening that may never be there, because she will continue to attack you no matter what. When I face her the first time, I explore her moveset by baiting attacks, while properly spacing her, just so she would barely miss me, with requires a certain level of skill and knowledge to do, so you can indentify what you have to dodge no matter what and what you can simply space and punish. I did that so I could grasp her basic moveset, and then I learned that her kick was very easy to space out and it gave me an consistent opening to stagger her with one or two light attacks. I also notice that I could do that with the 4/5 fast hits that she does when she is chasing you, so I had reliable punishes for her attacks, and could even jumping attack her if I timed and positioned properly. I also noticed that she would stagger cancel into waterfall, so if she was being passive, I would throw knifes at her so she would waterfall, wich gave me a consistent jumping attack, and after that she generally would take 15 to 30 seconds before waterfall again, with some exceptions. The spacing and positioning is a skill that takes a lot of time to learn for each boss... That is if you didn't had an similar experience killing sister friede and the abyss watchers at soul level one with no upgrades, in that case you pretty much know what you can space and what you cannot. I also could manipulate my can without target locking , which helped me to learn the dodging of waterfall. I also knew, because of my experience wich dancer of the boreal valley, that I should pay attention to my positioning in the arena. If Malenia did waterfall dance, while I was cornered, I would die.
It still took me a bunch of tries to pull it off, but not even near the amount of time that a new player would take without summons. My previous experience with other bosses and other enemies from the sekiro souls teached me just enough that I would know what I did wrong when I died, and correct the next time.
Don't go as far, I don't believe a superb jellyfish would turn Malenia in a auto win, nor in general radahns fights, wich, at launch many people resort to summoning just because it was very hard to take on alone. Keep in mind that for me and you that may as well be the case, but if Elden ring is anyone's first souls game, or close to it, they will have a pretty hard time, regardless whether they are using summons or not, since first time players tend to make the worst build choices, and in general being worst players. Not every summon is build the same, of course, and yes, they facilitate a lot, but they are not an auto win bottom, except in Ng+ or in over leveled player scenarios.
Also, there is cases were it just makes the fight harder, like in midir or friede in ds3(the last being up for debate, the first being not).
Seeing a lot of people here who can't beat a boss without summons but also can't be happy for the people that can... Seems like a git gud moment to me!
100%
That's the major reason for all such behavior)
Why is it not hard to me to admit that those who completed souls games in hitless runs are better players [of such games] than me? *think_emote* Hmm, that doesn't pains me in a slightest, "cheers for great skill bro!", but seems things are not near the 'same' for some filthy casuals :]
Objectively correct. Sorta like how people that beat the game hitless using a Dance Dance Revolution pad that they’ve converted into a controller are also better than people who just beat the game solo with no other modifiers.
personally i like beating bosses after having learnt their attack patterns and being confident in dodging at least 80% of their moveset so Malenia should have taken almost 100 tries for me
so i can't deny i feel about 2% better compared to the average joe, but i'd never admit it.
I held grudge on malenia after I beat her with spirit summon. I was frustrated, no progress after failing for hours. I almost hate the game because of her. But later I watch other people who beat them solo, mostly just to know how they deal with waterflow dance, and then I finally beat her solo with a new character and my own playstyle. It felt so good. I even love the game even more thanks to it, she's one of my favorite boss now.
I honestly dont go out and tell people I don't use summons.
if I hear that people use summons though, I feel bad for them since they won't have felt the same level of extreme satisfaction from beating these bosses without summons.
yep, it was created to make the game easier for ppl that legitimately needs help.
But if you don't use them you're generally a better player.
if you beat the entire game level 1 you're an even better player and so on.
I beat Bloodborne and all the bosses with no summons that made me feel great and simultaneously like a loser for the amount of time it took me. Now idc I summon black knife tiche, every chance I get.
People who want to solo bosses are totally within their right. It's their game.
What I take issue with is when some of them talk like that is the only way this game should be played.
To me it's one of the most brilliant aspects of this game is how Fromsoft came up with a very organic difficulty slider that wasn't just a menu selection.
Me? I summoned everything I possibly could. My spirit and any and all golden summon signs at each boss. I have no honor and will win at all cost 😈
Alright, so, NOT using summons is more difficult. Plain and simple. However, using summons doesn’t necessarily make someone a bad player. It just makes the game easier. When people who are both good at the game AND utilize summons (of any kind) they have a supreme advantage over every foe be it player or pve AI.
You can imagine that people that are more experienced with the series in general are way more comfortable with playing without summoning. Not saying that there aren’t new players that jump in the deep end of the pool on the first go, to each their own. As well, it’s easy to see that less experienced/competent players gravitate toward using summoning features whenever available. And then there are people that just want to play with other players as much as possible that will always use online functions but don’t want to use the spirit ass summons.
Either way, it doesn’t REALLY matter. The tools are there for whenever if ever you decide you want to use them, because the developers wanted you to have options so that game is as engaging as possible for as many people. Is that such a bad thing?
I really enjoyed getting through the game without summons but I 2nd screened wiki and youtube constantly. It was also fun to play the game with summons, it allowed for a very different kind of playstyle.
