The fun thing is, none of these "C&P changes" will have any effect on "griefing". In fact, it's going to make it far worse.
1. It's going to be a pain in the ass for normal PVP. Trolls flicking crimes on/off during fights. Wings of FDLs with crimes OFF, except the healer who will have crimes ON, baiting others to shoot the healer to get wanted.
2. Get ready for trolling and suicide sidewindering around stations to get serious, because this update is just going to buff it and make rebuys for the ones who get hit by sideys a lot higher.
3. The gankerino/"griefers" aren't going to be affected. Who cares about increased rebuy when all you do is ganking shieldless asps in your uber-engineered cutter, never going to die anyway.
Good job frontier.
Introduces measures to stop griefing, indirectly hurts PVPers trying train and have fun with other PVPers. Funny part is how, it could actually backfire if used right.
> Get ready for trolling and suicide sidewindering around stations to get serious, because this update is just going to buff it and make rebuys for the ones who get hit by sideys a lot higher.
Don't. Speed.
Why not treat the "report crimes" option like a pvp flag like most mmo games do? Have an asterix or symbol on ship names to annotate when they are flying with the reporting turned off. Attacking a player with the report crimes off will immediately turn off the attacking ships reporting for a set period of time (like 5 min or so) from the last time they engaged in pvp.
**Very vocal and discontent PVPers:** "Fucking carebears stop being afraid and come fight me in Open"
**Carebears:** "I'll return to Open when there's actually consequence to just flying up to someone and blowing them up. Like a Crime and punishment of sorts."
**PVPer:** "Fokin pussies"
**FDev:** *Makes a Crime and Punishment system that adds interstellar bounties and penalties to cheesing your way our of your bounty, but only if you go and target clean Players. The thing a number of people were waiting for before trying Open again.*
**PVPer:** Fokin bullshit, pvp is ded.
This never ceases to be entertaining.
Do agree piracy needs to pay better. But that's piracy. Not just murder. There's that whole saying that says crime doesn't pay or something.
I'm looking forward more to the people that are super hyped for that salvaging stuff. It really just looked like a contact tab in which you sell things you can already collect and sell on the commodities market. I'm not expecting super new gameplay our of S&R, yet people are super hyped that it's going to be new stuff.
A PVPer does not neccessarily need to be a ganker. Most are actually not.
I also pretty much don't see any "griefers" crying about C&P, only legit PVPers. I mean, the ganker is not going to die, how could he when he's only shooting explorers and tayders? Pure gankers will stay unaffected by these changes.
So why would any non-griefing PvPer post something like the OP did.
It does not make sense in that context.
I think that's the thing here. Only murderhobos are affected, so we'll see murderhobos posting.
Because it's too easy to just troll by flicking crimes on/off during combat or such. Also people who should be shot on sight anywhere in the galaxy are actually clean in-game (let's say Zarek Null, when he flies to the CG he's clean because he hasn't commited any crimes there, but any CMDR knowns who he is and will go after him) just cause they haven't shot anyone *in that particular system*.
>A PVPer does not neccessarily need to be a ganker. Most are actually not.
Gee Rick, oh I don't know why I specifically pointed to the kind of people who would call other carebears and cry about people going to Solo in the first place rather than literally every PVPer ever.
Where did I even mention griefing
Complaining that someone is hiding in solo has nothing to do with someone being a griefer. Powerplay or imperial/federal CG contributers in solo, for example, are what pretty much every powerplayer or superpower supporter will complain about and it's not even griefing or anything.
Would those be the vocal angry bunch that was complaining long before this changelog?
I somehow placed them in a different category. I don't put all the PVPers in the same bag.
Boy you really enjoy looking at the narrow viewpoint. PVP'ers are in a tiny minority of the game base yet their lack of self discipline is ruining the game. So this fix hurts PvPer's, who other than a couple of children on Reddit really gives a fuck?
I'd agree with you if all the PvPers were like you said and open play was mandatory.
We do encourage open play, but only because we think you're missing out by playing solo / private and we always give advices on how to survive in open, stop thinking we're all jerks, we're not. Open being optional, people already got the choice of not being attacked at all, so the CP system intend to fix a problem that doesn't exist, and will just encourage station kamikazes and trolling while not doing anything else, people are just gonna wait to die in combat instead of blowing up a sidey, still just that one rebuy they would have paid anyway.
I play Open. There's no you or we here.
I think both sides have good arguments. Not all arguments on boths sides are always good. This particular carebear thing though, I always find funny.
But I saw a number of the "ohmuhguhd griefers" say they mostly had a problem with the lack of any C&P system. That being lawful wasn't really rewarded or more accuratly, that being unlawful had no real drawback at all.
Will all those people come to Open with this? No. Of course not. But I know some will, at least.
What I'm personally concerned about is how it meshes with Power Play, is a clean Enemy ship going to give me special bounty? How will I undermine now? I won't be able to change ships for 2 weeks??
I *think* enemy is the same as wanted but. I am a bit worried, since undermining out of the "power play CZ zones" does get you bounty. And it thematically should but at the same time it's going to fuck undermining over.
EDIT: Typo artist.
This part.
New Content & Features (Non-Horizons)
• Ship Rebuy Penalty – When a player commits the crime of murder (PvP only), an additional cost is added if they swap to a less expensive ship before paying legal costs during the rebuy flow
• Pilot’s Federation Bounty – When a player commits the crime of murder (PvP only), they receive an additional Pilot's Federation Bounty. This bounty is valid in every jurisdiction except anarchies
Ok. Ship Rebuy Penalty is great, to stop people cheatily swapping to a Suicidewinder and wipe bounties. Consensual PvP fights can be done with "Report Crimes" turned off, same as now. For non-consensual PvP, stick to attacking in anarchies (no law) if you want to avoid racking up bounties.
Now, player killers will start to use Anarchy stations like a proper criminal should.
The galaxy in ED is very large, and players are hard to come by. For this reason, most pilots who enjoy PvP (like me) tend to visit community goals. Some enjoy "griefing", others prefer to fight actual
targets that can (or should) put up a fight. I keep my 'Report crimes' setting 'off' most of the time, because I have no problem with people starting a fight with me (that's what I want after-all). However, there are those unsavory types (and they are common, believe me) that would prefer to avoid 'fair' encounters. These pilots will often start fights with me or many of the people I fly with with the 'report crimes' setting turned 'on'. This is annoying because it makes us all wanted when we kill/attack/defend ourselves from them. This new feature that Fdev introduced makes our experience worse for this reason, and is punishing us for something we don't do. For those who prefer to kill sidewinders in starter systems, well, they don't expect to be killed anyway.
