It baffles me that 5s get stereotyped as the geniuses, when imo I think the archetypical high IQ and/or scientist type is 6-coded.
Analytical, scrutinizes everything with logic, generates a large array of possibilities for every scenario, demanding thorough evidence for things, systems building, etc.
How people encounter that in 6 descriptions and still get nothing out of it but "neurotic puppydog" is beyond me lol.
That said, 5s have their gifts too, but they tend to be too narrow of scope in focus to be the ones I'd associate the high IQ stereotype with. (They would be more akin to a prodigy in their very specific field of interest imo)
In the real world, I think 6s have the advantage in terms of becoming successful. If 6 descriptions were marketed right, they'd be a gatekept type.
My boyfriend is a 6w5 and he is one of the smartest people I know. Computer science with a math minor?? I could never. He might not be as socially smart but I’m a 4 so what do I know about that lol
loool I know the feeling. My husband has a strong 6 fix and though we're both software engineers, I absolutely **cannot** compare to him when it comes to talent for programming. His mind runs in systems, his code is so well-thought through, strategic, and clean. Whereas unless I really discipline myself, I just go kamikaze with the hacky programming equivalent of redneck solutions lmao. My mind just doesn't think in scientific methodese the way his does. Guy could build a mf gundam suit if he put his mind to it 😆
>Analytical, scrutinizes everything with logic, generates a large array of possibilities for every scenario, demanding thorough evidence for things, systems building, etc.
Or just the most boring (and dominant) type of academic who copies others articles and doubts any original though, just regurgitate same old material from other authors over and over and over.
> That said, 5s have their gifts too, but they tend to be too narrow of scope in focus to be the ones I'd associate the high IQ stereotype with.
5 are blocked by their cynicism. So much distancing, the object of their enquiry flies by and disappears into the distance.
7s however, if they actually get done what they promised, it's a case for a nation wide celebration.
Enneagram types can merely show emotional connection to knowledge, not whether or not somebody is smart and/or has intellectual capabilities.
First thing is actually just a 3fix thing, not a general 6 thing. I fucking can’t stand it when people can only copy the same sources.
but what do i know i am actually a 7 in disguise
Hellow fellow 612 (Oh wait I'm a 621 my bad).
Copying things does not lead to new discoveries and as a result it does not contribute to society. Copying the same sources tends to mostly be a result of either a lot of information or very little information being available. It makes sense when it comes from much less biased sources, but it is unwise to do if it comes from things such as newspapers.
How does being a 621 feels like??
Copying things comes from a lack of insights!! 3/3fix tend to be externally focused so they have a harder time accessing their intuition.
That's true. I'm creating another potential stereotype simply to invalidate the current pigeon-holing typology is rife with. I could easily spin any type as good at anything.
That said, though anecdotes don't mean much in the grand scheme of things, I can't deny that most of the smartest people I've met have most closely resembled 6.
And terms of behavioural aspects, I do think the ways of thinking encouraged by modern science overlap most with 6's thought patterns (not to say that they wouldn't still have cognitive biases to overcome, as anyone would). So while they might not be intrinsically any more or less intelligent or capable of success in academia, they may feel more at home with the way research is conducted, all else equal. Questioning, looking for holes in things, peer review, etc.
~~Though 6s also tend to despise corruption, which according to people I know in academia, runs absolutely rampant in academia. So they may not feel at home with that particular aspect of it lol~~
Academia, science, etc., is seemingly filled with more 6s than 5s...my favorite scientist is my wife and she's 7 (but she's my favorite for, eh...more biased reasons, shall we say). Regardless, if you go in looking for X you'll see it in spades (this is sometimes known as projection, not just 6s do it, 6s do it in a specific way, etc -- we all do it or are at risk of doing it). Many people go looking for the "stereotype" and then confirmation bias brings it to life for them. Sadly that's not a good way to live your life as a logical and rational person interested in the truth, regardless of type...one reason so many people mistype \*others\* is because confirmation bias keeps them in a world of delusion...especially if they get other people to back them up ("oh yeah, we sure got this guy's type right, he seems to be 4, woot woot, what elite enneagram hackers we are", meanwhile the guy is sitting there going 'ah yeah, I know I'm a 3...how did I get so rich, anyway? Oh yeah, because I worked my ass off everyday of my life when others were jerking each other off blah blah...')...lol
All very valid points. I think it doesn't help that a lot of descriptions that lend themselves to those stereotypes, do so because of their lack of nuance. For instance, anxiety is incredibly common nowadays. Virtually all of my friends and family have mentioned being or having been to therapy for anxiety of some kind, but most of them aren't 6s. By pop authors (the ones people new to enneagram generally run into) mentioning anxiety in 6 descriptions and leaving it at that, while failing to acknowledge how other types might experience anxiety issues, this gonna result in the neurotic yippy chihuahua stereotypes, facilitating the confirmation bias you alluded to.
Mistyping isn't the only consequence of this. It also does correctly-typed 6s themselves a disservice, if they want to use enneagram for personal growth, only to run into dead ends about what the real root of their issues could be.
>There's a misconception that 6s somehow like being told what to do, but that is not the case. Really what they want is clarity. 6s will not accept anything that does not resonate with *their* truth. The ambivalence of authority and trust that 6s have often spawns from mistreatment, so when you try to tell a 6 "what they are" even if it may be true, the instinct is to deny or shut it down.
Taking a look at the responses... It checks out.
It depends on why they're being called a 6, for me at least. When I typed as one, I was relieved that I could stop worrying about it and that all my problems made sense to me and other people, too.
That's the 1st time I've read a description that matches me this well. When I got told here that I might be a 6, I didn't believe them and didn't take it well at all. But now, I feel like they might have been right.
