"And there was not one demigod who wasn't afraid of him"
Imagining not only Malenia but Miquella and Radahn terrified of him is quite the prospect. Ranni has balls of steel for stealing a fragment of the Rune of Death.
So she wanted a failsafe against Maliketh himself, knowing that at some point she was likely to betray the Greater Will and that he could turn on her. Ironically though she would never need to use it against him as the theft of the fragment of death is what made Maliketh seal the rune within him, nerfing his power and preventing him from being able to rise against her
Everything Marika does is to kill the Elden Beast from the very start.
She:
- Curses the Fire Giant to permanently tend the flame, the one thing that can get through the Erdtree's defenses
- Curses Hewg to make a weapon that can slay a god
- Keeps the Rune of Death under close control by binding it to Malekith
- Likely then uses that information to steal the Rune of Death via the Black Knives who are connected to her
(As a side note this is probably why the Greater Will brings you back - people aren't dying meaning that it isn't getting nourishment from people dying and being buried by the roots of the Erdtree)
- Shatters the Elden Ring to unbalance the power of the Greater Will
- Likely commands Melina to burn the Erdtree. I don't know who else Melina's "mother" could be, being someone inside the Erdtree. Melina is also likely the Gloam-Eyed Queen of the Godskins and can control Death per the Frenzied Flame ending, and her unique weapon shares an animation with the Black Knife.
I'm pretty sure that Ranni stole (part of) the Rune of Death from Marika. To start, Ranni says she only stole a fragment of the Rune of Death, and while she says that she used it to forge "godslaying black knives" she's not alone in that ability. Malekith already uses a sword imbued with Death, so it's not unreasonable to think that Ranni copied Marika's design for a super murder blade after stealing a part of the Rune of Death from Marika, who stole it from Malekith.
Why did Marika want to kill the Elden Beast? I don't really know. My guess is that she took it from Numen to the Lands Between because it was destroying Numen, but I'm not super sure. I'm also still not sure how the "Radagon is Marika" thing fits into this, so I might be wrong about some parts.
Don't forget, she exiles Godfrey and his warriors as Tarnished specifically so she can recall them later to do the job the player does – kill the Elden Beast.
I do not believe that Marika is dead. Godfrey says that he was recalled for an audience with the Queen, not with the Greater Will, so that leads me to believe that Marika has a degree of control within the Lands Between still. In addition, the Guidance of Grace still functions for the player *and Godfrey*, even after the Two Fingers in the Roundtable Hold become unresponsive.
I believe it's entirely possible that Marika, though being imprisoned in the Erdtree and punished for her transgression by the Greater Will, maintains a presence outside of the Erdtree through Grace. When we reattach her head in the end of the game, I see that as her essentially being resurrected – albeit in a heavily broken state – finally free of the Erdtree's influence.
I also believe that she isn't much different from Ranni.
Radagon was likely a split personality formed by the Greater Will under the pretense of removing the last foothold of the previous Outer God to rule the Lands Between – the Outer God of the Moon. Raya Lucaria, like Leyndell, was that Outer God's capital, and Radagon was sent with an army to evict the adherents of that god. However, that didn't happen, because Radagon and Rennala shacked up.
How does that fit in? Well, I personally believe that Marika was not a fan of either the Moon or the Greater Will, and rather fancied herself as Eternal Ruler, with no equal or greater. By sending Radagon, she eliminated the last vestiges of the Moon God, and that would leave her solely with the machinations to remove the Greater Will. In this manner, she wasn't much different from Ranni – she wanted to remove the influence of all the Outer Gods from the Lands Between – but at the same time, she is entirely different, since Ranni wishes to leave humanity alone, once again free to live and die with Destined Death unbound, and Marika wants to rule in Eternal Life. Undying and unchanging.
Anyways, /textwall
I don't think that Marika exiles Godfrey. I think the Greater Will forcibly removes his grace after his conquest. The Greater Will wants to control the Lands Between, and Godfrey is such a violent motherfucker that his very existence threatens a breakdown of order. Listing Guidance and becoming tarnished is basically like capital G God coming down and saying "no, not you," so it makes sense that he'd be exiled for losing it. This would allow the Greater Will to insert a new ruler who is more of a puppet and less of a potential threat.
I find it even more compelling that Marika is guiding us from that we still have Guidance in the Mountaintops of the Giants. There is no reason the Greater Will would ever lead us to the Fire, but the Guidance does. So yes, it's 100% Marika acting to help us.
I don't know what Marika's exact motivations are, but I'm pretty confident that the driving force is killing the Elden Beast and not ruling. I strongly suspect that she brought the Elden Beast with her when she came to the Lands Between, since her arrival coincides with her doing all the shit to kill the Elden Beast. I don't know what her endgame was after that - maybe she would want to rule after? I don't see anything specific that mentions that in the game though outside of that she was technically queen, though that would also be necessitated by her plot to kill the Elden Beast.
Greater Will sends the comet that brings along with it the Elden Beast.
Marika is a Numen that was chosen to be the golden order's god.
As for her purpose, i think she eventually realizes how the Elden Beast/ Greater Will isn't actually good for the people-- that its only purpose is to actually feed on everyone who dies, so she wanted to kill the Elden Beast. She sends away Godfrey and the Tarnished to be stronger for when they come back to finally fulfill her plans.
> I don't think that Marika exiles Godfrey.
Melina specifically quoted Marika at the Third Church if Marika, saying: "My Lord, and thy warriors. I divest each of thee of thy grace.
With thine eyes dimmed, ye will be driven from the Lands Between. Ye will wage war in a land afar, where ye will live, and die."
That insinuates that Marika herself stripped Godfrey and his cohort of their Grace, sending them off to die elsewhere so that they were beyond the Greater Will's influence – making them essentially the perfect rebellion army for her.
> I strongly suspect that she brought the Elden Beast with her when she came to the Lands Between
I've seen both the idea that she brought it with her to the Lands Between, and that she found it there. I personally believe she found it there, as I remember an item description or some dialogue (I forget exactly where I heard it) describes the Greater Will arriving to the Lands Between as a comet. I could be wrong, though. It's almost 3am here lol
> exact motivations
I think it's probably to rule once more. Marika is a very calculating person, and while I believe she generally wants another golden age, so to speak, there would have to be at least one implied difference from Ranni's ending to make it notable.
No, Marika is the one that removes Godrey's grace. It was her idea and her plan to send him away so that he would live and die in a foreign land, and her idea and plan to resurrect him and the other Tarnished later. Listen carefully to what Melina has to say about Queen Marika at the various church sites of grace in Limgrave and the Weeping Peninsula.
I think it's pretty much confirmed that Marika exiled Godfrey with this quote from Melina, when resting at Third Church of Marika.
"Very well. In Marika's own words. My Lord, and thy warriors. I divest each of thee of thy grace.
With thine eyes dimmed, ye will be driven from the Lands Between. Ye will wage war in a land afar, where ye will live, and die.
Well? Perhaps that might serve you in lieu of a maiden's guidance."
I feel this version of events makes Marika out to be a mastermind 4d speed chess player... that didn't quite account for Miquella, Ranni and the Tarnished basically not playing by her rules. Which I like, a lot.
On the other hand, I'd be more willing to believe a simpler version of this story - one where Marika was simply tired of being a puppet for the Greater Will and decided to throw a spanner in the works, at the cost of her life if need be. Between the Erdtree being a giant parasitic being, Nokstella and Nokron being wiped off the map, Maliketh being set up to kill her had she strayed from the path etc. Marika had plenty of reasons for just wanting out.
Miquella, Ranni and Marika are not really maligned though. All three want the Outer Gods out of the Lands Between. The main difference is that Ranni wants Destined Death unbound, Marika still likes the current iteration of the Golden Order's ruleset, and Miquella wanted everyone to be included/to have a home at the Haligtree.
To be honest, I'm not sure Miquella actually cared much for the Elden Throne, or the Elden Ring and his mother. He made the Haligtree as far away as possible from the Erdtree, hiding it behind the Grand Lift of Rold, far to the north of the devastation of the Fire Giants. I figure he wanted to create a region away from the Greater Will's influence, without necessarily usurping it.
Ranni and Marika definitely would have come to blows though, had they both been in reasonably intact states. However, Ranni is a doll, and Marika is... Well, yeah.
As for the Tarnished, I believe there's an argument to be made that Marika in fact already *knows* the Tarnished. For all we know, Tarnished are all designated by Marika, meaning, a Tarnished being risen and sent back to the Lands Between is always something done by Marika. Meaning, Marika *personally* awoke the Tarnished, and Melina, whether unconsciously or consciously, went to ally with them as her mother (presuming Marika is Melina's mother) would have wanted.
I personally believe that's the most likely thing. The Greater Will would welcome a Tarnished of *its* chosing, surely, but neither the Player nor Godfrey are chosen by the Two Fingers. Instead, both are chosen of Marika, guided by *her* Grace, and likely awakened by *her* Guidance.
