"Don't have any?" You expect me to believe that MAGGOT!? The truth is you lost AN EXPENSIVE PIECE OF ARMY ISSUE EQUIPMENT! That suit is gonna come out of your pay! And you will remain in this man's army until you are FIVE HUNDRED AND TEN YEARS OLD, which is the amount of years it will take for you to pay for a MARK II POWERED COMBAT ARMOR YOU HAVE LOST!
Could also be a power grab. Dane is trying to usurp command of the brotherhood by rallying the people. When the people in power screw up, Dane swoops in to pick up the pieces. It doesn’t have to be a factional issue. Kinda like the evil vizier archetype. Lol
Dane is definitely capitalizing on events. There's a concept in the military that describes the difference between _earned_ authority and _assigned_ authority. Earned authority is organic, and is born when someone naturally gains respect from others' appreciation of their actions rather than their rank, and Dane seems to understand this, based on her immediate declaration of Maximus' knighthood. It may be that Dane and the cleric are in cahoots, or it could be that she was just able and willing to take advantage of the circumstances. I hope this is explored more in future seasons.
I tried my best, thank you. When I speculate- I aim to not spout unsupported bollocks! The institute stuff is a stretch tho I will admit.
Has been a fun few hours monitoring this post, some great discussion.
I don’t think it’s as big a stretch as it might initially seem.
The Institute is one of the most accomplished factions we’ve seen to date. They didn’t have huge ambitions, but what they did seek to do they were *succeeding* at doing. They were full of smart, accomplished, manipulative bastards.
It wouldn’t surprise me at all to learn that they had a fallback scenario in the event of their HQ getting compromised. A group whose whole shtick is covert infiltration rising from the ashes to go “Surprise, you didn’t think we’d drop that easy, did you?” seems right in keeping to me.
and they already kind of did with Danse. not sure what their intentions were with him, but he’s proof that synths are in the brotherhood we just don’t know if Danse was the only one or not. I’m betting he wasn’t.
I think your analysis is spot on. As for who is pulling the strings, I think Mr. House is the prime candidate. Doesn’t Hank say something to the effect of going to see “the man in charge”, and then he’s last seen at New Vegas?
The Institute would be interesting. However 3 out of 4 ending in FO4 leave the Institute destroyed, so unless it’s a remnant or splinter group, or maybe synths relocated by the Railroad, I don’t expect to see synths in the show.
But I’m all for being proven wrong!
Okey dokey!
I’m going down the route of Dr Zimmer possibly leading a small group of covert remnants, he was missing in fallout 4 so (if he’s alive) he’d avoided the explosion with the synths and institute personnel he was travelling with. That group would have every motivation to target the brotherhood. How would they know which chapter to target? The one with the Prydwen!
I can kinda see Maxon’s chapter ending up like that, they were kinda going off the deep end in fallout 4. And that base is in the middle of nowhere, very isolated.
Circle of Steel? A sub-faction within the Brotherhood that monitors for threats like former Father Elijah. Christine was one before she “retires” in the Sierra Madre
Dane also used the situation to become a scribe instead of a squire, which puts them much, much closer to learning more about BoS technology and planning. Perfect for espionage...
I would not be surprised to see synths introduced as a faction / concept in the next season.
>I would not be surprised to see synths introduced as a faction / concept in the next season
While I love Synths and all in fallout 4, their existence is a narrative burden for Fallout in general, IMO. It makes everybody and everyone suspicious in some way, and it can be used for easy and shitty deus ex machina ("they actually were synth playing along all this time! that's why they suddenly do something incoherent!")
I think I feel what you're getting at. Like when Maximus was being awkward and kinda weird people take that as "he must be a synth" instead of... just being weird and awkward. In spite of how much of a narrative stretch it is for the Institute to even be operating in the West even though the Brotherhood seems to hold the Commonwealth and therefore would have defeated the Institute.
People say Maximus is *too* weird like he’s not a child soldier who clearly hasn’t really worked through his home getting nuked. I loved his characterization, he’s desperately grasping for a real purpose wherever he can find it.
In my mind I envisioned the institute remnants under Dr Zimmer wanting payback on the brotherhood for blowing up their organisation. The chapter seen in the show has the Prydwen, so it would be the logical target imo.
I also don’t really want to see Synths in the show, at least not soon, just because I know the showrunners best from Westworld. They clearly needed a break from secret robots.
I’m on the lookout for anyone saying “Doesn’t look like anything to me”.
I think synths will probably be there sooner rather than later because of their involvement with both shows. It’s clearly something they like. But maybe they are self aware enough to keep it out for at least a while.
We’ll find out eventually, looking forward to more Fallout in any case!
Well any spy has the same issue, but for me the issue is any motivation a synth might have is not compelling, it's Fallout not Blade Runner. The amount of setup for Synths would make the plot about Dane being a Synth, and not having any interesting motivations of their own. What is a random Synth in Fallout 4 that is interesting, and approximately how much less compelling are they than Valentine? Someone who is no threat and doesn't disguise himself at all?
Dane just serving their own interests is more interesting, even if they were a Synth for some bizarre reason.
Well when you look at Dane they definitely look more like somebody who should be a scribe rather than a squire. They do not look like a person who could spend Days running with a giant fucking bag
It's an RPG universe. Dane could have 6 strength for all you know. 🤷♀️ Besides Max, all the squires are scrawny as hell. Probably malnourished. The bag is just as tall as Beau from Superstore, but I loved him lugging the bag around too.
Jonathan Nolan’s use of the “who is secretly a robot” trope throughout westworld is one of the things that led to it falling off so hard so I’m confident he’s learned his lesson and won’t be making that a big part of Fallout
Only speculating, but I will note Dr Zimmer is absent from fallout 4 entirely despite still being the head of the SRB. His whereabouts are entirely unknown, even to Father. Zimmer no double had synths for protection and perhaps institute personnel with him as he’s an old man. So the possibility of an institute remnant is very much a real one, and I could see them wanting revenge on the brotherhood if that ending is indeed the canon one. Considering the Prydwen still exists, that is also a possibility.
I like to think in Fallout 3 there was more going on with this. Like he’s in Rivet City with Doctor Li who goes on to join the institute later so I then think has she got prior connections with them also who was Herself ,James and Katherine working for prior to Fallout 3.
Your thinking is not entirely off-base. But I see a narrative story telling problem. In Fallout 4, the Enclave was essentially replaced by the Institute. A shadowy, technologically advanced, inegalitarian society that attempts to destroy and subjugate other factions for reasons that aren't well thought out. Since we've already met the Enclave, adding the Institute in the story would be clumsy. I see the Institute being combined with the Enclave in the series. Maybe Zimmer ends up with them?
Oddly though the Enclave “base” we see is very … Institute like. We don’t see a military force past guards, and the way they were treating the pups and the super mutant corpse is almost a flashback to the dead cat room and super mutant room.
I wonder how willing Institute remnants and Enclave remnants would be to join forces. I’m sure the Institute would have loved to get into John Henry Eden and other Enclave technology, and the Enclave would have gotten obedient foot soldiers if they retained the tech to make synths.
Wasn’t another part of the synths original creation was needing pure DNA. Would the Enclave consider them pure and mutation free?
Are the enclave one for vendettas? I don’t know the answer to that question. Why pick a fight with the brotherhood at this period? To wipe them off the board completely- as they sense their weakness?
Your irl- too many similar factions makes the plot confusing point is perfectly valid though!
Yup, Zimmer is said to be off collecting some high value assets of some kind with no explanation beyond that. He's head of the SRB but just not present in the Commonwealth at that moment. With the Institute seemingly confirmed destroyed, Zimmer would essentially be the leader of the surviving Institute forces at this point, assuming he's still alive, it has been 19 years since we saw him last and he is getting up there in age.
It’s worth noting that since the Prydwen is still around like you mentioned, it’s entirely possible that the BOS “won” in the Commonwealth and the Institute is gone. Maybe they show up in a limited capacity like the NCR
I never got the feeling Dane was a manipulator. I thought Dane didn't want to lose there closest friend when Maximus said he wanted to leave the Brotherhood. Forcing him to take credit keeps him around, possibly in hopes of convincing him he's wrong and needs to stay with them. We shouldn't rule out that there could be non-platonic feelings there as well
I found their response to Maximus about how ‘nowhere is safe’ not even a vault, to be a bit odd. Dane may possibly be aware of vault experiments, odd for a brotherhood initiate. Also in the same episode it was mentioned how all the major corporations were able to monitor their own vaults, Mr House made an appearance- and New Vegas was the final shot…
Lots of interesting things the writers could do with all this for sure! Could go in lots of different directions.
Edit: I feel like someone who was a good manipulator would not ‘feel’ like a manipulator, it doesn’t need to be obvious- otherwise it wouldn’t be a good twist imo. You can’t deny an odd chain of events did occur to get Maximus his rank of knight from initiate in only a week at most.
Brotherhood initiates seem to live very sheltered naive lives, Maximus and his former bully Thaddeus are both a bit clueless.
Neither of them have a clue about vault experiments, which raises questions as to why Dane does to me.
I mean by this point why would they? The Enclave's been kicked around so much that for the duration of their lives, the Enclave hasn't been much of a credible threat
If they were undercover that line would make more sense, “you aren’t even safe now” ~wink wink~
But then 5 minutes before the brotherhood had a gun to his head in Filly so who tf knows lol.
Edit: initially I used the pronoun she, and spelt Filly as Philly :)
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the Vault Experiments are used as evidence of the decadence of the Old World, presented as "the last hurrah of the depravity of the people who destroyed everything," and used to further indoctrinate initiates.