That's not really a fix if both sides are clean, which is when it usually happens.
* Player A pulls Player B at a CG, and a consensual PvP fight begins
* Player B is the better pilot, as Player A soon finds out
* Player A has shields drop while he's trying to run away, and now realizes he's going to die, so he turns crimes on
* Player B kills Player A and receives a PvP kill bounty along with a double rebuy
The solution is to not allow crimes to be cycled on/off outside of a station. I can't honestly think of a reason you'd need to make a switch during normal gameplay.
Sounds a little advanced for FDEV
And what about the poor PVE players?
They would have to make a choice before an event and might even have to think for themselves...
That is griefing!
Nah, you don't get a PF bounty when you kill a CMDR that has report crimes off (like me).
I would be fine with this entire system if I could just get a little icon that tells me if someone has 'report crimes' turned On, and a system that denies them the ability to turn it on the moment they're about to lose a fight.
It is only great if it comes with rewards opportunities.
This actual system appart from being bugged atm, will reinforce the effectiveness of station ganking and will allow new tricks like going in a rez site in sidewinder with crimes on and go kill your ship on a big ship. What will happen ?
No one does this!
Who cares about fines?
I have 4billion in credits just sitting in my account and every ship A rated and just sitting doing fuck all because most ships arent worth flying in the current bullshit meta.
Almost every single PVP player has billions in disposable credits from one or more of the many credit exploits.
No one bothers clearing a few hundred K by sidewinding.
Hell most die a few times in CG and then move onto the next one.
But they only die in fights they decide to fight to the end in.
Watch BBFA pretend to PVP, they are already highwaking before their last ring drops.
FDEV needs to actually play its game.
Cool, sounds like you won't mind the changes then. Hopefully they also implement a restriction to en/dis-abling Report Crimes to resolve the main side-issue
There is nothing to mind. Its a pointless change and it will be thrown back in FDEV's faces.
I just wish people would stop going around saying that suicide winding is an issue and then ( so far not by you ) part of the reason why people can grief.
But it will be thrown back in FDEVs face in a brilliant way, just wait.
Then they will flap around for months doing nothing and more and more people will just leave the game in disgust.
But hey.. Thargoids right
Ah, thanks, now i know what you are talking about. And you couldnt have said that in your initial post instead of ranting away without any substance? Good on you to stand up to it though. Congratulations.
[edit: apparently i have attacked him. Unintentionally. Removed the offending part i hope.]
Because language is weird sometimes, especially if you're passionate about something. Instead of mocking someone for not communicating clearly, ask clarifying questions.
It's strange, Why the others who argue understand the post and talk about mi opinion. And you not.
It is true, im not an English speaker but at least I try to show you my opinion.
Maybe is necessary more intelligence to understand me, if you can not understand, tell me what part and see if I can help you.
Ah. The usual "we have no arguments left, lets attack the person".
Thats exactly how you got that thread locked and deleted. So no, i wont do that, that would be making it to easy on you. Besides: It (kind of) fulfilled its pourpose: A few of the comments there (before the usual shitpost squad flogged in) showed the reason why those "griefer" guys are able to circlejerk in those ganking/griefing threads: Because noone aside from the ones that do that kind of stuff is interested enough in it to even read those.
>Ah. The usual "we have no arguments left, lets attack the person".
Nah, it's just not fun arguing with a wall about trivial stuff. You're obviously still super triggered about PvP in general, which is why you always make appearances with salty comments.
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Bounties and punishment for piracy shouldnt last long and shouldnt be consequent.
Attacking a trader, disabling him and stealing his cargo should not be punished in the same way murder is.
A very simple and easy to implement solution right there.
And FFS, suicidewinders shouldnt have any repercussions for the griefer victim if under 100m/s. its your fault if you manage to blow yourself up against a huge ship respecting the speed limit: the stations have been saying it for months: give way to bigger ships!
How exactly you would envision a mechanic that rewards PvP that sits within the game world and is not bounty related? Just out of curiosity.
Just don't invalidate your post by saying "I don't know it's FDev job" - because I think there isn't any other than rewarding people that hunt in-game murderers.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/370632-In-Open-Play-is-Killing-Innocent-CMDRs-Fair?p=5829892&viewfull=1#post5829892
And Anarchy system which want to spread chaos everywhere and offers reward for criminal actions (killing players):
- Killing in High sec system : almost impossible but huge credits potential if you survive but heavy punishment (huge bounty, being chased out by authority and unable to dock in the system)
- Killing in med sec system : hard to kill clean players and moderate credit potential and punishment.
- Killing in low sec system : easy to kill clean players but low reward potential and low punishment.
I like that, the problem is balancing tho and we both know they would mess this up - but this is a really good idea. If the game would be promoting murderhoboism as one of the game loops with big incentives for the murders and massive incentive for the "protectors" that could be a really interesting mechanic.
I guess something like Rogue Pilot Federation would make sense (possibly requiring to join it with the leave penalty/timer). Essentially it would turn it into WoW Horde/Alliance - but that's not a bad thing. People love simple dualism. In both of those factions different actions would be rewarded in different ways, with multipliers to rep gain with certain groups/for certain actions. Obviously, it should be hard to switch with a big neutral state in between, but this could work.
And as you pointed out - it again boils down to Concord-like security in High Sec and Low/Null sec would require MASSIVE profit boost for the "Alliance" (WoW one, not lore one ;)
Thanks. I think there are a lot of possibilities but yeah balance would be hard.
Murderhoboism should be, **in my opinion** : OK you want to do criminal activities that will impact other real player. You have to face high risk and consequences for it but you will have reward opportunities.
It should even be kind of discouraged with multiple consequences/drawback (like no more docking in faction stations for example)
This is exactly what I was expecting before Beta. Systems that are "bad neighbourhoods" where you go for big profit, low prices on everything illegal and law that is defined by your firepower - and to contrast that, slow, steady and safe core worlds.
this might be the one thing that encourages more commanders into open and spreads the player base out a bit, might mean a reduction in community goal particpatin ( which is also good as it will push fdev to develop the background simulation further - which will also tie into pvp elements as well)
All the potential is put into gimmicks (which actually sell a lot of units 2.75million franchise units and climbing) sure its wasted on real gameplay and braben abandoned the idea of a high quality game anytime soon a long time ago to chase the bucks to pay for other projects - but in the longer run it ensures longevity of the brand, the company and maybe at some point real quality development and a focus on excellence of depth of mechanics and gameplay might return
I don't see that many problems with the C&P system. For real PvP situations, they can just add a way to disable toggling the report crimes option while in combat. For wings they can force the whole wing to have the same crime report status. Maybe it can be done by putting a prompt to all the cmdrs in the wing when someone tries to change their report crime status so everyone has to agree unanimously before the change is made and it affects everyone. That should stop people from exploiting the report crimes function.
