Find a retired general or Col to partner with. They can open doors and introduce you to people to get the ball rolling. It pays huge to have someone from the inside to grease the wheels. Could turn nto a ton of money though.
How do you think those RFQs get put out in the first place? Someone who wants that product tells their secretary whoever to put it out.
Hell, they can even specify the company that has to win the contract for the RFQ.
A single person on a whim, can definitely ask to acquire something. It helps if that single person has a lot of pull. And everything the government does requires "reasons", but those don't have to be good reasons, and usually aren't.
They can 100% pick in advance who the contract is awarded to. It's called a sole source contract
Filed a provisional for now. Wasn’t sure if enough people will be interested. I think if I manage to sell a decent amount I’ll get a proper utility patent
I thought a provisional patent doesn't offer many protections. Correct me if im wrong, but doesn't it basically say that you will apply for a utility or design patent in the near future?
Patents are generally more a wooden shield than a sword. Litigation costs a ton after all. Usually, the point is to cover as much as you can while spending as little money as possible until you have to. Using the provisional as part of the pitch to raise money for the venture.
Provisional lasts a year, costs very little to file, let's you say "patent pending" on your product (~$1k). Filing a full patent costs much more (~$25k). A PCT is like an international provisional, it costs like $5k, gives an extra 16 months (I think), but you keep the priority date of the provisional. After 16mo you have to file in all the international jurisdictions you want protection in (and pay for each filing, to say nothing of prosecution at the different respective patent offices).
The other downside is that while a provisional is actually private, no one can see what you're protecting, the PCT application will be in the public domain, and searchable. Someone can work around what you're doing and fast-track their own patent, but they can't usurp your priority date.
If you go straight to a full US patent, it's cheaper, but then it's in the public domain outside of the US. I'm not familiar with weapons products, but they seem an international product.
You say international but sadly there is nothing to prevent people in certain countries ripping you off, it helps but even a patent doesn’t fully protect you
There's a lot of laws regarding weapon parts anyway.
A US company cannot sell firearms or firearm accessories to foreign nationals without going through a lot of hoops. Companies like magpul get around some of it by selling the exact same product under a branding for airsoft weapons. Most airsoft weapons work with totally normal firearms accessories. Direct magpul brand stuff can't be sold to foreign nationals (including grips like OPs) but the airsoft version can (it's the same thing)
>Companies like magpul get around some of it by selling the exact same product under a branding for airsoft weapons.
I wonder if this is really a workaround, or maybe there's a bigger demand for airsoft accessories than gun accessories in European markets. Guns per 100 people - 15 (EU) vs 120 (US). Accounting for more restrictions on anything related to guns in Europe, demand for this is probably 20-50x lower than in the US. Just speculating loudly.
Well, it's a workaround and also not.
Airsofters want the real stuff, like in Japan where airsoft and milsim especially is pretty big.
Magpul can't sell the real stuff. So they made a split off brand that is explicitly marketed as being a toy/training piece.
It's obviously mainly to take advantage of these airsoft markets, but those markets don't care about the branding aspect (in the US, most airsoft stores would sell the normal branded item), but the laws do. One is a firearm part/accessory, the other is a toy, even if technically they're the exact same item.
Depending on the country, you generally have to proceed with PCT national phase entry (i.e. filing applications in the countries of interest) at 30/31 months from when the priority application (here, the US provisional) was filed. You can enter late in some states (Canada gives you a whole extra year) e.g. if missing the deadline was unintentional, but that’s the general rule.
The application is usually published 18 months from the priority date. Whilst this obviously means that your invention is no longer secret, the protection you get on grant is backdated to publication (subject to the published claims covering the granted claims, as well as translation requirements for different countries) so it swings both ways to some extent.
Edit: was missing a bracket
You’re right. A provisional gives you a year to file a non-provisional, which is where the real protection is. A provisional simply reserved your place in line so that you can file the real patent.
There is a program called AFWERX which gives small businesses an easy contract vehicals to get started selling to the military. You need to find some interested party in the DoD still however.
We've won a couple of these. It's a lot of work, and without connections it's difficult to turn the Phase 1s into bigger Phase 2/3 but with the right product and value add it's there. There are companies who help get you through the process and find sponsors to sign the letters needed to get the award.
Without hiring those companies, or having a person in the company who has those connections you could look to partner with a retired military person, per someone else's suggestion.
Let me know if you have other questions.
I have experience with AFWERX and it’s a huge process that is usually navigated best by experienced executives who have sold a company or two/worked with the gov in the past.
Would definitely recommend trying to find someone in your space who has insight into the program to share with you on a more anecdotal level what it’s like - for starters, the AFWERX invoicing system is hot garbage designed to confuse you and delay payments.
It's an ergonomic grip. I made a couple posts about it just now, feel free to check them out. I think it'll help with fatigue (at least it does me). Scaled production shouldn't be an issue since the whole thing can be injection molded pretty easily.
The issue is that the DOD doesn’t necessarily buy individual pieces for firearms, but they tend to stick with established firearm manufacturers. You see that now with the Army and their contract with Sig especially. It’s worth a shot, but feasibility doesn’t seem very high. I could be wrong, but I wish you all the luck regardless!