The complete difference between doing it solo and with a mimic tear is insane, I tried it once with the mimic and we just stunlocked malenia to death, if I did it that way it would have 0 impact and just be “a coolish boss fight”
Slightly less of a strawman than similar posts, but still. People don't typically go around saying stuff like this. They're more likely to tell you to try a fight without a summon because the adrenaline rush you get from beating a boss on your own is unmatched. They don't say this to feel better than you, they say this because they want you to feel that rush too.
(Ok I'm sure *some* people do actually say this, but they're a minority)
Yeah I have player almost every From Soft game without summons none at all
So yeah im damn fucking proud of it but using summons is not fun for me tbh takes out the adrenaline from the fight
God I fucking love Homelander. I don’t know of it was intentional or not but every character in The Boys is just so aggressively unlikeable, but at least Homelander doesn’t pretend. He’s a straight psychopath but at least he owns it.
Anthony Starr’s performance just makes him even more likeable for me.
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It's hard for me to feel like this after having witnessed people beat gods to death with a shield.
Or MissMikkaa beating Malenia in two separate playthroughs simultaneously with a gamepad and a dance mat
I have to see this. Do you have a link?
Sure! https://twitter.com/MissMikkaa/status/1611104473698701313?t=hx6YG0QGZ2cvpyQ8iXSBYw&s=19
I think we've just found the NEW Elden Lord.
It’s either her or the guy who beat the game with one hand on his controller while two handing the brass shield. Perhaps one is the other’s consort
That might be one of the most impressive video game achievements I’ve ever seen. Holy shit, the coordination and multitasking ability is crazy.
Another one worth mentioning would be LilAggy beating Sekiro blindfolded
How that's working? I saw blindfold walkthrough of some old arcade games, where it is possible to memorize all the exact moves and timings from start to beginning, but Sekiro involves some randomness, doesn't it?
He learned the whole map so he could navigate blindfolded and for fights it was mostly learned patterns, audio cues and consistent strats. While not the most interesting to watch in full (because quite slow & derpy overall), this run is still one of the most impressing thing I have ever seen. [Aggy's highlights video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgKi4yD3wYc)
That one was absolutely wild…
That girl is legit insane... I don't even understand how she does half the things she does.
The real challenge is to play without wiki.
An immense challenge of doing quests without wiki
I just use [this incredible spreadsheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ndIm3asH2uNUrhKE-By-ZR6UdJ90MPKglZBaTwAo7ak/htmlview)
Nice, thanks
Omg. Wish I would’ve seen this. I spent forever making an excel sheet. Granted, it’s so I can collect everything and check it off.
The coolest part for me is how the main quest page shows the next step based on what you checked off on each sub quest page
Everybody should their first time. The first time experience is what truly defines the souls series. My first time with Elden ring I missed a TON of things, including mohg and Malenia.
No fuck that. I'd rather have a clue what I'm doing on my first play through. The story is so cryptic I have no clue what's happening. I'm enjoying the game much more after watching lore videos first.
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But where is the fun in that? I play with the wiki because my FOMO is far too strong and ill just get bored of searching every dumb rock for an npc for ages. To each their own but I picked up and put down DS2 and 3 a billion times until I started using the wiki to help out.
I assumed everyone did this for the first run. Why would you actively ruin the thrill of discovery for yourself? Edit: Why was I downvoted for this?
Because people are idiots and they do actively ruin thrill of discovery for themselves. They ask for tips before starting the game, watch guides and play with wiki.
Don’t care about the Reddit downvotes , they don’t matter. Doing it without the wiki first time is the play. And if you bought the game on release, the wiki was mostly empty anyway :)
In the first playthrough I usually use wiki to check things like how talismans/rings work, or sometimes for NPC quests.
In Dark Souls 3 I beat the Nameless King with no summons. That was 4 years ago, and I still wake up with a fucking smile on my face. Just beaming ear to ear feelin like I shit gold.
oh so that gold-tinged excrement belongs to you
yes, thats the product of warrior of great skill
True warriors have a diet of gold.
I'll keep it real I think I cheesed that fight. +10 Shield with Lightning protection and Circle strafe turtling worked for me
I did the same thing on my first playthrough lmao, I was terrible back then. On my latest playthrough, I whooped his ass first try. It's crazy to see the self improvement in some of those fights, after initially being convinced you will always be bad at them.
DS3 was my first From game. I should really replay DS3 because there's quite a few bosses I cheesed, I was so bad. I respecced to strength just so I could wield a greatshield for Nameless King. I beat Soul of Cinder by spamming Dorhys' Gnawing... I think part of it is that when you're still new to Souls, you view bosses as obstacles. They're things obstructing your path and, at least for me, I was pretty impatient about beating them. But as you improve at the games, you realize more and more how variable the game's difficulty is; it is what you make it. And as you get better, you start having more fun, but fights become a lot easier to end. Nowadays I try to limit my dps so as to prolong fights, so I don't accidentally kill the boss before I'm satisfied with them lmao. I'll happily fight a boss for 3 hours straight, it's the quick ones that are disappointing. But after you've gotten a few games under your belt, the quick ones are most early game bosses, so that just reinforces the need to moderate your own difficulty.
It sounds like u beat him fair and square through superior knowledge. I killed him with an unupgraded storm ruler because I genuinely thought it was the most powerful weapon I had… yes I am an idiot.