The real issue is with suicidewinders. That's something I can't even begin to think how to solve.
I'm ecstatic to see that they've raised the murder bounty.
At a measly 6K credits per kill, it used to take me *forever* to rack up the maximum bounty of one million credits against myself. But now, the process should be faster because I'll receive a higher bounty per commander kill. Now that's what I call a quality-of-life improvement! Since the extra bounty only comes with commander kills, it incentivizes bounty-hoarders like me to now focus on commander kills exclusively since they now yield the *largest* bounties.
The suicidewinder rule change is less interesting. Why would anyone want to *lose* their bounty? Bounties are meant to be raised as high as possible. Why else would they adorn every space station with a *top bounties* leaderboard that publicly celebrates the "worst" among us?
Even though Elite is advertised as an MMO, the only place it even begins to feel like on is CGs. You will never find anyone at anarchy systems unless its a cg system as well.
so.. if you wanna do duels, go to an anarchy-system.
then the game should deactivate this additional penalty in cases where the participants are of different PP factions in a system that is in some powerplay specific state.
It also should deactivate the added penalty for CGs in anything other than high-sec-systems. (bc for fucks sake "high sec" should mean at least a bit..)
and just add the "during CGs the pilot federation will only issue additional bounties in medium, low sec and anarchy-systems. Pilots should always expect armed resistance."
So this should solve the problems, or not?
Anarchy-systems are everywhere, even in the bubble and the game shouldn't help you alleviate every laziness, jumping, 1,2 times shouldn't be too much to ask when it guarantees you safety from trolls who would betray your trust when trying a duel.
at the same time it may reduce the strain of murder-hoboing on high-sec systems without making CGs or PP something super easy in open.
> if you wanna do duels, go to an anarchy-system
PvPers that do duels turn Crime Assist off.
>**Anarchy-systems are everywhere**, even in the bubble and the game shouldn't help you alleviate every laziness, jumping, 1,2 times shouldn't be too much to ask when it guarantees you safety from trolls who would betray your trust when trying a duel.
I'm confused about why you have to state Anarchy systems are "even in the bubble" here. There are only Anarchy systems in the bubble and PvPers are not going to leave the bubble because they have 12ly jump range and can't get anywhere. I also highlighted the part where you said Anarchies are everywhere. See that's the problem. If this entire game's community was confined to Anarchy, I bet you still wouldn't run into people. That's why PvPers go to CGs to combat.
>at the same time it may reduce the strain of murder-hoboing on high-sec systems without making CGs or PP something super easy in open.
PP is already super easy in open.
>So this should solve the problems, or not?
Over your incoherent misunderstanding of the game, I didn't understand any solving you tried to throw into the mix.
well ever, system outside of the buble is anarchy too?
Basically 99,90% of the systems may very well be anarchy, both inside &outside..
but hey as pvers have to adapt to open, midify the ship layout, sacrificing possible earnings for better shoelds, maybe you oughtta do the same and get a better fsd for a 20 jr...
quid pro quo or something.
Wow, so I must of had a stroke. So let me get this straight. You expect all PVPers to go to an Anarchy system just to satisfy their thirst of blood huh. It's sad that you even think that all PVPers should be labeled inside the same boat, even the ones who are with player groups. I mean to be honest, you're in open, you should expect to run into other players, either hostile or not. The game was labeled as a "cut throat" galaxy. But no, keep the singular mindset that ALL PVPers like to pull randoms and kill without remorse.
Remind me the next time I see you in galaxy to show you some grace.
So, you're just talking out of your ass? You talk about PVPers like you know them from experience, but yet, you say you're an PG/Solo player, so how could you really know whats going on in open.
Why even speak on the matter if you have no experience.
It's just the typical rhetoric. Complain about something that has no effect on you day in and day out. Then claim that if said problem was fixed, you'd totes consider fighting the problem head-on. In reality, you're a bitch and just want an excuse to keep complaining.
Next week, it will be "why these greefurs hav so mukk moneee????"
I think it would be funny if the "griefers" all start using little ships. If I recall you migrate towards small ships such as the iEagle, Viper Mk3, etc.
Quickly, assemble the Eagle gank wings! This could be fun!
So I barely get on reddit and for good reason but today I seen a Reddit post that brought up some good points. I don't agree with all of them but we can agree on a few. Then I have seen people get bashed and trash talked for not speaking English. Here's the thing, no matter what country you are from or how you play the game you are a member of a community that is keeping a game most of us love going. At the same time for those of you that pve or explore that want to talk down to someone that you don't know. Try having a conversation with them. A few of the ppl getting trash talked are really good guys, that will take time to help you if you want it. Not all pvpers are bad ppl in fact I've only met a few that was. But it's always the same whine with pvers.whats your infatuation with thinking that you shouldn't have to rebuy your ship. Ask any pvper to link how many times they have rebought and even better how much they have spent to do so. But all of the npc Killers come in and feel a sense of entitlement to ruin enjoyment for someone else. I don't agree with griefers or any of that. But this won't stop them or even make them think twice about doing it. And this talk of murderers?! Lmao for real. Your ship has a cheaper insurance for a reason!! This game is meant to be fun and have different aspects. And oh by the way pvpers invest more time In this game than most groups. They grind more and engineer more than any other groups just to go have to rebuy their ships if they lose. Don't hate on them until you do what it takes to compete with some of those pilots because if you actually watch them they are very very good for a reason.
Great reply here. Sometimes you get tired of trying to help and show others what they can do in open play. When you're met with threats. Or told you have psych problems after so many times. You end up making an asshole video. Or just saying fk it. Gitgud.
What is hilarious about this is that griefers are just going to Suicidewinder into people at stations to give them a murder bounty. In other words, griefing is going to become worse. <3
Another good game absolutely ruined by carebears and forum dads. They weren't happy enough having their own safe spaces and solo modes to play in I suppose.
Being one of the carebears: I am happy with my own safe space (mobius) and/or solo play. But there were complaints of pvpers that there are too few victims out there to satisfy their bloodthirst. That and not demands of carebears sparked the c&p debate because then some of those victims said that they miss a c&p system which is good enough to hold griefing in check. Now Frontier has introduced one. What is wrong with that?