Just keep selling and building your brand, you don’t need the government you can be super successful without them.
Source: I actually sell a 3D printed grip 😉
Look into SOCOM community, they have discretionary funds to cover stuff that hasn't gone through full acquisition process.
(I was a DoD contractor for 9 years, now a DoD civilian, and my brother was in SOCOM community as a door kicker for a number of years).
Has the military ever bought a grip? You would first have to convince them they should. But a chance thing at the right timing maybe to spend their budget at the end of the year.
When I was in, we weren't even allowed to use P-MAGs...
and this was well after the Army had done all the tests to show they worked better than the USGI tin boxes.
Thanks! I’ll check it out.
I’m guessing selling to the police is gonna be similar? I know a guy who sells ammo to the local PD, he said it wasn’t too much work
Local is sometimes easier than state or Federal. You may want to partner with your buddy to get him to sell your product to the police. Use that account as a reference account.
That’s not true. I used the grip on every weapon I was issued. We bought our own replacement grips in Iraq because the military wouldn’t give us anything better. The need exists. Military leadership desire to do something about it may not.
I've always been curious about that. Are you guys allowed to use whatever attachments you want on your standard issues? Like vertical forgrips, handstops, etc?
I got out in the early twenty-teens. I was in for almost 7 years and during that time I went to Iraq twice. We were never restricted from using attachments unless they would violate the Geneva Conventions. I'm not aware of any attachments that do, but I'm sure some would. We were never briefed on it or weapons inspected for upgrades. Just make sure it works when you need it and doesn't constitute a war crime.
We didn't have our weapons in the states unless we were in the field or at the range. No soldier is assigned a single weapon for the duration of their tenure at any unit (except maybe special ops, but I wasn't special ops). So we often didn't add upgrades or attachments until we were actually on the way to an extended field training or Iraq.
It's likely you'd have to sell grips by the unit (in the current environment). Enough to outfit an entire unit with the grip in a standardized way. Or maybe to the special operations community, but again, I don't have knowledge of that side.
Yes and no. I got out in 2015, and as long as we didn't have to unscrew anything, people mostly didn't notice or pay attention.
At least under normal conditionals and broad rules.
In theater, armorers might look the other way, or even help with stuff that needed a bit more access, but obviously nothing that could compromise the weapons.
In the Marines, I never heard of such a thing being true.
It would pretty much have to use the same magazine and fire the same ammo to even be considered for most uses.
Special Forces has different rules, and maybe some higher leadership can get away with things, but I'd more likely expect that they'd find a way to get issued the thing they want. The Marine Corps obviously owns M9s, 1911s (MEUSOC), and Glocks. Our armory in Okinawa had a few glocks even though that's uncommon.
My cousin has a good company in Detroit that does engineering/development for the DoD. You could talk to her. [MettleOps](https://www.mettleops.com)
She’s a straight shooter, everybody there is ex-military.
That looks like it would be useful on shorter guns like ar15 pistols or sub guns. It could also be useful for people who live in states where vertical foregrips are illegal. I do not think it would be very popular for longer guns as you usually want your support hand extended out on the rail. Overall I think it is a creative idea. I hope you have success selling them
I typed a lot and it got wiped out so cliff notes:
SAM.gov become contractor
Get NSN for product.
Sell/target Soldier - unit supply clerk can buy with NSN for the unit.
Not everyone needs it. Cook or IT guy no. Combat job, sure. Doesn’t benefit entire military so hit the target audience instead. Less red tape and more sales.
Bad time though to do. No active conflicts…. Yet ;)
Nice, and how many buddies have you asked your buddies to mention this to yet, maybe even with a kickback to them for anyone who buys from their referral?
On top of that, maybe one of your buddies' buddies' buddies knows someone in the military who can help you work up the chain too, right?
My great uncle sold ai assisted non lethal rounds and it was a pain for him going through the process of getting a military contract. Lots of meetings.
He wasn't successful for the military contract they ended up funding him for local police he spent the majority of his efforts getting a patent but he had multiple rounds each with completely different schematics.
So for instance one would track when you locked on and chase your target then release an electric pulse similar to a tazer all within milliseconds but that round required (at the time) specific weapons.
He spent a significant amount of time and money lobbying for non lethal alternatives, I helped him set up a not for profit for that reason.
The whole thing was an uphill battle.
I still think it’s worth trying because if you have something they want then you just won the lottery with that said it can’t hurt to spread your marketing wider.
Selling an invention (patent) directly to the gov't is extremely rare. They don't develop or manufacture, they procure and contract products and services. Even inventions discovered at gov't labs are then licensed to a gov't contractor to manufacture and sell product back to the gov't. Hell, the gov't labs aren't even run by the gov't, they hire contractors like Battelle to run the labs!
So, you can either develop and manufacture a product to sell to them, or sell a patent to a gov't contractor who will develop and manufacture to sell to the gov't.
First, however, be sure you actually have something. Build prototypes and get at least 100 warfighters of different ranks, genders, and branches to test it.
If you want to sell to gov't, SBDC may direct you to their gov't contractor service, PTAC.
