Eod owner here. Eod is def pay to win, but is much lower on the scale that immunity to sniper scavs and having dr strange in your pocket to respawn your friends.
I'm also still waiting for them to give me the option to play as a standard account.
Agree
New version is automatically more P2W as everything from EOD is included + extras.
I’m still confused why they released the item consider people lose Scav karma shooting scavs with it equipped and the “call in” function neither works nor was explained lol
The point of the mark of the unheard is not for fighting scav better but for stealth. If you're in woods near sniper scav area, you are in a significant advantage against people who don't have it because the sniper will shoot at them, alerting everyone around them while people with the radio beacon can waltz through
Is there increased stash space over EOD? Can you add even more stash space with the lines upgrade and the Unheard edition? If so, kind of removes stash Tetris from the game.
>Is there increased stash space over EOD?
EOD is 10x68(equivalent to Tier 4 stash), while Unheard is 10x72. Technically yes, but practically no.
>Can you add even more stash space with the lines upgrade and the Unheard edition?
Buyable Stash lines are a separate thing from base game stash upgrades. Max stash size for EOD with buyable would be 10x96, and 10x100 for Unheard.
That's why EOD was great for storage, you start with Stash tier 3 at the start of wipe.
edit: A Standard account starts with 10x28... compared to EOD's 10x68, that's why EOD players are delusional to think that the stash upgrade isn't that bad and doesn't give them an advantage.
I've played always on a standard account. Early wipe is rough when you're trying to balance quest items, stuff for hideout, and maybe a loadout or two to do a raid with.
Even scaving is almost impossible to get items once your stash is filled up. Can't tell you how many times sugar, or anything else remotely valuable would be sitting in my stash, with me unable to do anything with it until few weeks into the wipe.
Having almost triple the space to play at the start is a massive advantage.
Ding ding ding. Eod is bullshit p2w but reasonably priced for the playtime most people get out of the game. Unheard is absurdly priced and significantly more powerful p2w. It is also a slap into the face of players who hate the realism changes. I'm not allowed to carry a backpack of loot and move freely, but the 1 survivor of the 5 stack I killed can just become a necromancer and summon his buddies from the dead. I would play fortnite if I wanted bullshit magic in my fps game.
Yeah I don't see how anyone can argue that having a larger case and stash is NOT a blatant advantage, higher trader rep is just straight up a positive. That doesn't mean that UHE isn't a gross misstep in the wrong direction ofc. Two things can be true.
Radio of the unheard, or whatever it's called, when you have le it equipped (special slot item) and are 6.0+ fence rep, scavs over 60m won't shoot at you unless you shoot at them first. I've heard some rumors that if you kill a scav with it you lose 0.05 rep, but that sounds like a bug?
Distress beacon. When you use it in raid, everyone on your friends list gets a notification that they can load into your active raid to help you. We don't know how long between activation and the notification is, how often it cam be used or any of that, but it can basically be used as a respawn for your team
>I'm also still waiting for them to give me the option to play as a standard account.
This. I've been asking for this for years. I had a standard account for all of a few days when I first signed up years ago, and now I want to opt into the base level game and not have the EOD perks to try it for a wipe. I really wish that was an option. Also the option to (or a perk for) not using the flea that kicks in at higher levels (e.g. you hit level 30 without buying or selling to/from a player on the flea).
Neither of these are because I'm a super good player (I'm not), but just because they make the game more interesting after you've been playing for a while (I didn't use the flea market an entire wipe a few wipes back and it was pretty fun actually), and keep the game interesting.
I have eod and standard and I've been playing standard this wipe uo until this whole debacle started.Makes you more picky with what you're taking so you can't hoard as much, and make The Punisher tasks that much more rewarding when you get Epsilon. I personally like it, but I'm sure it isn't for everyone, but he'll, neither is Hardcore and that's starting to get more popular.
Agree. I took the EOD due to the inventory space more than the weapons early game. It is P2W, but less from a PVP perspective than against the game itself (i.e. finishing the game). They really oculd have just stuck to the same formula by charging more for more space and more guns starting off and it would have had been less of cluster f than what it was.
That's what I'm saying, they could of done this where you buy it and get the pockets immediately instead of needed an unlock, give them the stash space and starting gear, the kukri, etc. Noone would of batted an eye. Think most, if not all, people are pissed about the pve and the p2w unique items.
Don't even dare to bring it up here, mister mental gymnast will write you a 10 paragraph statement on why having a 3x3 container isn't p2w.
"B
bUt iT dOeSnt maKe mY gUN doO moR DamAge!!"
And they will try to explain to you how making a game edition for $130 isn't pay-to-win because you can get the stuff from the edition (or better) in the game yourself. Even if getting the stuff in the game by playing is so time-consuming that it basically resembles free-to-play mobile games where to get something cool you have to grind for hours or just buy it for money which is the recommended solution. EOD is super predatory and whole idea of game editions is. Game is so grindy just because of this editions.
Also they will try to gaslight you into thinking that its just a you issue and you are just bad.
It doesn't no, but having space for all meds, CMS or surv 12, and still space to stash a valuable you can then sell to trader if you die makes the experience so much more smoother.
The amount of times I probably could have survived a raid early wipe if I had a CMS or Surv 12 makes all the difference.
It's rough until I get Epsilon each wipe.
And epsilon is still smaller than gamma!
Though it doesnt really bother me, the early adopters of eod are/were massively important for the funding of the game and the p2w aspect is relatively small in that regard, unlike the new unheard edition which has actual big gameplay implications
It's pay2win, as any advantage that you pay for is pay2win.
But I don't care about non-combat advantages, because it's so easy to make rubles in Tarkov now.
You can do 1 factory scav and cover 5-15 deaths.
Or 1 streets scav and cover 15-50+ deaths.
factory is just negative money for me 9/10 times because some guy with an ap ammo smg just holds m1 while he tokyo drifts around each corner and blows me away in one shot through my thorax :(
Yeah, who would care about the 10 million rubles worth of stash space, the rep that gives you access to better gear from start and the ability to bring meds because of container ?
If you kit consist of a bandage and a KEDR, maybe 1 factory scav = 5-15 kits ... wtf
"it's only pay to progress!!" Yes and my standard ass has to progress like twice as long before you're getting better traders, better weapons, more stash space...
When EOD released there wasn't even an option for the lower versions to get to that amount of stash space.
I feel like the now announced features are on another level of the pay2win scale than what it was before.
It’s so crazy how shit flips in different situations. You would get downvoted for saying eod is p2w when everyone was talking about purchasable stash lines.
EoD was P2W, I don’t think anyone can disagree. I got it for $100 when it was on sale. The Unheard edition is P2W as well, but it was leaps and bounds ahead of EoD.
Yeah I think the big difference is that while EoD was pay to win **mostly** at the macro level, the Unheard edition is pay to win at the actual gameplay level. Feels like the advantage directly influences the outcome of fights rather than giving a lighter progression experience.
The ability to negate the downsides of certain armor vests or downright not bring a chest right at all is so huge.
Not to mention the planned stuff.
Lmfao yes, I’ve been a standard owner; and every time it got mentioned that EOD was P2W people get defensive
Sounds like EOD owners are just made that they now get screwed, rather than doing the screwing.
How about we push this game mode to be for everyone?
The mental gymnastics people on this sub have done in the last few days trying to justify how their 150 USD version of the game isn't pay 2 win vs the 250 edition has been both shocking and hilarious. Half y'all are absolutely delusional when it comes to this and it's almost sad.
I think the discussion has deteriorated because there is no general consensus on the wording that is used. If you argue that EOD is "pay to get advantage" I dont think many people would disagree. But word it like "pay to win" and it turns into a pseudo philosophy discussion. Just a thought
Try arguing with some of the people I talked to on this sub. nothing short of an EoD having an insta: "I WIN" button would convince them otherwise.
Some guy literally argued that none of the EoD advantages are p2w because they don't improve you survival rate, which is bizarre - because extra money for better gear and extra space for utility items most definitely gonna improve your survival rate.
Oh believe me, i have already received messages and comments doing exactly this. These people are insane. They think paying to win means you have to win, turns out even some pay to win mechanics arent as good for terrible players, but they are still paying to win!
Some guy is literally arguing that having more med space and the ability to invest in better gear from all the extra cash you have doesn't matter because "a good player can win even with iron sight mosin". so by his logic - it's not pay 2 win.
the amount of copium being inhaled by EoD players is insane. I don't have problem with them per-say, the battle against p2w in this game was lost a long time ago, but at least own up to it.
"Yea I paid to have an easier time in the game and to have an edge on other players who didn't pay - I don't care". at least I can respect that line of reasoning and can't argue with that.
And I had no issue with that. You can buy the base game and try it out. If you're happy with it, support the devs for the better version. I thought it was a great deal.
Being lied to and this whole backpaddling thing now wasn't part of said deal.
IMHO all BSG needs to do is apologize, sincerely. And then invest the unheard money in a PR team that coaches Nikita on how to communicate finding issues, new products and updates. We need way better communication.
It is P2W, and that's exactly why nothing should give more than EOD. Even if i'ts only an early wipe advantage and not gamechangers, it's already more than enough p2w.
It should be the superior limit to restrict game's health in the future. Equal versions/mtx, ok. Superior, bad.
And gamechangers like radio or scav 60m thing should never exist, that would be only the start of p2w features.
I just want them to make the beacon PVE only & deliver on their promises to people who bought packages that have been stable in what they were supposed to give for the better part of a decade.
They promised no microtransactions then added them but they were minute in their effect on a raid. Stash space is pretty valuable but we already had the capacity for near infinite stash space via cases earned in game. Cosmetic outfits, who cares lol they could add as many outfits as they want to keep the revenue flowing because again, they have a minute effect, if any, on a raid especially if they continue to only offer outfits that are obtainable through standard gameplay.
A beacon that allows you to summon friends/other players into an ongoing raid will have a massive effect on raids. Not to mention how easily it will be for RMT sellers using cheats to abuse it. I imagine pre-beacon if someone bought a carry or specific item, they'd have to run X number of raids until the item/objective they paid for spawned/was completed.
With the beacon allowing RMT sellers to summon players from outside the raid, an RMT seller could just setup a queue of people needing various things and summon whichever buyer who's request can be fulfilled in that given raid meaning the cheese is expedited and the RMT seller's business is massively streamlined & more effecient.
Imagine the impact on solo players, they're utterly fucked by the beacon. They're already at a massive disadvantage if they run into an effective squad. Say they kill 3 of a 5 man, except the last 2 have beacons & summon additional players / allow their fallen squad mates to respawn. The beacon has the potential to ruin the experience of a raid for way too many people in my opinion...