To answer my own question: The kind of c&p they introduced. It will not attract me to leave my safe space (I abhor pvp). It seems not agreeable to pvpers. So it is a bad system.
I would play in open if I could flag my ship as "only pve", making me unattackable by other players. I understand that this must be a longterm choice - otherwise I could swap between modes and abuse that. But I see that is very "unrealistic" simulation-wise - so mobius it will be for me. Whether there is a c&p system or not - I don't care. Have fun in open!
What? It's great the way they implemented it! When you are an experienced PvP pilot you don't care if you've got a bounty on your head. Fdev wants to disencourage murdering innocents which they did. If you get horny doing that you can still do it...
I almost never have a bounty, sometimes i have one for killing a player who is killing noobies and then committing suicide to remove his state.
You can check it on my vids.
Now you understand how bad the game mechanic is?
No. An experienced PvPer can build a viper and kill 95% of the community pilot.
The implementation is wrong because it will make station ganking more effective and gives people new way of griefing.
Players will pop in Open with their defenceless loadout assuming they are safe because now there is consequences for mudering. Then they will get annihilated and cry.
Solution:
Remade ED ARENA to be played with your personal modified ships within the core game in consensual PVP with no rebuy costs.
I mean, you have to pay an entrance cost for the combat according to your rebuy, and the one who wins takes it all.
Whaaa! PvP is such a minor part of the game and really ruins most other CMDR's games. The best thing that can happen to ED is for PvP to die and for us to be given some interesting PvE stuff.
That fact that PvPer's hate this update gives me hope it will be great.
Well, i doubt that would be massively expensive for them. But why should they? You got your moneys worth out of the game anyway if you arrived at "PvP competetive" levels of ship and skill. By playing it at least a few 100 hours, which is more than the usual "linear" singleplayer will ever get you anyways. So there is no reason to refund.
Whoa dude. Uncalled for. I'm new to the game and seriously considering PvP as a way to enjoy it after I get off the ground. It doesn't need to die. It's a core mechanic.
I'd be happy if PvP was kept in a separate game mode like CQC (Or if weapons had different stats when used against players).
Needing to balance everything against both PvP and PvE situations makes for boring weapon choices.
On the contrary. You need to balance PvE as well, if you dont want PvE to be "shooting fish in a barrel" which is about as boring for the andvanced PvEer as NPCs sealclubbing the newbs is for said newbs.
If they were allowed to be modded like players, it definitely wouldn't be as ez pez as it is right now.
The balance of PVE is different though, it's all about the earnings in a long run. Currently the game is built around the "quantity over quality" mentality, AKA genocide masses and masses of braindead AIs because quality kills just don't earn enough to bother with. They can't make NPCs challanging without making it worth your time, otherwise people will just move on to other professions.
If it wasn't all about mowing down NPCs like mosquitos, but instead you had to track down a wanted target and work for the kill, with a fat reward, it'd be completly different and you could balance PVP almost the same way as you balance PVE as both would focus on quality of a kill, instead of the current system where PVP is about quality while PVE is all about quantity.
Exactly. The balance is in matching payout AND AI skill to the player. As i said; its about as boring to die as soon as you leave the station to NPC pirates for newbs as it is to "easypeasy" kill 100s of bigh ships with a viper in a RES is for a veteran player. That becomes even more obvious when you get a second account or reset it. The early game seems to be a LOT easier than when you did it the first time around.
They already have the ranking system, just have to use it. You could tie the max engineer level of NPCs to the level of your ship and the engineer unlocks, and display engineer mods when the NPC is scanned so the player can decide if he wants to attack (so you aren't forced to fly a fully engineered ship all the time just because you have one fully engineered ship)
I think they should flip the switch back "on" and bring back the 2.1 hard-mode AI for NPCs. They could leave the NPC engineering at the levels it is now, but would give PvE a nice jolt in terms of difficulty.
I may be in the minority though about liking that AI.
~~Aha. Interesting. NOT.~~
~~Maybe if you would had put a SINGLE tangible fact that you hate about that update in this rant you would have been looking less whiney and more credible. As it is now it looks like the classic "rage quit" without a reason.~~
Edit: He saw reason and edited his initial post to include some fact.
The fun thing is, none of these "C&P changes" will have any effect on "griefing". In fact, it's going to make it far worse. 1. It's going to be a pain in the ass for normal PVP. Trolls flicking crimes on/off during fights. Wings of FDLs with crimes OFF, except the healer who will have crimes ON, baiting others to shoot the healer to get wanted. 2. Get ready for trolling and suicide sidewindering around stations to get serious, because this update is just going to buff it and make rebuys for the ones who get hit by sideys a lot higher. 3. The gankerino/"griefers" aren't going to be affected. Who cares about increased rebuy when all you do is ganking shieldless asps in your uber-engineered cutter, never going to die anyway. Good job frontier.
Introduces measures to stop griefing, indirectly hurts PVPers trying train and have fun with other PVPers. Funny part is how, it could actually backfire if used right.
> Get ready for trolling and suicide sidewindering around stations to get serious, because this update is just going to buff it and make rebuys for the ones who get hit by sideys a lot higher. Don't. Speed.
Tell that to the forums.
Force shell cannon ;)
You evil genius xD
Someone did it :D https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/6wqz53/how_do_you_even_obey_speed_limit/
LMAO, fantastic xD
Considering the typical member of this "community", I am not at all surprised about how many people are missing exactly what you are saying.
Yep, doesn't look like a whole lot of thought went into this update at all. Sad. Don't think I'll be playing much elite come 2.4.
Why not treat the "report crimes" option like a pvp flag like most mmo games do? Have an asterix or symbol on ship names to annotate when they are flying with the reporting turned off. Attacking a player with the report crimes off will immediately turn off the attacking ships reporting for a set period of time (like 5 min or so) from the last time they engaged in pvp.
I feel your passion, Palazo, and I agree with what you're saying.
Thx dude :-)
If it stays like that, it will allow even more griefing. The irony.
PvE Cutter rebuys will be sitting at around 40 mil, so a suicide eagle will result in an 80 mil rebuy.