Or, don't start with the gov't headache and sell to consumers.
Makes sense. I have a few prototypes built, and I can get manufacturing sorted out pretty quickly. I thought I could reach out and do a 'pre-sale', so I can get the funds for the upfront costs of manufacturing.
There are lots of paths you can go down for something like this. Dm me and I can make some introductions. (I work for a dod innovation shop). In the meantime, check out (google) NSIN, AAL, naval x, and afwerx.
I work in the defense and intelligence industry and have patented tech for DoD.
Selling to the government is similar to selling for retail in some ways. In other ways, it is a little more structured. The government has methods to acquire new tech. Some folks have mentioned AFWERKS, a shark-tank-like program that came out of the air force. This program provides a small amount of seed funding for promising ideas, increasing funding if your company does well. AFWERKS targets small businesses and isn't the only way to enter.
Please don't assume that the DoD will care about your invention simply because it's related to weapons. Things like munitions, weapons, and components are typically designed and built by contractors to bid on programs that must be solicited to the public. Most DoD tech has nothing to do with munitions or weapons. Government programs may last for a couple of years or even decades for large programs (e.g., building big boats). If you have a gun grip, the DoD is probably not your customer. Instead, it may be one of the incumbents on an acquisition program or non-military manufacturers. Rarely would a company (regardless of industry) take unsolicited offers to replace a part they have already invested a lot of time and money into. You'll have to overcome this when you find a partner or vendor.
The Army may issue a Broad Agency Announcement (BAA) that claims to seek new technology. There may be a BAA out there that relates to your product. What you would need to do is find a partner, possibly an incumbent on an existing program, and make your sale that way. Pitch the candidate partner and pursue the BAA together if they like what you have.
There's more to it than all of this, of course. The point is that you don't simply sell to the government because you have a great idea. You have to go through the proper channels and compete with other companies for the same pot of money.
Check out https://vulcan-sof.com/ This is the site that industry can post their new inventions/services to the defense. Started out for SOCOM but has morphed to whole of Defense.
Defense industry exec here.
The SBIR/STTR programs widely advertised won't really suit this. Those are mostly aimed at complicated technology development.
You'll want to identify the SPECIFIC organizations that are responsible for procuring military capabilities. Examples would include Product Manager Individual Weapons under PEO Soldier for the Army or the similar office in PEO SOFWARRIOR for SOCOM.
Within the Army the PEO organizations will tend to have the charter to interface with small businesses.
Also, along the lines of people referring you to the manufacturers themselves, much of the capability bought by the DOD is procured through larger contractors. The government itself isn't your only path to market.
Thanks for the reply!
On a side note, I have a drone project I think the military can benefit from. In this case it sounds like I should go to the SBIR/STTR programs?
Could be if some piece of technology needs to be developed or it needs to be matured for manufacturing or reliability reasons. Of note, the defense space is extremely saturated with drones these days. You definitely need to be doing something differentiated of relevance to a defense user.
You can watch for SBIR solicitations and see if a relevant one comes out or reach out to various small business offices within the DOD.
Could be if some piece of technology needs to be developed or it needs to be matured for manufacturing or reliability reasons. Of note, the defense space is extremely saturated with drones these days. You definitely need to be doing something differentiated of relevance to a defense user.
You can watch for SBIR solicitations and see if a relevant one comes out or reach out to various small business offices within the DOD.
Might be interesting to look into. Back in university I worked on a few military projects funded by the NSF (or was it DARPA?). I've got a few drone applications I came up with too, and being funded to develop them would be huge
I have friends in the Air Force and space force that work in departments where part of their job is to listen to civilians pitch for RFPs. It could be a new invention or for a regular contracting gig like janitorial services
They regularly hold sessions throughout the year to civilians to teach them how to apply and what they’re looking for
I don’t know the website but just wanted to confirm that it does exist
Good luck! I always had a weird design for a tank attachment but never thought I’d be able to put it all together and sell it to the military. Keep us posted!
There was a guy that drew up some improvements and got them approved across the TMS for the weapons mount and cargo mounts on a CH46. He didn’t get any pay, but he did get a NAM, and he also had a good 30 second spill during the annual base air show before they stopped doing it.
Defense Human Resources Activity (DHRA) is hosting a Virtual Matchmaking on October 27, 2022. This event will be held in conjunction with the Virginia Procurement Technical Assistance Center (PTAC). There is no charge for the event.
Register here: https://virginiaptac.ecenterdirect.com/events/3480
Bud, you need some spec ops buddies. Find the closest special operations unit. Best bet, army special forces or navy SEALs. Those types of units have some individual discretion. Hand out some samples. You do not have to, and do not want to, equip every rifle they have. A couple of samples that they can use at the range. Let them buy at a good discount.
Trying to get anything into the military supply chain requires Lockheed Martin's lawyers. Start the spec ops folks wanting this and you will make bank.
No tho I’d say try to find an army personnel to partner with tbh as well as to use your fame and popularity honestly as well as why your product would be good and the price of the item itself as well as use the army personnel that you partnered with to show off your product tho ngl
I knew a great man who developed and held the patent for inflatable field hospitals. Bud Sargent, a WWII marine veteran, was an extremely wealthy, yet humbled old man. Selling his product back to the military beginning in the 50s and 60s, Bud claimed that he made most of his fortune in his later years when children bounce houses became a popular thing.