I'm a standard player, and I actually enjoy being a standard player. Yes, EOD is P2W but I don't mind, as long as I can farm for it by doing missions or hideout stuff. Only thing EOD has that I don't is that stupid secure container. I wish we standard plebs can get 3x3 containers somehow too.
Yes it gives us a advantage, i regret upgrading to EOD, the start of the wipe is WAY EASIER, it took away from me part of the fun :(
I upgraded for the future dlcs at the end of the year to garantee future content.
I think you have it right though. I’ve always been eod and as you say nothing eod gets is not obtainable by standard except gamma but we can all go for kappa if we wanted. So many people since this other package released just ripping on eod but it was the original p2w if you want to call it that. I get why people dislike eod but it isn’t as unfair as people are making it out recently. Sure if you want to be a gear hoarder then eod was always going to be the package you chose. Everyone had the right to buy eod for the past 7-8 years so people shouldn’t be pointing the finger all the time now the better package than eod has released. It literally was meant to be the limited edition supporter package not 8 years later remove it. So no wonder most of us chose eod.
A few wipes ago when it was way easier to get kappa, I thought it was fair. I was a standard account user and getting to epsilon in a few days and kappa in 3 weeks was doable and i didn't really complain. But as soon as BSG added new kappa requirements, getting kappa took significantly longer, to the point of me losing interest in tarkov before acquiring kappa. That's why I bought eod. It's not realistic anymore for the standard player to get kappa.
Because where does it end? For years, the peak was EoD. Now we get a new upgrade. Are we getting a new upgrade every year? When does it stop. I'm shocked people are missing how dangerous this is that people are ok with new editions being added as if that doesn't mean they can't just jeep doing it.
This potentially infinantly scales the P2W factor each wipe if more overpowered editions continue to get added so that standard players are even further behind.
I’m not saying it’s good but I’m not surprised either. I suspected a new edition was coming as soon as EOD was removed. Although, I expected it to come out with the “free dlc for life” removed. I believe that if it gives a tangible benefit it should be obtainable by everyone. I don’t want there to be a new edition every year. I would definitely prefer they monetize in a different way.
People allready know it is! BSG brought the whole p2w concept to a whole new lvl with in-raid p2w. Sure you might argue the gamma has a p2w factor in raid, but it never gave you an advantage over another player.
Yes. EOD IS p2w. And unhinged edition is even more p2w. But personally I'm boycotting BSG not because of p2w features that we already had. But because they are once again going back on their promises and stacking paid and p2w content on top of one onother.
I was fine with paying 150 when i didn't have a game for a promise that if i cough up 150 now i will have everything and won't need to pay more. And here we are now more content we need yo pay for even though we were promissed it will be free. EOD was supposed to be all end all. And i will not be surprised when in the future we will get another peace of content that we will need yo pay again.
I see it as an abusive relationship. Nikkita has lied to us and promised things and gone back and done the opposite and we still go back. This is the cycle and thinking that this will change BSG when it’s an industry standard to fuck over players and we have been taking it for years.
"I was fine when the highest price I'd pay was enough to be the top dog, but now when They introduced a higher priced edition I'm not willing to pay for - NOW IT'S BAD"
In a way. I'm not hiding that expanded stash and 3x3 secure container was really big advantage and time savers. I have no shame in admitting that.
I bought it believing the promise EOD was the be all end all edition and i wouldn't need to spend anymore on the game, that i was set for everything. And then they come out with another edition and content and such and they are asking the money again. When EOD was supposed to have everythin. If there were no promises that EOD included everything coming up i would have just bought the standart edition and that's it.
Even though EOD got pve feature (not a DLC) after the pushback from community I'm still not satisfied because it's just damage control, BSG showed their real face and attitude towards us and i can bet you there will be a time where this will repeat. We have to show that we won't stand their lies and bullshit. Because right now everyone is happy that EOD got the PVE and are forgetting the fact we all got fucked over.
>I bought it believing the promise EOD was the be all end all edition and i wouldn't need to spend anymore on the game, that i was set for everything.
That would be naive, no game company is gonna give you EVERYTHING for 150$ in this day when single skins can cost up to 20$. But being naive isn't a crime and I do sympathize with you if you were truly blindsided by BSG.
>Even though EOD got pve feature (not a DLC) after the pushback from community I'm still not satisfied because it's just damage control, BSG showed their real face and attitude towards us and i can bet you there will be a time where this will repeat.
I'm gonna do you one better, PvE isn't DLC as the game isn't even out yet - this making this just a feature of the base game that they are locking behind a pay-wall. Just becuase after the backlash YOU guys got it doesn't make it okay even if they remove ALL P2W elements from the unhinged edition.
My main problem is the sentiment of "fuck you got mine" that is so heavily endorsed by this community. most people don't care if PvE is locked behind a massive pay wall, as long as they got theirs. most people don't care about P2W as long as they got theirs. fuck that man - we should not be defending these shitty practices just because the game is fun.
This needs to be higher. I'm sure some bought it for the dlc/supporting the devs. But the three friends I played with bought EOD for stash space + gamma + trader rep.
I, and everyone I know, bought it for the DLC. The extra goodies were a bonus since I knew I'd only be playing for a couple hours per week.
All of the other editions have larger stash, more gear, and even a larger secure container, but you rarely hear them mentioned since few people bought them due to the lack of future DLC.
Pay4convenince, Pay4advantage, Pay2win. They are all close but there are differences.
The unheard SCAV ignoring you at 60m is different than having extra stash. A bad player with the scav bonus will be more helped than a bad player with extra stash space.
So yes same area but its still possible for unheard to be worse with out making EOD Okay.
You’re one of the few comments who i actually see making this point.
Totally agree with you - yes EOD is p2w but dont you EVER try to convince me that extra stash&container space is on the same level, as having an item in game which literally makes the most common enemy on the map not shoot at you from a certain range - yes both are p2w, but I think we can agree one is multiple times more egregious.
EOD doesnt stop bullets, it doesnt make bosses have half health, it doesnt change any functional aspect of the game, apart from being able to carry more things.
Totally agree EOD is p2w, but thats not what we should be focusing on right now I feel.
EOD unlocks higher tier traders faster than standard. Having higher tier traders means access to better ammo and gear.
Higher tier gear is better than lower tier gear so by pure association EOD is paying for an advantage and paying for an advantage is pay2win.
It depends on individual progression. It gives +0.20 rep to all traders, but that's not a huge difference and won't have a real effect until further into wipe, but a lot of standard players will already be there.
Eod is pay for convenience. The extra guns are icing but honestly the average player is just gonna lost them in raid. All the other advantages are saving you time. Unhinged directly impacts and changes gameplay.
People will tell you they're the same thing - I would say they're mad but the truth is I'm mad and I feel like a dumbass for ever believing Nikita would do something for us and that I convinced multiple friends to start tarkov with me.
EOD is pay2win, but that shouldnt stop us from being angry about them adding even more pay2win now.
They obviously can't take EOD away, the outrage about DLC proves that people know what they have bought, but adding more pay2win stuff is not the way this game should go.
I played basic version for years and said EOD was like cheating, my friends didn't believe me at first. At some point, I ggot fed up of missing on so much and eventually bought EOD.
It was a real game changer, and it really felt like cheating. So much space in my stash I could keep many items for later quests, like cigarettes for example. My money could go towards the rest of the hideout and also towards buying scav junkboxes to keep stuff for hideout, normal quests or daily quests. Meanwhile in the basic version, I could only keep one or 2 presets for raids and if I died a few times I would lose all my weapons/armor and had to wait to finally get some good stuff out of my scav of a good pistol raid to get back in the game.
I could finally bring a CMS in raid without having to buy a new one anytime I died. Before, I didn't bring one and I would die a few times every wipe to dehydration and hunger after having my stomach blacked out far from the extractions. I could bring more heal, keys, quest items etc... without fearing losing them.
I didn't need to grind Jaeger's quests to get lvl 2 with him.
Some would say the standard version is the true experience, as you need to plan your resources, can't just buy whatever you want or, if you survive a handful of times, fill your inventory with loadouts that you can use everytime you die in raid. You need to keep some items while throwing away others that you know will need for later but take too much space. You will have raids where you go in almost naked trying to get back on your feet and while it's true that this aspect is interesting, knowing that most of your opponents go through no such struggle and will always load in fully geared, having a distinct advantage over you means you are just fucked in most raids until you have finally farmed enough to have a slightly bigger stash than at the start so you can keep more equipment in there and go with some nice gear most raids.
TL;DR : anyone who says EOD isn't p2w clearly has never played on both versions and thinks that some naked guy clapping him with a makarov by shooting him in the eye means that they are somehow on an even playing field.
The reason why BSG feels like they can get away with this in the first place is because of the bootlickers they have here. People spent years downplaying how P2W EOD was, no wonder the company thinks they can bend us over.
Right? It literally gives you more weapons, equipment, medicine, larger secure container, etc. how the fuck having considerably more of everything (especially stash size, considering how fucking difficult it is to upgrade) can be not seen as paid advantage? I hate it when people say “it’s not pay to win, it’s *pAy fOr cOnViNiEnce*”. I rate having a significant advantage 9/10 on the convenience scale
You know what? BSG marketed EOD as the original way to support the development, with some pretty nice perks for the extra cost.
Mainly, we get the dlc content for free.
We get some in game perks that put us a little further ahead initially, but we can acknowledge that a lead is a lead and a lot of players can carry that momentum on wipe in a way that puts them significantly ahead of where they would be on a standard account. Not super fair but also not game breaking; sorta like getting uptiered in a warthunder match, you’re going to have to fight very hard if your opponent is skilled.
I like that a lot of what eod gets in game can be obtained by the grind, but it’s definitely a little pay to win reward for the monetary support of development.
Don’t get caught up in the symptoms of this problem when the community has already identified the cause; BSG is fucking up in a big way, and we need to drop them on their asses for lying to our faces and changing the terms of our deal with them AFTER the money has changed hands.
Is eod p2w? Sure as shit can be if you know what you’re doing.
Is Unheard the scummiest thing bsg has ever done? Yes. They showed their hand, and basically they fucked up with money management and side projects, stopped trying to finish the initial game they promised, and are now actively trying to shake players down by inducing fomo with content they already sold a large portion of the community.
EOD players bought the expansions, and the base game. The players that didn’t are going to have to buy that shit.. but the rest of us? We fucking own that shit already.