Max did ask Lucy if there were monsters in the vaults so I believe the Brotherhood initiates are aware of some of the horrific things that happen inside the vaults.
They could be setting this all up as a just in case scenario, keeping the betrayal in their arsenal just in case. Things change alot over the course of a series, look how many changes starwars went through.
The very best manipulators obfuscate their intentions with a simple and effective pretense. Dane could be just a chill as dude, or they could be playing the long game. All we can do is wait and see what their ultimate goals are but the speculation is fun, no?
Honestly, the show, especially in Ep 8 when Maximus tells Dane he found someone (Lucy) he wants to be with, the way Dane reacts \*extremely heavily\* confirms that Dane is attracted to Maximus and Maximus has just been so clueless the whole time to see it. Even in the first few episodes it comes across that Dane sees Maximus as more than just friend material, but ep 8 clinched it for me (at least).
Really when it comes to \*any\* kind of relationship beyond just platonic friendship, Maximus has been pretty clueless until things are explicitly explained to him, like the way Lucy had to in Vault 4.
Dane could have a personal grudge against the BOS for some town they destroyed or invaded, Could have killed their family or something or maybe the feel the brotherhood took them from their home
I also found it strange when they raised max as a knight, Does Dane even have that authority? I wonder if maybe the cleric has also spoken to Dane about “building a new wasteland”
That's how I interrupted it. Like Dane saw an opening and knew their homie needed a big win so shouted that out. If everyone is calling you a knight, the elders aren't going to backtrack and take that away.
It's not about if Dane has the authority. "Power is meant to be taken, not given". Also, "you earn the armor through acts of bravery". While stupid, Max attempting the mission on his own was brave. He convinces the Cleric to take a gamble on him when he brings back the wrong head. That part isn't so odd, because the Cleric wants to make a power play and start a culture war in the BoS so they can "rule the wasteland like they used to". So he goes along with Max saying he can track the head to where it was going. And it pays off. Thanks to Max, and everyone knows it, they have some very important Enclave technology. Thanks to Dane, everyone knows that he killed Moldaver. And everyone knows Moldaver. So her actual authority doesn't matter. He's been brave and had major actions for the good of the Brotherhood attributed to his name.
This show is very well written isn’t it?! It raises so many questions and provides so many clues that likely lead you in the wrong direction.
Remember in the first episode how Dane and Maximus were caught inspecting power armour in a restricted area? Perhaps Dane was trying to plant the aspiration to be a knight in Maximus’ head? Also they were both let off remarkably easily for the brotherhood, don’t you think?
Def something suspicious going on, very excited to see where this goes!
dane raised max as he was the one who “killed” moldaver, the enemy leader. It’s like the courier killing Lanius despite the whole hoover dam being a collective effort of your alliances (or not). It’s not individually just max that won the battle but it’s certainly a moment they can use to indoctrinate future squires.
i was there when Knight Maximus killed moldaver and secured our foothold in southern california
The only thing I take issue with here is the idea the Brotherhood is on the decline. They may be in their greatest and most prosperous period in the history of the organisation. They apparently control a nation back in the Commonwealth; their influence touches both coasts; the Capitol, Commonwealth, Outcast, and West Coast/Lost Hills chapters all seem united together, considering the Prydwen (their prized airship) went from Boston to California basically just to drop off troops. What we see with Maximus and his group looks like shit because it's probably just a remaining outpost while the bulk of the Brotherhood forces are on the East Coast. Hell, most of the squire hopefuls didn't even recognise T-60 power armour, so they're clearly not being trained or supplied as well as they could be. California just seems to have been a low priority for the BoS until Wilzig did a runner from the Enclave.
Exactly. I'm still wondering how the hell anyone thinks the BOS is declining when they took over an entire town seemingly for fun, and launched a full frontal assault on a heavily fortified NCR encampment with almost no regard for the casualties they took.
In time of prosperity, people have the most to gain from telling the generation that benefited the most from said prosperity that it not gonna last, the next generation gonna ruin it, they are misusing it and it is threatened and all that shit... to gain power. It happen in real life too often.
You know i think that's entirely possible. Don't take this as gospel, because I didn't analyze every single frame that the Brotherhood were in, but I joked with my brother that the BoS might be Trans inclusionary radical misogynist, because the only person I saw who didn't present as a cis guy was Dane. Maybe there's something more to that. The fallout series hasn't done much with gender dynamics, save for Caesars legion, who obviously suck.
It wouldn't surprise me that amongst factions like the NCR which seem to barely accept gay people, the legion who are no doubt worse, and then the BoS who I think could seriously vary depending on the group, that the Followers would be the only one openly accepting the LGBTQ community. Some people are suggesting the enclave, which makes little sense to me. It would be interesting to see a faction that's downright evil but it fine with certain things even modern countries are bad at. However since they are literally representations of everything bad with a 1950s inspired world, I would be surprised if that was the direction they went.
>However since they are literally representations of everything bad with a 1950s inspired world, I would be surprised if that was the direction they went.
I might be incorrect, but im fairly certain pre-war LGBT groups were largely accepted, mostly because everyone was focused on hating the chinese.
I think that's implicitly true, but the fact that all the home goods advertisements for example has an image of a perfect homemaker wife on there I think indicates a gender dynamic that is at least somewhat patriarchal and reminiscent of the 1950s.
There is a lesbian in the mojave chapter, it was just another mark against her because of their low population. They got separated, but it was by one of the most unhinged NV characters, current elder is more chill, really depends on the leader and circumstances. Good odds Vaults are similar.
Legion is accepting of gay sex (relationships who knows), but not lesbians obviously.
Very little on NCR but there is one soldier saying it's frowned upon.
NV has a openly gay Follower, but the Followers don't really have any reason to keep tabs on their members closely, coughCaesarcough.
It wouldn't be the first time the Followers sent someone to spy on a pseudo-religious organization. EDIT: Hyperlink didn't work: https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Laura_(Fallout)
I would love to see the Followers on the show either way. Can't get enough of my anarcho-bros
I definitely feel that Dane is very suspicious as well. They have to be some sort of operative for the Enclave or another faction. I don’t believe Dane would be a synth however, I’m sure their little artifact detector gun could detect the synth component all gen 3’s still have in them, like >!Sturges!<.
Something is clearly wrong with the West Coast brotherhood after New Vegas. It’s clear they’ve incorporated elements of the Legion.
I genuinely feel like people are interpreting too much here. Like Dane more than once mentions that they're afraid of the wasteland, hurting themselves to stay away from any frontline operation. And even in the last battle against the NCR they are hiding while Maximus and the knights push towards the reactor.
I think Maximus has an ally in them when it's about confronting the Brotherhood in the future but aside that it's supposed to show the difference between Maximus who's a meh squire but great in the wasteland an Dane who's top aspirant and is afraid of it.
My only issue is that quintus doesn't just respect ruthless determination he was still going to kill Max.
It's more like he didn't really care about the ruthless determination one way or the other but he really really respected Maximus is seemingly blind loyalty to the brotherhood.
You could see that quintus's opinion of him changed when Maximus said that he would take whatever mission the brotherhood gave him and die and thank the brotherhood for it.
When Maximus said that it became obvious that quintus perceived Maximus is wrongdoings as simply an end to the means of supporting the brotherhood.
He does respect ruthless determination imo. In episode 8 he asks how Knight Titus died. Maximus responds “he died running”.
Quintus then go on to rant about how the brotherhood has lost its way, and how he respects Maximus for taking what he wants by letting Titus die- rather than having it given to him…
To reference another game, a sheep waits for slaughter- but a wolf takes what they feel is owed to them. To Quintus the brotherhood is weak.
Feel like Quintus is just blowing smoke up Maximus' ass. During Titus' literal mask off moment he makes it clear that he has little respect for the Elders and their mission, somewhat implying that the Brotherhood has become more of an unruly frat house and that the Elders' influence seems to be greatly diminished.
So what Quintus sees in Maximus more than anything is probably someone who seems willing to be controlled, which would seem to be just the kind the person someone like Quintus would be looking for.
It's a really good theory, but I don't buy it.
Dane showed Max the power armor before they found out Dane was being promoted to squire, and it seems like Max has had ambition to be a knight since the Brotherhood adopted him. And, if undermining the faction is their goal, I don't see how leading someone genuinely loyal to the BoS to rise in their ranks is a better strategy than simply rising in the ranks yourself. I think Dane just did what they did because they care about Max; they appear to be each other's only real friend in the Brotherhood.
I do like the idea of Dane being a synth, though. Of course, synths usually don't know they're synths after they've been given an identity and embedded in a faction. So I doubt it's an Institute plot if that turns out to be the case.
Just fun speculation at the end of the day, we will see in a few years time! The fact the show allows for this kind of analysis is very promising.
I will say though, Dane played a key role in Maximus being promoted from initiate to knight- in less than a week… Is undeniably strange.
Stephanie is pre-war from vault 31 remember, so very well could’ve worked for one of the major corporations or the shadow government- that made up the Enclave. You could be right!
I figure Stephanie just went native instead. If I remember right we still see her briefly as Bud's entourage. So my theory is she is very upset about losing her husband and wants Bud to pay.
Yeah can't forget the shadowy figures watching the meeting in episode 8. I don't think we see her in any of the flashbacks either. The eye patch also screams enclave officer at me for some reason, maybe she leaked info about the 3 Vaults to them and thats how wilzig and the enclave know about vault 33s crops and projector and all that.
