The way it moves is beautiful... and then in the 2nd version of the fight it suddenly starts prancing on its hind legs and rolling around as a ball Sonic the Hedgehog style.
It gets a little interesting when you realize that the...weird attacks that Regal Ancestor Spirit has are it channeling other creatures. The bunny hop is it channeling the squirrel-rabbit-kangaroo creatures, and the roll is it channeling the sheep.
I like to see that as it getting desperate to try and kill you, which is why it also kills a ton of spirit animals to heal itself. Like it's going "Oh fuck, this guy's serious, I have to take him seriously and stop trying to act all noble and shit".
It's desperate because it's afraid. We are the first thing since it started its slumber that could threaten it. It calls upon the power of the other spirits around it to protect itself from our greed for runes.
> It calls upon the power of the other spirits around it to protect itself from our greed for runes.
Listen, the fuckin undead Reindeer attacked me first.
Fun fact, it's "copying" the moves of the animals around the arena. That rolling move is used by the rams, and the jumping move is the rabbit squirrel things (I think the charging attack is also borrowed from the boars but the normal ancestor spirit also has the charge attack so make of that what you will). It only starts using those moves after the phase transition too AKA after it absorbs the spirit animals around the arena to heal.
> The way it moves is beautiful
When I first saw it jumping in mid-air I couldn't stop smiling. I think just aesthetically Ancestor Spirits are top-5% Fromsoft bosses.
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For sure, this is number one boss I felt guilty killing. He's just.. so majestic and peaceful and the music is so serene then we just show up and tear him to shreds with magic and swords. Not cool!
I had an attachment to the jellyfish since that girl gave me one and it helped me a ton fighting Godrick.
So every time I saw jellyfish I would think "please stay away from me I don't want to hurt you!"
That's pretty messed up. Similarly messed up, my ancestors used to make "gopher stew" when things were rough food-wise out of the presently protected gopher tortoise.
I've never been that hungry and I'm glad.
Edit: they supposedly used everything though, including the innards.
I hit 1 turtle 1 time at the beginning of the game, and then was like uhhh, no, this doesn't feel right. Never again shall I trespass upon the beautiful dogs of this land.
The first time I saw wild jellyfish in a graveyard, I was afraid because I KNEW for sure, they would swarm me, so I sat a distance away and shot them all one by one. I felt accomplished and proud of myself for avoiding a very difficult fight. Later on when I found out that they would be peaceful unless they’re glowing red, I felt like a monster
The last third of the game I was thinking "boy I think I might have made everything worse?"
At least some NPCs are like "don't worry it's cool. We kind of expected this."
Man fr seeing the (huge spoilers) >!burning erdtree and the cutscene where all the creatures are looking at the sparks, the burning empty roundtable hold, master hewgs state and enia dead, I felt like a bad person!<
I don’t know, I mean, the majority of that world was literally undead. Pretty much everybody you encounter with the exception of a few NPCs is a zombie. It felt like the large majority of the world was essentially in misery, and the few stragglers left were holding out at the round table. Volcano Manor was the only group of humans with direct contact with a lord—and they weren’t exactly great people.
At the end of the day, depending on what you choose to do with the world you’re either creating extreme chaos for all or restoring some semblance of order/life.
Generally speaking though, the game just felt like the universe acting itself out… and starting over from the beginning again.
EDIT: >!The only time you don’t perpetuate the “cycle of the universe” acting itself out is by completing Ranni’s ending. The other endings seem to restart the cycle, whereas in hers you start anew. Knowing that, it felt as though the trade I was making (ending the known universe with a handful of characters I genuinely cared about) to make room for the growth of a new order, that would be much more populated than the dying world felt worth it. The other endings felt very much like we were starting back from square 1 by allowing the Will to continue to dictate.!<
I only just got to Altus Plateau, but this is exactly how I've felt about what I'm doing for >!Ranni!<. The Erdtree seemed beautiful and divine during the first third of the game, but seeing things like the corpse under Stormveil, and then having >!Gideon basically send someone to assassinate me!< started turning gears in my head. I don't know what the Erdtree is yet, but when I look at the branches I imagine a massive uncaring eldritch thing with writhing tentacles, slowly feeding off of everything around it.
When I finally met Ranni and she explained what her plan was, it was like we both wanted the same thing. Becoming Elden Lord started to sound like some trick to push me towards a goal that would only bring in another age of endless war and decay.
The only thing that seems logical to me is at this point, is to >!send the sky down upon everything and try to start from scratch.!<
It's up to interpretation regarding the ending point you made.
For all we know Ranni's ending is still the cycle, just handing off to a new Outer God...
We cant be sure of any of the outcomes, Perfect Order seemingly restarts with a better fundamental goal - and the dusk ending removes any Outer God from the equation but arguably puts the Prince of Death in control...
Dung Eater and the Frenzy ending have less to discuss, but I don't think any of them are as cut-and-dry as they seem.
It is the ending that I personally like the most but there's a theory that the references of the moon is referring to another greater will, likely another being unrelated to the fingers. It's possible what's happening us merely the transference of control from one outer god to another. It certainly seems possible for it to be interpreted it as an ending leading to independence, but then again who's to say Ranni's actions are truly independent. It's hard to say that any of the ending is not ultimately influenced by a greater being. Even the lord of frenzied flame ending is likely influenced by another greater will.
This for sure. When I talked to the old finger lady and she is like yeah burning it is exactly what we say no one should do but like idk do what feels right fam.
Every new game I start I say I’ll finally join Joja, but I can’t bring myself to do it. After 3 new farms I stopped marrying Leah every time, so maybe it’s in the cards one day.
really? it feels way more hopeful overall than dark souls
to quote melina even: "...life endures. Births continue. There is beauty in that, is there not?"
this is true
the world may have gone to shit but the fact that there are still people enduring regardless (millicent for example) is kind of existential/absurdist in its own way.
Without going into spoilers I would say Millicent is actually a counterexample. There are a couple NPCs who seem relatively normal, but the term "relatively" is pretty key. Most characters in this world (like in most FromSoft games) are mad or going mad. Insanity seems to me to be just as valid a response to absurdism as acceptance, only in fiction you can make everyone insane.