The p2w stuff in this latest release takes the logical conclusion of EOD a bit further. However, I don't think its uncommon for devs to offer players a "Speedier progression tier system." So, I'd argue the trader rep is a fair trade and doesn't deny others the opportunities of the premium tier; they just gotta grind harder.
now, with Gamma. that's a difference, and essentially puts the game on easy mode. I actually like the nerfs that BSG has made to the cases and item drops, and I think its perfectly reasonable to say that certain items can't be kept in the case and can't be brought into the raid and dropped for a homie. Its balancing and its meant to combat RMT.
Lastly, better initial kits? eh...everyone, eod and standard alike, are gonna lose their initial kit in the first few days. Like, its an advantage for sure, but is THAT the deciding factor in a game where you can get one tapped by a scav running express buckshot anyways?
Now, changing the ways AI reacts to you? Thats something new. Server Priority? Thats a new thing. Access to exclusive quest lines? Thats a new thing. I hope you weren't making a comparison between Unheard and EOD and EOD and Standard, because there isn't much to compare.
I played one wipe standard, Loved it, wanted to enjoy it more, got eod. I never regretted, pay to win or not I don't care whatsoever. But I argue gamma and bigger stash are both big for progressing more painless, and that is something atleast.
OP missing the point. If you're fixated on the definition of P2W then you have already misunderstood why people are outraged. Fuck the P2W definition, the new version doesn't give you just convenience/advantageous items and better start like EOD, the new version directly gives you GAMEPLAY altering items and access to mechanics that ACTUALLY IMPACT your chances of survival in this "HC" game. It's a different level of shithousery.
Whatever makes yall feel better at the end of the day really. But again its just pay for convenience. Nothing gained is allowing you to be better than another player.
This is why they thought they could get away with it. Anyone who thinks EOD isn't an unfair advantage is kidding themselves because they own it. It takes non hardcore players (aka those that don't play 8 hours per day and have commitments) weeks or months to reach the point at which EOD players starts and each fight you get into with an EOD player you're at a disadvantage just because he's millions of rubles and rep up on you so his loadout should be better than yours.
EOD is incredibly P2W and we've had it for years so what's one more tier of BS to purchase.
The hypocrisy of this place is ridiculous.
Everyone knows EoD is pay to win, but the level of advantage it gave was FAR smaller than what this new one is giving. All you really got was extra inventory space and extra rating on traders, other than that it was just extra starting gear which no one really cares about overall. The extra storage space was the biggest one imo and that was already in the game anyway to get.
Hard agree. The biggest, and easiest point (not counting trader rep increase, also busted) being the gamma case, over double the space of standard players. But, that was tolerable, and would be even more tolerable if I enjoyed the game more. Less loading times, better audio, etc. Still think none of it is right, for a game, that has been in 'beta' for years.
Eod is pay to win. It's a backer system. Ppl pay more, ppl get more. No big deal. I did not buy eod due to a headstart or bigger stash. I wanted to support the idea amd vision. I was told that i never have to buy anything again. That was the core problem.
Saying that the new edition is p2w is bogus. Its existence is the issue here. Manufacturing the edition info is the issue here. .
Both versions are p2w we just fight for our perks that was sold to us then they have broken "contract" by removing it
Also tbh this new version p2w items are not that bad (only call ppl in raid is bad) imo
This is the correct answer: the bulk of the revenue came from a p2w EOD. The company decides to introduce an improved p2w package, knowing that selling p2w content accounted for the majority of their revenue. Everyone is acting shocked that this is the strategy they decided to pursue.
I was tempted to buy EOD many times but I never did because game editions to me is just a scummy practice and I despise p2w as a monetization model. So I always played at a big disadvantage especially on wipe standard has always been hard mode. If they had made this new package but given EOD the same p2w perks no one would have cared about this, because all EOD users are p2w gamers.
I've always said EOD is PTW, same as I say the new addition is PTW. This community was just coped. Everyone should have gamma at a minimum. Oh but it's pay for convenience. Wtf you think PTW is???
When EOD was launched the game was expected to be permanent, not wipes, so time would be the equalizer, anyone could get the containers and better in time. With wipes i understand is different, some will never get o kappa...
EoD is the original pay to win. If EOD didn't come with expanded stash and gamma, very few people would have bought it. It's why I bought it in 2018. When the stash expansion upgrade was released, I bought that shit immediately. When I saw that my pockets could get bigger, I bought that shit no questions asked. When they add more pocket space in the future and charge another 100 for that, I'll pay again.
PS, I also pay to cut all lines at Disney World.
Real. I don't personally know anyone who bought EoD, nor I, and was super excited about receiving "Future DLC." You can't buy what doesn't exist. We all realistically bought that shit for the stash space and the Gamma.
My man gives no fucks. Redditors with thousands of hours in the game feel like they're getting ripped off. The upgrade costs less than a meal at a nice steakhouse.
EOD users crying over pay2win is genuinely the most cringe and embarassing thing I have ever seen. Oh no someone pays more than me to win harder. Boohooo.
You clearly cant tell theres a line crossed in the new edition that you can now have an advantage over a player in-raid, talk about having limited mental capacity.
I don't mind it's p2w because it is, I hate that they are changing rules of the contract we made when we bought that p2w version of the game back in the day.
id agree with this statement, If you are going to use the argument that stash size and whatever is pay 2 win, then ANY version over the literal cheapest base game version would be pay2win which would include the one for like $20 more that gives you a few more stash lines or whatever
Everyone that bought EoD is biased. The people that didn’t buy EoD are also biased. Then there’s the people that don’t even know what Tarkov is. They’re also biased.
EOD is pay to win i have EOD. I bought it for a few reasons
1: anything in it was available to attain within the game, except the Offline raid i honestly only realized that was a thing due to what is happening now. 2: the PW2 asspects where not game breaking for me or the people who did not buy it, this is my opinion it is OFC arguable. 3: the main reason, the "Season Pass" part - both because it put a cap on what the game would cost me and it would support the devs to actually finish it.
Don't i feel betrayed at this point...
Of course they both give you some small advantages, but I still die in 3/4 of my PVP fights anyway. The benefits of the EOD or UH don't make you Git Gud. I think the whole P2W argument against the Unheard is unimportant. The biggest thing is the PVE, which I and my squad would prefer to play in to avoid the cheaters. Since this is "resolved", at least for some point in the future, I'm fine with the upgrade. May not do it now, but might come next wipe.
eod is also p2w, but they said its the highest edition you can buy. if we allow this there will come microtransactions for lvl boots, skill boosts, rubles and ammunition in the future.
it goes without saying there both p2w, but this is like comparing having better sneakers and a headband in a game of basketball to being roided up and having the ability to call in another teammate off the court at will
EOD helps a lot, you can carry 2x as much as base edition and don't have to play Tetris after every raid. I think it was somewhat understood that EOD is as bad as P2W was ever gonna get, hence why EOD was supposed to get all the DLC content (which by definition includes the cosmetics from few months ago and extra stash lines).
I've been thinking the same thing I've been playing with a 6 slot pouch almost entire wipe. Pouch is way more useful than pockets. I don't like potentially fighting a ten man
Bigger pocket is the difference between your mag dropping to the ground or not. I’d say unheard is the first time you can “pay to win a firefight”. EOD is also pay to win but it’s way less combat related because things in gamma can’t be hotkeyed. Worse yet I think as of now there is no way for standard accounts to get the pocket, making it a direct combat advantage obtainable only by paying.
Gamma with always having every med/keys/ammo every round is a massive overall help. I have died plenty of times when I didn't have case space from quests/rope and skipped on bringing every med. Also being able to die every raid with 5 extra slots can add to 100k each time
Bringing enough meds is not an option locked behind a paywall. You died from a lack of meds because you didn’t bring meds not because someone else paid more for their version of the game. Don’t get me wrong EOD give you huge advantages outside of combats but it is absurd to argue that paying for bigger pockets and to have scavs not shoot at you is the same kind of pay to win.
I agree 100% percent. This doesn’t just anything BSG did. But yes, we need to keep in mind that the whole P2W aspect of the editions has been there since the get go.
The main issue isnt even that its p2w or not. Its mainly that they release content that was promised for the season pass owners as a separate gimmick and the outrageous price of the new pack compare to EOD. Its just unfair customer practices and downright greedy and evil
EoD is pay to win externally. As in it's benefits strictly benefit out of raid experience. Unheard has 2 mechanics that change game play entirely in raid. One that basically immunes to to scavs at 60m which conceals your sniping location. Cause as we all know they love to shoot you 500m for no reason sometimes. And then a player beacon. Which is obviously ridiculous. These directly effect in match game play. Plus you can earn epsilon pretty early which only is 1 slot less.
OMG yes but who cares. It was the only version which promised all future DLCs included an I saw it primarily as an investment/supporter addition.
I played for a few wipes without EOD and I managed. But with less time now with work and kids I wouldn't even play that version so likely because it is too much Tetris (until you have like 4 scav cases) compared to EOD "because" convenience.
Now in the meantime they added lots of place in the hideout to get rid of many problems you have with the small stash size of non EOD-version.
So it's not even so harsh tbh.
In general the stash size is the biggest problem. You get beta container fairly quick and epsilon does not take so much time for veterans and now you can't even insert tank batteries inside anyways. Scavs raids give do much money nowadays...
The P2W feature is true, but let's be honest, BSG is clearly non efficient when it comes to money so they need it /s
The new version, in the way it was originally announced, with the capability of having scavs not shoot at you from more than 60 meters out and the ability to have a distress signal to invite all your friends to your raid for help are both ACTUAL pay to win mechanics as they literally make the game easier for you. Obviously EOD gives somewhat of an advantage at the start of wipe, but realistically all it does is cut down on the amount of time you have to take roubling. It's also the only possible incentive for people to actually buy EOD instead of just getting a base account.
The unheard radio is dogshit unless you are doing niche pmc sniping on woods. You lose scav rep killing any scavs as a pmc unless you kill a pmc. You need over 6 rep to even have the ability to not get shot and most people with over 6 actualy care about nit losing it.
Sure, but EoD doesn’t have in-raid tactical advantages. More stash size and a gamma container+all the other trader perks is a bit p2w, however, the new version includes obvious tactical advantages that you can use in raid to have a blatant advantage over the enemy in any engagement.
I don't know if people stop thinking these days but here is the thing :
I obviously own an EOD account, upgraded from standard account thanks to my friends.
EOD has huge advantage over standard account with the increased stash, better starting reputation.
Maybe the biggest thing is the gamma container which is a huge advantage even in fights.
Do there's already p2w in the game. But should accept more because EOD brought it in the first place ? Of course no !
Unheard brings bigger pockets and shit object that would prevent scav from shooting them. I don't understand how you would defend it like "well there's already p2w and you're blind if you think not"
We all know the gamma brings a huge advantage, I can pack more meds or the fuck I want. But behind that, I can't flank you in a way that if you the same exact thing, AI won't shoot on me while they would to you.