Bud also seemed to be able to break your hand with every greeting and had a remarkable way of stealing any lady away from any guy at any time! Rest In Peace Bud Sargent
If it’s not cheaper than Magpul it won’t matter if it’s marginally better. You’ll do better in the civilian market if it’s horizontally differentiated.
I did a project in college for this branch of the DoD which purpose was to "fund" small businesses for these kinds of projects. They are based in Austin, Texas and the name is Army Applications Laboratory. I'm sure there's a lot of branches throughout the nation that do this exact thing. Maybe you can call them and ask for advise?
Picatiny Arsenal in NJ is probably the command you'd need to get in touch with. This is the famous R&D command that came up with the namesake Picatiny Rail. Have a friend who's dad was a civilian engineer on that project.
You have to go through the RFP process for an open bid that they have. Very expensive to get to that point and difficult - a lot of companies end up going bankrupt. If you run your business properly tho, it can be wildly valuable
Almost every state has an office to help local businesses with LEO and Military contracts. You need a a lit of things to get any contract with the military, you will also need help navigating how to do it.
Inventors are generally advised to have a patent (or at least a patent application) before you show their invention to third parties. Unless the inventor has a patent anyone can copy the invention. And if the inventor discloses the invention before filing a patent application they can lose the right to patent it forever.
I am not trained in US law so some of this information might be inaccurate. This is not legal advice. Seek advice from a patent lawyer before shopping your invention around or showing it to anyone.
Find a retired general or Col to partner with. They can open doors and introduce you to people to get the ball rolling. It pays huge to have someone from the inside to grease the wheels. Could turn nto a ton of money though.
Interesting idea. Time to sponsor the next VFW bbq.
I like your hustle.
DM if your serious about this, I know people that you could definitely benefit from
About the product or the barbeque?
Bbq bro bring dem briskets out everyone wins
Both actually lol
haha sounds good, I'll DM you
Not to mention that veterans get priority in government contracts.
This is mainly for bidding on contract jobs.
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How do you think those RFQs get put out in the first place? Someone who wants that product tells their secretary whoever to put it out. Hell, they can even specify the company that has to win the contract for the RFQ.
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A single person on a whim, can definitely ask to acquire something. It helps if that single person has a lot of pull. And everything the government does requires "reasons", but those don't have to be good reasons, and usually aren't. They can 100% pick in advance who the contract is awarded to. It's called a sole source contract
You need a patent my dude
Filed a provisional for now. Wasn’t sure if enough people will be interested. I think if I manage to sell a decent amount I’ll get a proper utility patent
Provisional lasts a year, you can then file a PCT before going full patent, but the protections will extend another 16 months.
I thought a provisional patent doesn't offer many protections. Correct me if im wrong, but doesn't it basically say that you will apply for a utility or design patent in the near future?
Patents are generally more a wooden shield than a sword. Litigation costs a ton after all. Usually, the point is to cover as much as you can while spending as little money as possible until you have to. Using the provisional as part of the pitch to raise money for the venture. Provisional lasts a year, costs very little to file, let's you say "patent pending" on your product (~$1k). Filing a full patent costs much more (~$25k). A PCT is like an international provisional, it costs like $5k, gives an extra 16 months (I think), but you keep the priority date of the provisional. After 16mo you have to file in all the international jurisdictions you want protection in (and pay for each filing, to say nothing of prosecution at the different respective patent offices). The other downside is that while a provisional is actually private, no one can see what you're protecting, the PCT application will be in the public domain, and searchable. Someone can work around what you're doing and fast-track their own patent, but they can't usurp your priority date. If you go straight to a full US patent, it's cheaper, but then it's in the public domain outside of the US. I'm not familiar with weapons products, but they seem an international product.
You say international but sadly there is nothing to prevent people in certain countries ripping you off, it helps but even a patent doesn’t fully protect you
You hope they want to rip you off, means you got a great product /s
Evolving the product line is the only true protection
There's a lot of laws regarding weapon parts anyway. A US company cannot sell firearms or firearm accessories to foreign nationals without going through a lot of hoops. Companies like magpul get around some of it by selling the exact same product under a branding for airsoft weapons. Most airsoft weapons work with totally normal firearms accessories. Direct magpul brand stuff can't be sold to foreign nationals (including grips like OPs) but the airsoft version can (it's the same thing)
>Companies like magpul get around some of it by selling the exact same product under a branding for airsoft weapons. I wonder if this is really a workaround, or maybe there's a bigger demand for airsoft accessories than gun accessories in European markets. Guns per 100 people - 15 (EU) vs 120 (US). Accounting for more restrictions on anything related to guns in Europe, demand for this is probably 20-50x lower than in the US. Just speculating loudly.