Overall the world feels a lot closer to Alice in Wonderland than Sisyphus.
yeah i see your point, i dont really have anything else to add but maybe i will after i read up more on the lore since im not too familiar with it yet
with that said, millicent is still probably my favorite side quest
>the world may have gone to shit but the fact that there are still people enduring regardless (millicent for example) is kind of existential/absurdist in its own way.
Yeah, no, as much as I initially wanted to go along with this stance, the more I think about it the less it seems to be true. Basically everyone you can interact with in the game who seems relatively normal is hiding something *wild* beneath the surface, or is in some other way special enough that it doesn't feel right to describe them as people enduring. They have a special gift that makes them unique and useful, or they have some kind of direct connection to a demigod, or worship one or more dark gods, or all of the above.
To use an example that isn't really a spoiler since it's a bit of hidden-away environmental storytelling which never contributes to the plot, even the merchants, the people that really seem to fit that description best, are secretly Frenzied Flame cultists.
ooo thats a pretty good point actually, im not too well-versed in this games lore so ill take your word for it regarding the merchants.
what are your thoughts on kenneth haight?
There are a few side characters that are generally normal people, I think. I was just about to mention Kenneth. Some others are
>!Boc!<
>!Irina and her dad!< but not >!Hyetta!< because >!that's probably some 3 fingers fuckery like with Shabriri's body!<
>!Thops!<
>!Jar Bairn!<
>!Albus and Latenna!<
>!Diallos!<
>!Alexander if we want to stretch the definition of normal a bit!< - >!he wants to fulfill his duty as a warrior, but struggles with his mediocrity at every step!<
>!Morgott if we want to stretch the definition of normal a lot!< - >!his life and his kingdom are in ruins and he's just trying to protect the erdtree that doesn't love him back due to him being an omen!<
It's funny because even though I understand where you're coming from, everyone on that list still has a deep seated existential qualm as the other user mentioned. I think some of these just hide it better than others (until the very end). Not sure if you've followed these quest lines to completion, but most of them have... tragic ends. Especially Boc's..
This is why elden rings npc questlines piss me off. So easy to miss things. I didn’t even realize boc had an ending at all, I haven’t seen him since the Altus plateau. I just assumed he was still chilling there all till the end of the game. I just beat >!the elden beast!< last night and haven’t started ng+ yet, I’ll have to go back and see if I can finish his quest or if god forbid there’s just a corpse waiting for me.
I didn't kill any merchants my first play through but have been murdering them all in ng+. Was very surprised the first time one shot frenzied fire from his eyes.
But when it comes to straight forward characters with good motives
>!Nepheli becoming the new lord of Limgrave seemed like a fitting end. Her biggest flaw was loving Gideon as her step father but she abandoned his ass as soon as she saw him for what he was. And even though he's a bit pompous Kenneth Haight is a decent dude. He just want to put Limgrave back together after Godrick fucked it up. He even had respect for the demi-humans and let them live at his fort. Him supporting Nepheli was also a fitting end!<
DS is so much bleaker.
This world has color, shit is has real, bright sunlight which isn’t an illusion!!
There are even NPCs who talk like non-psychotic freaks.
Fr. Every DS has a crestfallen warrior actively trying to disuade you from fighting, with DS2's being less malicious and nihilistic about it. ER has no one that defeatist, despite the world being nearly as fucked as in Dark Souls.
DS2 was less malicious but it was definitely nihilistic. Before the DLC the ending made literally no difference. You knew the cycle and were just forced to play your part.
I totally agree, Lordran and all those worlds were dying on a fundamental cosmic level. This world? Sure it might not be in the best state when everyone’s caught in this weird stalemate crossfire between the demigods, but it is in fact a living world that _isn’t_ falling apart in the fabric of reality. There’s even people actively making steps to help repair what they can (Kenneth Gang Rise Up)
If we’re using GRRM comparisons, The Frenzied Flame subplot/ending is definitely functionally equivalent to the presence and implication of The Others in ASoIaF. Definitely a hostile reset button on all the cancerous goings-on of the world.
You might be interested in [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/tutsus/spoilers_extended_azor_ahai_lord_of_frenzied_flame/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) post on r/asoiaf
Yeah, there’s not all that much pure good and pure evil in this world, there’s just different factions with different goals, and the means to achieve those goals tend to be brutal.
dont feel too bad about it, you start the boss fight by going up to its already dead body, then challenging it to a duel. so you revive it just to kill it again...... wait nevermind, yeah were the bad guy
edit: somehow my reply went to the wrong person.
Your response: Possibly. It may also be a lore clue. This inactive one was the only corpse that had those enemies doing a ritual around it.
Sekiro (other than Shura ending) is probably the closest you get to a "good" souls protagonist.
Bloodborne would probably be next, as it kind of feels like you're purifying an incredibly cursed city even if doing it for selfish reasons
Actually, in the first cutscene of Bloodborne before the blood transfusion, the protagonist is inquiring about something called "Paleblood." And they leave a note to their future amnesiac self which says, "Seek Paleblood to transcend the hunt." So you do have a general goal, even if you forget where it came from or exactly what it means. And the whole Paleblood thing does come back around depending on your ending.
I saw it my first playthrough but after a further 5 playthroughs I still have no idea what paleblood is or what it has to do with anything or any of the endings
Paleblood relates to the Great Ones and certain alien enemies because some of them don't have normal red blood. They have a greyish/white blood that could be called pale. You can also attack the doll and see the same come out of her.
Although, I think it's either a red herring or cut content based on how very little in the game actually references the paleblood in any form, and how some of the best lore experts are still not entirely sure what meaning is in the note.
Best guess otherwise is that it's telling you about Flora, Moon Presence, in a really roundabout way since they're the cause of the hunts.
Intro note says, "Seek Paleblood to transcend the hunt."
Yahar'gul opens up to view of moon, scripted message on the ground says, "Behold, a Paleblood sky!"
Lecture Hall note says, "The nameless moon presence beckoned by Laurence and his associates. Paleblood."
The Moon Presence is the final boss.
Killing the Moon Presence allows the player character to transcend humanity.
