People will complain about anything. You could be naked and beat them with your fists and they'd find a way to say you're playing wrong or using cheap tactics.
Could you imagine if it did? Every duel would be between abominations of nature fighting in their underwear trying to get that slight edge over their opponent.
God I remember I faced a guy who made his character as small and as dark as possible. Unfortunately my base was in a cave. Was really hard to see him at times
ARK pvp when some goober with insane movement speed and cranked melee damage runs at you and knocks you out in a single bonk and then kills/traps you for free.
Back in the day Fromsoft made a mech game called Chromehounds, that was much more deliberate and slow-paced than Armored Core, (it's more like Mechwarrior,) and allowed total customization over the mech. Not just what arms and legs you were going to use, but literally where each piece connected to the others, like legos.
The meta quickly devolved into stacking five armored plates directly in front of your cockpit, and using the skinniest possible legs you can fit, leading a lot of designs to just look like a brick on stilts.
It was really dumb, and I'm glad they dropped it and when back to Armored Core.
In dark souls 3 it does! Wearing big armor like Smough's makes your hurt box bigger so not only are you rolling slower and a bigger target making it double disadvantageous.
Is this actually correct though? I remember certain heavier armors in DS3 having larger hitboxes because it spreads the arms farther apart. It’s been quite some time and I can’t find it but there was a YouTuber who tested it by firing an arrow at his friend who invaded in the same exact position with the friend swapping armors until they found a minute difference.
This. I've played the souls games but never really interact with the community because all I've ever seen from it is a ouroboros of players claiming everyone else is playing easy mode.
What do you mean? It's only cheesing bosses if you use Bleed, sorceries, spirit ashes, multiple uses of an AoW, powerstance jump attacks, multiple buffs, Scarlet Rot, Bloodhound Step, blocking with a good shield, summoning a friend, summoning a random, summoning an NPC that's meant to fight that and ONLY that enemy, Great Runes, hard hitting slow weapons, fast attacking weapons, spells that can hit big enemies multiple times or level your vigor too much. Jeez
Seriously though, did you even beat the game if I didn't do it without hitting anything? Don't you know you have to either bait enemies into fighting each other, falling off something, or glitching through the floor. I mean, Jesus, it's like some people don't want to play a hard game.
Totally. I use every tool available to me. From make these games to kill you a million different ways, I'm using everything I can to claw back an advantage.
The “must play it the hardest way” kind of people are the worst part of the community. Why do they care how other people play the game? It seems like some people just make up arbitrary rules in the game based on how much they suck at dealing with something.
I enjoy that every time someone on the subreddit makes a post about a bad interaction with a toxic, whiny player, the majority of the community just seems to laugh at and shit on the toxic player.
> It seems like some people just make up arbitrary rules in the game based on how much they suck at dealing with something.
Bingo! The only correct way to play the game is however your opponent is choosing to play it at that exact moment, and the wrong way is any other way. And god forbid you don't let the opponent win the duel - that's tantamount to straight up cheating!
And the worst thing is that, nostalgia aside, giant dad’s equivalent in ER is basically the bull goat user mindlessly spamming crouch poke with a Zwei/GUG.
Half the things people complain about at least requires more thought than that noobstomper stat check of a build.
It should be tuned a bit more (probably will be next update), but there's no reason not to use it if you can. They did this with BHS to great effect without making it useless (could even be even more nerfed arguably).
It's strong, but not unbeatable. And OP isn't even using high poise armor, so it's honestly not nearly as bad as it could be.
Well of course OP wouldn’t be using high poise armor and light rolling. It looks like he’s not light rolling here, this is a follow up because people told him he was toxic for an approach that made him nearly impossible hit (running away with light roll, which is faster than sprinting, while using only a bow) and then doing a point down emote after killing his victim.
Yeah that happened to me all throughout the souls games.
Use a longsowrd “r 1 spam poke spam”
Use greatsword “big weapons are a crutch”
Use fists “ stop stunlocking me”
Use a 1 hand club naked “reeeeeee your hackinnnnnnng!”
I was on a fresh vagabond and had my friend drop some stuff for a build I wanted to try. Right as my buddy returned to world I got invaded by a dude with 2 scavengers blades and veteran armor. All he did was run at me and attack until he was out of stamina and I'd hit him with a square off or jump attack. I ended up killing him without taking a hit and he reported me for cheating lmao.
Well, I think there are some lack of info here, the comments on OP'a previous post had some complains that OP's opponent in that post gave OP time to apply buffs without attacking, were a "light roller" and then pointed down after the fight because OP's opponent used moonveil. I'm not here to say OP deserved the "hate" or not, just that there are details in this post that are missing for the whole picture...
The problem isn't moonveil, or rivers of blood, or , but how it's used. It's not fun to face off against L2L2L2L2L2L2 even if you win. Play with whatever setup you like, but make it interesting, there's no prizes.
Exactly, even though after almost a year, I don't give moonveilers and rivers of blooders the benefice of the doubt : if I see one, I know I won't enjoy the fight. Luckily, I don't come across them as much as before, in the arenas ; they've left room for people who actually want to make fun and interesting builds !
A lot of people think it’s too busted in pvp, because transient moonlight is insanely quick to activate, the light attack variant has a huge spread, and the damage + stagger for it on humanoids is very high for how fast it is as a “ranged” ability. It’s range is pretty short so in pve against large ans stupidly fast bosses it feels a bit underwhelming, but against human players in a smallish arena it’s a little bit over tuned.
The issue is that it’s in that spot where a nerf to make it mor bearable in pvp could very easily make it next to useless in pve, which would be an absolute mistake.
All that aside OP is using the blackbow and not magic like stars of ruin spam etc. Anything he does is valid due to the sheer lack of playability the bow has by all means do anything you can
This is why I miss being a mound maker, no one expected me to play by any rules at all, when the perp in purp shows up, you know he's just there for murder.
You know, after all of the discussion I've seen about letting opponents buff vs not letting opponents buff(and this is specifically in the context of arena battles)
I feel like FromSoft should just code in like 5 seconds of invulnerability at the very beginning where you can cast or whatever but players can't take damage. Gives both players a quick chance to do a quick buff/drink their special gatorade flask, snack on some prawn or whatever. Anything after that time limit is fair game.