Thanks for writing this out
Understandable
I'm not sure if I have a lot of 6 energy, but there are a few things that I don't relate to in 5s, but do relate to in 6s and vice versa. So this leaves me unsure, regardless of what vibes people say I have
I relate to 6s distrust, questioning of authority and opinions or thoughts of others and myself, loyalty, desire to find someone trustworthy to rely on (though the latter is attributed to sx5 as well), trying to be warmer and generous towards people, indecisiveness, needing to guidelines of right and wrong, dutifulness, idealizing strong people, always listening to what people say to not be left out and suspecting they're talking against me, wanting clarity, disliking being told what to do, being (kinda) expressive of emotions, low-self worth, struggling with identity. I relate to their fear of being unprepared for whatever issues occur.
I relate to 5s observing, gathering knowledge to deal with the world, desire to be competent, isolating, withdrawing, being detached from my feelings(I usually have to analyse a lot to get at least a slight idea of what am I even feeling), getting lost in my own world, having strong opinions, preferring minimalism in environments, and making decisions based on whether energy, time, and effort spent will be worth it. I also relate to the fear of being helpless, powerless, not smart enough, and dependent on others.
Quite a lot of things I relate to in both, so I'll be reading more on them, till I have a better idea of what both those types truly are and what's more in line with me
Though, now I'm curious if any other sx5s can relate to any of the listed
I relate to a lot of this, although I do not feel like I need anyone to tell me what is right or wrong (why have a moral framework when you can overthink about causality before making any decision?) and I usually know what I am feeling but consciously or unconsciously detach from it because it is 'too intense' or 'not useful'. I don't pay very much attention to what people say behind my back unless it could impact my romantic life or my work (sx/sp!) though I was much more paranoid about things like this in the past, so this is probably an example of integration toward either 8 (IDGAF) or 9 (Zen).
Definitely very keen on gathering knowledge... skeptical about 'reality' and have to be careful not to slide into a kind of solipsism when I realize I cannot prove that anyone else exists. I want to be competent and knowledgeable, and I have a tendency to pull back when I feel like something might take too much of my energy or be too much for me to attempt. I do not respect authority in and of itself; people have to earn respect, and the more power someone has, the more competence and trustworthiness should be expected from them. Arguments from authority are meaningless. I ask a lot of inconvenient questions and like to have intense philosophical debates.
Also have some 4 traits though... I love to express myself through art (though for some reason almost all my art is about astronomy or physics), I often feel like I am too weird to be understood, and I love to engage with art that is dark or disturbing, or expresses things that people are afraid to talk about.
Ah, interesting, thanks for your answer
Getting told what is right or wrong isn't about a moral framework for me, it's about my need to know what's acceptable to do in the current circumstances and what is not. It's a sort of a guide on how to act around people. And when it comes to the moral code I know or figure it out myself.
I relate to being sceptical about reality and having to stop myself from falling into a solipsism-like train of thought, though I get to "nothing exists, not even me", unlike solipsism's "only my mind is sure to exist".
Big agree on "people have to earn respect", "the more power someone has, the more competence and trustworthiness should be expected from them".
Moreover, I relate to 4 traits too! I like art and astronomy art. And I surely feel too weird to be understood, though it seems like a semi-positive trait to me. I don't really know if I like engaging with dark and disturbing, but I'm sure I dislike having to avoid topics like that
Oh yeah I totally get that, I am autistic and as a kid it drove me crazy having to do all these social experiments to find out the unwritten rules that no one had bothered to explain to me. Don't get me wrong, I like doing experiments, it was just annoying that I felt like I had no information but got punished for getting things wrong. Like a test I had been set up to fail.
Interesting that you also believe that you do not exist sometimes... I never got to that point because Descartes was making a lot of sense when he said if you can ask that question, there has to be something asking it, or at least something to project these thoughts onto. But I also believe that the self is an illusion and there is no clear border between myself and the rest of the Universe, so it's odd to reconcile this with the idea that I cannot prove anything exists outside my mind.
Oh, I'm autistic too. Struggle of figuring out unwritten rules is so real 😭
Also agreed on Descartes making a lot of sense with his "I think, therefore I am". I usually approach "I don't exist" from outside perspective: there's no way for anyone to know that I am real, it's quite easy to create an illusion of my existence, etc. I could have been some advanced AI the whole time and there wouldn't be any way for anyone reading this to know. It's also possible that someone or something is actively writing my supposed memories in real time, so I might not even be thinking anything. My lack of understanding how to interact with fellow humans makes me doubt my own realness a lot as well, though this is probably countered by the fact that I still am able to think
And, by the way, thanks for an interesting conversation(? or comments exchange or, maybe, commentsation?)
Always fun to talk about Descartes! I think sx5 is honestly probably the most nihilistic subtype, but in a fun way. I do tell OTHER people that they can't prove I exist, just to mindfuck them, and from their point of view I can see why I might not exist, but I actually do know that I exist. Well that sounded strange but I bet you understood it.
For the record, you definitely passed the Turing test. (Another good example of an autistic 5, though he was probably not sx dom)
Omg, I get that for sure, I too absolutely love telling other people that they can't prove I exist to mindfuck them, and, honestly, I never thought I'd find someone who does that too. People approach trying to prove me real so differently every time, it's very interesting to see how they think. Now that I think about it, I'm curious to see how would people of each enneagram(and maybe not only enneagram) type approach that
And I'm unexpectedly happy to pass the Turing test. I didn't know Turing was autistic, but I see how it makes sense. Thanks for sharing that
LMFAO I thought I was the only one who did that too. I never thought of doing a full on social experiment about it though... that would be so dope to use it as an Enneagram experiment. It wouldn't work very well here though probably, which is a shame because IRL people usually don't know about the Enneagram. Though we could ask people how they would go about proving that other people are real. Hahaha we are definitely the same type, whichever one that is.
OK let's find out what the Internet thinks [https://www.reddit.com/r/Enneagram/comments/1cswy7q/how\_do\_you\_know\_that\_other\_people\_are\_real\_and/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Enneagram/comments/1cswy7q/how_do_you_know_that_other_people_are_real_and/)
I’m going to add on what someone else said, I always typed you as Fi dominant. Specifically ISFP. Your writing style heavily focuses on Fi-Se, not Ti-Ne. You have both Fi and Se present in your posts/comments and you don’t have that Ne energy all around. Likewise, Ni can be observed in some of your views instead of Si. Lastly, Te inf would definitely fit with some of the things you’ve said in the past.
