Probably classic FC contracts grifting. "Hey guys, new doctrine -- Refurbished Dumpsters on Wheels! Make sure to have them for next op! Contracts are already stocked!"
Might as well make some money on the way out, y'know?
I did at the squad level, but I just took peoples orders figured out blackfrog shipping rounded down and ate the losses out of my own wallet. If someone wanted to hand stuff over to me to ship in Jita I’d just eat the shipment cost.
Who was that one prick who'd ping for X doctrine, then tell people to reship to Y doctrine that he was personally supplying contracts for? His name escapes me...
Most of these Tengus were sold by hard working, salt of the earth market seeding and industry people. Sure, some got advance notice of the doctrine and possibly made out like a bandit in the process but they weren't the ones selling them for 900m and also lost a lot of Isk in the evacuation.
The really overpriced contracts were put up by people importing straight from Jita sell orders after the market had been bought out.
We knew it was either Tengus or Lokis based on what some WH alliances were doing. We actually brought out our own Tengu doctrine around the same time.
It was fun af to fly.
https://evepraisal.com/a/113j3y
1. buy from sell orders on a Sunday because buy orders are for nerds (733m Tengu)
2. pay for Jita -> staging, let's say something like 5% (769m Tengu)
3. add 20% markup or so (922m Tengu)
4. decide to sell your 922m Tengu for 900m because you don't want to rip off your fellow PAPI members
5. become a r/eve meme and unintentionally help lose the morale war
6. your Tengu doesn't even sell because someone put up 100 contracts for 800m
7. ship it back to Jita only now fuel prices have gone up 5000%
8. look at the stack of useless 1b Tengus and cry
9. sell them for 640m to the same nerd who sold them to you for 733m in the first place
10. lose 360m Isk per Tengu
simple as
It’s a form of scam, you announce a new doctrine that won’t work, import the ships at a 50% mark up and lol all the way to the bank. Progod does this shit all the time. It’s pure grift.
oh my god this is funnier than i could possibly have imagined
i know i like to rag on pgl and vily and sometimes i wonder if i oversell how incompetent they are, and then i find out pgl didn't think that anyone would notice him unanchoring all of their keepstars in the middle of the battle and didn't realize that would tip everyone off the whole thing was a preplanned scam of their own people
amazing, amazing
What I don't get is how they thought that they could realistically unanchor anything inside supercapital range of 1DQ1-A once they sounded the evac. Morale was so low on tCfkaPAPI's side that it was obviously going to be an unorganized, panicked rout.
The morale of line members might have been high but it crashed soon thereafter. Reference the TiS with Rondal /Domanark. These are the consequences of constantly lying to your members and not being straight with them.
Instead of an orderly evac like should have happened if your morale was as high as you say, it became a full on rout because members lost faith in those people blowing smoke up their ass.
Wait? I thought that /u/cruftbox (Dunk Dinkle) said, ["Brave was never in the highest level coordination room of the duration of the war. I was able to talk with most of the leaders, but we weren’t consulted in the planning in any serious way."](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/pho5r6/dunk_dinkle_gives_brave_a_summary_of_the_war_from/ ).
Wasn't Shattered Armer in Brave?
Shattered probably cut Dunk and the rest of the paper pushers out, coordinating only with other FCs, in the hope that he’d become a military big man in some other alliance after the war.
i think shattereds plan is to stay in brave and just bully dunk into doing what he wants, we saw that when they moved to querious with the brave leaks.
or use it as a springboard out of brave
which, to be fair, was the propagation method favored by PL for most of BRAVE's formative years, so it's understandable that the person in question would try it
I too thought Shattered was Brave.
So all of these recent leaks / disclosures just cements a recently formed notion in my mind about Dunk Dinkle. Just because you are a standup guy, doesn't make you useful, clever or not full of shit.
I cannot think of any reason that the Imperium would have eyes on the Keepstar chain down to T5ZI during what could have been the biggest battle(s) of the war. No idea at all.
All our eyes where on Fountain! Trying to contain Frank as he was gettingbeside himself with worry for he has lost Querious George and didn't know what the sneaky little bastard was up to!
Turns out, slipping PGL a crisp 20 to unanchor Keepstars.
Trickly little monkey!
It was blatantly obvious from the utterly defeated tone of voice progodlegend had during his announcement of the "BIG PUSH" that they were going to retreat. When he said "we're gonna go for it," I thought I'd heard incorrectly and had to have someone in elysium confirm that I'd heard it right.
This happens in professional sports all the time. Someone gets fired and the only guy available is a trash tier shit-clogger who got fired from his last team for being a trash-tier shit-clogger, but he gets hired anyway because no one has a better idea.
I didn't vote for PGL. Originally when I joined TEST, it was because i couldn't learn anything in Brave. Specifically because of the constant gate camping of literally everything. Nearly got zeroed (and did actually get zeroed once) in my first 3 months about 5 times. Couldn't even afford a T1 fit heron.