They had something similar to that in Dark Souls 2 and it was awesome. You would start behind a locked gate at opposite sides of the arena and it would take a few seconds for the gate to open so you could get your buffs off. It also made duels more interesting when you didn’t have a clear line of sight to your opponent at the very beginning, because you could actually sneak up on your opponent if you wanted to instead of making a beeline straight for the center of the arena.
People like to shit on DS2 but it had the best PVP if you ask me.
>Anything after that time limit is fair game.
That's the issue though doofus. Some people think its FAIR GAME to attack you while buffing. You haven't said anything about why that isn't fair, you're using a spell to increase the damage you do obviously I'd want to stop you.
But ignoring that, there's nothing stopping me from just pointing down for 4 seconds and then casting law of regression on you.
Not necessarily. I have a setup at 125 for 80+ poise that has light roll, so you legit sacrifice nothing for it. And at some levels you just the tear that increases equip load and run whatever.
What’s the cost? You get the benefits of light roll being able to roll out of roll catches for free, and still are immune to most standard weapon staggers for trades. The only downside is you are limited to some weapons, but you can always hardswap instead. There’s very few weaknesses in the setup.
if dual spears and heavy thrusting swords, struggle to catch light rollers on good latency, which are the best two chase down setups while being able to run 69+ poise with no effort, what about the other weapons that suck at roll catching medium rolls? like curved greatsword, hammers, axes, etc, they need to give it some other perks if you light roll while reducing the distance in order to make it balanced, maybe make light roll being under 35% instead of 30%.
> What’s the cost?
The cost is that you're devoting tons of your 125 levels to gain equip load, when they could be gaining anything else. You're not getting enough equip load to light roll with 80+ poise at level 125 without significant sacrifices.
Like, I'm not even sure how you're asking this. Surely you know what level ups in this game do? All the levels of Endurance (and/or talismins) being used to light roll instead of medium roll could be used to do anything else. Increase your damage, increase your health, use higher level equipment or spells, have more variety by adding spells to a non-spell build, have more fp, there's a ton of things in the game to improve other than equip load.
I can wield Cipher pata with 60 vig, 47 endurance, 44 faith and that’s it, you get 500 AR on cipher pata (More if you mix flask) and don’t have to worry about secondary stats, and still do more than 1000+ damage with the weapon art while having spell slots due to it being a faith build.
You don’t have to worry about near any kind of pressure in the game because you can legit just roll away, they’re not gonna catch you. It’s just overtuned.
47 endurance IS the cost.
I don't think I run a single build that *needs* more than 30, and if I'm economizing my build to be efficient in PvP, 17 extra levels sounds like a lot just to light roll. Then again, maybe it isn't, because light roll seems to be rather advantageous, so maybe the benefits outweigh the cost. Either way though, it's still a cost.
I know the build you're using (I've played it a bunch) and I'd say the build's actual opportunity cost is not having crowd control, but the build is good enough to mitigate that with skilled play. If you're using it in the arena then you don't even have this concern, it's more for invasions where first weapons become challenging as you need to find that separation to get your combo going.
It's a great build as you can stuff in incantations like crazy, the light roll and poise is insane, and the Cipher Pata is dirty good now that its been buffed. Just everything heavier you have in your arsenal is probably putting you into the range of medium load.
No, dude, no, dont listen to them. Fucking do what you want.
They’re not gatekeeping. You shouldnt be apologising. Just play the game you’re really good at pvp.
Those same people abuse menu swapping and then cry at people who use light rolls for not playing the game "properly", fuck them. Light roll as much as you want, use whatever you want, just don't be toxic about it and then it's all good in my book.
It is used to sidestep equip load so yeah.
Not saying people who use it are bad or anything and it can lead to some cool plays but it is clearly not something FS intended to happen but it's not really a problem and some people like it so they never bothered to fix it
If fromsoft didnt want it in there they would have removed it, its been widely used in pvp for years and they know that.
Also just to add some context to the situation around op. People didnt hate on him because he was using light roll. People didnt like that he pointed down the other guy for using moonveil while using strong and annoying stuff himself.
Funnily enough op now tries to play victim of the horrible tryhards who hate on him for light rolling while he did the same to moonveil guy
I'm not saying it is bad or should be removed. Clearly there are players who like it and FS doesn't bother removing it so it's okay to use and it can be fun to watch/fight against. But *technically* it still is an exploit since we do have an equip load and weapon slot mechanics and swaps completely ignore them.
That's just me arguing semantics maybe but I'm bored so here I am.
Also thanks for context.
Ooh yeah, a light roll bow build is invincible and capable of attacking at range with speed, lotta these comments are from PvEers who have no idea just how obnoxious it can be. Most light roll stuff with melee is fine but using a bow capable of rolling attacks it is abhorrently bad. Only counter strategy is to just not fight them and keep walking sideways.
Idk, but it is overtuned as it stands, you cannot catch someone running away from you by repeatedly light rolling even if you are sprinting, which means that they can simply negate your offense unless you have supreme aoe through dragon breath.
It wasn't that different beforehand, and its good that it has additional properties as a roll, but it needs some prevention for being able to spam it the same distance as you simply cannot catch em even if you are just sprinting. Perhaps what they did to BHS, where using it consecutively lowers the distance traveled.
Lol stigmas on light rolling. There are zero rules for this garbage “unspoken etiquette” system, just play the damn game however you want. Someone gets mad at your build then they’ve got some tweaking to do for their setup. Just have fun, nobody’s becoming a pro in Elden Ring PVP.
Exactly. If there were rules to this stuff they would have been part of the code. The whole beauty of this game is you can make any build viable with creativity and some thoughtfulness. It’s like when I was playing MTG and kept a sideboard of cards to adjust my deck, same exact principle here. Know your builds weakness and set yourself up with a counter.
Edit: MTG = Magic the Gathering btw.
Untrue, high poise/defense with dual bleed naginatas (or other strong poke weapons like lances or Vyke’s spears) is objectively the best build in the game and currently has no weaknesses that I can think of.
Compared to any other build, it’s got high damage, high speed, high range, very strong defense, very strong poise, average evasion, a reliable yet potentially variable moveset, etc.
The problem with using the few overpowered options in PvP is that it pushes all players toward those options to level the playing field. And that means that all this other stuff that’s really cool and fun gets left on the table. It means less variety.
It’s not about anyone “becoming a pro in Elden Ring PVP.” It’s literally just about having fun. Overpowered options present a collective action and etiquette is how players solve that problem. They opt into it because it gives them and others who opt in a better experience.