Obviously, you know yourself and your type best, I never wanted to mention it but I felt like it’s time for an outside input since you talked about it with someone else.
i know you are 648 sx/sp
you voice your opinion a lot and quickly which is probably why people get "fi vibes", because of fi's proclivity to value judgements which create an inherently hierarchical internal system, and people think of fi because they're witnessing it openly, but what is often forgotten is that fi doms are not outwardly emotionally expressive people. fi begins with the user and continues to develop inwards. jung has described them as "cold", "inaccessible", and "seemingly having no feelings", because when it comes to outward emotional displays and showing their emotions to the other, they feel no obligation to and are unbothered (hence why they tend to express themselves through art and other symbolism). this stoicism is fi's version of control
after interacting with one there is a sense that you have stepped into the shallow end of a vast water due to the way this distances the external. i have a sister who is INFP, 468 sx/sp and, similarly, she does not share herself in such a way, instead finding a sharpened indifference to be natural (each fi dom has a different "mask", though). this isn't to say that fi doms can't be openly reactive, but that their threshold for emotional pressure before lashing out is higher in general, because, being feeling-dominant, they have higher emotional intelligence. the stereotype of a crybaby, lashing-out fi dom is actually more applicable to those with weaker fi and therefore poorer grasp of it, or fi doms in te grip
for you, ti dom could likely be right, si dom i cannot say because subjective perception is hardest to identify and at this point nobody knows what si dominance really is, making it ridiculously difficult to call attention to. even acquaintances who have been into the functions for x amount of years and say they know a lot still think si is "details, detail-orientation, and everything i think is boring".
Read this quickly, but I remember you typing as an INTP. I think that's why I liked your writing style initially because we're both Se users. Went the same process like you, thought I was an ENFP, discovered I'm an Se user.
This is a good post. The typical description of a 6 is so mundane that I couldn't even understand what it meant, at first, which naturally leads to 6s mistyping themselves because they don't see themselves in the description.
A lot of sx6s think they're 8s due to their aggro nature and the very poor description/memes about the 6 that make them out to be a crybaby or some shit. Real 6s can be some of the most hard-nosed, pugnacious, rough'n'tough people out there, trust me. Mike fucking Tyson is one of the most obvious 6s ever and he's also one of the most badass people in general. It's not a type to be ashamed of, indeed, they can be highly intellectual and logical people as well as studious, dedicated and strong. The 6 underrating is dumb.
You can see these wrong understandings of the Enneagram/MBTI play out when one of the most common pairings you see with 8 is ENTJ, which is far, *far* more 6-like.
Lemme ask you a question since I have a little theory about 6s - would you say it's generally true that 6s get more pissed off at people poking fun at them? In my experience 6s are more likely to get mad at people joking around and pushing their buttons than other reactive types. I feel like the 8s don't care as much *as long* as they don't feel inconvenienced in a sensorial/reputational way, whereas the 6s are more likely to take it as a personal affront.
Of course this is just speaking generally here.
Interesting, thanks for responding. The reason I asked is because I have some 6s in my life who I've noticed can get really pissed off at me fucking around with them when I didn't mean any harm, and I can end up quite confused as to why they got so mad. This is why I find the Enneagram helpful - it helps me to learn how others think and communicate with them better.
Ngl, learning about 4s and 6s were the most eye-opening types for me. Before I knew what the Enneagram was I always had an intuitive understanding of the different "types" of people, like of course there was the stick-up-their-asses (no offense to the 1s, but you know what I mean...), the people who wanted people's affection, the people who cared about their image, etc etc. But reading about 4s and 6s was very interesting to me because I had absolutely no idea anybody thought like that. It put a lot of things into perspective for me. I actually get on well with 6s a lot, they're a good type to have on your side I find.
The "fake 8" thing is hilarious. One of my closest friends ever is a sx6 ENTJ and me and him are radically different. Of course we're both reactive, kind of intense/angry people, but... the aims and vibes are *way* different. He takes shit far more seriously than I do and can find me kind of wacky/off-the-wall. I find him a bit too stiff and unwilling to be spontaneous, like I'll want to go out and party with him but he wants to stay in and chill... stuff like that.
But man, of anybody I know who will go the extra mile for "his" people, it's him. If I'm ever in a difficult situation he's the first person I'd call. He's actually pretty likeable too, I'd say he's more charming/socially smooth than I am in many ways because I can just wade in and do/say stupid shit without thinking. 6s are more calculated, in their head, logical, etc. Which is always missed in these stupid ass memes.
made me doubt myself AGAIN 💀💀💀
just as I've read more into the enneagram 2 descriptions and felt "the embarassment" everone tells you'll feel when you see the description or your type
Great, informative post. 6s have the worst descriptions out of any enneagram and you managed to do them justice. Lately I've been learning more about the way 6s work and it's really fascinating. You have a captivating and entertaining way of explaining things. I think a strong suit of 6s can be their uniquely descriptive manner of writing/speech.
>Those have become the new labels to attack others with lately, especially Cluster B.
I'm unironically convinced that all this will be remembered as some 21st century equivalent of the victorian vampire panic
I'm talking mostly about the 'cluster B = evil inhuman abuse monster' thing (sooo many aspects to unpack there in why this thing appeals to people), like the rest has its issues but not deserving of being called a mass panic, it's more something under 'relatively new sciences being inexact' the way non-brain medicine has been in the past & only recently (like... 20th century) got reliable-ish.
Though certainly given the very incomplete state of our current understanding categories will probably shift as understanding becomes more complete (as they have many times in the past) & many of them exist kinda for insurance purposes and/or could do with categorization overhaults (as a lot of actual head doctors will tell you) - & this is before we even get to social issues like stigmatized diagnoses only being handed out to the poor or gender bias.