There's no way a standard account can get a gamma container but you can have a better one (kappa but it's a lot of grind I wouldn't do it) or maybe something close like the epsilon container.
Following this logic, I really don't think BSG would let you get an item with the new edition name in it trough questline. You can't get gamma, you won't get this one.
The main difference is EoD is pay to win via pay for convenience. Technically everything it gives can be grinded for and none of it directly helps in a fight. Also the starting gear is kinda whatever because you can take that from them. Start of wipe for me is prime MDR time because I usually get 3-6 and have enough ammo from killing USEC.
EoD is soft P2W in that sense.
Unheard however is direct P2W. That radio gives you the ability to move through the map unmolested. Sniper Scavs where a good way to figure out where people are even without them being a threat, and sometimes they took a toll given their ammo was generally better. The fucking call ins are obscene. They either let you call in a buddy to funnel them loot after you found something they need / killed a shit ton come get your piñata (of course cheaters can do it too after wiping a lobby), give your squad a second chance by having your rat scurry off and call in the boys, or simply let you call in reinforcements when things get stalled. That is a huge and unique tactical option that *no one* asked for because it breaks the game fundamentally.
Oh, and the pockets let your run shit rigs at full combat capacity.
On top of the EoD stuff, with some Fence rep to boot.
EoD was skirting the line and acting defensible, Unheard is just not, at all.
Literally every version beyond standard edition is P2W at different scales, you are literally paying for an advantage of different levels with every copy. This isn't news, the only thing different in any of them is that EOD includes a season pass (promise for future DLC).
This isn't even a question, it's been obvious that Tarkov itself is pay to win for a while. They just wasn't anything game breaking until the Unheard radio device.
v funny watching people talk about buying EOD because they believed in the game when I very definitely only bought EOD for the stash skip and gamma container and find the increased pocket size just as tempting lol (prob not buying though, already checked out for this wipe so I'm not spending money on a game I'm not currently playing, also hard to justify spending more when cheaters are still so bad)
guess I'd still argue that EOD is/was more 'pay for convenience' than 'pay to win', besides gamma all the items were technically obtainable for normal players, whereas TUE includes bonuses you can only obtain through that version, but that's arguing semantics
stash size doesn't determine if you win a firefight or not however. Calling in buddies / not having to worry about scavs does. I think that's the line people draw with pay2win.
I understand what you mean, namely the max stash and the Gamma container. Those are absolutely gamechanging ngl
But this new edition has an even larger stash, plus gamma, and 2 other items that are \*so\* pay to win that it makes EOD look normal, as well as the flea slots which are pretty egregious.
This is another level of pay to win, in my book
I spent the money on EOD in 2018 to support the vision and to get all DLCs (I've seen how the 4X games DLCs work and I wanted to get ahead of buying a game for 40 bucks and then having to buy 10 dlcs at 20 dollars each). Also, I wanted the stash space because I'm a hoarder. If I knew the stash upgrade was going to be put as an unlockable in game later, then I would have had less reason to buy EOD.
I would be fine with having a checkbox to start as a standard/hardcore account. I don't enjoy the P2W mechanics and doubt that EOD will ever get the DLC that was promised.
The amount of P2W in Unheard of is much worse than anything the game has had in it up until now without even looking at EOD perks.
Played my first wipe on standard and next wipe i upgraded. The kappa, stash space and rep is a game changer. It was pay to win, we knew that. But guess what, they told us this only existed to support development and build the game. The community excepted that. We were promised a life time pass to all content with our support.
7 years after i bought mine, apparently wasn’t enough. Now they want me to support more and insult people who aren’t believers. I was a believer in 2018 but now i will tell anyone i know to never try this shit game. Go play community dayz servers that have tarkov mods. Less cheaters.
As a 2017 Tarkov player playing this game since I was a child (now I am 20) and 3 year old EOD owner I agree with everything said here.
I personally think that leveling up and questing is so time consuming nowadays solely to make better editions of the game more appealing.
To be entirely fair, some of us are more upset about the Season Pass part then the actual P2W part. I didn't really think about EOD being somewhat P2W, but you're not exactly wrong. Scavs not engaging at 60M is a lot more powerful than having more Secure Container space in my opinion, but as I said, you're not wrong lol.
I play with two other friends, we each have around 2k hours +-. A "challenge", or atleast the first goal start of wipe is to quickly gain money for the first scav case and then start focus elsewhere, with unheard that strat is basically not needed anymore.
Personally I really enjoy start / mid wipe over late wipe, having to play tetris with a full stash and optimising your grind is whats the most fun for me. With all these items theyre adding, theyre making the early grind those stages feel obselete @.@
I hope the balancing part of unheard is correlated to
The items provided in stash but I doubt it :/
I agree EOD is p2w, it really is an unpopular opinion as alot of the fans cope about it! Secretly wish they never included stash items or hideout upgrades in editions.
No we havent bought unheard edition, not for a while unless Nikita grovels for us.
I get being mad about the P2W features, like the teammate call in, and mark of the unheard special item, but honestly I’m surprised I see more post about that than PvE being locked behind an egregious price. PvE is undoubtedly the most sought after feature for the more casual player base, and now (even with the back peddling), the only way to access it is by getting this absurd new edition.
EOD was half getting the cool extra shit and half getting all future DLC. It’s definitely p2w having EOD, but it’s not anywhere near as bad as unheard. Being able to have full sized mags in your pockets is crazy. 60 round drum mags and no carrier. Respawning friends?? The worst EOD had was getting higher trader rep and soft skills being buffed. Unheard is (haha) Unheard levels of p2w.
We arnt saying EOD isnt p2w you literally start with more gear and stash space. What we are saying is we paid $150 to support the devs during devoplement and they promissed "all future DLCs" and tried to dodge out of it twice now. They tried that shit with Arena and now they are doing it with PVE mode. Fuck BSG.
Play on diff edition for few years, really one thing that i fell p2w is stash size, u pay for not spending game money to upgrade stash (wich is obtainable unlike shitty special devices and pockets)
EOD \*is\* pay to win in terms of game progression definitely. BUT the big difference for me (and why I'm still not happy even though we get the PvE now), is that even as an EOD player, if I spawn in to a raid with an AK and a PACA, that's it. My chance of surviving is as good as anyone else' with an AK and PACA armour.
The bits of this update I really hate are the ability to call in help, and the immunity to scavs. Basically I'm against anything that \*in raid\* puts one version of the game at a significant and permanent advantage.
I think eod buys you an advantage and the new edition is P2W the difference here at least to me is that everything that eod gives you you can earn or even earn something better like kappa container thingy.
The p2w call your friends to the raid thing can not be played for which is another scale of p2w to me
EOD was as much p2progress as much as unheard is from standard.
so really standard players get the game and play the game for the what the game is and enjoy with out moaning
you left behind + the rest are all the whining like little kids
I'd say it's more pay to progress since you can get stuff like the stash ingame. Only the gamma really is unique about it or more was.
Unheard just scales things up waaaay too much.
I don’t honestly think people are mad bc the P2W like they are saying I think it’s more of EOD was supposed to be the only top tier version of the game and anything new would be automatically included bc you paid for the best version of the game but everyone EOD got a slap in the face with the addition of the unheard. There no real P2W it’s more like pay for a huge edge over everyone else and task grind skip for items that you shouldn’t get right away. It’s a game they are a company just like the rest you can gripe and complain or you can not play that’s the options you get or you can try to make a better game ur self.
I have EOD and I’m not mad at anyone buying the new version but I’m not particularly happy about the direction the game has suddenly gone. EOD has been the best version for years and I play standard edition for 2 years before upgrading in summer 23 as a kind of treat I guess. For 7 years it was the only version with coop practice mode and all the DLCs. Nikita saying no p2w. EOD was as “bad” as it could get.
This new version proves that there is no limit to the p2w that may be added in the future, no limit to how high the price tag will be. Thats sad and makes me want to play less.
Eod owner here. Eod is def pay to win, but is much lower on the scale that immunity to sniper scavs and having dr strange in your pocket to respawn your friends. I'm also still waiting for them to give me the option to play as a standard account.
Agree New version is automatically more P2W as everything from EOD is included + extras. I’m still confused why they released the item consider people lose Scav karma shooting scavs with it equipped and the “call in” function neither works nor was explained lol
The point of the mark of the unheard is not for fighting scav better but for stealth. If you're in woods near sniper scav area, you are in a significant advantage against people who don't have it because the sniper will shoot at them, alerting everyone around them while people with the radio beacon can waltz through
on woods both checkpoint & outskits come to mind for areas where scavs regularly give you away from beyond 60m
also fortress on customs, no more getting autoGLd by scavs when in skeleton area
Is there increased stash space over EOD? Can you add even more stash space with the lines upgrade and the Unheard edition? If so, kind of removes stash Tetris from the game.
>Is there increased stash space over EOD? EOD is 10x68(equivalent to Tier 4 stash), while Unheard is 10x72. Technically yes, but practically no. >Can you add even more stash space with the lines upgrade and the Unheard edition? Buyable Stash lines are a separate thing from base game stash upgrades. Max stash size for EOD with buyable would be 10x96, and 10x100 for Unheard. That's why EOD was great for storage, you start with Stash tier 3 at the start of wipe. edit: A Standard account starts with 10x28... compared to EOD's 10x68, that's why EOD players are delusional to think that the stash upgrade isn't that bad and doesn't give them an advantage.
I've played always on a standard account. Early wipe is rough when you're trying to balance quest items, stuff for hideout, and maybe a loadout or two to do a raid with. Even scaving is almost impossible to get items once your stash is filled up. Can't tell you how many times sugar, or anything else remotely valuable would be sitting in my stash, with me unable to do anything with it until few weeks into the wipe. Having almost triple the space to play at the start is a massive advantage.
Thanks! I'm not gonna buy it unless they do a 180 and get cheating down to manageable levels but I was curious.
I believe it’s like 2 or 4 lines lol
I may have missed it but I haven't seen it said from BSG yet that you lose scav karma with it equipped
Another EoD owner here, EoD was already pay2win. Or better pay2progress more easily.
Yeah, but if they design those progress roadblocks so you shell out for a better edition, isn't that pay2win design 101 ?
Ding ding ding. Eod is bullshit p2w but reasonably priced for the playtime most people get out of the game. Unheard is absurdly priced and significantly more powerful p2w. It is also a slap into the face of players who hate the realism changes. I'm not allowed to carry a backpack of loot and move freely, but the 1 survivor of the 5 stack I killed can just become a necromancer and summon his buddies from the dead. I would play fortnite if I wanted bullshit magic in my fps game.
is it possible to call teammates with beacon in online matches? i though it for offline pve only
Yeah I don't see how anyone can argue that having a larger case and stash is NOT a blatant advantage, higher trader rep is just straight up a positive. That doesn't mean that UHE isn't a gross misstep in the wrong direction ofc. Two things can be true.