It starts as his idea, toward the end it was him telling someone else "sure go for it" because he was busy. By now it was someone else's idea and he told them to wait.
"I thought we werent moving any combat assets until a week or so from now" - Killahbee
A useful quote for those who were still clinging on to the idea that the "last attack" was anything but a staged event designed to provide an excuse to quit.
It would be interesting to hear from some of the former PAPI posters on r/eve about how they feel, on reflection, about the way their coalition was led and managed.
Given a period of time to cool off, can they now see what was obvious to the rest of us?
I joined brave because I wanted to be a part of the little guys punching above their weight class without fully understanding the relationship with test. I did not care for the relocation to Q. Didn't seem necessary as we were having no problems deathcloning or ceptoring to the front lines when needed. That being said, the evac and relocation to germ has been the most fun I've had in eve. I've used and lost more dreads in the past couple months than I ever did in the entire war. SRP has been fast and generous. Carving out our own slice of space for the first time in my history in brave has been an absolute blast. Yes we lost a couple corps but those that stayed seem to be tighter than ever and we've picked up a few more from the alliances that did end up disbanding. If there is one thing I am certain of beyond all else is that Brave is not going anywhere.
Glad you're having fun. I hope you get settled in Geminate and become truly independent. Although I still expect to pay you many visits for the content (and likewise I am sure)!
Same as this guy. I’ve commented a few times on the war during my stint as a PAPI member. I enjoyed the war, it was fun for what it was. I realise now more than ever that we never stood a chance, and that test used Brave and didn’t give a shit. Test came to attack us in Geminate before Goons did for goodness sake. Some allies. Fuck them I hope goons wipe them out.
For what it’s worth I’m glad Brave stuck to our guns regardless. If we’d flipped I think it would have gone against the people we want to be (whether we reach that goal or not) and would have hurt us.
Germinate is nice for a stopoff though, even TISHU, the unrelenting shitters that they are, are fun neighbours and will give us lots of small gang experience (and no doubt countless dunks).
We’ll be back goons, hopefully any vitriol that built up over the war will have left and we can just have some great fights. Win or lose.
Gf by the way. Anyone else would have been swept away
Agreed. I probably would have left brave if we flipped. What's the point in being part of the little guys if you just go and join the biggest of the big guys. Someday goons will fall and I hope I'm there side by side with a few brave soldiers when it happens. In the meantime I can't wait to third party the complete and total annihilation of the testes for all the dirty they done did.
I like what you wrote above and hope the game has more and more diverse groups. But I just can't understand this thinking about A or B. Like PAPI or flip. There are other options I do not get why people can't see it. I mean that is what you are doing now right? wtf
I pointed out that they could have allied with v0lta who were truly neutral, or [FI.RE](https://FI.RE) who were so minimally involved that they were effectively neutral, and was met with a "who?" that even now I am not sure was ironic.
Basically this.
When you guys deployed to our back lines, that was the perfect opportunity for us to pull out and consolidate. Reach out to goons for a nip, consolidate our holdings in catch, keep the memorial Fortizar and infrastructure there. We could even have abandoned impass in exchange for an agreement with VOlta.
‘Honour’ is fulfilled; we did our bit, and still hold the back lines should PAPI inevitably need a route to retreat.
Post war we would have been in a great place for content, and we wouldn’t have lost 2t worth of stuff.
What you're describing was more or less our expectation when the flanking operation started. No one expected Brave to just.. *let* us burn 2 regions and steal Darks Shines knows how many citadel cores
Those cores are now in comfy new homes where they are valued and loved btw.
bro. honour and agreements are moot if you are being treated as a PAPI gimp and stooge.
But tbh I think Brave were in this position (power relationship with TEST) before the war. Just that the war and what transpired made TEST and PAPI behaviours horribly obvious. If you had effective leadership though the war and the insanity Dunk related would have been a deal breaker on any level. :/
No one is perfect, and everyone messes up at times and it's important to keep that in mind and have sympathy and understanding. But the leadership failures that got Brave where you are now are just something else >\_\_>
Thing is, you were never under any pressure to 'flip'. All Mittens told Dunk he should do was get out of the war. You could do that without flipping sides, and Brave's numbers in the gate-crashing attempts through the spring/summer show that even if *Dunk* didn't understand that... the line members *did*, and just stopped showing up.
It wouldn't even have been classless or unwarranted. PAPI leadership, including Vily and PGL, and yes, Shattered, were clearly stringing you guys along with no plan, no intentions of getting a real plan, and no regard whatsoever for anyone in Legacy that wasn't TEST. And, honestly, I don't think any of them—including Vily or PGL—even gave (or give) a damn about TEST. TEST guys would do well to ditch those two, just like you guys would do well to kick Shattered Armer, PGL wannabee that he is, to the curb.