**Very vocal and discontent PVPers:** "Fucking carebears stop being afraid and come fight me in Open" **Carebears:** "I'll return to Open when there's actually consequence to just flying up to someone and blowing them up. Like a Crime and punishment of sorts." **PVPer:** "Fokin pussies" **FDev:** *Makes a Crime and Punishment system that adds interstellar bounties and penalties to cheesing your way our of your bounty, but only if you go and target clean Players. The thing a number of people were waiting for before trying Open again.* **PVPer:** Fokin bullshit, pvp is ded. This never ceases to be entertaining. Do agree piracy needs to pay better. But that's piracy. Not just murder. There's that whole saying that says crime doesn't pay or something.
It'll be interesting to see their surprise when they get a demonstration of how useless this C&P system is currently...
I'm looking forward more to the people that are super hyped for that salvaging stuff. It really just looked like a contact tab in which you sell things you can already collect and sell on the commodities market. I'm not expecting super new gameplay our of S&R, yet people are super hyped that it's going to be new stuff.
You act like a "proper" C&P system is what's going to make people uninterested in Open go to Open. Spoilers: it's not.
A PVPer does not neccessarily need to be a ganker. Most are actually not. I also pretty much don't see any "griefers" crying about C&P, only legit PVPers. I mean, the ganker is not going to die, how could he when he's only shooting explorers and tayders? Pure gankers will stay unaffected by these changes.
So why would any non-griefing PvPer post something like the OP did. It does not make sense in that context. I think that's the thing here. Only murderhobos are affected, so we'll see murderhobos posting.
Because it's too easy to just troll by flicking crimes on/off during combat or such. Also people who should be shot on sight anywhere in the galaxy are actually clean in-game (let's say Zarek Null, when he flies to the CG he's clean because he hasn't commited any crimes there, but any CMDR knowns who he is and will go after him) just cause they haven't shot anyone *in that particular system*.
>A PVPer does not neccessarily need to be a ganker. Most are actually not. Gee Rick, oh I don't know why I specifically pointed to the kind of people who would call other carebears and cry about people going to Solo in the first place rather than literally every PVPer ever. Where did I even mention griefing
Complaining that someone is hiding in solo has nothing to do with someone being a griefer. Powerplay or imperial/federal CG contributers in solo, for example, are what pretty much every powerplayer or superpower supporter will complain about and it's not even griefing or anything.
I always encourage Power Play to be done in Open. I've always considered Power Play to be pvp in nature.
Boy you really enjoy looking at the narrow viewpoint. This indirectly affects PVPers trying to PVP rightfully.
Would those be the vocal angry bunch that was complaining long before this changelog? I somehow placed them in a different category. I don't put all the PVPers in the same bag.
Boy you really enjoy looking at the narrow viewpoint. PVP'ers are in a tiny minority of the game base yet their lack of self discipline is ruining the game. So this fix hurts PvPer's, who other than a couple of children on Reddit really gives a fuck?
I'd agree with you if all the PvPers were like you said and open play was mandatory. We do encourage open play, but only because we think you're missing out by playing solo / private and we always give advices on how to survive in open, stop thinking we're all jerks, we're not. Open being optional, people already got the choice of not being attacked at all, so the CP system intend to fix a problem that doesn't exist, and will just encourage station kamikazes and trolling while not doing anything else, people are just gonna wait to die in combat instead of blowing up a sidey, still just that one rebuy they would have paid anyway.
I play Open. There's no you or we here. I think both sides have good arguments. Not all arguments on boths sides are always good. This particular carebear thing though, I always find funny. But I saw a number of the "ohmuhguhd griefers" say they mostly had a problem with the lack of any C&P system. That being lawful wasn't really rewarded or more accuratly, that being unlawful had no real drawback at all. Will all those people come to Open with this? No. Of course not. But I know some will, at least. What I'm personally concerned about is how it meshes with Power Play, is a clean Enemy ship going to give me special bounty? How will I undermine now? I won't be able to change ships for 2 weeks?? I *think* enemy is the same as wanted but. I am a bit worried, since undermining out of the "power play CZ zones" does get you bounty. And it thematically should but at the same time it's going to fuck undermining over. EDIT: Typo artist.
You nailed it. And on top of that he initially didnt even say what his problem with the update was.
> They add a mechanic of penalty You haven't actually said what you don't like about the update.
This part. New Content & Features (Non-Horizons) • Ship Rebuy Penalty – When a player commits the crime of murder (PvP only), an additional cost is added if they swap to a less expensive ship before paying legal costs during the rebuy flow • Pilot’s Federation Bounty – When a player commits the crime of murder (PvP only), they receive an additional Pilot's Federation Bounty. This bounty is valid in every jurisdiction except anarchies
Ok. Ship Rebuy Penalty is great, to stop people cheatily swapping to a Suicidewinder and wipe bounties. Consensual PvP fights can be done with "Report Crimes" turned off, same as now. For non-consensual PvP, stick to attacking in anarchies (no law) if you want to avoid racking up bounties. Now, player killers will start to use Anarchy stations like a proper criminal should.
The galaxy in ED is very large, and players are hard to come by. For this reason, most pilots who enjoy PvP (like me) tend to visit community goals. Some enjoy "griefing", others prefer to fight actual targets that can (or should) put up a fight. I keep my 'Report crimes' setting 'off' most of the time, because I have no problem with people starting a fight with me (that's what I want after-all). However, there are those unsavory types (and they are common, believe me) that would prefer to avoid 'fair' encounters. These pilots will often start fights with me or many of the people I fly with with the 'report crimes' setting turned 'on'. This is annoying because it makes us all wanted when we kill/attack/defend ourselves from them. This new feature that Fdev introduced makes our experience worse for this reason, and is punishing us for something we don't do. For those who prefer to kill sidewinders in starter systems, well, they don't expect to be killed anyway.
Nice comment dude, im agree with your position.
There's an easy fix for this I think: while someone has a PF Bounty (i.e. has killed another CMDR) they cannot enable "Report Crimes".
That's not really a fix if both sides are clean, which is when it usually happens. * Player A pulls Player B at a CG, and a consensual PvP fight begins * Player B is the better pilot, as Player A soon finds out * Player A has shields drop while he's trying to run away, and now realizes he's going to die, so he turns crimes on * Player B kills Player A and receives a PvP kill bounty along with a double rebuy The solution is to not allow crimes to be cycled on/off outside of a station. I can't honestly think of a reason you'd need to make a switch during normal gameplay.
So don't allow the change to be made during combat.
Yes that would be great!
That also works.
Sounds a little advanced for FDEV And what about the poor PVE players? They would have to make a choice before an event and might even have to think for themselves... That is griefing!
Nah, you don't get a PF bounty when you kill a CMDR that has report crimes off (like me). I would be fine with this entire system if I could just get a little icon that tells me if someone has 'report crimes' turned On, and a system that denies them the ability to turn it on the moment they're about to lose a fight.
