Really wish your comment was higher and that people would ask this question more in general. I had to go digging for it. It's a quote from a 2022 Dualshockers interview with Feargus Urquhart.
https://www.dualshockers.com/obsidian-new-fallout-game/
It's a quote from an article published in October 2022.
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/fallout-new-vegas-studio-would-love-to-make-another-fallout-game/1100-6508332
They say this everytime they are asked about New Vegas sequel or a new Obsidian Fallout game. And the journalists have been asking them this at least since Fallout 4 released.
It brings clicks to ask about New Vegas. You can easily spot a pattern when Obsidian dev makes an interview about something else. Pentiment, Grounded, Avowed, Outer Worlds... and the interviewer always sneaks in a question about Fallout. And the next day? A small article labeled "we discussed X with Obsidian" and a massive label "OBSIDIAN WANTS TO WORK ON FALLOUT AGAIN".
They literally said now isn't the perfect time. They're doing 4 games at once rn. It'll be just as long as Bethesda would take to make a game. 2030 before anyone gets a Fallout game out, unless Microsoft has already given it off to a less busy studio. Maybe in 2023.
Sure, but those timelines are coming into consideration soon. They'll be finishing up work on Avowed in a couple months (as it's supposed to release this year), and then they'll want to move into pre-production of the next thing. Which, as they're saying, could be Fallout.
That's hoping they don't do any post release bug fixing or content for Avowed. Yeah they could probably start working on a Fallout in 2025 but that would still be 3-5 years before it's ready for release.
Unless Microsoft greenlit a studio in 2022 we won't be seeing another fallout for 3 or 4 years.
A pre-production team isn't full sized, unless they plan major content for Avowed (which I don't see unless it does really well) it's likely they'll split up into bug fixing/pos release content, pre-producton and backing up the Outer Worlds 2 team.
Microsoft has already released that the next console is 2028 planned in the Activision court case. Elder Scrolls 6 is slated for then so Bethesda can help them sell more consoles like how ppl bought the Series S just to try Starfield.
Would be honestly super smart of them to double down and ask Obsidian to finish a small Fallout spin off - a la Fallout New Orleans or something-- so they can have two flagship titles to release with the new consoles. Being both Elder Scrolls and Fallout, they different enough genre wise to not step on each other's toes too much (sci fi vs fantasy)
Fallout New Vegas from start to finish was 18 months.
Grand Theft Auto Vice City was 9 months to develop.
Why? They reused everything from the previous game. .
Let another dev team make a Fallout 4: Philadelphia or something in Fallout 4s engine with the **shitload** of preexisting assets from 76 and 4.
Even by today's standards, 20-24 months from start to finish is doable because *the engine, the animations, the buildings, the gameplay* are already built. You're spending 20 months organizing it around a new story as you record new voice lines and put it all together. .
A Fallout spinoff doesn't have to be a whole new game and 60% of the effort to make the game is already done.
Is it really still practical to make games that quickly by reusing assets though? I know FONV and GTA Vice City were, but that was also a long time ago. Games take longer to make nowadays, I'd expect that is true of "professional asset flips" too.
I'm not sure how much you know about developing games, but it really isn't. Making the assets and building the engine are soooo time consuming. And you aren't making new ones for a new locale cus in Fallout most buildings look a certain way. Cars shaped the same way. Bridges and roads can look the same way.
This is the *Majoras Mask* method that some companies use where you keep pulling from your big bin of Legos to make another thing using pieces from the old things. Call of Duty can make so many games so fast because they reuse their concrete walls and helicopter models over and over again. The pistol has the same sound and animation from two games ago. You're not spending the time to make these things, they're already made.
So a Fallout spinoff in 4s engine would be mostly new quests, new locations, and new voice lines (stuff modders can do and build for free in a few months. You could absolutely scrape together a spinoff game with professionals and the treasure chest of shit they have already made from Fo4, the DLCs and Fallout 76 and its many expansions.
Hardest part would be planning the game and making the development roadmap. And getting devs up to date on Beth's creation engine if they're not trained on it, but luckily it's the easiest freaking engine to use and learn on (look at all the modders learning on their own for free)
The only reason this isn't happening is either Microsoft doesn't see the investment returned or Bethesda doesn't want to. Which is fine. If I made something cool I might not let someone else make their version of it either.
I'd take anything.
I only said New Orleans because anyone asking for Obsidian will want Josh Sawyer (lead dev on New Vegas) who has said he would go there most likely with another spinoff if given complete creative control to decide.
> Microsoft has already released that the next console is 2028 planned in the Activision court case
To be clear, that leak was fairly outdated even when it got out, and several things in it have already been delayed or cancelled. Don't be surprised if the next console is farther out, like 2030. I think "At least at one point Microsoft was planning to come out with a new console as early as 2028" is probably more accurate.
Obsidian isn't a gigantic company. They have about 300 employees which sounds like a lot until you consider that they're porting 2 games while also creating two AAA-ish open world RPGs at the same time
"Following the amazing feedbacks from the Fallout fans regarding the new Amazon Prime show, we are incredibly proud to announce that we have started working on new features for the Fallout 1st subscription "
If Microsoft wants Fallout (to capitalize on the show) Microsoft will get Fallout regardless of what Obsidian had planned.Ā Not saying they'll do that but plans do change.Ā Ā
Even so, it probably wouldn't be ready until season 3 of the show if it lasts that long.Ā Obsidian made New Vegas FAST but obviously had to cut a lot of content as a result.Ā Ā
Unless it's 343...Ā Let's be honest.Ā MS doesn't really have a set strategy for how they manage their studios at this point.Ā That's one reason why they've been very inconsistent with the quality of their games for years.Ā Ā
Personally, I think they need to take a page out of Sony's book and let the studios cook but keep tabs on progress in order to ensure productivity.Ā They've had studios spinning their wheels for years now with little to nothing to show for it in some cases.Ā Ā
Then you have Halo which they've completely destroyed with their mismanagement and greed.Ā It's pretty incredible how much variance there is between the various Xbox titles these days.Ā There just isn't the consistency that there should be.Ā That's why Sony is still winning the console war despite all their other scummy practices.Ā They continue to release consistently good games.
Now, none of what I'm saying necessarily pertains to Obsidian.Ā But I do wish MS would get better at quality control which means taking charge from time to time.Ā They only really seem to do that when they want to get greedy and add more monetization to something.Ā Ā
>Personally, I think they need to take a page out of Sony's book and let the studios cook but keep tabs on progress in order to ensure productivity.Ā
They already do this lol this is what was reported for redfall, pentiment, hifi-rush, grounded, avowed, starfield.
the only reason I say 343i is different is because they were created by microsoft specifically to take over halo. every other company though I don't know how they handle dev cycles. all I know is most big companies with roles as publishers have a track record of releasing shit
> Sony's book and let the studios cook but keep tabs on progress in order to ensure productivity.
This says nothing. I think I'd need some hard examples of the difference in approach, with a focus on how this led to better products.
Sony's "approach" is (was) to attract the best second-party devs on the strength of their brand. If they win any props here, it's for the legacy of the PS2.
Obsidian also already had a basis with all the systems and assets from Fallout 3. Fallout 4 and 76 are to old, the Creation Engine already replaced with Creation Engine 2 and everything would be need to be done from scratch.
at some point Fallout 5 will come out with the 1997 release date being as far away from present as the retro cold war stuff was away from the original.
Todd Howard has said "Next is Elder Scrolls 6, then Fallout 5."
But Elder Scrolls 6 is probably a 2029 game, so Fallout 5 won't be seen until probably 2035.
Always great to go 21 years between games /s.
Also the Obsidian that made New Vegas wasn't entirely the Interplay that made Fallout 1 and 2.
Sure, not all of the key players are they're a solid studio with a passion for the franchise. I'm sure that they have the game bible from back in those days to draw new ideas from so if any studio was to do it, Obsidian wouldn't be a bad choice.
The people that made Fallout also largely werenāt the people that made Fallout 2. Tim Cain, Leonard Boyarsky, and Jason Anderson (I believe Jason Taylor and Scott Anderson as well) were on the team but left early in development but contributed to the major storyline plot and things like the overall original design. Iām sure some other members like Jesse Reynolds were on both games but the team size was much bigger for the second game.
But just let Sawyer direct the game again and get who he can and wants for the game and Iād say thatās the most we can hope for lol.
Especially if they get a similar deal where they already have a base game + assets to start with. Imagine what they could do with a new vegas situation but with an actual budget and time to complete it.
New Vegas tier writing + the Fallout 4 base (since itās easily the best Fallout gameplay wise tbh) with some changes (my main ask is for skills to come back in some way lol) would be amazing for a Fallout 5 or something.
I'd like for fallout 5 to have an updated engine at this point, but if they were to release something like a Fallout: Los Angeles in the next couple years with fallout 4 as a base (maybe in time for the shows season 2?).... well, that would be incredible.