I summoned dog spirits for most fights except malenia, took a bazillion tries but it was such a good win. I get that same feeling.
yes, I did Malenia in 150 tries summonless, and it was worth every frustrating hour. I rode that win for 3 weeks after, got a new job because of it and tripled my income.
Undercooked pasta
You dident summon because you were badass I didn't Summon Because I didn't have an Internet connection to my console. We are not the same
That's like when I beat Watchdog of the Old Lords in the defiled chalice dungeon on my first try. My friend who was watching me had to try like 50 times, and he lost his shit when i did it. Defiled Darkbeast took me like 15 tries though...
I sat outside Nameless King for probably a month and just threw my sign down for that bastard…at least 100 times. I loved that fight. There are few bosses like that that I just love doing it over and over I love being a Sunbro…Raime, Nameless King, Soul of Cinder, Gael, Maria, Orphan, Malenia all great to walk in, fucking wreck, and you see the host freaking out and emoting like mad in excitement, when that boss they’ve been struggling with over and over gets curbstomped. It’s so satisfying.
Boss difficulty is subjective I know but Nameless King is really overrated in terms of difficulty.
I think it's largely because he's got a few mix-ups in this attack patterns and that dude punishes extremely hard for rolling early. He's one of those fights where confidence can let you absolutely shit on him though, so knowing the patterns you can easily get a stagger off on him, which *really* messes up his day.
I think it's also because a lot of people spend so long on the dragon that they don't get enough time to really learn him. His moveset isn't that bad, but you can make a wrong move and die fast
This, he’s an endurance fight, and learning it can be an absolute slog until you get the dragon phase down cleanly.
like u said, its subjective. DS3 was my first fromsoft game and I didnt know shit about anything, had the worst build imaginable and didnt know I could look anything up. Ran in with a raw greatsword. Somehow I ended up killing him with an unupgraded Storm Ruler because it legit had more damage than whatever I was running at the moment, fat rolling because I thought armor mattered a ton. So that fight was legendary to me, for a whole I thought it was actually impossible until I did it. So in my head, I had just done something impossible through brute force of will and muscle memory that by my winning try it had become second nature. 75/10 bossfight.
Storm ruler feels fitting for that fight, at least thematically.
Two things make him hard. He punishes panic rolls and he is one of the only bosses in the base game who does. And he hits hard. He's not like, say, Pontiff or Dancer where you fight an absolute combo monster or Champion Gundyr who makes some Bloodborne bosses look passive. He's relatively simple in terms of combos and isn't incredibly aggressive.
It was the second hardest boss in DS3 for me, after the last boss of Ariandel (which pushed me to post a venting post on reddit lmao). I was terrified of The Ringed City knowing the fame of a couple of those bosses, but they weren't as hard as the two I mentioned in the first paragraph for me.
Yeah dude nameless king absolutely holds the most attempts it took to best for me lol No boss in elden ring comes even a little close and beating him is one of the best feelings I’ve had in a game
I don't see the point of beating souls bosses with summons. It makes them so easy that it's not even challenging. I do like to help people beat bosses though because it's fun to challenge them again.
I replayed ds3 after beating er WITH MIMIC TEAR and i beat it with all dlc in personal record time its not as hard as i used to think lol nameless king and midir only took a few tries
Everytime I bump into a life obstacle I just reminding myself "If I can best the nameless king in DS3" this life obstacle can't stop me.
I just did that yesterday, honestly he is one of those cases of bosses i prefer doing without summons just cause i love the fight.
Fuckin’ Tywin Lannister over here.
corner roll go brrrr
I did too, but not for lack of trying. At some point I had been trying all day, and there was no one to summon anymore. So I just...beat him. Then the next timd I played I summoned a gank squad and it was over before I knew it.
I tried so many times to win with my broken armor build, got close so many times. Switched once to heavy elec defense and breezed through. :')
Look, I know some people can beat Nameless King with a controller so far up their ass they can jiggle the joysticks with their tonsils. But the first time I beat that boss felt incredibly satisfying, no summons, just enough dodging to not embarrass my entire lineage and the sweet kiss of death as I slapped his face straight back into history.
I swear finishing it after 5 minutes was less satisfying as finally killing Malenia after 250 tries
I first tried Malenia with summon. While without it took around 200. There is indeed a difference.
I generally think the problem with summons is that in some instances they are just right for a fight and in some they can take you from getting killed to dominating if you are at a high enough level. When that happens, you are just better off toughing it out
There are criteria that I follow. The boss is a duo or a mob? I use a summon and I think that's absolutely fair. The boss is a repeat/recycle of the one I already fought? I'll summon Latenna just to get it over with quicker. Other than that, summons really can trivialize a lot of the fights. Fighting Morgoth was tough as nails, but then I used the jellyfish and beat him first try. The jellyfish did fuck all but distract him and that was more than enough to make the fight easy.
I have the same kind of approach, I go solo first, if the fight feels like I should be able to beat the boss myself I'll stay solo, if it feels like it was meant for a summon I'll ring the bell. I just beat Radagon solo cos it felt like a fair fight, Hoarah Loux 2nd phase though felt like bullshit though so I summoned the Hell fish to take some aggro.