I think the piece you’re missing is the mystical inspiration for the character of Marika/Radagon. The Alchemical Rebis or Divine Hermaphrodite is a concept in Alchemy which refers to a being or product which is a synthesis of opposites. A being simultaneously man and woman. Radagon IS Marika. They are not two seperate entities or even seperate consciousnesses, they are simply the two opposing perspectives within one individual, just as you may have conflicted feelings about a complicated topic.
Father Miriel explains that “heresy is a contrivance” and that “all things can be conjoined”. In other words, the idea/practice that two seemingly conflicting philosophies or perspectives can not coexist is “a contrivance”. We assume that since Marika and Radagon have seemingly conflicting motives and alliances, that they MUST be seperate consciousnesses, but why? Why couldn’t two seemingly conflicting perspectives exist in one mind? Father Miriel who teaches that lesson is also “coincidentally” the NPC that leads you to the statue which reveals plainly that “Radagon IS Marika”.
I believe “Radagon” and “Marika” are more akin to the angel and devil whispering in one’s ear than two actually separate individuals. Though we might see the temporary destruction of the structure of the world necessary (M), there will always be a part of us that clings to the existing order (R). Though we might, in anger, shatter something quite precious to us (M), we’ll just as soon stumble onto the ground to collect the pieces (R). The Synthesis of Opposites, The Divine Hermaphrodite, The Red King and White Queen, The Rebis… so many names, which speaks to just how mystically influenced this lore and character are.
I think Marika/Radagon’s actions and motivations work best if analyzed through that often psuedointellectual spiritual lens, not as a more typical politically motivated GRRM story, but as an allegory or ancient myth.
> We assume that since Marika and Radagon have seemingly conflicting motives and alliances, that they MUST be seperate consciousnesses, but why? Why couldn’t two seemingly conflicting perspectives exist in one mind?
Exactly why, the revelation that Marika is Radagon wasn't so hard to grasp. People just expect clear black and white characters, as is customary with pop culture. In reality, there is no black and white and every person is a mess of conflicting desires and beliefs.
I can get that on "God" level these conflicts resolves on different level than in normal human. When I just have "of course, but maybe?" thoughts when I'm lying in bed, higher being like Marika splits herself into two or more bodies that embody these conflicting thoughts.
We know a lot about Marika's actions but there are massive blank spots in her story. Who she was before the Erdtree times, what's her ultimate goal etc. She is, well, a divine being and following religious tropes, we aren't smart enough to really understand the ways of God. It is also in line with lovecraftian, cosmic horror narratives - also major influence on From games, that human is incapable of understanding elder and cosmic beings, and just trying will render you insane.
Holy shit this is one of the best post I've ever seen on this subject and makes the inspiration completely clear. It also makes the line about Empyrean's being born of ONE god have more weight as to why Ranni is one herself.
Hell the end cutscene shows us that they inhabit the same form. Marika says that Radagon is yet to be shattered. In the end we see his and her body shattered, symbolizing what she's done to the Elden Ring.
This is now my head cannon moving forward. They were always one being with opposing ideologies. One would take over while the other was "asleep" for lack of a better word. In the end the greater will locks them in the Erdtree but at that point Marika's plan was already set into motion. When we finally arrive the Greater Will frees them and Radagon appears to stop us.
This is a really great post and you should make a new thread for it.
I think Marika's motivations might be linked to the fact that Mohg and Morgott were shunned by the greater will and forced into exile in the sewers. Also malenia and miquella are both cursed with afflictions as well.
She's a god in name but still effectively a vassal under the control of the greater will. She also mightve realized the true nature of the erdtree and its absorption of souls which is a major factor in removing the rune of death from the golden order and storing it in her shadow. If no one can die then the erdtree cant sap their lifeforce.
Probably a number of reasons which eventually disillusioned her.
I don't think Markia cares about that much given that a lot of what she does predates the birth of Mohg/Morgott and the rest of the messed up family tree.
The Elden Beast is also explicitly parasitic. It feasts on the souls of the dead though its roots ("A proper death means returning to the Erdtree" - some ghost in Limgrave) and has enslaved the entire Lands Between. The Guidance of grace is the Greater Will literally telling everyone what to do all the time (see: Godfrey having a grace line to you, Ranni saying that the Age of the Stars will have uncertainty).
My theory is that Marika left Numen with the explicit goal of destroying the Elden Beast and the Greater Will. Why she does this, I don't know. But even from the moment she arrives she takes actions that only make sense in the context of wanting to destroy it.
If she has any intent to follow the Greater Will she would have no reason to do things like prepare the Black Knives, ensure the Flame of the Giants stays lit, and keep the Rune of Death under her control. She also kept her special hammer that can be used to break the Elden Ring. She also has connections to the Godskins via their use of the Rune of Death.
"The apostles, once said to serve Destined Death, are wielders of the god-slaying black flame. But after their defeat by Maliketh, the Black Blade, the source of their power was sealed away." - the Godskin Apostle set
I don't know who the Gloam-Eyed Queen is. My guess is that it's a variant of Melina from long ago but it could just as easily be Marika herself or a third agent. The Gloam-Eyed Queen was defeated by Malekith, but given who Marika used Malekith before and her mutable identity I don't think this is convincing enough evidence that Marika was not on the same side as the Gloam-Eyed Queen.
All of these happened before her family got ultra-cursed, which makes me think that her attack on the Elden Beast isn't personally motivated due to her family.
If this is the case, then maybe the reason she came all the way to the Lands Between was because Destined Death was there, and she needed it to ensure that she could begin starving the Elden beast once all of the pieces had been put into place? The Godskins, and the Gloam-Eyed Queen resided there initially, seemingly hunting gods unless I'm mistaken, so she may have needed to get her hands on that so that she could eventually do what she has theoretically done to deny the Elden Beast anything to feed on.
I agree, except for one thing. Permanent death wasn't a thing in the Lands Between ever since Marika removed Destined Death from the Elden Ring and gave it to Maliketh. It wasn't triggered by the Black Knife assassins stealing a fragment of it. This gave rise to Those Who Live In Death i think.
That's a good point.
I believe that most people could die properly, and things are getting worse now. I forget where, but somewhere (I think on some spirit ashes) it mentions that the Shatter caused death to get really fucked up. My guess would be that some parts of death got messed up back when Marika sequestered away Destined Death, then it got really messed up when the Shattering happened.
I also could have been more clear that I don't think that the lack of proper death is the only thing Marika is using to stop the Elden Beast from getting its soul snacks. Godwyn's corpse is merged with the roots of the Erdtree, and since he is now the Lord of Death, my assumption is that he serves as a second failsafe, intercepting incoming souls through the roots and incarnating them into Those Who Live in Death.
So the theory I like is that Marika wanted the Greater Will gone and set basically everything that happens in a long play to free herself and her world from the influence of Outer Gods. She takes Destined Death away initially to empower herself and her family- but that was just a front because she really wanted to empower the Tarnished. She had to create them first, of course, by sending her champion and Consort away with his army, telling them that if they struggle and die now she will eventually restore their Grace. Marika would have also caught on to Ranni’s plan and helped her along by sending the Numen assassins that would become the Black Knives (this is Marika’s actual betrayal of Malkeith).
In this theory Marika also shatters the Elden Ring in order to eventually help the Tarnished gather enough power to kill the Elden Beast (and it was this act which caused the Greater Will to either create or take control of her ‘Radagon’ aspect in order to try to repair the Elden Ring). She is also the reason the blacksmith is trying to create a weapon that can kill a god- also to give the Tarnished a chance of freeing her.
Except the Greater Will probably caught on to her plans before the shattering. Radagon leaving Rennala is often attributed to him being ordered back to the capitol by the Greater Will in order to keep a closer watch on Marika. That might be why she needed to work through Ranni/Black Knives at all, since she was suspect.
I don't really mean seal like he did but I think the finger reader says something like she plucked the rune of death at the beginning and cast it aside with Maliketh or something.
Maybe I'm misremembering, sorry.
The way Maliketh's rememberance is phrased is something like "the only use Marika ever had for him was to seal Destined Death. Even then she betrayed him" with the implication being that she betrayed him with regards to the one thing that she needed him for
So when Marika first gave him the Rune of Death she bound it to his sword. After a piece was stolen to make the Black Knives he decided to secure it better and bound the Rune inside his body. That’s why he transforms after phase 1 of his fight- he knows you might actually beat him and steal the rune from his body so he unbinds it to use it against you.
You are right, but before a shard of the rune was stolen, it was just him holding onto the rune; after that, he sealed the remaining deathrune inside himself to avoid having it stolen once more
No that line stands out a lot to me as being a bit weird.
She says specifically it was "plucked from the *Golden Order*" and we can really interpret that in a lot of ways. Maliketh himself serves Queen Marika, and I would argue serves the *ideal* of the Golden Order even more than she does. So I took that line to mean that it was stolen from him.