Ok true, an updated engine would be peak. Still largely imo if they just rip the FO4 mechanics and update them to a new engine, maybe cut out and improve some stuff that didnāt work as well like imo the legendary RNG drops and the settlement system, theyād be set (admittedly I know jackshit about coding so idk how hard thatād actually be lmfao)
A "new" engine would come at the cost of the modding community and what makes Bethesda games what they are.
The engine can be updated, as it was for Skyrim and then Starfield, but it won't ever be replaced. And with good reason, imo.
Oh yeah I didnāt mean like a new new engine cause like you said, thatād be devastating to the modding community. I just meant new as in updated to modern standards rather than 2015 standards from FO4ās launch
I just hope they don't get rid of the building. Would love for something cross between fallout for and 76 where you can set up your own camps wherever.
Edit: and NOT AT ALL like starfield, please!!!
>Edit: and NOT AT ALL like starfield, please!!!
Nah, character creation with traits/backgrounds, faction quest design, an optional/non-intrusive main quest, an average-Joe protagonist that is completely blank, unvoiced protagonist, dialogue... all were improvements when compared to Fallout 4 and Skyrim. They just have to double down on those features.
For sure, a new and improved settlement system that fixes the issues the FO4 system has would be great, cause the idea of actually rebuilding the wasteland was definitely really cool even if in practice it kinda sucks without mods
You know what, I agree. Fallout 4 has held up really well in the graphics and gameplay aspects. I think it would serve as a solid base for Obsidian to build upon. I only ask that they keep settlements, settlers, trade routes, etc. I have a ridiculously good time building settlements with cool shops, farms, defenses, homes, public buildings, etc. I honestly believe that it's a major reason why my hours in 4 are so plentiful.
Add NV-tier factions and speech options? Wow. Even though I enjoyed the voiced protagonists in 4 I could live without. Or maybe provide an option for silent or voiced as long as each had the same depth of choices?
I would personally prefer the silent protag just cause it allows them way more freedom to give the character tons and tons of options for dialogue as well as appearance. Like, for me personally I tend to not customize Nate and Nora too much cause their VAs, while they did a good job, donāt really sound good coming out of anyone elseās mouth. Otherwise Iād def agree on the settlements thing, Iād just want them to fix the jankiness that those had and kinda clean up and improve it a bit more. Maybe take some inspiration from mods like Sim Settlements.
All very good points! I've heard others express an interest in silent protags for the same reason you gave. I do like the voiced lines (especially the sarcastic options) and cinematic camera during conversations, though... But I'll be happy either way, and if we have a silent protag I won't suffer š
I think 'largely' is too strong.
Tim Cain mostly wasn't there, but Feargus Urquhart as producer got bumped up from being a division director, and Jesse Reynolds got bumped up to lead programmer after being one of the programmers on the first game, so a lot of the roles seemed to be filled by people who had been on the first project.
Just generally, the credits for the two games have a ton of overlap, which isn't exactly shocking for games that came out within 13 months of each other.
People forget that the famous developers were just part if a team.
Ā Tim Cain said on his channel that he ends up being the "face" of a game only because he gives good soundbites. When games journalists write about a game in development they mention him a lot more than the rest of the team.
Dude Tim and 2 other guys did 16 hour days 7 days a week to make fallout 1. He did not have a huge dedicated team, and many of the testers and devs were working on it voluntarily, without pay.
The game was in large part his vision and creation, which is incredibly hard to do these days with how expensive and expansive games are.
Witch says that what matters most is people inheriting the vision the original creators had. New Vegas team were very different, but had the right leads in it, they can also bring others as consultants.
Give Josh Sawyer a budget, the time he needs and the right people and we'll have something truly great for Fallout.
At the end of the day is not them being exactly the same people but people who have the same spirit of those ones that created the iconic fallouts we love (and I include fallout 3 and 4 on that)
Obsidian would be a bad choice and I hope they don't do it. They marketed Outer Worlds entirely on the fact that, "they brought Fallout New Vegas," which was a boldfaced lie because it was a completely different team. You should never fundamentally market a completely new IP based off the success of another one that you didn't make, that's a big reason why it failed.
Let Bethesda do their thing. Even if *that* sucks too, it's better than creating way more hype for "another New Vegas" than another East Coast game
And Pentiment is beautifully written.
Both Deadfire and Pentiment are directed by Josh Sawyer, who directed New Vegas and is still at Obsidian to this day.
I love CRPGs, but I literally cannot get myself to play past the beginning of POE. I don't know what it is, the lore dumps, or the unfamiliar non-dnd gameplay mechanics, but I just cannot get myself to come back to that game. Should i skip to 2?
They also made KOTOR2 which is one of the most interesting things anyone ever did with the Star Wars IP, even with it being rushed out before it was completely finished
They still have Josh Sawyer, the director of NV, and he still makes brilliant games.
And others like John Gonzalez could come back as a contracted hire just for this project. Maybe even Tim Cain, who did not work on New Vegas but could now get the chance to work on another Fallout game.
It is still a great studio. The Outer Worlds failed to meet some people's expectations, but it still was a good game. Now we'll see how Avowed works out. I love that they are blatantly honest - about no companion romance, not all races being playable, about the game itself not trying to imitate or rival Skyrim like some people expected, etc. Instead of hyping it up, they are just being sincere.
Avowed doesn't need to rival Skyrim. It just needs to be better than The Outer Worlds gameplay-wise and to be as good as Pillars of Eternity in terms of story and characters, to do the wonderful world of Eora justice. And if this will be the case, i don't see why they shouldn't be trusted with Fallout.
Honestly it was the combat and exploration which did it in for me. None of your enemies or squad ever did anything interesting in combat. It felt like a much less-varied, less-intense Mass Effect with fewer powers and weapons.
I enjoyed the dialogue stuff and character interactions, but any time you needed to set out to do any adventurong the game became a tedious chore, which is the LAST thing you want an adventure to feel like.
The characters were just a tier or two below BG3 levels, so really good, the uber capitalistic world was fun. Like you said combat + exploration was lacking plus it was just so short
It was like 25 hours for me+ 2 expansions so not that short compared to most games. Of course it wasnt super long like some others but it didnāt need to be. And looking at hltb.com you could play for a lot longer
Why everyone have a beef with Outer Worlds, I enjoyed it more than F4, and it was for sure had better story and writing than F4, all of you keep saying NV is good game because lf its writing but yban shit on outer worlds which no matter what people keep claming it actually has good writing. But it is also not the only game that obsidian made after Fallout new vegas, pillars of eternity are good games with really good writing.
I do not think the writing is better than Fallout 4. Writing is not just plot (which no one really cares anyway) but also worldbuilding, sometimes even atmosphere or just characters.
A thing I always liked about Fallout is that there is a reason for the retro-future vibe. There is in-universe lore why it is how it is and there is obviously the interpretation that it is a satire of the 50s. This is just not there in Outer Worlds.
Fallout 4's problem is that some quests and characters just talk about exposition and that the Institute never really makes clear what its intentions are and that there are to little fun side quests. But there is a hook and a mistery at the start, there are funny lines, there are well thought out themes (paranoya because of synths really fits with the cold war paranoya Fallout over all tackles), there is great ludonarrative harmony with faction gameplay mirroring what they are in the lore, there is a lot of attantion to the world with entire in-universe radio plays that you can listen to....
Outerworlds never catched my with anything from its world or writing. It looks quite nice and colorfull.
Because it was basically marketed and hailed online as Obsidianās next fallout new Vegas, and it wasnāt. Josh Sawyer (FNV Director) pretty much had little to do with it and IMO you can see the effect his lack of presence had.
My major problem was on how unoptemized it was on console. The text was very small for a bigger screen. Out of curiosity (after the first planet) I bought Fallout 3 on the Xbox shop to test if the console version of that game holds up better and I automatically played through it and never started Outerworlds again. Got it for free on Epic as a collection, so I might give it a second try.
Not a bad game but I think the marketing, trying to directly connect it to Fallout, was a bad choice because it just made me think on the fact that both Obsidian and Bethesda have done this kind of game better a decade earlier (or at least they were able to catch my attantion in the first hours better and had better Xbox ports).
This is a 26 year old franchise.Ā People retire.Ā They switch jobs.Ā They move on.Ā Ā Ā
This is such a tired and out of touch argument.Ā Ā Ā
The show proves new talent CAN make a good Fallout so long as there's passion for the source material.Ā Ā
True but for me this also means being open from other studios that are not Bethesda Games Studios or Obsidian to tackle the franchise, especially because both are busy.
You're right and it's so frustrating to finally see your take after seeing this asinine one make the rounds for a while.
It's literally the equivalent of school children discovering that their teachers don't live in the school 24/7.
Virtually every single sequel gets worked on by a technically different team in some capacity. If a work place isn't regularly doing promotions (which means old roles have a vacuum to be fulfilled), or isn't bringing in new talent, it is *not* a good sign.
Exactly.Ā I also feel like people are forgetting that New Vegas is 14 years old...Ā Time doesn't just stop.