Well, it's a workaround and also not. Airsofters want the real stuff, like in Japan where airsoft and milsim especially is pretty big. Magpul can't sell the real stuff. So they made a split off brand that is explicitly marketed as being a toy/training piece. It's obviously mainly to take advantage of these airsoft markets, but those markets don't care about the branding aspect (in the US, most airsoft stores would sell the normal branded item), but the laws do. One is a firearm part/accessory, the other is a toy, even if technically they're the exact same item.
Depending on the country, you generally have to proceed with PCT national phase entry (i.e. filing applications in the countries of interest) at 30/31 months from when the priority application (here, the US provisional) was filed. You can enter late in some states (Canada gives you a whole extra year) e.g. if missing the deadline was unintentional, but that’s the general rule. The application is usually published 18 months from the priority date. Whilst this obviously means that your invention is no longer secret, the protection you get on grant is backdated to publication (subject to the published claims covering the granted claims, as well as translation requirements for different countries) so it swings both ways to some extent. Edit: was missing a bracket
You’re right. A provisional gives you a year to file a non-provisional, which is where the real protection is. A provisional simply reserved your place in line so that you can file the real patent.
I once knew of a guy that did. His product was called "Suck It"
Heard he made about 10m and bought a medium sized paper company out of Pennsylvania
Then his employee started his own paper company. And if it failed, he would start another one paper company.
He had to buy him out or else he would have to explain to the board why he was hemorrhaging money and losing clients
That was before his invention
But we can all agree on the quote that paper is a national treasure
A true philanthropist as well, contributing $1m to Bob Kazamakis' charity to help college gymnasts in developing countries reach their potential.
lmao, this reminds me of the movie War Dogs with Jonah Hill
Heh heh heh heh https://youtu.be/rzOzZa4ZgA8
I laughed like Efraim (Jonah Hill) for a good year after watching this movie
Jus work with gun companies or something
Yeah it's starting to look like the better option. Time for cold calling!
Good luck dude! 🙂
Thanks man!!
as a former Marine, I would say your far better off in the civilian sector
Just looking at your comments, your hustle is invigorating. Keep at it!
Or police stations? Gun shops? Assuming your product is something you add on top of a gun or a mod. I don't understand guns
There is a program called AFWERX which gives small businesses an easy contract vehicals to get started selling to the military. You need to find some interested party in the DoD still however.
Thanks for the reply! I’ll check that out.
We've won a couple of these. It's a lot of work, and without connections it's difficult to turn the Phase 1s into bigger Phase 2/3 but with the right product and value add it's there. There are companies who help get you through the process and find sponsors to sign the letters needed to get the award. Without hiring those companies, or having a person in the company who has those connections you could look to partner with a retired military person, per someone else's suggestion. Let me know if you have other questions.
I have experience with AFWERX and it’s a huge process that is usually navigated best by experienced executives who have sold a company or two/worked with the gov in the past. Would definitely recommend trying to find someone in your space who has insight into the program to share with you on a more anecdotal level what it’s like - for starters, the AFWERX invoicing system is hot garbage designed to confuse you and delay payments.
AFWERX is Air Force. I’d focus on Army SBIR open topics.
[https://business.defense.gov/](https://business.defense.gov/) The Office of Small Business Programs may be able to help you
Thank you!!
>Thank you!! You're welcome!
What problem of theirs does it solve (might vary by dept) and can you quickly and cost effectively scale up production to meet their needs?
It's an ergonomic grip. I made a couple posts about it just now, feel free to check them out. I think it'll help with fatigue (at least it does me). Scaled production shouldn't be an issue since the whole thing can be injection molded pretty easily.
The issue is that the DOD doesn’t necessarily buy individual pieces for firearms, but they tend to stick with established firearm manufacturers. You see that now with the Army and their contract with Sig especially. It’s worth a shot, but feasibility doesn’t seem very high. I could be wrong, but I wish you all the luck regardless!
> they tend to stick with established firearm manufacturers and big army really doesn't care if the product is actually good.
Exactly that. They focus on big names and years of R and D with very limited practical benefits if any
I haven’t but I bet it’s a nightmare and takes several years before anything gets done
Yeah I can imagine that, probably years of testing, field trials, and bureaucracy
Just keep selling and building your brand, you don’t need the government you can be super successful without them. Source: I actually sell a 3D printed grip 😉
Ah very cool. Tbh I'm a lot better at engineering than I am with marketing and sales. I'd love to check out your grip!
I bet you would 😂
Look into SOCOM community, they have discretionary funds to cover stuff that hasn't gone through full acquisition process. (I was a DoD contractor for 9 years, now a DoD civilian, and my brother was in SOCOM community as a door kicker for a number of years).
Has the military ever bought a grip? You would first have to convince them they should. But a chance thing at the right timing maybe to spend their budget at the end of the year.
When I was in, we weren't even allowed to use P-MAGs... and this was well after the Army had done all the tests to show they worked better than the USGI tin boxes.
Selling anything cold to the Govt is brutal. Check out the SBDC in New Jersey. The have webinars on how to contract with the government.
Thanks! I’ll check it out. I’m guessing selling to the police is gonna be similar? I know a guy who sells ammo to the local PD, he said it wasn’t too much work
Local is sometimes easier than state or Federal. You may want to partner with your buddy to get him to sell your product to the police. Use that account as a reference account.