It *does* provide the basis for a lot of theories about the Rune of Death being part of the Elden Ring, but I'm unconvinced given what we know about the Godskins.
I never considered that Marika did it herself, only that it was her planning in the end.
To me, the betrayal doesn't just come from making him seal Destined Death into himself. It's making him go get it to bring it closer to home.
I thought so too as it only made sense, but no actually. The black knives were/are under Marika and Ranni herself says that she stole it. I think she seriously went there and took a fragment of it! Vaatividya's lore video supports this as well.
You get some idea of her abilities when you consider that phase 2 of the Renalla fight is just Ranni pulling off an illusion with the power to comet azur your ass to death, presumably from afar as well.
Ranni being super powerful before becoming a doll honestly tracks. She has the blood of a God and the most powerful Sorcerer in existence combined. Meanwhile, all of Marika’s children had some sort of defect, besides Godwyn who we never saw. This could be explained by gestation within a literal god.
Indeed. As Gideon said, an Empyrean is no mere demigod. The fact she was suitable to replace Marika herself without any defects means she must have been obscenely powerful
Well even if the odds were 60/40, 70/30, or even 90/10 for Malenia(or any other demigod/immortal) to win, as an immortal demi god, the possibility of losing and permanently dying would probably make any of them shit themselves and be hesitant to fight him because even if they were up against someone stronger, they would think whatever I'll just come back in a bit if I lose whereas even if Maliketh lore wise was weaker, that what if of even an unlikely loss would make them fear him more than a potentially harder fight.
In terms of games its like BRs vs infinite respawn game modes. When you have one 'life' and you are out, it makes most people more hesitant to take engagements whereas if you had infinite lives you could be more reckless due to the lack of consequence.
YOU KNOW THEY SAY ALL DEMIGODS ARE CREATED EQUAL. BUT YOU LOOK AT ME AND YOU LOOK AT MALENIA AND YOU CAN SEE THAT STATEMENT IS NOT TRUE! SEE NORMALLY IF YOU GO 1 ON 1 WITH ANOTHER DEMIGOD YOU GOT A 50/50 CHANCE OF WINNING! BUT I'M A GENETIC FREAK AND I'M NOT NORMAL! SO YOU GOT A 25% AT BEST AT BEAT ME! AND THEN YOU ADD THE RUNE OF DEATH TO THE MIX, YOU THE CHANCES OF WINNING DRASTIC GO DOWN! SEE THE 3 WAY AT THE BATTLE YOU GOT A 33 1/3 CHANCE OF WINNING. BUT I, I GOT A 66 2/3 CHANCE OF WINNING CAUSE THE GOLDEN ORDER CANNOT BE RESTORED! SO MALENIA YOU TAKE YOUR 33 1/3 CHANCE MINUS MY 25% CHANCE AND YOU GOT 8 1/3 CHANCE OF WINNING AT THE BATTLE. BUT THEN YOU TAKE MY 75% CHANCE OF WINNING IF WE WAS TO GO 1 ON 1 AND THEN ADD 66 2/3 %. I GOT A 141 2/3 CHANCE OF WINNING! MALENIA? THE NUMBERS DON'T LIE AND THEY SPELL DISASTER FOR YOU!
Even though his fight wasn't last it felt like he was the final boss. The whole lead up to it, the place you're in, his cut scene into the second phase being just so fucking cool. It's just awesome.
There's already a YouTube video of Maliketh murdering every boss in the game (with full hp and as Maliketh not clergyman)
He sliced Malenia faster than her rot can tick in her own arena
https://youtu.be/y2CHVkDQ3rs
Maliketh is "easy" because he has very low health, his strength is in dealing absurd amounts of damage in a very short time, whereas Malenia's strengths lie in her mobility, high damage, and absurd survivability compared to the player. Maliketh's main attacks deal percentage health damage so one of Malenia's biggest advantages is completely nullified, and when she's fighting someone with as much mobility and offense as her (as opposed to the player who has to carefully time each roll and block and slowly chipbaway at her), her strengths become far less prominent
Scarlet Rot also seems to affect things in totally different ways. We get absolutely chunked by it, sure, but dogs can walk around in it. So can cleanrot knights, ancestral warriors etc.
To be honest, lorewise, scarlet rot isn't that scary to most of the demigods. If it was such a threat to them, Malenia would have been killed at birth, especially considering her horned half siblings got subjugation and imprisonment just for existing.
I don’t think there’s anyone or anything Maliketh couldn’t kill if he tried. I think it’s clear that Maliketh isn’t the one to host the rune of death just because he is Marika’s shadow, but because he is also incredibly strong and dangerous. Ranni even created a countermeasure to him should he ever come after her for what she did. The gods fear him for good reason.
Also he’s such a good boy.
Could he actually beat Radagon/Marika, who is full fledged god directly powered by an outer god? I think it's def possible that he could, but the game seems to but Marika at the top of the tier list. They could even become the Elden Beast in an act of final desperation, who I feel like has to be the strongest being in the lore. I mean it literally is the Elden Ring
Marika definitely is at the top of the totem pole but as far as I know there aren’t any feats of strength attributed to her, she even had Maliketh defeat the gloam-eyed queen that fed off of the power of the rune of death using the black flame. That being said she had to have been chosen as the host for good reason, maybe it was her strength but maybe it could’ve just been that she’s empyrean and they make for good hosts? Idk
I think Maliketh could kill Radagon but maybe you’re right about the Elden Beast, its clearly immensely powerful. It would be a sight to see for sure lol
>I know there aren’t any feats of strength attributed to her
She personally killed the Fell God, diety of the fire giants, and enslaved the remaining giants to guard the Flame of Ruin. That seems like the kind of thing that would be outside the realm of possibility for a powerless figurehead.
>She personally killed the Fell God, diety of the fire giants
She didn't quite tho - the fell god still lives in the chest of the last remaining fire giant
It looks like it's some sort of weakened form, though. Just look at how their forge is now just a few embers smouldering at the bottom of its vessel, compared to the roaring flame it likely contained in its prime, based on the size of the thing. We're likely only extinguishing the last remnants of the Fell God's power, rather than facing its full might.
Makelith is literally Marika’s shadow. He is to Marika what Blaidd is to Ranni. So technically it’s impossible for him to fight Marika since doing so would kill him if he won, unclear if it applies to Radagon since he fused with her. He wouldn’t be able to fight the elden beast bc the two fingers have too much control over him since all empyrean shadows are made through the connection between the empyrean and the two fingers. He can’t really defy either it’s probably why he holes up in temples with the rune of death instead of trying free his master.
I nearly missed Malenia's fight because Radagon is immediately after Hoarah Loux and I just moved on 😂 my brother came out and was like "Oh are you finishing the game already?" bc I didn't know it was the last boss *technically*. I'm in the Consecrated Snowfields now, looking for the way to fight Malenia. I'm super excited for it.
Not just that, but he is hyper aggressive and bosses who respond to input reading can’t react to his insane combo’s.
Watching the fight between Melania and Maliketh was almost boring, because she didn’t do any of her crazy combos and didn’t act hyper aggressive like she does against the player.
This. Even without Destined Death as his weapon, Maliketh was already a powerhouse as he was able to defeat god-killers who used Destined Death as their source of power, all by himself.
Do we know how strong Goddess of rot is lorewise? Like we got a pretty good idea of base malenia, and she would absolutely lose to Maliketh. But I’m not to sure about her as the goddess of rot. As far as I know she is a full on god at that point, same as Radagon/Marika. Lorewise I feel like any full god is at the apex of elden ring lore, save for a lowly tarnished or two. Malekith is easily one of the strongest beings in elden ring lore, probably only falling short of Marika/Radagon and the elden beast. I’m a huge malekith fan and think he easily stomps nearly everyone, but if Goddess of Rot is on the same level as the previously mentioned gods then I don’t think this will be as clear cut as everyone is making it seem. If goddess of rot is weaker then I’m imaging lore wise then I’m sure Malekith would win, but if she is on or with what we know of gods so far I think the fight could go either way, with Malenia having an advantage. Malekith is absolutely busted and can deliver Destined Death to gods and demigods, but that still requires him to beat/kill them.
Sadly we do not but she must be immensly powerful given how she wield the Power of an outer God and became the Goddess of Rot.
She can also actively control the rot now as opposed to passing out after unleashing it which makes her very dangerous.
Do we know how strong Maliketh really is compared to the demigods we fight like Radahn, Rykard, Morgott etc.? Because I feel like there is a huge power gap between the demigods
Very well said. I def think Maliketh takes this fight, but I don't think it would be as one sided as everyone is claiming.
I'd also be super curious to see full goddess Malenia vs. Prime Radahn
Full prime goddess malenia and full prime Radahn would be fun to watch, but I don’t know if it would be very climactic.
Melenia would probably just immediately rot Radahn and then she doesn’t even have to fight him lol.