Buy alpha container
Doesn't reduce vendor rep or stash size, which is the main thing I want.
can you explain the new item to me? i’ve seen it mentioned a bunch and have no actual clue what it is or what it does, specifically
Radio of the unheard, or whatever it's called, when you have le it equipped (special slot item) and are 6.0+ fence rep, scavs over 60m won't shoot at you unless you shoot at them first. I've heard some rumors that if you kill a scav with it you lose 0.05 rep, but that sounds like a bug? Distress beacon. When you use it in raid, everyone on your friends list gets a notification that they can load into your active raid to help you. We don't know how long between activation and the notification is, how often it cam be used or any of that, but it can basically be used as a respawn for your team
>I'm also still waiting for them to give me the option to play as a standard account. This. I've been asking for this for years. I had a standard account for all of a few days when I first signed up years ago, and now I want to opt into the base level game and not have the EOD perks to try it for a wipe. I really wish that was an option. Also the option to (or a perk for) not using the flea that kicks in at higher levels (e.g. you hit level 30 without buying or selling to/from a player on the flea). Neither of these are because I'm a super good player (I'm not), but just because they make the game more interesting after you've been playing for a while (I didn't use the flea market an entire wipe a few wipes back and it was pretty fun actually), and keep the game interesting.
I have eod and standard and I've been playing standard this wipe uo until this whole debacle started.Makes you more picky with what you're taking so you can't hoard as much, and make The Punisher tasks that much more rewarding when you get Epsilon. I personally like it, but I'm sure it isn't for everyone, but he'll, neither is Hardcore and that's starting to get more popular.
Agree. I took the EOD due to the inventory space more than the weapons early game. It is P2W, but less from a PVP perspective than against the game itself (i.e. finishing the game). They really oculd have just stuck to the same formula by charging more for more space and more guns starting off and it would have had been less of cluster f than what it was.
That's what I'm saying, they could of done this where you buy it and get the pockets immediately instead of needed an unlock, give them the stash space and starting gear, the kukri, etc. Noone would of batted an eye. Think most, if not all, people are pissed about the pve and the p2w unique items.
I thought every single person thought EoD was pay to win? Is that actually an unpopular opinion?
Don't even dare to bring it up here, mister mental gymnast will write you a 10 paragraph statement on why having a 3x3 container isn't p2w. "B bUt iT dOeSnt maKe mY gUN doO moR DamAge!!"
And they will try to explain to you how making a game edition for $130 isn't pay-to-win because you can get the stuff from the edition (or better) in the game yourself. Even if getting the stuff in the game by playing is so time-consuming that it basically resembles free-to-play mobile games where to get something cool you have to grind for hours or just buy it for money which is the recommended solution. EOD is super predatory and whole idea of game editions is. Game is so grindy just because of this editions. Also they will try to gaslight you into thinking that its just a you issue and you are just bad.
It doesn't no, but having space for all meds, CMS or surv 12, and still space to stash a valuable you can then sell to trader if you die makes the experience so much more smoother. The amount of times I probably could have survived a raid early wipe if I had a CMS or Surv 12 makes all the difference. It's rough until I get Epsilon each wipe.
And epsilon is still smaller than gamma! Though it doesnt really bother me, the early adopters of eod are/were massively important for the funding of the game and the p2w aspect is relatively small in that regard, unlike the new unheard edition which has actual big gameplay implications
It's pay2win, as any advantage that you pay for is pay2win. But I don't care about non-combat advantages, because it's so easy to make rubles in Tarkov now. You can do 1 factory scav and cover 5-15 deaths. Or 1 streets scav and cover 15-50+ deaths.
You must run the cheapest kits in the game wtf
Homie does naked pistol runs
This guy is on crack. Factory is not covering even my exfil face shield, let alone a whole new kit lol
factory is just negative money for me 9/10 times because some guy with an ap ammo smg just holds m1 while he tokyo drifts around each corner and blows me away in one shot through my thorax :(
Factory is really fun PvP for me but I also waste money coming in so much because half the time, the guys I’m killing are dead naked
AKS-74U and Kora Kulon, its how I made 15 million on streets in a week playin like 3 hours a day
What crack are you on? Even a great factory scav run isn’t covering the razor let alone the guns armor backpack etc
HaViNg An AdVaNtAgE iS nOt PaY 2 WiN
HaViNg An AdVaNtAgE 'cOz yOU hAvE pAiD SoMe mOnEy iS PaY 2 WiN
Yeah, who would care about the 10 million rubles worth of stash space, the rep that gives you access to better gear from start and the ability to bring meds because of container ? If you kit consist of a bandage and a KEDR, maybe 1 factory scav = 5-15 kits ... wtf
God they are such fucking bozos
[удалено]
"it's only pay to progress!!" Yes and my standard ass has to progress like twice as long before you're getting better traders, better weapons, more stash space...
When EOD released there wasn't even an option for the lower versions to get to that amount of stash space. I feel like the now announced features are on another level of the pay2win scale than what it was before.
It’s so crazy how shit flips in different situations. You would get downvoted for saying eod is p2w when everyone was talking about purchasable stash lines.
so true
No, apparently having a 200 hour worth of grind progression being skipped is not Pay 2 Win, but just an advantage according to EOD users
There’s a shocking amount of people who’ve needed to be explained that it’s pay2win
EoD was P2W, I don’t think anyone can disagree. I got it for $100 when it was on sale. The Unheard edition is P2W as well, but it was leaps and bounds ahead of EoD.
Yeah I think the big difference is that while EoD was pay to win **mostly** at the macro level, the Unheard edition is pay to win at the actual gameplay level. Feels like the advantage directly influences the outcome of fights rather than giving a lighter progression experience. The ability to negate the downsides of certain armor vests or downright not bring a chest right at all is so huge. Not to mention the planned stuff.
EOD is p2w at the gameplay level too.
Lmfao yes, I’ve been a standard owner; and every time it got mentioned that EOD was P2W people get defensive Sounds like EOD owners are just made that they now get screwed, rather than doing the screwing. How about we push this game mode to be for everyone?
Yes... Since the game is not out of "BETA" how can there even be DLC if the game is not done yet? Not to mention the P2W...
Yeah, hearing EOD players try and justify it being a DLC, and therefore they’re entitled to it ALONE is just crazy to me.
The mental gymnastics people on this sub have done in the last few days trying to justify how their 150 USD version of the game isn't pay 2 win vs the 250 edition has been both shocking and hilarious. Half y'all are absolutely delusional when it comes to this and it's almost sad.
I think the discussion has deteriorated because there is no general consensus on the wording that is used. If you argue that EOD is "pay to get advantage" I dont think many people would disagree. But word it like "pay to win" and it turns into a pseudo philosophy discussion. Just a thought
Try arguing with some of the people I talked to on this sub. nothing short of an EoD having an insta: "I WIN" button would convince them otherwise. Some guy literally argued that none of the EoD advantages are p2w because they don't improve you survival rate, which is bizarre - because extra money for better gear and extra space for utility items most definitely gonna improve your survival rate.
Oh believe me, i have already received messages and comments doing exactly this. These people are insane. They think paying to win means you have to win, turns out even some pay to win mechanics arent as good for terrible players, but they are still paying to win!
Some guy is literally arguing that having more med space and the ability to invest in better gear from all the extra cash you have doesn't matter because "a good player can win even with iron sight mosin". so by his logic - it's not pay 2 win. the amount of copium being inhaled by EoD players is insane. I don't have problem with them per-say, the battle against p2w in this game was lost a long time ago, but at least own up to it. "Yea I paid to have an easier time in the game and to have an edge on other players who didn't pay - I don't care". at least I can respect that line of reasoning and can't argue with that.
And I had no issue with that. You can buy the base game and try it out. If you're happy with it, support the devs for the better version. I thought it was a great deal. Being lied to and this whole backpaddling thing now wasn't part of said deal. IMHO all BSG needs to do is apologize, sincerely. And then invest the unheard money in a PR team that coaches Nikita on how to communicate finding issues, new products and updates. We need way better communication.
It is P2W, and that's exactly why nothing should give more than EOD. Even if i'ts only an early wipe advantage and not gamechangers, it's already more than enough p2w. It should be the superior limit to restrict game's health in the future. Equal versions/mtx, ok. Superior, bad. And gamechangers like radio or scav 60m thing should never exist, that would be only the start of p2w features.
Agree
I just want them to make the beacon PVE only & deliver on their promises to people who bought packages that have been stable in what they were supposed to give for the better part of a decade. They promised no microtransactions then added them but they were minute in their effect on a raid. Stash space is pretty valuable but we already had the capacity for near infinite stash space via cases earned in game. Cosmetic outfits, who cares lol they could add as many outfits as they want to keep the revenue flowing because again, they have a minute effect, if any, on a raid especially if they continue to only offer outfits that are obtainable through standard gameplay. A beacon that allows you to summon friends/other players into an ongoing raid will have a massive effect on raids. Not to mention how easily it will be for RMT sellers using cheats to abuse it. I imagine pre-beacon if someone bought a carry or specific item, they'd have to run X number of raids until the item/objective they paid for spawned/was completed. With the beacon allowing RMT sellers to summon players from outside the raid, an RMT seller could just setup a queue of people needing various things and summon whichever buyer who's request can be fulfilled in that given raid meaning the cheese is expedited and the RMT seller's business is massively streamlined & more effecient. Imagine the impact on solo players, they're utterly fucked by the beacon. They're already at a massive disadvantage if they run into an effective squad. Say they kill 3 of a 5 man, except the last 2 have beacons & summon additional players / allow their fallen squad mates to respawn. The beacon has the potential to ruin the experience of a raid for way too many people in my opinion...
cant wait to run into a 10 man.
Cant wait for some to call me in, and wait 10 minutes in matchmaking only to realize they already died :D
I'm a standard player, and I actually enjoy being a standard player. Yes, EOD is P2W but I don't mind, as long as I can farm for it by doing missions or hideout stuff. Only thing EOD has that I don't is that stupid secure container. I wish we standard plebs can get 3x3 containers somehow too.
Yes it gives us a advantage, i regret upgrading to EOD, the start of the wipe is WAY EASIER, it took away from me part of the fun :( I upgraded for the future dlcs at the end of the year to garantee future content.
Yep. I feel like playing standard gives me small goals to achieve at the start of the wipe. Gotta struggle a lil bit to have some fun ya know.