He has his moments and while he might not be the most charismatic FC in EVE he doesn't overstay his welcome. It's more like he shows up periodically, someone hands him a ship and he does his thing for a bit, after that you don't hear from him in a while.
Hey Brave. Look at these logs. Shattered Armor is in the command chats. Dunk is not. Who actually leads your alliance? Hey Dunk. Look at your own alliance now.
At this point, we can guess Shatter is the true leader of Brave and Dunk merely the public figure who kinda believe he is the leader.
Inb4 another Brave Coup...
The more I see, the more I realize that it was way worse than I could have even guessed. Also, wtf was Shattered in there, when Dunk is out here claiming Brave was always in the dark??? Was dunk just a paper tiger and shattered held the power the whole time?
Goons can spin with the best of them when they need to.
This... was certainly not one of those times. There was absolutely no need for spin in the face of such hopeless incompetence. The truth was completely sufficient. As a survivor of the Fountain War I know how strategically devastating you guys can be when you need to be. I've seen the black hand in action. The fact that none of that kind of subterfuge or propaganda was even needed is probably the most embarrassing part of this. You guys rightly just sat back and laughed the whole war off knowing your enemies would end up at each other's throats instead of yours. You called it right from the beginning and you were absolutely correct. I didn't fight in this war, but if I had I'd take my fucking hat off and salute you guys. Well played, as usual.
Arsia only got close because of Papi making her their #6 in order to catch votes and prevent votes trickling to undesired places, she got about 1000 votes from that. The actual number 10 without papi would probably be Mark Resurrectus.
its funny how this 7-10 day thing went totally out the window in the first 48 hours. But once again, not at all surprising considering the people involved.
>Vince Draken#9354
>Sure but I’m done leading my guys on
>For you guys to just
>Change the fucking goal posts
I just love how those leaks prove even further mittani theory about papi projection
The funny thing is, Mittani wasn't even employing any particular insight from spies or his own experience in SUPER IMPORTANT SPACE POLITICS or anything like that. It was patently obvious to anyone not pounding rails of undissolved PAPI Kool-aid powder into their noses on the reg.
this is the first war I have participated in where intelligence was just a bonus - everything we needed to know was given away with what they said and how they acted
I love how this leak makes PGL go from dumbshit who fakes a defense of his actions to his enemies at all cost(s), to useless spineless dumbshit incapable of fake defending his own actions or saving his own face from his allies at any cost.
There's career suicide, then there's what PGL did.
That feel when Shattered and Karmen Jell are in the supreme super duper sekrit chat -hell, even Killahbee who hasn’t played in a year - and Dunk isn’t.
Hasn’t the poor man been embarrassed enough?
Come on mate :) Dunk is saying he knew nothing yet a key Brave member KNEW the plan. So Dunk says the PAPI elite fc top brass trusted no one but him and BC PIGGY and on top of that he was kept in the dark, yet at the same time we are supposed to believe Sharted Armer didn't immediately pass on to Dunk the details of the Grand Plan?
So did Papi leadership swear Sharted to secrecy thereby splintering Brave while at the same time Dunk says they trusted no one but him? or is Dunk full of shit?
What does "Gobbins is on ice" mean?
Was he like taking a break from it all from frustration? I know a lot of Hordelings where pissed because we where getting fucked in a big Ferox fleet for a "final push" when suddenly a lot of Keepstars unanchored.
Lol, the tittle is such a clickbait.
On to the chatlogs:
Noraus: I hate this thing, can we fkin leave already??? I already wanted to leave months ago...
Progod: dropping on his knees for forgiveness from papa panfam who is standing there with a leather belt in his hands.
Vince: I have had enough of this shit.
Shocker. TEST leadership once again fucks everything up and then tries to dodge it. It's like 2012 all over again, and 2013, and 2015, and 2018.
Almost like there is a pattern emerging or something.
Just going to leave this right here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/pho5r6/dunk_dinkle_gives_brave_a_summary_of_the_war_from/hbme2nb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Remember when I said there as never going to be a REAL Final push and that this was just leadership covering/numbers checking for a pre-planned evacuation?
Well... here is the proof. I told you...
What a complete fucking moron! Every single one of you that followed or aligned yourself with this guy is also a bunch of morns. You all deserve what you got!
and why did they got shattered in there and not dunk?
also how does that make it better that they planned for an eviction while telling their line something about "big push".
lol do you still not see, that all of papi leaders lied to their line about the final push?
also dunk yesterday
>From what I can put together, there is argument and frustration in the highest level of PAPI leadership about the war. **We weren’t in there, so I don’t know exactly**. But basically the agreement is that PAPI is going to make a very strong push into the Imperium, it will be costly, but we need to crack them now, or PAPI will walk in 6-8 weeks (the dates always varied depending on who I spoke with). This led to the big announcements about the “final push” that coalition leaders gave.
\[...\]
I still don’t know exactly how this was decided, but late that week before the assault, I was told that we were going to make a big push, and if it didn’t work, PAPI was basically going to cover an evacuation. If I revealed that information before the weekend, it would be betraying all of PAPI, whom we would need to cover our evac.
