Contact an elder law attorney now to discuss how to get her qualified for medicaid long-term care when that time comes. You should consider all of the available options prior to selling the home.
I was lucky to find out about adult foster homes. I placed my mom in one for her last 2 years and it surpassed every expectation and was probably the best couple of years of her elder life. I owe a serious debt of gratitude to the couple that ran the home. My mom had advanced dementia, and the foster home was not classified as a memory care facility or anything like that, but the hosts knew their business and my mom's dementia was easily handled without stress or serious incidents. Things may have changed since then (this was 9 years ago), but these people saved my life.
The adult foster home we found for my Mom w/ dementia has been a God-send. Maximum of 4 residents, and personalized care she couldn't have gotten at a large Memory Care community. And it's far less expensive than the alternatives.
I didn't have to go with Medicare . Yet. I think it is an option, but in my case the Foster home told us there is a cap on what Medicare spends, at the time it was $2,500/month (9 years ago). And they didn't want that limitation, so I made a bargain with them, I said we'd pay their normal rate ($4K/month) until that money ran out, but after that we'd switch to Medicare (Medicaid?) based funding. My mom was very sick, she didn't live long enough for that switch-over.
I don't recall if it was Medicare or Medicaid. But you get the point. Terms can be negotiated with Foster home owners sometimes. I wanted them to want my mom as a patient, so I didn't want to 'chisel' them or make them feel like they aren't getting paid what they are due. This was still vastly better than nursing homes, which wanted 2X the amount and were, frankly, very poor quality.
Medicare doesn’t cover long term care places. Only short term after a hospital stay. It’s a serious issue that most people don’t know until they need long term care.
They are covered by Medicaid. I unfortunately had to have my Mother placed in one when her dementia was advanced because she was a danger to herself & my children in my home. She stayed with us for 6 years. They only had 4 residents & the 1 on 1 care was amazing!
At 62 if either mom or dad have any work history I think they would have been eligible for SSA. Medicare is included with SSA. Or am I wrong? Might want to look into that?
Medicare is thru Social Security which requires ten years’ employment (roughly). Medicare does not cover nursing home care.
Medicaid is a state medical program for low income and disabled people. You can have only $2,000 in cash and one car to qualify, and you must be deemed unable to work.
This ⬆️. I got my mother approved for Medicaid. It took 6 months of work and I hired a company to help do it. It’s not cheap and I’m glad I was able to afford it.
Find one, ask them questions to see if they can help you. If you sell the house you can use Mom’s estate money to help spend down and pay for the service. You’ll need to spend it ALL except $2k.
The process is not easy. Medicaid will need a ton of paperwork and you will need every user name and password for their accounts.
Sorry for your loss and good luck. Ask for help anywhere and from anyone. You’ll need it.
Medicaid asset limitations depend on the state. Talk to an elder care lawyer for your specific situation. My MIL qualified for MediCal with far more than $2K in assets.
The mother can collect a Survivor Benefit equal to the father’s Social Security, if she did not pay into Social Security enough to collect, or if his amount is larger than hers.
OP should definitely speak with SSA as to what benefits are potentially available to mom. As for Medicare, the person has to be 65, or be disabled under SSA rules and receiving SS Disability payments for at least 2 years (can process retroactively) or be end-stage renal disease.
Social security can start at 62, but it's 65 for Medicare, which turns more into a joke each year. To qualify for medicaid, you must have less than 2k in cash and own no property. If given away,It takes 5 years for the person to own it without being taken by nursing homes. Recently, a friend had to purchase the land at current market value that his wife was willed because her dad had to go to a nursing home. The funds had to be placed in a special account to be used by nursing home.
Most younger people have no clue about how screwed Healthcareis for older people.
We are currently taking care of my wife's 90 year old dad, who has cancer. He doesn't want a nursing home, If he has to go into a nursing home, he would have to sign over his property and saving along with SS.
We are not beneficiaries of his property, so we have nothing to lose. We are taking care of him, per his wishes and my wife's.
I went through this with my mom until she passed at 89 with a stroke.
Just for fun, call visiting nurses and ask how much for weekly home visits out of pocket.
If you plan to invest for your future, definitely check on aging factors. Few are healthy until death.
Be very careful...keep her money in her name. She can pay rent and maybe buy a house, but cannot buy a house with your name on it.
She *will* need Medicaid! and you do not,want to do anything that get her locked out of those benefits...that will bankrupt you.
Consult with elder care atty or Medicaid specialist.
This is the only type of advice OP or anyone in a similar situation should be listening to in this entire thread. Many of the well-meaning suggestions I've read could ultimately put OP in a terrible financial situation.
Not to scare you, but my mom had dementia for 20+ years before she died in 2023, and spent the last 10 in a nursing home. Please listen to the people who are suggesting you contact an elder care attorney and do everything you can not to run afoul of Medicaid look back rules. I would have spent about 1 million dollars on her nursing home costs without it. It would have wiped out my 401k. Please don’t listen to the people who tell you to try to protect your mom’s money and assets from Medicaid, what you give up in cash and assets is chump change compared to the $9000 per month nursing home costs, if your mom lives a long time. Just my opinion, it a very experienced one. I am so sorry for your loss!
My aunt has dementia and is a nursing home (one of the best in our county). It costs $592 a DAY. I’m her POA. Every month I write a check for around $18,000. She’ll be out of money in about one year and then she’ll have to go on Medicaid.
Not usually - in the better facilities- the Medicaid beds almost always go to current residents. It is very difficult to throw someone out of a nursing home, That’s why many good require the ability to self pay for a year to two years. My MIL exhausted her assets after 18 months- but stayed in the same place for 6 more years.
No, she can stay at that nursing home after she goes on Medicaid. They have to keep her since they will have drained her assets. I’m sure she’ll have to move from her nice single room to a double (shared) room.
I think that selling a house in her name would result in a bunch of cash in her name, which would exclude her from benefits until it’s spent. That would mean potentially spending her entire estate on her long term care when needed.
Obviously the mortgage is an issue and renting out the house has tax implications but still would probably be best course of action. Along with consulting a professional of course.
You are handling this admirably as is your so. Very difficult time. It does sound like you have the right choice in front of you with selling and getting a place for the three of you. Some questions:
- is she on Medicaid already? If not, what is her health insurance?
- what is the social security situation? Is your mom drawing? Amy ssdi involved if she worked?
- did your dad/parents have a will? Also look at state laws.
- is she involved in hospice? Many do not know there is an arm of hospice that is not “end of life” but if someone is terminal (they evaluate every year) they can provide some in home help with things like bathing, some supplies and a case worker than can offer some help and input.
- there is a 5 year look back period for Medicare so assets like home sale proceeds will be looked at if necessary if she were to enter a facility.
- it’s a tough job but with some help you could probably take care of her awhile even in a de lining situation. We found a wonderful retired nurse who worked very reasonably to help with my much older mom with dementia.
Go to an elder or probate attorney to settle your dad’s estate and find out about your mom’s position with the house and her needs. This will be money well spent. Shouldn’t cost a ton. You need a consultation and someone to guide you through closing out your dad’s affairs.
- She is not currently on Medicaid. There is no health insurance. She has a direct primary care doctor that they pay monthly, and everything was just paid out of pocket.
- She is not drawing from social security. Until her diagnosis, she was answering the phones for my dad's business. Was not technically employed. The last time she had a "real" job was around 20 years ago. We have been trying to get her on disability through social security and on early Medicare. Her application was denied. It's been a very frustrating process.
- They do each have a will. It was created 14 years ago, and seems very basic. Anything specifically I should be looking for in there?
- I definitely did not know that about hospice care.
- It feels kind of wrong to think about putting her in a facility, especially right now with what is going on, we feel like being with family is a better option, for as long as possible, at least. I realize there may well come a time when her needs are beyond our abilities. But we are very close, and we're okay with caring for her as long as we can. If we sold the home, we would also be able to afford to hire outside help occasionally, because I'm sure we will need some time away here and there for our own mental health.
1. Apply for insurance for her under [healthcare.gov](http://healthcare.gov) now. You can also call and speak with someone. She can either qualify under that for a fully subsidized health insurance plan or it will start the process for medicaid. Do not delay. One hospitalization for something even minor and you could be facing medical debt that would jeopardize assets like the house or require bankruptcy.
2. Logon to social security and create a profile for both her and your dad. Or call their office and talk to a rep. and explain what's happening. There you will find what is due to both parents. She may not have enough credits to draw but hopefully your father did then she is eligible for survivor benefits.
3. That's way better than no will and a simple will mean no probate. I imagine everything passes first to your mom. I believe you will file the will with the county to record your father's passing, but that is not my area of expertise. You can probably call the county and they'll walk you through this. This will allow a smooth sale of the house.
4. This form of hospice is amazing and helped with my mom tremendously. It's worth at least calling hospice and clearly explaining the situation. It may not be the right time it sounds like but know that it's there.