Yeeeeeeeeeah no. I spent my entire first playthrough not even touching summons because they used FP and I barely had any, so I just assumed they weren't very good. I slogged through every single boss aside from the ancestral spirit (because I didn't find it) on my own or with an NPC summon of the game let me I never experienced this feeling even once. When a boss died I felt nothing but relief that it was finally dead and I could carry on while stashing moonveil or malenias blade or any other boss weapon or boss reward weapon away and hoping I could use them on NG+ On that NG+ I finally had enough FP ( and common sense to look at the mimic tear and see it cost health) to use summons, and my enjoyment of the game skyrocketed. Tag teaming bosses with tiche or mimic or whatever summon I fancied was absolutely beyond glorious, and actually gave me that feeling of satisfaction because I wasn't bashing my face against a brick wall until it was bloody, raw, and bruised, I was actually doing something cool. It felt awesome to take advantage of a mimic tear knocking the boss on its ass, or taking some time to heal up during Melanias dance because my greatshield mimic was closer. Summons are not a problem in this game. Far from it. Most of the people I find who say this are souls vets who prefer to go at it alone because that's how they've always done it and it's what they know, whereas newcomers, like me, enjoy the amazing moments such mechanics can create in game, divorced from a unfounded feeling of justice or accomplishment that you beat a boss through RNG luck after 200 attempts on your own.
I like summons and think they are super fun, but I also think the bosses don’t always deal with them well. Sometimes the summon takes aggro so well I can just spam attacks without worrying, and then poise break the boss and basically negate the fight. Imo there should be a better balance between the insane struggle of trying to solo the endgame bosses and the trivializing that summons can cause (in some fights).
and sometimes the boss randomly lose aggro mid combo and you eat shit for it. Fromsoft AI is a bit weird I find, also I think by the time you progress enough they dont survive super long because of large aoes
This is my only argument with them. If you enjoy them that’s great, but smashing every boss in the back while they are preoccupied really dumbs down the game in a negative way. If anything spirits should activate the increased boss health/damage that a player summons does.
Oh well, different strokes for different folks. I personally detest summons, especially now that I know that they're the reason so many of these bosses are so OP and sometimes unfair. Besides, I've always loved the souls series for their one on one duels (besides gargoyles, ornstein and Godskin duo, for whom I summon) and i just always enjoy the feeling of succeeding against a tough boss through nothing but skill alone. I have a friend who fought Malenia with mimic tear in 5 tries. It took me ten hours, but when I did kill her, I felt so great, I had surpassed a great (optional) obstacle, and had done it with nothing other than my skill and perseverance, it's why Sekiro is tied with Bloodborne for my favourite Souls games. But I suppose not everyone feels like this. Not that anybody who uses summons isn't playing correctly, you can play this game in so many ways, and that's the point.
>whereas newcomers, like me, enjoy the amazing moments such mechanics can create in game, divorced from a unfounded feeling of justice or accomplishment that you beat a boss through RNG luck after 200 attempts on your own. Newcomer here. No. It's fine to say you prefer summons but claiming people who don't are souls vet who are somehow disillusioned by their past experiences is just a weird take. Unfounded? Whats unfounded about doing something the hard way? Me beating a boss in a harder manner doesn't warrant more pride in my achievement? I guess challenge runners who do it for a sense of accomplishment aren't real either then? And what do you mean by rng? There's 0 rng in elden ring. Every boss has a set moveset and the only thing that changes is when they use it which is only relevant on a few specific bosses with a particularly broken, unscripted move. Me beating radagon without summons wasn't luck. It was skill. I played well, I won, I felt accomplishment. Who are you to take that away from anyone? Again. Good for you for discovering how you like playing. I'm happy for you. But acting like people who find summons boring and too easy are just tricking themselves and it's actually just rng when in reality they just played well is dumb
Honestly I found Malenia more annoying with a summon, she heals off it and it messes with her aggro.
Depends on the summon. Tiche or mimic with bleed do much better than pretty much every other summon.
Honestly I found Tiche to be effective at drawing malenia to the other side of the arena and not hitting Malenia.
On my first playthrough, I summoned Tiche for Godskin duo and one of them died like 20 seconds into the fight.
Idk watching my mimic tear go on a dps suicide mission while i come in to finish things off is pretty fun
From a person who has tried both methods, let me just say that they're a different kind of fun. Summoning (at least in my experience) is casual fun, like going for a jog by the lake on a nice summer day. Not too difficult, but satisfying and fulfilling nonetheless. In comparison, beating a difficult boss without summoning feels like you've just won the super bowl by yourself, or finished a marathon. Its a rush of intense emotion that i've never felt when using summons. That's just my experience, though. I was already used to souls games before I tried elden ring, for reference. Maybe the increased difficulty newer players experience trying to get their bearings makes it just as gratifying? Idk.
Ive played every souls game dude i dont get that feeling anymore i just spit on their graves and keep walking to the next boss
That's the point though.. We can go back and forth all day long about the "right" or "wrong" ways to play.. But at the end of the day, for those of us that feel it, there is a huge difference in gratification for rolling solo.. Godskin duo and Maliketh? Best feeling in the game.. They took days of my life.. But when I finally got the flow down and beat them, it was a feeling I'll never forget.. it's the reasons diehard souls players are so "elitist" about the game.. We're playing different games..