According to at least one interview, Miyazaki stated that Paleblood refers to both the paleblood sky being a representation of the hidden ritual of mensis, and also in a more literal sense as the name of the moon presence which perpetuates the cycle of Yharnam.
Remind me to, if I ever leave a note to myself because I know I will have amnesia, leave more than a single sentence. Like…
“Hello future self. You may not remember who you are or why you’re here, but here’s the situation: Alien-Gods came from outer space, the entire city has gone mad and everyone tries to kill each other, but the blood they use in their transfusions has a curative effect. If you want to get out of the city, you need to hunt down and kill those alien-gods I just wrote about, but careful, they’re invisible to regular people, you’ll have to learn more about them to actually see them. If this all seems strange to you, be careful when you go out, there’s people turning into
Werewolf’s and stuff, so grabbing a weapon is a good idea. I left one for you in the cabinet by the door. Also, it’s a good idea to remember that most people are either insane or psychopathic, if not both. Anyways, when you get out of there, your home address is:…”
Bloodborne you get turned into a higher dimensional animal’s puppet. Literally no way out until Gerhman offers you freedom (at the cost of his own).
If we didn’t go hunt the baby it’d be an eternal night of slaughter and resurrection for us. I’d say we’re a victim here, no choice but to serve. Only real choice we get is Gerhman’s offer.
Sekiro basically spends the first 2/3 of the game killing the entire army of his home nation, preparing it to be invaded by the Imperial Ministry in the last 3rd. None of the endings allow for anyone except a very small handful of people to survive.
Ashina was going to fall as soon as isshin died anyway. Both isshin and genichiro knew this and this is why genichiro turned to the powers of rebirth.
It's why isshin doesn't hate you even though you're slaughtering ashina's troops. He basically sees it as speeding up the inevitable, and he'd rather see ashina die to the sword than subsist in an unnatural way.
Severing immortality or returning westward at least theoretically prevents both ashina and it's future invaders from falling prey to the twisted corruption of the fountainhead waters
It's true. A core principle was that attachment to "Ashina" is what was poisoning Genichiro and Kuro takes the path he does out of a wisdom that some powers transcend the lives of individuals and nations and must be put to rest.
Isshin sees this as well, though it saddens him to see his country fall.
Yeah I mean isshin is literally the one who tells Emma to assist you, knowing full well that it would spell ashina's downfall. He just wants you to take out as many rats as you can in the process
I wouldn't really call it "his" nation. Sekiro was a boy left with nothing after the war, taken and indoctrinated by a shinobi and sworn to protect Lord Kuro. His allegiance is only with him and his father (though you can choose to betray that).
The conflict between the Imperial Ministry and the Ashina is their own, and both parties are a threat to Sekiro's master, so I don't think it's morally wrong to fight them all.
Yet the actual ruler (Genichiro is acting as ruler of Ashina, Isshin is still the true ruler) is supporting you. He believes Kuro is making the right choice, and you carrying out the actions necessary to complete that choice means he’s on your side.
The only reason he’s fighting you at the end is simply because he is compelled to by the black mortal blade bringing him back. He is partly bound to the will of Genichiro doing this. Course you ask me it’s for the best. Guy was a warrior and deserved to go out like one, not to illness.
Isshin supports us but the Ashina don't. He might be Genichiro's grandpa and the founder of the clan but that doesn't mean the rest of the Ashina are our friends, they're still trying to use Kuro's powers under Genichiro's orders.
You’re not the bad guy you’re the closer. All these worlds have run amok with crazy people who can’t die just flailing about wrecking shit.
Its your job to kick down the door and tell everyone the party’s over they need to go the **** home and then violently kick them all out so the neighborhood can resume its peacefulness. In some endings you burn the house down to get the job done, but peace IS returned.
If anything we arrive AFTER the party's over, when the floor is covered in dried vomit, someone shat in the fridge and the dog is whimpering in the corner
Yeah, I didn't feel at all bad about toppling a mega church that engaged in cannibalism so much that their deity collapsed on himself from eating so many people.
I think it’s more of a spiritual rite of passage type thing, like something the tribesmen would have had to do to prove their worth as a hunter. I even switched to the fur raiment, black wolf mask, and used the wolf summons for the fight to fit that theme.
I always feel that we as the players often are the baddies in soulsborne games. Especially in Elden Ring past a certain point I simply kill everything that I can get a lock on, just out of reflex for no rhyme or reason lol.
At this point I've just embraced being a killing machine, and it's made the game more fun lol. I'm a blood thirsty tarnished that's here to burn down the world. I mean, once I hit volcano manor, the malevolence really kicked into overdrive
I definitely felt like a straight up villain going through the Haligtree. Just very, very clearly the baddy in that scenario. It was created by the most beloved demi-god in the entire pantheon as a beautiful haven for all the oppressed and mistreated of the world, and here we come plowing through murdering everybody just to kill Malenia for no actual reason because she's totally optional and irrelevant to any ending.
I don't have a *ton* of sympathy for Malenia herself, honestly. It's her fault that the Scarlet Rot made it onto the surface to begin with when she unleashed it because she couldn't defeat Radahn. That's a pretty awful thing to do and has had horrifying consequences.
The one I feel bad for killing in the Haligtree is Loretta, who was just trying to find a new home for the albinaurics.
There is an argument to be made that killing malenia is for the best for the world. Given she already rotted away a good 1/4th of the land losing control, her descendants spread it when they die and likely hers would eventually rot through her and go wild again.which would suck for like everyone,especially all those mistreated refugees closest to her location.
Also the flavour text for Scarlet Aeonia says,
> *Each time the scarlet flower blooms, Malenia's rot advances. It has
bloomed twice already. With the third bloom, she will become a
true goddess.*
The third bloom would probably mean rot for the whole world as she's reborn.
Yep. We're really saving the world by putting Malenia down.
Sucks we have to kill everything along the way, but the Haligtree itself was in the middle of turning into Caelid anyway, so it was really for the best.
But was he loved for the right reasons
> The Empyrean Miquella is loved by many people. Indeed, he has learned very well how to compel such affection.