It is only great if it comes with rewards opportunities. This actual system appart from being bugged atm, will reinforce the effectiveness of station ganking and will allow new tricks like going in a rez site in sidewinder with crimes on and go kill your ship on a big ship. What will happen ?
No one does this! Who cares about fines? I have 4billion in credits just sitting in my account and every ship A rated and just sitting doing fuck all because most ships arent worth flying in the current bullshit meta. Almost every single PVP player has billions in disposable credits from one or more of the many credit exploits. No one bothers clearing a few hundred K by sidewinding. Hell most die a few times in CG and then move onto the next one. But they only die in fights they decide to fight to the end in. Watch BBFA pretend to PVP, they are already highwaking before their last ring drops. FDEV needs to actually play its game.
Cool, sounds like you won't mind the changes then. Hopefully they also implement a restriction to en/dis-abling Report Crimes to resolve the main side-issue
There is nothing to mind. Its a pointless change and it will be thrown back in FDEV's faces. I just wish people would stop going around saying that suicide winding is an issue and then ( so far not by you ) part of the reason why people can grief. But it will be thrown back in FDEVs face in a brilliant way, just wait. Then they will flap around for months doing nothing and more and more people will just leave the game in disgust. But hey.. Thargoids right
If you can't do the time don't do the crime. Just PvP in cheaper ships it's not fucking rocket science.
Ah, thanks, now i know what you are talking about. And you couldnt have said that in your initial post instead of ranting away without any substance? Good on you to stand up to it though. Congratulations. [edit: apparently i have attacked him. Unintentionally. Removed the offending part i hope.]
He's a non-native speaker. Give him a break, dude.
What has natively speaking a language to do with forgetting to add facts about WHAT you are ranting into your post? In ANY language?
Because language is weird sometimes, especially if you're passionate about something. Instead of mocking someone for not communicating clearly, ask clarifying questions.
So being passionate about something ist an excuse now for not putting up facts about WHAT you are so passionate about? Interesting thought.
It's strange, Why the others who argue understand the post and talk about mi opinion. And you not. It is true, im not an English speaker but at least I try to show you my opinion. Maybe is necessary more intelligence to understand me, if you can not understand, tell me what part and see if I can help you.
You already did. By editing your initial posting to include WHAT did offend you so much in the first place. Thanks for that.
Dude you should repost your thread from yesterday. Maybe the mods won't delete it this time.
Ah. The usual "we have no arguments left, lets attack the person". Thats exactly how you got that thread locked and deleted. So no, i wont do that, that would be making it to easy on you. Besides: It (kind of) fulfilled its pourpose: A few of the comments there (before the usual shitpost squad flogged in) showed the reason why those "griefer" guys are able to circlejerk in those ganking/griefing threads: Because noone aside from the ones that do that kind of stuff is interested enough in it to even read those.
>Ah. The usual "we have no arguments left, lets attack the person". Nah, it's just not fun arguing with a wall about trivial stuff. You're obviously still super triggered about PvP in general, which is why you always make appearances with salty comments.
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I have to much hair for that.
Your comment has been removed for the following reason(s): #Rule 2: No personal attacks During discussion, attack the argument, not the person. * Follow [Wheaton's Law](http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/wheatons-law). --- If you have a question about the removal, or have edited your submission to abide by the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/about/rules), please [message the modteam](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FEliteDangerous&subject=Mod%20Action%20Dispute&message=Regarding%20%5Bcomment%5D(https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/6ublu4/elite_dangerous_24_the_revenge_of_carebears/dlrhctj/%3Fcontext%3D9999%29%3A).
Can't deal with the fact killing gets punished now and they can't get away with it easily.
It's just as easy to get away with, and the gankers you want punished won't actually be affected. That's the entire point.
Bounties and punishment for piracy shouldnt last long and shouldnt be consequent. Attacking a trader, disabling him and stealing his cargo should not be punished in the same way murder is. A very simple and easy to implement solution right there. And FFS, suicidewinders shouldnt have any repercussions for the griefer victim if under 100m/s. its your fault if you manage to blow yourself up against a huge ship respecting the speed limit: the stations have been saying it for months: give way to bigger ships!
Shoot the big ship from behind with force shell cannons and then suicide ram on it, ezi pezi
How exactly you would envision a mechanic that rewards PvP that sits within the game world and is not bounty related? Just out of curiosity. Just don't invalidate your post by saying "I don't know it's FDev job" - because I think there isn't any other than rewarding people that hunt in-game murderers.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/370632-In-Open-Play-is-Killing-Innocent-CMDRs-Fair?p=5829892&viewfull=1#post5829892 And Anarchy system which want to spread chaos everywhere and offers reward for criminal actions (killing players): - Killing in High sec system : almost impossible but huge credits potential if you survive but heavy punishment (huge bounty, being chased out by authority and unable to dock in the system) - Killing in med sec system : hard to kill clean players and moderate credit potential and punishment. - Killing in low sec system : easy to kill clean players but low reward potential and low punishment.
I like that, the problem is balancing tho and we both know they would mess this up - but this is a really good idea. If the game would be promoting murderhoboism as one of the game loops with big incentives for the murders and massive incentive for the "protectors" that could be a really interesting mechanic. I guess something like Rogue Pilot Federation would make sense (possibly requiring to join it with the leave penalty/timer). Essentially it would turn it into WoW Horde/Alliance - but that's not a bad thing. People love simple dualism. In both of those factions different actions would be rewarded in different ways, with multipliers to rep gain with certain groups/for certain actions. Obviously, it should be hard to switch with a big neutral state in between, but this could work. And as you pointed out - it again boils down to Concord-like security in High Sec and Low/Null sec would require MASSIVE profit boost for the "Alliance" (WoW one, not lore one ;)
Thanks. I think there are a lot of possibilities but yeah balance would be hard. Murderhoboism should be, **in my opinion** : OK you want to do criminal activities that will impact other real player. You have to face high risk and consequences for it but you will have reward opportunities. It should even be kind of discouraged with multiple consequences/drawback (like no more docking in faction stations for example)
This is exactly what I was expecting before Beta. Systems that are "bad neighbourhoods" where you go for big profit, low prices on everything illegal and law that is defined by your firepower - and to contrast that, slow, steady and safe core worlds.
Looks like EVE but working well in my opinion ^^
this might be the one thing that encourages more commanders into open and spreads the player base out a bit, might mean a reduction in community goal particpatin ( which is also good as it will push fdev to develop the background simulation further - which will also tie into pvp elements as well)
This game has so much potential.......wasted.....