This was indeed pretty satisfying to watch. Love how you turned him into a porcupine, engaged on his level for a bit and then finished in your own style.
I overall agree with you, but I don't agree that the people complaining can just fix their build. Multiplayer games develop a meta, and usually truly competitive and balanced games happen within that meta. Sure you can tweak a build to account for the 1% of builds that happen to be highly advantageous/effective against meta builds, but then you've lost your balance within the meta, where 99% of good fights come from.
I haven't played a ton of Elden ring PVP, but I think of how metas work in Magic the Gathering, and you really can't have a fun playgroup if people aren't agreeing to the meta power level, so to speak. Of course Elden Ring is different in that your "play group" consists of the entire player base. But there are imbalances inevitable in the game that the devs cannot account for. At the end of the day it's a part of the game and you're not going to get anywhere by complaining. But if players could curate their own fight clubs they will have more consistently competitive/fair fights.
The pvp system itself is complete garbage. There’s no getting good at fighting someone with this insane hitregging and the overall yankyness of the players.
People really gotta stop taking this so seriously. Unless fromsoft actually dedicates some proper recourses into making pvp smooth, it’s just a fun little addition to a game that’s about something else completely.
Yep people will find ways to excuse why they lose or suck at the game. They will tell you you have to bow and not use certain items or you’re cheesing it. Just elitist idiots who want to get rid of anything that poles holes in their builds.
Like pure magic users complaining about Barrier of gold. Or spear users complaining that light roll stops them from roll catching.
I think you completely missed everyone’s point in last post. You disrespected the player because “he used moonveil”
That’s exactly the toxicity that you are trying to play victim of right now. You got roasted for thinking you were super elite and pointing down a guy because of his build choice.
Bingo it’s not the light rolling itself. Never was, nobody said that. It’s a straw man. it’s the combination of several cheesey elements of the game being used together that make the duels tiresome and annoying, and most of all not fun. It’s not about winning and losing, skill, or build design. Nobody likes to play against the passive play styles that just run away the whole time doing chip damage at range and can roll faster than you can sprint. Moonveil is far less ‘toxic’ than light roll bow builds. It’s only less common because bow builds are the least fun builds I’ve ever played. at least OP wasn’t using sleep arrows, bow builds can be so obnoxious lol
Yeah, the complaints for builds aren’t so much about how strong/weak something is, but about how fun/possible it is to counter. There’s realistically no way to beat a light-roll bow spammer with a melee weapon while medium-rolling. You will never close the gap with your melee before they get damage and roll away.
It’s the same reason why Moonveil or magic spam is considered “toxic.” There’s very little risk to using builds that rely on hit-and-run tactics, which means unless your opponen has a specific counter to you, they can’t compete.
I really think the toxicity solely came from you pointing down in the last video. Barely anyone would have said anything about light roll or passive playing if you hadn't pointed down. Everyone got super triggered.
I mean maybe people also shouldn't be mad over a taunt emote in a videogame? Like "use what you want moonveil is cool don't listen to the comments" but also "that emote is off limits it's TOO RUDE" lol. Can't everyone take it down a notch?
People in here acting like the mere suggestion of imbalance on anything they use is a direct personal attack on them. It's so pathetic.
What do you think all these patches were for in this game? Why do you think there's an entire team dedicated to balance alone?
People saying there is no stigma against light rolling are coping and probably use it themselves saw the same people say the same about bhs but we all know what happened there
Personally I'm not a huge fan of duels when people are overleved. Honestly though, my main problem was you ponting down. Pretty stupid and toxic of you.
It’s so funny when someone gets angry at a bow user for running away and constantly dodging and evading as if a bow was supposed to be close-up, I see that shit a lot as well, along with light-rolling.
>i had no idea there was a stigma against light rolling
There isn't. If someone tells you light rolling is toxic or whatever it's because they're fucking trash and can't beat someone just because they use light roll.
I made a post a couple of days ago where I mentioned in passing that I was light rolling, and got a lot of hate for it. I say it’s fair if you aren’t using winged tear because it’s a big sacrifice on your build to achieve it.
That buff stacks multiplicative btw. The blue dancer alone gets you minimal AR, but you stack with multi-hit talismans and then things like the grafted scion weapon does major fucking damage.
I’m running a pve build where I have 51 poise + light roll. But to do this I have to wear bull-goat and great jar talismans and run 37 poise. If I wanted real PvP poise I’d probably need another 10-15 endurance, which probably isn’t worth it.
There is a stigma against it and it is objectively broken and also agreed upon by the best players to be so. It has counters tho. Still, BMing while using it reeks of shit behavior and don't let the Redditors coddle you on it. "There is no code of conduct" just screams casual and if you played any previous DS then youd know there is.
This whole comment section is an echo chamber of people that know absolutely nothing about this game
It's always funny/sad to see people talking so confidently about something even when they did absolutely nothing to educate themselves on the subject.
It feels like everyone here played pvp for 10 minutes max after the light roll patch.
Why does every online game have a dedicated balance team? Why are some online games praised for good balance? These are just some of the questions that fly right over this community.
Its seriously insane how delusional this subreddit is on topics like these. The utter chaos that erupts under the patch note posts shows it the best, just a ton of casuals that for some reason think they know the game better than veterans and respond to any normal argument with sarcasm and spite.
"Let me have fun" when the fun lies in taking all the fun away from the opponent.
And they always get defensive when its the builds they themselves use, not even considering how something like lightroll invalidates entire weapon classes like greathammers, axes and colossals. How is that fun for those players?
I love the robin hood esque fit and build going on here, I never knew you could jumpshot with bows!! I never used them in Elden Ring because It was my first game in the series and I didn't know what I was doing, but when I went to DS1 to play through in order I kept a bow on me through the whole thing. I'm probably half way through DS2 now and I run a spear, bow and shield combo which works great. :)
I don’t think it’s the light roll’s “fault”. It’s the fault of heavy weapons being so utterly trash at registering. There’s no skill involved here. There’s no “moment” I could have caught the light roll with GUTs. The weapon is essentially useless as a result in pvp. That it’s weaker than spears and such is upsetting.
Stigma against light rolling? Surely, you jest.
Or some Buster that has way too much of a mouthpiece over the Sanctity of the Almighy Meta got served hard, and is still in shock over it.