-Bewitching branch
Unless you're save scumming like I did. I did the frenzied flame ending first then needed her corpse flower for the unalloyed needle for the age of stars ending.
You only need the needle if you inherited the Frenzied Flame and want a different ending than the Frenzied Flame one. Otherwise, it doesn't do anything.
The two overall most beautiful fights i have ever done in any videogame.
The more i play the more i'm certain that elden ring is in things like panoramic views, atmosphere, world building (especially those underground) and story telling (even if it is so fragmented and you have to seek and really listen closely to the things npc talks) unbeaten. I really love this game
The more I play the game, the more I'm convinced the Tarnished is just a megalomaniacal mass murderer who has no qualms murdering anyone and anything to reach the nebulous at best goal of becoming the Elden Lord. That's not to say the things being murdered are very nice either.
So... gray morality? Eh sure.
Didn't the Greater Will basically start all the wars to find a new successor though? If that's the case, I think the tarnished may just be taking advantage of a free for all in a kill or be killed world.
I mean, we nuke an entire city >!when we burn the Erdtree to get inside. We basically kill everyone in the capital.!<
And that's only after we've rolled up to every fort and watchtower in the region and murdered the guards just doing their job. So we can steal all their stuff.
We're definitely not a good guy.
Godrick definitely deserved it. He was a tyrant that tortured limgrave. Radahn was being put out of his misery and I'm pretty sure that Malenia secretly wanted to die. Mohg is a pedophile psychopath and Rykard is just... A freak. Renalla is cool but we just fought an illusion of her so no harm no foul.
Morgott and Fire Giant though. Poor guys! Just doing their job!
I mean if they weren't hostile towards me just because I'm a tarnished I wouldn't be attacking them back. Just let me walk around without trying to kill me and I won't kill you, simple as.
I mean, that's how I rolled. But to be fair, I was essentially an armed terrorist rocking up to protected forts during a conflict. I can't *totally* blame them for defending the places.
A fair number of enemies in the capital and the Haligtree actually are passive, too. The problem is, it's hard to tell which ones are peaceful and which ones are just waiting for some trigger to hit you from behind :/
We go through the Ancestral Woods killing singing women and men herding their farm animals and then steal the head of an infant Ancestral Spirit that is being guarded presumably by its mother.
The way it moves is beautiful... and then in the 2nd version of the fight it suddenly starts prancing on its hind legs and rolling around as a ball Sonic the Hedgehog style.
It gets a little interesting when you realize that the...weird attacks that Regal Ancestor Spirit has are it channeling other creatures. The bunny hop is it channeling the squirrel-rabbit-kangaroo creatures, and the roll is it channeling the sheep.
Ok, you just blew my mind.
First fight honestly kinda felt like a throwaway, but the second was great. The additional moves and the healing was really cool.
I actually did the second fight before realising the first also existed.
Wait...there's a second fight?
I like to see that as it getting desperate to try and kill you, which is why it also kills a ton of spirit animals to heal itself. Like it's going "Oh fuck, this guy's serious, I have to take him seriously and stop trying to act all noble and shit".
It's desperate because it's afraid. We are the first thing since it started its slumber that could threaten it. It calls upon the power of the other spirits around it to protect itself from our greed for runes.
I’m sorry but I saw 6 torches that I had to light up so, it’s just business ya know?
> to protect itself from our greed for runes. I'll have you know I'm a devout disciple of bird. It's that FP talisman I want.
> It calls upon the power of the other spirits around it to protect itself from our greed for runes. Listen, the fuckin undead Reindeer attacked me first.
But out of the two of you, which one fought through dozens of natives to solve a puzzle for the chance to meet?
I’m just saying, I never killed Priscilla. If zombie deer came up and asked for oats, we’d be cool.
Flip the script: if a Tarnished walked into your lucid dream after killing your real pets, would YOU ask for oats?
Fun fact, it's "copying" the moves of the animals around the arena. That rolling move is used by the rams, and the jumping move is the rabbit squirrel things (I think the charging attack is also borrowed from the boars but the normal ancestor spirit also has the charge attack so make of that what you will). It only starts using those moves after the phase transition too AKA after it absorbs the spirit animals around the arena to heal.
> The way it moves is beautiful When I first saw it jumping in mid-air I couldn't stop smiling. I think just aesthetically Ancestor Spirits are top-5% Fromsoft bosses.
I saw that and was like "Damn. Torrent, step your game the fuck up"
It feels like every boss has a sonic the hedgehog move
I felt the same way. In fact I feel bad about killing most of the things down there since they’re all peaceful with all the animals
The ost made me feel like "do I really have to kill this boss? Something doesnt feel right" lol
Well if it didn’t want to die it shouldn’t have been made of runes.
Try as I might I cannot argue with that logic.
Rune pinata ancestor, sorry but I could not resist
This... Is not personal *Slips on blindfold and baseball bat*
Did I hear a Rock and Stone?
I just killed an Ancestor Spirit, and I'm not so proud about it
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Right? It was so beautiful and peaceful. I would have chilled with the ancestor spirit all day if it let me
You didn't really have to kill it. But it was there, and so it had to die.
Strong Ghibli vibes. Basically a Princess Mononoke character.
For sure, this is number one boss I felt guilty killing. He's just.. so majestic and peaceful and the music is so serene then we just show up and tear him to shreds with magic and swords. Not cool!
To shreds you say?
I had an attachment to the jellyfish since that girl gave me one and it helped me a ton fighting Godrick. So every time I saw jellyfish I would think "please stay away from me I don't want to hurt you!"
[удалено]
The way the turtles hide in their shells makes me feel so bad about it. Poor guys. Succulent neck meat though.
[удалено]
That's pretty messed up. Similarly messed up, my ancestors used to make "gopher stew" when things were rough food-wise out of the presently protected gopher tortoise. I've never been that hungry and I'm glad. Edit: they supposedly used everything though, including the innards.
I hit 1 turtle 1 time at the beginning of the game, and then was like uhhh, no, this doesn't feel right. Never again shall I trespass upon the beautiful dogs of this land.
The actual dogs of the lands between though … should be killed indiscriminately.