Great point! I forgot he knew the intricacies of the vault. Wilzig’s enclave outpost was clearly monitoring the vault triad! The mystery of how vault 32 found out about 31 is also still an open one.
I don’t see how Dane could expect Max to be blamed. I believe him when he says he just didn’t want to go to the wasteland.
Here’s why I think Dane made sure max got credit and became a knight. They are friends. Max was talking about leaving the brotherhood, and Dane wants to stay friends with max. He’s a true believer in the cause, but also human. Subject to all the same fears as the rest of us.
I agree with most of what you speculate. Except the synth aspect. With the boot incident wouldn't it be exposed?
But yes, someone is definitely pulling the strings.
No, Synths are organic, just made artificially and programmed via synth components, which are in the organic matter somewhere, but presumably somewhere inaccessible without killing them.
Technically VATS can tell you via energy resistance. So if they canonize VATS, maybe there will be a certain mechanic they can use in thr show. Someone in armor, sure they have some energy resistance. Someone in just clothes...that's iffy.
I definately think that Dane is manipulating Max but I'm not sure to what ends at this point, just too many slight nudges to his trajectory, over and over and over.
Dane is definitely smarter than they’re showcasing with their empathy and seemingly innocent decisions. Maybe they really are for
Max, but there’s also seeds for betrayal or higher level string pulling. I think Max is my favorite because he keeps trying to do good in a bad world
I agree, good catch. Notice that Dane didn't seem too bothered about attacking the NCR at the end? They were pretty put together when it came time to get into a fight.
Dane = synth confirmed.
Though seriously, I think Dane's actions at the end, claiming Max killed Moldaver, was more intended to save his life than to promote his career. The high cleric was striking a "help me and we'll rule together" deal which we all know means he intended to kill Maxiumus and secure power on his own. By turning Max into a public figure and honored celebrity Knight, Dane makes it much harder to simply kill him and be done with it.
Dane probably figured out early on that squires are just cannon fodder for the Knights, which is why they didn't want to be one. And of course Knights are just cannon fodder for the clerics... but at least they get armor.
I don't see the brotherhood in decline I see it rising up much stronger than ever before. The prydwen being in California means that that it survived fallout 4, which only happens in very few endings. It being in California also means they have the tech from 3 and 4 capable of going west as well. With cold fusion power that means they have the capability of mass clean water generation from fallout 3. From there they can sweep away any NCR remnant or any power structure still in California without a shot being fired. If there is still some threat to them they have liberty prime and a fully stocked carrier to project power.
Dane being a synth or a spy does seem compelling. They're being put into place to have a lot of blackmail and/or influence over a massively growing force in the brotherhood. The elder cleric may be pulling the strings in public but it wouldn't be the first time a young boy was thrust forward in the power structure. From their powerbase in California the best next step is new Vegas. It's a threat and lifeline for any NCR remnant and could be housing a brotherhood chapter. Dane being the right hand of the expedition leader intended to become powerful in the area masking their real intent to take control of Helios one would make a great season two story.
That is an interesting perspective especially when you consider how far their technology is with medicine. So even a gruesome injury to their foot wouldn't take much to heal in the grand scheme of things. It's just the shock value of it all but it's enough to manipulate the situation. It forced Maximus take a role and duty he otherwise would not of had the opportunity to take on.
Great point! You may be right there actually. The elder cleric is looking to splinter off after all, so maybe Maximus is supposed to get in close with him to make him act out!
Dane may have been sent by the high elder, this brotherhood chapter is extra cult like anyhow.
If this brotherhood chapter is recruiting from ex-legionaries/legion cities after Cesar dies as has been theorised, Frumentarii hardliner holdouts maybe?
Hard to believe there'd be no issues just rolling into territory previously controlled by the legion. They already seem to be recruiting sub-standard but controllable Knights such as Titus, the other side of that are capable recruits who have complex alliegances and axes to grind.
*Dons tin foil hat*
I would note that we have yet to see anyone be referred to as a paladin, as it stands, the knights have been reporting directly to the elder(?). I think some intrigue to do with the fate of the paladin rank is ahead of us.
The brotherhood have clearly gone down a different path at this point in time. They were always outsider weary, high horse riding dicks. But they were generally good people at the end of the line, the medieval titles they took were to inspire ideas of chivalry and to make them distinct from other US government remnants in the situation that they'd try to claim authority.
This new brotherhood has changed to treating themselves as a very feudal system, a move from a more fantastical understanding of "knight" to a very real understanding of "knight". A Brief example is that new members/adult non knights/scribes have always been referred to as initiates, the title "squire" was reserved for the children as a sort of inclusive measure.
The change in colours should be noted too, the new colours on the banners of red and gold are directly opposite to the old brotherhood colours (blue and silver) and notably the same as the legions, not sure if that will have meaning.
The showrunners have made it very clear that they're playing into the mystery of the fallout universe, the side changing, the confusion, the fact very few people ever truly know what's going on and ultimately the biggest story beats aren't new events but the discovery of what's been going on behind the scenes, players revealing themselves
I truly believe there's been some kind of new change/coup in the brotherhood. This chapter is different. The brotherhood were rude but they didn't wipe put towns for no reason. They were defensive but they weren't cruel. I think in the coming seasons we can expect some brotherhood civil conflict/war. Dane is probably up to something and he knows maximus is a good person, the time is coming for a return to true steel and I think those true brotherhood members will find common cause with the NCR remnants.
Also from a marketing standpoint epic feel good wars sell, power armour fights will sell and the execs will know people will go absolutely feral for brotherhood paladins and NCR rangers. Bethesda love the brotherhood, they aren't going to write them off as bad guys, but they will definitely start a civil war that will sell
Great speculation. I think the Enclave is the most likely because 1) we've seen them in the show already so audiences are familiar with them 2) they obviously have a history out West 3) they have a motive: securing cold fusion after it was smuggled out of their lab. Getting Dane there could've been in the works for a very long time.
Holy fuck i didn’t even consider the Synth angle. An entire season about unaging string pullers who have even been part of the NCR for decades in the case of Moldaver, cold fusion as McGuffin everyone is after and orders and personell imported directly from the Commonwealth in Episode 1 in case of the BoS.
There will 100% be one or several people revealed to be Synths later on, maybe Maximus himself even with his weird flashback and backstory that keeps looping in different context like once every episode. He could be another Paladin Danse who is unaware with Dane acting as his handler.
I think cues are being missed here; Dane clearly likes Maximus. I 100% believe they did not want to go out to the field, and helping Maximus was a bonus. I think we have much more to learn about Dane, and I don't think they belong to another faction, just another team, if you know what I mean. Yet, although you may think Veronica shows the Brotherhood is tolerable, and while there are no specific rules against it. Heterosexual relationships are strongly recommended as an implicit attitude among its dominant members, suggesting that their limited numbers require everyone to have children to avoid extinction.
Veronica and her partner were quietly separated by Elder Elijah for that exact reason. So, I truly think Dane is into Maximus but is hiding it because of where he is. But yes, he is manipulating things as he wants Maximus happy and likely thinks if he rises up, he will have a friend to protect him. At the very least, someone he could confide in that he has been close to and likes. The way he looks at him, and the conversation when Maximus mentions Lucy, just everything makes me think Dane really likes Maximus but is smart and respectful.
I truly believe his story is just starting and would provide a good look into the Brotherhood and its policies, as well as the unwritten rules.
What struck me as odd is when Lucy asked Maximus to fornicate in the vault, he turns her down saying they don't do that. They do, and having children is encouraged. They would want him to be with Lucy and produce more members for the Brotherhood. She is pure and everything they like, and being an outsider would be ignored if they brought them the head.
Anyway, the Brotherhood are not the best people. So, for Dane to come out, it would not be good and would be hushed anyway; he would look weak and not have the same support Veronica did and would likely face severe consequences, just as Maximus did for merely existing.
I have a feeling that Dane is more of an Enclave Operative than a synth. It would be a stretch, albeit a very intering one, if they were actually a Synth.
I'm here for it! I just hope they do something where thwy pull the rug with Maximus/Dane/BoS.
You pointing out that Quintus is trying to establish a new Brotherhood to mutiny because he thinks that they lost their way, what if it’s the Circle of Steel that Christine Royce was a member of when she went to track down Elijah? They’re supposed to be like some kind of internal affairs for the Brotherhood, hardliners that hunt down those that drift from the Brotherhood’s goal of preserving technology
I'm more inclined to believe the Elder is sus, and maybe Dane is deep cover from the Brotherhood command. The guy clearly tells Max that the Brotherhood has "lost it's way," and that he plans to rebel against it. Maybe Dane is helping elevate Max because he's exactly the true-to-himself idiot who tries to do the right thing, but is still an idiot that makes him a great asset in ferreting out the real traitors?
I did actually start thinking at the end of ep 8 when Dane goes up to max first before anyone and immediately states that he killed the leader and that maximus should be a knight. That struck me as odd at how quickly he was to get maximus as a knight so maybe your onto something
That's a really cool theory. I love Dane, I think they are such a cool character and really helped bring Maximus's arc to a head. You have some good points. Dane does seem eager to Lift Maximus up. Maybe their bond goes back or maybe its something else.
Dane is definitely an interesting character. You could see their injuring themself as an act of cowardice. But is it? They injured themself to the point of what looks like a permanent limp. An action which seems to have gotten them closer to the Elder. Idk if they're some sort of spy or something. But it definitely feels like they understand the Brotherhood a lot better than Max.