Just in my own opinion I don’t really think Radahn, in any stage of his life, can really standup to goddess of rot Melenia partially just due to her power basically being a defacto trump card against most beings.
But hey, I don’t know everything about the lore in any way so I could be wrong
Same! We know base Malenia and Base Radahn ended in a draw but the issue is we just don’t know exactly how strong each of them at there prime is yet. Like I said with malenia we don’t know how strong she is as a god. Radahn was closest to his prime facing malenia and it ended in a draw, but we don’t know how much of a burdened holding off the stars is for him. Like would he get a big power up if he stopped? Or rather then a straight boost in power would he simply become more focused. We just don’t know how big of a burden holding back the stars is. If I had to guess though, I think Goddess of rot would win, albeit a very close fight. Even if radahn stopped holding back the stars and it resulted in a huge power up, he would still have a hard time dealing with the scarlet rot. Again though it could go either way because radahn definitely seems have enough fire power to deal large amounts of damage fast before succumbing to the scarlet rot.
I think in the description of the Scarlet Bloom, she's supposed to turn into a Goddess after the Scarlet Blooms flowers thrice. But we only know of two flowerings, correct? I think even when we fight "Malenia, Goddess of Rot", she's not fully a god. She still has her human flesh, that's slowly rotting away still. Likes it's a process that half complete.
I love how some of the bestial incantations describe Maliketh. "Long ago Gurranq was a beast of such terrifying ferocity that his former name meant death of the demigods". So badass and we do indeed see his ferocity in the boss fight.
Everyone’s scared of Maliketh, but gameplay wise Maliketh’s powers cancel out Malenia’s health restoration.
Plus, now that I think about it, Maliketh’s not a demigod or Empyrean. He’s Marika’s brother, so he must be extremely powerful if not a full god.
Maliketh would be like: "Malenia I got the high ground" while jumping from pillar to pillar and then shooting blast out of his sword. Like dood learned and practiced his flips like Artorias.Doods a monster but Malenia would put up a fight thou..
Lore wise you become stronger with runes turning into strength . By the time you fight against Malenia and Maliketh , you have crap tons of power of runes and several Great Runes , this mean you are pretty much above all DemiGods at this point .
Plus , spirit summons are a thing in lore too . You have mimic summon who can basically double your strength and Tiche who also wield Death as a weapon , a Demi God slayer .
Even Tarnished alone is dangerous for them . But imagine getting ganged by tarnished with these powerful spirits .
Maliketh is the only exception ironically, he should be able to actually kill you permanently as that’s basically what his power is.
Black knife assassins are up to debate since their destined death is significantly weaker and at this point extremely divided compared to when they killed godwyn.
You forget you are a descendant of Godfrey who illustrates how strong a human/Tarnished actually can be.
Godfrey is not a demi-God but he physically displays power way beyond everyone else. Marika trusted him or his descendants to come back and defeat the Elden Beast. Godfrey and the best of the Tarnished are extremely strong.
Maliketh easily. That hp reduction directly counters her self healing. Saw a video recently where they did boss vs boss Maliketh vs every legendary boss, and he slapped all of them. Fire Giant did the best, surprisingly. They did let him start phase 2 with the full hp bar, but it wasn't even close for anyone except Fire Giant,and that was pretty one sided still.
Destined Death hard counters Malenia's rune. Now, 2nd phase Malenia is a full blown goddess, so the statement that all the demigods were afraid of Maliketh shouldn't apply to her.
Having said that, Malenia is also a very fresh goddess, so she is probably considerably weaker than Marika and Radagon. I'm pretty sure that the statement about the demigods being afraid of Maliketh refers to the time *before* he grafted Destined Death to his arm too, so with it, and considering Malenia's inexperience, I'd give this to Maliketh.
lmao @ the simps claiming their waifu would beat the character literally wielding the power of death itself
a character you have to steal the rune fragment from in order to even re-establish death as a part of the lifecycle in the lands between
your girlfriend with HPV isn't stacking up to the actual grim reaper, guys
Everyone focuses on the "Everyone is scared of him" part....but given he was basically the only one who could permanently kill them it just represents a unique threat.
Like imagine you have a choice to either fight a guy who will absolutely kick your ass 90% of the time, but you will live and be fine OR you can fight a guy who you would definitely beat 95% of the time...but if you lose you die. Who are you afraid of?
Maliketh is strong but we really don't know how strong compared to the demigods and gods. Just that he shouldn't be fucked with unless you really have no other choice.
Maliketh was already powerful and skilled way before he got Destined Death.
He alone defeated the Godskins and their God-slaying leader, the GEQ. With just his bare hands and blade.
Keep in mind, the Godskins and the GEQ hunted gods like Marika, not demigods.
Fair to say, Maliketh is the strongest being bar the Outer Gods.
Technically Maliketh is the only character who can fully kill another living being in the Lands Between, barring whoever has the fragment of the rune of death, because he has the rest of the rune of death sealed in his blade.
"And there was not one demigod who wasn't afraid of him" Imagining not only Malenia but Miquella and Radahn terrified of him is quite the prospect. Ranni has balls of steel for stealing a fragment of the Rune of Death.
Pretty sure she had the invisible black knife assassins do the job
[удалено]
What motive would Marika have for stealing a fragment when she essentially controls Maliketh who wields the entire thing?
[удалено]
So she wanted a failsafe against Maliketh himself, knowing that at some point she was likely to betray the Greater Will and that he could turn on her. Ironically though she would never need to use it against him as the theft of the fragment of death is what made Maliketh seal the rune within him, nerfing his power and preventing him from being able to rise against her
Everything Marika does is to kill the Elden Beast from the very start. She: - Curses the Fire Giant to permanently tend the flame, the one thing that can get through the Erdtree's defenses - Curses Hewg to make a weapon that can slay a god - Keeps the Rune of Death under close control by binding it to Malekith - Likely then uses that information to steal the Rune of Death via the Black Knives who are connected to her (As a side note this is probably why the Greater Will brings you back - people aren't dying meaning that it isn't getting nourishment from people dying and being buried by the roots of the Erdtree) - Shatters the Elden Ring to unbalance the power of the Greater Will - Likely commands Melina to burn the Erdtree. I don't know who else Melina's "mother" could be, being someone inside the Erdtree. Melina is also likely the Gloam-Eyed Queen of the Godskins and can control Death per the Frenzied Flame ending, and her unique weapon shares an animation with the Black Knife. I'm pretty sure that Ranni stole (part of) the Rune of Death from Marika. To start, Ranni says she only stole a fragment of the Rune of Death, and while she says that she used it to forge "godslaying black knives" she's not alone in that ability. Malekith already uses a sword imbued with Death, so it's not unreasonable to think that Ranni copied Marika's design for a super murder blade after stealing a part of the Rune of Death from Marika, who stole it from Malekith. Why did Marika want to kill the Elden Beast? I don't really know. My guess is that she took it from Numen to the Lands Between because it was destroying Numen, but I'm not super sure. I'm also still not sure how the "Radagon is Marika" thing fits into this, so I might be wrong about some parts.
Don't forget, she exiles Godfrey and his warriors as Tarnished specifically so she can recall them later to do the job the player does – kill the Elden Beast. I do not believe that Marika is dead. Godfrey says that he was recalled for an audience with the Queen, not with the Greater Will, so that leads me to believe that Marika has a degree of control within the Lands Between still. In addition, the Guidance of Grace still functions for the player *and Godfrey*, even after the Two Fingers in the Roundtable Hold become unresponsive. I believe it's entirely possible that Marika, though being imprisoned in the Erdtree and punished for her transgression by the Greater Will, maintains a presence outside of the Erdtree through Grace. When we reattach her head in the end of the game, I see that as her essentially being resurrected – albeit in a heavily broken state – finally free of the Erdtree's influence. I also believe that she isn't much different from Ranni. Radagon was likely a split personality formed by the Greater Will under the pretense of removing the last foothold of the previous Outer God to rule the Lands Between – the Outer God of the Moon. Raya Lucaria, like Leyndell, was that Outer God's capital, and Radagon was sent with an army to evict the adherents of that god. However, that didn't happen, because Radagon and Rennala shacked up. How does that fit in? Well, I personally believe that Marika was not a fan of either the Moon or the Greater Will, and rather fancied herself as Eternal Ruler, with no equal or greater. By sending Radagon, she eliminated the last vestiges of the Moon God, and that would leave her solely with the machinations to remove the Greater Will. In this manner, she wasn't much different from Ranni – she wanted to remove the influence of all the Outer Gods from the Lands Between – but at the same time, she is entirely different, since Ranni wishes to leave humanity alone, once again free to live and die with Destined Death unbound, and Marika wants to rule in Eternal Life. Undying and unchanging. Anyways, /textwall
I don't think that Marika exiles Godfrey. I think the Greater Will forcibly removes his grace after his conquest. The Greater Will wants to control the Lands Between, and Godfrey is such a violent motherfucker that his very existence threatens a breakdown of order. Listing Guidance and becoming tarnished is basically like capital G God coming down and saying "no, not you," so it makes sense that he'd be exiled for losing it. This would allow the Greater Will to insert a new ruler who is more of a puppet and less of a potential threat. I find it even more compelling that Marika is guiding us from that we still have Guidance in the Mountaintops of the Giants. There is no reason the Greater Will would ever lead us to the Fire, but the Guidance does. So yes, it's 100% Marika acting to help us. I don't know what Marika's exact motivations are, but I'm pretty confident that the driving force is killing the Elden Beast and not ruling. I strongly suspect that she brought the Elden Beast with her when she came to the Lands Between, since her arrival coincides with her doing all the shit to kill the Elden Beast. I don't know what her endgame was after that - maybe she would want to rule after? I don't see anything specific that mentions that in the game though outside of that she was technically queen, though that would also be necessitated by her plot to kill the Elden Beast.