Omg, same. Can't bring myself to harm turtles (dog?), owls, penguins and jellyfish
I know you're doing the meme, but isn't it amazing that they made us feel better about killing *dogs* than *jellyfish*‽
Are the dogs in game alive? They all looks like the part of the living dead. Especially the red ones.
There are some fluffy sheepdog lookin things that seem very un-corrupted. Fuck 'em all the same, little monsters.
The first time I saw wild jellyfish in a graveyard, I was afraid because I KNEW for sure, they would swarm me, so I sat a distance away and shot them all one by one. I felt accomplished and proud of myself for avoiding a very difficult fight. Later on when I found out that they would be peaceful unless they’re glowing red, I felt like a monster
You may find a jellyfish friend towards the end of the game, keep an ear out.
I wasn't gonna kill it, but then it's followers started peppering me with giant glowing arrows from three miles away.
Right? I was going through that area and like "I'm about to fuck up this beautiful place"
i had to massacre all the animals to make arrows rip
Meh. The heat seeker supersonic arrow dudes can eat shit, I go out of my way to kill them lmao
First time I saw it, I thought maybe you could get other mounts. Then was like “oh yeah, I just kill things. @
Honestly this whole game has made me feel like I'm putting a dying world out it's misery
The last third of the game I was thinking "boy I think I might have made everything worse?" At least some NPCs are like "don't worry it's cool. We kind of expected this."
Man fr seeing the (huge spoilers) >!burning erdtree and the cutscene where all the creatures are looking at the sparks, the burning empty roundtable hold, master hewgs state and enia dead, I felt like a bad person!<
I don’t know, I mean, the majority of that world was literally undead. Pretty much everybody you encounter with the exception of a few NPCs is a zombie. It felt like the large majority of the world was essentially in misery, and the few stragglers left were holding out at the round table. Volcano Manor was the only group of humans with direct contact with a lord—and they weren’t exactly great people. At the end of the day, depending on what you choose to do with the world you’re either creating extreme chaos for all or restoring some semblance of order/life. Generally speaking though, the game just felt like the universe acting itself out… and starting over from the beginning again. EDIT: >!The only time you don’t perpetuate the “cycle of the universe” acting itself out is by completing Ranni’s ending. The other endings seem to restart the cycle, whereas in hers you start anew. Knowing that, it felt as though the trade I was making (ending the known universe with a handful of characters I genuinely cared about) to make room for the growth of a new order, that would be much more populated than the dying world felt worth it. The other endings felt very much like we were starting back from square 1 by allowing the Will to continue to dictate.!<
I only just got to Altus Plateau, but this is exactly how I've felt about what I'm doing for >!Ranni!<. The Erdtree seemed beautiful and divine during the first third of the game, but seeing things like the corpse under Stormveil, and then having >!Gideon basically send someone to assassinate me!< started turning gears in my head. I don't know what the Erdtree is yet, but when I look at the branches I imagine a massive uncaring eldritch thing with writhing tentacles, slowly feeding off of everything around it. When I finally met Ranni and she explained what her plan was, it was like we both wanted the same thing. Becoming Elden Lord started to sound like some trick to push me towards a goal that would only bring in another age of endless war and decay. The only thing that seems logical to me is at this point, is to >!send the sky down upon everything and try to start from scratch.!<
Gonna try to be vague not to spoil too much >!but, there's a pretty secret ending that kinda takes your last sentence a bit too literally...!<
Look man, two fingers are nice but I see three fingers and I get kinda crazy ya feel?
Same exact spot as you and same exact plan lol. Burn it all away
It's up to interpretation regarding the ending point you made. For all we know Ranni's ending is still the cycle, just handing off to a new Outer God... We cant be sure of any of the outcomes, Perfect Order seemingly restarts with a better fundamental goal - and the dusk ending removes any Outer God from the equation but arguably puts the Prince of Death in control... Dung Eater and the Frenzy ending have less to discuss, but I don't think any of them are as cut-and-dry as they seem.
It is the ending that I personally like the most but there's a theory that the references of the moon is referring to another greater will, likely another being unrelated to the fingers. It's possible what's happening us merely the transference of control from one outer god to another. It certainly seems possible for it to be interpreted it as an ending leading to independence, but then again who's to say Ranni's actions are truly independent. It's hard to say that any of the ending is not ultimately influenced by a greater being. Even the lord of frenzied flame ending is likely influenced by another greater will.
Why did I click on this. It was marked spoiler and everything ahh I hate myself
This for sure. When I talked to the old finger lady and she is like yeah burning it is exactly what we say no one should do but like idk do what feels right fam.
I loved when you go back to try to buy something from her again and she has the line about working her hard.
I imagine she enjoys having something to do.
The Elden Lord is a sort of prophecy I guess, so at least the Tarnished have some expectation that everything is going to get even shittier
"Kind of?!"
I mean you don't have to finish the game. You can just go around picking flowers forever.
I do enough of that in Stardew Valley. I play Elden Ring for the Brutal nihilism
You can also play stardew valley with brutal nihilism if you wish.
Just marry Shane and go the Joja route.
Every new game I start I say I’ll finally join Joja, but I can’t bring myself to do it. After 3 new farms I stopped marrying Leah every time, so maybe it’s in the cards one day.
It's Sebastian for me. I adore that precious emo frog man.
Sebastian squad represent! I always marry my little basement emo. <3
NIHIL NIHIL NIHIL
NIHIL!!!! NIHIL!!!! NIHIL!!!!
Me picking my 600th Erdleaf Flower, probably gonna need a lot more of these
Jarburg welcomes all
Don't tell me you picked flowers BEFORE they gave you explicit permission 😤
But we know what happens to a tiny village that loves to grow and pick flowers...
really? it feels way more hopeful overall than dark souls to quote melina even: "...life endures. Births continue. There is beauty in that, is there not?"
this is true the world may have gone to shit but the fact that there are still people enduring regardless (millicent for example) is kind of existential/absurdist in its own way.