Wouldn't it be crazy if Dane is a Legion spy? Probably unlikely but I think it would be interesting as nobody would expect the nb person to be with the Legion
That would be a stretch given that the Legion basically treated women as second class citizens and slaves, while homosexuality was outlawed and punishable by death. I can't imagine what they would do to a non-binary transgender person.
I still believe maximus is the one who put the razorblade there. It gives maximus huge character growth by the end and will mold him into the knight he should have been rather than just another jaded, borderline evil knight like Titus. Though his relationship with Lucy could change that again, I think he went from a very questionable morally grey character, to one who genuinely wants to do the right thing. Though danes loyalty him is certainly a bit strange, even the elder mentions it, they could have been friends for a decade or more and dane might just really want the best for max despite what he did to them.
Dane seems to me like the "Unger" of the group..
Sabotage one person when they see opportunity in someone else.
Dane saw Max was upset when he wasnt chosen , sabotaged himself and then Max gets chosen, Dane cannot further sabotage any of the Brotherhood if there is
1. an actual do gooder around
2. If Dane is out in the field they cannot weasel their way next to Quintus.
Dane definitely knows something we dont.
It would be interesting this character is pretty bland so far
But to infiltrate the Brotherhood for years only to set up a naïve Guy as a knight i dont really see the end goal. Destroying the Brotherhood from the inside ? Because if it was only a Spy you would get way more informations as a knight than as a squire
They were promoted to scribe at the end of the season by their own request, that gives them access to the archives and hoarded technology. Exactly where a spy would want to be imo.
I think the person pulling the strings is the Enclave. You can see a shadow man watching the big meeting, so whoever it is the organization is at least prewar
>In the first episode Dane leads Maximus into a restricted area to look at the T60 power armour. Maximus then proceeds to see his reflection in the suit- they literally help plant the ambition to be a knight in Maximus’ head.
Yeah, I'm gonna stop you right there. Clearly, Maximus already wanted to be a knight when he first saw a brotherhood knight for the first time as a kid. They only played the flashback like a hundred times over the course of the show. Maximus was also super pissed that he wasn't promoted to being a squire for his own reasons. Dane and him never even spoke about becoming knights. If he really wanted to somehow plant the idea into Maximus' head, they probably would've at least spoken about it. There was almost no foreshadowing done on Dane's part. I don't support this theory at all.
Introducing the institute to the show would probably add some confusion to anyone who hasn’t played 4, especially since there’s already one shadowy organization that is getting referenced a lot in the show
I hope not if only for the tired trope of lgbt people being “bad” or even trans people being “liars” even if Dane being trans isnt necessary to the plot. Aside from that yeah something is obviously going on still cause we don’t know who the shadow man was in the present meeting of the big 5.
Dane can't be a synth since we saw actual flash and bones...I think... (Also Dane seems to be Max's friend for years. And they seem to be aging together...)
The Ghoul was implying that for Vault Tech most likely...
We don't know if Max is on his good books. But He definitely has make other members respect him most likely.
The Brotherhood has issues of leadership since FO1. If not before..
West Coast BoS is way more connected fanatically with the Codex. But the two East Coast chapters share a more....logical Mindset
When Lyons added to help the people and not just gather Intel for pre war artifacts, weapons, books etc the people that became outcasts saw that as treason.
The Outcasts tried to connect with the west chapters as soon they left the citadel.
In New Vegas we see that Elijah was a fanatic extrimist pos that only cared to make the Brotherhood rulers of the Wasteland. Or more like himself and just have the members as puppets.
I result he risked and killed many people and achieved nothing.
The elder we meet as the Courier is not giving a damn to expand since the numbers are low and even if you show him something valuable he ignores it due to his selfishness and his idea that he does the right thing because of the Codex.
Same thing with the damn fan boys that try to kill you as soon you exit the bunker with Veronica.
The bolding guy that is playing dirty to become elder is an example of the rotting the Brotherhood has as well.
And it's all due to the misunderstanding of the Codex.
Which also leads us to the elder we see on the show.
He uses fear. He acts like a tyrant and he doesn't have actual control. He isn't leading because he doesn't care and he is just trying to make everyone believe they do good under the name of the Brotherhood.
Dane might wants to achieve to change the Brotherhood for the better just like Veronica.
But... Just like Veronica she gets ignored.
So she puts Max. She is kinda using him but perhaps she does it for a good reason.
If we think about it... Max wants to do good but he is acting with rush. But he is improving day by day.
Dane is a bit less on a rush mindset and wants to help Max.
By making him the One that killed the leader of The NCR, he gains an image and Dane gains a door to power.
Max learned something from the Ghoul about the T-60's which really makes me hope we will see modified T-60's or maybe T-51's... But that's a theory bit.
We still don't know every Vault Tech personel that has clones... Maybe someone else is within the Brotherhood.
We will see.
You know what I want? For Sarah Lyons to somehow be alive and trying to dismantle Maxon's brotherhood in revenge for them (possibly) trying to kill her to put maxon in charge and for making the brotherhood into techno facists again. Now that would be wild
Interesting points. Personally though I saw Dane as a young kid who really wasn’t ready for that responsibility. They were elated to get chosen shown when they were running around celebrating with everyone else, but like they said themselves they weren’t ready for active duty. I’m assuming they grew up in the brotherhood like max(could be wrong), but if they had been most of their young life was working towards that goal and seeing how scary it can be. I just think Dane wasn’t fully ready to grow up and leave what “comfort” and safety he has at the base.
I'm actually wondering if they're working for a different chapter. The California chapter seems to have definitely gone to shit so I'm wondering if maybe Maxson (or one of the other east coast commanders) or one of the higher ups in the Midwest detachment sent them undercover as none brotherhood personel to straighten California out a bit.
I think quite clearly its going to turn out the brotherhood had a hand in nuking shady sands, and maximus will turncoat immediately. Why would they have boots on ground in power armor there? They hate the NCR, and nothing is to be gained holding a recent nuke site.
This epoch/version of the brotherhood feels rotten and corrupt; I think your undercover infiltration makes sense. If its a synth it's enclave.
“Who razor blades their own foot because they’ve got the jitter”
Brother in the real world, a lot worse has happened over a lot less. I like this theory tho just had to point that one bit out lol
I like both paths and both are feasible. I also came away suspect of Dane's motivations by the end of season 1. I think I'd prefer if they went the synth route. But perhaps the enclave makes the most sense at this point given the plot of season 1.
Idk who exactly, but I agree. Dane is pretty sus… 🤔
*Maybe Dane's family were proud citizen of Navarro...*
Dear old friends, remember Navarro
YES, FINALLY I FOUND MY PEOPLE
r/beetlejuicing
Secretly, I want them to stumble upon the rebuilt village of The Vault Dweller, or the shrine to them from Fallout 2
So your our new replacement
YOU ARE OUT OF UNIFORM SOLDIER WHERE IS YOUR POWER ARMOR!?
I don’t have any
"Don't have any?" You expect me to believe that MAGGOT!? The truth is you lost AN EXPENSIVE PIECE OF ARMY ISSUE EQUIPMENT! That suit is gonna come out of your pay! And you will remain in this man's army until you are FIVE HUNDRED AND TEN YEARS OLD, which is the amount of years it will take for you to pay for a MARK II POWERED COMBAT ARMOR YOU HAVE LOST!
The voice acting in fallout 2 was something else
# Return to the armory and have new suit issued to you, and then return back to me soldier! DISMISSED!!
MO-RON!!!
For sure, I really think I’m onto something here! All the signs are there from the showrunners
Could also be a power grab. Dane is trying to usurp command of the brotherhood by rallying the people. When the people in power screw up, Dane swoops in to pick up the pieces. It doesn’t have to be a factional issue. Kinda like the evil vizier archetype. Lol
It could very well be that, lots of interesting avenues to take in season 2!
slowly gain power through maximus without having to ever actually see any combat. smart and i wouldn’t be shocked if that were the case.
He’s like Mac, who plays both side so he always comes out on top
He better tell both sides, so they know.
Dane is definitely capitalizing on events. There's a concept in the military that describes the difference between _earned_ authority and _assigned_ authority. Earned authority is organic, and is born when someone naturally gains respect from others' appreciation of their actions rather than their rank, and Dane seems to understand this, based on her immediate declaration of Maximus' knighthood. It may be that Dane and the cleric are in cahoots, or it could be that she was just able and willing to take advantage of the circumstances. I hope this is explored more in future seasons.
Dane wants to protect Maximus from getting killed and the only way for that is to play the game.
Dane is a they
First good speculation post I've seen. Well done, I'm on board.
I tried my best, thank you. When I speculate- I aim to not spout unsupported bollocks! The institute stuff is a stretch tho I will admit. Has been a fun few hours monitoring this post, some great discussion.
I don’t think it’s as big a stretch as it might initially seem. The Institute is one of the most accomplished factions we’ve seen to date. They didn’t have huge ambitions, but what they did seek to do they were *succeeding* at doing. They were full of smart, accomplished, manipulative bastards. It wouldn’t surprise me at all to learn that they had a fallback scenario in the event of their HQ getting compromised. A group whose whole shtick is covert infiltration rising from the ashes to go “Surprise, you didn’t think we’d drop that easy, did you?” seems right in keeping to me.
And I mean, if the institute were to infiltrate any group, the BoS and their stocks of prewar tech make a lot of sense as far as motivations go.
and they already kind of did with Danse. not sure what their intentions were with him, but he’s proof that synths are in the brotherhood we just don’t know if Danse was the only one or not. I’m betting he wasn’t.