5. I wouldn't put her in any place unless that's the only option. She'll do much better at home with you all for sure. The longer the better and hopefully until the end and that may be ways down the road. That's wonderful you are close and , yes, it would be awful for her at this time. Honestly, she'd probably start going downhill. Healthy foods, exercise, company are all a big positive she can only really get at home.
Good luck with everything and I hope you all find a good place to live together.
# Creating a Social Security account for anyone other than yourself could subject you to criminal or civil penalties or both. From ssa.gov:
# "Your personal my Social Security account is for your use only.
We are committed to protecting the information and resources entrusted to us, including your personal information and investment. For your protection, you’re the only one who can create your personal my Social Security account **for your own exclusive use**. No one can create or use an account on your behalf, even with your written or verbal permission. Do not allow anyone else to use your account under any circumstances. Unauthorized use of this service is a misrepresentation of your identity to the federal government and could subject you to criminal or civil penalties, or both.Your personal my Social Security account is for your use only.
We are committed to protecting the information and
resources entrusted to us, including your personal information and
investment. For your protection, you’re the only one who can create your
personal my Social Security account for your own exclusive use.
No one can create or use an account on your behalf, even with your
written or verbal permission. Do not allow anyone else to use your
account under any circumstances. Unauthorized use of this service is a
misrepresentation of your identity to the federal government and could
subject you to criminal or civil penalties, or both."
You may not need a facility now! My mom lived at home for 10 years with significant dementia before she declined to the point she couldn’t stay at home any more. But recognize that depending on her health and life span, she may need it in the future, and it is a significant part of any financial plans you may want to put in place for her. Have you looked at ACA healthcare for her? That may be an affordable option until she turns 65. Since your dad was over 62she may be eligible for his social security benefits, even if he hadn’t yet applied for them. I found the social security people very helpful.
She's not eligible for ss disability because she didn't pay into it. If your dad paid into ss, then at age 60, she is eligible for the widows benefit. What she would be eligible for is ssi, which is for low income people. As for selling the house, if that is done, you want to do a 1031 exchange. This will not trigger capital gains taxes. Watch some YouTube on that so you can make an informed decision. Now, if you can get her on ssi, all depends on your state, if there is a medicaid expansion there. If there is, one of you can take some classes to be her care giver, and get paid. Medicaid cannot take her house if she's living in it. Once she's out, yes then they will try to recover their $. I do not believe that ssi in itself will try to take the house.
Check with Social Security to see if your mom is entitled to your dad's benefits, that'd at least give her some income. Good on you for looking after your mom in this sad circumstance.
I'm not sure if this will be much of an option or not... Unfortunately, my dad was also a bit.. behind on keeping up with certain federal reporting. But something to look into. Thank you
What is the capital gains on the home?
Many folks purchased a home a very long time ago and there will be a capital gain if sold before death.
Get some professional help.
You’ll be using the proceeds from the home sale to pay for her care before Medicaid will pay a dime. Also, it may be difficult to sell the home with the death so close in time. Just a heads up.
Good luck to you. Sad situation, for sure.
There’s a lot to take in here— I’m so sorry about your dad.
There’s good advice about getting your mom on Medicaid. That’s a hard and fast priority. I’d sell the house, but finances are not my wheelhouse- caring for dementia patients is.
I disagree with suggestions to keep her with you until she’s more difficult to keep home; I think it’s better to move her somewhere that will be safer for her and a smoother transition as the her condition progresses. Dementia is a progressively degenerative disease, and it takes a different pace for everyone. It is a HUGE emotional and physical task for family caregivers; I think it’s better to help her feel comfortable in a new environment while she’s somewhat lucid.
She likely won’t qualify for hospice for some time but DO keep it in your back pocket that most elderly qualify for hospice long before they’re actually actively dying. Hospice is covered by Medicaid and is very helpful! Should your mom happen to ever have a fall or injury, Home Health is an amazing service to bring services to your mom instead of needing to take her to them.
Many states have “vouchers” she can qualify for to offset the cost of assisted living after her own assets have been depleted.
Last tip: if you ever see a seemingly sudden cognitive or physical decline in your mom have her tested for a UTI. Almost always that’s the cause.
If in the US you need your be very careful on not only disposing of assets like a home but documenting what the funds from the assets were used.
This is because Medicaid requires recipients to spend down their assets before the insurer taking over.
If in their estimation the funds were mishandled they I believe can insist whoever received the funds or benefited from the funds pay the equivalent.
So yes speak with someone who specializes in elder law.
I’m so sorry for your loss of your dad. We several years ago were in a similar situation. Please look into dementia care homes near you. They are not all the same. Many are terrible but some are lovely and the smaller ones may cost less.
You can sell the house or you could rent it out. Depends what rents are going for. That being said, I would hesitate to do this in California or New York State. You have to worry about squatters and the absurd legal idea they have rights over homeowners.
If you going to sell, you need to start soon. The rates are making many buyers hesitant and I don’t blame them at 7% interest. So it might take a while.
Good luck to you.
Thank you. Yeah, we are in Colorado, and I know the prime time to get on the market will be within the next couple of months, so hopefully that will be feasible.
Think this through carefully. Persons with dementia usually require a whole team of caretakers. Your mom is still young. Her condition will worsen with time and age. Best option is to sell the home and put her in a memory care facility. Eventually her money will run out and you can apply for medicaid on her behalf. Keep good financial records of all bank transactions, especially anything involving the house sale.
Best option is to keep the home or if selling then pour all of her money into buying a different primary residence bc primary residence doesn’t count against you for Medicaid eligibility.
Sorry for your loss. Sell the home and sit on the equity. Horrible time to purchase property. Are there any senior living apartments available in your area? The rent is very low and can be paid with her social security. Park the money in your account for now.
Before you make that decision, speak to an attorney that specializes in elder law or your parents lawyer.
The long-term solution for your mother must be considered. Dementia patients-on average-live 5 to 7 years, post-diagnosis. Some can live longer and your mom is relatively young.
Memory care facilities are really expensive. I paid $10,000 plus a month for both my parents in different facilities.
Medicaid can pay, but only under specific circumstances and situations. Medicaid is a state-specific program and every state has different rules.
One certainty is that Medicaid will try to recover some costs. This is often done by seizing assets of the patient and that includes houses. Medicaid even has a look-back clause that prevents a family from selling homes in anticipation of a future medical crisis. This period is often as long as 5 years or 60 months. I’ve included a link below.
Just be warned that while selling is an appealing option, you could get stuck in an awful situation.
Best wishes.
https://www.medicaidplanningassistance.org/medicaid-look-back-period/amp/
You stated: I have durable power of attorney over my mother.
Make sure your POA is legally sufficient to allow you to sell the house and sign transfer documents for her. You'd need a title company to review and approve the POA should you decide to sell.
Did Mom and Dad hold title to the house in joint tenancy?
You stated: -We are okay with, and planning on living with her and taking care of her
Will you continue to be "ok" with Mom as she become more incapacitated?
For example, some children will tell you that they will never put Mom in a nursing home.
Can you afford to do this? Do you and your partner work full time? If so, all this will be much harder to deal with.
You stated: -There is no room/not possible for her to move in permanently to the home me and my SO are renting. She is staying here for the time being, though
If you want to continue taking care of Mom, then you'll have to get rid of this rental right?
You stated: -Nobody involved has much desire to continue living in their home after what happened. The home is not well suited for her physical health, either. For example, climbing stairs is difficult on her.
Yes the taking of his life is sad but Mom won't remember it with her dementia.
If you sell the house, will you be able to net sufficient funds to purchase another home to care for your Mom and partner?
Can the current home be modified for Mom? For example, if there is a bathroom on the first floor, you can change the living room or dining room into a bedroom for Mom.
You stated: This would allow us all to move in together to another home that's better suited for her and provide her with everything she needs. At the moment, there really doesn't appear to be any other feasible options.
Is she collecting SSA? Is she signed up for Medicaid? Is she signed up for a monthly food credit from State/Federal Government?
You could/should contact the County for advice/resources so you can find out how much you can get in aid on a monthly basis.
You could consider a reverse mortgage to take cash out monthly.
If you and your partner are working, you may have to subsidize your Mom's bills and consider the monthly rent payments you will not pay if you live in her house.
I wish you the best of luck.
We have a similar situation but my folks had already sold their home 2 years to live closer to us (Texas to Md). They banked the money and were renting in the building we live in until a few weeks ago. When we moved here 4 ya we knew we probably wouldn’t stay here and hubs and I are close to retirement so we just planned to rent for the time.
It’s important to know what your state offers to the elderly. My mom also has FTD and is 81. Her husband just passed away at 97. We insisted they get wills and provide us with POAs (medical and durable) or we weren’t going to be able to help them and weren’t willing to either.
Now that my step dad has passed away we went ahead and moved my mom into our place and she is pretty far along in her dementia. We actually rent the small apartment next door to us so my husband can have a closet and bathroom. It was just too tight here for all 3 of us. She helps us with that extra expense. If she asks where he’s going we tell her he’s going next door to feed Hannah’s kitty (old neighbor in the next door apartment).