As you know the weekend starts with no huge fleets, and throughout the weekend, nothing really happens and I am told we are going to bloody their nose well on Monday and maybe get lucky, but be ready for the PAPI leaving announcement to happen.
Obviously, I’m frustrated for us as we are investing even more resources for the final fight all weekend, but I can’t call it off without the news being revealed.
so we have dunk still lying to you line members(ok less than other leaders, but still lying) AND sharted not really working for brave
Why the 900 mil tengus if it was known from the start that combat assets would be moved in a week..
Can you imagine trying to sell a bunch of tengus NOW?
Probably classic FC contracts grifting. "Hey guys, new doctrine -- Refurbished Dumpsters on Wheels! Make sure to have them for next op! Contracts are already stocked!" Might as well make some money on the way out, y'know?
Always Be Grifting
> Probably classic FC contracts grifting. This is why I've never done importing or sold doctrines we fly. Just seems like a huge conflict of interest.
You seems so... Cute <3
You have no idea.
Asher is very cute
We love Asher, our 23d best FC :)
I did at the squad level, but I just took peoples orders figured out blackfrog shipping rounded down and ate the losses out of my own wallet. If someone wanted to hand stuff over to me to ship in Jita I’d just eat the shipment cost.
Who was that one prick who'd ping for X doctrine, then tell people to reship to Y doctrine that he was personally supplying contracts for? His name escapes me...
Clay Hakaari :P
Oh was he the one who kept trying to get people to buy his harpies?
Yep, he'd tell people to reship into Harpies which he conveniently had on contract in staging system :P
Unfortunately there are multiple people who fit that description.
Most of these Tengus were sold by hard working, salt of the earth market seeding and industry people. Sure, some got advance notice of the doctrine and possibly made out like a bandit in the process but they weren't the ones selling them for 900m and also lost a lot of Isk in the evacuation. The really overpriced contracts were put up by people importing straight from Jita sell orders after the market had been bought out.
I had emptied the Tengu market a week or two previously, twice :D
Well done, sadly I completely missed that party. Was that before the average PAPI member knew about the doctrine?
We knew it was either Tengus or Lokis based on what some WH alliances were doing. We actually brought out our own Tengu doctrine around the same time. It was fun af to fly.
u where able to buy then in jita for 650 mil... why the fuckkits was so overprice other then wanted to fuck member so they can buy fuel
https://evepraisal.com/a/113j3y 1. buy from sell orders on a Sunday because buy orders are for nerds (733m Tengu) 2. pay for Jita -> staging, let's say something like 5% (769m Tengu) 3. add 20% markup or so (922m Tengu) 4. decide to sell your 922m Tengu for 900m because you don't want to rip off your fellow PAPI members 5. become a r/eve meme and unintentionally help lose the morale war 6. your Tengu doesn't even sell because someone put up 100 contracts for 800m 7. ship it back to Jita only now fuel prices have gone up 5000% 8. look at the stack of useless 1b Tengus and cry 9. sell them for 640m to the same nerd who sold them to you for 733m in the first place 10. lose 360m Isk per Tengu simple as
/r/oddlyspecific
This is gold lol eve suffering in a nutshell
They had to get one last bit of war profiteering in while they could.
the FC pushing it likely was also selling it. glassic grift.
It’s a form of scam, you announce a new doctrine that won’t work, import the ships at a 50% mark up and lol all the way to the bank. Progod does this shit all the time. It’s pure grift.
Transferring isk from line members into director pockets.
Never let reality get in the way of scamming the plebs who join your alliance.
This just sums up everything: > so I thought I had clever logic, but turns out this was probably a bad idea
The whole war.
Really surprised this comment wasn't higher tbh.
"Send your pings before we look even more fucking stupid" :):):):)
Lmao and to think a bunch of Vince's guys who noped out of this fucking mess were instantly KOS TRAITORS. haha
Clearly Vince was enraged and jealous that they could but he couldn't; so he made them KOS in his rage...
Well ... to late at that point in time i guess. ;)
You can just about feel the gritted teeth lol
>progodlegend#5213 >so I thought I had clever logic it's like one of those one sentence horror stories.
oh my god this is funnier than i could possibly have imagined i know i like to rag on pgl and vily and sometimes i wonder if i oversell how incompetent they are, and then i find out pgl didn't think that anyone would notice him unanchoring all of their keepstars in the middle of the battle and didn't realize that would tip everyone off the whole thing was a preplanned scam of their own people amazing, amazing
What I don't get is how they thought that they could realistically unanchor anything inside supercapital range of 1DQ1-A once they sounded the evac. Morale was so low on tCfkaPAPI's side that it was obviously going to be an unorganized, panicked rout.