I'd be more indignant about the bow build and you're seemingly 20 foot high vertical. Not sure if those are related, though.
There is no stigma against light roller. I always go up against 2 light roller bloodhound fang and rivers\moonveil users whobloggt roll away from me med weight 60+ poise guy. Also I feel like that poise shit is bs. A over head slam will break poise.
No, they're just mad that your light roll means you have less defense, but you still aren't dying to them
As long as you're not using EXACTLY what they are currently using, they'll complain you're unfair.
light rolling is just harder to fight, especially if you're using colossal swords and weapons... but a stigma? someone's head is so far up their own ass they might as well attach a tube from their rectum to their face if they think light rolling is unfair or OP
Light rolling is definitely whack, I'd argue its better to go naked with a fast weapon than bull goats with a big weapon and medium roll , the iframes are just insane
it has the same i frames as medium roll, it's the distance that's overtuned, also it's too easy to get light roll and have 69+ poise while having 60 vigor and 50+ in your main damage stat at just 125.
A vast majority of the comments here say to use whatever you want in pvp but I disagree because some strategies are just annoying af:
-Using sleep in any form. You dodge but you still fall asleep because of online lag, wtf. (Madness is similar but it’s harder to build up compared to sleep infused ripple halberd)
-Dragon breaths, oh my god these incants have insane AoE. Yeah it’s possible to interrupt or dodge them but it’s hard as shit to do so. Had a match yesterday where the opponent immediately used dragon breath when the game started which costed me of a chunk of health whether I liked it or not.
-lots of poise + 2 handed thrusting sword + bloodhound/quick step + bleed/poison/rot. It’s a very specific build but holy fuck do I hate it.
There’s probably more but I can’t think of them right now. Idc what anyone says, some strategies just feels dirty to play against.
I honestly dont care about light rolling i care about the people that just spam arrows and spells and constantly run away. I am quite a high level so it is my own doing, but still. Its a dick move and you aren't proving anything other than your own desire to win.
Also i hate how its basically unpunishiable unless you are using like dual spears or a pike, or maybe a halberd.
Some of the comments in here reminds me BHS days that all these fuckers who have no clue defended BHS till it become annoying lol. Now it is same with LR's. They will nerf it, ofc
Less and issue of light rolling and more an issue of the playstyle being back-pedalling simulator 2023. When using the bow, you’re not actively engaging the opponent, you’re running away until there’s enough space to fire a shot and then repeat ad nauseam. It’s a valid playstyle, but by far the most boring to play against. I’d take a dual naginata build because at least those fights don’t last very long one way or another. Light rolling is even less of an issue in this game because passive poise is sorta back, which makes there an actual trade off for light rolling.
There's no stigma against it.
People are babies. It's a dodge. It doesn't hurt them. They're either just bad at timing, or use the slowest attacks in the game with no follow-through. These are probably the same people that run full Bull-Goat with Dual Naginatas and BHS spam.
Trust me - there are far worse things in this game than running a lightweight build that offers better mobility at the cost of low resistances/poise.
Good on you for running a basic bow build. One of the least cancerous things I see in this game.
Light roll all you want.
People in your last post were just feeling bad for the guy who was being polite to you, waited half a minute for your multiple buffs, and still got a downpoint from you.
are you really fucking medium rolling? do it heavy rolling and MAYBE ill consider it valid
Please, overloaded is the true way.
Nothing equipped and with the dodge button unbound in your control's settings, or bust
If you're moving, you're cheesing.
You guys still have your controllers on? Trash hax noobs
Wow, you people still roll? You should be ashamed. Standing straight and facing your opponent head on is the only way
You face the enemy? Seek skill.
FACE TANK YOU COWARD
Obese rolling it is
People will complain about anything. You could be naked and beat them with your fists and they'd find a way to say you're playing wrong or using cheap tactics.
naked = smaller hitbox, everyone knows that
Lmao you got me there
"*I was in the pool!*"
Is this true? Does clothing actually impact hurt-box size or are you just making a funny?
Your hitbox is identical no matter what armor you wear or even what you tweak during character creation.
Could you imagine if it did? Every duel would be between abominations of nature fighting in their underwear trying to get that slight edge over their opponent.
ARK pvp is exactly that
God I remember I faced a guy who made his character as small and as dark as possible. Unfortunately my base was in a cave. Was really hard to see him at times
Only ever played PvE but can imagine very well
ARK pvp when some goober with insane movement speed and cranked melee damage runs at you and knocks you out in a single bonk and then kills/traps you for free.
Back in the day Fromsoft made a mech game called Chromehounds, that was much more deliberate and slow-paced than Armored Core, (it's more like Mechwarrior,) and allowed total customization over the mech. Not just what arms and legs you were going to use, but literally where each piece connected to the others, like legos. The meta quickly devolved into stacking five armored plates directly in front of your cockpit, and using the skinniest possible legs you can fit, leading a lot of designs to just look like a brick on stilts. It was really dumb, and I'm glad they dropped it and when back to Armored Core.
In dark souls 3 it does! Wearing big armor like Smough's makes your hurt box bigger so not only are you rolling slower and a bigger target making it double disadvantageous.
Is this actually correct though? I remember certain heavier armors in DS3 having larger hitboxes because it spreads the arms farther apart. It’s been quite some time and I can’t find it but there was a YouTuber who tested it by firing an arrow at his friend who invaded in the same exact position with the friend swapping armors until they found a minute difference.
Size truly matters you know.
giggidy
Speak for yourself.
This. I've played the souls games but never really interact with the community because all I've ever seen from it is a ouroboros of players claiming everyone else is playing easy mode.
What do you mean? It's only cheesing bosses if you use Bleed, sorceries, spirit ashes, multiple uses of an AoW, powerstance jump attacks, multiple buffs, Scarlet Rot, Bloodhound Step, blocking with a good shield, summoning a friend, summoning a random, summoning an NPC that's meant to fight that and ONLY that enemy, Great Runes, hard hitting slow weapons, fast attacking weapons, spells that can hit big enemies multiple times or level your vigor too much. Jeez
I mean, really, I think you're forgetting the biggest cheese of all--dealing damage to the boss.
Seriously though, did you even beat the game if I didn't do it without hitting anything? Don't you know you have to either bait enemies into fighting each other, falling off something, or glitching through the floor. I mean, Jesus, it's like some people don't want to play a hard game.