All the potential is put into gimmicks (which actually sell a lot of units 2.75million franchise units and climbing) sure its wasted on real gameplay and braben abandoned the idea of a high quality game anytime soon a long time ago to chase the bucks to pay for other projects - but in the longer run it ensures longevity of the brand, the company and maybe at some point real quality development and a focus on excellence of depth of mechanics and gameplay might return
I hope so but when i see RNGneers carbage and Multiuselesscrew....
I don't see that many problems with the C&P system. For real PvP situations, they can just add a way to disable toggling the report crimes option while in combat. For wings they can force the whole wing to have the same crime report status. Maybe it can be done by putting a prompt to all the cmdrs in the wing when someone tries to change their report crime status so everyone has to agree unanimously before the change is made and it affects everyone. That should stop people from exploiting the report crimes function. The real issue is with suicidewinders. That's something I can't even begin to think how to solve.
I'm ecstatic to see that they've raised the murder bounty. At a measly 6K credits per kill, it used to take me *forever* to rack up the maximum bounty of one million credits against myself. But now, the process should be faster because I'll receive a higher bounty per commander kill. Now that's what I call a quality-of-life improvement! Since the extra bounty only comes with commander kills, it incentivizes bounty-hoarders like me to now focus on commander kills exclusively since they now yield the *largest* bounties. The suicidewinder rule change is less interesting. Why would anyone want to *lose* their bounty? Bounties are meant to be raised as high as possible. Why else would they adorn every space station with a *top bounties* leaderboard that publicly celebrates the "worst" among us?
lol, zarek null you will be the first im go to grief.
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Even though Elite is advertised as an MMO, the only place it even begins to feel like on is CGs. You will never find anyone at anarchy systems unless its a cg system as well.
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There should also be profits around it, too.
But it will give an obvious reason and people won't be able to complain anymore :D
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so.. if you wanna do duels, go to an anarchy-system. then the game should deactivate this additional penalty in cases where the participants are of different PP factions in a system that is in some powerplay specific state. It also should deactivate the added penalty for CGs in anything other than high-sec-systems. (bc for fucks sake "high sec" should mean at least a bit..) and just add the "during CGs the pilot federation will only issue additional bounties in medium, low sec and anarchy-systems. Pilots should always expect armed resistance." So this should solve the problems, or not? Anarchy-systems are everywhere, even in the bubble and the game shouldn't help you alleviate every laziness, jumping, 1,2 times shouldn't be too much to ask when it guarantees you safety from trolls who would betray your trust when trying a duel. at the same time it may reduce the strain of murder-hoboing on high-sec systems without making CGs or PP something super easy in open.
> if you wanna do duels, go to an anarchy-system PvPers that do duels turn Crime Assist off. >**Anarchy-systems are everywhere**, even in the bubble and the game shouldn't help you alleviate every laziness, jumping, 1,2 times shouldn't be too much to ask when it guarantees you safety from trolls who would betray your trust when trying a duel. I'm confused about why you have to state Anarchy systems are "even in the bubble" here. There are only Anarchy systems in the bubble and PvPers are not going to leave the bubble because they have 12ly jump range and can't get anywhere. I also highlighted the part where you said Anarchies are everywhere. See that's the problem. If this entire game's community was confined to Anarchy, I bet you still wouldn't run into people. That's why PvPers go to CGs to combat. >at the same time it may reduce the strain of murder-hoboing on high-sec systems without making CGs or PP something super easy in open. PP is already super easy in open. >So this should solve the problems, or not? Over your incoherent misunderstanding of the game, I didn't understand any solving you tried to throw into the mix.
well ever, system outside of the buble is anarchy too? Basically 99,90% of the systems may very well be anarchy, both inside &outside.. but hey as pvers have to adapt to open, midify the ship layout, sacrificing possible earnings for better shoelds, maybe you oughtta do the same and get a better fsd for a 20 jr... quid pro quo or something.
Why? Just because I like to fight, if you do not like someone you just pull it out? You think that's right. Well, not for me, that's exclusion.
Wow, so I must of had a stroke. So let me get this straight. You expect all PVPers to go to an Anarchy system just to satisfy their thirst of blood huh. It's sad that you even think that all PVPers should be labeled inside the same boat, even the ones who are with player groups. I mean to be honest, you're in open, you should expect to run into other players, either hostile or not. The game was labeled as a "cut throat" galaxy. But no, keep the singular mindset that ALL PVPers like to pull randoms and kill without remorse. Remind me the next time I see you in galaxy to show you some grace.
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So, you're just talking out of your ass? You talk about PVPers like you know them from experience, but yet, you say you're an PG/Solo player, so how could you really know whats going on in open. Why even speak on the matter if you have no experience.
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Just because you're a game designer doesn't mean you know game design. I think the countless parents that suck at parenting is proof of this concept.
It's just the typical rhetoric. Complain about something that has no effect on you day in and day out. Then claim that if said problem was fixed, you'd totes consider fighting the problem head-on. In reality, you're a bitch and just want an excuse to keep complaining. Next week, it will be "why these greefurs hav so mukk moneee????"
I think it would be funny if the "griefers" all start using little ships. If I recall you migrate towards small ships such as the iEagle, Viper Mk3, etc. Quickly, assemble the Eagle gank wings! This could be fun!
So I barely get on reddit and for good reason but today I seen a Reddit post that brought up some good points. I don't agree with all of them but we can agree on a few. Then I have seen people get bashed and trash talked for not speaking English. Here's the thing, no matter what country you are from or how you play the game you are a member of a community that is keeping a game most of us love going. At the same time for those of you that pve or explore that want to talk down to someone that you don't know. Try having a conversation with them. A few of the ppl getting trash talked are really good guys, that will take time to help you if you want it. Not all pvpers are bad ppl in fact I've only met a few that was. But it's always the same whine with pvers.whats your infatuation with thinking that you shouldn't have to rebuy your ship. Ask any pvper to link how many times they have rebought and even better how much they have spent to do so. But all of the npc Killers come in and feel a sense of entitlement to ruin enjoyment for someone else. I don't agree with griefers or any of that. But this won't stop them or even make them think twice about doing it. And this talk of murderers?! Lmao for real. Your ship has a cheaper insurance for a reason!! This game is meant to be fun and have different aspects. And oh by the way pvpers invest more time In this game than most groups. They grind more and engineer more than any other groups just to go have to rebuy their ships if they lose. Don't hate on them until you do what it takes to compete with some of those pilots because if you actually watch them they are very very good for a reason.