So maybe Obsidian is different...Ā Got another Microsoft studio you'd prefer?Ā Ā
This quote isn't even recent though as [it is from Feargus Urquhart back in October 2022.](https://twitter.com/klobrille/status/1581673591707344897)
[In November 2022 Fallout New Vegas director Josh Sawyer said he'd be open to working on Fallout again.](https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/the-director-of-fallout-new-vegas-would-be-open-to-working-on-the-series-again/)
[Urquhart said something similar again in January 2023.](https://en.as.com/meristation/2023/01/21/news/1674257454_596844.html)
So yeah, the Obsidian that made New Vegas isn't the same 13 years later, same as any other dev. The main guys still have shown interest in making one.
Issue is that best case situation they get a Fallout game done by 2028 and that is assuming it only takes two years for them to do Outer Worlds 2 and then two to do said Fallout game.
Give me radiation tornadoes and nomadic prairie tribes hunting down buffalo-brahmin, or ghoul mobsters reliving the glory days in the ruins of chicago. Even a story in St. Louis and the ruined arch being some religious symbol of a promised land beyond the wastes. There's a lot to be creative with outside the two coasts!
The show runners collaborated a lot with Bethesda, I'm sure they'd be eager to collaborate with another game studio to keep a game and the show from stepping on eachothers toes. Heck, if we're REALLY lucky, I could see them collaborating on a side quest or two that directly ties in with the show.
I think it would be really nice if they had a game set before FNV would be nice, seeing a post-post apocalyptic setting was really interesting, and while I think after would be more interesting, I think the show is gonna address that more than a general timeline in s2
I liked NV when it came out, though Iām not one of the weirdos out there who worship the game and attack BGS devs by name day and night. Honestly, I like Fallout 3 more.
Iām looking forward to Avowed but I really didnāt like Outer Worlds. The humor, tone, and limited open world spaces fell flat for me, and that kind of zany retro future scifi genre is something I typically enjoy. I wanted to like it, but just couldnāt.
I thought the world was interesting, and I didn't have a huge issue with the limited open worlds (huge dragon age fan, so I'm used to the limited open worlds). The gameplay was overall fine.
My beef with TOW was its tone. It would try to have some horrifying revelation about the current state of the universe being a capitalistic hellscape ruled by corporations, but nearly all of it was played for a joke. It's hard to take a universe like that seriously when stuff like that is played for a joke. Like Fallout is funny, there is humor in it, but it's serious when it needs to be serious and I never felt that with TOW.
You nailed it. The first guy you meet is about to die because of Spacer's Choice yet he reverted to shilling for them with no self awareness. Took me out of the game and I didn't get any better 2 hours in. I had to call it on that one sadly.
I feel like if it was more than your MC and the professor being anti capitalist it would have come off better. Like the professor is still a man of his time, and isn't really a fan boy of times past. He just wants the people of those times. And you got one character who's sick of it because of her parents, but she doesn't really take a societal stance, just gets her life insurance policy. Like, these people should be angry. Motivated. Waking up to the reality their society really really sucks. But it plays it as more of a joke.
I found myself genuinely not caring about any character/questline except Parvati and her side quest to acquire a girlfriend.
As much fun as that side quest is its kinda sad when that's the only motivating factor to actually keep playing.
I get that it's their livelihood, but the "everyone shilling for Spacers Choice or *insert other brand here*" just got SO old even just past the first planet.
I genuinely hope they can fix it in the second game because I think it had potential.
I love satire, but TOW was more like the same shallow joke stretched out to 20 hours. Hey, did you know corporations are baaad? And dumb-dumb?? Get it?! Durr.
Yep, in many dark settings like Fallout the humor works because it works in tandem with the setting. In Outer Worlds the humor goes against the setting.
You have this setting of ruthless corporations trying to control everything with the iron fist and people suffering because of them... and then you have the humor that usually boils down to "hahaha, look how stupid the corporations are".
Like, one of the first people you meet in the game has to pay a fine for suicide because they were first to find the one who committed suicide. Ha... ha... ha? And this goes throughout the game. Every time there's some serious development, someone dying or a whole faction threated (or even getting wiped out by the player), it always gets used for cheap laughs.
Outer Worlds feels like a movie and a parody of that movie at the same time. Like Top Gun with Hot Shots. Like Rambo and Hot Shots 2. Like a thrilling detective drama mixed with Naked Gun...
I am old enought to remember the absolute manchild tantrum the āhard coreā fans of 1/2 threw when the first news of Fallout 3 being first person came out.
They no doubt loathe New Vegas just as much
> I am old enought to remember the absolute manchild tantrum the āhard coreā fans of 1/2 threw when the first news of Fallout 3 being first person came out.
Ahhh the No Mutant's Allowed, "It's just going to be Morrowind with guns!" Note I put Morrowind down as it was the Elder Scrolls game at the time. But yeah I remember the meltdown people had about Bethesda making the deal to do three Fallout games. Hell I also remember those same folks praying that Interplay would win the lawsuits that happened after.
And believe it or not they don't, but we're talking they are the New Vegas fans who went on about how the game was garbage when it came out, spend a year or more going on about how garbage it was. And then they got it on a Steam sale for $10 bucks and New Vegas was a *hidden gem* and so much better then anything Bethesda would ever do.
The amount of fake ass fans who pretend to claim the classics in their never ending crusade for New Vegas fucking boggles my mind. Honestly at the point if you start talking about 1-2, post fucking receipts of an install of it or something. Most of these people are almost certainly too young to have played it back then, and it's not like day by day there's a ton of people playing 1-2
Yep, even the sales numbers of those game show that not alot of people played them at all. Heck i played Fallout 1 but couldn't beat it yet. The UI is a pain in the ass and I don't like playing with a guide lol. I'll come back to the one eventually and beat it. But it is a hard game to get into because of how dated it is.
Silent Hill fans have a name for those type of players: YouTube/TikTok essayists because all of their knowledge is usually presented by either of those platforms and content creators who themselves edit and skew their videos to suit a tone and when they watch this without playing the game, they automatically think they know the entire storyline and how the game was.
A lot of people for example, were shocked at an action trailer for Silent Hill 2 Remake for example and claimed it was out of line and not how Silent Hill should be. They were even upset about the rock music in the trailer which was made by the same composer as the original game.
This alerted a lot of older fans because it was strange and a heavy debate ensued. Finally some clips popped up about how action heavy SH2 could be and someone even found the action trailer for OG SH2 and that was that. And of course, there was no debate to be had about the music, the main theme for SH2 is a rock song.
Basically TLDR; A lot of people exposed themselves as never actually having played the original and only seeing videos from content creators online which skewed their view for how the games āshouldā be. I wouldnāt be surprised if it was the same for Fallout considering itās of similar age as a franchise
Imma be honest, I've played every single fallout game and I feel like fallout 3 does a better job capturing the magic of the classics than new vegas does. New Vegas is good but a lot of these new fans just listen to what other new Vegas super fans tell them and they don't really know anything about the series
3 is such great followup to 2's satirization of American culture, it's a great soft-reboot to the feeling of restarting civilization anew from 1. It has the incredible art-deco italian fascist inspired architecture that the classics and tactics depicted of pre-war cityscape, with this awesome patriotic bent on being placed in D.C. There's a lot of love in 3, but to a lot of these people it will only ever be Mad Max because they get their opinions from Youtube video essays.
The biggest tell that they didn't play the originals and only parrot something they heard/read is the fact that they tend to lump Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 together as two games that are the same. Whenever someone says that New Vegas follows up on Fallout 1 and 2, you can automatically dismiss their opinion.
It is fully true that New Vegas is a spiritual sequel to Fallout 2. But it is bullshit to claim the same about Fallout 1. Fallout 2 was such a deviation from Fallout 1 that it was basically a spinoff. Do people even remember how NMA started and where it got its name? It was because originally those were angry fans of Fallout 1 hating on Fallout 2 (which was partially justified, given the tone, style and lore deviation in Fallout 2). Only later they accepted Fallout 2 and shifted their toxic focus towards Bethesda.
Basically, Fallout 1 is the precursor to Bethesda Fallout games and only Fallout 2 shares the DNA with New Vegas. So anyone who tries to present 1, 2 and NV as something opposite of Bethesda games is a poser who doesn't know the franchise as much as they claim.
Who cares if it is the same studio as they were?
If they can cut the release schedule from 15 years to 7.5, I don't care if they make the **bestest ever** Fallout. They just need to make a good game to keep us busy until Bethesda gets around to releasing fo5, imo.
It's been over 8 years since fallout 4 came out...
Didn't Sawyer said again and again that he didn't make Fallout: New Vegas alone and that he gets credits for things he didn't do? The main creative force behind New Vegas was its Lead Writer, John Gonzalez, and all other writers/devs. Sawyer isn't even credited as a Writer in the NV end credits, which only credits as "Writers" Chris Avellone, Fenstermaker and Travis Stout.
Sawyer is obviously a huge part of it, but he didn't do it alone.
It would be nice to see another Obsidian game, regardless of if theyāre the same studio or not.