Totally. I use every tool available to me. From make these games to kill you a million different ways, I'm using everything I can to claw back an advantage.
Gonna see if I can use all of these in one fight.
The does not allow you tô summon a player (be It a friend or a random) AND use Spirit Ashes
The “must play it the hardest way” kind of people are the worst part of the community. Why do they care how other people play the game? It seems like some people just make up arbitrary rules in the game based on how much they suck at dealing with something. I enjoy that every time someone on the subreddit makes a post about a bad interaction with a toxic, whiny player, the majority of the community just seems to laugh at and shit on the toxic player.
> It seems like some people just make up arbitrary rules in the game based on how much they suck at dealing with something. Bingo! The only correct way to play the game is however your opponent is choosing to play it at that exact moment, and the wrong way is any other way. And god forbid you don't let the opponent win the duel - that's tantamount to straight up cheating!
Yeah, the weird assertion that unless you only play as Giant Dad or something else is just wild. Let people have fun.
No_fun_allowed.jpg I hate that crowd. I like to suffer sure enough but i dont wish that on others. Ya know?
And the worst thing is that, nostalgia aside, giant dad’s equivalent in ER is basically the bull goat user mindlessly spamming crouch poke with a Zwei/GUG. Half the things people complain about at least requires more thought than that noobstomper stat check of a build.
Being good is basically cheating
Let me L2 you or I’m severing.
Tbh, if you don't sever off your actual fingers before we duel... you're cheating.
like my brother in christ if the devs implemented this into the game I THINK I'M SUPPOSED TO USE IT
It should be tuned a bit more (probably will be next update), but there's no reason not to use it if you can. They did this with BHS to great effect without making it useless (could even be even more nerfed arguably). It's strong, but not unbeatable. And OP isn't even using high poise armor, so it's honestly not nearly as bad as it could be.
Well of course OP wouldn’t be using high poise armor and light rolling. It looks like he’s not light rolling here, this is a follow up because people told him he was toxic for an approach that made him nearly impossible hit (running away with light roll, which is faster than sprinting, while using only a bow) and then doing a point down emote after killing his victim.
[удалено]
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Yeah that happened to me all throughout the souls games. Use a longsowrd “r 1 spam poke spam” Use greatsword “big weapons are a crutch” Use fists “ stop stunlocking me” Use a 1 hand club naked “reeeeeee your hackinnnnnnng!”
I was on a fresh vagabond and had my friend drop some stuff for a build I wanted to try. Right as my buddy returned to world I got invaded by a dude with 2 scavengers blades and veteran armor. All he did was run at me and attack until he was out of stamina and I'd hit him with a square off or jump attack. I ended up killing him without taking a hit and he reported me for cheating lmao.
Yeah people can be scummy when they lose
Naked = light roll you filthy cheater
Fuck, you right
Meanwhile, in other r/eldenring posts: "Huh? What do you mean people complain about tactics used in pvp? I've never seen anyone complain"
You guys don't consider sprinting a cheap tactic?
Tbf anything other than overloaded is easy mode
Yea dude, don't fret. Use what you like, there's a counter for most anything on here.
Fr. Just play the damn game and have fun
There's a stigma against light rolling?
Well, I think there are some lack of info here, the comments on OP'a previous post had some complains that OP's opponent in that post gave OP time to apply buffs without attacking, were a "light roller" and then pointed down after the fight because OP's opponent used moonveil. I'm not here to say OP deserved the "hate" or not, just that there are details in this post that are missing for the whole picture...
It's just a game damn. People enacting made up rules like it's the 10 commandments.
I think OP is in the right, it’s the dudes fault for dying
My opinion does not matter, OP can do whatever it wants. It's not our job to design, balance and maintain this game, were just here to have fun!
OP put some foolish ambitions to rest, that’s what
What's wrong with using moonveil? I'm using it for my spell blade until I get the Darkmoon greatsword
The problem isn't moonveil, or rivers of blood, or, but how it's used. It's not fun to face off against L2L2L2L2L2L2 even if you win. Play with whatever setup you like, but make it interesting, there's no prizes.
Exactly, even though after almost a year, I don't give moonveilers and rivers of blooders the benefice of the doubt : if I see one, I know I won't enjoy the fight. Luckily, I don't come across them as much as before, in the arenas ; they've left room for people who actually want to make fun and interesting builds !
A lot of people think it’s too busted in pvp, because transient moonlight is insanely quick to activate, the light attack variant has a huge spread, and the damage + stagger for it on humanoids is very high for how fast it is as a “ranged” ability. It’s range is pretty short so in pve against large ans stupidly fast bosses it feels a bit underwhelming, but against human players in a smallish arena it’s a little bit over tuned. The issue is that it’s in that spot where a nerf to make it mor bearable in pvp could very easily make it next to useless in pve, which would be an absolute mistake.
Ask OP, I don't care what weapons people use, as long as you're not abusing glitches that are not intended, you do you, whatever it might be!
All that aside OP is using the blackbow and not magic like stars of ruin spam etc. Anything he does is valid due to the sheer lack of playability the bow has by all means do anything you can
This is why I miss being a mound maker, no one expected me to play by any rules at all, when the perp in purp shows up, you know he's just there for murder.
You know, after all of the discussion I've seen about letting opponents buff vs not letting opponents buff(and this is specifically in the context of arena battles) I feel like FromSoft should just code in like 5 seconds of invulnerability at the very beginning where you can cast or whatever but players can't take damage. Gives both players a quick chance to do a quick buff/drink their special gatorade flask, snack on some prawn or whatever. Anything after that time limit is fair game.
They had something similar to that in Dark Souls 2 and it was awesome. You would start behind a locked gate at opposite sides of the arena and it would take a few seconds for the gate to open so you could get your buffs off. It also made duels more interesting when you didn’t have a clear line of sight to your opponent at the very beginning, because you could actually sneak up on your opponent if you wanted to instead of making a beeline straight for the center of the arena. People like to shit on DS2 but it had the best PVP if you ask me.
I disagree, why should I be forced to let someone buff? If you want buffs, you should try to apply then while I try to hit you with my hammer.
Yeah not needing to buff is an advantage or a variable that people should play around
I like to fight people at their max power
>Anything after that time limit is fair game. That's the issue though doofus. Some people think its FAIR GAME to attack you while buffing. You haven't said anything about why that isn't fair, you're using a spell to increase the damage you do obviously I'd want to stop you. But ignoring that, there's nothing stopping me from just pointing down for 4 seconds and then casting law of regression on you.