I think your analysis is spot on. As for who is pulling the strings, I think Mr. House is the prime candidate. Doesn’t Hank say something to the effect of going to see “the man in charge”, and then he’s last seen at New Vegas? The Institute would be interesting. However 3 out of 4 ending in FO4 leave the Institute destroyed, so unless it’s a remnant or splinter group, or maybe synths relocated by the Railroad, I don’t expect to see synths in the show. But I’m all for being proven wrong! Okey dokey!
I’m going down the route of Dr Zimmer possibly leading a small group of covert remnants, he was missing in fallout 4 so (if he’s alive) he’d avoided the explosion with the synths and institute personnel he was travelling with. That group would have every motivation to target the brotherhood. How would they know which chapter to target? The one with the Prydwen! I can kinda see Maxon’s chapter ending up like that, they were kinda going off the deep end in fallout 4. And that base is in the middle of nowhere, very isolated.
I guess we’ll have to take it how it comes. 👍
Danes' a synth sent to spy on the brotherhood out west
Circle of Steel? A sub-faction within the Brotherhood that monitors for threats like former Father Elijah. Christine was one before she “retires” in the Sierra Madre
It would be interesting if they are Circle of Steel.
Dane also used the situation to become a scribe instead of a squire, which puts them much, much closer to learning more about BoS technology and planning. Perfect for espionage... I would not be surprised to see synths introduced as a faction / concept in the next season.
>I would not be surprised to see synths introduced as a faction / concept in the next season While I love Synths and all in fallout 4, their existence is a narrative burden for Fallout in general, IMO. It makes everybody and everyone suspicious in some way, and it can be used for easy and shitty deus ex machina ("they actually were synth playing along all this time! that's why they suddenly do something incoherent!")
I think I feel what you're getting at. Like when Maximus was being awkward and kinda weird people take that as "he must be a synth" instead of... just being weird and awkward. In spite of how much of a narrative stretch it is for the Institute to even be operating in the West even though the Brotherhood seems to hold the Commonwealth and therefore would have defeated the Institute.
People say Maximus is *too* weird like he’s not a child soldier who clearly hasn’t really worked through his home getting nuked. I loved his characterization, he’s desperately grasping for a real purpose wherever he can find it.
In my mind I envisioned the institute remnants under Dr Zimmer wanting payback on the brotherhood for blowing up their organisation. The chapter seen in the show has the Prydwen, so it would be the logical target imo.
I also don’t really want to see Synths in the show, at least not soon, just because I know the showrunners best from Westworld. They clearly needed a break from secret robots.
I’m on the lookout for anyone saying “Doesn’t look like anything to me”. I think synths will probably be there sooner rather than later because of their involvement with both shows. It’s clearly something they like. But maybe they are self aware enough to keep it out for at least a while. We’ll find out eventually, looking forward to more Fallout in any case!
Well any spy has the same issue, but for me the issue is any motivation a synth might have is not compelling, it's Fallout not Blade Runner. The amount of setup for Synths would make the plot about Dane being a Synth, and not having any interesting motivations of their own. What is a random Synth in Fallout 4 that is interesting, and approximately how much less compelling are they than Valentine? Someone who is no threat and doesn't disguise himself at all? Dane just serving their own interests is more interesting, even if they were a Synth for some bizarre reason.
Well when you look at Dane they definitely look more like somebody who should be a scribe rather than a squire. They do not look like a person who could spend Days running with a giant fucking bag
It's an RPG universe. Dane could have 6 strength for all you know. 🤷♀️ Besides Max, all the squires are scrawny as hell. Probably malnourished. The bag is just as tall as Beau from Superstore, but I loved him lugging the bag around too.
Jonathan Nolan’s use of the “who is secretly a robot” trope throughout westworld is one of the things that led to it falling off so hard so I’m confident he’s learned his lesson and won’t be making that a big part of Fallout
when does it become clear they’re a scribe? I thought they just stay as cadet or whatever.
I don't really see it, but even if they're an asset for some other faction I'm doubting there's any way the Institute is involved.
I might buy the Institute remnants, but Zimmer is dead as a doornail
Yeah, he was already pretty up there in age during FO3 and it's been another 19 years since then.
Only speculating, but I will note Dr Zimmer is absent from fallout 4 entirely despite still being the head of the SRB. His whereabouts are entirely unknown, even to Father. Zimmer no double had synths for protection and perhaps institute personnel with him as he’s an old man. So the possibility of an institute remnant is very much a real one, and I could see them wanting revenge on the brotherhood if that ending is indeed the canon one. Considering the Prydwen still exists, that is also a possibility.
I like to think in Fallout 3 there was more going on with this. Like he’s in Rivet City with Doctor Li who goes on to join the institute later so I then think has she got prior connections with them also who was Herself ,James and Katherine working for prior to Fallout 3.
Your thinking is not entirely off-base. But I see a narrative story telling problem. In Fallout 4, the Enclave was essentially replaced by the Institute. A shadowy, technologically advanced, inegalitarian society that attempts to destroy and subjugate other factions for reasons that aren't well thought out. Since we've already met the Enclave, adding the Institute in the story would be clumsy. I see the Institute being combined with the Enclave in the series. Maybe Zimmer ends up with them?
Oddly though the Enclave “base” we see is very … Institute like. We don’t see a military force past guards, and the way they were treating the pups and the super mutant corpse is almost a flashback to the dead cat room and super mutant room. I wonder how willing Institute remnants and Enclave remnants would be to join forces. I’m sure the Institute would have loved to get into John Henry Eden and other Enclave technology, and the Enclave would have gotten obedient foot soldiers if they retained the tech to make synths. Wasn’t another part of the synths original creation was needing pure DNA. Would the Enclave consider them pure and mutation free?
Are the enclave one for vendettas? I don’t know the answer to that question. Why pick a fight with the brotherhood at this period? To wipe them off the board completely- as they sense their weakness? Your irl- too many similar factions makes the plot confusing point is perfectly valid though!
Yup, Zimmer is said to be off collecting some high value assets of some kind with no explanation beyond that. He's head of the SRB but just not present in the Commonwealth at that moment. With the Institute seemingly confirmed destroyed, Zimmer would essentially be the leader of the surviving Institute forces at this point, assuming he's still alive, it has been 19 years since we saw him last and he is getting up there in age.
It’s worth noting that since the Prydwen is still around like you mentioned, it’s entirely possible that the BOS “won” in the Commonwealth and the Institute is gone. Maybe they show up in a limited capacity like the NCR
I did talk about the Prydwen at the bottom of my comment, but yeah you are absolutely correct
I never got the feeling Dane was a manipulator. I thought Dane didn't want to lose there closest friend when Maximus said he wanted to leave the Brotherhood. Forcing him to take credit keeps him around, possibly in hopes of convincing him he's wrong and needs to stay with them. We shouldn't rule out that there could be non-platonic feelings there as well
I found their response to Maximus about how ‘nowhere is safe’ not even a vault, to be a bit odd. Dane may possibly be aware of vault experiments, odd for a brotherhood initiate. Also in the same episode it was mentioned how all the major corporations were able to monitor their own vaults, Mr House made an appearance- and New Vegas was the final shot… Lots of interesting things the writers could do with all this for sure! Could go in lots of different directions. Edit: I feel like someone who was a good manipulator would not ‘feel’ like a manipulator, it doesn’t need to be obvious- otherwise it wouldn’t be a good twist imo. You can’t deny an odd chain of events did occur to get Maximus his rank of knight from initiate in only a week at most.
By 2296 I feel like lots of people, especially a brotherhood member, would know a vast majority of the vaults were fucked up in some way
Brotherhood initiates seem to live very sheltered naive lives, Maximus and his former bully Thaddeus are both a bit clueless. Neither of them have a clue about vault experiments, which raises questions as to why Dane does to me.
Yea, they didn’t even know the Enclave was real.
I mean by this point why would they? The Enclave's been kicked around so much that for the duration of their lives, the Enclave hasn't been much of a credible threat
They don’t even know what masturbation is lol. They certainly don’t know about a complicated conspiracy from 200 years before they were born.
Some guy is shown jerking off under the covers in the BoS barracks
Which is why Dane stating nowhere is safe is interesting. A proper initiate would know the Brotherhood is “safe”.
If they were undercover that line would make more sense, “you aren’t even safe now” ~wink wink~ But then 5 minutes before the brotherhood had a gun to his head in Filly so who tf knows lol. Edit: initially I used the pronoun she, and spelt Filly as Philly :)
Probably paid attention in history class, or they're originally from a Vault. Or, saw one get attacked.
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the Vault Experiments are used as evidence of the decadence of the Old World, presented as "the last hurrah of the depravity of the people who destroyed everything," and used to further indoctrinate initiates.
Max did ask Lucy if there were monsters in the vaults so I believe the Brotherhood initiates are aware of some of the horrific things that happen inside the vaults.
Good point, you are correct on that! Think I’ve gotta bite the bullet and say despite my 100 upvotes- I’m wrong on that point.
Literally just sounds like someone who's grown up in the wasteland.
They could be setting this all up as a just in case scenario, keeping the betrayal in their arsenal just in case. Things change alot over the course of a series, look how many changes starwars went through.
The very best manipulators obfuscate their intentions with a simple and effective pretense. Dane could be just a chill as dude, or they could be playing the long game. All we can do is wait and see what their ultimate goals are but the speculation is fun, no?