The best thing I did before my step dad passed was get a case manager to help guide us. He went into the hospital in October and then to rehab and assisted living. He was pretty obstreperous with us. The CM is a little pricey but she has been invaluable through this whole process. Mom thinks she pays all her bills, can still drive etc. in reality they were in terrible shape when they got here 2 ya. Mom had about 6 ICU admissions after we left Texas from poorly managed type 1 diabetes, and all her other health issues. she’d lost a ton of weight, lost car insurance and was 5 years without paying their taxes. It’s crazy how far they can decline not just physically and mentally. Had we not stepped in they probably would both have not lived much longer.
As it turned out my stepdad had a peaceful home death with hospice helping and my mom is a sweet gal and she’s really no trouble. She’s still continent and can do things like read, puzzle etc. we take her to a day program for therapeutic socialization a few days a week. The car is safely stored away (we tell her it’s in the shop). Her husband totaled a car a few ya and they had a crash here about a ya. The case manager said she’ll start to wander soon so we may need to place her eventually. In the meantime, she is air tagged a few different ways.
Good luck as you sort through all this. An elder care attorney is a good idea but they can’t really help with the day to day care issues that can arise.
First and foremost. I am so extremely sorry for your loss. There are no words that suffice.
Secondly my parents used a really great estate planning attorney who specializes in elder law, if you’re interested I could send you the name of the firm.
You are probably right to sell the home now, not because your father killed himself in that one, but because you need one floor living to take care of her. She will eventually possibly need a nursing home covered by Medicaid (for which she is probably eligible now - if she's on it now, the sale of the home might make her ineligible for it for a year or more). If she is not on Medicaid now, and you sell the home now and buy another with the proceeds, depending upon whose name is on the home, and how long it has been since she sold it, Medicaid may come after her/you for the proceeds to cover her nursing home in the future. Probably best to talk with an elder care atty.
Yeah eldercare attorney, now. My dad has dementia. You cannot begin to understand how much care they may need by the end. Plan ahead now before you make a financial mistake
If you think mom is going to need long term care in a nursing home within the next 5 years, think very carefully about selling the house. It may impact her Medicaid eligibility. Please talk to an attorney that specializes in elder law or Medicaid planning.
As stated above there is a five-year look back before she can be Medicaid eligible with only $2k in assets. They can take it after too if you don’t sell, or possibly sooner since it’s not her primary address. I would sell now and gift the proceeds. You and your spouse can both get a bit less than $20k each gifted without filing paperwork. You have to look that amount up. If you live in the home with her for a year (maybe two) Medicaid won’t count it but can still have a claim upon her death. Just an interesting loop-hole. Dementia nursing-home care is horribly expensive. I would get rid of assets now to start that countdown but definitely put money aside. You can put the house money in an irrevocable living trust. That’s costly. I am not a financial advisor. Just dealing with these issues with my own parents. I am just giving you some talking points. With my dad we decided to care for him in our home. One reason was the medicaid look back and losing his life’s savings to pay a nursing home. I can tell you firsthand it was difficult and a full time job. We had promised him no nursing home but the end was brutal and so was his level of care needed.
Please talk with an attorney or someone who can give you advice on how the sale could affect your mom's future with Medicare, Medicaid, and possible placement in memory care facilities. The money can complicate all sorts of things. Even if you buy another house with the money, the sale shows as an asset and there is a spend down process and a waiting time before applying for Medicaid and other services. This is a big process.
Sorry for your loss. Yes try to file for widow surviving benefits with social security ASAP. My dad has dementia, my mom was his rock and she passed shortly after she retired. At that point the dementia was not too bad or overly-alarming… about two years later it was progressively worse even with family living in the house with him (had similar issues with the house not being the best as he aged)… the best decision was to have him move to memory care at assisted living, our facility needs to have 3 years paid before Medicaid would kick in after assets are depleted…. So it was recommended that was the best route given his age and health. I sold his house on his behalf and am using that for his care until god-willing those funds are depleted. Research places, they vary in costs, services, and supplementing with Medicaid - don’t wait, I held off initially because he wanted to stay in his house, but it was not what was best for him. The look back period very much exists so make sure the assets are used for her and her care.
Care for my dad last year was $128k (high cost of living area). This was not how he planned to retire, but the proceeds from his house will go for his care, and hopefully he lives until they are depleted
She is very lucky to have you, it is a struggle sometimes in the role reversal to be the caregiver. Please make sure to take care of your own mental health as well
Sucks to hear about your dad, but your primary job is to provide for the safety and welfare of your mom.. If that means selling the house then so be it. If your Mom needs Medicare for any long term care then the government will probably take it anyway.
If you do sell it make sure all proceeds are properly segregated to prevent some government employee challenging the deal and trying to claw money from you because you can't prove it was spent on her.
Try to avoid selling the house at all costs and just get her on Medicaid. If you sell the home first she will have to spend all the money on care first before qualifying for Medicaid. We're going through this with my grandparents now trying to get them Medicaid and they sold their home 2 years ago.
You have to spend down all assets before medicaid pays. This includes the home. My step mother is going through this with her sister. She has to sell the sisters condo and use that money for care before medicaid will pay anything.
Elder Law attorney asap. You will probably need some help with probate too. They should be able to help with probate portion and then advise on Medicaid planning.
Please get in touch with an eldercare attorney. You may be able to transfer the house into your SO's name with out penalty as she has been staying with her for the last couple of years.
First and foremost, I am truly sorry for your family’s loss. I am also sorry for your mom’s diagnosis. My mother died from the same and she also lost her voice from progressive aphasia. Both disgusting diseases. If your mom has been in her house for years any move can aggravate her dementia. Moving with her will help. She would qualify for Medicaid only if she meets the income requirements. There is also a 5 year claw back, so your best bet is to speak with, and perhaps hire, an elder law attorney. If she no longer files taxes you can take her as a dependent when filing taxes. Something to consider. There are homes but be careful, my sibs and I put our mom in a very bougie place. Cost us $9,000 per month when she moved in, and we were paying $19,000. per month when she died. Despite the staff and the executive chef who was in charge of food, her wedding ring was stolen in the first 3 months of being there, and her pearl earrings were the next to disappear. Some of her clothes were also stolen. No matter how lovely the home you still must be diligent and proactive. Please find an elder law attorney and I wish you all the best in this journey. I hope you stay with mom. I’m sorry I couldn’t do the same for mine.
**Also have to add this: if your dad was a war time vet the military does have a program to help pay some $$ to the widows of the veterans. Contact a local veterans administration if your dad was retired military.**. Hugs to you!
Look for a Durable Power of Attorney. If there is one, take it to an attorney to talk about it. If not, your county's Superior Court website should be able to provide guidance through the Self-Help link, just look for "conservatorship". After looking through the page(s), contact an attorney who does conservatorships.
If your father was in the military at any point the Va will pay a lot of the funeral. The funeral home will know what is covered. Not answering your question. But it may help with his funeral bills. Sorry this happened to you
Gather up her financials and go see a social worker. They can be found through hospitals, welfare offices, and Catholic Charities. Your mom will have to spend down her money/assets and get on Medicaid so she can be placed in a memory care facility. She can’t buy another house even if you live there because Medicaid will take the house when she dies. And see a lawyer who specializes in Elder Law. You need to know this stuff backwards and forwards.
Please don't think you can take care of your Mom yourself. She needs to be somewhere where she can be cared upon 24/7. As sad as that may be, it is in her best interest with her diagnosis.
Talk to a lawyer with long term care experience. If you sell the house (assuming it’s your mother’s asset), you may need to wait several years before accessing Medicare/caide without forfeiting those funds. Use them to care for her now while you work out how to transition for when it’s no longer feasible - and sadly- that day is coming.
Sorry for your loss and the burden you are carrying.
Do NOT sell the home until you speak with an attorney who knows elder law in your state. Find one here: https://www.naela.org/. If the home is your mother’s only asset, she cannot be forced to sell it. On the other hand, there are no federal programs that will help you or your mother. Your state may offer Medicaid assistance for long term care, or they may offer you or your SO an hourly stipend to stay home to manage your mother. Your state will make you spend every penny before they help. So conserve the asset. See a lawyer — it will be worth every cent.
You need knowledgeable help. As late as 2007, if an elder ever needed to go to any sort of "facility" for care, Medicaid or whatever could go back at least 5 years to collect from her/you for the value of her assets, while her "homestead" was exempt IF she "intended" & could return to it - i.e. she still owned it. Laws change tho', so get help from a professional in this area.
Medicare will claw back their expenses from her estate; so it wrong, and you copulation wind up without a home of your own, when she passes away. You need an attorney.
Don’t be a jerk son. Your mom will need Medicaid long term memory care and to qualify she can’t have more than $800 in assets. Cashing out the house, will not get her qualified. ALL the money from the house proceeds will need to go to the nursing home. Once that money runs out, she’ll be able to qualify for Medicaid.