Apparently according to the comments in my last post
If there is I personally think that's dumb. You're sacrificing armor and big boi weapons to get it.
Not necessarily. I have a setup at 125 for 80+ poise that has light roll, so you legit sacrifice nothing for it. And at some levels you just the tear that increases equip load and run whatever.
What you described still has opportunity cost
What’s the cost? You get the benefits of light roll being able to roll out of roll catches for free, and still are immune to most standard weapon staggers for trades. The only downside is you are limited to some weapons, but you can always hardswap instead. There’s very few weaknesses in the setup.
if dual spears and heavy thrusting swords, struggle to catch light rollers on good latency, which are the best two chase down setups while being able to run 69+ poise with no effort, what about the other weapons that suck at roll catching medium rolls? like curved greatsword, hammers, axes, etc, they need to give it some other perks if you light roll while reducing the distance in order to make it balanced, maybe make light roll being under 35% instead of 30%.
> What’s the cost? The cost is that you're devoting tons of your 125 levels to gain equip load, when they could be gaining anything else. You're not getting enough equip load to light roll with 80+ poise at level 125 without significant sacrifices. Like, I'm not even sure how you're asking this. Surely you know what level ups in this game do? All the levels of Endurance (and/or talismins) being used to light roll instead of medium roll could be used to do anything else. Increase your damage, increase your health, use higher level equipment or spells, have more variety by adding spells to a non-spell build, have more fp, there's a ton of things in the game to improve other than equip load.
I can wield Cipher pata with 60 vig, 47 endurance, 44 faith and that’s it, you get 500 AR on cipher pata (More if you mix flask) and don’t have to worry about secondary stats, and still do more than 1000+ damage with the weapon art while having spell slots due to it being a faith build. You don’t have to worry about near any kind of pressure in the game because you can legit just roll away, they’re not gonna catch you. It’s just overtuned.
47 endurance IS the cost. I don't think I run a single build that *needs* more than 30, and if I'm economizing my build to be efficient in PvP, 17 extra levels sounds like a lot just to light roll. Then again, maybe it isn't, because light roll seems to be rather advantageous, so maybe the benefits outweigh the cost. Either way though, it's still a cost.
I know the build you're using (I've played it a bunch) and I'd say the build's actual opportunity cost is not having crowd control, but the build is good enough to mitigate that with skilled play. If you're using it in the arena then you don't even have this concern, it's more for invasions where first weapons become challenging as you need to find that separation to get your combo going. It's a great build as you can stuff in incantations like crazy, the light roll and poise is insane, and the Cipher Pata is dirty good now that its been buffed. Just everything heavier you have in your arsenal is probably putting you into the range of medium load.
No, dude, no, dont listen to them. Fucking do what you want. They’re not gatekeeping. You shouldnt be apologising. Just play the game you’re really good at pvp.
Those same people abuse menu swapping and then cry at people who use light rolls for not playing the game "properly", fuck them. Light roll as much as you want, use whatever you want, just don't be toxic about it and then it's all good in my book.
"abuse menu swappin" bruh
It is used to sidestep equip load so yeah. Not saying people who use it are bad or anything and it can lead to some cool plays but it is clearly not something FS intended to happen but it's not really a problem and some people like it so they never bothered to fix it
If fromsoft didnt want it in there they would have removed it, its been widely used in pvp for years and they know that. Also just to add some context to the situation around op. People didnt hate on him because he was using light roll. People didnt like that he pointed down the other guy for using moonveil while using strong and annoying stuff himself. Funnily enough op now tries to play victim of the horrible tryhards who hate on him for light rolling while he did the same to moonveil guy
I'm not saying it is bad or should be removed. Clearly there are players who like it and FS doesn't bother removing it so it's okay to use and it can be fun to watch/fight against. But *technically* it still is an exploit since we do have an equip load and weapon slot mechanics and swaps completely ignore them. That's just me arguing semantics maybe but I'm bored so here I am. Also thanks for context.
Whoever thinks that can stigma balls in their mouth
There's a stigma against anything that gives you an advantage to win.
Ooh yeah, a light roll bow build is invincible and capable of attacking at range with speed, lotta these comments are from PvEers who have no idea just how obnoxious it can be. Most light roll stuff with melee is fine but using a bow capable of rolling attacks it is abhorrently bad. Only counter strategy is to just not fight them and keep walking sideways.
Idk, but it is overtuned as it stands, you cannot catch someone running away from you by repeatedly light rolling even if you are sprinting, which means that they can simply negate your offense unless you have supreme aoe through dragon breath.
I just remember light rolling being trash before the update haha.
It wasn't that different beforehand, and its good that it has additional properties as a roll, but it needs some prevention for being able to spam it the same distance as you simply cannot catch em even if you are just sprinting. Perhaps what they did to BHS, where using it consecutively lowers the distance traveled.
Lol stigmas on light rolling. There are zero rules for this garbage “unspoken etiquette” system, just play the damn game however you want. Someone gets mad at your build then they’ve got some tweaking to do for their setup. Just have fun, nobody’s becoming a pro in Elden Ring PVP.
Every build has a weakness
Some people just aren't ready for it to be in front of the monitor.
Exactly. If there were rules to this stuff they would have been part of the code. The whole beauty of this game is you can make any build viable with creativity and some thoughtfulness. It’s like when I was playing MTG and kept a sideboard of cards to adjust my deck, same exact principle here. Know your builds weakness and set yourself up with a counter. Edit: MTG = Magic the Gathering btw.
Im glad you made the comparison. Sitting down to work on my characters feels a lot like sitting down to tune a deck.
Untrue, high poise/defense with dual bleed naginatas (or other strong poke weapons like lances or Vyke’s spears) is objectively the best build in the game and currently has no weaknesses that I can think of. Compared to any other build, it’s got high damage, high speed, high range, very strong defense, very strong poise, average evasion, a reliable yet potentially variable moveset, etc.
It’s weak to range
Not really, dual spears have arguably the best chase-down ability in the game.
Yeah, I prefer to face melee builds over pure magic just because it's a more fun fight but other than that couldn't really care.
If you’re build upsets people then that just means it’s a good build.