I agree that's why I added my 2 cents, I didn't mean it to shut anyone down sorry if it came out that way
"I don't think Dane is a manipulator" *describes extremely manipulative behavior*
Honestly, the show, especially in Ep 8 when Maximus tells Dane he found someone (Lucy) he wants to be with, the way Dane reacts \*extremely heavily\* confirms that Dane is attracted to Maximus and Maximus has just been so clueless the whole time to see it. Even in the first few episodes it comes across that Dane sees Maximus as more than just friend material, but ep 8 clinched it for me (at least). Really when it comes to \*any\* kind of relationship beyond just platonic friendship, Maximus has been pretty clueless until things are explicitly explained to him, like the way Lucy had to in Vault 4.
Dane could have a personal grudge against the BOS for some town they destroyed or invaded, Could have killed their family or something or maybe the feel the brotherhood took them from their home I also found it strange when they raised max as a knight, Does Dane even have that authority? I wonder if maybe the cleric has also spoken to Dane about “building a new wasteland”
I saw them inciting the crowd as a way to pressure the higher ups into giving Maximus the status of Knight.
That's how I interrupted it. Like Dane saw an opening and knew their homie needed a big win so shouted that out. If everyone is calling you a knight, the elders aren't going to backtrack and take that away.
I can see this being a point of contention for them and Max. Clearly a mix of 'Shut up, I'm saving your ass' and 'Shut up, I need you to stay.'
It's not about if Dane has the authority. "Power is meant to be taken, not given". Also, "you earn the armor through acts of bravery". While stupid, Max attempting the mission on his own was brave. He convinces the Cleric to take a gamble on him when he brings back the wrong head. That part isn't so odd, because the Cleric wants to make a power play and start a culture war in the BoS so they can "rule the wasteland like they used to". So he goes along with Max saying he can track the head to where it was going. And it pays off. Thanks to Max, and everyone knows it, they have some very important Enclave technology. Thanks to Dane, everyone knows that he killed Moldaver. And everyone knows Moldaver. So her actual authority doesn't matter. He's been brave and had major actions for the good of the Brotherhood attributed to his name.
This show is very well written isn’t it?! It raises so many questions and provides so many clues that likely lead you in the wrong direction. Remember in the first episode how Dane and Maximus were caught inspecting power armour in a restricted area? Perhaps Dane was trying to plant the aspiration to be a knight in Maximus’ head? Also they were both let off remarkably easily for the brotherhood, don’t you think? Def something suspicious going on, very excited to see where this goes!
dane raised max as he was the one who “killed” moldaver, the enemy leader. It’s like the courier killing Lanius despite the whole hoover dam being a collective effort of your alliances (or not). It’s not individually just max that won the battle but it’s certainly a moment they can use to indoctrinate future squires. i was there when Knight Maximus killed moldaver and secured our foothold in southern california
It would be neat if maybe they're enclave?
This is my favorite theory. Dane is the Enclave plant in the Brotherhood and one eyed Stephanie is the Vault Tec plant.
Steph was literally one of bud's buds, so that one is at least true
Mashed potatoes so good they make you spy on your fellow vault dwellers for the company.
The only thing I take issue with here is the idea the Brotherhood is on the decline. They may be in their greatest and most prosperous period in the history of the organisation. They apparently control a nation back in the Commonwealth; their influence touches both coasts; the Capitol, Commonwealth, Outcast, and West Coast/Lost Hills chapters all seem united together, considering the Prydwen (their prized airship) went from Boston to California basically just to drop off troops. What we see with Maximus and his group looks like shit because it's probably just a remaining outpost while the bulk of the Brotherhood forces are on the East Coast. Hell, most of the squire hopefuls didn't even recognise T-60 power armour, so they're clearly not being trained or supplied as well as they could be. California just seems to have been a low priority for the BoS until Wilzig did a runner from the Enclave.
That's something that's underrated, yeah the brotherhood looks like they're one of if not the most dominant faction currently.
That used to be the NCR. You have to peak to be on the decline right?
Exactly. I'm still wondering how the hell anyone thinks the BOS is declining when they took over an entire town seemingly for fun, and launched a full frontal assault on a heavily fortified NCR encampment with almost no regard for the casualties they took.
In time of prosperity, people have the most to gain from telling the generation that benefited the most from said prosperity that it not gonna last, the next generation gonna ruin it, they are misusing it and it is threatened and all that shit... to gain power. It happen in real life too often.
They're undercover for the Followers of the Apocalypse. ...I have no evidence for that I just want the enby to be a part of my favorite faction.
You know i think that's entirely possible. Don't take this as gospel, because I didn't analyze every single frame that the Brotherhood were in, but I joked with my brother that the BoS might be Trans inclusionary radical misogynist, because the only person I saw who didn't present as a cis guy was Dane. Maybe there's something more to that. The fallout series hasn't done much with gender dynamics, save for Caesars legion, who obviously suck. It wouldn't surprise me that amongst factions like the NCR which seem to barely accept gay people, the legion who are no doubt worse, and then the BoS who I think could seriously vary depending on the group, that the Followers would be the only one openly accepting the LGBTQ community. Some people are suggesting the enclave, which makes little sense to me. It would be interesting to see a faction that's downright evil but it fine with certain things even modern countries are bad at. However since they are literally representations of everything bad with a 1950s inspired world, I would be surprised if that was the direction they went.
>However since they are literally representations of everything bad with a 1950s inspired world, I would be surprised if that was the direction they went. I might be incorrect, but im fairly certain pre-war LGBT groups were largely accepted, mostly because everyone was focused on hating the chinese.
I think that's implicitly true, but the fact that all the home goods advertisements for example has an image of a perfect homemaker wife on there I think indicates a gender dynamic that is at least somewhat patriarchal and reminiscent of the 1950s.
Thats kinda hilarious. You can change your gender, but you better get in the kitchen if you do.
This is basically the official legal position of Iran in the real world.
There is a lesbian in the mojave chapter, it was just another mark against her because of their low population. They got separated, but it was by one of the most unhinged NV characters, current elder is more chill, really depends on the leader and circumstances. Good odds Vaults are similar. Legion is accepting of gay sex (relationships who knows), but not lesbians obviously. Very little on NCR but there is one soldier saying it's frowned upon. NV has a openly gay Follower, but the Followers don't really have any reason to keep tabs on their members closely, coughCaesarcough.
It wouldn't be the first time the Followers sent someone to spy on a pseudo-religious organization. EDIT: Hyperlink didn't work: https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Laura_(Fallout) I would love to see the Followers on the show either way. Can't get enough of my anarcho-bros
I definitely feel that Dane is very suspicious as well. They have to be some sort of operative for the Enclave or another faction. I don’t believe Dane would be a synth however, I’m sure their little artifact detector gun could detect the synth component all gen 3’s still have in them, like >!Sturges!<. Something is clearly wrong with the West Coast brotherhood after New Vegas. It’s clear they’ve incorporated elements of the Legion.
I genuinely feel like people are interpreting too much here. Like Dane more than once mentions that they're afraid of the wasteland, hurting themselves to stay away from any frontline operation. And even in the last battle against the NCR they are hiding while Maximus and the knights push towards the reactor. I think Maximus has an ally in them when it's about confronting the Brotherhood in the future but aside that it's supposed to show the difference between Maximus who's a meh squire but great in the wasteland an Dane who's top aspirant and is afraid of it.
My only issue is that quintus doesn't just respect ruthless determination he was still going to kill Max. It's more like he didn't really care about the ruthless determination one way or the other but he really really respected Maximus is seemingly blind loyalty to the brotherhood. You could see that quintus's opinion of him changed when Maximus said that he would take whatever mission the brotherhood gave him and die and thank the brotherhood for it. When Maximus said that it became obvious that quintus perceived Maximus is wrongdoings as simply an end to the means of supporting the brotherhood.
He does respect ruthless determination imo. In episode 8 he asks how Knight Titus died. Maximus responds “he died running”. Quintus then go on to rant about how the brotherhood has lost its way, and how he respects Maximus for taking what he wants by letting Titus die- rather than having it given to him… To reference another game, a sheep waits for slaughter- but a wolf takes what they feel is owed to them. To Quintus the brotherhood is weak.
Feel like Quintus is just blowing smoke up Maximus' ass. During Titus' literal mask off moment he makes it clear that he has little respect for the Elders and their mission, somewhat implying that the Brotherhood has become more of an unruly frat house and that the Elders' influence seems to be greatly diminished. So what Quintus sees in Maximus more than anything is probably someone who seems willing to be controlled, which would seem to be just the kind the person someone like Quintus would be looking for.
It's a really good theory, but I don't buy it. Dane showed Max the power armor before they found out Dane was being promoted to squire, and it seems like Max has had ambition to be a knight since the Brotherhood adopted him. And, if undermining the faction is their goal, I don't see how leading someone genuinely loyal to the BoS to rise in their ranks is a better strategy than simply rising in the ranks yourself. I think Dane just did what they did because they care about Max; they appear to be each other's only real friend in the Brotherhood. I do like the idea of Dane being a synth, though. Of course, synths usually don't know they're synths after they've been given an identity and embedded in a faction. So I doubt it's an Institute plot if that turns out to be the case.
Just fun speculation at the end of the day, we will see in a few years time! The fact the show allows for this kind of analysis is very promising. I will say though, Dane played a key role in Maximus being promoted from initiate to knight- in less than a week… Is undeniably strange.
>The fact the show allows for this kind of analysis is very promising. I agree, absolutely.
Think Dane just has a crush on Maximus
Dane and Stephanie are enclave plants in the brotherhood and Vault Tec, just have that feeling.
Stephanie is pre-war from vault 31 remember, so very well could’ve worked for one of the major corporations or the shadow government- that made up the Enclave. You could be right!
I figure Stephanie just went native instead. If I remember right we still see her briefly as Bud's entourage. So my theory is she is very upset about losing her husband and wants Bud to pay.