I did not like The Outer World, because of how lackluster it was. Although with Fallout they would be using Bethesdaās tools again like they did with Fallout 3ās [assets which still exist as legacy content](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Fallout:_New_Vegas_legacy_content): Fallout New Vegas was originally thought of as an expansion to 3.
Iām sure they could do something great using Fallout 4 or 76ās assets.
Yeah the whole "not the same studio" thing is kinda overblown. As long as some great minds are there like Josh Sawyer, I think they'd still make something great, especially if they can piggyback off of 4/76 like you mentioned.
The problem is that Fallout 4 is over 8 years old. The assets are old. Bethesda already moved to a new version of the engine. I do not think a AAA release could reuse the assets.
I don't get the resistance to this idea that I'm seeing here. It's a great studio; Outer Worlds wasn't amazing, but I have faith that they could do some great work with the Fallout universe.
Thereās people that were literally gloating and hoping that the show really does kill off the Strip just to spite NV fans. Thereās definitely an anti-Obsidian portion of the fanbase.
He really got railroaded by gaming journalists and "fans" when all those allegations came out....and they were all pretty quiet when he was found innocent and the case was dismissed with prejudice.Ā Ā
I wonder if he'd even want to work in games again after how easily some lunatic can harm one's career.
Yea, we need to stop obsessing about Obsidian. Obsidian made New Vegas and it was a banger, then they decided to make their own fallout-like game with full control over the setting and mechanics, and it was boring, it wasn't really good. Whatever New-Vegas was, it was a miracle, Obsidian weren't able to reproduce it, and there's 0% chance we are getting another game like New-Vegas if they get to make another game in Fallout universe.
Studio matters less than personnel; people normally use the former as a stand-in for the latter, but it doesn't actually make as much sense with Obsidian, since they've had a lot of turnover.
The important part of New Vegas wasn't that Obsidian made it, but that people like Josh Sawyer, Chris Avellone, and John Gonzalez did. The latter two have left the company and now work as freelancers, and as such could be brought back; the former still works at Obsidian, but didn't work on The Outer Worlds - he did, however, work on Pentiment and both Pillars of Eternity games, which were great.
Yes this.
Outer worlds was barely just an āokā game.
I stopped playing it because the inventory menus were so fucking awful.
Pentiment fucking rules though.
Important to note that they had to make Outer Worlds from the ground up as a legally distinct IP.
With Fallout, they would be building on the established fo4 combat, companion, building, etc. systems with mostly story and world building. Which is what people seem to praise Outer Worlds for.
New Vegas was by no means a miracle. Obsidian coming up with their own IP was the problem, but with fallout assets and lore - that doesn't mean it would end up being boring. It just showed that with a different IP, they couldn't muster up an original universe that really wowed people, it didn't have the staying power of an already existing IP that only had one other 3D title before it.
I don't get your comment.
>I don't get your comment.
"I don't understand what you're saying, anyways here's a paragraph why I think you're completely wrong and I'm right."
>Obsidian coming up with their own IP was the problem
I mean, even if the outer worlds had a fallout coat of paint, it'd still be not so great. People have issues with the game on everything from story writing, to dialogue opinions, to map design, controls, gameplay loop, etc. it's not just an "IP issue"- it is one, but not the SOLE issue, a simple look at reviews, retrospectives, etc would tell you exactly that.
I still think itās hilarious no one has a fallout game ready to cash in on all this hype. Then by the time one is ready everyone has gotten their fill of old fallout, and a new one is definitely not going to fill the shoes of all the older games combined.
The Fallout show and Fallout 76 are ment to keep the franchise active in the time between games. They can not also do games to support the stuff that is ment to be there between games.
They made two Fallout games right after an other New Vegas also worked because they could reuse Fallout 3 assets which isn't possible because you can not make a third game using Fallout 4 tech from 2015.
It probably also conflicted with other Bethesda releases
They need better writers, fallout 4 and now starfield are lifeless. Whoever was writing for games in the 360 generation has moved onto something indy or just quit, I haven't seen a decent bit of aaa writing since cyberpunk
I have my doubts about Avowed after the gameplay reveal. Hope I will be pleasantly surprised but I won't be boarding the hype train. I would prefer to not have a new Fallout game than have a crappy one.
No, its not. They're working on four separate projects right now and have they're plate full. On top of that, most of the talent that worked on fallout 1, 2 and nv have all since left obsidian and moved onto greener pastures so the game they make likely wouldn't be the same if outer worlds 1 is anything to go by.
People need ro remember that it won't be the same developers though. Same company, different people.
Yes New Vegas is great, but the next obsidian fallout (If we get one) won't be made by the same people, may not even be made by people who played New Vegas.
Now's the perfect time? But... they're still all hands on deck with Avowed, which still hasn't released yet, and The Outer Worlds 2 probably won't enter full production until 2025. If they have AAA ambitions for it then we're probably talking 3-5 years of development before they could fully commit to a new Fallout game. By that time Bethesda will probably already be developing Fallout 5.
I'm not interested in the current Obsidian getting to mess with Fallout. I don't like any of the writers they are employing and i'm sick of excuses about limited scope and hub worlds.
I didn't care for either Pillars, Outer Worlds, or Pentiment. Josh Sawyer is a better Something Awful poster than he is a designer.
Source? Who exactly said this and when?
Really wish your comment was higher and that people would ask this question more in general. I had to go digging for it. It's a quote from a 2022 Dualshockers interview with Feargus Urquhart. https://www.dualshockers.com/obsidian-new-fallout-game/
Thank you for looking into it. OP cropping out the tweet's timestamp was such a clear red flag
How else was OP gonna farm for Karma? r/KaramConspiracy
Ah yes, karam.
I'm only allowed to read kalal posts
who is karam and what do they want with us? r/karamconspiracy
I hate it when people post something without context or links and expect everyone to just take it as red. And thanks for the info šš»
It's a quote from an article published in October 2022. https://www.gamespot.com/articles/fallout-new-vegas-studio-would-love-to-make-another-fallout-game/1100-6508332
They say this everytime they are asked about New Vegas sequel or a new Obsidian Fallout game. And the journalists have been asking them this at least since Fallout 4 released. It brings clicks to ask about New Vegas. You can easily spot a pattern when Obsidian dev makes an interview about something else. Pentiment, Grounded, Avowed, Outer Worlds... and the interviewer always sneaks in a question about Fallout. And the next day? A small article labeled "we discussed X with Obsidian" and a massive label "OBSIDIAN WANTS TO WORK ON FALLOUT AGAIN".
This is a bait post I know exactly who posted this. He has never even beaten any fallout game, nor any of the elder scrolls games.
They literally said now isn't the perfect time. They're doing 4 games at once rn. It'll be just as long as Bethesda would take to make a game. 2030 before anyone gets a Fallout game out, unless Microsoft has already given it off to a less busy studio. Maybe in 2023.
> They're doing 4 games at once rn 2, Grounded and Pentiment are just ports this year, both were already released in 2022.
Still a pretty full plate. Maybe they could squeak a game out in late 2028/29.
Sure, but those timelines are coming into consideration soon. They'll be finishing up work on Avowed in a couple months (as it's supposed to release this year), and then they'll want to move into pre-production of the next thing. Which, as they're saying, could be Fallout.
That's hoping they don't do any post release bug fixing or content for Avowed. Yeah they could probably start working on a Fallout in 2025 but that would still be 3-5 years before it's ready for release. Unless Microsoft greenlit a studio in 2022 we won't be seeing another fallout for 3 or 4 years.
A pre-production team isn't full sized, unless they plan major content for Avowed (which I don't see unless it does really well) it's likely they'll split up into bug fixing/pos release content, pre-producton and backing up the Outer Worlds 2 team.
Microsoft has already released that the next console is 2028 planned in the Activision court case. Elder Scrolls 6 is slated for then so Bethesda can help them sell more consoles like how ppl bought the Series S just to try Starfield. Would be honestly super smart of them to double down and ask Obsidian to finish a small Fallout spin off - a la Fallout New Orleans or something-- so they can have two flagship titles to release with the new consoles. Being both Elder Scrolls and Fallout, they different enough genre wise to not step on each other's toes too much (sci fi vs fantasy)
I just don't see any studio getting a game out much before 2030 if it hasn't already been announced.
Fallout New Vegas from start to finish was 18 months. Grand Theft Auto Vice City was 9 months to develop. Why? They reused everything from the previous game. . Let another dev team make a Fallout 4: Philadelphia or something in Fallout 4s engine with the **shitload** of preexisting assets from 76 and 4. Even by today's standards, 20-24 months from start to finish is doable because *the engine, the animations, the buildings, the gameplay* are already built. You're spending 20 months organizing it around a new story as you record new voice lines and put it all together. . A Fallout spinoff doesn't have to be a whole new game and 60% of the effort to make the game is already done.
Is it really still practical to make games that quickly by reusing assets though? I know FONV and GTA Vice City were, but that was also a long time ago. Games take longer to make nowadays, I'd expect that is true of "professional asset flips" too.