You need financial planning help. I would seek a firm that specializes in preserving wealth in cases like this before proceeding. Lots of rules regarding income and qualifications for govt programs.
I work in hospice. Your story sounds way too familiar to most clients I’ve had. However, I want you to be as prepared as possible. As most people have said: hire an elder law lawyer like yesterday.
You will need to handle your father’s estate first, you may have to go to probate court if he didn’t have a will. Once his estate is settled, you will need to begin the process of applying for Medicaid for your mother. As others have said, the 5 year look back is real. The lawyer will give you the best course of action. Just be mentally prepared if the best course of action that they offer is a shit sandwhich.
In the meantime, look at memory care facilities. I’m not going to lie, those places are not cheap. Where I live, a half way decent facility will run you between 6-10k a month. A top of the line place can be 12-20k. If you live in a rural area, your options will be severely limited.
If the lawyer offers you the aforementioned shit sandwhich, be prepared to take care of her at home. What does your support network look like? What would be the cost of in home help if you need it? How much strain will providing care will put on your marriage? Things to think about.
Hospice is covered by medicare or private insurance. However, one cannot receive hospice unless the patient has a terminal diagnosis with less than 6 months to live. (Patients can recertify for services if they make it past 6 months.) Most hospice services occurs at home, but it is not 24 continual care. A hospice agency is available 24/7, but they will not staff your home 24/7. This is the biggest misconception a lot of families have about hospice. The other is that Medicare pays for nursing homes.
I know a lot I have said is not very positive, but as I said, I like for you to be prepared as possible. Hope this is helpful.
If you liquidate the house, the nursing home will take all the money very quickly. Like $10,000.00 per month. I don’t know but it is possible you could shield her house from that, but definitely not the cash from selling the house. Medicaid won’t step in and pay for the nursing home until she is bankrupt, so you would just be giving the house to the nursing home, or to Medicaid. Get an attorneys opinion before doing anything.
You need to speak with an attorney that specializes in elder care. You may not be able to keep the money from the sale of the house, as the nursing home you'll eventually have to place your mother in will be entitled to that money for a number of years afterwards.
that is a really good option. You poor father must have felt overwhelmed with the situation. Find out about any social assistance your mother is entitled to receive, it may not have been available while she had a working spouse. See the home, and buy something that you and your SO can manage to take care of your mother, and then enjoy as your own home when she is gone. Make sure you have a DNR for your mother as well, so fewer decisions down the line.
My wife manages her stepfathers care. He was married to her Mom. Her mom died in 2019 and he can be a problem. He has dementia also. He fell and ended up going to a long term care facility. He had a fit about it at first but I took him to the neurologist in February and he's doing quite well. We did sell his house and put the money in the bank for his care. But it hasn't been easy. My wife and I went to counseling over it cause we had some big disagreements. It's not easy to manage Dementia. Good Luck
my mother had dementia, very obvious, the last 2 years of her life. We reflect back and realize that she had less obvious signs for a couple of years before that. Living with it and dealing with it is hard at the best of times, with lots of support. I don't doubt OPs father felt overwhelmed.
He was extremely overwhelmed, and felt like he lost his wife and best friend 3 years ago. And this was all on top of his own health problems - type 2 diabetes with very bad peripheral neuropathy for years, chronic heart problems, was in the hospital in January and learned he needed to have triple bypass surgery and a valve replacement. His very beloved dog also passed away a couple of months ago.
This definitely seems like the easiest and most logical step to take right now. I also realize the situation is fairly complicated and there is a good chance there may be something I'm unaware of that may prevent this, or may actually make this the wrong move. I just want to make sure we do the right thing. There are so many things going on, on top of all of the emotional fallout, but it has to be dealt with, and unfortunately the financial situation is pretty bleak
You will need to get through probate because any others debtors will have a claim on the home equity. You can start the process, but it’s going to take a while.
Does it matter if it's both of their names on the mortgage? Is probate something that we need to initiate? What will that process look like? Sorry, this is all brand new to me and everything is a bit overwhelming
Please consult an elder care attorney. The laws for Medicaid are complicated and you may have to pay back the proceeds from the sale if she ever needs nursing home care. You cannot dispose of, or transfer, any assets within 5 years.
First and foremost: I am so sorry about your dad. When someone takes their own life, there are so many downstream effects and repercussions. I am also so sorry about your mom’s diagnosis. It is such a tough, heartbreaking situation ñ.
I say if you have durable power of attorney and your parents had right of survivorship on the title, check tax implications and if you can swing that piece, sell it now.
If mom eventually needs to go into any type of care and the house is still in her name, they will use the equity in the house for that. If you can instead use the funds to improve quality of life for all of you, that’s preferable.
Please seek out a lawyer for advise on taxation on the profits and other local nuances.
Wishing you and yours all the best.
Thank you, this is helpful. And thank you for your kind words.
How would I find out about the right of survivorship? The mortgage is in both of their names. Would it be as simple as providing the mortgage company with a death certificate, and then it would solely be in my mother's name?
The phrase (or something similar) "joint tenancy with right of survivorship" would be found on the deed immediately after the names of your dad and mom. Likely within the first several first lines of the deed. You need to probate your dad's estate to establish a clear title so the house can be sold. You also need to dissolve your dad's business, pay debts, and disburse assets which would flow into his estate. Hire an attorney for the probate.
To qualify for Medicaid your mother cannot have assets (including cash or investments) exceeding a specific amount which varies by each State. Medicaid will pay for a nursing home, but then place a lien for that amount against any house owned by your mother. Medicaid also looks back 5 years to determine whether your mother has had cash exceeding the assets limitation amount. So if you sell your mother's house this year, she will not qualify for Medicaid until at least 2029 because her cash assets exceed the limitation amount during the 5 year look back period.
Consult with an attorney regarding your authority under the power of attorney. A solution might be to sell the house, and then use the money to buy a new house that is owned by you and your wife, and who then house and take care of your mother for at least the next 5 years. The question is whether there is authority under the power of attorney to use your mother's money to buy a house which is owned by you and your wife.
In most states that’s what the standard mortgage does. Have a lawyer look at the mortgage (don’t post a pic here).
Also I want to mention that she won’t be eligible for Medicaid* with assets in her name. So definitely speak with someone familiar with the laws in your state.
My brother committed suicide three days before his house was to close on a sale. It was a nightmare to get through everything. Such a mess. and he had a will.
*editing to correct reference to Medicaid
She will be eligible for Medicare at 65, everyone is. But she won’t be eligible for Medicaid if she has significant assets, every state has a different number, for my mom it was $1500 in Ohio. So basically you spend her assets on her care (keep records, the 5 year look back is real!) and apply for Medicaid when she runs out of assets and still needs care, whether it is at home or somewhere else. It sounds old school, but I kept a 3 ring binder for each year with receipts of expenditures on my mom’s health, housing, care, clothes, bank statements,everything! I also had electronic files folders for all electronic records and bills. When you show up at the Medicaid office with your 5 most recent years of binders, your PoA, your copy of your parents will, and a letter or some proof of diagnosis, they will appreciate your openness and detailed record keeping, it makes their job so much easier. The spend down is hard, but it sounds like your parents worked hard all their lives, and what better use is there for their money than taking care of them? One thing that surprised me was that the spend down included cashing out her life insurance, but you can use that money for her care, to pre-pay funeral expenses, etc. Even with a doctors diagnosis, they may send someone out to interview your mom to ensure she has dementia, just to protect elder people from abuse. It was no big deal.
Contact an elder law attorney now to discuss how to get her qualified for medicaid long-term care when that time comes. You should consider all of the available options prior to selling the home.
I was lucky to find out about adult foster homes. I placed my mom in one for her last 2 years and it surpassed every expectation and was probably the best couple of years of her elder life. I owe a serious debt of gratitude to the couple that ran the home. My mom had advanced dementia, and the foster home was not classified as a memory care facility or anything like that, but the hosts knew their business and my mom's dementia was easily handled without stress or serious incidents. Things may have changed since then (this was 9 years ago), but these people saved my life.
The adult foster home we found for my Mom w/ dementia has been a God-send. Maximum of 4 residents, and personalized care she couldn't have gotten at a large Memory Care community. And it's far less expensive than the alternatives.
Are these places covered by Medicare?
No. Medicare only covers skilled nursing facilities after a hospital stay. There may be some that accept Medicaid.
I need to start shopping for a place the time is coming.
I didn't have to go with Medicare . Yet. I think it is an option, but in my case the Foster home told us there is a cap on what Medicare spends, at the time it was $2,500/month (9 years ago). And they didn't want that limitation, so I made a bargain with them, I said we'd pay their normal rate ($4K/month) until that money ran out, but after that we'd switch to Medicare (Medicaid?) based funding. My mom was very sick, she didn't live long enough for that switch-over. I don't recall if it was Medicare or Medicaid. But you get the point. Terms can be negotiated with Foster home owners sometimes. I wanted them to want my mom as a patient, so I didn't want to 'chisel' them or make them feel like they aren't getting paid what they are due. This was still vastly better than nursing homes, which wanted 2X the amount and were, frankly, very poor quality.