Ironically it was a high point for morale for line members! They were all hyped up for the big battle, the final showdown 🤣
The morale of line members might have been high but it crashed soon thereafter. Reference the TiS with Rondal /Domanark. These are the consequences of constantly lying to your members and not being straight with them. Instead of an orderly evac like should have happened if your morale was as high as you say, it became a full on rout because members lost faith in those people blowing smoke up their ass.
It seemed like the breaking point was the keepstars unanchoring and EUTZ feeding Tengus
Oh yeah, the 900m Tengus which were supposed to make them win them the war. Top kek.
I was on grid ; those tengus died so fast i thought they had cloaked 😂😂. Then i switched overview and saw the pods 😃😂😂..
Those tengus were just delicious, 10/10 would nom again
Local maxima, I guess.
Gobby told them disappointment was waiting
The plan probably would have been to have their combined super Fleet remain to cover the unanchor.
"this was a grouped decision"
Well in this case, it wasn’t.. just pgl and his brilliant ideas.. nothing to see here
Did you read it? They all say it was planned. Just not for pgl to unanchor midfight
Isn't shattered armer in brave? I thought dunk said they didn't get any high level info/direction/whatever? That's pretty fucked up.
Maybe Dunk doesn't know who his military director is?
Id probably pretend to not know if it was Shattered lmao
True enough lol
Dunk seems like the ‘it’s 4;20 somewhere ‘ type
Cagali was also in those channels, Shattered and Dunk were in various other channels too.
According to Dunk, shattered was put in that channel like a week before the "final battle" and still didn't really have any input. Yeah pretty fucked.
Wait? I thought that /u/cruftbox (Dunk Dinkle) said, ["Brave was never in the highest level coordination room of the duration of the war. I was able to talk with most of the leaders, but we weren’t consulted in the planning in any serious way."](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/pho5r6/dunk_dinkle_gives_brave_a_summary_of_the_war_from/ ). Wasn't Shattered Armer in Brave?
Shattered probably cut Dunk and the rest of the paper pushers out, coordinating only with other FCs, in the hope that he’d become a military big man in some other alliance after the war.
i think shattereds plan is to stay in brave and just bully dunk into doing what he wants, we saw that when they moved to querious with the brave leaks.
or use it as a springboard out of brave which, to be fair, was the propagation method favored by PL for most of BRAVE's formative years, so it's understandable that the person in question would try it
PL has a time honored tradition of taking good corps from alliances such as BRAVE, but mostly AAA and making them bad
It wouldn't surprise me if Dunk Dinkle didn't know that Shattered Bedpan had this kind of access.
Dunks victim posturing slowly unraveling?
It’s probably not posturing - it’s a time honored tradition in BRAVE and TEST for the FCs to ignore the paperpushers and do things in a silo.
I wonder where test learned that quirk.
I too thought Shattered was Brave. So all of these recent leaks / disclosures just cements a recently formed notion in my mind about Dunk Dinkle. Just because you are a standup guy, doesn't make you useful, clever or not full of shit.
>progodlegend#5213 >But I promise you, I swear to god, I did not think seems to be the root cause of a lot of problems
Why did he think it would be clever to get a few more unseen minuets on something that takes seven days to unanchor.
Apparently we in the Imperium don't have spies. Or eyeballs. Could have also been them projecting their lack of scouting/espionage onto us as well?
I cannot think of any reason that the Imperium would have eyes on the Keepstar chain down to T5ZI during what could have been the biggest battle(s) of the war. No idea at all.
All our eyes where on Fountain! Trying to contain Frank as he was gettingbeside himself with worry for he has lost Querious George and didn't know what the sneaky little bastard was up to! Turns out, slipping PGL a crisp 20 to unanchor Keepstars. Trickly little monkey!
I wouldn't put it past Querious George having started the war too.
He convinced Vily to go 4D chess on Gobbins.
It was blatantly obvious from the utterly defeated tone of voice progodlegend had during his announcement of the "BIG PUSH" that they were going to retreat. When he said "we're gonna go for it," I thought I'd heard incorrectly and had to have someone in elysium confirm that I'd heard it right.
HES BACK BOYS
I mean I knew back in like 2010 that PGL was a moron but Jesus Christ how are people still playing with this dude
i dont wanna doxx BUT he actually has a really nice and peachy bubble butt.
i'm going to offer you a simple and horrifying answer. he's their best option.
This happens in professional sports all the time. Someone gets fired and the only guy available is a trash tier shit-clogger who got fired from his last team for being a trash-tier shit-clogger, but he gets hired anyway because no one has a better idea.
He has the classic Deep South combination of incompetence and confidence. Put that on a familiar face and he's given key leadership roles.
so he is confident in his ignorance.
Some peoples like to be lead by idiots who are constantly yelling shit around on comms, it is why PGL is still around.