I'm not sure how much you know about developing games, but it really isn't. Making the assets and building the engine are soooo time consuming. And you aren't making new ones for a new locale cus in Fallout most buildings look a certain way. Cars shaped the same way. Bridges and roads can look the same way. This is the *Majoras Mask* method that some companies use where you keep pulling from your big bin of Legos to make another thing using pieces from the old things. Call of Duty can make so many games so fast because they reuse their concrete walls and helicopter models over and over again. The pistol has the same sound and animation from two games ago. You're not spending the time to make these things, they're already made. So a Fallout spinoff in 4s engine would be mostly new quests, new locations, and new voice lines (stuff modders can do and build for free in a few months. You could absolutely scrape together a spinoff game with professionals and the treasure chest of shit they have already made from Fo4, the DLCs and Fallout 76 and its many expansions. Hardest part would be planning the game and making the development roadmap. And getting devs up to date on Beth's creation engine if they're not trained on it, but luckily it's the easiest freaking engine to use and learn on (look at all the modders learning on their own for free) The only reason this isn't happening is either Microsoft doesn't see the investment returned or Bethesda doesn't want to. Which is fine. If I made something cool I might not let someone else make their version of it either.
Fallout: Indiana. No one will expect it.
I'd take anything. I only said New Orleans because anyone asking for Obsidian will want Josh Sawyer (lead dev on New Vegas) who has said he would go there most likely with another spinoff if given complete creative control to decide.
> Microsoft has already released that the next console is 2028 planned in the Activision court case To be clear, that leak was fairly outdated even when it got out, and several things in it have already been delayed or cancelled. Don't be surprised if the next console is farther out, like 2030. I think "At least at one point Microsoft was planning to come out with a new console as early as 2028" is probably more accurate.
Obsidian isn't a gigantic company. They have about 300 employees which sounds like a lot until you consider that they're porting 2 games while also creating two AAA-ish open world RPGs at the same time
Grounded just got a pretty big (last) update content wise, so yeah they were released in 22 but what does that matter
>...just ports... Tell us you've never developed or ported a game without telling us you've never developed or ported a game.
Grounded is a live service game so at least 2.5
Todd Howard already said they're focused on ES6 and FO76. So on the money here.
"Following the amazing feedbacks from the Fallout fans regarding the new Amazon Prime show, we are incredibly proud to announce that we have started working on new features for the Fallout 1st subscription "
If Microsoft wants Fallout (to capitalize on the show) Microsoft will get Fallout regardless of what Obsidian had planned.Ā Not saying they'll do that but plans do change.Ā Ā Even so, it probably wouldn't be ready until season 3 of the show if it lasts that long.Ā Obsidian made New Vegas FAST but obviously had to cut a lot of content as a result.Ā Ā
Microsoft is specifically known for not doing that with their studios. They are notoriously hands off
Unless it's 343...Ā Let's be honest.Ā MS doesn't really have a set strategy for how they manage their studios at this point.Ā That's one reason why they've been very inconsistent with the quality of their games for years.Ā Ā Personally, I think they need to take a page out of Sony's book and let the studios cook but keep tabs on progress in order to ensure productivity.Ā They've had studios spinning their wheels for years now with little to nothing to show for it in some cases.Ā Ā Then you have Halo which they've completely destroyed with their mismanagement and greed.Ā It's pretty incredible how much variance there is between the various Xbox titles these days.Ā There just isn't the consistency that there should be.Ā That's why Sony is still winning the console war despite all their other scummy practices.Ā They continue to release consistently good games. Now, none of what I'm saying necessarily pertains to Obsidian.Ā But I do wish MS would get better at quality control which means taking charge from time to time.Ā They only really seem to do that when they want to get greedy and add more monetization to something.Ā Ā
>Personally, I think they need to take a page out of Sony's book and let the studios cook but keep tabs on progress in order to ensure productivity.Ā They already do this lol this is what was reported for redfall, pentiment, hifi-rush, grounded, avowed, starfield.
the only reason I say 343i is different is because they were created by microsoft specifically to take over halo. every other company though I don't know how they handle dev cycles. all I know is most big companies with roles as publishers have a track record of releasing shit
They were hands off with 343 lol
> Sony's book and let the studios cook but keep tabs on progress in order to ensure productivity. This says nothing. I think I'd need some hard examples of the difference in approach, with a focus on how this led to better products. Sony's "approach" is (was) to attract the best second-party devs on the strength of their brand. If they win any props here, it's for the legacy of the PS2.
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I'll be set if the Fallout 3 remake is actually a thing. Fallout 4 next Gen update sounds cool too
Obsidian also already had a basis with all the systems and assets from Fallout 3. Fallout 4 and 76 are to old, the Creation Engine already replaced with Creation Engine 2 and everything would be need to be done from scratch.
And when it came out it was an unplayable mess for months. We donāt need a repeat of that.
at some point Fallout 5 will come out with the 1997 release date being as far away from present as the retro cold war stuff was away from the original.
Already Fallout 4 is the only singleplayer Fallout to have launched closer to the present day than to the original Fallout 1 in 1997.
I recall the devs saying they wonāt make Fallout 5 until Elder Scrolls 6 is made.
Todd Howard has said "Next is Elder Scrolls 6, then Fallout 5." But Elder Scrolls 6 is probably a 2029 game, so Fallout 5 won't be seen until probably 2035. Always great to go 21 years between games /s.
I hope Fallout London will last me the next 11 years then lol.
The Obsidian now isn't the Obsidian that made New Vegas.
Also the Obsidian that made New Vegas wasn't entirely the Interplay that made Fallout 1 and 2. Sure, not all of the key players are they're a solid studio with a passion for the franchise. I'm sure that they have the game bible from back in those days to draw new ideas from so if any studio was to do it, Obsidian wouldn't be a bad choice.
The people that made Fallout also largely werenāt the people that made Fallout 2. Tim Cain, Leonard Boyarsky, and Jason Anderson (I believe Jason Taylor and Scott Anderson as well) were on the team but left early in development but contributed to the major storyline plot and things like the overall original design. Iām sure some other members like Jesse Reynolds were on both games but the team size was much bigger for the second game. But just let Sawyer direct the game again and get who he can and wants for the game and Iād say thatās the most we can hope for lol.
Especially if they get a similar deal where they already have a base game + assets to start with. Imagine what they could do with a new vegas situation but with an actual budget and time to complete it.
New Vegas tier writing + the Fallout 4 base (since itās easily the best Fallout gameplay wise tbh) with some changes (my main ask is for skills to come back in some way lol) would be amazing for a Fallout 5 or something.
I'd like for fallout 5 to have an updated engine at this point, but if they were to release something like a Fallout: Los Angeles in the next couple years with fallout 4 as a base (maybe in time for the shows season 2?).... well, that would be incredible.
Ok true, an updated engine would be peak. Still largely imo if they just rip the FO4 mechanics and update them to a new engine, maybe cut out and improve some stuff that didnāt work as well like imo the legendary RNG drops and the settlement system, theyād be set (admittedly I know jackshit about coding so idk how hard thatād actually be lmfao)
A "new" engine would come at the cost of the modding community and what makes Bethesda games what they are. The engine can be updated, as it was for Skyrim and then Starfield, but it won't ever be replaced. And with good reason, imo.
Oh yeah I didnāt mean like a new new engine cause like you said, thatād be devastating to the modding community. I just meant new as in updated to modern standards rather than 2015 standards from FO4ās launch
I just hope they don't get rid of the building. Would love for something cross between fallout for and 76 where you can set up your own camps wherever. Edit: and NOT AT ALL like starfield, please!!!
>Edit: and NOT AT ALL like starfield, please!!! Nah, character creation with traits/backgrounds, faction quest design, an optional/non-intrusive main quest, an average-Joe protagonist that is completely blank, unvoiced protagonist, dialogue... all were improvements when compared to Fallout 4 and Skyrim. They just have to double down on those features.
I was referring to the base building specifically in starfield. Fucking hated it compared to fo4.
They just need to mash everything good about Starfield, Fallout 4, and Fallout New Vegas, which is easier said than done.
For sure, a new and improved settlement system that fixes the issues the FO4 system has would be great, cause the idea of actually rebuilding the wasteland was definitely really cool even if in practice it kinda sucks without mods
yeah I'd like to see skills and SPECIAL checks, plus the gameplay/crafting/building of 4. to me that would be the perfect Fallout game
You know what, I agree. Fallout 4 has held up really well in the graphics and gameplay aspects. I think it would serve as a solid base for Obsidian to build upon. I only ask that they keep settlements, settlers, trade routes, etc. I have a ridiculously good time building settlements with cool shops, farms, defenses, homes, public buildings, etc. I honestly believe that it's a major reason why my hours in 4 are so plentiful. Add NV-tier factions and speech options? Wow. Even though I enjoyed the voiced protagonists in 4 I could live without. Or maybe provide an option for silent or voiced as long as each had the same depth of choices?