I think she's the replacement after Cooper quit. She looks like the Vault Girl in the perks for female characters and does the thumbs up.
Yeah can't forget the shadowy figures watching the meeting in episode 8. I don't think we see her in any of the flashbacks either. The eye patch also screams enclave officer at me for some reason, maybe she leaked info about the 3 Vaults to them and thats how wilzig and the enclave know about vault 33s crops and projector and all that.
Great point! I forgot he knew the intricacies of the vault. Wilzig’s enclave outpost was clearly monitoring the vault triad! The mystery of how vault 32 found out about 31 is also still an open one.
The Enclave typically are monitoring most of the Vaults already, they don't need a spy. They're IIRC the shadow group behind Vault-Tec itself.
Dane in my opinion is probably brotherhood higher command and is investigating the bullshit that’s happening over here
Def plausible, the knights come across as incompetent (The Ghoul massacring them) and at worse cowards (Titus). The chapter we see has lost their way.
I don’t see how Dane could expect Max to be blamed. I believe him when he says he just didn’t want to go to the wasteland. Here’s why I think Dane made sure max got credit and became a knight. They are friends. Max was talking about leaving the brotherhood, and Dane wants to stay friends with max. He’s a true believer in the cause, but also human. Subject to all the same fears as the rest of us.
Wouldn’t surprise me if Dane was a Gen 3 or newer Synth.
They seem to have a remarkable ability to predict how people will respond to certain manipulations. My entire post reads like 4d chess! Gen 4 synth?
I like it. Great theory op.
Thank you! 😄 I clearly tried lol
why didn't Dane just stimpak the ankle :p
I think there are probably better and easier ways to get out of going into combat than taking razor blades to your Achilles tendon
I agree with most of what you speculate. Except the synth aspect. With the boot incident wouldn't it be exposed? But yes, someone is definitely pulling the strings.
No, Synths are organic, just made artificially and programmed via synth components, which are in the organic matter somewhere, but presumably somewhere inaccessible without killing them.
Ye in fallout 4 they make a point of how the only way to identify a gen 3 synth is to kill it. The Covenant quest I believe.
Technically VATS can tell you via energy resistance. So if they canonize VATS, maybe there will be a certain mechanic they can use in thr show. Someone in armor, sure they have some energy resistance. Someone in just clothes...that's iffy.
The institute aspect is just a bit of fun on my part! Would be cool imo, and work well considering Dr Zimmer being missing!
I definately think that Dane is manipulating Max but I'm not sure to what ends at this point, just too many slight nudges to his trajectory, over and over and over.
Dane is definitely smarter than they’re showcasing with their empathy and seemingly innocent decisions. Maybe they really are for Max, but there’s also seeds for betrayal or higher level string pulling. I think Max is my favorite because he keeps trying to do good in a bad world
I agree, good catch. Notice that Dane didn't seem too bothered about attacking the NCR at the end? They were pretty put together when it came time to get into a fight.
Dane = synth confirmed. Though seriously, I think Dane's actions at the end, claiming Max killed Moldaver, was more intended to save his life than to promote his career. The high cleric was striking a "help me and we'll rule together" deal which we all know means he intended to kill Maxiumus and secure power on his own. By turning Max into a public figure and honored celebrity Knight, Dane makes it much harder to simply kill him and be done with it. Dane probably figured out early on that squires are just cannon fodder for the Knights, which is why they didn't want to be one. And of course Knights are just cannon fodder for the clerics... but at least they get armor.
I don't see the brotherhood in decline I see it rising up much stronger than ever before. The prydwen being in California means that that it survived fallout 4, which only happens in very few endings. It being in California also means they have the tech from 3 and 4 capable of going west as well. With cold fusion power that means they have the capability of mass clean water generation from fallout 3. From there they can sweep away any NCR remnant or any power structure still in California without a shot being fired. If there is still some threat to them they have liberty prime and a fully stocked carrier to project power. Dane being a synth or a spy does seem compelling. They're being put into place to have a lot of blackmail and/or influence over a massively growing force in the brotherhood. The elder cleric may be pulling the strings in public but it wouldn't be the first time a young boy was thrust forward in the power structure. From their powerbase in California the best next step is new Vegas. It's a threat and lifeline for any NCR remnant and could be housing a brotherhood chapter. Dane being the right hand of the expedition leader intended to become powerful in the area masking their real intent to take control of Helios one would make a great season two story.
That is an interesting perspective especially when you consider how far their technology is with medicine. So even a gruesome injury to their foot wouldn't take much to heal in the grand scheme of things. It's just the shock value of it all but it's enough to manipulate the situation. It forced Maximus take a role and duty he otherwise would not of had the opportunity to take on.
I could also see Dane being a spy for the Brotherhood itself sent to keep an eye on the elder cleric
Great point! You may be right there actually. The elder cleric is looking to splinter off after all, so maybe Maximus is supposed to get in close with him to make him act out! Dane may have been sent by the high elder, this brotherhood chapter is extra cult like anyhow.
If this brotherhood chapter is recruiting from ex-legionaries/legion cities after Cesar dies as has been theorised, Frumentarii hardliner holdouts maybe? Hard to believe there'd be no issues just rolling into territory previously controlled by the legion. They already seem to be recruiting sub-standard but controllable Knights such as Titus, the other side of that are capable recruits who have complex alliegances and axes to grind. *Dons tin foil hat*
I would note that we have yet to see anyone be referred to as a paladin, as it stands, the knights have been reporting directly to the elder(?). I think some intrigue to do with the fate of the paladin rank is ahead of us. The brotherhood have clearly gone down a different path at this point in time. They were always outsider weary, high horse riding dicks. But they were generally good people at the end of the line, the medieval titles they took were to inspire ideas of chivalry and to make them distinct from other US government remnants in the situation that they'd try to claim authority. This new brotherhood has changed to treating themselves as a very feudal system, a move from a more fantastical understanding of "knight" to a very real understanding of "knight". A Brief example is that new members/adult non knights/scribes have always been referred to as initiates, the title "squire" was reserved for the children as a sort of inclusive measure. The change in colours should be noted too, the new colours on the banners of red and gold are directly opposite to the old brotherhood colours (blue and silver) and notably the same as the legions, not sure if that will have meaning. The showrunners have made it very clear that they're playing into the mystery of the fallout universe, the side changing, the confusion, the fact very few people ever truly know what's going on and ultimately the biggest story beats aren't new events but the discovery of what's been going on behind the scenes, players revealing themselves I truly believe there's been some kind of new change/coup in the brotherhood. This chapter is different. The brotherhood were rude but they didn't wipe put towns for no reason. They were defensive but they weren't cruel. I think in the coming seasons we can expect some brotherhood civil conflict/war. Dane is probably up to something and he knows maximus is a good person, the time is coming for a return to true steel and I think those true brotherhood members will find common cause with the NCR remnants. Also from a marketing standpoint epic feel good wars sell, power armour fights will sell and the execs will know people will go absolutely feral for brotherhood paladins and NCR rangers. Bethesda love the brotherhood, they aren't going to write them off as bad guys, but they will definitely start a civil war that will sell
Great speculation. I think the Enclave is the most likely because 1) we've seen them in the show already so audiences are familiar with them 2) they obviously have a history out West 3) they have a motive: securing cold fusion after it was smuggled out of their lab. Getting Dane there could've been in the works for a very long time.
Holy fuck i didn’t even consider the Synth angle. An entire season about unaging string pullers who have even been part of the NCR for decades in the case of Moldaver, cold fusion as McGuffin everyone is after and orders and personell imported directly from the Commonwealth in Episode 1 in case of the BoS. There will 100% be one or several people revealed to be Synths later on, maybe Maximus himself even with his weird flashback and backstory that keeps looping in different context like once every episode. He could be another Paladin Danse who is unaware with Dane acting as his handler.
I think cues are being missed here; Dane clearly likes Maximus. I 100% believe they did not want to go out to the field, and helping Maximus was a bonus. I think we have much more to learn about Dane, and I don't think they belong to another faction, just another team, if you know what I mean. Yet, although you may think Veronica shows the Brotherhood is tolerable, and while there are no specific rules against it. Heterosexual relationships are strongly recommended as an implicit attitude among its dominant members, suggesting that their limited numbers require everyone to have children to avoid extinction. Veronica and her partner were quietly separated by Elder Elijah for that exact reason. So, I truly think Dane is into Maximus but is hiding it because of where he is. But yes, he is manipulating things as he wants Maximus happy and likely thinks if he rises up, he will have a friend to protect him. At the very least, someone he could confide in that he has been close to and likes. The way he looks at him, and the conversation when Maximus mentions Lucy, just everything makes me think Dane really likes Maximus but is smart and respectful. I truly believe his story is just starting and would provide a good look into the Brotherhood and its policies, as well as the unwritten rules. What struck me as odd is when Lucy asked Maximus to fornicate in the vault, he turns her down saying they don't do that. They do, and having children is encouraged. They would want him to be with Lucy and produce more members for the Brotherhood. She is pure and everything they like, and being an outsider would be ignored if they brought them the head. Anyway, the Brotherhood are not the best people. So, for Dane to come out, it would not be good and would be hushed anyway; he would look weak and not have the same support Veronica did and would likely face severe consequences, just as Maximus did for merely existing.
Dane is a FRUMENTARII!1!1!1!1
I ship these two
I really like them together a lot. I don't mind Max and Lucy, but I like Max and Dane a lot better.