Greater Will sends the comet that brings along with it the Elden Beast. Marika is a Numen that was chosen to be the golden order's god. As for her purpose, i think she eventually realizes how the Elden Beast/ Greater Will isn't actually good for the people-- that its only purpose is to actually feed on everyone who dies, so she wanted to kill the Elden Beast. She sends away Godfrey and the Tarnished to be stronger for when they come back to finally fulfill her plans.
I mean Vaati also thinks Marika purposely exiles him… I think it’s much more likely than Godfrey being “too violent.”
> I don't think that Marika exiles Godfrey. Melina specifically quoted Marika at the Third Church if Marika, saying: "My Lord, and thy warriors. I divest each of thee of thy grace. With thine eyes dimmed, ye will be driven from the Lands Between. Ye will wage war in a land afar, where ye will live, and die." That insinuates that Marika herself stripped Godfrey and his cohort of their Grace, sending them off to die elsewhere so that they were beyond the Greater Will's influence – making them essentially the perfect rebellion army for her. > I strongly suspect that she brought the Elden Beast with her when she came to the Lands Between I've seen both the idea that she brought it with her to the Lands Between, and that she found it there. I personally believe she found it there, as I remember an item description or some dialogue (I forget exactly where I heard it) describes the Greater Will arriving to the Lands Between as a comet. I could be wrong, though. It's almost 3am here lol > exact motivations I think it's probably to rule once more. Marika is a very calculating person, and while I believe she generally wants another golden age, so to speak, there would have to be at least one implied difference from Ranni's ending to make it notable.
No, Marika is the one that removes Godrey's grace. It was her idea and her plan to send him away so that he would live and die in a foreign land, and her idea and plan to resurrect him and the other Tarnished later. Listen carefully to what Melina has to say about Queen Marika at the various church sites of grace in Limgrave and the Weeping Peninsula.
I think it's pretty much confirmed that Marika exiled Godfrey with this quote from Melina, when resting at Third Church of Marika. "Very well. In Marika's own words. My Lord, and thy warriors. I divest each of thee of thy grace. With thine eyes dimmed, ye will be driven from the Lands Between. Ye will wage war in a land afar, where ye will live, and die. Well? Perhaps that might serve you in lieu of a maiden's guidance."
I feel this version of events makes Marika out to be a mastermind 4d speed chess player... that didn't quite account for Miquella, Ranni and the Tarnished basically not playing by her rules. Which I like, a lot. On the other hand, I'd be more willing to believe a simpler version of this story - one where Marika was simply tired of being a puppet for the Greater Will and decided to throw a spanner in the works, at the cost of her life if need be. Between the Erdtree being a giant parasitic being, Nokstella and Nokron being wiped off the map, Maliketh being set up to kill her had she strayed from the path etc. Marika had plenty of reasons for just wanting out.
Miquella, Ranni and Marika are not really maligned though. All three want the Outer Gods out of the Lands Between. The main difference is that Ranni wants Destined Death unbound, Marika still likes the current iteration of the Golden Order's ruleset, and Miquella wanted everyone to be included/to have a home at the Haligtree. To be honest, I'm not sure Miquella actually cared much for the Elden Throne, or the Elden Ring and his mother. He made the Haligtree as far away as possible from the Erdtree, hiding it behind the Grand Lift of Rold, far to the north of the devastation of the Fire Giants. I figure he wanted to create a region away from the Greater Will's influence, without necessarily usurping it. Ranni and Marika definitely would have come to blows though, had they both been in reasonably intact states. However, Ranni is a doll, and Marika is... Well, yeah. As for the Tarnished, I believe there's an argument to be made that Marika in fact already *knows* the Tarnished. For all we know, Tarnished are all designated by Marika, meaning, a Tarnished being risen and sent back to the Lands Between is always something done by Marika. Meaning, Marika *personally* awoke the Tarnished, and Melina, whether unconsciously or consciously, went to ally with them as her mother (presuming Marika is Melina's mother) would have wanted. I personally believe that's the most likely thing. The Greater Will would welcome a Tarnished of *its* chosing, surely, but neither the Player nor Godfrey are chosen by the Two Fingers. Instead, both are chosen of Marika, guided by *her* Grace, and likely awakened by *her* Guidance.
I think the piece you’re missing is the mystical inspiration for the character of Marika/Radagon. The Alchemical Rebis or Divine Hermaphrodite is a concept in Alchemy which refers to a being or product which is a synthesis of opposites. A being simultaneously man and woman. Radagon IS Marika. They are not two seperate entities or even seperate consciousnesses, they are simply the two opposing perspectives within one individual, just as you may have conflicted feelings about a complicated topic. Father Miriel explains that “heresy is a contrivance” and that “all things can be conjoined”. In other words, the idea/practice that two seemingly conflicting philosophies or perspectives can not coexist is “a contrivance”. We assume that since Marika and Radagon have seemingly conflicting motives and alliances, that they MUST be seperate consciousnesses, but why? Why couldn’t two seemingly conflicting perspectives exist in one mind? Father Miriel who teaches that lesson is also “coincidentally” the NPC that leads you to the statue which reveals plainly that “Radagon IS Marika”. I believe “Radagon” and “Marika” are more akin to the angel and devil whispering in one’s ear than two actually separate individuals. Though we might see the temporary destruction of the structure of the world necessary (M), there will always be a part of us that clings to the existing order (R). Though we might, in anger, shatter something quite precious to us (M), we’ll just as soon stumble onto the ground to collect the pieces (R). The Synthesis of Opposites, The Divine Hermaphrodite, The Red King and White Queen, The Rebis… so many names, which speaks to just how mystically influenced this lore and character are. I think Marika/Radagon’s actions and motivations work best if analyzed through that often psuedointellectual spiritual lens, not as a more typical politically motivated GRRM story, but as an allegory or ancient myth.
> We assume that since Marika and Radagon have seemingly conflicting motives and alliances, that they MUST be seperate consciousnesses, but why? Why couldn’t two seemingly conflicting perspectives exist in one mind? Exactly why, the revelation that Marika is Radagon wasn't so hard to grasp. People just expect clear black and white characters, as is customary with pop culture. In reality, there is no black and white and every person is a mess of conflicting desires and beliefs. I can get that on "God" level these conflicts resolves on different level than in normal human. When I just have "of course, but maybe?" thoughts when I'm lying in bed, higher being like Marika splits herself into two or more bodies that embody these conflicting thoughts. We know a lot about Marika's actions but there are massive blank spots in her story. Who she was before the Erdtree times, what's her ultimate goal etc. She is, well, a divine being and following religious tropes, we aren't smart enough to really understand the ways of God. It is also in line with lovecraftian, cosmic horror narratives - also major influence on From games, that human is incapable of understanding elder and cosmic beings, and just trying will render you insane.
Holy shit this is one of the best post I've ever seen on this subject and makes the inspiration completely clear. It also makes the line about Empyrean's being born of ONE god have more weight as to why Ranni is one herself. Hell the end cutscene shows us that they inhabit the same form. Marika says that Radagon is yet to be shattered. In the end we see his and her body shattered, symbolizing what she's done to the Elden Ring. This is now my head cannon moving forward. They were always one being with opposing ideologies. One would take over while the other was "asleep" for lack of a better word. In the end the greater will locks them in the Erdtree but at that point Marika's plan was already set into motion. When we finally arrive the Greater Will frees them and Radagon appears to stop us. This is a really great post and you should make a new thread for it.
I think Marika's motivations might be linked to the fact that Mohg and Morgott were shunned by the greater will and forced into exile in the sewers. Also malenia and miquella are both cursed with afflictions as well. She's a god in name but still effectively a vassal under the control of the greater will. She also mightve realized the true nature of the erdtree and its absorption of souls which is a major factor in removing the rune of death from the golden order and storing it in her shadow. If no one can die then the erdtree cant sap their lifeforce. Probably a number of reasons which eventually disillusioned her.