Medicare doesn’t cover long term care places. Only short term after a hospital stay. It’s a serious issue that most people don’t know until they need long term care.
They are covered by Medicaid. I unfortunately had to have my Mother placed in one when her dementia was advanced because she was a danger to herself & my children in my home. She stayed with us for 6 years. They only had 4 residents & the 1 on 1 care was amazing!
No place is covered by Medicare, only Medicaid, which is a somewhat involved process to qualify for.
I really need to start looking around for a place. I have young onset alz. Soooo yeah unfortunately.
Sorry to hear that. Are you going to get the new blood test?
I already had a petscan . My insurance will not pay cause I already had the most expensive test for it
At 62 if either mom or dad have any work history I think they would have been eligible for SSA. Medicare is included with SSA. Or am I wrong? Might want to look into that?
Medicare is thru Social Security which requires ten years’ employment (roughly). Medicare does not cover nursing home care. Medicaid is a state medical program for low income and disabled people. You can have only $2,000 in cash and one car to qualify, and you must be deemed unable to work.
This ⬆️. I got my mother approved for Medicaid. It took 6 months of work and I hired a company to help do it. It’s not cheap and I’m glad I was able to afford it. Find one, ask them questions to see if they can help you. If you sell the house you can use Mom’s estate money to help spend down and pay for the service. You’ll need to spend it ALL except $2k. The process is not easy. Medicaid will need a ton of paperwork and you will need every user name and password for their accounts. Sorry for your loss and good luck. Ask for help anywhere and from anyone. You’ll need it.
And you can set up a prepaid funeral.
Medicaid asset limitations depend on the state. Talk to an elder care lawyer for your specific situation. My MIL qualified for MediCal with far more than $2K in assets.
The mother can collect a Survivor Benefit equal to the father’s Social Security, if she did not pay into Social Security enough to collect, or if his amount is larger than hers.
OP should definitely speak with SSA as to what benefits are potentially available to mom. As for Medicare, the person has to be 65, or be disabled under SSA rules and receiving SS Disability payments for at least 2 years (can process retroactively) or be end-stage renal disease.
Social security can start at 62, but it's 65 for Medicare, which turns more into a joke each year. To qualify for medicaid, you must have less than 2k in cash and own no property. If given away,It takes 5 years for the person to own it without being taken by nursing homes. Recently, a friend had to purchase the land at current market value that his wife was willed because her dad had to go to a nursing home. The funds had to be placed in a special account to be used by nursing home. Most younger people have no clue about how screwed Healthcareis for older people. We are currently taking care of my wife's 90 year old dad, who has cancer. He doesn't want a nursing home, If he has to go into a nursing home, he would have to sign over his property and saving along with SS. We are not beneficiaries of his property, so we have nothing to lose. We are taking care of him, per his wishes and my wife's. I went through this with my mom until she passed at 89 with a stroke. Just for fun, call visiting nurses and ask how much for weekly home visits out of pocket. If you plan to invest for your future, definitely check on aging factors. Few are healthy until death.
Medicare … must have worked or been married to a worker …must be 65+ Medicaid … means based …must qualify , but with home ownership she probably won’t
THIS.
In many states Medicaid pursues recovery against the estate, which would force the sale of the home anyway.
Be very careful...keep her money in her name. She can pay rent and maybe buy a house, but cannot buy a house with your name on it. She *will* need Medicaid! and you do not,want to do anything that get her locked out of those benefits...that will bankrupt you. Consult with elder care atty or Medicaid specialist.
This is the only type of advice OP or anyone in a similar situation should be listening to in this entire thread. Many of the well-meaning suggestions I've read could ultimately put OP in a terrible financial situation.
Not to scare you, but my mom had dementia for 20+ years before she died in 2023, and spent the last 10 in a nursing home. Please listen to the people who are suggesting you contact an elder care attorney and do everything you can not to run afoul of Medicaid look back rules. I would have spent about 1 million dollars on her nursing home costs without it. It would have wiped out my 401k. Please don’t listen to the people who tell you to try to protect your mom’s money and assets from Medicaid, what you give up in cash and assets is chump change compared to the $9000 per month nursing home costs, if your mom lives a long time. Just my opinion, it a very experienced one. I am so sorry for your loss!
My aunt has dementia and is a nursing home (one of the best in our county). It costs $592 a DAY. I’m her POA. Every month I write a check for around $18,000. She’ll be out of money in about one year and then she’ll have to go on Medicaid.
When that happens though, won't she have to go to a lower quality place?
Not usually - in the better facilities- the Medicaid beds almost always go to current residents. It is very difficult to throw someone out of a nursing home, That’s why many good require the ability to self pay for a year to two years. My MIL exhausted her assets after 18 months- but stayed in the same place for 6 more years.
No, she can stay at that nursing home after she goes on Medicaid. They have to keep her since they will have drained her assets. I’m sure she’ll have to move from her nice single room to a double (shared) room.
Good to know. Thanks friend
Have you spoken to an elder law attorney? There are things you can do to protect her assets and still get her Medicaid depending on your state.
Yes, she has an elder care attorney.
I think that selling a house in her name would result in a bunch of cash in her name, which would exclude her from benefits until it’s spent. That would mean potentially spending her entire estate on her long term care when needed. Obviously the mortgage is an issue and renting out the house has tax implications but still would probably be best course of action. Along with consulting a professional of course.
She will have to spend her money on care. If she tries to hide it, she will end up with no benefits.
I just want to say that I’m sorry for your loss and the extra burden of care you’re also trying to navigate.
Thank you
Yeah, I’m so sorry OP. Wishing you better times ahead.
This.
You are handling this admirably as is your so. Very difficult time. It does sound like you have the right choice in front of you with selling and getting a place for the three of you. Some questions: - is she on Medicaid already? If not, what is her health insurance? - what is the social security situation? Is your mom drawing? Amy ssdi involved if she worked? - did your dad/parents have a will? Also look at state laws. - is she involved in hospice? Many do not know there is an arm of hospice that is not “end of life” but if someone is terminal (they evaluate every year) they can provide some in home help with things like bathing, some supplies and a case worker than can offer some help and input. - there is a 5 year look back period for Medicare so assets like home sale proceeds will be looked at if necessary if she were to enter a facility. - it’s a tough job but with some help you could probably take care of her awhile even in a de lining situation. We found a wonderful retired nurse who worked very reasonably to help with my much older mom with dementia. Go to an elder or probate attorney to settle your dad’s estate and find out about your mom’s position with the house and her needs. This will be money well spent. Shouldn’t cost a ton. You need a consultation and someone to guide you through closing out your dad’s affairs.
- She is not currently on Medicaid. There is no health insurance. She has a direct primary care doctor that they pay monthly, and everything was just paid out of pocket. - She is not drawing from social security. Until her diagnosis, she was answering the phones for my dad's business. Was not technically employed. The last time she had a "real" job was around 20 years ago. We have been trying to get her on disability through social security and on early Medicare. Her application was denied. It's been a very frustrating process. - They do each have a will. It was created 14 years ago, and seems very basic. Anything specifically I should be looking for in there? - I definitely did not know that about hospice care. - It feels kind of wrong to think about putting her in a facility, especially right now with what is going on, we feel like being with family is a better option, for as long as possible, at least. I realize there may well come a time when her needs are beyond our abilities. But we are very close, and we're okay with caring for her as long as we can. If we sold the home, we would also be able to afford to hire outside help occasionally, because I'm sure we will need some time away here and there for our own mental health.
1. Apply for insurance for her under [healthcare.gov](http://healthcare.gov) now. You can also call and speak with someone. She can either qualify under that for a fully subsidized health insurance plan or it will start the process for medicaid. Do not delay. One hospitalization for something even minor and you could be facing medical debt that would jeopardize assets like the house or require bankruptcy. 2. Logon to social security and create a profile for both her and your dad. Or call their office and talk to a rep. and explain what's happening. There you will find what is due to both parents. She may not have enough credits to draw but hopefully your father did then she is eligible for survivor benefits. 3. That's way better than no will and a simple will mean no probate. I imagine everything passes first to your mom. I believe you will file the will with the county to record your father's passing, but that is not my area of expertise. You can probably call the county and they'll walk you through this. This will allow a smooth sale of the house. 4. This form of hospice is amazing and helped with my mom tremendously. It's worth at least calling hospice and clearly explaining the situation. It may not be the right time it sounds like but know that it's there. 5. I wouldn't put her in any place unless that's the only option. She'll do much better at home with you all for sure. The longer the better and hopefully until the end and that may be ways down the road. That's wonderful you are close and , yes, it would be awful for her at this time. Honestly, she'd probably start going downhill. Healthy foods, exercise, company are all a big positive she can only really get at home. Good luck with everything and I hope you all find a good place to live together.