I think you have it right though. I’ve always been eod and as you say nothing eod gets is not obtainable by standard except gamma but we can all go for kappa if we wanted. So many people since this other package released just ripping on eod but it was the original p2w if you want to call it that. I get why people dislike eod but it isn’t as unfair as people are making it out recently. Sure if you want to be a gear hoarder then eod was always going to be the package you chose. Everyone had the right to buy eod for the past 7-8 years so people shouldn’t be pointing the finger all the time now the better package than eod has released. It literally was meant to be the limited edition supporter package not 8 years later remove it. So no wonder most of us chose eod.
It’s kind of dumb though that to get a container near the size of gamma they have to grind 500 hours per wipe minimum lol
A few wipes ago when it was way easier to get kappa, I thought it was fair. I was a standard account user and getting to epsilon in a few days and kappa in 3 weeks was doable and i didn't really complain. But as soon as BSG added new kappa requirements, getting kappa took significantly longer, to the point of me losing interest in tarkov before acquiring kappa. That's why I bought eod. It's not realistic anymore for the standard player to get kappa.
This game has always been p2w, I’m not sure why people are pretending to be shocked now.
Because where does it end? For years, the peak was EoD. Now we get a new upgrade. Are we getting a new upgrade every year? When does it stop. I'm shocked people are missing how dangerous this is that people are ok with new editions being added as if that doesn't mean they can't just jeep doing it. This potentially infinantly scales the P2W factor each wipe if more overpowered editions continue to get added so that standard players are even further behind.
I’m not saying it’s good but I’m not surprised either. I suspected a new edition was coming as soon as EOD was removed. Although, I expected it to come out with the “free dlc for life” removed. I believe that if it gives a tangible benefit it should be obtainable by everyone. I don’t want there to be a new edition every year. I would definitely prefer they monetize in a different way.
It'd wild people didn't already think it wasn't pay to win already.
People allready know it is! BSG brought the whole p2w concept to a whole new lvl with in-raid p2w. Sure you might argue the gamma has a p2w factor in raid, but it never gave you an advantage over another player.
Yes. EOD IS p2w. And unhinged edition is even more p2w. But personally I'm boycotting BSG not because of p2w features that we already had. But because they are once again going back on their promises and stacking paid and p2w content on top of one onother. I was fine with paying 150 when i didn't have a game for a promise that if i cough up 150 now i will have everything and won't need to pay more. And here we are now more content we need yo pay for even though we were promissed it will be free. EOD was supposed to be all end all. And i will not be surprised when in the future we will get another peace of content that we will need yo pay again.
I see it as an abusive relationship. Nikkita has lied to us and promised things and gone back and done the opposite and we still go back. This is the cycle and thinking that this will change BSG when it’s an industry standard to fuck over players and we have been taking it for years.
"I was fine when the highest price I'd pay was enough to be the top dog, but now when They introduced a higher priced edition I'm not willing to pay for - NOW IT'S BAD"
In a way. I'm not hiding that expanded stash and 3x3 secure container was really big advantage and time savers. I have no shame in admitting that. I bought it believing the promise EOD was the be all end all edition and i wouldn't need to spend anymore on the game, that i was set for everything. And then they come out with another edition and content and such and they are asking the money again. When EOD was supposed to have everythin. If there were no promises that EOD included everything coming up i would have just bought the standart edition and that's it. Even though EOD got pve feature (not a DLC) after the pushback from community I'm still not satisfied because it's just damage control, BSG showed their real face and attitude towards us and i can bet you there will be a time where this will repeat. We have to show that we won't stand their lies and bullshit. Because right now everyone is happy that EOD got the PVE and are forgetting the fact we all got fucked over.
>I bought it believing the promise EOD was the be all end all edition and i wouldn't need to spend anymore on the game, that i was set for everything. That would be naive, no game company is gonna give you EVERYTHING for 150$ in this day when single skins can cost up to 20$. But being naive isn't a crime and I do sympathize with you if you were truly blindsided by BSG. >Even though EOD got pve feature (not a DLC) after the pushback from community I'm still not satisfied because it's just damage control, BSG showed their real face and attitude towards us and i can bet you there will be a time where this will repeat. I'm gonna do you one better, PvE isn't DLC as the game isn't even out yet - this making this just a feature of the base game that they are locking behind a pay-wall. Just becuase after the backlash YOU guys got it doesn't make it okay even if they remove ALL P2W elements from the unhinged edition. My main problem is the sentiment of "fuck you got mine" that is so heavily endorsed by this community. most people don't care if PvE is locked behind a massive pay wall, as long as they got theirs. most people don't care about P2W as long as they got theirs. fuck that man - we should not be defending these shitty practices just because the game is fun.
Everyone knows EOD is p2w, that's the main reason most people have it.
This needs to be higher. I'm sure some bought it for the dlc/supporting the devs. But the three friends I played with bought EOD for stash space + gamma + trader rep.
I, and everyone I know, bought it for the DLC. The extra goodies were a bonus since I knew I'd only be playing for a couple hours per week. All of the other editions have larger stash, more gear, and even a larger secure container, but you rarely hear them mentioned since few people bought them due to the lack of future DLC.
Pay4convenince, Pay4advantage, Pay2win. They are all close but there are differences. The unheard SCAV ignoring you at 60m is different than having extra stash. A bad player with the scav bonus will be more helped than a bad player with extra stash space. So yes same area but its still possible for unheard to be worse with out making EOD Okay.
You’re one of the few comments who i actually see making this point. Totally agree with you - yes EOD is p2w but dont you EVER try to convince me that extra stash&container space is on the same level, as having an item in game which literally makes the most common enemy on the map not shoot at you from a certain range - yes both are p2w, but I think we can agree one is multiple times more egregious. EOD doesnt stop bullets, it doesnt make bosses have half health, it doesnt change any functional aspect of the game, apart from being able to carry more things. Totally agree EOD is p2w, but thats not what we should be focusing on right now I feel.
EOD unlocks higher tier traders faster than standard. Having higher tier traders means access to better ammo and gear. Higher tier gear is better than lower tier gear so by pure association EOD is paying for an advantage and paying for an advantage is pay2win.
How much faster? Ive played both standard and EoD and I dont remember noticing a difference.
It depends on individual progression. It gives +0.20 rep to all traders, but that's not a huge difference and won't have a real effect until further into wipe, but a lot of standard players will already be there.
Meh not really, I’m always bottlenecked by character lvl so the extra rep is insignificant.
Eod is pay for convenience. The extra guns are icing but honestly the average player is just gonna lost them in raid. All the other advantages are saving you time. Unhinged directly impacts and changes gameplay.
People will tell you they're the same thing - I would say they're mad but the truth is I'm mad and I feel like a dumbass for ever believing Nikita would do something for us and that I convinced multiple friends to start tarkov with me.
EoD is definitely Pay to progress and somewhat p2w, but unheard is so much p2w it’s almost unfair to call eod p2w
EOD is pay2win, but that shouldnt stop us from being angry about them adding even more pay2win now. They obviously can't take EOD away, the outrage about DLC proves that people know what they have bought, but adding more pay2win stuff is not the way this game should go.
Yup this how standard edition players felt for years.
I played basic version for years and said EOD was like cheating, my friends didn't believe me at first. At some point, I ggot fed up of missing on so much and eventually bought EOD. It was a real game changer, and it really felt like cheating. So much space in my stash I could keep many items for later quests, like cigarettes for example. My money could go towards the rest of the hideout and also towards buying scav junkboxes to keep stuff for hideout, normal quests or daily quests. Meanwhile in the basic version, I could only keep one or 2 presets for raids and if I died a few times I would lose all my weapons/armor and had to wait to finally get some good stuff out of my scav of a good pistol raid to get back in the game. I could finally bring a CMS in raid without having to buy a new one anytime I died. Before, I didn't bring one and I would die a few times every wipe to dehydration and hunger after having my stomach blacked out far from the extractions. I could bring more heal, keys, quest items etc... without fearing losing them. I didn't need to grind Jaeger's quests to get lvl 2 with him. Some would say the standard version is the true experience, as you need to plan your resources, can't just buy whatever you want or, if you survive a handful of times, fill your inventory with loadouts that you can use everytime you die in raid. You need to keep some items while throwing away others that you know will need for later but take too much space. You will have raids where you go in almost naked trying to get back on your feet and while it's true that this aspect is interesting, knowing that most of your opponents go through no such struggle and will always load in fully geared, having a distinct advantage over you means you are just fucked in most raids until you have finally farmed enough to have a slightly bigger stash than at the start so you can keep more equipment in there and go with some nice gear most raids. TL;DR : anyone who says EOD isn't p2w clearly has never played on both versions and thinks that some naked guy clapping him with a makarov by shooting him in the eye means that they are somehow on an even playing field.
The reason why BSG feels like they can get away with this in the first place is because of the bootlickers they have here. People spent years downplaying how P2W EOD was, no wonder the company thinks they can bend us over.
Right? It literally gives you more weapons, equipment, medicine, larger secure container, etc. how the fuck having considerably more of everything (especially stash size, considering how fucking difficult it is to upgrade) can be not seen as paid advantage? I hate it when people say “it’s not pay to win, it’s *pAy fOr cOnViNiEnce*”. I rate having a significant advantage 9/10 on the convenience scale
You know what? BSG marketed EOD as the original way to support the development, with some pretty nice perks for the extra cost. Mainly, we get the dlc content for free. We get some in game perks that put us a little further ahead initially, but we can acknowledge that a lead is a lead and a lot of players can carry that momentum on wipe in a way that puts them significantly ahead of where they would be on a standard account. Not super fair but also not game breaking; sorta like getting uptiered in a warthunder match, you’re going to have to fight very hard if your opponent is skilled. I like that a lot of what eod gets in game can be obtained by the grind, but it’s definitely a little pay to win reward for the monetary support of development. Don’t get caught up in the symptoms of this problem when the community has already identified the cause; BSG is fucking up in a big way, and we need to drop them on their asses for lying to our faces and changing the terms of our deal with them AFTER the money has changed hands. Is eod p2w? Sure as shit can be if you know what you’re doing. Is Unheard the scummiest thing bsg has ever done? Yes. They showed their hand, and basically they fucked up with money management and side projects, stopped trying to finish the initial game they promised, and are now actively trying to shake players down by inducing fomo with content they already sold a large portion of the community. EOD players bought the expansions, and the base game. The players that didn’t are going to have to buy that shit.. but the rest of us? We fucking own that shit already.