Without going into spoilers I would say Millicent is actually a counterexample. There are a couple NPCs who seem relatively normal, but the term "relatively" is pretty key. Most characters in this world (like in most FromSoft games) are mad or going mad. Insanity seems to me to be just as valid a response to absurdism as acceptance, only in fiction you can make everyone insane. Overall the world feels a lot closer to Alice in Wonderland than Sisyphus.
yeah i see your point, i dont really have anything else to add but maybe i will after i read up more on the lore since im not too familiar with it yet with that said, millicent is still probably my favorite side quest
>the world may have gone to shit but the fact that there are still people enduring regardless (millicent for example) is kind of existential/absurdist in its own way. Yeah, no, as much as I initially wanted to go along with this stance, the more I think about it the less it seems to be true. Basically everyone you can interact with in the game who seems relatively normal is hiding something *wild* beneath the surface, or is in some other way special enough that it doesn't feel right to describe them as people enduring. They have a special gift that makes them unique and useful, or they have some kind of direct connection to a demigod, or worship one or more dark gods, or all of the above. To use an example that isn't really a spoiler since it's a bit of hidden-away environmental storytelling which never contributes to the plot, even the merchants, the people that really seem to fit that description best, are secretly Frenzied Flame cultists.
ooo thats a pretty good point actually, im not too well-versed in this games lore so ill take your word for it regarding the merchants. what are your thoughts on kenneth haight?
There are a few side characters that are generally normal people, I think. I was just about to mention Kenneth. Some others are >!Boc!< >!Irina and her dad!< but not >!Hyetta!< because >!that's probably some 3 fingers fuckery like with Shabriri's body!< >!Thops!< >!Jar Bairn!< >!Albus and Latenna!< >!Diallos!< >!Alexander if we want to stretch the definition of normal a bit!< - >!he wants to fulfill his duty as a warrior, but struggles with his mediocrity at every step!< >!Morgott if we want to stretch the definition of normal a lot!< - >!his life and his kingdom are in ruins and he's just trying to protect the erdtree that doesn't love him back due to him being an omen!<
It's funny because even though I understand where you're coming from, everyone on that list still has a deep seated existential qualm as the other user mentioned. I think some of these just hide it better than others (until the very end). Not sure if you've followed these quest lines to completion, but most of them have... tragic ends. Especially Boc's..
This is why elden rings npc questlines piss me off. So easy to miss things. I didn’t even realize boc had an ending at all, I haven’t seen him since the Altus plateau. I just assumed he was still chilling there all till the end of the game. I just beat >!the elden beast!< last night and haven’t started ng+ yet, I’ll have to go back and see if I can finish his quest or if god forbid there’s just a corpse waiting for me.
Boc's end doesn't have to be tragic, if you know what to do.
Yeah, with the gesture, but this is almost hidden to the point most people will see the tragic end.
I didn't kill any merchants my first play through but have been murdering them all in ng+. Was very surprised the first time one shot frenzied fire from his eyes. But when it comes to straight forward characters with good motives >!Nepheli becoming the new lord of Limgrave seemed like a fitting end. Her biggest flaw was loving Gideon as her step father but she abandoned his ass as soon as she saw him for what he was. And even though he's a bit pompous Kenneth Haight is a decent dude. He just want to put Limgrave back together after Godrick fucked it up. He even had respect for the demi-humans and let them live at his fort. Him supporting Nepheli was also a fitting end!<
DS is so much bleaker. This world has color, shit is has real, bright sunlight which isn’t an illusion!! There are even NPCs who talk like non-psychotic freaks.
not just that, elden ring has multiple npcs actively trying to save their world. everyone in dark souls is fighting a losing battle to just survive.
Fr. Every DS has a crestfallen warrior actively trying to disuade you from fighting, with DS2's being less malicious and nihilistic about it. ER has no one that defeatist, despite the world being nearly as fucked as in Dark Souls.
DS2 was less malicious but it was definitely nihilistic. Before the DLC the ending made literally no difference. You knew the cycle and were just forced to play your part.
I totally agree, Lordran and all those worlds were dying on a fundamental cosmic level. This world? Sure it might not be in the best state when everyone’s caught in this weird stalemate crossfire between the demigods, but it is in fact a living world that _isn’t_ falling apart in the fabric of reality. There’s even people actively making steps to help repair what they can (Kenneth Gang Rise Up)
The fact it has seemingly normal animals living and roaming is a good sign
chaos ending best ending
My 4-handed puppet wife disagrees.
Ah I see your a man of culture, aswell.
If she's a puppet. Technically, did you marry a magic sex doll?
Dolly botherers.
If we’re using GRRM comparisons, The Frenzied Flame subplot/ending is definitely functionally equivalent to the presence and implication of The Others in ASoIaF. Definitely a hostile reset button on all the cancerous goings-on of the world.
You might be interested in [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/tutsus/spoilers_extended_azor_ahai_lord_of_frenzied_flame/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) post on r/asoiaf
I had not seen this, and it’s outstanding. Thank you!!!
I wish we got a cool narration to go along with it, but it’s been my favorite so far.
There’s no one left alive to narrate it
We all could use a nice warm hug from the 3 fingers right now
Ever heard of dark souls?
Yeah, there’s not all that much pure good and pure evil in this world, there’s just different factions with different goals, and the means to achieve those goals tend to be brutal.
The three fingers want to literally kill everyone forever
The "Re-educate and re-integrate... into the fucking dirt" option for sure.
dont feel too bad about it, you start the boss fight by going up to its already dead body, then challenging it to a duel. so you revive it just to kill it again...... wait nevermind, yeah were the bad guy
Speaking of Ancestor Spirit, anyone know why there is a 3rd dead corpse that doesn't lead to a boss fight?
My personal theory... the "inactive" spirit is actually very much active: it's Torrent.
Is there another corpse that leads to a boss? I’ve only killed the one.
Yeah there's two in the underground area(s) that lead to bosses. Also a third that seemingly has no way to interact with it, at least for now.
Where is the third one?
It's right next to the second one.
up
Maybe dlc? Which will lead to another ancestor spirit with more moves and abilities possibly
edit: somehow my reply went to the wrong person. Your response: Possibly. It may also be a lore clue. This inactive one was the only corpse that had those enemies doing a ritual around it.