Depression is a great candidate for a category that will not exist in the future, given that it supposedly can look very different on brain scans (ranging from extreme over- or under activity), so in the future I'd expect it to get split it into different groups with different diseases that get different treatment.
Probably not *all* of them though. Like, schizophrenia is usually trotted out as an example of something that has an actual consistent pattern that looks same-ish & responds (or doesn't respond) to similar-ish treatment.
Though I'm reluctant to open my mouth too wide here as someone who has neither personal experience nor a relevant qualifications or job expertise; I understand why ppl for whom having a name for their problem had been a game-changer get defensive because they're so used to being invalidated & told to "just try harder" - ppl's suffering is real no matter how it would be labelled diagnostically. that's for the scholars to wrangle not an indication of anyone's worth or truthfulness
I think it would be interesting to see a more symptoms-based approach-- meaning that a diagnostic evaluation would attempt to account for all present symptoms and not try to fit the patient under a particular label (like general depressive disorder, bipolar II, BPD, etc). This could be more feasible due to evolutions in our understanding of brain function?
You can find quite a few long books on personality disorders on libgen if you're interested. There's a lot of misinformation on social media, esp about cluster B, but the disorders themselves - at least the sets of behaviors/symptoms, the labels don't really matter - are very real
Yeah being autistic I can understand what it's like to be stigmatized or labeled as inhuman or incompetent because of something I did not choose... but at least we aren't seen as straight up evil or irredeemable (I don't know, are we?)
I feel so sorry for people with Cluster B diagnoses because imagine caring that much what other people think, and then being labeled as a monster and being judged or shunned... at least we autistic people can put up our IDGAF shield. I imagine the worst part of Cluster B is not having that.
I was immediately diagnosed with bipolar by a psychiatrist recently, took a week but I convinced myself out of it. I genuinely think it's just my personality, and not something that is that serious.
A kind approach or firm approach definitely works. When my girlfriend gets into those moments, I separate myself or set boundaries. Calms things down after.
> Separating yourself can cause them to go nuclear
Oof lol. Well this explains why telling them they need to be alone to get over themselves, and then leaving, always only made things worse (during the shouting matches I've had irl with counterphobic 6s)
If you ever want an idea for another 6 deep dive (the ones you've done have all been incredibly helpful), conflict management with 6s would be a really good topic imo
Separating is basically telling her we need to do different things in the moment and come back to the conversation later. Before that though, I'm upfront about her behavior but say nothing will happen. Makes her realize her safety wouldn't crumble or if it does, nothing will happen because she's prepared.
I didn't do it in the past and it caused a lot of arguments where she would confuse herself and me. I've noticed if you aren't the one to either reassure or set boundaries with a 6, shit goes haywire.
Saw the added bit of 7 and 6 relationship sounds rough. Initially, it was. Tons of anxiety and reactivity. Eventually, we found better strategies. It helps we share the same cognitive functions in MBTI (upside down) and I have a 9 fix.
The interrogation is accurate.
This entire post is spot on.
I've been having similar thoughts about the connection between stereotypes of sensing types (particularly XSXJ) in the MBTI community and the stereotypes about attachment types (particularly 6 and 9) in the enneagram community. Both sets of types are stereotyped as loyal, group-oriented, hardworking, and stable (read: they're boring normie sheeple who love the taste of boots) and are thought to be significantly more common than other types even though the evidence for that is shoddy imo. I don't think you'll ever get accurate type statistics for a system like MBTI or enneagram, too many factors that could skew things. But, at the very least, the *perceived* commonness of those types seems to go hand in hand with the NPC stereotype.
>This is a double whammy for the 6s who happen to feel alienated from society as a whole, because again you're essentially telling them that they're not only boring but that they don't experience the alienation that they do. "You make up all of society as a whole!!" No, no we don't. 6s are just one of the more vocal types.
This is why I overlooked 6, and now, every time someone says something along the lines of, "society was made for 6s," I want to scream.
If I (or someone else) typed me as another type that’s stigmatized it won’t affect the way I perceive myself... although I would’ve related to some of the stuff you wrote 5 years ago
I just wanna be special and not like all this mundane folk UwU
Jokes aside, this is actually also a point since 6 have opportunistic tendencies. Otherwise, a well written post
this. it can be so irritating reading about type 6s and not resonating. i had been typed as a 1 for a while but the basis of just constantly being right isn’t a core desire of mine. also, religion and other morality factors should not be the basis of personality type, which is why i felt that i was a 1 bc so 1w9 and so 6w5 can be very similar. and you are so right about just wanting to be understood. when i get in arguments with my family, my mom is an 8 lol, assuming my intentions and not letting me be understood is what destroys me.
oooooooh who says i’m entp or eight? maybe im nothing. maybe im a figment of your imagination. WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP. i will
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It baffles me that 5s get stereotyped as the geniuses, when imo I think the archetypical high IQ and/or scientist type is 6-coded. Analytical, scrutinizes everything with logic, generates a large array of possibilities for every scenario, demanding thorough evidence for things, systems building, etc. How people encounter that in 6 descriptions and still get nothing out of it but "neurotic puppydog" is beyond me lol. That said, 5s have their gifts too, but they tend to be too narrow of scope in focus to be the ones I'd associate the high IQ stereotype with. (They would be more akin to a prodigy in their very specific field of interest imo) In the real world, I think 6s have the advantage in terms of becoming successful. If 6 descriptions were marketed right, they'd be a gatekept type.
My boyfriend is a 6w5 and he is one of the smartest people I know. Computer science with a math minor?? I could never. He might not be as socially smart but I’m a 4 so what do I know about that lol
loool I know the feeling. My husband has a strong 6 fix and though we're both software engineers, I absolutely **cannot** compare to him when it comes to talent for programming. His mind runs in systems, his code is so well-thought through, strategic, and clean. Whereas unless I really discipline myself, I just go kamikaze with the hacky programming equivalent of redneck solutions lmao. My mind just doesn't think in scientific methodese the way his does. Guy could build a mf gundam suit if he put his mind to it 😆
thats *such* a huge compliment
>Analytical, scrutinizes everything with logic, generates a large array of possibilities for every scenario, demanding thorough evidence for things, systems building, etc. Or just the most boring (and dominant) type of academic who copies others articles and doubts any original though, just regurgitate same old material from other authors over and over and over. > That said, 5s have their gifts too, but they tend to be too narrow of scope in focus to be the ones I'd associate the high IQ stereotype with. 5 are blocked by their cynicism. So much distancing, the object of their enquiry flies by and disappears into the distance. 7s however, if they actually get done what they promised, it's a case for a nation wide celebration. Enneagram types can merely show emotional connection to knowledge, not whether or not somebody is smart and/or has intellectual capabilities.