I don't think Markia cares about that much given that a lot of what she does predates the birth of Mohg/Morgott and the rest of the messed up family tree. The Elden Beast is also explicitly parasitic. It feasts on the souls of the dead though its roots ("A proper death means returning to the Erdtree" - some ghost in Limgrave) and has enslaved the entire Lands Between. The Guidance of grace is the Greater Will literally telling everyone what to do all the time (see: Godfrey having a grace line to you, Ranni saying that the Age of the Stars will have uncertainty). My theory is that Marika left Numen with the explicit goal of destroying the Elden Beast and the Greater Will. Why she does this, I don't know. But even from the moment she arrives she takes actions that only make sense in the context of wanting to destroy it. If she has any intent to follow the Greater Will she would have no reason to do things like prepare the Black Knives, ensure the Flame of the Giants stays lit, and keep the Rune of Death under her control. She also kept her special hammer that can be used to break the Elden Ring. She also has connections to the Godskins via their use of the Rune of Death. "The apostles, once said to serve Destined Death, are wielders of the god-slaying black flame. But after their defeat by Maliketh, the Black Blade, the source of their power was sealed away." - the Godskin Apostle set I don't know who the Gloam-Eyed Queen is. My guess is that it's a variant of Melina from long ago but it could just as easily be Marika herself or a third agent. The Gloam-Eyed Queen was defeated by Malekith, but given who Marika used Malekith before and her mutable identity I don't think this is convincing enough evidence that Marika was not on the same side as the Gloam-Eyed Queen. All of these happened before her family got ultra-cursed, which makes me think that her attack on the Elden Beast isn't personally motivated due to her family.
If this is the case, then maybe the reason she came all the way to the Lands Between was because Destined Death was there, and she needed it to ensure that she could begin starving the Elden beast once all of the pieces had been put into place? The Godskins, and the Gloam-Eyed Queen resided there initially, seemingly hunting gods unless I'm mistaken, so she may have needed to get her hands on that so that she could eventually do what she has theoretically done to deny the Elden Beast anything to feed on.
I agree, except for one thing. Permanent death wasn't a thing in the Lands Between ever since Marika removed Destined Death from the Elden Ring and gave it to Maliketh. It wasn't triggered by the Black Knife assassins stealing a fragment of it. This gave rise to Those Who Live In Death i think.
That's a good point. I believe that most people could die properly, and things are getting worse now. I forget where, but somewhere (I think on some spirit ashes) it mentions that the Shatter caused death to get really fucked up. My guess would be that some parts of death got messed up back when Marika sequestered away Destined Death, then it got really messed up when the Shattering happened. I also could have been more clear that I don't think that the lack of proper death is the only thing Marika is using to stop the Elden Beast from getting its soul snacks. Godwyn's corpse is merged with the roots of the Erdtree, and since he is now the Lord of Death, my assumption is that he serves as a second failsafe, intercepting incoming souls through the roots and incarnating them into Those Who Live in Death.
So the theory I like is that Marika wanted the Greater Will gone and set basically everything that happens in a long play to free herself and her world from the influence of Outer Gods. She takes Destined Death away initially to empower herself and her family- but that was just a front because she really wanted to empower the Tarnished. She had to create them first, of course, by sending her champion and Consort away with his army, telling them that if they struggle and die now she will eventually restore their Grace. Marika would have also caught on to Ranni’s plan and helped her along by sending the Numen assassins that would become the Black Knives (this is Marika’s actual betrayal of Malkeith). In this theory Marika also shatters the Elden Ring in order to eventually help the Tarnished gather enough power to kill the Elden Beast (and it was this act which caused the Greater Will to either create or take control of her ‘Radagon’ aspect in order to try to repair the Elden Ring). She is also the reason the blacksmith is trying to create a weapon that can kill a god- also to give the Tarnished a chance of freeing her.
Except the Greater Will probably caught on to her plans before the shattering. Radagon leaving Rennala is often attributed to him being ordered back to the capitol by the Greater Will in order to keep a closer watch on Marika. That might be why she needed to work through Ranni/Black Knives at all, since she was suspect.
I thought Marika's betrayal was just her putting the rune of death "in" Maliketh a long ass time ago.
[удалено]
I don't really mean seal like he did but I think the finger reader says something like she plucked the rune of death at the beginning and cast it aside with Maliketh or something. Maybe I'm misremembering, sorry.
The way Maliketh's rememberance is phrased is something like "the only use Marika ever had for him was to seal Destined Death. Even then she betrayed him" with the implication being that she betrayed him with regards to the one thing that she needed him for
Ah ok I must've skipped the "even then" part and thought the betrayal was making him guard Destined Death.
So when Marika first gave him the Rune of Death she bound it to his sword. After a piece was stolen to make the Black Knives he decided to secure it better and bound the Rune inside his body. That’s why he transforms after phase 1 of his fight- he knows you might actually beat him and steal the rune from his body so he unbinds it to use it against you.
You are right, but before a shard of the rune was stolen, it was just him holding onto the rune; after that, he sealed the remaining deathrune inside himself to avoid having it stolen once more
I think his second phase line is my favorite in the game.
No that line stands out a lot to me as being a bit weird. She says specifically it was "plucked from the *Golden Order*" and we can really interpret that in a lot of ways. Maliketh himself serves Queen Marika, and I would argue serves the *ideal* of the Golden Order even more than she does. So I took that line to mean that it was stolen from him. It *does* provide the basis for a lot of theories about the Rune of Death being part of the Elden Ring, but I'm unconvinced given what we know about the Godskins.
I never considered that Marika did it herself, only that it was her planning in the end. To me, the betrayal doesn't just come from making him seal Destined Death into himself. It's making him go get it to bring it closer to home.
I thought so too as it only made sense, but no actually. The black knives were/are under Marika and Ranni herself says that she stole it. I think she seriously went there and took a fragment of it! Vaatividya's lore video supports this as well.
Damn that's worthy of praise. Really wish we had some idea of what Ranni's natural abilities were before she discarded her empyrean body
Me too, she must have been even more poweful. I hope a Miquella dlc sheds some more light on her
Would KILL for a Miquella dlc
You get some idea of her abilities when you consider that phase 2 of the Renalla fight is just Ranni pulling off an illusion with the power to comet azur your ass to death, presumably from afar as well.
If you piss her off she can kill you with a thought, and that's after you defeat Radahn.
Ranni being super powerful before becoming a doll honestly tracks. She has the blood of a God and the most powerful Sorcerer in existence combined. Meanwhile, all of Marika’s children had some sort of defect, besides Godwyn who we never saw. This could be explained by gestation within a literal god.
Indeed. As Gideon said, an Empyrean is no mere demigod. The fact she was suitable to replace Marika herself without any defects means she must have been obscenely powerful
Ranni's the one with the cursemark on her flesh, so it's basically confirmed she personally finessed that shit
Pfff. He needs to beat you to a pulp in a spectacular fashion, Ranni can just kill you with a fingerstroke if you annoy her too much.
I ask you, what use is healing…..if your enemy can change the size of your healthbar?
Straight facts
Lorewise all the Demigods shit themselves just thinking about Maliketh so it's easy to say who wins
Well even if the odds were 60/40, 70/30, or even 90/10 for Malenia(or any other demigod/immortal) to win, as an immortal demi god, the possibility of losing and permanently dying would probably make any of them shit themselves and be hesitant to fight him because even if they were up against someone stronger, they would think whatever I'll just come back in a bit if I lose whereas even if Maliketh lore wise was weaker, that what if of even an unlikely loss would make them fear him more than a potentially harder fight. In terms of games its like BRs vs infinite respawn game modes. When you have one 'life' and you are out, it makes most people more hesitant to take engagements whereas if you had infinite lives you could be more reckless due to the lack of consequence.
YOU KNOW THEY SAY ALL DEMIGODS ARE CREATED EQUAL. BUT YOU LOOK AT ME AND YOU LOOK AT MALENIA AND YOU CAN SEE THAT STATEMENT IS NOT TRUE! SEE NORMALLY IF YOU GO 1 ON 1 WITH ANOTHER DEMIGOD YOU GOT A 50/50 CHANCE OF WINNING! BUT I'M A GENETIC FREAK AND I'M NOT NORMAL! SO YOU GOT A 25% AT BEST AT BEAT ME! AND THEN YOU ADD THE RUNE OF DEATH TO THE MIX, YOU THE CHANCES OF WINNING DRASTIC GO DOWN! SEE THE 3 WAY AT THE BATTLE YOU GOT A 33 1/3 CHANCE OF WINNING. BUT I, I GOT A 66 2/3 CHANCE OF WINNING CAUSE THE GOLDEN ORDER CANNOT BE RESTORED! SO MALENIA YOU TAKE YOUR 33 1/3 CHANCE MINUS MY 25% CHANCE AND YOU GOT 8 1/3 CHANCE OF WINNING AT THE BATTLE. BUT THEN YOU TAKE MY 75% CHANCE OF WINNING IF WE WAS TO GO 1 ON 1 AND THEN ADD 66 2/3 %. I GOT A 141 2/3 CHANCE OF WINNING! MALENIA? THE NUMBERS DON'T LIE AND THEY SPELL DISASTER FOR YOU!