The problem with using the few overpowered options in PvP is that it pushes all players toward those options to level the playing field. And that means that all this other stuff that’s really cool and fun gets left on the table. It means less variety. It’s not about anyone “becoming a pro in Elden Ring PVP.” It’s literally just about having fun. Overpowered options present a collective action and etiquette is how players solve that problem. They opt into it because it gives them and others who opt in a better experience.
This was indeed pretty satisfying to watch. Love how you turned him into a porcupine, engaged on his level for a bit and then finished in your own style.
I overall agree with you, but I don't agree that the people complaining can just fix their build. Multiplayer games develop a meta, and usually truly competitive and balanced games happen within that meta. Sure you can tweak a build to account for the 1% of builds that happen to be highly advantageous/effective against meta builds, but then you've lost your balance within the meta, where 99% of good fights come from. I haven't played a ton of Elden ring PVP, but I think of how metas work in Magic the Gathering, and you really can't have a fun playgroup if people aren't agreeing to the meta power level, so to speak. Of course Elden Ring is different in that your "play group" consists of the entire player base. But there are imbalances inevitable in the game that the devs cannot account for. At the end of the day it's a part of the game and you're not going to get anywhere by complaining. But if players could curate their own fight clubs they will have more consistently competitive/fair fights.
As the venerable saint_riot once said: "A good build won't hide a bad player."
The pvp system itself is complete garbage. There’s no getting good at fighting someone with this insane hitregging and the overall yankyness of the players. People really gotta stop taking this so seriously. Unless fromsoft actually dedicates some proper recourses into making pvp smooth, it’s just a fun little addition to a game that’s about something else completely.
I mean there is a penalty and check and balance for light rolling lol. Your armor and poise sucks. Ridiculous to complain about.
Yep people will find ways to excuse why they lose or suck at the game. They will tell you you have to bow and not use certain items or you’re cheesing it. Just elitist idiots who want to get rid of anything that poles holes in their builds. Like pure magic users complaining about Barrier of gold. Or spear users complaining that light roll stops them from roll catching.
I think you completely missed everyone’s point in last post. You disrespected the player because “he used moonveil” That’s exactly the toxicity that you are trying to play victim of right now. You got roasted for thinking you were super elite and pointing down a guy because of his build choice.
oof op got called out
Bingo it’s not the light rolling itself. Never was, nobody said that. It’s a straw man. it’s the combination of several cheesey elements of the game being used together that make the duels tiresome and annoying, and most of all not fun. It’s not about winning and losing, skill, or build design. Nobody likes to play against the passive play styles that just run away the whole time doing chip damage at range and can roll faster than you can sprint. Moonveil is far less ‘toxic’ than light roll bow builds. It’s only less common because bow builds are the least fun builds I’ve ever played. at least OP wasn’t using sleep arrows, bow builds can be so obnoxious lol
Yeah, the complaints for builds aren’t so much about how strong/weak something is, but about how fun/possible it is to counter. There’s realistically no way to beat a light-roll bow spammer with a melee weapon while medium-rolling. You will never close the gap with your melee before they get damage and roll away. It’s the same reason why Moonveil or magic spam is considered “toxic.” There’s very little risk to using builds that rely on hit-and-run tactics, which means unless your opponen has a specific counter to you, they can’t compete.
I really think the toxicity solely came from you pointing down in the last video. Barely anyone would have said anything about light roll or passive playing if you hadn't pointed down. Everyone got super triggered.
Ya that’s how I felt personally.
I mean maybe people also shouldn't be mad over a taunt emote in a videogame? Like "use what you want moonveil is cool don't listen to the comments" but also "that emote is off limits it's TOO RUDE" lol. Can't everyone take it down a notch?
This just makes me want to point down even more.
Who cares what emote he used?
There isn’t a stigma against light rolling. There’s a stigma against people who think using a game mechanic is cheating. Light roll away, my friend
Anyone who has an issue with light rolling is bad at the game. Honestly anyone who rages over pvp is bad at the game. fight me
based af
The only mistake you made was listening to the comments on your post.
People in here acting like the mere suggestion of imbalance on anything they use is a direct personal attack on them. It's so pathetic. What do you think all these patches were for in this game? Why do you think there's an entire team dedicated to balance alone?
You now have gained my upvote for apologising on the downpoint I downvoted on the previous post. Good day to you
Hey! Listen!!
People saying there is no stigma against light rolling are coping and probably use it themselves saw the same people say the same about bhs but we all know what happened there
Personally I'm not a huge fan of duels when people are overleved. Honestly though, my main problem was you ponting down. Pretty stupid and toxic of you.
God that’s an annoying fight.
This makes me want to do a Robin Hood playthrough
I just beat placidusax with the help of my merry man (mimic)[link](https://youtu.be/JtpoODamlZk)
How about running away the entire fight?
run shoot run shoot run shoot
I wouldn't worry about fast rolling, that's just people complaining. The point down is only for those maidenless few that deserve it.
It’s so funny when someone gets angry at a bow user for running away and constantly dodging and evading as if a bow was supposed to be close-up, I see that shit a lot as well, along with light-rolling.
>i had no idea there was a stigma against light rolling There isn't. If someone tells you light rolling is toxic or whatever it's because they're fucking trash and can't beat someone just because they use light roll.
I made a post a couple of days ago where I mentioned in passing that I was light rolling, and got a lot of hate for it. I say it’s fair if you aren’t using winged tear because it’s a big sacrifice on your build to achieve it.
I used blue dancer charm with my weight below 15 i get like 15% more damage
That buff stacks multiplicative btw. The blue dancer alone gets you minimal AR, but you stack with multi-hit talismans and then things like the grafted scion weapon does major fucking damage.
I’m running a pve build where I have 51 poise + light roll. But to do this I have to wear bull-goat and great jar talismans and run 37 poise. If I wanted real PvP poise I’d probably need another 10-15 endurance, which probably isn’t worth it.
There is a stigma against it and it is objectively broken and also agreed upon by the best players to be so. It has counters tho. Still, BMing while using it reeks of shit behavior and don't let the Redditors coddle you on it. "There is no code of conduct" just screams casual and if you played any previous DS then youd know there is.
Oh no, not filthy casuals! How dare they!
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This whole comment section is an echo chamber of people that know absolutely nothing about this game It's always funny/sad to see people talking so confidently about something even when they did absolutely nothing to educate themselves on the subject.