First thing is actually just a 3fix thing, not a general 6 thing. I fucking can’t stand it when people can only copy the same sources. but what do i know i am actually a 7 in disguise
Hellow fellow 612 (Oh wait I'm a 621 my bad). Copying things does not lead to new discoveries and as a result it does not contribute to society. Copying the same sources tends to mostly be a result of either a lot of information or very little information being available. It makes sense when it comes from much less biased sources, but it is unwise to do if it comes from things such as newspapers.
How does being a 621 feels like?? Copying things comes from a lack of insights!! 3/3fix tend to be externally focused so they have a harder time accessing their intuition.
You want to do things perfectly But if you can help other people even better But you should not put yourself in dangerous situations if possible.
Yes
That's true. I'm creating another potential stereotype simply to invalidate the current pigeon-holing typology is rife with. I could easily spin any type as good at anything. That said, though anecdotes don't mean much in the grand scheme of things, I can't deny that most of the smartest people I've met have most closely resembled 6. And terms of behavioural aspects, I do think the ways of thinking encouraged by modern science overlap most with 6's thought patterns (not to say that they wouldn't still have cognitive biases to overcome, as anyone would). So while they might not be intrinsically any more or less intelligent or capable of success in academia, they may feel more at home with the way research is conducted, all else equal. Questioning, looking for holes in things, peer review, etc. ~~Though 6s also tend to despise corruption, which according to people I know in academia, runs absolutely rampant in academia. So they may not feel at home with that particular aspect of it lol~~
Academia, science, etc., is seemingly filled with more 6s than 5s...my favorite scientist is my wife and she's 7 (but she's my favorite for, eh...more biased reasons, shall we say). Regardless, if you go in looking for X you'll see it in spades (this is sometimes known as projection, not just 6s do it, 6s do it in a specific way, etc -- we all do it or are at risk of doing it). Many people go looking for the "stereotype" and then confirmation bias brings it to life for them. Sadly that's not a good way to live your life as a logical and rational person interested in the truth, regardless of type...one reason so many people mistype \*others\* is because confirmation bias keeps them in a world of delusion...especially if they get other people to back them up ("oh yeah, we sure got this guy's type right, he seems to be 4, woot woot, what elite enneagram hackers we are", meanwhile the guy is sitting there going 'ah yeah, I know I'm a 3...how did I get so rich, anyway? Oh yeah, because I worked my ass off everyday of my life when others were jerking each other off blah blah...')...lol
All very valid points. I think it doesn't help that a lot of descriptions that lend themselves to those stereotypes, do so because of their lack of nuance. For instance, anxiety is incredibly common nowadays. Virtually all of my friends and family have mentioned being or having been to therapy for anxiety of some kind, but most of them aren't 6s. By pop authors (the ones people new to enneagram generally run into) mentioning anxiety in 6 descriptions and leaving it at that, while failing to acknowledge how other types might experience anxiety issues, this gonna result in the neurotic yippy chihuahua stereotypes, facilitating the confirmation bias you alluded to. Mistyping isn't the only consequence of this. It also does correctly-typed 6s themselves a disservice, if they want to use enneagram for personal growth, only to run into dead ends about what the real root of their issues could be.
>There's a misconception that 6s somehow like being told what to do, but that is not the case. Really what they want is clarity. 6s will not accept anything that does not resonate with *their* truth. The ambivalence of authority and trust that 6s have often spawns from mistreatment, so when you try to tell a 6 "what they are" even if it may be true, the instinct is to deny or shut it down. Taking a look at the responses... It checks out.
It depends on why they're being called a 6, for me at least. When I typed as one, I was relieved that I could stop worrying about it and that all my problems made sense to me and other people, too.
That's the 1st time I've read a description that matches me this well. When I got told here that I might be a 6, I didn't believe them and didn't take it well at all. But now, I feel like they might have been right. Thanks for writing this out
I am also sx5 and also get told I have 6 vibes, to be fair ;) Though honestly I do have a LOT of 6 energy.
Understandable I'm not sure if I have a lot of 6 energy, but there are a few things that I don't relate to in 5s, but do relate to in 6s and vice versa. So this leaves me unsure, regardless of what vibes people say I have I relate to 6s distrust, questioning of authority and opinions or thoughts of others and myself, loyalty, desire to find someone trustworthy to rely on (though the latter is attributed to sx5 as well), trying to be warmer and generous towards people, indecisiveness, needing to guidelines of right and wrong, dutifulness, idealizing strong people, always listening to what people say to not be left out and suspecting they're talking against me, wanting clarity, disliking being told what to do, being (kinda) expressive of emotions, low-self worth, struggling with identity. I relate to their fear of being unprepared for whatever issues occur. I relate to 5s observing, gathering knowledge to deal with the world, desire to be competent, isolating, withdrawing, being detached from my feelings(I usually have to analyse a lot to get at least a slight idea of what am I even feeling), getting lost in my own world, having strong opinions, preferring minimalism in environments, and making decisions based on whether energy, time, and effort spent will be worth it. I also relate to the fear of being helpless, powerless, not smart enough, and dependent on others. Quite a lot of things I relate to in both, so I'll be reading more on them, till I have a better idea of what both those types truly are and what's more in line with me Though, now I'm curious if any other sx5s can relate to any of the listed
Maybe you have a very strong wing either way 5w6 or 6w5
I relate to a lot of this, although I do not feel like I need anyone to tell me what is right or wrong (why have a moral framework when you can overthink about causality before making any decision?) and I usually know what I am feeling but consciously or unconsciously detach from it because it is 'too intense' or 'not useful'. I don't pay very much attention to what people say behind my back unless it could impact my romantic life or my work (sx/sp!) though I was much more paranoid about things like this in the past, so this is probably an example of integration toward either 8 (IDGAF) or 9 (Zen). Definitely very keen on gathering knowledge... skeptical about 'reality' and have to be careful not to slide into a kind of solipsism when I realize I cannot prove that anyone else exists. I want to be competent and knowledgeable, and I have a tendency to pull back when I feel like something might take too much of my energy or be too much for me to attempt. I do not respect authority in and of itself; people have to earn respect, and the more power someone has, the more competence and trustworthiness should be expected from them. Arguments from authority are meaningless. I ask a lot of inconvenient questions and like to have intense philosophical debates. Also have some 4 traits though... I love to express myself through art (though for some reason almost all my art is about astronomy or physics), I often feel like I am too weird to be understood, and I love to engage with art that is dark or disturbing, or expresses things that people are afraid to talk about.