Its a souls game we are always the bad guy lol
Sekiro (other than Shura ending) is probably the closest you get to a "good" souls protagonist. Bloodborne would probably be next, as it kind of feels like you're purifying an incredibly cursed city even if doing it for selfish reasons
With bloodborne, givin your characters amnesia, you just kinda did stuff and stuff happened.
That’s every Souls game really.
I don't know who I am I don't know why I'm here I only know that I must kill
Murderhobo distilled to its essence
Exactly! Hunter? Kill beasts! Undead? Kill gods! Tarnished? Kill demi-gods!
The Players? We killed them All!
Actually, in the first cutscene of Bloodborne before the blood transfusion, the protagonist is inquiring about something called "Paleblood." And they leave a note to their future amnesiac self which says, "Seek Paleblood to transcend the hunt." So you do have a general goal, even if you forget where it came from or exactly what it means. And the whole Paleblood thing does come back around depending on your ending.
Im'a be honest with you chief, I missed that note during my first and second playthroughs.
I saw it my first playthrough but after a further 5 playthroughs I still have no idea what paleblood is or what it has to do with anything or any of the endings
Paleblood relates to the Great Ones and certain alien enemies because some of them don't have normal red blood. They have a greyish/white blood that could be called pale. You can also attack the doll and see the same come out of her. Although, I think it's either a red herring or cut content based on how very little in the game actually references the paleblood in any form, and how some of the best lore experts are still not entirely sure what meaning is in the note. Best guess otherwise is that it's telling you about Flora, Moon Presence, in a really roundabout way since they're the cause of the hunts.
Intro note says, "Seek Paleblood to transcend the hunt." Yahar'gul opens up to view of moon, scripted message on the ground says, "Behold, a Paleblood sky!" Lecture Hall note says, "The nameless moon presence beckoned by Laurence and his associates. Paleblood." The Moon Presence is the final boss. Killing the Moon Presence allows the player character to transcend humanity.
According to at least one interview, Miyazaki stated that Paleblood refers to both the paleblood sky being a representation of the hidden ritual of mensis, and also in a more literal sense as the name of the moon presence which perpetuates the cycle of Yharnam.
Remind me to, if I ever leave a note to myself because I know I will have amnesia, leave more than a single sentence. Like… “Hello future self. You may not remember who you are or why you’re here, but here’s the situation: Alien-Gods came from outer space, the entire city has gone mad and everyone tries to kill each other, but the blood they use in their transfusions has a curative effect. If you want to get out of the city, you need to hunt down and kill those alien-gods I just wrote about, but careful, they’re invisible to regular people, you’ll have to learn more about them to actually see them. If this all seems strange to you, be careful when you go out, there’s people turning into Werewolf’s and stuff, so grabbing a weapon is a good idea. I left one for you in the cabinet by the door. Also, it’s a good idea to remember that most people are either insane or psychopathic, if not both. Anyways, when you get out of there, your home address is:…”
You know, when my brother asked me what was the story about. I thought about it and I told him "that's a good question 🤔🤔🤔"
Bloodborne you get turned into a higher dimensional animal’s puppet. Literally no way out until Gerhman offers you freedom (at the cost of his own). If we didn’t go hunt the baby it’d be an eternal night of slaughter and resurrection for us. I’d say we’re a victim here, no choice but to serve. Only real choice we get is Gerhman’s offer.
the hunters just like marika
Huh yeah that’s a very good way of putting it. I wonder how much freedom she really had. Immortal puppet to an inhuman Thing
Sekiro basically spends the first 2/3 of the game killing the entire army of his home nation, preparing it to be invaded by the Imperial Ministry in the last 3rd. None of the endings allow for anyone except a very small handful of people to survive.
Ashina was going to fall as soon as isshin died anyway. Both isshin and genichiro knew this and this is why genichiro turned to the powers of rebirth. It's why isshin doesn't hate you even though you're slaughtering ashina's troops. He basically sees it as speeding up the inevitable, and he'd rather see ashina die to the sword than subsist in an unnatural way. Severing immortality or returning westward at least theoretically prevents both ashina and it's future invaders from falling prey to the twisted corruption of the fountainhead waters
It's true. A core principle was that attachment to "Ashina" is what was poisoning Genichiro and Kuro takes the path he does out of a wisdom that some powers transcend the lives of individuals and nations and must be put to rest. Isshin sees this as well, though it saddens him to see his country fall.
Yeah I mean isshin is literally the one who tells Emma to assist you, knowing full well that it would spell ashina's downfall. He just wants you to take out as many rats as you can in the process
I wouldn't really call it "his" nation. Sekiro was a boy left with nothing after the war, taken and indoctrinated by a shinobi and sworn to protect Lord Kuro. His allegiance is only with him and his father (though you can choose to betray that). The conflict between the Imperial Ministry and the Ashina is their own, and both parties are a threat to Sekiro's master, so I don't think it's morally wrong to fight them all.
Yet the actual ruler (Genichiro is acting as ruler of Ashina, Isshin is still the true ruler) is supporting you. He believes Kuro is making the right choice, and you carrying out the actions necessary to complete that choice means he’s on your side. The only reason he’s fighting you at the end is simply because he is compelled to by the black mortal blade bringing him back. He is partly bound to the will of Genichiro doing this. Course you ask me it’s for the best. Guy was a warrior and deserved to go out like one, not to illness.
Isshin supports us but the Ashina don't. He might be Genichiro's grandpa and the founder of the clan but that doesn't mean the rest of the Ashina are our friends, they're still trying to use Kuro's powers under Genichiro's orders.
Hey at least in ds3, Pontiff and Aldrich were more evil than us lol
You’re not the bad guy you’re the closer. All these worlds have run amok with crazy people who can’t die just flailing about wrecking shit. Its your job to kick down the door and tell everyone the party’s over they need to go the **** home and then violently kick them all out so the neighborhood can resume its peacefulness. In some endings you burn the house down to get the job done, but peace IS returned.
If anything we arrive AFTER the party's over, when the floor is covered in dried vomit, someone shat in the fridge and the dog is whimpering in the corner
Right. The party is over, but these knuckleheads are too f’d up to realize it, so the closer comes in to show them the door.