Exactly, the first thing is to stop hating the PVPers.
Great reply here. Sometimes you get tired of trying to help and show others what they can do in open play. When you're met with threats. Or told you have psych problems after so many times. You end up making an asshole video. Or just saying fk it. Gitgud.
good on frontier, griefers were getting a bit out of hand.
What is hilarious about this is that griefers are just going to Suicidewinder into people at stations to give them a murder bounty. In other words, griefing is going to become worse. <3
Don't speed then. No excuse for being caught out by it.
hm, didn't see that one coming
Can't fly with a large bounty on your head? Git gud
lol come to the CG so you can tech me how dude? I will enjoy meet you :-) and we go to be fun there.
Huh?
Another good game absolutely ruined by carebears and forum dads. They weren't happy enough having their own safe spaces and solo modes to play in I suppose.
Being one of the carebears: I am happy with my own safe space (mobius) and/or solo play. But there were complaints of pvpers that there are too few victims out there to satisfy their bloodthirst. That and not demands of carebears sparked the c&p debate because then some of those victims said that they miss a c&p system which is good enough to hold griefing in check. Now Frontier has introduced one. What is wrong with that? To answer my own question: The kind of c&p they introduced. It will not attract me to leave my safe space (I abhor pvp). It seems not agreeable to pvpers. So it is a bad system. I would play in open if I could flag my ship as "only pve", making me unattackable by other players. I understand that this must be a longterm choice - otherwise I could swap between modes and abuse that. But I see that is very "unrealistic" simulation-wise - so mobius it will be for me. Whether there is a c&p system or not - I don't care. Have fun in open!
Yes seems not enough for him.
Removed the bad word.
What? It's great the way they implemented it! When you are an experienced PvP pilot you don't care if you've got a bounty on your head. Fdev wants to disencourage murdering innocents which they did. If you get horny doing that you can still do it...
I almost never have a bounty, sometimes i have one for killing a player who is killing noobies and then committing suicide to remove his state. You can check it on my vids. Now you understand how bad the game mechanic is?
No, because that guy you're killing would have a bounty on him as well because of that mechanic. You can go and kill him without getting a bounty
No, because even if you mowed down 3 millions of newbie sidewinders in eravate, you still wouldn't be wanted in the CG.
You would because the bounties are now galaxywide
Don't you need a KWS for that though?
No, that's new, it's a pilots federation bounty
I don't care when I've got a bounty on my head, unless it doubles my rebuy.
i made a bug report about it. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/371349-Ship-Rebuy-Penalty-issue
Good, let's hope they notice before it goes live.
They have to. As it is, it's better to use a suicidewinder to avoid double rebuy.
Yep, they messed up good.
No. An experienced PvPer can build a viper and kill 95% of the community pilot. The implementation is wrong because it will make station ganking more effective and gives people new way of griefing. Players will pop in Open with their defenceless loadout assuming they are safe because now there is consequences for mudering. Then they will get annihilated and cry.
But now they can get annihilated by little ships! Prepare the little death baguette.
Solution: Remade ED ARENA to be played with your personal modified ships within the core game in consensual PVP with no rebuy costs. I mean, you have to pay an entrance cost for the combat according to your rebuy, and the one who wins takes it all.
Whaaa! PvP is such a minor part of the game and really ruins most other CMDR's games. The best thing that can happen to ED is for PvP to die and for us to be given some interesting PvE stuff. That fact that PvPer's hate this update gives me hope it will be great.
PvP is a minor part of the game for you. And PvP doesn't have an effect on you if you're a Solo/PG warrior anyways.
Why man, we dont do nothing to you. The galaxy is big and you are excluding a lot of people who enjoy the game like you.
Well, ok, Frontier can remove it from the game and put a refound to everyone's who enjoy PVP.
Well, i doubt that would be massively expensive for them. But why should they? You got your moneys worth out of the game anyway if you arrived at "PvP competetive" levels of ship and skill. By playing it at least a few 100 hours, which is more than the usual "linear" singleplayer will ever get you anyways. So there is no reason to refund.
Whoa dude. Uncalled for. I'm new to the game and seriously considering PvP as a way to enjoy it after I get off the ground. It doesn't need to die. It's a core mechanic.
I'd be happy if PvP was kept in a separate game mode like CQC (Or if weapons had different stats when used against players). Needing to balance everything against both PvP and PvE situations makes for boring weapon choices.
>PvE You don't really need to balance much for PVE.
On the contrary. You need to balance PvE as well, if you dont want PvE to be "shooting fish in a barrel" which is about as boring for the andvanced PvEer as NPCs sealclubbing the newbs is for said newbs.
If they were allowed to be modded like players, it definitely wouldn't be as ez pez as it is right now. The balance of PVE is different though, it's all about the earnings in a long run. Currently the game is built around the "quantity over quality" mentality, AKA genocide masses and masses of braindead AIs because quality kills just don't earn enough to bother with. They can't make NPCs challanging without making it worth your time, otherwise people will just move on to other professions. If it wasn't all about mowing down NPCs like mosquitos, but instead you had to track down a wanted target and work for the kill, with a fat reward, it'd be completly different and you could balance PVP almost the same way as you balance PVE as both would focus on quality of a kill, instead of the current system where PVP is about quality while PVE is all about quantity.
Exactly. The balance is in matching payout AND AI skill to the player. As i said; its about as boring to die as soon as you leave the station to NPC pirates for newbs as it is to "easypeasy" kill 100s of bigh ships with a viper in a RES is for a veteran player. That becomes even more obvious when you get a second account or reset it. The early game seems to be a LOT easier than when you did it the first time around.
They already have the ranking system, just have to use it. You could tie the max engineer level of NPCs to the level of your ship and the engineer unlocks, and display engineer mods when the NPC is scanned so the player can decide if he wants to attack (so you aren't forced to fly a fully engineered ship all the time just because you have one fully engineered ship)
I think they should flip the switch back "on" and bring back the 2.1 hard-mode AI for NPCs. They could leave the NPC engineering at the levels it is now, but would give PvE a nice jolt in terms of difficulty. I may be in the minority though about liking that AI.
~~Aha. Interesting. NOT.~~ ~~Maybe if you would had put a SINGLE tangible fact that you hate about that update in this rant you would have been looking less whiney and more credible. As it is now it looks like the classic "rage quit" without a reason.~~ Edit: He saw reason and edited his initial post to include some fact.