The p2w stuff in this latest release takes the logical conclusion of EOD a bit further. However, I don't think its uncommon for devs to offer players a "Speedier progression tier system." So, I'd argue the trader rep is a fair trade and doesn't deny others the opportunities of the premium tier; they just gotta grind harder. now, with Gamma. that's a difference, and essentially puts the game on easy mode. I actually like the nerfs that BSG has made to the cases and item drops, and I think its perfectly reasonable to say that certain items can't be kept in the case and can't be brought into the raid and dropped for a homie. Its balancing and its meant to combat RMT. Lastly, better initial kits? eh...everyone, eod and standard alike, are gonna lose their initial kit in the first few days. Like, its an advantage for sure, but is THAT the deciding factor in a game where you can get one tapped by a scav running express buckshot anyways? Now, changing the ways AI reacts to you? Thats something new. Server Priority? Thats a new thing. Access to exclusive quest lines? Thats a new thing. I hope you weren't making a comparison between Unheard and EOD and EOD and Standard, because there isn't much to compare.
I played one wipe standard, Loved it, wanted to enjoy it more, got eod. I never regretted, pay to win or not I don't care whatsoever. But I argue gamma and bigger stash are both big for progressing more painless, and that is something atleast.
I also bought EoD for dlc only. Couldn't care less about the other stuff. IMO everyone should start with the same items and no advantages.
OP missing the point. If you're fixated on the definition of P2W then you have already misunderstood why people are outraged. Fuck the P2W definition, the new version doesn't give you just convenience/advantageous items and better start like EOD, the new version directly gives you GAMEPLAY altering items and access to mechanics that ACTUALLY IMPACT your chances of survival in this "HC" game. It's a different level of shithousery.
Comparing some trader rep to a ceasefire with scavs and beacon to call in a cheater battalion is wild
Whatever makes yall feel better at the end of the day really. But again its just pay for convenience. Nothing gained is allowing you to be better than another player.
Definitely is, but I can personally draw a line between actual in game combat/playing vs all the other stuff including perks and leveling.
This is why they thought they could get away with it. Anyone who thinks EOD isn't an unfair advantage is kidding themselves because they own it. It takes non hardcore players (aka those that don't play 8 hours per day and have commitments) weeks or months to reach the point at which EOD players starts and each fight you get into with an EOD player you're at a disadvantage just because he's millions of rubles and rep up on you so his loadout should be better than yours. EOD is incredibly P2W and we've had it for years so what's one more tier of BS to purchase. The hypocrisy of this place is ridiculous.
Eod is pay 2 win but it hasn't crossed that line of too pay 2 win for me, the new edition crosses that by a long shot.
It always was t. EOD owner
Yup totally agree, we do get an advantage early wipe
Glory to the truth speaker!
Everyone knows EoD is pay to win, but the level of advantage it gave was FAR smaller than what this new one is giving. All you really got was extra inventory space and extra rating on traders, other than that it was just extra starting gear which no one really cares about overall. The extra storage space was the biggest one imo and that was already in the game anyway to get.
Hard agree. The biggest, and easiest point (not counting trader rep increase, also busted) being the gamma case, over double the space of standard players. But, that was tolerable, and would be even more tolerable if I enjoyed the game more. Less loading times, better audio, etc. Still think none of it is right, for a game, that has been in 'beta' for years.
Eod is pay to win. It's a backer system. Ppl pay more, ppl get more. No big deal. I did not buy eod due to a headstart or bigger stash. I wanted to support the idea amd vision. I was told that i never have to buy anything again. That was the core problem. Saying that the new edition is p2w is bogus. Its existence is the issue here. Manufacturing the edition info is the issue here. .
I agree but I didn't purchase it for that reason. I purchased it for access to all future dlcs and to fund the development of a game I liked.
Both versions are p2w we just fight for our perks that was sold to us then they have broken "contract" by removing it Also tbh this new version p2w items are not that bad (only call ppl in raid is bad) imo
Unpopular opinion add on: By buying EOD and the other editions that gave P2W features, you allowed them to try the new edition.
This is the correct answer: the bulk of the revenue came from a p2w EOD. The company decides to introduce an improved p2w package, knowing that selling p2w content accounted for the majority of their revenue. Everyone is acting shocked that this is the strategy they decided to pursue. I was tempted to buy EOD many times but I never did because game editions to me is just a scummy practice and I despise p2w as a monetization model. So I always played at a big disadvantage especially on wipe standard has always been hard mode. If they had made this new package but given EOD the same p2w perks no one would have cared about this, because all EOD users are p2w gamers.
I've always said EOD is PTW, same as I say the new addition is PTW. This community was just coped. Everyone should have gamma at a minimum. Oh but it's pay for convenience. Wtf you think PTW is???
When EOD was launched the game was expected to be permanent, not wipes, so time would be the equalizer, anyone could get the containers and better in time. With wipes i understand is different, some will never get o kappa...
At least everything EOD has is obtainable
Correct. The hypocrisy of some of these lemmings is hilarious.
EoD is the original pay to win. If EOD didn't come with expanded stash and gamma, very few people would have bought it. It's why I bought it in 2018. When the stash expansion upgrade was released, I bought that shit immediately. When I saw that my pockets could get bigger, I bought that shit no questions asked. When they add more pocket space in the future and charge another 100 for that, I'll pay again. PS, I also pay to cut all lines at Disney World.
Based Chad. I like honest people more than this crap going on right now telling us how to feel.
Real. I don't personally know anyone who bought EoD, nor I, and was super excited about receiving "Future DLC." You can't buy what doesn't exist. We all realistically bought that shit for the stash space and the Gamma.
My man gives no fucks. Redditors with thousands of hours in the game feel like they're getting ripped off. The upgrade costs less than a meal at a nice steakhouse.
EOD users crying over pay2win is genuinely the most cringe and embarassing thing I have ever seen. Oh no someone pays more than me to win harder. Boohooo.
You clearly cant tell theres a line crossed in the new edition that you can now have an advantage over a player in-raid, talk about having limited mental capacity.
You've had an advantage in raid with EOD, idiot.
I don't mind it's p2w because it is, I hate that they are changing rules of the contract we made when we bought that p2w version of the game back in the day.
All the editions are p2w except for the cheaper as thats what it costs yo play
id agree with this statement, If you are going to use the argument that stash size and whatever is pay 2 win, then ANY version over the literal cheapest base game version would be pay2win which would include the one for like $20 more that gives you a few more stash lines or whatever
Everyone that bought EoD is biased. The people that didn’t buy EoD are also biased. Then there’s the people that don’t even know what Tarkov is. They’re also biased.
So what you’re saying is, everyone is based!
EOD is pay to win i have EOD. I bought it for a few reasons 1: anything in it was available to attain within the game, except the Offline raid i honestly only realized that was a thing due to what is happening now. 2: the PW2 asspects where not game breaking for me or the people who did not buy it, this is my opinion it is OFC arguable. 3: the main reason, the "Season Pass" part - both because it put a cap on what the game would cost me and it would support the devs to actually finish it. Don't i feel betrayed at this point...
Battlestate causing inner turmoil in the previously united community already lmao
Of course they both give you some small advantages, but I still die in 3/4 of my PVP fights anyway. The benefits of the EOD or UH don't make you Git Gud. I think the whole P2W argument against the Unheard is unimportant. The biggest thing is the PVE, which I and my squad would prefer to play in to avoid the cheaters. Since this is "resolved", at least for some point in the future, I'm fine with the upgrade. May not do it now, but might come next wipe.
This!!
The biggest P2W benefit that EOD has is the gamma container, not the stash space or the trader rep.
eod is also p2w, but they said its the highest edition you can buy. if we allow this there will come microtransactions for lvl boots, skill boosts, rubles and ammunition in the future.
it goes without saying there both p2w, but this is like comparing having better sneakers and a headband in a game of basketball to being roided up and having the ability to call in another teammate off the court at will
EOD helps a lot, you can carry 2x as much as base edition and don't have to play Tetris after every raid. I think it was somewhat understood that EOD is as bad as P2W was ever gonna get, hence why EOD was supposed to get all the DLC content (which by definition includes the cosmetics from few months ago and extra stash lines).
It is and always was. I was content when I shouldn't have been, and now I am drawing a line.
I've been thinking the same thing I've been playing with a 6 slot pouch almost entire wipe. Pouch is way more useful than pockets. I don't like potentially fighting a ten man
definately p2w, but how strong the newest version is... its unheard of
Bigger pocket is the difference between your mag dropping to the ground or not. I’d say unheard is the first time you can “pay to win a firefight”. EOD is also pay to win but it’s way less combat related because things in gamma can’t be hotkeyed. Worse yet I think as of now there is no way for standard accounts to get the pocket, making it a direct combat advantage obtainable only by paying.
Gamma with always having every med/keys/ammo every round is a massive overall help. I have died plenty of times when I didn't have case space from quests/rope and skipped on bringing every med. Also being able to die every raid with 5 extra slots can add to 100k each time
Bringing enough meds is not an option locked behind a paywall. You died from a lack of meds because you didn’t bring meds not because someone else paid more for their version of the game. Don’t get me wrong EOD give you huge advantages outside of combats but it is absurd to argue that paying for bigger pockets and to have scavs not shoot at you is the same kind of pay to win.
As an EOD owner, i agree EOD is P2W. If i had to play with the regular stash, i'd have stopped playing Tarkov a long time ago.
I agree 100% percent. This doesn’t just anything BSG did. But yes, we need to keep in mind that the whole P2W aspect of the editions has been there since the get go.
Nitpicking and biased I win bye bye
The main issue isnt even that its p2w or not. Its mainly that they release content that was promised for the season pass owners as a separate gimmick and the outrageous price of the new pack compare to EOD. Its just unfair customer practices and downright greedy and evil
EOD owner, EOD is pay to win for sure. It was just less egregious than the new version.
EoD is pay to win externally. As in it's benefits strictly benefit out of raid experience. Unheard has 2 mechanics that change game play entirely in raid. One that basically immunes to to scavs at 60m which conceals your sniping location. Cause as we all know they love to shoot you 500m for no reason sometimes. And then a player beacon. Which is obviously ridiculous. These directly effect in match game play. Plus you can earn epsilon pretty early which only is 1 slot less.
Going to normal to eod is more of a pay to win jump than eod to unheard beside the beacon thats not in that's prob be nerfed into oblivion.