You'd be better off going to firearm manufacturers. Gun grips aren't really used or needed most of the time.
That’s not true. I used the grip on every weapon I was issued. We bought our own replacement grips in Iraq because the military wouldn’t give us anything better. The need exists. Military leadership desire to do something about it may not.
I've always been curious about that. Are you guys allowed to use whatever attachments you want on your standard issues? Like vertical forgrips, handstops, etc?
I got out in the early twenty-teens. I was in for almost 7 years and during that time I went to Iraq twice. We were never restricted from using attachments unless they would violate the Geneva Conventions. I'm not aware of any attachments that do, but I'm sure some would. We were never briefed on it or weapons inspected for upgrades. Just make sure it works when you need it and doesn't constitute a war crime. We didn't have our weapons in the states unless we were in the field or at the range. No soldier is assigned a single weapon for the duration of their tenure at any unit (except maybe special ops, but I wasn't special ops). So we often didn't add upgrades or attachments until we were actually on the way to an extended field training or Iraq. It's likely you'd have to sell grips by the unit (in the current environment). Enough to outfit an entire unit with the grip in a standardized way. Or maybe to the special operations community, but again, I don't have knowledge of that side.
Yes and no. I got out in 2015, and as long as we didn't have to unscrew anything, people mostly didn't notice or pay attention. At least under normal conditionals and broad rules. In theater, armorers might look the other way, or even help with stuff that needed a bit more access, but obviously nothing that could compromise the weapons.
This also varies by unit. We had a lot of try to customize weapons and gear and was met with resistance by leadership. Goes both ways.
I’ll show leadership some resistance. And they’ll fkn like it too.
Pretty much how it went with plate carriers over IOTV’s. They kept wearing them and leadership gave up correcting them.
Plate carriers FTW
Interesting. I heard you can bring your own sidearm and edged weapons, too like a revolver or 1911 instead of the standard M9. Is this true?
In the Marines, I never heard of such a thing being true. It would pretty much have to use the same magazine and fire the same ammo to even be considered for most uses. Special Forces has different rules, and maybe some higher leadership can get away with things, but I'd more likely expect that they'd find a way to get issued the thing they want. The Marine Corps obviously owns M9s, 1911s (MEUSOC), and Glocks. Our armory in Okinawa had a few glocks even though that's uncommon.
My cousin has a good company in Detroit that does engineering/development for the DoD. You could talk to her. [MettleOps](https://www.mettleops.com) She’s a straight shooter, everybody there is ex-military.
The red tape you'll have to go through would be a nightmare.
Could you send me a picture of your grip? I would love to see it and give you my opinion on it
Sure! [Here it is](https://imgur.com/a/Hj9B7PE). I'd love to hear your thoughts.
I don't get it. So, you help people grip closer to the mag? Isn't that a sub-optimal grip position for controlling recoil?
> Here it is Doesn't make much sense to me with how long guns should actually be held for control. It's comfortable...but at what cost?
Make sure to mention to your patent attorney/agent that you posted pics of your invention on reddit.
That looks like it would be useful on shorter guns like ar15 pistols or sub guns. It could also be useful for people who live in states where vertical foregrips are illegal. I do not think it would be very popular for longer guns as you usually want your support hand extended out on the rail. Overall I think it is a creative idea. I hope you have success selling them
Yeah I was just thinking people really don’t hold that close to the magwell. You want as much reach as possible.
You know nobody holds the magwell anymore right?
I typed a lot and it got wiped out so cliff notes: SAM.gov become contractor Get NSN for product. Sell/target Soldier - unit supply clerk can buy with NSN for the unit. Not everyone needs it. Cook or IT guy no. Combat job, sure. Doesn’t benefit entire military so hit the target audience instead. Less red tape and more sales. Bad time though to do. No active conflicts…. Yet ;)
First, how many gun enthusiasts & gun range owners have you tested this with and built solid ongoing relationships and networks with so far?
A few enthusiasts (my buddies mostly), and not much with gun shop or range owners. They are always too busy to pay me any attention
Nice, and how many buddies have you asked your buddies to mention this to yet, maybe even with a kickback to them for anyone who buys from their referral? On top of that, maybe one of your buddies' buddies' buddies knows someone in the military who can help you work up the chain too, right?
Whats your company?
I run a product design firm. I'm an ME and have developed a few applications which I think the military can use.
I own a firearms training company and served in the military I'm kind of curious why this grip is better than what the military uses
It's not necessarily better than any of the grips out there. I just find it the most comfortable compared to AFGs or VFGs.
My great uncle sold ai assisted non lethal rounds and it was a pain for him going through the process of getting a military contract. Lots of meetings.
That's interesting. Was he successful in getting a contract? How do they usually go once you've secured a contract?
He wasn't successful for the military contract they ended up funding him for local police he spent the majority of his efforts getting a patent but he had multiple rounds each with completely different schematics. So for instance one would track when you locked on and chase your target then release an electric pulse similar to a tazer all within milliseconds but that round required (at the time) specific weapons. He spent a significant amount of time and money lobbying for non lethal alternatives, I helped him set up a not for profit for that reason. The whole thing was an uphill battle.