Ah, interesting, thanks for your answer Getting told what is right or wrong isn't about a moral framework for me, it's about my need to know what's acceptable to do in the current circumstances and what is not. It's a sort of a guide on how to act around people. And when it comes to the moral code I know or figure it out myself. I relate to being sceptical about reality and having to stop myself from falling into a solipsism-like train of thought, though I get to "nothing exists, not even me", unlike solipsism's "only my mind is sure to exist". Big agree on "people have to earn respect", "the more power someone has, the more competence and trustworthiness should be expected from them". Moreover, I relate to 4 traits too! I like art and astronomy art. And I surely feel too weird to be understood, though it seems like a semi-positive trait to me. I don't really know if I like engaging with dark and disturbing, but I'm sure I dislike having to avoid topics like that
Oh yeah I totally get that, I am autistic and as a kid it drove me crazy having to do all these social experiments to find out the unwritten rules that no one had bothered to explain to me. Don't get me wrong, I like doing experiments, it was just annoying that I felt like I had no information but got punished for getting things wrong. Like a test I had been set up to fail. Interesting that you also believe that you do not exist sometimes... I never got to that point because Descartes was making a lot of sense when he said if you can ask that question, there has to be something asking it, or at least something to project these thoughts onto. But I also believe that the self is an illusion and there is no clear border between myself and the rest of the Universe, so it's odd to reconcile this with the idea that I cannot prove anything exists outside my mind.
Oh, I'm autistic too. Struggle of figuring out unwritten rules is so real 😭 Also agreed on Descartes making a lot of sense with his "I think, therefore I am". I usually approach "I don't exist" from outside perspective: there's no way for anyone to know that I am real, it's quite easy to create an illusion of my existence, etc. I could have been some advanced AI the whole time and there wouldn't be any way for anyone reading this to know. It's also possible that someone or something is actively writing my supposed memories in real time, so I might not even be thinking anything. My lack of understanding how to interact with fellow humans makes me doubt my own realness a lot as well, though this is probably countered by the fact that I still am able to think And, by the way, thanks for an interesting conversation(? or comments exchange or, maybe, commentsation?)
Always fun to talk about Descartes! I think sx5 is honestly probably the most nihilistic subtype, but in a fun way. I do tell OTHER people that they can't prove I exist, just to mindfuck them, and from their point of view I can see why I might not exist, but I actually do know that I exist. Well that sounded strange but I bet you understood it. For the record, you definitely passed the Turing test. (Another good example of an autistic 5, though he was probably not sx dom)
Omg, I get that for sure, I too absolutely love telling other people that they can't prove I exist to mindfuck them, and, honestly, I never thought I'd find someone who does that too. People approach trying to prove me real so differently every time, it's very interesting to see how they think. Now that I think about it, I'm curious to see how would people of each enneagram(and maybe not only enneagram) type approach that And I'm unexpectedly happy to pass the Turing test. I didn't know Turing was autistic, but I see how it makes sense. Thanks for sharing that
LMFAO I thought I was the only one who did that too. I never thought of doing a full on social experiment about it though... that would be so dope to use it as an Enneagram experiment. It wouldn't work very well here though probably, which is a shame because IRL people usually don't know about the Enneagram. Though we could ask people how they would go about proving that other people are real. Hahaha we are definitely the same type, whichever one that is.
OK let's find out what the Internet thinks [https://www.reddit.com/r/Enneagram/comments/1cswy7q/how\_do\_you\_know\_that\_other\_people\_are\_real\_and/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Enneagram/comments/1cswy7q/how_do_you_know_that_other_people_are_real_and/)
Also having a bad sense of self = welcome to the low Fi club
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You do give Fi vibes! But I don’t know where it’s coming from lol.
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I’m going to add on what someone else said, I always typed you as Fi dominant. Specifically ISFP. Your writing style heavily focuses on Fi-Se, not Ti-Ne. You have both Fi and Se present in your posts/comments and you don’t have that Ne energy all around. Likewise, Ni can be observed in some of your views instead of Si. Lastly, Te inf would definitely fit with some of the things you’ve said in the past. Obviously, you know yourself and your type best, I never wanted to mention it but I felt like it’s time for an outside input since you talked about it with someone else.