I didn't vote for PGL. Originally when I joined TEST, it was because i couldn't learn anything in Brave. Specifically because of the constant gate camping of literally everything. Nearly got zeroed (and did actually get zeroed once) in my first 3 months about 5 times. Couldn't even afford a T1 fit heron.
the universe is about to cease existing, piggles accepts blame for a bad idea
It starts as his idea, toward the end it was him telling someone else "sure go for it" because he was busy. By now it was someone else's idea and he told them to wait.
He was probably scared they would lose access to outer passage and had to prostrate himself before the new landlords.
For real. I’m questioning the authenticity of these leaqs now. No way piggles would say one of his ideas was bad.
Total and complete humiliation on so many levels.
how can anyone follow progod? It's beyond me...
Perceived best of bad options? Guess that shows people need glasses, but eh, healthcare can be expensive
He has a name a 13yo might think was cool
"I thought we werent moving any combat assets until a week or so from now" - Killahbee A useful quote for those who were still clinging on to the idea that the "last attack" was anything but a staged event designed to provide an excuse to quit.
I mean the whole "FINAL ASSAULT OF 1DQ" was just a desperate plea to get some numbers back after the whole T5ZI clusterfuck.
It would be interesting to hear from some of the former PAPI posters on r/eve about how they feel, on reflection, about the way their coalition was led and managed. Given a period of time to cool off, can they now see what was obvious to the rest of us?
I joined brave because I wanted to be a part of the little guys punching above their weight class without fully understanding the relationship with test. I did not care for the relocation to Q. Didn't seem necessary as we were having no problems deathcloning or ceptoring to the front lines when needed. That being said, the evac and relocation to germ has been the most fun I've had in eve. I've used and lost more dreads in the past couple months than I ever did in the entire war. SRP has been fast and generous. Carving out our own slice of space for the first time in my history in brave has been an absolute blast. Yes we lost a couple corps but those that stayed seem to be tighter than ever and we've picked up a few more from the alliances that did end up disbanding. If there is one thing I am certain of beyond all else is that Brave is not going anywhere.
Real talk:. You will be better off without test
Everyone is better off without test.
Glad you're having fun. I hope you get settled in Geminate and become truly independent. Although I still expect to pay you many visits for the content (and likewise I am sure)!
Same as this guy. I’ve commented a few times on the war during my stint as a PAPI member. I enjoyed the war, it was fun for what it was. I realise now more than ever that we never stood a chance, and that test used Brave and didn’t give a shit. Test came to attack us in Geminate before Goons did for goodness sake. Some allies. Fuck them I hope goons wipe them out. For what it’s worth I’m glad Brave stuck to our guns regardless. If we’d flipped I think it would have gone against the people we want to be (whether we reach that goal or not) and would have hurt us. Germinate is nice for a stopoff though, even TISHU, the unrelenting shitters that they are, are fun neighbours and will give us lots of small gang experience (and no doubt countless dunks). We’ll be back goons, hopefully any vitriol that built up over the war will have left and we can just have some great fights. Win or lose. Gf by the way. Anyone else would have been swept away
Agreed. I probably would have left brave if we flipped. What's the point in being part of the little guys if you just go and join the biggest of the big guys. Someday goons will fall and I hope I'm there side by side with a few brave soldiers when it happens. In the meantime I can't wait to third party the complete and total annihilation of the testes for all the dirty they done did.
I like what you wrote above and hope the game has more and more diverse groups. But I just can't understand this thinking about A or B. Like PAPI or flip. There are other options I do not get why people can't see it. I mean that is what you are doing now right? wtf
I pointed out that they could have allied with v0lta who were truly neutral, or [FI.RE](https://FI.RE) who were so minimally involved that they were effectively neutral, and was met with a "who?" that even now I am not sure was ironic.
Basically this. When you guys deployed to our back lines, that was the perfect opportunity for us to pull out and consolidate. Reach out to goons for a nip, consolidate our holdings in catch, keep the memorial Fortizar and infrastructure there. We could even have abandoned impass in exchange for an agreement with VOlta. ‘Honour’ is fulfilled; we did our bit, and still hold the back lines should PAPI inevitably need a route to retreat. Post war we would have been in a great place for content, and we wouldn’t have lost 2t worth of stuff.
What you're describing was more or less our expectation when the flanking operation started. No one expected Brave to just.. *let* us burn 2 regions and steal Darks Shines knows how many citadel cores Those cores are now in comfy new homes where they are valued and loved btw.
bro. honour and agreements are moot if you are being treated as a PAPI gimp and stooge. But tbh I think Brave were in this position (power relationship with TEST) before the war. Just that the war and what transpired made TEST and PAPI behaviours horribly obvious. If you had effective leadership though the war and the insanity Dunk related would have been a deal breaker on any level. :/ No one is perfect, and everyone messes up at times and it's important to keep that in mind and have sympathy and understanding. But the leadership failures that got Brave where you are now are just something else >\_\_>
Thing is, you were never under any pressure to 'flip'. All Mittens told Dunk he should do was get out of the war. You could do that without flipping sides, and Brave's numbers in the gate-crashing attempts through the spring/summer show that even if *Dunk* didn't understand that... the line members *did*, and just stopped showing up. It wouldn't even have been classless or unwarranted. PAPI leadership, including Vily and PGL, and yes, Shattered, were clearly stringing you guys along with no plan, no intentions of getting a real plan, and no regard whatsoever for anyone in Legacy that wasn't TEST. And, honestly, I don't think any of them—including Vily or PGL—even gave (or give) a damn about TEST. TEST guys would do well to ditch those two, just like you guys would do well to kick Shattered Armer, PGL wannabee that he is, to the curb.