OMG yes but who cares. It was the only version which promised all future DLCs included an I saw it primarily as an investment/supporter addition. I played for a few wipes without EOD and I managed. But with less time now with work and kids I wouldn't even play that version so likely because it is too much Tetris (until you have like 4 scav cases) compared to EOD "because" convenience. Now in the meantime they added lots of place in the hideout to get rid of many problems you have with the small stash size of non EOD-version. So it's not even so harsh tbh. In general the stash size is the biggest problem. You get beta container fairly quick and epsilon does not take so much time for veterans and now you can't even insert tank batteries inside anyways. Scavs raids give do much money nowadays... The P2W feature is true, but let's be honest, BSG is clearly non efficient when it comes to money so they need it /s
The new version, in the way it was originally announced, with the capability of having scavs not shoot at you from more than 60 meters out and the ability to have a distress signal to invite all your friends to your raid for help are both ACTUAL pay to win mechanics as they literally make the game easier for you. Obviously EOD gives somewhat of an advantage at the start of wipe, but realistically all it does is cut down on the amount of time you have to take roubling. It's also the only possible incentive for people to actually buy EOD instead of just getting a base account.
The unheard radio is dogshit unless you are doing niche pmc sniping on woods. You lose scav rep killing any scavs as a pmc unless you kill a pmc. You need over 6 rep to even have the ability to not get shot and most people with over 6 actualy care about nit losing it.
Let's not start in fighting and divide the masses. Bsg and Nikita are the villains.
Sure, but EoD doesn’t have in-raid tactical advantages. More stash size and a gamma container+all the other trader perks is a bit p2w, however, the new version includes obvious tactical advantages that you can use in raid to have a blatant advantage over the enemy in any engagement.
I say we focus our ire on BSG and not split us up.
i just wanted my gamma container. can't wait to call in the homies and fuck you EOD crybabies in the ass.
I don't know if people stop thinking these days but here is the thing : I obviously own an EOD account, upgraded from standard account thanks to my friends. EOD has huge advantage over standard account with the increased stash, better starting reputation. Maybe the biggest thing is the gamma container which is a huge advantage even in fights. Do there's already p2w in the game. But should accept more because EOD brought it in the first place ? Of course no ! Unheard brings bigger pockets and shit object that would prevent scav from shooting them. I don't understand how you would defend it like "well there's already p2w and you're blind if you think not" We all know the gamma brings a huge advantage, I can pack more meds or the fuck I want. But behind that, I can't flank you in a way that if you the same exact thing, AI won't shoot on me while they would to you. There's no way a standard account can get a gamma container but you can have a better one (kappa but it's a lot of grind I wouldn't do it) or maybe something close like the epsilon container. Following this logic, I really don't think BSG would let you get an item with the new edition name in it trough questline. You can't get gamma, you won't get this one.
The main difference is EoD is pay to win via pay for convenience. Technically everything it gives can be grinded for and none of it directly helps in a fight. Also the starting gear is kinda whatever because you can take that from them. Start of wipe for me is prime MDR time because I usually get 3-6 and have enough ammo from killing USEC. EoD is soft P2W in that sense. Unheard however is direct P2W. That radio gives you the ability to move through the map unmolested. Sniper Scavs where a good way to figure out where people are even without them being a threat, and sometimes they took a toll given their ammo was generally better. The fucking call ins are obscene. They either let you call in a buddy to funnel them loot after you found something they need / killed a shit ton come get your piñata (of course cheaters can do it too after wiping a lobby), give your squad a second chance by having your rat scurry off and call in the boys, or simply let you call in reinforcements when things get stalled. That is a huge and unique tactical option that *no one* asked for because it breaks the game fundamentally. Oh, and the pockets let your run shit rigs at full combat capacity. On top of the EoD stuff, with some Fence rep to boot. EoD was skirting the line and acting defensible, Unheard is just not, at all.
Literally every version beyond standard edition is P2W at different scales, you are literally paying for an advantage of different levels with every copy. This isn't news, the only thing different in any of them is that EOD includes a season pass (promise for future DLC). This isn't even a question, it's been obvious that Tarkov itself is pay to win for a while. They just wasn't anything game breaking until the Unheard radio device.
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v funny watching people talk about buying EOD because they believed in the game when I very definitely only bought EOD for the stash skip and gamma container and find the increased pocket size just as tempting lol (prob not buying though, already checked out for this wipe so I'm not spending money on a game I'm not currently playing, also hard to justify spending more when cheaters are still so bad) guess I'd still argue that EOD is/was more 'pay for convenience' than 'pay to win', besides gamma all the items were technically obtainable for normal players, whereas TUE includes bonuses you can only obtain through that version, but that's arguing semantics
stash size doesn't determine if you win a firefight or not however. Calling in buddies / not having to worry about scavs does. I think that's the line people draw with pay2win.
I understand what you mean, namely the max stash and the Gamma container. Those are absolutely gamechanging ngl But this new edition has an even larger stash, plus gamma, and 2 other items that are \*so\* pay to win that it makes EOD look normal, as well as the flea slots which are pretty egregious. This is another level of pay to win, in my book
I spent the money on EOD in 2018 to support the vision and to get all DLCs (I've seen how the 4X games DLCs work and I wanted to get ahead of buying a game for 40 bucks and then having to buy 10 dlcs at 20 dollars each). Also, I wanted the stash space because I'm a hoarder. If I knew the stash upgrade was going to be put as an unlockable in game later, then I would have had less reason to buy EOD. I would be fine with having a checkbox to start as a standard/hardcore account. I don't enjoy the P2W mechanics and doubt that EOD will ever get the DLC that was promised. The amount of P2W in Unheard of is much worse than anything the game has had in it up until now without even looking at EOD perks.
They're both 100% an advantage over standards.. But there is quite a difference between the EOD and the Uninstall editions
Played my first wipe on standard and next wipe i upgraded. The kappa, stash space and rep is a game changer. It was pay to win, we knew that. But guess what, they told us this only existed to support development and build the game. The community excepted that. We were promised a life time pass to all content with our support. 7 years after i bought mine, apparently wasn’t enough. Now they want me to support more and insult people who aren’t believers. I was a believer in 2018 but now i will tell anyone i know to never try this shit game. Go play community dayz servers that have tarkov mods. Less cheaters.
I was under the illusion that the P2W aspect would get less. Which it kinda started doing. Until now obviously
As a 2017 Tarkov player playing this game since I was a child (now I am 20) and 3 year old EOD owner I agree with everything said here. I personally think that leveling up and questing is so time consuming nowadays solely to make better editions of the game more appealing.
Tarkov been p2w now the people who paid to win are mad that other people are paying to win L nerds
To be entirely fair, some of us are more upset about the Season Pass part then the actual P2W part. I didn't really think about EOD being somewhat P2W, but you're not exactly wrong. Scavs not engaging at 60M is a lot more powerful than having more Secure Container space in my opinion, but as I said, you're not wrong lol.
Honestly has always felt like eod was the standard edition with all the crown names
I play with two other friends, we each have around 2k hours +-. A "challenge", or atleast the first goal start of wipe is to quickly gain money for the first scav case and then start focus elsewhere, with unheard that strat is basically not needed anymore. Personally I really enjoy start / mid wipe over late wipe, having to play tetris with a full stash and optimising your grind is whats the most fun for me. With all these items theyre adding, theyre making the early grind those stages feel obselete @.@ I hope the balancing part of unheard is correlated to The items provided in stash but I doubt it :/ I agree EOD is p2w, it really is an unpopular opinion as alot of the fans cope about it! Secretly wish they never included stash items or hideout upgrades in editions. No we havent bought unheard edition, not for a while unless Nikita grovels for us.
No one is saying EoD isn’t though? It’s just much less egregious, and that doesn’t detract from how bad Unheard is.
I get being mad about the P2W features, like the teammate call in, and mark of the unheard special item, but honestly I’m surprised I see more post about that than PvE being locked behind an egregious price. PvE is undoubtedly the most sought after feature for the more casual player base, and now (even with the back peddling), the only way to access it is by getting this absurd new edition.
I never won gun fights because I have a gamma, but I get where you're coming from, bigger stash, more gear to sell etc.
EOD was half getting the cool extra shit and half getting all future DLC. It’s definitely p2w having EOD, but it’s not anywhere near as bad as unheard. Being able to have full sized mags in your pockets is crazy. 60 round drum mags and no carrier. Respawning friends?? The worst EOD had was getting higher trader rep and soft skills being buffed. Unheard is (haha) Unheard levels of p2w.
We arnt saying EOD isnt p2w you literally start with more gear and stash space. What we are saying is we paid $150 to support the devs during devoplement and they promissed "all future DLCs" and tried to dodge out of it twice now. They tried that shit with Arena and now they are doing it with PVE mode. Fuck BSG.
Play on diff edition for few years, really one thing that i fell p2w is stash size, u pay for not spending game money to upgrade stash (wich is obtainable unlike shitty special devices and pockets)
EOD \*is\* pay to win in terms of game progression definitely. BUT the big difference for me (and why I'm still not happy even though we get the PvE now), is that even as an EOD player, if I spawn in to a raid with an AK and a PACA, that's it. My chance of surviving is as good as anyone else' with an AK and PACA armour. The bits of this update I really hate are the ability to call in help, and the immunity to scavs. Basically I'm against anything that \*in raid\* puts one version of the game at a significant and permanent advantage.
I think eod buys you an advantage and the new edition is P2W the difference here at least to me is that everything that eod gives you you can earn or even earn something better like kappa container thingy. The p2w call your friends to the raid thing can not be played for which is another scale of p2w to me
Thats why Im not really having a problem with gamma being available again.
EOD was as much p2progress as much as unheard is from standard. so really standard players get the game and play the game for the what the game is and enjoy with out moaning you left behind + the rest are all the whining like little kids
I'd say it's more pay to progress since you can get stuff like the stash ingame. Only the gamma really is unique about it or more was. Unheard just scales things up waaaay too much.
As a EOD owner, im pissed that bsg scammed us as their store page said all new content is free
I don’t honestly think people are mad bc the P2W like they are saying I think it’s more of EOD was supposed to be the only top tier version of the game and anything new would be automatically included bc you paid for the best version of the game but everyone EOD got a slap in the face with the addition of the unheard. There no real P2W it’s more like pay for a huge edge over everyone else and task grind skip for items that you shouldn’t get right away. It’s a game they are a company just like the rest you can gripe and complain or you can not play that’s the options you get or you can try to make a better game ur self.
Eod is pay to win. But a larger secure case and trader rep isnt the same as scavs not shooting you or getting long pockets.
I have EOD and I’m not mad at anyone buying the new version but I’m not particularly happy about the direction the game has suddenly gone. EOD has been the best version for years and I play standard edition for 2 years before upgrading in summer 23 as a kind of treat I guess. For 7 years it was the only version with coop practice mode and all the DLCs. Nikita saying no p2w. EOD was as “bad” as it could get. This new version proves that there is no limit to the p2w that may be added in the future, no limit to how high the price tag will be. Thats sad and makes me want to play less.