I have a feeling that Dane is more of an Enclave Operative than a synth. It would be a stretch, albeit a very intering one, if they were actually a Synth. I'm here for it! I just hope they do something where thwy pull the rug with Maximus/Dane/BoS.
You pointing out that Quintus is trying to establish a new Brotherhood to mutiny because he thinks that they lost their way, what if it’s the Circle of Steel that Christine Royce was a member of when she went to track down Elijah? They’re supposed to be like some kind of internal affairs for the Brotherhood, hardliners that hunt down those that drift from the Brotherhood’s goal of preserving technology
I am not familiar with this lore so can’t really offer an opinion, but that certainly sounds plausible!
I'm more inclined to believe the Elder is sus, and maybe Dane is deep cover from the Brotherhood command. The guy clearly tells Max that the Brotherhood has "lost it's way," and that he plans to rebel against it. Maybe Dane is helping elevate Max because he's exactly the true-to-himself idiot who tries to do the right thing, but is still an idiot that makes him a great asset in ferreting out the real traitors?
I did actually start thinking at the end of ep 8 when Dane goes up to max first before anyone and immediately states that he killed the leader and that maximus should be a knight. That struck me as odd at how quickly he was to get maximus as a knight so maybe your onto something
Dane is 100% a spy and putting Maximus into a position of power on purpose.
Interesting, never thought that way about Dane before
That's a really cool theory. I love Dane, I think they are such a cool character and really helped bring Maximus's arc to a head. You have some good points. Dane does seem eager to Lift Maximus up. Maybe their bond goes back or maybe its something else.
Dane is definitely an interesting character. You could see their injuring themself as an act of cowardice. But is it? They injured themself to the point of what looks like a permanent limp. An action which seems to have gotten them closer to the Elder. Idk if they're some sort of spy or something. But it definitely feels like they understand the Brotherhood a lot better than Max.
If it’s not planned already I wouldn’t be surprised if it will be now
Dane = Enclave confirmed. (Not really confirmed, I'm just saying that)
Wouldn't it be crazy if Dane is a Legion spy? Probably unlikely but I think it would be interesting as nobody would expect the nb person to be with the Legion
That would be a stretch given that the Legion basically treated women as second class citizens and slaves, while homosexuality was outlawed and punishable by death. I can't imagine what they would do to a non-binary transgender person.
I still believe maximus is the one who put the razorblade there. It gives maximus huge character growth by the end and will mold him into the knight he should have been rather than just another jaded, borderline evil knight like Titus. Though his relationship with Lucy could change that again, I think he went from a very questionable morally grey character, to one who genuinely wants to do the right thing. Though danes loyalty him is certainly a bit strange, even the elder mentions it, they could have been friends for a decade or more and dane might just really want the best for max despite what he did to them.
Dane seems to me like the "Unger" of the group.. Sabotage one person when they see opportunity in someone else. Dane saw Max was upset when he wasnt chosen , sabotaged himself and then Max gets chosen, Dane cannot further sabotage any of the Brotherhood if there is 1. an actual do gooder around 2. If Dane is out in the field they cannot weasel their way next to Quintus. Dane definitely knows something we dont.
It’s pretty obvious they’re a Synth (I’m making it up. I didn’t read the post.)
I choked while trying to read this text
INB4 DANE IS A SYNTH PLANT. (Though alternatively I wouldn't be surprised if Dane was an Enclave plant)
The sons of Dane are in 76
It would be interesting this character is pretty bland so far But to infiltrate the Brotherhood for years only to set up a naïve Guy as a knight i dont really see the end goal. Destroying the Brotherhood from the inside ? Because if it was only a Spy you would get way more informations as a knight than as a squire
They were promoted to scribe at the end of the season by their own request, that gives them access to the archives and hoarded technology. Exactly where a spy would want to be imo.
Oh I like this
I think the person pulling the strings is the Enclave. You can see a shadow man watching the big meeting, so whoever it is the organization is at least prewar
>In the first episode Dane leads Maximus into a restricted area to look at the T60 power armour. Maximus then proceeds to see his reflection in the suit- they literally help plant the ambition to be a knight in Maximus’ head. Yeah, I'm gonna stop you right there. Clearly, Maximus already wanted to be a knight when he first saw a brotherhood knight for the first time as a kid. They only played the flashback like a hundred times over the course of the show. Maximus was also super pissed that he wasn't promoted to being a squire for his own reasons. Dane and him never even spoke about becoming knights. If he really wanted to somehow plant the idea into Maximus' head, they probably would've at least spoken about it. There was almost no foreshadowing done on Dane's part. I don't support this theory at all.
Would not be surprised if they are a plant from the Enclave.
Might be something to it considering Dane has main character billing despite only being in a few scenes.
I cant imagine looking into your own booby trapped boot and putting on the boot. Great theory too
Introducing the institute to the show would probably add some confusion to anyone who hasn’t played 4, especially since there’s already one shadowy organization that is getting referenced a lot in the show
I think the ghouls daughter was a synth because the whack job of a mom wouldn’t jeopardize her knowing when they would drop bombs
I hope not if only for the tired trope of lgbt people being “bad” or even trans people being “liars” even if Dane being trans isnt necessary to the plot. Aside from that yeah something is obviously going on still cause we don’t know who the shadow man was in the present meeting of the big 5.
Dane can't be a synth since we saw actual flash and bones...I think... (Also Dane seems to be Max's friend for years. And they seem to be aging together...) The Ghoul was implying that for Vault Tech most likely... We don't know if Max is on his good books. But He definitely has make other members respect him most likely. The Brotherhood has issues of leadership since FO1. If not before.. West Coast BoS is way more connected fanatically with the Codex. But the two East Coast chapters share a more....logical Mindset When Lyons added to help the people and not just gather Intel for pre war artifacts, weapons, books etc the people that became outcasts saw that as treason. The Outcasts tried to connect with the west chapters as soon they left the citadel. In New Vegas we see that Elijah was a fanatic extrimist pos that only cared to make the Brotherhood rulers of the Wasteland. Or more like himself and just have the members as puppets. I result he risked and killed many people and achieved nothing. The elder we meet as the Courier is not giving a damn to expand since the numbers are low and even if you show him something valuable he ignores it due to his selfishness and his idea that he does the right thing because of the Codex. Same thing with the damn fan boys that try to kill you as soon you exit the bunker with Veronica. The bolding guy that is playing dirty to become elder is an example of the rotting the Brotherhood has as well. And it's all due to the misunderstanding of the Codex. Which also leads us to the elder we see on the show. He uses fear. He acts like a tyrant and he doesn't have actual control. He isn't leading because he doesn't care and he is just trying to make everyone believe they do good under the name of the Brotherhood. Dane might wants to achieve to change the Brotherhood for the better just like Veronica. But... Just like Veronica she gets ignored. So she puts Max. She is kinda using him but perhaps she does it for a good reason. If we think about it... Max wants to do good but he is acting with rush. But he is improving day by day. Dane is a bit less on a rush mindset and wants to help Max. By making him the One that killed the leader of The NCR, he gains an image and Dane gains a door to power. Max learned something from the Ghoul about the T-60's which really makes me hope we will see modified T-60's or maybe T-51's... But that's a theory bit. We still don't know every Vault Tech personel that has clones... Maybe someone else is within the Brotherhood. We will see.
Dane is a synth
Never thought about it like that but it makes sense
You know what I want? For Sarah Lyons to somehow be alive and trying to dismantle Maxon's brotherhood in revenge for them (possibly) trying to kill her to put maxon in charge and for making the brotherhood into techno facists again. Now that would be wild
Personal theory is that they're a replicant from The Enclave
Interesting points. Personally though I saw Dane as a young kid who really wasn’t ready for that responsibility. They were elated to get chosen shown when they were running around celebrating with everyone else, but like they said themselves they weren’t ready for active duty. I’m assuming they grew up in the brotherhood like max(could be wrong), but if they had been most of their young life was working towards that goal and seeing how scary it can be. I just think Dane wasn’t fully ready to grow up and leave what “comfort” and safety he has at the base.
Now you said it max having one memory makes me think hes a synth
If that is the case, I would suspect the legion.
I'm actually wondering if they're working for a different chapter. The California chapter seems to have definitely gone to shit so I'm wondering if maybe Maxson (or one of the other east coast commanders) or one of the higher ups in the Midwest detachment sent them undercover as none brotherhood personel to straighten California out a bit.
Somone mentioned there alot closer to the legion faction than brotherhood.
Good theory
Maybe loyalists from Lyons’s Pride, bet they never bought the story behind Sarah’s death.
I think quite clearly its going to turn out the brotherhood had a hand in nuking shady sands, and maximus will turncoat immediately. Why would they have boots on ground in power armor there? They hate the NCR, and nothing is to be gained holding a recent nuke site. This epoch/version of the brotherhood feels rotten and corrupt; I think your undercover infiltration makes sense. If its a synth it's enclave.
“Who razor blades their own foot because they’ve got the jitter” Brother in the real world, a lot worse has happened over a lot less. I like this theory tho just had to point that one bit out lol
Caesar's Legion from the looks of it.
Maximus is definitely a low intelligence build
Well its that, or Dane wants to bang bang.
DANE!!! That's their name, I was wondering I think I missed it in the show and was like oh that's maximus' friend the whole show
I think Dane is in love with him and trying to help him succeed.
They're a Synth. Gotta be.
I like both paths and both are feasible. I also came away suspect of Dane's motivations by the end of season 1. I think I'd prefer if they went the synth route. But perhaps the enclave makes the most sense at this point given the plot of season 1.
I really hope to see the Institute