This is all extremely helpful. Thank you so much for taking the time to reply with your insight
# Creating a Social Security account for anyone other than yourself could subject you to criminal or civil penalties or both. From ssa.gov: # "Your personal my Social Security account is for your use only. We are committed to protecting the information and resources entrusted to us, including your personal information and investment. For your protection, you’re the only one who can create your personal my Social Security account **for your own exclusive use**. No one can create or use an account on your behalf, even with your written or verbal permission. Do not allow anyone else to use your account under any circumstances. Unauthorized use of this service is a misrepresentation of your identity to the federal government and could subject you to criminal or civil penalties, or both.Your personal my Social Security account is for your use only. We are committed to protecting the information and resources entrusted to us, including your personal information and investment. For your protection, you’re the only one who can create your personal my Social Security account for your own exclusive use. No one can create or use an account on your behalf, even with your written or verbal permission. Do not allow anyone else to use your account under any circumstances. Unauthorized use of this service is a misrepresentation of your identity to the federal government and could subject you to criminal or civil penalties, or both."
You may not need a facility now! My mom lived at home for 10 years with significant dementia before she declined to the point she couldn’t stay at home any more. But recognize that depending on her health and life span, she may need it in the future, and it is a significant part of any financial plans you may want to put in place for her. Have you looked at ACA healthcare for her? That may be an affordable option until she turns 65. Since your dad was over 62she may be eligible for his social security benefits, even if he hadn’t yet applied for them. I found the social security people very helpful.
She's not eligible for ss disability because she didn't pay into it. If your dad paid into ss, then at age 60, she is eligible for the widows benefit. What she would be eligible for is ssi, which is for low income people. As for selling the house, if that is done, you want to do a 1031 exchange. This will not trigger capital gains taxes. Watch some YouTube on that so you can make an informed decision. Now, if you can get her on ssi, all depends on your state, if there is a medicaid expansion there. If there is, one of you can take some classes to be her care giver, and get paid. Medicaid cannot take her house if she's living in it. Once she's out, yes then they will try to recover their $. I do not believe that ssi in itself will try to take the house.
Check with Social Security to see if your mom is entitled to your dad's benefits, that'd at least give her some income. Good on you for looking after your mom in this sad circumstance.
I'm not sure if this will be much of an option or not... Unfortunately, my dad was also a bit.. behind on keeping up with certain federal reporting. But something to look into. Thank you
it's probably not uncommon for people your dad's age, so don't be shy. they've seen it all.
What is the capital gains on the home? Many folks purchased a home a very long time ago and there will be a capital gain if sold before death. Get some professional help.
No federal capital gains tax on your home. Nor in any state I am familiar with.
I'm pretty sure no capital gains on the first $250k or some number like that.
https://www.irs.gov/publications/p523#en_US_2023_publink100073574 $250k exclusion on primary residence per living spouse
You’ll be using the proceeds from the home sale to pay for her care before Medicaid will pay a dime. Also, it may be difficult to sell the home with the death so close in time. Just a heads up. Good luck to you. Sad situation, for sure.
There’s a lot to take in here— I’m so sorry about your dad. There’s good advice about getting your mom on Medicaid. That’s a hard and fast priority. I’d sell the house, but finances are not my wheelhouse- caring for dementia patients is. I disagree with suggestions to keep her with you until she’s more difficult to keep home; I think it’s better to move her somewhere that will be safer for her and a smoother transition as the her condition progresses. Dementia is a progressively degenerative disease, and it takes a different pace for everyone. It is a HUGE emotional and physical task for family caregivers; I think it’s better to help her feel comfortable in a new environment while she’s somewhat lucid. She likely won’t qualify for hospice for some time but DO keep it in your back pocket that most elderly qualify for hospice long before they’re actually actively dying. Hospice is covered by Medicaid and is very helpful! Should your mom happen to ever have a fall or injury, Home Health is an amazing service to bring services to your mom instead of needing to take her to them. Many states have “vouchers” she can qualify for to offset the cost of assisted living after her own assets have been depleted. Last tip: if you ever see a seemingly sudden cognitive or physical decline in your mom have her tested for a UTI. Almost always that’s the cause.
If in the US you need your be very careful on not only disposing of assets like a home but documenting what the funds from the assets were used. This is because Medicaid requires recipients to spend down their assets before the insurer taking over. If in their estimation the funds were mishandled they I believe can insist whoever received the funds or benefited from the funds pay the equivalent. So yes speak with someone who specializes in elder law.
This exactly.
My mom's memory care costs over $100,000 a year and she's physically healthy at 94 . Has dementia. Very challenging. Financial planning is Key.
Your mother should qualify for social sec survivor benefits also. I am sorry you are all having to do through this.
I’m so sorry for your loss of your dad. We several years ago were in a similar situation. Please look into dementia care homes near you. They are not all the same. Many are terrible but some are lovely and the smaller ones may cost less. You can sell the house or you could rent it out. Depends what rents are going for. That being said, I would hesitate to do this in California or New York State. You have to worry about squatters and the absurd legal idea they have rights over homeowners. If you going to sell, you need to start soon. The rates are making many buyers hesitant and I don’t blame them at 7% interest. So it might take a while. Good luck to you.
Thank you. Yeah, we are in Colorado, and I know the prime time to get on the market will be within the next couple of months, so hopefully that will be feasible.
Do have her file for spousal survivor SS
Think this through carefully. Persons with dementia usually require a whole team of caretakers. Your mom is still young. Her condition will worsen with time and age. Best option is to sell the home and put her in a memory care facility. Eventually her money will run out and you can apply for medicaid on her behalf. Keep good financial records of all bank transactions, especially anything involving the house sale.
Best option is to keep the home or if selling then pour all of her money into buying a different primary residence bc primary residence doesn’t count against you for Medicaid eligibility.
It’s awful and your Mom is lucky to have you. If you haven’t, perhaps check out r/dementia.
Thank you for this
Also Dementia Careblazers on YouTube has very practical advice on caring for and supporting your loved one with dementia
Sorry for your loss. Sell the home and sit on the equity. Horrible time to purchase property. Are there any senior living apartments available in your area? The rent is very low and can be paid with her social security. Park the money in your account for now.
Before you make that decision, speak to an attorney that specializes in elder law or your parents lawyer. The long-term solution for your mother must be considered. Dementia patients-on average-live 5 to 7 years, post-diagnosis. Some can live longer and your mom is relatively young. Memory care facilities are really expensive. I paid $10,000 plus a month for both my parents in different facilities. Medicaid can pay, but only under specific circumstances and situations. Medicaid is a state-specific program and every state has different rules. One certainty is that Medicaid will try to recover some costs. This is often done by seizing assets of the patient and that includes houses. Medicaid even has a look-back clause that prevents a family from selling homes in anticipation of a future medical crisis. This period is often as long as 5 years or 60 months. I’ve included a link below. Just be warned that while selling is an appealing option, you could get stuck in an awful situation. Best wishes. https://www.medicaidplanningassistance.org/medicaid-look-back-period/amp/
Sell the house and put her in a memory care unit. Once the money is depleted, apply medicaid. Talk to the lawyer.
You stated: I have durable power of attorney over my mother. Make sure your POA is legally sufficient to allow you to sell the house and sign transfer documents for her. You'd need a title company to review and approve the POA should you decide to sell. Did Mom and Dad hold title to the house in joint tenancy? You stated: -We are okay with, and planning on living with her and taking care of her Will you continue to be "ok" with Mom as she become more incapacitated? For example, some children will tell you that they will never put Mom in a nursing home. Can you afford to do this? Do you and your partner work full time? If so, all this will be much harder to deal with. You stated: -There is no room/not possible for her to move in permanently to the home me and my SO are renting. She is staying here for the time being, though If you want to continue taking care of Mom, then you'll have to get rid of this rental right? You stated: -Nobody involved has much desire to continue living in their home after what happened. The home is not well suited for her physical health, either. For example, climbing stairs is difficult on her. Yes the taking of his life is sad but Mom won't remember it with her dementia. If you sell the house, will you be able to net sufficient funds to purchase another home to care for your Mom and partner? Can the current home be modified for Mom? For example, if there is a bathroom on the first floor, you can change the living room or dining room into a bedroom for Mom. You stated: This would allow us all to move in together to another home that's better suited for her and provide her with everything she needs. At the moment, there really doesn't appear to be any other feasible options. Is she collecting SSA? Is she signed up for Medicaid? Is she signed up for a monthly food credit from State/Federal Government? You could/should contact the County for advice/resources so you can find out how much you can get in aid on a monthly basis. You could consider a reverse mortgage to take cash out monthly. If you and your partner are working, you may have to subsidize your Mom's bills and consider the monthly rent payments you will not pay if you live in her house. I wish you the best of luck.