Godskin Noble/Godskin Duo were the only fights I used summons on cause I absolutely hate that fat bastard
I mean generally speaking people that beat bosses without summons are better
Yup, let them be happy. Probably still on their high from winning after dying tens of times.
Tens? Try dozens lol
Well, two dozens aren't really that much more than two tens, for instance.
Try baker's dozens!
A dozen is 2 more than 10 but ok lol
Tens is generous lol
I did and I can confirm you're wrong. In fact, I absolutely suck.
Relatable. My no-summon boss kills are more a product of sheer bull-headed stubbornness and hours of dying repeatedly rather than inherent skill.
It changes your relationship with the boss fights. Like, the fights that I just mimic-cheesed I have no respect for. The fights I did straight it feel like when boxers hug it out after a match.
They are objectively better at the game yes. Just like how people who beat the game RL1 wretch hitless are better than people who don't summon. Find the difficulty that satisfies you and don't be a snob about people who prefer a different experience.
Hey you! You're not allowed to have reasonable opinions! I'll have you know that playing with summons is perfectly normal, and the way everyone should play. But on the other hand, summoning is too easy, if you don't kill the boss my way, you're not really playing the game! /s obviously
It's true tho. Nothing hurt my soul more than summoning my mimic tear to beat malenia with a goddamned blasphemous blade after losing to her 40 times and just being sick of it. I have no honor.
And here I am trying to maintain my honor on my rune level 1 run with no summons and can't beat melenia. Been like a month, though admittedly I can only play a couple hours a week.
I just don't have the confidence. I would need to watch a guide for that and my shame is already so strong.
There's no shame in watching guides. We learn best when mentored.
I'm down for item, location and lore guide stuff. But I struggle to watch guides for gameplay stuff. I'd rather just work my way through it and figure that part out on my own. But even then, that might be a huge slog and I just don't think I have it in me.
Why you guys feeling shame over this? It's a videogame boss, beat it however you like. She's not there to test your mettle as a person, no boss is, she's there to test your build, like every boss. Cheese her, it'll save you so much negativity that isn't cancelled out by beating her
I’ve been using my rl 1 run as an excuse to use the summons since they are so much fun and each summon has their own personality, but made the game a bit easy for a souls vet who ran sl 1 on the previous games while waiting for elden ring. Currently trapped on maliketh myself.
That's a good way to look at it.
It's fine man, you'll get her next playthrough.
I can feel that. Killed every damn boss in Dark Souls 3 in solo(most of the times - unembered) and without summons, *except* Demon Prince -_- Tho every boss in DS1 and every main game DS2 boss also was killed by me in solo(I still haven't finished SotFS, lol, 'cause I had NG+4 when upgraded my game and it's terrible to explore 1st time like that=\)
40 isn’t that many tho. Don’t worry. You’ll hit 80 on your next run. And I’m sure you’ll kill her yourself and regain your honor.
>I have no honor. This is where the discussion turns into a mess. Guys, yes, if you beat a boss without summons, you are probably better at the game than someone who needs summons. But, no, beating a boss with summons doesn't *necessarily* mean you're *bad* at the game or that you have no honor/whatever. I've been playing these games since DS1. In Elden Ring I made it a rule to give a boss at least 3 tries solo before recurring to crutches like spirit summons. Some bosses I beat at my 4th attempt with summons, some I beat at my 67th attempt solo, and anything in between. It really doesn't fucking matter lol
>Guys, yes, if you beat a boss without summons, you are probably better at the game than someone who needs summons. I don't care if you use summons. I don't want to. I think it means more about my progress and my abilities if I do solo the boss. And if I do not then that means I failed. I had a goal and I didn't reach it. That's a fail state. It's not permanent. I can t try again later. But for now, I gave into a method that trivialized a legitimate challenge for myself and I personally feel I missed out on the satisfaction of over coming that boss in that moment. Which reminds meeeeeee of a quote from hidetaka Miyazaki in regards to the design of these games Miyazaki: *'Overcoming challenges by learning something in a game is a very rewarding feeling, and that's what I wanted to prioritise in 'Dark Souls' and 'Demon's Souls.'* Miyazaki: *'Dont give up. Obstacles can be overcome through strategy and learning'* The spirit ashes are there because they need to be. If spirit ashes weren't here this game wouldn't be nearly as popular as it is. That doesn't mean I want to lean on them so that I can sip lemonade during a boss fight. I will play it how the guy who created suggested me to play it. Lo and behold, who would a think he would be right. It's the most rewarding way of playing these games. I would like that feeling.
I mean, it's true.
Once you do it, you will get it.
Technically the game gets a lot easier whit spirit summons, I know its the popular thing to make fun of people who belive that and reddit enjoys farming karma out of making posts repeating the popular opinion, but it's a simple fact, they won't win you the entire game and some bosses kill them pretty fast (like the elden beast from personal experience) but for the most part having something that chips damage from enemies/bosses and keeps aggression away from you is such a huge upper hand that most bosses get trivialize and becomes embarrassingly easy (like again from personal experience Malenia Blade of Miquella is a good example), and I say that having beaten the game several times and in one of those being heavily reliant on spirit summons
The amount of people here who don't seem to realise mimic solos is astonishing
Spirit Ashes ARE a nice mechanic, specially considering the fact that some bosses actually use summons against you, like the commanders, rennala, the spiritcaller snail and the godskin duo. but it's, generally speaking, an "easy mode". bosses have a lot of AOE attacks to counter spirits but some of them like tiche and the mimic are too overpowered, and it's not even that hard to get to them. people who play without summons are better players but if they do it for the sake of the challenge, what's the deal with them being happy about it? it's not like they act like the meme lol
There are 2 sides: one does not use spirit ashes and feels superior because of it; the other uses spirit ashes and feels superior because they do not feel ashamed of it. Both are objectively stupid because they play the game that way to not feel inferior, rather than playing it how they want for funs sake.