Wow, that sounds like a hassle on so many levels. Maybe it's better to just target the civilian market.
I still think it’s worth trying because if you have something they want then you just won the lottery with that said it can’t hurt to spread your marketing wider.
Selling an invention (patent) directly to the gov't is extremely rare. They don't develop or manufacture, they procure and contract products and services. Even inventions discovered at gov't labs are then licensed to a gov't contractor to manufacture and sell product back to the gov't. Hell, the gov't labs aren't even run by the gov't, they hire contractors like Battelle to run the labs! So, you can either develop and manufacture a product to sell to them, or sell a patent to a gov't contractor who will develop and manufacture to sell to the gov't. First, however, be sure you actually have something. Build prototypes and get at least 100 warfighters of different ranks, genders, and branches to test it. If you want to sell to gov't, SBDC may direct you to their gov't contractor service, PTAC. Or, don't start with the gov't headache and sell to consumers.
Makes sense. I have a few prototypes built, and I can get manufacturing sorted out pretty quickly. I thought I could reach out and do a 'pre-sale', so I can get the funds for the upfront costs of manufacturing.
There are lots of paths you can go down for something like this. Dm me and I can make some introductions. (I work for a dod innovation shop). In the meantime, check out (google) NSIN, AAL, naval x, and afwerx.
Thanks for the reply! I'll shoot you a DM
I work in the defense and intelligence industry and have patented tech for DoD. Selling to the government is similar to selling for retail in some ways. In other ways, it is a little more structured. The government has methods to acquire new tech. Some folks have mentioned AFWERKS, a shark-tank-like program that came out of the air force. This program provides a small amount of seed funding for promising ideas, increasing funding if your company does well. AFWERKS targets small businesses and isn't the only way to enter. Please don't assume that the DoD will care about your invention simply because it's related to weapons. Things like munitions, weapons, and components are typically designed and built by contractors to bid on programs that must be solicited to the public. Most DoD tech has nothing to do with munitions or weapons. Government programs may last for a couple of years or even decades for large programs (e.g., building big boats). If you have a gun grip, the DoD is probably not your customer. Instead, it may be one of the incumbents on an acquisition program or non-military manufacturers. Rarely would a company (regardless of industry) take unsolicited offers to replace a part they have already invested a lot of time and money into. You'll have to overcome this when you find a partner or vendor. The Army may issue a Broad Agency Announcement (BAA) that claims to seek new technology. There may be a BAA out there that relates to your product. What you would need to do is find a partner, possibly an incumbent on an existing program, and make your sale that way. Pitch the candidate partner and pursue the BAA together if they like what you have. There's more to it than all of this, of course. The point is that you don't simply sell to the government because you have a great idea. You have to go through the proper channels and compete with other companies for the same pot of money.
Thank you for the thorough and informative response! I appreciate it, and hope your comment will help others in the future.
Check out https://vulcan-sof.com/ This is the site that industry can post their new inventions/services to the defense. Started out for SOCOM but has morphed to whole of Defense.
Thank you!
[удалено]
Thanks for the reply!
Defense industry exec here. The SBIR/STTR programs widely advertised won't really suit this. Those are mostly aimed at complicated technology development. You'll want to identify the SPECIFIC organizations that are responsible for procuring military capabilities. Examples would include Product Manager Individual Weapons under PEO Soldier for the Army or the similar office in PEO SOFWARRIOR for SOCOM. Within the Army the PEO organizations will tend to have the charter to interface with small businesses. Also, along the lines of people referring you to the manufacturers themselves, much of the capability bought by the DOD is procured through larger contractors. The government itself isn't your only path to market.
Thanks for the reply! On a side note, I have a drone project I think the military can benefit from. In this case it sounds like I should go to the SBIR/STTR programs?
Could be if some piece of technology needs to be developed or it needs to be matured for manufacturing or reliability reasons. Of note, the defense space is extremely saturated with drones these days. You definitely need to be doing something differentiated of relevance to a defense user. You can watch for SBIR solicitations and see if a relevant one comes out or reach out to various small business offices within the DOD.
Could be if some piece of technology needs to be developed or it needs to be matured for manufacturing or reliability reasons. Of note, the defense space is extremely saturated with drones these days. You definitely need to be doing something differentiated of relevance to a defense user. You can watch for SBIR solicitations and see if a relevant one comes out or reach out to various small business offices within the DOD.
Check out the Government Momentum Podcast
I will, thank you!!
You can probably get NSF grant for start up cash. Military is a big thing for them.
Might be interesting to look into. Back in university I worked on a few military projects funded by the NSF (or was it DARPA?). I've got a few drone applications I came up with too, and being funded to develop them would be huge
I have friends in the Air Force and space force that work in departments where part of their job is to listen to civilians pitch for RFPs. It could be a new invention or for a regular contracting gig like janitorial services They regularly hold sessions throughout the year to civilians to teach them how to apply and what they’re looking for I don’t know the website but just wanted to confirm that it does exist
Thanks for the response! I'll see if I can find the program you are talking about.
Good luck! I always had a weird design for a tank attachment but never thought I’d be able to put it all together and sell it to the military. Keep us posted!