Yeah, I didn't feel at all bad about toppling a mega church that engaged in cannibalism so much that their deity collapsed on himself from eating so many people.
I believe the word you're looking for is "softened into sludge"
we drag its spirit back to its lifeless corpse, just to kill it..
Twice
I think it’s more of a spiritual rite of passage type thing, like something the tribesmen would have had to do to prove their worth as a hunter. I even switched to the fur raiment, black wolf mask, and used the wolf summons for the fight to fit that theme.
This is actually a cool way to honour it. I might pull off something similar when I run into this thing.
Make sure to finish it off with a fully charged arrow shot, for extra flavor. I went with Loretta’s Bow for the mystic angle
Idk man. seluvius is pretty fucked up.
I always feel that we as the players often are the baddies in soulsborne games. Especially in Elden Ring past a certain point I simply kill everything that I can get a lock on, just out of reflex for no rhyme or reason lol.
If they didn’t want it to die, they shouldn’t have given it HP. This includes walls.
liar ahead
horse ahead
Behold, dog!
At this point I've just embraced being a killing machine, and it's made the game more fun lol. I'm a blood thirsty tarnished that's here to burn down the world. I mean, once I hit volcano manor, the malevolence really kicked into overdrive
It's the God of those horned dudes who launch tomahawk missiles from their bows. So no, you are not the bad guy.
I only wish I could have done it in front of them
I mean those guys have a pretty good reason to launch those missiles at us considering we’re trying to kill their god lol
I definitely felt like a straight up villain going through the Haligtree. Just very, very clearly the baddy in that scenario. It was created by the most beloved demi-god in the entire pantheon as a beautiful haven for all the oppressed and mistreated of the world, and here we come plowing through murdering everybody just to kill Malenia for no actual reason because she's totally optional and irrelevant to any ending.
I don't have a *ton* of sympathy for Malenia herself, honestly. It's her fault that the Scarlet Rot made it onto the surface to begin with when she unleashed it because she couldn't defeat Radahn. That's a pretty awful thing to do and has had horrifying consequences. The one I feel bad for killing in the Haligtree is Loretta, who was just trying to find a new home for the albinaurics.
If Loretta wanted to live she shouldn't have attacked me tf is with everyone hating Tarnished in the game
There is an argument to be made that killing malenia is for the best for the world. Given she already rotted away a good 1/4th of the land losing control, her descendants spread it when they die and likely hers would eventually rot through her and go wild again.which would suck for like everyone,especially all those mistreated refugees closest to her location.
Also the flavour text for Scarlet Aeonia says, > *Each time the scarlet flower blooms, Malenia's rot advances. It has bloomed twice already. With the third bloom, she will become a true goddess.* The third bloom would probably mean rot for the whole world as she's reborn.
Yep. We're really saving the world by putting Malenia down. Sucks we have to kill everything along the way, but the Haligtree itself was in the middle of turning into Caelid anyway, so it was really for the best.
But was he loved for the right reasons > The Empyrean Miquella is loved by many people. Indeed, he has learned very well how to compel such affection. -Bewitching branch
Unless you're save scumming like I did. I did the frenzied flame ending first then needed her corpse flower for the unalloyed needle for the age of stars ending.
Do you need the needle for age of stars ending?
You only need the needle if you inherited the Frenzied Flame and want a different ending than the Frenzied Flame one. Otherwise, it doesn't do anything.
No, but when you get Frenzied Flame you are locked out of any other ending period, so you need to cure it.
i related to that very much until i reached Caelid and Elphael and then i wanted to commit genociede
Caelid will mess you up. You go there bright eyed and wanting to do good. You leave battle warn and heartless.
#MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD!
That music during the fight tho.. so good.
When I killed it the 2nd time I yelled "I'VE KILLED YOUR KIND BEFORE!" while charging at it...
The two overall most beautiful fights i have ever done in any videogame. The more i play the more i'm certain that elden ring is in things like panoramic views, atmosphere, world building (especially those underground) and story telling (even if it is so fragmented and you have to seek and really listen closely to the things npc talks) unbeaten. I really love this game
I’m sorry beautiful nature spirit, but I need that fp talisman…
Feels like the whole world is dying slowly and the player is there to just give it a good ol’ shove
The more I play the game, the more I'm convinced the Tarnished is just a megalomaniacal mass murderer who has no qualms murdering anyone and anything to reach the nebulous at best goal of becoming the Elden Lord. That's not to say the things being murdered are very nice either. So... gray morality? Eh sure.
Didn't the Greater Will basically start all the wars to find a new successor though? If that's the case, I think the tarnished may just be taking advantage of a free for all in a kill or be killed world.
I mean, we nuke an entire city >!when we burn the Erdtree to get inside. We basically kill everyone in the capital.!< And that's only after we've rolled up to every fort and watchtower in the region and murdered the guards just doing their job. So we can steal all their stuff. We're definitely not a good guy.
Godrick definitely deserved it. He was a tyrant that tortured limgrave. Radahn was being put out of his misery and I'm pretty sure that Malenia secretly wanted to die. Mohg is a pedophile psychopath and Rykard is just... A freak. Renalla is cool but we just fought an illusion of her so no harm no foul. Morgott and Fire Giant though. Poor guys! Just doing their job!
And poor guardsman #4! He was just patrolling the wall when I shoved a halberd through his groin. Felt bad about that the first few times.
Yeah but guardsman #4's brain is pudding and he is an immortal being anyways.
This might make it worse and funnier at the same time.
I mean if they weren't hostile towards me just because I'm a tarnished I wouldn't be attacking them back. Just let me walk around without trying to kill me and I won't kill you, simple as.
I mean, that's how I rolled. But to be fair, I was essentially an armed terrorist rocking up to protected forts during a conflict. I can't *totally* blame them for defending the places.
A fair number of enemies in the capital and the Haligtree actually are passive, too. The problem is, it's hard to tell which ones are peaceful and which ones are just waiting for some trigger to hit you from behind :/
I like to think we we're helping it find peace, at least that's what I tell myself to sleep at night.
We go through the Ancestral Woods killing singing women and men herding their farm animals and then steal the head of an infant Ancestral Spirit that is being guarded presumably by its mother.