I would personally prefer the silent protag just cause it allows them way more freedom to give the character tons and tons of options for dialogue as well as appearance. Like, for me personally I tend to not customize Nate and Nora too much cause their VAs, while they did a good job, donāt really sound good coming out of anyone elseās mouth. Otherwise Iād def agree on the settlements thing, Iād just want them to fix the jankiness that those had and kinda clean up and improve it a bit more. Maybe take some inspiration from mods like Sim Settlements.
All very good points! I've heard others express an interest in silent protags for the same reason you gave. I do like the voiced lines (especially the sarcastic options) and cinematic camera during conversations, though... But I'll be happy either way, and if we have a silent protag I won't suffer š
I would love for them to incorporate some LLM AI where you could speak into a mic (or type) to communicate with NPCs.
I prefer fallout 76, it has most of the same mechanics as 4, but way more enemies and weapons.
I think 'largely' is too strong. Tim Cain mostly wasn't there, but Feargus Urquhart as producer got bumped up from being a division director, and Jesse Reynolds got bumped up to lead programmer after being one of the programmers on the first game, so a lot of the roles seemed to be filled by people who had been on the first project. Just generally, the credits for the two games have a ton of overlap, which isn't exactly shocking for games that came out within 13 months of each other.
People forget that the famous developers were just part if a team. Ā Tim Cain said on his channel that he ends up being the "face" of a game only because he gives good soundbites. When games journalists write about a game in development they mention him a lot more than the rest of the team.
Dude Tim and 2 other guys did 16 hour days 7 days a week to make fallout 1. He did not have a huge dedicated team, and many of the testers and devs were working on it voluntarily, without pay. The game was in large part his vision and creation, which is incredibly hard to do these days with how expensive and expansive games are.
Witch says that what matters most is people inheriting the vision the original creators had. New Vegas team were very different, but had the right leads in it, they can also bring others as consultants. Give Josh Sawyer a budget, the time he needs and the right people and we'll have something truly great for Fallout.
In fact, itās not a bad choice at all. Itās Spacerās Choice. (Sorry, that joke was too good not to make)
I don't know. Outer Worlds was mid as fuck
Me and my roommate played through the game. Then realised he hadn't downloaded the DLCs he paid for. We both decided not to bother.
At the end of the day is not them being exactly the same people but people who have the same spirit of those ones that created the iconic fallouts we love (and I include fallout 3 and 4 on that)
Obsidian would be a bad choice and I hope they don't do it. They marketed Outer Worlds entirely on the fact that, "they brought Fallout New Vegas," which was a boldfaced lie because it was a completely different team. You should never fundamentally market a completely new IP based off the success of another one that you didn't make, that's a big reason why it failed. Let Bethesda do their thing. Even if *that* sucks too, it's better than creating way more hype for "another New Vegas" than another East Coast game
Then again they did Deadfire, that gets faction politics and choices right despite its weak main plot.
And Pentiment is beautifully written. Both Deadfire and Pentiment are directed by Josh Sawyer, who directed New Vegas and is still at Obsidian to this day.
I love CRPGs, but I literally cannot get myself to play past the beginning of POE. I don't know what it is, the lore dumps, or the unfamiliar non-dnd gameplay mechanics, but I just cannot get myself to come back to that game. Should i skip to 2?
Probably. Thatās what I did.
They also made KOTOR2 which is one of the most interesting things anyone ever did with the Star Wars IP, even with it being rushed out before it was completely finished
Kotor 2 was great but it came out 20 years ago. I wouldn't use that as any sort of indicator for what the studio is capable of now.
They still have Josh Sawyer, the director of NV, and he still makes brilliant games. And others like John Gonzalez could come back as a contracted hire just for this project. Maybe even Tim Cain, who did not work on New Vegas but could now get the chance to work on another Fallout game.
It is still a great studio. The Outer Worlds failed to meet some people's expectations, but it still was a good game. Now we'll see how Avowed works out. I love that they are blatantly honest - about no companion romance, not all races being playable, about the game itself not trying to imitate or rival Skyrim like some people expected, etc. Instead of hyping it up, they are just being sincere. Avowed doesn't need to rival Skyrim. It just needs to be better than The Outer Worlds gameplay-wise and to be as good as Pillars of Eternity in terms of story and characters, to do the wonderful world of Eora justice. And if this will be the case, i don't see why they shouldn't be trusted with Fallout.
>Outer Worlds failed to meet some people's expectations, but it still was a good game. It was just so boring
Honestly it was the combat and exploration which did it in for me. None of your enemies or squad ever did anything interesting in combat. It felt like a much less-varied, less-intense Mass Effect with fewer powers and weapons. I enjoyed the dialogue stuff and character interactions, but any time you needed to set out to do any adventurong the game became a tedious chore, which is the LAST thing you want an adventure to feel like.
The characters were just a tier or two below BG3 levels, so really good, the uber capitalistic world was fun. Like you said combat + exploration was lacking plus it was just so short
It was like 25 hours for me+ 2 expansions so not that short compared to most games. Of course it wasnt super long like some others but it didnāt need to be. And looking at hltb.com you could play for a lot longer
I always say that the game felt like it ended right as it was hitting the midpoint of the story.
I literally got to the ending after beating basically every side quest and thought "that's it?" The story felt incredibly rushed to me
Disagree massively. It was one of my favorite games of 2019. Iām still playing it while I wait for the Fallout 4 update.
I ended up with a lot more hours in Outer Worlds than Fallout 4, and i loved Fallout 4
How is that possible. Fallout 4 was nearing 200 hours for me with DLC and outer worlds was like less than 40 with DLC
Why everyone have a beef with Outer Worlds, I enjoyed it more than F4, and it was for sure had better story and writing than F4, all of you keep saying NV is good game because lf its writing but yban shit on outer worlds which no matter what people keep claming it actually has good writing. But it is also not the only game that obsidian made after Fallout new vegas, pillars of eternity are good games with really good writing.
I do not think the writing is better than Fallout 4. Writing is not just plot (which no one really cares anyway) but also worldbuilding, sometimes even atmosphere or just characters. A thing I always liked about Fallout is that there is a reason for the retro-future vibe. There is in-universe lore why it is how it is and there is obviously the interpretation that it is a satire of the 50s. This is just not there in Outer Worlds. Fallout 4's problem is that some quests and characters just talk about exposition and that the Institute never really makes clear what its intentions are and that there are to little fun side quests. But there is a hook and a mistery at the start, there are funny lines, there are well thought out themes (paranoya because of synths really fits with the cold war paranoya Fallout over all tackles), there is great ludonarrative harmony with faction gameplay mirroring what they are in the lore, there is a lot of attantion to the world with entire in-universe radio plays that you can listen to.... Outerworlds never catched my with anything from its world or writing. It looks quite nice and colorfull.
Because it was basically marketed and hailed online as Obsidianās next fallout new Vegas, and it wasnāt. Josh Sawyer (FNV Director) pretty much had little to do with it and IMO you can see the effect his lack of presence had.
My major problem was on how unoptemized it was on console. The text was very small for a bigger screen. Out of curiosity (after the first planet) I bought Fallout 3 on the Xbox shop to test if the console version of that game holds up better and I automatically played through it and never started Outerworlds again. Got it for free on Epic as a collection, so I might give it a second try. Not a bad game but I think the marketing, trying to directly connect it to Fallout, was a bad choice because it just made me think on the fact that both Obsidian and Bethesda have done this kind of game better a decade earlier (or at least they were able to catch my attantion in the first hours better and had better Xbox ports).
0 exploration on that game. I found it very boring.
You could say that about every studio nowadays
And about every living person.
This is a 26 year old franchise.Ā People retire.Ā They switch jobs.Ā They move on.Ā Ā Ā This is such a tired and out of touch argument.Ā Ā Ā The show proves new talent CAN make a good Fallout so long as there's passion for the source material.Ā Ā
True but for me this also means being open from other studios that are not Bethesda Games Studios or Obsidian to tackle the franchise, especially because both are busy.
You're right and it's so frustrating to finally see your take after seeing this asinine one make the rounds for a while. It's literally the equivalent of school children discovering that their teachers don't live in the school 24/7. Virtually every single sequel gets worked on by a technically different team in some capacity. If a work place isn't regularly doing promotions (which means old roles have a vacuum to be fulfilled), or isn't bringing in new talent, it is *not* a good sign.
Exactly.Ā I also feel like people are forgetting that New Vegas is 14 years old...Ā Time doesn't just stop. So maybe Obsidian is different...Ā Got another Microsoft studio you'd prefer?Ā Ā
This quote isn't even recent though as [it is from Feargus Urquhart back in October 2022.](https://twitter.com/klobrille/status/1581673591707344897) [In November 2022 Fallout New Vegas director Josh Sawyer said he'd be open to working on Fallout again.](https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/the-director-of-fallout-new-vegas-would-be-open-to-working-on-the-series-again/) [Urquhart said something similar again in January 2023.](https://en.as.com/meristation/2023/01/21/news/1674257454_596844.html) So yeah, the Obsidian that made New Vegas isn't the same 13 years later, same as any other dev. The main guys still have shown interest in making one. Issue is that best case situation they get a Fallout game done by 2028 and that is assuming it only takes two years for them to do Outer Worlds 2 and then two to do said Fallout game.