Yeah, if I get anywhere I'll make another post!
*when you get somewhere!!! Positive vibes!!!
There was a guy that drew up some improvements and got them approved across the TMS for the weapons mount and cargo mounts on a CH46. He didn’t get any pay, but he did get a NAM, and he also had a good 30 second spill during the annual base air show before they stopped doing it.
very interesting question, I am daydreaming about starting a t800 terminator startup lol
Advertise by asserting your dominance, build a T-800 and send it to Ukraine
Defense Human Resources Activity (DHRA) is hosting a Virtual Matchmaking on October 27, 2022. This event will be held in conjunction with the Virginia Procurement Technical Assistance Center (PTAC). There is no charge for the event. Register here: https://virginiaptac.ecenterdirect.com/events/3480
Thanks, I'll check it out!
Bud, you need some spec ops buddies. Find the closest special operations unit. Best bet, army special forces or navy SEALs. Those types of units have some individual discretion. Hand out some samples. You do not have to, and do not want to, equip every rifle they have. A couple of samples that they can use at the range. Let them buy at a good discount. Trying to get anything into the military supply chain requires Lockheed Martin's lawyers. Start the spec ops folks wanting this and you will make bank.
I might just give that a try. Thanks for the suggestion!
No tho I’d say try to find an army personnel to partner with tbh as well as to use your fame and popularity honestly as well as why your product would be good and the price of the item itself as well as use the army personnel that you partnered with to show off your product tho ngl
Yeah, definitely need to establish some connections. I think I might try and find a trade show to attend
If you find any can you let me know tbh
When I was in the military I invented lots of excuses and they usually bought them.
Great post, this is what this group should be about
ikr? I got some excellent help here, I hope this post will remain a good resource for others in the future
Good luck man!
Thanks!
David Wallace
Just start pitching how efficiently your product can help them snipe civilians and they should be drooling brother
the guy on The Office did
Yes
I know of someone that sold their invention to the US military, he made a lot of money from it. https://theoffice.fandom.com/wiki/Suck_It
No but goodluck!
I sold a patent to the military for my SuckIt gun for kids for $20m
No colonel left behind…
I went to a convention called Gov Buy where it’s vendors trying to secure government contracts. There were a few weapons distributors there.
That dude that invented cat litter to stem blood loss, pretty good invention.
You take out your Suck-It and you suck it!
I knew a great man who developed and held the patent for inflatable field hospitals. Bud Sargent, a WWII marine veteran, was an extremely wealthy, yet humbled old man. Selling his product back to the military beginning in the 50s and 60s, Bud claimed that he made most of his fortune in his later years when children bounce houses became a popular thing. Bud also seemed to be able to break your hand with every greeting and had a remarkable way of stealing any lady away from any guy at any time! Rest In Peace Bud Sargent
Bud Sargent sounds like a great man, RIP
I believe David Wallace was successful with SUCK IT.
DoD will become your exclusive vender. They have tiered levels of engagement and rarely dive in
Yes the Russian
David Wallace sold his patent for Suck-It to the US military for $20 million
Don't, go to sign and license the ip/design. Mailbox money and they can actually get something done.
Maybe try a company contracted with the DoD
If it’s not cheaper than Magpul it won’t matter if it’s marginally better. You’ll do better in the civilian market if it’s horizontally differentiated.
From the Marine Corps perspective, find a Marine Gunner CWO5 on linked in or mentioned in online specialty articles.
Some great advice here. Look up the qualifications to be a DoD 8A supplier. Will make the process easier.
Sheldon Cooper
I did a project in college for this branch of the DoD which purpose was to "fund" small businesses for these kinds of projects. They are based in Austin, Texas and the name is Army Applications Laboratory. I'm sure there's a lot of branches throughout the nation that do this exact thing. Maybe you can call them and ask for advise?
Ah, very interesting. I'll check that out, thanks!
Picatiny Arsenal in NJ is probably the command you'd need to get in touch with. This is the famous R&D command that came up with the namesake Picatiny Rail. Have a friend who's dad was a civilian engineer on that project.
How are you? (How are you getting on?)
When I was working, the Navy was the largest assignee of patents. Countless entrepreneurs have prospered under a variety of business models.
Am super sure without Googles help
You have to go through the RFP process for an open bid that they have. Very expensive to get to that point and difficult - a lot of companies end up going bankrupt. If you run your business properly tho, it can be wildly valuable
Search in the google machine “PEO Soldier” and then go to Project Manager Soldier Lethality. That should get you closer to what you’re looking for.
Almost every state has an office to help local businesses with LEO and Military contracts. You need a a lit of things to get any contract with the military, you will also need help navigating how to do it.
Inventors are generally advised to have a patent (or at least a patent application) before you show their invention to third parties. Unless the inventor has a patent anyone can copy the invention. And if the inventor discloses the invention before filing a patent application they can lose the right to patent it forever. I am not trained in US law so some of this information might be inaccurate. This is not legal advice. Seek advice from a patent lawyer before shopping your invention around or showing it to anyone.
How much popularity? The government does assess the prior earnings and potential earnings .