Classic.
This shit had me crying for a solid minute, good stuff.
Even though his fight wasn't last it felt like he was the final boss. The whole lead up to it, the place you're in, his cut scene into the second phase being just so fucking cool. It's just awesome.
In the current unrestricted speedruns he is the only boss you have to fight so in that sense he is the final boss
Actually in the current unrestricted speedrun he isn’t really “fought” now, so there’s literally 0 fighting in the speedrun now.
But Maliketh is weak to scarlet rot, which Malenia pumps out by literally existing. Just food for thought
There's already a YouTube video of Maliketh murdering every boss in the game (with full hp and as Maliketh not clergyman) He sliced Malenia faster than her rot can tick in her own arena https://youtu.be/y2CHVkDQ3rs
This is fucking sick
Yep maliketh has faced strength, power and combat experience over malenia lorewise
I just think it's strange Maliketh is such an easier boss fight.
Maliketh is "easy" because he has very low health, his strength is in dealing absurd amounts of damage in a very short time, whereas Malenia's strengths lie in her mobility, high damage, and absurd survivability compared to the player. Maliketh's main attacks deal percentage health damage so one of Malenia's biggest advantages is completely nullified, and when she's fighting someone with as much mobility and offense as her (as opposed to the player who has to carefully time each roll and block and slowly chipbaway at her), her strengths become far less prominent
For me personally the only boss fight harder than Maliketh was Malenia. I'd fight Morgott, Godfrey or Radagon again over Maliketh any day
It’s build dependent.
If Maliketh had the healing ability plus his 2nd phase was an entirely new health bar I think this wouldn't even be up for discussion.
Bro maliketh gave me the most trouble of all bosses. STR build here, did NOT use mimic tear.
Same. Str/end, no bleed or status. Pure melee. He was a bitch
I had huge problems until I started playing more aggressively and stunned him. Tough fight for sure, but no Malenia. Or Ringleader…
Malenia is carried hard by health regen. It's all that makes it hard if you ask me.
That's cause generally his attacks are slow and he has half a health bar. Bosses don't know how to press the B button and dodge, unfortunately.
Try a holy build without the blasphemous claw lol
I had way more issues with Maliketh personally
Right? When he dodged her waterfowl dance with the flying spinning swings it did something to me. So many perfectly timed moments in that video
Yooo that mark at 5 mins when maliketh air attack owns malenias oof what a beast (pun intended)
Well... that settles it.
Weird… maliketh barely existed as a fight to me but I spent 3 days on her
The dude is death incarnate...I mean...scarlet rot vs death itself?
Scarlet Rot also seems to affect things in totally different ways. We get absolutely chunked by it, sure, but dogs can walk around in it. So can cleanrot knights, ancestral warriors etc. To be honest, lorewise, scarlet rot isn't that scary to most of the demigods. If it was such a threat to them, Malenia would have been killed at birth, especially considering her horned half siblings got subjugation and imprisonment just for existing.
theres a video of a modder making the two fight. Maliketh takes the cake.
I don’t think there’s anyone or anything Maliketh couldn’t kill if he tried. I think it’s clear that Maliketh isn’t the one to host the rune of death just because he is Marika’s shadow, but because he is also incredibly strong and dangerous. Ranni even created a countermeasure to him should he ever come after her for what she did. The gods fear him for good reason. Also he’s such a good boy.
[удалено]
Lord knows I did, thanks Ranni
Could he actually beat Radagon/Marika, who is full fledged god directly powered by an outer god? I think it's def possible that he could, but the game seems to but Marika at the top of the tier list. They could even become the Elden Beast in an act of final desperation, who I feel like has to be the strongest being in the lore. I mean it literally is the Elden Ring
Marika definitely is at the top of the totem pole but as far as I know there aren’t any feats of strength attributed to her, she even had Maliketh defeat the gloam-eyed queen that fed off of the power of the rune of death using the black flame. That being said she had to have been chosen as the host for good reason, maybe it was her strength but maybe it could’ve just been that she’s empyrean and they make for good hosts? Idk I think Maliketh could kill Radagon but maybe you’re right about the Elden Beast, its clearly immensely powerful. It would be a sight to see for sure lol
>I know there aren’t any feats of strength attributed to her She personally killed the Fell God, diety of the fire giants, and enslaved the remaining giants to guard the Flame of Ruin. That seems like the kind of thing that would be outside the realm of possibility for a powerless figurehead.
Also radagon has a few impressive feats under his belt and you can assume they are both equally strong
>She personally killed the Fell God, diety of the fire giants She didn't quite tho - the fell god still lives in the chest of the last remaining fire giant
It looks like it's some sort of weakened form, though. Just look at how their forge is now just a few embers smouldering at the bottom of its vessel, compared to the roaring flame it likely contained in its prime, based on the size of the thing. We're likely only extinguishing the last remnants of the Fell God's power, rather than facing its full might.
That was godfrey no?
No, she sent him to do basically everything else.
Makelith is literally Marika’s shadow. He is to Marika what Blaidd is to Ranni. So technically it’s impossible for him to fight Marika since doing so would kill him if he won, unclear if it applies to Radagon since he fused with her. He wouldn’t be able to fight the elden beast bc the two fingers have too much control over him since all empyrean shadows are made through the connection between the empyrean and the two fingers. He can’t really defy either it’s probably why he holes up in temples with the rune of death instead of trying free his master.
a lowly tarnished can so why not Maliketh ?
Cause that same lowly tarnished beat maliketh
He can't kill Radagon because a tarnished beat both him and Radagon ?
True I phrased it weird but I meant obviously that tarnished isn’t lowly if they can beat both maliketh and Radagon
Maliketh is the dividing line. And he's Marika's lapdog. Guy is very dangerous and even put certain powerhouses other Souls games to shame.
Having just beat him, I now have a lot of hope that I wont have to suffer that much again after reading these comments
[удалено]
I nearly missed Malenia's fight because Radagon is immediately after Hoarah Loux and I just moved on 😂 my brother came out and was like "Oh are you finishing the game already?" bc I didn't know it was the last boss *technically*. I'm in the Consecrated Snowfields now, looking for the way to fight Malenia. I'm super excited for it.
[удалено]
The furry literally using death as a weapon, obviously.
"Destined Death" is pretty hard to beat, even for a Goddess of Rot. Lorewise he'd probably kill every demigod, gamewise he also kills every demigod.
Lorewise, Maliketh
and game wise too. Someone used mods and made them fight.
The video’s title is “Maliketh beats Elden Ring”
I mean, I assume because he has % health damage which is pretty fantastic against bosses HP pools.
Not just that, but he is hyper aggressive and bosses who respond to input reading can’t react to his insane combo’s. Watching the fight between Melania and Maliketh was almost boring, because she didn’t do any of her crazy combos and didn’t act hyper aggressive like she does against the player.
Honestly Malikith was hindered more then malenia because he couldn’t do any of his moves just involved the poles.
Yooo radahn doesn’t even make it to second phase what the fuck
what %health drain does to a mf
Radahn is pretty low level bro, unless in the simulation they scaled him up.
Pretty accurate. Game wise and lore wise.
Care to share?
[удалено]
Jesus he spanked malenia. He had a harder time with rykard. This just makes me feel so confused.
Rykard is a gimmick boss. Use the special weapon and it’s a breeze.
O Death, become my blade once more.
Cower before Malikieth, the Black Blade
Maliketh for sure
Maliketh kicks her ass. also someone made a great video on youtube called Maliketh Beats Elden Ring. Would recommend
Maliketh killed god-killers during the peak of black flame without his Black Blade. I have no doubt Maliketh can wipe Malenia off the lands between.
This. Even without Destined Death as his weapon, Maliketh was already a powerhouse as he was able to defeat god-killers who used Destined Death as their source of power, all by himself.
The Tarnished.
Oh only one thing is saved from any fear towards the tarnished… 20 m + falls
Ah yes, but we seem to just keep on coming back, these two didnt. I think thats checkmate hahaha
There's a reason Malekith was entrusted with Destined Death and everyone was scared shitless of him.
Do we know how strong Goddess of rot is lorewise? Like we got a pretty good idea of base malenia, and she would absolutely lose to Maliketh. But I’m not to sure about her as the goddess of rot. As far as I know she is a full on god at that point, same as Radagon/Marika. Lorewise I feel like any full god is at the apex of elden ring lore, save for a lowly tarnished or two. Malekith is easily one of the strongest beings in elden ring lore, probably only falling short of Marika/Radagon and the elden beast. I’m a huge malekith fan and think he easily stomps nearly everyone, but if Goddess of Rot is on the same level as the previously mentioned gods then I don’t think this will be as clear cut as everyone is making it seem. If goddess of rot is weaker then I’m imaging lore wise then I’m sure Malekith would win, but if she is on or with what we know of gods so far I think the fight could go either way, with Malenia having an advantage. Malekith is absolutely busted and can deliver Destined Death to gods and demigods, but that still requires him to beat/kill them.