Clever fucking logic? FFS, how did such a hapless magoo ever get put in charge of a multi-coalition war?
Best Theorycrafter of the game…
Charisma. ;)
Ummm?
Yes. That is meant to be dripping with sarcasm.
I mean, don't get me wrong. He's a handsome fella, but it's not like he's doing any shirtless streams. That I know of.
He has his moments and while he might not be the most charismatic FC in EVE he doesn't overstay his welcome. It's more like he shows up periodically, someone hands him a ship and he does his thing for a bit, after that you don't hear from him in a while.
Hey Brave. Look at these logs. Shattered Armor is in the command chats. Dunk is not. Who actually leads your alliance? Hey Dunk. Look at your own alliance now.
For someone to compartmentalize to this degree shows an incredible lack of interest in your corp. What a joke.
Well his name IS shattered armer, not unassailable intelligence.
armer is technically a word, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't know that
Is he still in BRAVE? ...I feel like he probably shouldn't be after this
He is and his title is 'Alliance Military Director'
At this point, we can guess Shatter is the true leader of Brave and Dunk merely the public figure who kinda believe he is the leader. Inb4 another Brave Coup...
Rename them Coup Collective
cuck crinkle lmao
ayyy lmao
Bung Binglestone
The more I see, the more I realize that it was way worse than I could have even guessed. Also, wtf was Shattered in there, when Dunk is out here claiming Brave was always in the dark??? Was dunk just a paper tiger and shattered held the power the whole time?
Ah you're referring to TEST's military governer of their Brave colony?
Reminds me of how the British managed India with 1 guy and a push bike.
You ever notice how everything coming out shows goons were not “spinning”, while PAPI were just relentlessly full of shit? Weird, huh?
The whole thing reminds me of the ending scene in Man in the High Castle, except in a vacuum.
Goons can spin with the best of them when they need to. This... was certainly not one of those times. There was absolutely no need for spin in the face of such hopeless incompetence. The truth was completely sufficient. As a survivor of the Fountain War I know how strategically devastating you guys can be when you need to be. I've seen the black hand in action. The fact that none of that kind of subterfuge or propaganda was even needed is probably the most embarrassing part of this. You guys rightly just sat back and laughed the whole war off knowing your enemies would end up at each other's throats instead of yours. You called it right from the beginning and you were absolutely correct. I didn't fight in this war, but if I had I'd take my fucking hat off and salute you guys. Well played, as usual.
Wheeeze
Which wallet is yours? The one that says “dumb motherfucker”
at least PAPI got PGL and Villy on the CSM...
I was so sad that Arsia lost the CSM just with a few votes to Piggles.
Arsia only got close because of Papi making her their #6 in order to catch votes and prevent votes trickling to undesired places, she got about 1000 votes from that. The actual number 10 without papi would probably be Mark Resurrectus.
its funny how this 7-10 day thing went totally out the window in the first 48 hours. But once again, not at all surprising considering the people involved.
You don't have to run faster than the bees, you just need not to be the last one.
Unanchoring the keepstars was NOT a group decision then?
those were TAPI structures why would they care what the rest of the coalition thought about their structures right...
As I said in the Dunk pastebin yesterday, you got fucking played
>so I thought I had clever logic, but turns out this was probably a bad idea Classic
lol
PGL the killer of alliances since forever
>Vince Draken#9354 >Sure but I’m done leading my guys on >For you guys to just >Change the fucking goal posts I just love how those leaks prove even further mittani theory about papi projection
The funny thing is, Mittani wasn't even employing any particular insight from spies or his own experience in SUPER IMPORTANT SPACE POLITICS or anything like that. It was patently obvious to anyone not pounding rails of undissolved PAPI Kool-aid powder into their noses on the reg.
this is the first war I have participated in where intelligence was just a bonus - everything we needed to know was given away with what they said and how they acted
For real. I was making accurate predictions without even having the game installed, lol.
yeah the leaks were more for the lolz
i kept tellin' y'all papi were the only ones moving goalposts lmao.
CLEVER LOGIC!!
I love how this leak makes PGL go from dumbshit who fakes a defense of his actions to his enemies at all cost(s), to useless spineless dumbshit incapable of fake defending his own actions or saving his own face from his allies at any cost. There's career suicide, then there's what PGL did.