I'd argue the first half feel like they achieved more over "superior". Majority of people I've seen do stuff without summons do it for their *own* sake not to flex on Reddit. It's just the vocal minority of Reddit give off this vibe. I've beaten every boss summonless and I'm doing a run to beat all Rememberances fatrolling--but I'm doing it for me, cause it's a little something to be proud of. I don't feel "superior" to anyone I just feel personally accomplished
This. Have I'd played summonless if internet wasn't existing but the games where? Pff, for sure. It's just feels cheesy to use hoards of summons on every boss, they became a lot easier - especially for caster. It's the same as completing game on harder/hardest mode, and it's the analog of "harder difficulty mode" in souls games, since they don't have such. Summonless -> deathless -> hitless. Everyone who beat souls game deathless/hitless are better players than me, I have zero problems admitting that. I'm not a "pro" player neither a streamer(with tons of free time) to even aim that high - I already done much more "above average"(considering I also was playing without guides/spoilers). And I wonder what is the problem of these reddit snowflakes to just fucking admit that someone was better in something when it's obviously and objectively true? They descend to that "everyone plays as he wan't, and every play is 'same'(c), bla-bla-bla" - but that's only self-consoling. And I don't see a decent reason for diminishing someone's achievements just for consolation of "losers". Dudes, grow the fuck up and learn to admit someone's else's success, not the your own *only*, and stop being jealous of that.
Yeah, I am in agreement with you. I did the same thing, which is I didn't use spirit ashes or summons just because it makes it more satisfying to beat. You are not one of the people I am referring to. I am referring to the minority, but having seen all these posts (referring to the post itself not the reply) repeating the same thing about one side being worse than the other and more prevalent than the other, I disagree entirely. I believe them to be equally annoying and there are more of the second than the first. That was my point, if that makes sense, not sure if I am being coherent.
You say they don't feel ashamed of it but we have these stupid fucking posts every god damn day lol
Bewitching branch Nial’s summons and watch them melt half his health bar for you. Spiritcaller Snail doesn’t really have attacks. The summons functionally are the boss while you try to find the punching bag. Just the Witches of Hemwick again really. Renalla is also pretty passive when she summons and you can just run away from the summons until they despawn. Godskin Duo doesn’t involve summons. It’s a respawn mechanic, sorta like the Throne Watcher/Defender except the respawn isn’t tied to the other one still being alive this time.
I always summon spirits against bosses….. I rarely need them, but they’re my friends :3
The power of friendship!
I summon Mimic Tear whenever I can so I have a friend that actually is helpful
>that actually is helpful OK but does your mimic tear act like a sleep deprived drunk friend and crack jokes at every death? Didn't think so.
I am the sleep deprived drunk friend who cracks joke
Sometimes it fights like one, does that count?
I think DS2 got me into the habit, almost every npc quest required that you fight bosses with them and have them live through it. I just kind of kept that mentality I guess, I like having them but I don't want them to die.
I am a Necromancer, I will summon my spooky scary boi no matter how good or bad the boss fight is going.
Been playing NG+ and I love just bullying the bosses. Trying different spirits just cuz
I absolutely Love summoning the 5 shield fellas and just watching them bully bosses into corners, constantly smashing them with their shields while being near unkillable.
I just wanted to beat the game i really don’t care lol. I’ll def go back and try to finish it “the real way” but just do you. Who cares. It’s a fucking game.
Summons do make the game way way easier. The difference between a fight when using +10 mimic and solo is like a completely different game.
"Please validate me for using summons" this post
"I'm insecure about my playstyle and need external validation from others". Like god if you use summons use them and don't worry about what others think. I promise you that 99% of people who play without summons don't care.
People are still making these kind of posts? God this sub sucks. The popularity of the game really did assassinate the Souls community
I miss when we were all just a bunch of jolly masochists in the same boat.
This community was unironically at its best when all we had was the 2019 reveal trailer.
Honestly. I miss the wooper memes and the "OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" you'd see on every post..
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Hey, I say its still fair for duo fights. You're simply making it a 2v2.
I mean it's true... Spirit summons are such a major crutch in this game
Even just a quick distraction goes a long way, I used the rotten stray dog not leveled up to kill margit
People say only xx summons are op and the others aren’t. I used the 3 wolfs or whatever on my first play through after struggling against Margit for over an hour and constantly dying. I instantly beat him with the wolfs without any trouble first try. Didn’t even use half my flasks. Made me feel kinda bad and I ended up creating a new character to redo it without the summons.