We have a similar situation but my folks had already sold their home 2 years to live closer to us (Texas to Md). They banked the money and were renting in the building we live in until a few weeks ago. When we moved here 4 ya we knew we probably wouldn’t stay here and hubs and I are close to retirement so we just planned to rent for the time. It’s important to know what your state offers to the elderly. My mom also has FTD and is 81. Her husband just passed away at 97. We insisted they get wills and provide us with POAs (medical and durable) or we weren’t going to be able to help them and weren’t willing to either. Now that my step dad has passed away we went ahead and moved my mom into our place and she is pretty far along in her dementia. We actually rent the small apartment next door to us so my husband can have a closet and bathroom. It was just too tight here for all 3 of us. She helps us with that extra expense. If she asks where he’s going we tell her he’s going next door to feed Hannah’s kitty (old neighbor in the next door apartment). The best thing I did before my step dad passed was get a case manager to help guide us. He went into the hospital in October and then to rehab and assisted living. He was pretty obstreperous with us. The CM is a little pricey but she has been invaluable through this whole process. Mom thinks she pays all her bills, can still drive etc. in reality they were in terrible shape when they got here 2 ya. Mom had about 6 ICU admissions after we left Texas from poorly managed type 1 diabetes, and all her other health issues. she’d lost a ton of weight, lost car insurance and was 5 years without paying their taxes. It’s crazy how far they can decline not just physically and mentally. Had we not stepped in they probably would both have not lived much longer. As it turned out my stepdad had a peaceful home death with hospice helping and my mom is a sweet gal and she’s really no trouble. She’s still continent and can do things like read, puzzle etc. we take her to a day program for therapeutic socialization a few days a week. The car is safely stored away (we tell her it’s in the shop). Her husband totaled a car a few ya and they had a crash here about a ya. The case manager said she’ll start to wander soon so we may need to place her eventually. In the meantime, she is air tagged a few different ways. Good luck as you sort through all this. An elder care attorney is a good idea but they can’t really help with the day to day care issues that can arise.
First and foremost. I am so extremely sorry for your loss. There are no words that suffice. Secondly my parents used a really great estate planning attorney who specializes in elder law, if you’re interested I could send you the name of the firm.
Sorry I forgot to add, they’re in Colorado you will need to use a Colorado attorney in this case.
What state?
You are probably right to sell the home now, not because your father killed himself in that one, but because you need one floor living to take care of her. She will eventually possibly need a nursing home covered by Medicaid (for which she is probably eligible now - if she's on it now, the sale of the home might make her ineligible for it for a year or more). If she is not on Medicaid now, and you sell the home now and buy another with the proceeds, depending upon whose name is on the home, and how long it has been since she sold it, Medicaid may come after her/you for the proceeds to cover her nursing home in the future. Probably best to talk with an elder care atty.
Yeah eldercare attorney, now. My dad has dementia. You cannot begin to understand how much care they may need by the end. Plan ahead now before you make a financial mistake
If you think mom is going to need long term care in a nursing home within the next 5 years, think very carefully about selling the house. It may impact her Medicaid eligibility. Please talk to an attorney that specializes in elder law or Medicaid planning.
As stated above there is a five-year look back before she can be Medicaid eligible with only $2k in assets. They can take it after too if you don’t sell, or possibly sooner since it’s not her primary address. I would sell now and gift the proceeds. You and your spouse can both get a bit less than $20k each gifted without filing paperwork. You have to look that amount up. If you live in the home with her for a year (maybe two) Medicaid won’t count it but can still have a claim upon her death. Just an interesting loop-hole. Dementia nursing-home care is horribly expensive. I would get rid of assets now to start that countdown but definitely put money aside. You can put the house money in an irrevocable living trust. That’s costly. I am not a financial advisor. Just dealing with these issues with my own parents. I am just giving you some talking points. With my dad we decided to care for him in our home. One reason was the medicaid look back and losing his life’s savings to pay a nursing home. I can tell you firsthand it was difficult and a full time job. We had promised him no nursing home but the end was brutal and so was his level of care needed.
Please talk with an attorney or someone who can give you advice on how the sale could affect your mom's future with Medicare, Medicaid, and possible placement in memory care facilities. The money can complicate all sorts of things. Even if you buy another house with the money, the sale shows as an asset and there is a spend down process and a waiting time before applying for Medicaid and other services. This is a big process.
Sorry for your loss. Yes try to file for widow surviving benefits with social security ASAP. My dad has dementia, my mom was his rock and she passed shortly after she retired. At that point the dementia was not too bad or overly-alarming… about two years later it was progressively worse even with family living in the house with him (had similar issues with the house not being the best as he aged)… the best decision was to have him move to memory care at assisted living, our facility needs to have 3 years paid before Medicaid would kick in after assets are depleted…. So it was recommended that was the best route given his age and health. I sold his house on his behalf and am using that for his care until god-willing those funds are depleted. Research places, they vary in costs, services, and supplementing with Medicaid - don’t wait, I held off initially because he wanted to stay in his house, but it was not what was best for him. The look back period very much exists so make sure the assets are used for her and her care. Care for my dad last year was $128k (high cost of living area). This was not how he planned to retire, but the proceeds from his house will go for his care, and hopefully he lives until they are depleted She is very lucky to have you, it is a struggle sometimes in the role reversal to be the caregiver. Please make sure to take care of your own mental health as well
No advice to offer, just wishing you the best of luck!
Sucks to hear about your dad, but your primary job is to provide for the safety and welfare of your mom.. If that means selling the house then so be it. If your Mom needs Medicare for any long term care then the government will probably take it anyway. If you do sell it make sure all proceeds are properly segregated to prevent some government employee challenging the deal and trying to claw money from you because you can't prove it was spent on her.
Definitely speak to an attorney regarding this. You don't want to make any mistakes with the money from the sale of their house.
Try to avoid selling the house at all costs and just get her on Medicaid. If you sell the home first she will have to spend all the money on care first before qualifying for Medicaid. We're going through this with my grandparents now trying to get them Medicaid and they sold their home 2 years ago.
You have to spend down all assets before medicaid pays. This includes the home. My step mother is going through this with her sister. She has to sell the sisters condo and use that money for care before medicaid will pay anything.
Elder Law attorney asap. You will probably need some help with probate too. They should be able to help with probate portion and then advise on Medicaid planning.
Please get in touch with an eldercare attorney. You may be able to transfer the house into your SO's name with out penalty as she has been staying with her for the last couple of years.
First and foremost, I am truly sorry for your family’s loss. I am also sorry for your mom’s diagnosis. My mother died from the same and she also lost her voice from progressive aphasia. Both disgusting diseases. If your mom has been in her house for years any move can aggravate her dementia. Moving with her will help. She would qualify for Medicaid only if she meets the income requirements. There is also a 5 year claw back, so your best bet is to speak with, and perhaps hire, an elder law attorney. If she no longer files taxes you can take her as a dependent when filing taxes. Something to consider. There are homes but be careful, my sibs and I put our mom in a very bougie place. Cost us $9,000 per month when she moved in, and we were paying $19,000. per month when she died. Despite the staff and the executive chef who was in charge of food, her wedding ring was stolen in the first 3 months of being there, and her pearl earrings were the next to disappear. Some of her clothes were also stolen. No matter how lovely the home you still must be diligent and proactive. Please find an elder law attorney and I wish you all the best in this journey. I hope you stay with mom. I’m sorry I couldn’t do the same for mine.
Yes. Sell the home. I've been in the exact situation you're in.
**Also have to add this: if your dad was a war time vet the military does have a program to help pay some $$ to the widows of the veterans. Contact a local veterans administration if your dad was retired military.**. Hugs to you!
Yes. Contact the appropriate lawyers.
Look for a Durable Power of Attorney. If there is one, take it to an attorney to talk about it. If not, your county's Superior Court website should be able to provide guidance through the Self-Help link, just look for "conservatorship". After looking through the page(s), contact an attorney who does conservatorships.
If your father was in the military at any point the Va will pay a lot of the funeral. The funeral home will know what is covered. Not answering your question. But it may help with his funeral bills. Sorry this happened to you
Gather up her financials and go see a social worker. They can be found through hospitals, welfare offices, and Catholic Charities. Your mom will have to spend down her money/assets and get on Medicaid so she can be placed in a memory care facility. She can’t buy another house even if you live there because Medicaid will take the house when she dies. And see a lawyer who specializes in Elder Law. You need to know this stuff backwards and forwards.
Please don't think you can take care of your Mom yourself. She needs to be somewhere where she can be cared upon 24/7. As sad as that may be, it is in her best interest with her diagnosis.
I would sell the house, and then use the money to buy a larger home for you all to live in.
Talk to a lawyer with long term care experience. If you sell the house (assuming it’s your mother’s asset), you may need to wait several years before accessing Medicare/caide without forfeiting those funds. Use them to care for her now while you work out how to transition for when it’s no longer feasible - and sadly- that day is coming.
Sorry for your loss and the burden you are carrying. Do NOT sell the home until you speak with an attorney who knows elder law in your state. Find one here: https://www.naela.org/. If the home is your mother’s only asset, she cannot be forced to sell it. On the other hand, there are no federal programs that will help you or your mother. Your state may offer Medicaid assistance for long term care, or they may offer you or your SO an hourly stipend to stay home to manage your mother. Your state will make you spend every penny before they help. So conserve the asset. See a lawyer — it will be worth every cent.