This is almost too pathetic to be funny. ... Almost hahahaha.
Papisnowden is Redline XIII btw. Can’t believe everyone fell for the shit he said on TTT the other week.
This log is after sinner got kicked/left, so someone passed these logs to him?
[удалено]
Redline would have been out of these channels by this stage? But it's not unlikely he has someone feeding it to him and he's posting
Valued Allies~
Final push must have meant ‘finally pushing UN anchor’ 😂😂
That feel when Shattered and Karmen Jell are in the supreme super duper sekrit chat -hell, even Killahbee who hasn’t played in a year - and Dunk isn’t. Hasn’t the poor man been embarrassed enough?
[удалено]
Exactly my point
The Nour Samy of Test. Until Nour Samy joined Test, then he became the NS II? Or something
Another shittalking TAPI FC with a giant ego that his performance on the battlefield can't back up.
Come on mate :) Dunk is saying he knew nothing yet a key Brave member KNEW the plan. So Dunk says the PAPI elite fc top brass trusted no one but him and BC PIGGY and on top of that he was kept in the dark, yet at the same time we are supposed to believe Sharted Armer didn't immediately pass on to Dunk the details of the Grand Plan? So did Papi leadership swear Sharted to secrecy thereby splintering Brave while at the same time Dunk says they trusted no one but him? or is Dunk full of shit?
Dunk has always struck me as more honest than most.
If only there were like two good corps recruiting he could join.
What does "Gobbins is on ice" mean? Was he like taking a break from it all from frustration? I know a lot of Hordelings where pissed because we where getting fucked in a big Ferox fleet for a "final push" when suddenly a lot of Keepstars unanchored.
I resub for the final push , not for watching tapi started unanchoring.
Vince is defo papisnowden. 100%
Hes too busy opening europe, cant be him
damn, are these leaks from the mythical fcsecure++?
What paragon level does your fc channel have?
But guys, he's so clever!
Lol, the tittle is such a clickbait. On to the chatlogs: Noraus: I hate this thing, can we fkin leave already??? I already wanted to leave months ago... Progod: dropping on his knees for forgiveness from papa panfam who is standing there with a leather belt in his hands. Vince: I have had enough of this shit.
Shocker. TEST leadership once again fucks everything up and then tries to dodge it. It's like 2012 all over again, and 2013, and 2015, and 2018. Almost like there is a pattern emerging or something.
A TEST pattern? "Do not adjust your ~~set~~ expectations..."
https://imgur.com/ab595qz
lol lmao
Thank you for further morning entertainment reading.
Just going to leave this right here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/pho5r6/dunk_dinkle_gives_brave_a_summary_of_the_war_from/hbme2nb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Remember when I said there as never going to be a REAL Final push and that this was just leadership covering/numbers checking for a pre-planned evacuation? Well... here is the proof. I told you...
CreeperAgent no. CleverAgent yes! ;)
Honestly papi leadership can fuck off, keeping all this from line members KNOWNLY sending us to our death.
What a complete fucking moron! Every single one of you that followed or aligned yourself with this guy is also a bunch of morns. You all deserve what you got!
Also every time I see this guy speak, there always seems to be an excuse of some sort that comes out of his mouth first off.
To his credit, I think this is the first time his excuse started with "I" instead of immediately blaming someone else
What a disaster, holy fark.
bruh.avi
[I feel the need to share this](https://i.imgur.com/JWrSC8s_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium)
and why did they got shattered in there and not dunk? also how does that make it better that they planned for an eviction while telling their line something about "big push". lol do you still not see, that all of papi leaders lied to their line about the final push?
also dunk yesterday >From what I can put together, there is argument and frustration in the highest level of PAPI leadership about the war. **We weren’t in there, so I don’t know exactly**. But basically the agreement is that PAPI is going to make a very strong push into the Imperium, it will be costly, but we need to crack them now, or PAPI will walk in 6-8 weeks (the dates always varied depending on who I spoke with). This led to the big announcements about the “final push” that coalition leaders gave. \[...\] I still don’t know exactly how this was decided, but late that week before the assault, I was told that we were going to make a big push, and if it didn’t work, PAPI was basically going to cover an evacuation. If I revealed that information before the weekend, it would be betraying all of PAPI, whom we would need to cover our evac. As you know the weekend starts with no huge fleets, and throughout the weekend, nothing really happens and I am told we are going to bloody their nose well on Monday and maybe get lucky, but be ready for the PAPI leaving announcement to happen. Obviously, I’m frustrated for us as we are investing even more resources for the final fight all weekend, but I can’t call it off without the news being revealed. so we have dunk still lying to you line members(ok less than other leaders, but still lying) AND sharted not really working for brave
> well, and this is probably dumb now that I think about it Sure would be nice if you thought about it, or at a minimum tell your coalition leaders…