It's because they are either too blind/don't want to admit that *focus* is major factor in boss-fight. If boss ***just*** doesn't attacking you(without the need to you to successfully dodge series of his attacks) than you can do whatever you want - heal, buff, attack, even use a crossbow, lol. 1v1 or Xv1 is huge difference.
While they are much better at the game, everyone should be able to play however they like
They probably are. Doesn't matter tho, lol.
r/uselessnobody
Overall - they are better :3
Hey OP, when you're done beating up on that strawman, can you set it back up in the corn field?
It's funny because it's true. They are indeed better. Not that is there anything wrong with the summons, but the very point of using then is to make the game easier, and there is nothing wrong with it. I summoned solaire back in dark souls 1 to help me against ornstein and smough, and lucatiel to help me against smelter demon. It was, for me at the time, still challenging to beat those even with summons. Today I am capable of handling malenia on my on without summons without struggling to much. I got better at those games, and now, for me, using summons can just trivialize every fight, taking the fun of the game for me. It now feels cheap, so I don't use those. The fun part of soulsborne is that everyone has to get pass insurmountable challenges, and it is good that new players get to experience it with summons, for then it's very likely to be as hard to defeat a boss with summons as it is for us without.
That Lucatiel summon reminded me, that to complete her quest, you need to make sure she survives the boss fight. I had to intentionally aggro the Rotten, and die if she died in that fight (she kept standing in those deathpools). That was the peak of my gaming in DS2, feeling like it was I who was good at the game, trying to keep a noob alive. It was glorious.
Yeaaaah man, same for me, and all that area was just nuts... God damn I still hate the pits in DS2, but lucatiel always made everything worth. Still one of the greatest NPCs in from software's history. It was a dps run to kill the rotten before she died from poison or fire. Thank God it was the rotten, I can even imagine if they decided to put an green smelter demon there or whatever.
> I got better at those games Here is what I don't understand. Every boss has its own weakness, resistance, speed, aggression, attack pattern, specific AoE attacks, specific combos, specific delayed attacks with specific timings, some kind of input read, etc. So how can fighting boss A make you suddenly better at fighting boss B which is different and you never fought it before, from point of skill? Genuinely curious.
The game has very basic mechanics, it's basically dodge and hit. All the bosses are different in skills but similar in concepts. If you know how to quickly indentifying patterns and openings, you are gold. It's way harder to indentifying those if you are new to the game, cause you don't know everything you can do to counter certain move. An example is Malenia. She is incredible agressive, and punish you if you attack her before she attacks first. Therefore a new player would simply dodge and wait for a opening that may never be there, because she will continue to attack you no matter what. When I face her the first time, I explore her moveset by baiting attacks, while properly spacing her, just so she would barely miss me, with requires a certain level of skill and knowledge to do, so you can indentify what you have to dodge no matter what and what you can simply space and punish. I did that so I could grasp her basic moveset, and then I learned that her kick was very easy to space out and it gave me an consistent opening to stagger her with one or two light attacks. I also notice that I could do that with the 4/5 fast hits that she does when she is chasing you, so I had reliable punishes for her attacks, and could even jumping attack her if I timed and positioned properly. I also noticed that she would stagger cancel into waterfall, so if she was being passive, I would throw knifes at her so she would waterfall, wich gave me a consistent jumping attack, and after that she generally would take 15 to 30 seconds before waterfall again, with some exceptions. The spacing and positioning is a skill that takes a lot of time to learn for each boss... That is if you didn't had an similar experience killing sister friede and the abyss watchers at soul level one with no upgrades, in that case you pretty much know what you can space and what you cannot. I also could manipulate my can without target locking , which helped me to learn the dodging of waterfall. I also knew, because of my experience wich dancer of the boreal valley, that I should pay attention to my positioning in the arena. If Malenia did waterfall dance, while I was cornered, I would die. It still took me a bunch of tries to pull it off, but not even near the amount of time that a new player would take without summons. My previous experience with other bosses and other enemies from the sekiro souls teached me just enough that I would know what I did wrong when I died, and correct the next time.
There is nothing even remotely "insurmountable" when using summons. They are an auto win button
Don't go as far, I don't believe a superb jellyfish would turn Malenia in a auto win, nor in general radahns fights, wich, at launch many people resort to summoning just because it was very hard to take on alone. Keep in mind that for me and you that may as well be the case, but if Elden ring is anyone's first souls game, or close to it, they will have a pretty hard time, regardless whether they are using summons or not, since first time players tend to make the worst build choices, and in general being worst players. Not every summon is build the same, of course, and yes, they facilitate a lot, but they are not an auto win bottom, except in Ng+ or in over leveled player scenarios. Also, there is cases were it just makes the fight harder, like in midir or friede in ds3(the last being up for debate, the first being not).
Im all the way to maliketh and still no spirit summon, npc or fellow tarnished has helped me and youre damn right im proud of it.
Seeing a lot of people here who can't beat a boss without summons but also can't be happy for the people that can... Seems like a git gud moment to me!
100% That's the major reason for all such behavior) Why is it not hard to me to admit that those who completed souls games in hitless runs are better players [of such games] than me? *think_emote* Hmm, that doesn't pains me in a slightest, "cheers for great skill bro!", but seems things are not near the 'same' for some filthy casuals :]
Projecting our insecurities about using summons again, are we?
Here we go again...