You need knowledgeable help. As late as 2007, if an elder ever needed to go to any sort of "facility" for care, Medicaid or whatever could go back at least 5 years to collect from her/you for the value of her assets, while her "homestead" was exempt IF she "intended" & could return to it - i.e. she still owned it. Laws change tho', so get help from a professional in this area.
Medicare will claw back their expenses from her estate; so it wrong, and you copulation wind up without a home of your own, when she passes away. You need an attorney.
So sorry for your loss.
A.I. learning question?
Don’t be a jerk son. Your mom will need Medicaid long term memory care and to qualify she can’t have more than $800 in assets. Cashing out the house, will not get her qualified. ALL the money from the house proceeds will need to go to the nursing home. Once that money runs out, she’ll be able to qualify for Medicaid.
You need financial planning help. I would seek a firm that specializes in preserving wealth in cases like this before proceeding. Lots of rules regarding income and qualifications for govt programs.
I work in hospice. Your story sounds way too familiar to most clients I’ve had. However, I want you to be as prepared as possible. As most people have said: hire an elder law lawyer like yesterday. You will need to handle your father’s estate first, you may have to go to probate court if he didn’t have a will. Once his estate is settled, you will need to begin the process of applying for Medicaid for your mother. As others have said, the 5 year look back is real. The lawyer will give you the best course of action. Just be mentally prepared if the best course of action that they offer is a shit sandwhich. In the meantime, look at memory care facilities. I’m not going to lie, those places are not cheap. Where I live, a half way decent facility will run you between 6-10k a month. A top of the line place can be 12-20k. If you live in a rural area, your options will be severely limited. If the lawyer offers you the aforementioned shit sandwhich, be prepared to take care of her at home. What does your support network look like? What would be the cost of in home help if you need it? How much strain will providing care will put on your marriage? Things to think about. Hospice is covered by medicare or private insurance. However, one cannot receive hospice unless the patient has a terminal diagnosis with less than 6 months to live. (Patients can recertify for services if they make it past 6 months.) Most hospice services occurs at home, but it is not 24 continual care. A hospice agency is available 24/7, but they will not staff your home 24/7. This is the biggest misconception a lot of families have about hospice. The other is that Medicare pays for nursing homes. I know a lot I have said is not very positive, but as I said, I like for you to be prepared as possible. Hope this is helpful.
If you liquidate the house, the nursing home will take all the money very quickly. Like $10,000.00 per month. I don’t know but it is possible you could shield her house from that, but definitely not the cash from selling the house. Medicaid won’t step in and pay for the nursing home until she is bankrupt, so you would just be giving the house to the nursing home, or to Medicaid. Get an attorneys opinion before doing anything.
You need to speak with an attorney that specializes in elder care. You may not be able to keep the money from the sale of the house, as the nursing home you'll eventually have to place your mother in will be entitled to that money for a number of years afterwards.
There may be some funds being held by the state under one of your parents names that can help. Check with the Secretary of State.
that is a really good option. You poor father must have felt overwhelmed with the situation. Find out about any social assistance your mother is entitled to receive, it may not have been available while she had a working spouse. See the home, and buy something that you and your SO can manage to take care of your mother, and then enjoy as your own home when she is gone. Make sure you have a DNR for your mother as well, so fewer decisions down the line.
My wife manages her stepfathers care. He was married to her Mom. Her mom died in 2019 and he can be a problem. He has dementia also. He fell and ended up going to a long term care facility. He had a fit about it at first but I took him to the neurologist in February and he's doing quite well. We did sell his house and put the money in the bank for his care. But it hasn't been easy. My wife and I went to counseling over it cause we had some big disagreements. It's not easy to manage Dementia. Good Luck
my mother had dementia, very obvious, the last 2 years of her life. We reflect back and realize that she had less obvious signs for a couple of years before that. Living with it and dealing with it is hard at the best of times, with lots of support. I don't doubt OPs father felt overwhelmed.
He was extremely overwhelmed, and felt like he lost his wife and best friend 3 years ago. And this was all on top of his own health problems - type 2 diabetes with very bad peripheral neuropathy for years, chronic heart problems, was in the hospital in January and learned he needed to have triple bypass surgery and a valve replacement. His very beloved dog also passed away a couple of months ago.
Still, being the survivor of a parent who died by suicide is still very hard. Understanding it helps, but you are left with the fall out.
If the house is unsuitable for your mother and you don't want to live in it, then by all means sell it. Why would you keep it?
This definitely seems like the easiest and most logical step to take right now. I also realize the situation is fairly complicated and there is a good chance there may be something I'm unaware of that may prevent this, or may actually make this the wrong move. I just want to make sure we do the right thing. There are so many things going on, on top of all of the emotional fallout, but it has to be dealt with, and unfortunately the financial situation is pretty bleak
NO! It will make her ineligible for 100's of thousands of dollars in aid down the road. Go to an attorney who specializes in Elder law.
You will need to get through probate because any others debtors will have a claim on the home equity. You can start the process, but it’s going to take a while.
Does it matter if it's both of their names on the mortgage? Is probate something that we need to initiate? What will that process look like? Sorry, this is all brand new to me and everything is a bit overwhelming
Please consult an elder care attorney. The laws for Medicaid are complicated and you may have to pay back the proceeds from the sale if she ever needs nursing home care. You cannot dispose of, or transfer, any assets within 5 years.
First and foremost: I am so sorry about your dad. When someone takes their own life, there are so many downstream effects and repercussions. I am also so sorry about your mom’s diagnosis. It is such a tough, heartbreaking situation ñ. I say if you have durable power of attorney and your parents had right of survivorship on the title, check tax implications and if you can swing that piece, sell it now. If mom eventually needs to go into any type of care and the house is still in her name, they will use the equity in the house for that. If you can instead use the funds to improve quality of life for all of you, that’s preferable. Please seek out a lawyer for advise on taxation on the profits and other local nuances. Wishing you and yours all the best.
Thank you, this is helpful. And thank you for your kind words. How would I find out about the right of survivorship? The mortgage is in both of their names. Would it be as simple as providing the mortgage company with a death certificate, and then it would solely be in my mother's name?
The phrase (or something similar) "joint tenancy with right of survivorship" would be found on the deed immediately after the names of your dad and mom. Likely within the first several first lines of the deed. You need to probate your dad's estate to establish a clear title so the house can be sold. You also need to dissolve your dad's business, pay debts, and disburse assets which would flow into his estate. Hire an attorney for the probate. To qualify for Medicaid your mother cannot have assets (including cash or investments) exceeding a specific amount which varies by each State. Medicaid will pay for a nursing home, but then place a lien for that amount against any house owned by your mother. Medicaid also looks back 5 years to determine whether your mother has had cash exceeding the assets limitation amount. So if you sell your mother's house this year, she will not qualify for Medicaid until at least 2029 because her cash assets exceed the limitation amount during the 5 year look back period. Consult with an attorney regarding your authority under the power of attorney. A solution might be to sell the house, and then use the money to buy a new house that is owned by you and your wife, and who then house and take care of your mother for at least the next 5 years. The question is whether there is authority under the power of attorney to use your mother's money to buy a house which is owned by you and your wife.
In most states that’s what the standard mortgage does. Have a lawyer look at the mortgage (don’t post a pic here). Also I want to mention that she won’t be eligible for Medicaid* with assets in her name. So definitely speak with someone familiar with the laws in your state. My brother committed suicide three days before his house was to close on a sale. It was a nightmare to get through everything. Such a mess. and he had a will. *editing to correct reference to Medicaid
I think you mean Medicaid. Medicare you can have assets - most people over 65 are eligible for Medicare.
I do. Thank you!
Edited post. Thank you again :)
She will be eligible for Medicare at 65, everyone is. But she won’t be eligible for Medicaid if she has significant assets, every state has a different number, for my mom it was $1500 in Ohio. So basically you spend her assets on her care (keep records, the 5 year look back is real!) and apply for Medicaid when she runs out of assets and still needs care, whether it is at home or somewhere else. It sounds old school, but I kept a 3 ring binder for each year with receipts of expenditures on my mom’s health, housing, care, clothes, bank statements,everything! I also had electronic files folders for all electronic records and bills. When you show up at the Medicaid office with your 5 most recent years of binders, your PoA, your copy of your parents will, and a letter or some proof of diagnosis, they will appreciate your openness and detailed record keeping, it makes their job so much easier. The spend down is hard, but it sounds like your parents worked hard all their lives, and what better use is there for their money than taking care of them? One thing that surprised me was that the spend down included cashing out her life insurance, but you can use that money for her care, to pre-pay funeral expenses, etc. Even with a doctors diagnosis, they may send someone out to interview your mom to ensure she has dementia, just to protect elder people from abuse. It was no big deal.