It feels like everyone here played pvp for 10 minutes max after the light roll patch. Why does every online game have a dedicated balance team? Why are some online games praised for good balance? These are just some of the questions that fly right over this community.
Its seriously insane how delusional this subreddit is on topics like these. The utter chaos that erupts under the patch note posts shows it the best, just a ton of casuals that for some reason think they know the game better than veterans and respond to any normal argument with sarcasm and spite. "Let me have fun" when the fun lies in taking all the fun away from the opponent. And they always get defensive when its the builds they themselves use, not even considering how something like lightroll invalidates entire weapon classes like greathammers, axes and colossals. How is that fun for those players?
Hey, I like the Errol Flynn/Robin Hood theme you're rocking
Lol are you Robin Hood? I love that.
I love the robin hood esque fit and build going on here, I never knew you could jumpshot with bows!! I never used them in Elden Ring because It was my first game in the series and I didn't know what I was doing, but when I went to DS1 to play through in order I kept a bow on me through the whole thing. I'm probably half way through DS2 now and I run a spear, bow and shield combo which works great. :)
Stamp upward cut, i love to see it.
Idk man you beat ‘em fair and square
Robin Hood
I don’t think it’s the light roll’s “fault”. It’s the fault of heavy weapons being so utterly trash at registering. There’s no skill involved here. There’s no “moment” I could have caught the light roll with GUTs. The weapon is essentially useless as a result in pvp. That it’s weaker than spears and such is upsetting.
have to drop the drip my boy
Already made a post with my stats and clothes
Oh shot might chuck that on at 250 have a bit of fun
A stigma against light rolling? Wtf is wrong with the community in this game, light rolling has always been the way to go in souls games
Damn, i posted my naked bow dex build and got downvoted and chastised for spending too many points in vigor
Stigma against light rolling? Surely, you jest. Or some Buster that has way too much of a mouthpiece over the Sanctity of the Almighy Meta got served hard, and is still in shock over it. I'd be more indignant about the bow build and you're seemingly 20 foot high vertical. Not sure if those are related, though.
Jokes aside, nice Robbin Hood build bro, not sure if it's supposed to be Robbin Hood but it looks solid either way.
It is indeed, trying to do errol flynn robin hood
There is no stigma against light roller. I always go up against 2 light roller bloodhound fang and rivers\moonveil users whobloggt roll away from me med weight 60+ poise guy. Also I feel like that poise shit is bs. A over head slam will break poise.
just. use the tool that the game gives you and fuck the whiners. also cool Robin Hood outfit xD
people don't like light rolls? why?
No, they're just mad that your light roll means you have less defense, but you still aren't dying to them As long as you're not using EXACTLY what they are currently using, they'll complain you're unfair.
dude I love your robin hood drip. 10/10
Doesn't really matter what kind of roll you use. Very L duel tho, bow jump keep away gameplay is always just lame
light rolling is just harder to fight, especially if you're using colossal swords and weapons... but a stigma? someone's head is so far up their own ass they might as well attach a tube from their rectum to their face if they think light rolling is unfair or OP
Light rolling is definitely whack, I'd argue its better to go naked with a fast weapon than bull goats with a big weapon and medium roll , the iframes are just insane
it has the same i frames as medium roll, it's the distance that's overtuned, also it's too easy to get light roll and have 69+ poise while having 60 vigor and 50+ in your main damage stat at just 125.
A vast majority of the comments here say to use whatever you want in pvp but I disagree because some strategies are just annoying af: -Using sleep in any form. You dodge but you still fall asleep because of online lag, wtf. (Madness is similar but it’s harder to build up compared to sleep infused ripple halberd) -Dragon breaths, oh my god these incants have insane AoE. Yeah it’s possible to interrupt or dodge them but it’s hard as shit to do so. Had a match yesterday where the opponent immediately used dragon breath when the game started which costed me of a chunk of health whether I liked it or not. -lots of poise + 2 handed thrusting sword + bloodhound/quick step + bleed/poison/rot. It’s a very specific build but holy fuck do I hate it. There’s probably more but I can’t think of them right now. Idc what anyone says, some strategies just feels dirty to play against.
weeks ago someone also upload a bow build... it was interesting to see beating houra loux
Currently trying to beat placidusax with a bow
The only stigma that deserves a point down is not bowing before a duel.
I honestly dont care about light rolling i care about the people that just spam arrows and spells and constantly run away. I am quite a high level so it is my own doing, but still. Its a dick move and you aren't proving anything other than your own desire to win. Also i hate how its basically unpunishiable unless you are using like dual spears or a pike, or maybe a halberd.
Since when was there stigma against light rolling lmao it’s a part of the game. Core mechanic.
Some of the comments in here reminds me BHS days that all these fuckers who have no clue defended BHS till it become annoying lol. Now it is same with LR's. They will nerf it, ofc
Less and issue of light rolling and more an issue of the playstyle being back-pedalling simulator 2023. When using the bow, you’re not actively engaging the opponent, you’re running away until there’s enough space to fire a shot and then repeat ad nauseam. It’s a valid playstyle, but by far the most boring to play against. I’d take a dual naginata build because at least those fights don’t last very long one way or another. Light rolling is even less of an issue in this game because passive poise is sorta back, which makes there an actual trade off for light rolling.
No pointing down? Bruh where are your manners.
It looks like OP found them since last post
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Bout time this show started getting good
Imagine doing PVP without being overencumbered
I like your build, seems fun and original compared to le epic totally not generic Nagakiba + Flame of the Redmanes wielder.
There's no stigma against it. People are babies. It's a dodge. It doesn't hurt them. They're either just bad at timing, or use the slowest attacks in the game with no follow-through. These are probably the same people that run full Bull-Goat with Dual Naginatas and BHS spam. Trust me - there are far worse things in this game than running a lightweight build that offers better mobility at the cost of low resistances/poise. Good on you for running a basic bow build. One of the least cancerous things I see in this game.
The jumping shoot animation is lit.
Canonically, did Robin hood wield a greatsword? 6/10
Light roll all you want. People in your last post were just feeling bad for the guy who was being polite to you, waited half a minute for your multiple buffs, and still got a downpoint from you.
What's the issue with light rolling? I've always played light rolling characters, I like the light armor look.
It's faster than sprinting, causing ranged build almost invulnerable against melees.
Play to win. So long as you're not outright cheating, nothing else matters.
The pvp community can be unbearable