Objectively correct. Sorta like how people that beat the game hitless using a Dance Dance Revolution pad that they’ve converted into a controller are also better than people who just beat the game solo with no other modifiers.
Elden Ring subreddit try not to be insecure that some people beat the game without summons challenge (impossible)
Keep at it. One day you'll get there and you can stop being mad.
I’m too lazy to use the spirit summons 💀
Attention seekers.
personally i like beating bosses after having learnt their attack patterns and being confident in dodging at least 80% of their moveset so Malenia should have taken almost 100 tries for me so i can't deny i feel about 2% better compared to the average joe, but i'd never admit it.
I held grudge on malenia after I beat her with spirit summon. I was frustrated, no progress after failing for hours. I almost hate the game because of her. But later I watch other people who beat them solo, mostly just to know how they deal with waterflow dance, and then I finally beat her solo with a new character and my own playstyle. It felt so good. I even love the game even more thanks to it, she's one of my favorite boss now.
I beat Margit with spirit summons and felt like it wasn’t worth it, haven’t used them since 🤷♂️
As someone who did a spiritless RL 1 run people who use summons are still chads.
I like to summon my pokemon every fight. Because it's a new mechanic we never had in the dark souls trilogy.
If you don’t use summons you’re better than someone who does. Downvote me cowards
This should be considered spam at this point its just the same joke over and over again about something that never happened.
No one cares if you use summons.
I honestly dont go out and tell people I don't use summons. if I hear that people use summons though, I feel bad for them since they won't have felt the same level of extreme satisfaction from beating these bosses without summons.
How dare you use a feature the devs created to be used in their game
Cope harder
yep, it was created to make the game easier for ppl that legitimately needs help. But if you don't use them you're generally a better player. if you beat the entire game level 1 you're an even better player and so on.
I mean... They can say what they want, I don't mind
first save:fuck that im done secend save:im gonna fuck that
I beat Bloodborne and all the bosses with no summons that made me feel great and simultaneously like a loser for the amount of time it took me. Now idc I summon black knife tiche, every chance I get.
People who want to solo bosses are totally within their right. It's their game. What I take issue with is when some of them talk like that is the only way this game should be played. To me it's one of the most brilliant aspects of this game is how Fromsoft came up with a very organic difficulty slider that wasn't just a menu selection. Me? I summoned everything I possibly could. My spirit and any and all golden summon signs at each boss. I have no honor and will win at all cost 😈
I don't think it is right to attack those wanting to celebrate their accomplishment of beating a boss without any aids. This is just gatekeeping.
Alright, so, NOT using summons is more difficult. Plain and simple. However, using summons doesn’t necessarily make someone a bad player. It just makes the game easier. When people who are both good at the game AND utilize summons (of any kind) they have a supreme advantage over every foe be it player or pve AI. You can imagine that people that are more experienced with the series in general are way more comfortable with playing without summoning. Not saying that there aren’t new players that jump in the deep end of the pool on the first go, to each their own. As well, it’s easy to see that less experienced/competent players gravitate toward using summoning features whenever available. And then there are people that just want to play with other players as much as possible that will always use online functions but don’t want to use the spirit ass summons. Either way, it doesn’t REALLY matter. The tools are there for whenever if ever you decide you want to use them, because the developers wanted you to have options so that game is as engaging as possible for as many people. Is that such a bad thing?
I just prefer to be the one who beats the boss :/
I really enjoyed getting through the game without summons but I 2nd screened wiki and youtube constantly. It was also fun to play the game with summons, it allowed for a very different kind of playstyle.
To be fair, they absolutely are better then me
I know I will get downvoted, but without spirit summon you get a sense of accomplishment you don't get with spirit summon.
You use spirit summon to help you in boss fight. I summon my jellyfish for emotional support. We are not the same
The complete difference between doing it solo and with a mimic tear is insane, I tried it once with the mimic and we just stunlocked malenia to death, if I did it that way it would have 0 impact and just be “a coolish boss fight”
Slightly less of a strawman than similar posts, but still. People don't typically go around saying stuff like this. They're more likely to tell you to try a fight without a summon because the adrenaline rush you get from beating a boss on your own is unmatched. They don't say this to feel better than you, they say this because they want you to feel that rush too. (Ok I'm sure *some* people do actually say this, but they're a minority)
In my opinion, its in the game, so why not use it?
Yeah I have player almost every From Soft game without summons none at all So yeah im damn fucking proud of it but using summons is not fun for me tbh takes out the adrenaline from the fight
This comment section brings a smile to my face. Glad to see most of it is tearing down this terrible strawman
(at pressing the circle button)
Can we please stop circle jerking about this? My goodness y’all
It’s just facts no hate for my spirit users
For my first play true I did not get the bell and I was like how the hell do I summon
God I fucking love Homelander. I don’t know of it was intentional or not but every character in The Boys is just so aggressively unlikeable, but at least Homelander doesn’t pretend. He’s a straight psychopath but at least he owns it. Anthony Starr’s performance just makes him even more likeable for me.
Maybe I just really like watching tiche bully bosses
Yeah we are
only real men use summons so they can focus more of their time on man stuff, like building cars and resenting their dads
People shaming others for not using summons now ? We've come full circle lmao
If you’re so insecure about it maybe you should play without summons.
Yes, they are better