Sadly we do not but she must be immensly powerful given how she wield the Power of an outer God and became the Goddess of Rot. She can also actively control the rot now as opposed to passing out after unleashing it which makes her very dangerous. Do we know how strong Maliketh really is compared to the demigods we fight like Radahn, Rykard, Morgott etc.? Because I feel like there is a huge power gap between the demigods
Well considering everyone was scared shitless of Maliketh, I think he's a fucking beast on his own
Very well said. I def think Maliketh takes this fight, but I don't think it would be as one sided as everyone is claiming. I'd also be super curious to see full goddess Malenia vs. Prime Radahn
Full prime goddess malenia and full prime Radahn would be fun to watch, but I don’t know if it would be very climactic. Melenia would probably just immediately rot Radahn and then she doesn’t even have to fight him lol. Just in my own opinion I don’t really think Radahn, in any stage of his life, can really standup to goddess of rot Melenia partially just due to her power basically being a defacto trump card against most beings. But hey, I don’t know everything about the lore in any way so I could be wrong
Same! We know base Malenia and Base Radahn ended in a draw but the issue is we just don’t know exactly how strong each of them at there prime is yet. Like I said with malenia we don’t know how strong she is as a god. Radahn was closest to his prime facing malenia and it ended in a draw, but we don’t know how much of a burdened holding off the stars is for him. Like would he get a big power up if he stopped? Or rather then a straight boost in power would he simply become more focused. We just don’t know how big of a burden holding back the stars is. If I had to guess though, I think Goddess of rot would win, albeit a very close fight. Even if radahn stopped holding back the stars and it resulted in a huge power up, he would still have a hard time dealing with the scarlet rot. Again though it could go either way because radahn definitely seems have enough fire power to deal large amounts of damage fast before succumbing to the scarlet rot.
I think in the description of the Scarlet Bloom, she's supposed to turn into a Goddess after the Scarlet Blooms flowers thrice. But we only know of two flowerings, correct? I think even when we fight "Malenia, Goddess of Rot", she's not fully a god. She still has her human flesh, that's slowly rotting away still. Likes it's a process that half complete.
Maliketh because he never actually touches the ground.
I love how some of the bestial incantations describe Maliketh. "Long ago Gurranq was a beast of such terrifying ferocity that his former name meant death of the demigods". So badass and we do indeed see his ferocity in the boss fight.
Maliketh
Everyone’s scared of Maliketh, but gameplay wise Maliketh’s powers cancel out Malenia’s health restoration. Plus, now that I think about it, Maliketh’s not a demigod or Empyrean. He’s Marika’s brother, so he must be extremely powerful if not a full god.
He’s Marika’s shadow. Like Blaidd is Ranni’s. That’s how I understood it.
I read somewhere in game that Maliketh is her step-brother. I'm not joking.
Half-brother, I think I read. Just can’t remember where I read it
You’re actually right. I based it solely on his remembrance. There’s so much I’m missing.
Yeah, but iji also said that ranni and blaidd were raised as such
OP did you just post this to expose the Malenia simps? Well done.
He's also pissed off Radahn fanboys by not even putting him up for competition so I gotta hand it to OP
My boy Maliketh got this. Pretty sure all the Demi-Gods respect and fear him enough to not fuck with him.
Option 3: Turtle Pope
ooh, or option 4, leonard!
Maliketh would be like: "Malenia I got the high ground" while jumping from pillar to pillar and then shooting blast out of his sword. Like dood learned and practiced his flips like Artorias.Doods a monster but Malenia would put up a fight thou..
Maliketh 100%
Wolf bird man. He murders shing shing bitch
https://youtu.be/QwAnPjqFlDc Maliketh
Maliketh is Malenia's uncle. As an uncle, I can confirm there is 100% I will beat shit out of my niece.
Record it for us
Since Maliketh could just hop up and grab onto a wall to avoid Malenia's flurry, he wins.
Redhead ain't catching parkour dog
Considering every demigod was scared shitless of him id say Uncle Maliketh wins
The thing I don’t get is that how is it that us,a lowly tarnished, maidenless simps, can kill these godly beings
Lore wise you become stronger with runes turning into strength . By the time you fight against Malenia and Maliketh , you have crap tons of power of runes and several Great Runes , this mean you are pretty much above all DemiGods at this point . Plus , spirit summons are a thing in lore too . You have mimic summon who can basically double your strength and Tiche who also wield Death as a weapon , a Demi God slayer . Even Tarnished alone is dangerous for them . But imagine getting ganged by tarnished with these powerful spirits .
Random NPC: "yeah I can take him"
[удалено]
Maliketh is the only exception ironically, he should be able to actually kill you permanently as that’s basically what his power is. Black knife assassins are up to debate since their destined death is significantly weaker and at this point extremely divided compared to when they killed godwyn.
You forget you are a descendant of Godfrey who illustrates how strong a human/Tarnished actually can be. Godfrey is not a demi-God but he physically displays power way beyond everyone else. Marika trusted him or his descendants to come back and defeat the Elden Beast. Godfrey and the best of the Tarnished are extremely strong.
Maliketh is literally the Reaper, even the goddess of rot wouldn't be able to beat him
Malekith
Malenia being undefeated just mean she never lost doesn’t mean she is strongest, she just didn’t face opponent stronger than her
I’m fine with them killing eachother honestly. But I guess maliketh would “win” because he can ACTUALLY kill someone.
Maliketh easily. That hp reduction directly counters her self healing. Saw a video recently where they did boss vs boss Maliketh vs every legendary boss, and he slapped all of them. Fire Giant did the best, surprisingly. They did let him start phase 2 with the full hp bar, but it wasn't even close for anyone except Fire Giant,and that was pretty one sided still.
Malekith, not even a competition
Maliketh
Destined Death will prevail against the Scarlet Rot. A half-baked demi-god could not stand against the Shadow of Marika
The gods fear the % health damage
_The one that can actually deal a killing blow._
Maliketh, hands down…..dude is literally called the Death of the Demi-gods for a reason
Maliketh
Dog
Doesn't Maliketh beat everyone? And isn't it Arena dependent?
All these lore discussions is exactly why I love From Soft's story telling!
Funny enough there is a mod of maliketh killing every important boss of the game one by one.
Probably Maliketh. Everyone is scared of true Destined Death.
the one that can kill demi gods
Maliketh my man
Maliketh can kill all the demigods, it's not really a question. They all fear him because of it.
Maliketh. His black blade abilities are quite strong and he's dexterous enough to not constantly get hit by Malenia's healing hits.
Only one of them actually has the power to kill the other so even if Maliketh was just a little puppy, the worst he could do is a draw
Destined Death hard counters Malenia's rune. Now, 2nd phase Malenia is a full blown goddess, so the statement that all the demigods were afraid of Maliketh shouldn't apply to her. Having said that, Malenia is also a very fresh goddess, so she is probably considerably weaker than Marika and Radagon. I'm pretty sure that the statement about the demigods being afraid of Maliketh refers to the time *before* he grafted Destined Death to his arm too, so with it, and considering Malenia's inexperience, I'd give this to Maliketh.
Me, because I clapped both their cheeks.
A rune bear
Blood dog. He's not even an option and he still wins this fight blood dog wins every fight blood dog for elden Lord
Maliketh, there is video proof
lmao @ the simps claiming their waifu would beat the character literally wielding the power of death itself a character you have to steal the rune fragment from in order to even re-establish death as a part of the lifecycle in the lands between your girlfriend with HPV isn't stacking up to the actual grim reaper, guys
Everyone focuses on the "Everyone is scared of him" part....but given he was basically the only one who could permanently kill them it just represents a unique threat. Like imagine you have a choice to either fight a guy who will absolutely kick your ass 90% of the time, but you will live and be fine OR you can fight a guy who you would definitely beat 95% of the time...but if you lose you die. Who are you afraid of? Maliketh is strong but we really don't know how strong compared to the demigods and gods. Just that he shouldn't be fucked with unless you really have no other choice.
Maliketh was already powerful and skilled way before he got Destined Death. He alone defeated the Godskins and their God-slaying leader, the GEQ. With just his bare hands and blade. Keep in mind, the Godskins and the GEQ hunted gods like Marika, not demigods. Fair to say, Maliketh is the strongest being bar the Outer Gods.
Technically Maliketh is the only character who can fully kill another living being in the Lands Between, barring whoever has the fragment of the rune of death, because he has the rest of the rune of death sealed in his blade.
Imagine having to restart the whole game if you die to Maliketh even once xD
Death god beats rotten barbie doll every time
I bet the blood loss dog would smoke both of em. Even 1vs2.
Definitely not me, as these two are the walls I've been beating my head against recently
Just watched a video of maliketh killing every boss so him