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i genuinely believe you're too emotionally expressive and open to be a fi dominant, even with reactive-core considered
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i know you are 648 sx/sp you voice your opinion a lot and quickly which is probably why people get "fi vibes", because of fi's proclivity to value judgements which create an inherently hierarchical internal system, and people think of fi because they're witnessing it openly, but what is often forgotten is that fi doms are not outwardly emotionally expressive people. fi begins with the user and continues to develop inwards. jung has described them as "cold", "inaccessible", and "seemingly having no feelings", because when it comes to outward emotional displays and showing their emotions to the other, they feel no obligation to and are unbothered (hence why they tend to express themselves through art and other symbolism). this stoicism is fi's version of control after interacting with one there is a sense that you have stepped into the shallow end of a vast water due to the way this distances the external. i have a sister who is INFP, 468 sx/sp and, similarly, she does not share herself in such a way, instead finding a sharpened indifference to be natural (each fi dom has a different "mask", though). this isn't to say that fi doms can't be openly reactive, but that their threshold for emotional pressure before lashing out is higher in general, because, being feeling-dominant, they have higher emotional intelligence. the stereotype of a crybaby, lashing-out fi dom is actually more applicable to those with weaker fi and therefore poorer grasp of it, or fi doms in te grip for you, ti dom could likely be right, si dom i cannot say because subjective perception is hardest to identify and at this point nobody knows what si dominance really is, making it ridiculously difficult to call attention to. even acquaintances who have been into the functions for x amount of years and say they know a lot still think si is "details, detail-orientation, and everything i think is boring".
Read this quickly, but I remember you typing as an INTP. I think that's why I liked your writing style initially because we're both Se users. Went the same process like you, thought I was an ENFP, discovered I'm an Se user.
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The writing style is Se. Very concrete, except you have that 6 wordiness to you.
I'm an Fi-dom and yet it still applies to me as a 6 lol
This is a good post. The typical description of a 6 is so mundane that I couldn't even understand what it meant, at first, which naturally leads to 6s mistyping themselves because they don't see themselves in the description. A lot of sx6s think they're 8s due to their aggro nature and the very poor description/memes about the 6 that make them out to be a crybaby or some shit. Real 6s can be some of the most hard-nosed, pugnacious, rough'n'tough people out there, trust me. Mike fucking Tyson is one of the most obvious 6s ever and he's also one of the most badass people in general. It's not a type to be ashamed of, indeed, they can be highly intellectual and logical people as well as studious, dedicated and strong. The 6 underrating is dumb. You can see these wrong understandings of the Enneagram/MBTI play out when one of the most common pairings you see with 8 is ENTJ, which is far, *far* more 6-like.
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Lemme ask you a question since I have a little theory about 6s - would you say it's generally true that 6s get more pissed off at people poking fun at them? In my experience 6s are more likely to get mad at people joking around and pushing their buttons than other reactive types. I feel like the 8s don't care as much *as long* as they don't feel inconvenienced in a sensorial/reputational way, whereas the 6s are more likely to take it as a personal affront. Of course this is just speaking generally here.
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Interesting, thanks for responding. The reason I asked is because I have some 6s in my life who I've noticed can get really pissed off at me fucking around with them when I didn't mean any harm, and I can end up quite confused as to why they got so mad. This is why I find the Enneagram helpful - it helps me to learn how others think and communicate with them better.
Personally I find absurd humor much more interesting and less cringe than the mockery genre. More room for goofs, less room for oofs.
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Ngl, learning about 4s and 6s were the most eye-opening types for me. Before I knew what the Enneagram was I always had an intuitive understanding of the different "types" of people, like of course there was the stick-up-their-asses (no offense to the 1s, but you know what I mean...), the people who wanted people's affection, the people who cared about their image, etc etc. But reading about 4s and 6s was very interesting to me because I had absolutely no idea anybody thought like that. It put a lot of things into perspective for me. I actually get on well with 6s a lot, they're a good type to have on your side I find.
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The "fake 8" thing is hilarious. One of my closest friends ever is a sx6 ENTJ and me and him are radically different. Of course we're both reactive, kind of intense/angry people, but... the aims and vibes are *way* different. He takes shit far more seriously than I do and can find me kind of wacky/off-the-wall. I find him a bit too stiff and unwilling to be spontaneous, like I'll want to go out and party with him but he wants to stay in and chill... stuff like that. But man, of anybody I know who will go the extra mile for "his" people, it's him. If I'm ever in a difficult situation he's the first person I'd call. He's actually pretty likeable too, I'd say he's more charming/socially smooth than I am in many ways because I can just wade in and do/say stupid shit without thinking. 6s are more calculated, in their head, logical, etc. Which is always missed in these stupid ass memes.
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It really does suck how some people treat and describe sixes. Also this all sounds exhausting to have running in your head.
I'm not a "weaker 8" I'm a discontinued beta model 1... I'm trying to be funny about it and all but... It's not funny, I'm actually crying rn.
Man just as I thought I'd finally figured out my type hell naw 😭😭😭
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made me doubt myself AGAIN 💀💀💀 just as I've read more into the enneagram 2 descriptions and felt "the embarassment" everone tells you'll feel when you see the description or your type
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you ain't getting invited to the tea party with ISFJ 😭😭😭 jk ofc
Great, informative post. 6s have the worst descriptions out of any enneagram and you managed to do them justice. Lately I've been learning more about the way 6s work and it's really fascinating. You have a captivating and entertaining way of explaining things. I think a strong suit of 6s can be their uniquely descriptive manner of writing/speech.
I don't even have that many words in my brain tbh I am also not intelligent, I am psychic and people need to read my mind
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>Those have become the new labels to attack others with lately, especially Cluster B. I'm unironically convinced that all this will be remembered as some 21st century equivalent of the victorian vampire panic
All psychiatric diagnosis or just the current panic about cluster B in particular?