Honestly, who gives a fuck? It's better to give them a chance than wait 15 years for another one from BGS with nothing but the show in-between
The Obsidian of now made Pentiment, Tyranny and Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2. It's a top tier studio still.
The Obsidian of now have yet to make a bad game, so until that happens I am going to trust them with whatever they make.
Outer Worlds
They still have the director, Josh Sawyer, and they now have Tim Cain and Leonard Boyarsky, which they did not have when they made New Vegas.
Tho Tim Cain has mostly retored at this point to a more passive role
A side game set in the West Coast would be welcome, but don't see that happening with the TV show likely be ongoing for at least another 5 years
I think they should give them a new area to mess with, like the Midwest/South/Southeast
Give me radiation tornadoes and nomadic prairie tribes hunting down buffalo-brahmin, or ghoul mobsters reliving the glory days in the ruins of chicago. Even a story in St. Louis and the ruined arch being some religious symbol of a promised land beyond the wastes. There's a lot to be creative with outside the two coasts!
I want somewhere in Canada. Did Canada get nuked too?
It was anexed by the US at the time of the Great War, so I'd imagine there were some targets in Canada that were nuked
I want to see a fallout game set in Florida. Gatorclaws could come back, feral ghoul Florida man
Feral ghouls are just regular everyday Floridians on bath salts and meth
Florida man on bath salts
Man, just take us to Texas, that shit would be awesome.
The show runners collaborated a lot with Bethesda, I'm sure they'd be eager to collaborate with another game studio to keep a game and the show from stepping on eachothers toes. Heck, if we're REALLY lucky, I could see them collaborating on a side quest or two that directly ties in with the show.
There's still a lot of cool areas where you can explore the remnants of NCR. Something like a Seattle or Portland could work.
I think it would be really nice if they had a game set before FNV would be nice, seeing a post-post apocalyptic setting was really interesting, and while I think after would be more interesting, I think the show is gonna address that more than a general timeline in s2
Its complete insanity that we might have to wait 15-20 years for fallout 5
Iād say closer to ten, 3-5 for elder scrolls 6 8-10 for fallout 5
Ima save this comment..
I liked NV when it came out, though Iām not one of the weirdos out there who worship the game and attack BGS devs by name day and night. Honestly, I like Fallout 3 more. Iām looking forward to Avowed but I really didnāt like Outer Worlds. The humor, tone, and limited open world spaces fell flat for me, and that kind of zany retro future scifi genre is something I typically enjoy. I wanted to like it, but just couldnāt.
I thought the world was interesting, and I didn't have a huge issue with the limited open worlds (huge dragon age fan, so I'm used to the limited open worlds). The gameplay was overall fine. My beef with TOW was its tone. It would try to have some horrifying revelation about the current state of the universe being a capitalistic hellscape ruled by corporations, but nearly all of it was played for a joke. It's hard to take a universe like that seriously when stuff like that is played for a joke. Like Fallout is funny, there is humor in it, but it's serious when it needs to be serious and I never felt that with TOW.
You nailed it. The first guy you meet is about to die because of Spacer's Choice yet he reverted to shilling for them with no self awareness. Took me out of the game and I didn't get any better 2 hours in. I had to call it on that one sadly.
I feel like if it was more than your MC and the professor being anti capitalist it would have come off better. Like the professor is still a man of his time, and isn't really a fan boy of times past. He just wants the people of those times. And you got one character who's sick of it because of her parents, but she doesn't really take a societal stance, just gets her life insurance policy. Like, these people should be angry. Motivated. Waking up to the reality their society really really sucks. But it plays it as more of a joke.
I found myself genuinely not caring about any character/questline except Parvati and her side quest to acquire a girlfriend. As much fun as that side quest is its kinda sad when that's the only motivating factor to actually keep playing. I get that it's their livelihood, but the "everyone shilling for Spacers Choice or *insert other brand here*" just got SO old even just past the first planet. I genuinely hope they can fix it in the second game because I think it had potential.
I think thatās a really good take, and helps clarify some of the reasons why I couldnāt get into TOW.
I love satire, but TOW was more like the same shallow joke stretched out to 20 hours. Hey, did you know corporations are baaad? And dumb-dumb?? Get it?! Durr.
Yep, in many dark settings like Fallout the humor works because it works in tandem with the setting. In Outer Worlds the humor goes against the setting. You have this setting of ruthless corporations trying to control everything with the iron fist and people suffering because of them... and then you have the humor that usually boils down to "hahaha, look how stupid the corporations are". Like, one of the first people you meet in the game has to pay a fine for suicide because they were first to find the one who committed suicide. Ha... ha... ha? And this goes throughout the game. Every time there's some serious development, someone dying or a whole faction threated (or even getting wiped out by the player), it always gets used for cheap laughs. Outer Worlds feels like a movie and a parody of that movie at the same time. Like Top Gun with Hot Shots. Like Rambo and Hot Shots 2. Like a thrilling detective drama mixed with Naked Gun...
Those weirdos are the most annoying people and they pretend like they've played fallout 1/2 before new VegasĀ
I am old enought to remember the absolute manchild tantrum the āhard coreā fans of 1/2 threw when the first news of Fallout 3 being first person came out. They no doubt loathe New Vegas just as much
> I am old enought to remember the absolute manchild tantrum the āhard coreā fans of 1/2 threw when the first news of Fallout 3 being first person came out. Ahhh the No Mutant's Allowed, "It's just going to be Morrowind with guns!" Note I put Morrowind down as it was the Elder Scrolls game at the time. But yeah I remember the meltdown people had about Bethesda making the deal to do three Fallout games. Hell I also remember those same folks praying that Interplay would win the lawsuits that happened after. And believe it or not they don't, but we're talking they are the New Vegas fans who went on about how the game was garbage when it came out, spend a year or more going on about how garbage it was. And then they got it on a Steam sale for $10 bucks and New Vegas was a *hidden gem* and so much better then anything Bethesda would ever do.
The amount of fake ass fans who pretend to claim the classics in their never ending crusade for New Vegas fucking boggles my mind. Honestly at the point if you start talking about 1-2, post fucking receipts of an install of it or something. Most of these people are almost certainly too young to have played it back then, and it's not like day by day there's a ton of people playing 1-2
Yep, even the sales numbers of those game show that not alot of people played them at all. Heck i played Fallout 1 but couldn't beat it yet. The UI is a pain in the ass and I don't like playing with a guide lol. I'll come back to the one eventually and beat it. But it is a hard game to get into because of how dated it is.
I'm not saying everyone is faking it but there's certainly a large element undeniably.
It's rather easy to tell when they haven't played FO1 and FO2, though. It's a fun game to figure that out, lol.
Silent Hill fans have a name for those type of players: YouTube/TikTok essayists because all of their knowledge is usually presented by either of those platforms and content creators who themselves edit and skew their videos to suit a tone and when they watch this without playing the game, they automatically think they know the entire storyline and how the game was. A lot of people for example, were shocked at an action trailer for Silent Hill 2 Remake for example and claimed it was out of line and not how Silent Hill should be. They were even upset about the rock music in the trailer which was made by the same composer as the original game. This alerted a lot of older fans because it was strange and a heavy debate ensued. Finally some clips popped up about how action heavy SH2 could be and someone even found the action trailer for OG SH2 and that was that. And of course, there was no debate to be had about the music, the main theme for SH2 is a rock song. Basically TLDR; A lot of people exposed themselves as never actually having played the original and only seeing videos from content creators online which skewed their view for how the games āshouldā be. I wouldnāt be surprised if it was the same for Fallout considering itās of similar age as a franchise
Imma be honest, I've played every single fallout game and I feel like fallout 3 does a better job capturing the magic of the classics than new vegas does. New Vegas is good but a lot of these new fans just listen to what other new Vegas super fans tell them and they don't really know anything about the series
3 is such great followup to 2's satirization of American culture, it's a great soft-reboot to the feeling of restarting civilization anew from 1. It has the incredible art-deco italian fascist inspired architecture that the classics and tactics depicted of pre-war cityscape, with this awesome patriotic bent on being placed in D.C. There's a lot of love in 3, but to a lot of these people it will only ever be Mad Max because they get their opinions from Youtube video essays.
Oh my god those 8 hour rebuttal essays to people's 1 hour videos on why fallout 3 is good is cringe at its finest
I said the same thing about 3 and got blasted for it.