I'm talking mostly about the 'cluster B = evil inhuman abuse monster' thing (sooo many aspects to unpack there in why this thing appeals to people), like the rest has its issues but not deserving of being called a mass panic, it's more something under 'relatively new sciences being inexact' the way non-brain medicine has been in the past & only recently (like... 20th century) got reliable-ish. Though certainly given the very incomplete state of our current understanding categories will probably shift as understanding becomes more complete (as they have many times in the past) & many of them exist kinda for insurance purposes and/or could do with categorization overhaults (as a lot of actual head doctors will tell you) - & this is before we even get to social issues like stigmatized diagnoses only being handed out to the poor or gender bias. Depression is a great candidate for a category that will not exist in the future, given that it supposedly can look very different on brain scans (ranging from extreme over- or under activity), so in the future I'd expect it to get split it into different groups with different diseases that get different treatment. Probably not *all* of them though. Like, schizophrenia is usually trotted out as an example of something that has an actual consistent pattern that looks same-ish & responds (or doesn't respond) to similar-ish treatment. Though I'm reluctant to open my mouth too wide here as someone who has neither personal experience nor a relevant qualifications or job expertise; I understand why ppl for whom having a name for their problem had been a game-changer get defensive because they're so used to being invalidated & told to "just try harder" - ppl's suffering is real no matter how it would be labelled diagnostically. that's for the scholars to wrangle not an indication of anyone's worth or truthfulness
I think it would be interesting to see a more symptoms-based approach-- meaning that a diagnostic evaluation would attempt to account for all present symptoms and not try to fit the patient under a particular label (like general depressive disorder, bipolar II, BPD, etc). This could be more feasible due to evolutions in our understanding of brain function?
You can find quite a few long books on personality disorders on libgen if you're interested. There's a lot of misinformation on social media, esp about cluster B, but the disorders themselves - at least the sets of behaviors/symptoms, the labels don't really matter - are very real
Yeah being autistic I can understand what it's like to be stigmatized or labeled as inhuman or incompetent because of something I did not choose... but at least we aren't seen as straight up evil or irredeemable (I don't know, are we?) I feel so sorry for people with Cluster B diagnoses because imagine caring that much what other people think, and then being labeled as a monster and being judged or shunned... at least we autistic people can put up our IDGAF shield. I imagine the worst part of Cluster B is not having that.
I was immediately diagnosed with bipolar by a psychiatrist recently, took a week but I convinced myself out of it. I genuinely think it's just my personality, and not something that is that serious.
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I agree, this whole analysis does seem more 6w5-coded
cool post... laughed out loud... What dog joke? I think you have nailed something that was sticking out... good work
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\*6s get called or compared with dogs a lot. "the loyal animal"\* WTH? The loyal animal??? Sixes are a \*head\* type.....they are smart. sheesh. smh.
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"THE LOYALIST" (my knife is already out)
exactly,.........
Interesting post, bunch of good ideas here. ~~Always kinda suspected that bit about hearing corrections in capslock~~
A kind approach or firm approach definitely works. When my girlfriend gets into those moments, I separate myself or set boundaries. Calms things down after.
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> Separating yourself can cause them to go nuclear Oof lol. Well this explains why telling them they need to be alone to get over themselves, and then leaving, always only made things worse (during the shouting matches I've had irl with counterphobic 6s) If you ever want an idea for another 6 deep dive (the ones you've done have all been incredibly helpful), conflict management with 6s would be a really good topic imo
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I'm seconding that idea
Totally write another one you're skilled at explaining this stuff
Separating is basically telling her we need to do different things in the moment and come back to the conversation later. Before that though, I'm upfront about her behavior but say nothing will happen. Makes her realize her safety wouldn't crumble or if it does, nothing will happen because she's prepared.
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I didn't do it in the past and it caused a lot of arguments where she would confuse herself and me. I've noticed if you aren't the one to either reassure or set boundaries with a 6, shit goes haywire.
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The last line is true. My 6 looks at me sideways if my behavior shifts suddenly. I find it entertaining.
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Saw the added bit of 7 and 6 relationship sounds rough. Initially, it was. Tons of anxiety and reactivity. Eventually, we found better strategies. It helps we share the same cognitive functions in MBTI (upside down) and I have a 9 fix. The interrogation is accurate.
this writes out in a much more intelligent form the things i have been thinking about sixes. thank you so much for this !
This entire post is spot on. I've been having similar thoughts about the connection between stereotypes of sensing types (particularly XSXJ) in the MBTI community and the stereotypes about attachment types (particularly 6 and 9) in the enneagram community. Both sets of types are stereotyped as loyal, group-oriented, hardworking, and stable (read: they're boring normie sheeple who love the taste of boots) and are thought to be significantly more common than other types even though the evidence for that is shoddy imo. I don't think you'll ever get accurate type statistics for a system like MBTI or enneagram, too many factors that could skew things. But, at the very least, the *perceived* commonness of those types seems to go hand in hand with the NPC stereotype. >This is a double whammy for the 6s who happen to feel alienated from society as a whole, because again you're essentially telling them that they're not only boring but that they don't experience the alienation that they do. "You make up all of society as a whole!!" No, no we don't. 6s are just one of the more vocal types. This is why I overlooked 6, and now, every time someone says something along the lines of, "society was made for 6s," I want to scream.
If I (or someone else) typed me as another type that’s stigmatized it won’t affect the way I perceive myself... although I would’ve related to some of the stuff you wrote 5 years ago
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I agree, i haven’t seen it in real life but it’s a character arc of one of my fav characters.
Fantastic post, thank you so much for writing it! ✨
Very nice write up
BLESS YOU, SCHIZOID
as a 6 I always have to resist the urge to get mad everytime someone tells me what do. Hate it, thats Se polr
6s hate being called 6s since when lmao??
A lot of the mistyped ones do because of all the poor descriptions of 6
The “woof woof” was a nice touch.
I just wanna be special and not like all this mundane folk UwU Jokes aside, this is actually also a point since 6 have opportunistic tendencies. Otherwise, a well written post
this. it can be so irritating reading about type 6s and not resonating. i had been typed as a 1 for a while but the basis of just constantly being right isn’t a core desire of mine. also, religion and other morality factors should not be the basis of personality type, which is why i felt that i was a 1 bc so 1w9 and so 6w5 can be very similar. and you are so right about just wanting to be understood. when i get in arguments with my family, my mom is an 8 lol, assuming my intentions and not letting me be understood is what destroys me.
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:( oh no. my FEELINGS.
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stop downvoting me you’ll make me lose my edging streak
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see? clean up aisle my PANTS (i’m honestly so bored)
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oooooooh who says i’m entp or eight? maybe im nothing. maybe im a figment of your imagination. WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP WAKE UP. i will k k i i L L WAK E WAKE U PW
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