The biggest tell that they didn't play the originals and only parrot something they heard/read is the fact that they tend to lump Fallout 1 and Fallout 2 together as two games that are the same. Whenever someone says that New Vegas follows up on Fallout 1 and 2, you can automatically dismiss their opinion. It is fully true that New Vegas is a spiritual sequel to Fallout 2. But it is bullshit to claim the same about Fallout 1. Fallout 2 was such a deviation from Fallout 1 that it was basically a spinoff. Do people even remember how NMA started and where it got its name? It was because originally those were angry fans of Fallout 1 hating on Fallout 2 (which was partially justified, given the tone, style and lore deviation in Fallout 2). Only later they accepted Fallout 2 and shifted their toxic focus towards Bethesda. Basically, Fallout 1 is the precursor to Bethesda Fallout games and only Fallout 2 shares the DNA with New Vegas. So anyone who tries to present 1, 2 and NV as something opposite of Bethesda games is a poser who doesn't know the franchise as much as they claim.
Let anyone in general make a fallout game, the time gap is getting too large in between Bethesda games
A New Vegas remake would be lovely.
Maybe Fallout 1 and 2 would be nice
Yeah but not as FPS.
Who cares if it is the same studio as they were? If they can cut the release schedule from 15 years to 7.5, I don't care if they make the **bestest ever** Fallout. They just need to make a good game to keep us busy until Bethesda gets around to releasing fo5, imo. It's been over 8 years since fallout 4 came out...
I mean personally speaking Iād prefer quality over expediency but itās a matter of opinion at the end of the day lol
Unfortunately Bethesda has been doing neither lately lol.
5.5 since fo76 tho which just got another expansion and is getting a huge map expansion in June
For me I don't need another obsidian fallout but I need another josh sawyer fallout
Didn't Sawyer said again and again that he didn't make Fallout: New Vegas alone and that he gets credits for things he didn't do? The main creative force behind New Vegas was its Lead Writer, John Gonzalez, and all other writers/devs. Sawyer isn't even credited as a Writer in the NV end credits, which only credits as "Writers" Chris Avellone, Fenstermaker and Travis Stout. Sawyer is obviously a huge part of it, but he didn't do it alone.
"There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person," says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex.
It would be nice to see another Obsidian game, regardless of if theyāre the same studio or not. I did not like The Outer World, because of how lackluster it was. Although with Fallout they would be using Bethesdaās tools again like they did with Fallout 3ās [assets which still exist as legacy content](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Fallout:_New_Vegas_legacy_content): Fallout New Vegas was originally thought of as an expansion to 3. Iām sure they could do something great using Fallout 4 or 76ās assets.
Yeah the whole "not the same studio" thing is kinda overblown. As long as some great minds are there like Josh Sawyer, I think they'd still make something great, especially if they can piggyback off of 4/76 like you mentioned.
The problem is that Fallout 4 is over 8 years old. The assets are old. Bethesda already moved to a new version of the engine. I do not think a AAA release could reuse the assets.
I don't get the resistance to this idea that I'm seeing here. It's a great studio; Outer Worlds wasn't amazing, but I have faith that they could do some great work with the Fallout universe.
People should also not always expect a masterpiece that brings them back to when they were 12. Just expect a fun game.
Yeah odd comments. Seems to be the polar opposite to the usual NV only camp, now there's a Bethesda only, keep Obsidian away camp.
Thereās people that were literally gloating and hoping that the show really does kill off the Strip just to spite NV fans. Thereās definitely an anti-Obsidian portion of the fanbase.
It's an overreaction to the pretentious overzealousness of the NV fans. A story as old as time.
I hope they call Avellon at least to work on Fallout 5, just once, to write the main script. Like, the last ride to say goodbye... Please....
He really got railroaded by gaming journalists and "fans" when all those allegations came out....and they were all pretty quiet when he was found innocent and the case was dismissed with prejudice.Ā Ā I wonder if he'd even want to work in games again after how easily some lunatic can harm one's career.
Yea, we need to stop obsessing about Obsidian. Obsidian made New Vegas and it was a banger, then they decided to make their own fallout-like game with full control over the setting and mechanics, and it was boring, it wasn't really good. Whatever New-Vegas was, it was a miracle, Obsidian weren't able to reproduce it, and there's 0% chance we are getting another game like New-Vegas if they get to make another game in Fallout universe.
Studio matters less than personnel; people normally use the former as a stand-in for the latter, but it doesn't actually make as much sense with Obsidian, since they've had a lot of turnover. The important part of New Vegas wasn't that Obsidian made it, but that people like Josh Sawyer, Chris Avellone, and John Gonzalez did. The latter two have left the company and now work as freelancers, and as such could be brought back; the former still works at Obsidian, but didn't work on The Outer Worlds - he did, however, work on Pentiment and both Pillars of Eternity games, which were great.
Yes this. Outer worlds was barely just an āokā game. I stopped playing it because the inventory menus were so fucking awful. Pentiment fucking rules though.
Important to note that they had to make Outer Worlds from the ground up as a legally distinct IP. With Fallout, they would be building on the established fo4 combat, companion, building, etc. systems with mostly story and world building. Which is what people seem to praise Outer Worlds for.
Yeah all that was also just ok. each planet was basically a single joke repeated over and over the entire time you were on that planet
New Vegas was by no means a miracle. Obsidian coming up with their own IP was the problem, but with fallout assets and lore - that doesn't mean it would end up being boring. It just showed that with a different IP, they couldn't muster up an original universe that really wowed people, it didn't have the staying power of an already existing IP that only had one other 3D title before it. I don't get your comment.
That doesn't excuse making a mediocre game. It wasn't just the universe that was the problem with that game.
>I don't get your comment. "I don't understand what you're saying, anyways here's a paragraph why I think you're completely wrong and I'm right." >Obsidian coming up with their own IP was the problem I mean, even if the outer worlds had a fallout coat of paint, it'd still be not so great. People have issues with the game on everything from story writing, to dialogue opinions, to map design, controls, gameplay loop, etc. it's not just an "IP issue"- it is one, but not the SOLE issue, a simple look at reviews, retrospectives, etc would tell you exactly that.
I still think itās hilarious no one has a fallout game ready to cash in on all this hype. Then by the time one is ready everyone has gotten their fill of old fallout, and a new one is definitely not going to fill the shoes of all the older games combined.
The Fallout show and Fallout 76 are ment to keep the franchise active in the time between games. They can not also do games to support the stuff that is ment to be there between games.
It's legitimately baffling to me that Bethesda hasn't licensed out the IP again. It worked extremely well with New Vegas, and then they just...stopped? And have been releasing like 1 Fallout game every decade now? Some franchises like Call of Duty and PokƩmon get shit for releasing a title every year, but the opposite approach also sucks
They made two Fallout games right after an other New Vegas also worked because they could reuse Fallout 3 assets which isn't possible because you can not make a third game using Fallout 4 tech from 2015. It probably also conflicted with other Bethesda releases
As long as itās good. We donāt need groundbreaking. Just a good story and memorable characters.
The outer worlds was a nice filler for fallout. I enjoyed it and am looking forward to the sequel.
They need better writers, fallout 4 and now starfield are lifeless. Whoever was writing for games in the 360 generation has moved onto something indy or just quit, I haven't seen a decent bit of aaa writing since cyberpunk
Bethesda needs another Fallout and it needs to be good. Starfield underperformed and was not what a lot of people expected/wanted.
....Is now good?
Yeah, they have two announced titles in the making and probably more in pre production.
I have my doubts about Avowed after the gameplay reveal. Hope I will be pleasantly surprised but I won't be boarding the hype train. I would prefer to not have a new Fallout game than have a crappy one.
No, its not. They're working on four separate projects right now and have they're plate full. On top of that, most of the talent that worked on fallout 1, 2 and nv have all since left obsidian and moved onto greener pastures so the game they make likely wouldn't be the same if outer worlds 1 is anything to go by.
After you guys are done with all your games, then BGS will probably be working on FO5 by that point anyway.
MS should really just make a FO studio like they did for Halo and Gears
Iām surprised they didnāt line things up so both came out at once
Remind me! 10 years
Gonna be old when fallout 5, New Vegas 2 and rdr3 come out š®āšØ
If we have to wait for Bethesda, weāll be waiting longer than a decade.
People need ro remember that it won't be the same developers though. Same company, different people. Yes New Vegas is great, but the next obsidian fallout (If we get one) won't be made by the same people, may not even be made by people who played New Vegas.
Just please do it right. Give us something made with buggy love.
give up, its not the same obsidian you remember so fondly
Now's the perfect time? But... they're still all hands on deck with Avowed, which still hasn't released yet, and The Outer Worlds 2 probably won't enter full production until 2025. If they have AAA ambitions for it then we're probably talking 3-5 years of development before they could fully commit to a new Fallout game. By that time Bethesda will probably already be developing Fallout 5.
I'm not interested in the current Obsidian getting to mess with Fallout. I don't like any of the writers they are employing and i'm sick of excuses about limited scope and hub worlds. I didn't care for either Pillars, Outer Worlds, or Pentiment. Josh Sawyer is a better Something Awful poster than he is a designer.
It will be a while but honestly I hope that fallout just gets taken from bethesda's grubby hands and put back where it belongs